The Simulation Game of Life: Depression, Empath Awakening & the M.I.R.R.O.R Method with Ketty Lollia

What if the narcissist who hurt you needed something from you just as much as you were pulled toward them, and understanding why changes everything about how you heal?

In this episode, Heather Zimmerman sits down with Ketty Lollia, founder of Methode 4 Life and creator of the M.I.R.R.O.R framework, for a conversation that moves from suicidal depression to a fully embodied understanding of life as a conscious game.

Ketty shares:

Her years as a professional dancer and choreographer in Paris, and the youth association she ran for a decade before everything changed

Losing herself after becoming a mother, and the depression that hit hard after COVID, including a period where she didn't want to keep living

The single question she asked God that opened the door to her actual healing journey

Three years on the road, from Spain to Egypt to her family's home island in Guadeloupe, healing ancestral trauma tied to slavery

Why she stopped blaming the narcissists in her life and started asking what she was offering them that kept the pattern going

The five stages she teaches people moving through healing: victim, wholeness, oneness, non-duality, and what she calls the lila state

Why so many people get stuck in a spiritual ego loop the moment they learn the language of consciousness, and how mirror-based therapy cuts through it

Her school, Methode 4 Life, and the Train Your Superpower training built specifically for empaths

From depression and suicidal attempts to an embodied understanding that life is a conscious simulation, Ketty Lollia's way out wasn't theoretical. She lived it, tested it, walked her healing journey alone through it and built Methode 4 Life and the M.I.R.R.O.R framework from that which survived the testing. As a former dancer specializing in the connection of the BODY (science of movement), MIND (NLP therapy, spiritual life coaching) and SOUL (inner child work, manifestation principles), she now guides people across the world to meet themselves and their inner child, so they stop being lived by their story and start playing the Simulation Game of Life in full awareness.

Find Ketty Lollia:

YouTube: youtube.com/@gameoflifemethode

Facebook: Method for Life / Ketty Lollia

Facebook Group: Movement of Multidimensional Awareness and Consciousness

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Welcome to Everything You Need to Know About the Ascension of Humanity, the podcast where ancient wisdom meets modern science and spiritual evolution gets real. I'm Heather, an energy healer, channel, and spiritual coach with Divine Ascension Company. Each week, we're diving deep into the mysteries of human consciousness, spiritual awakening, and the profound transformation happening within us and around us. But here's the thing: we're not doing this with our heads in the clouds. We're bringing neuroscience, psychology, quantum physics, and cutting-edge research to the table alongside meditation, energy work, and timeless spiritual teachings. Because the truth is, the ascension of humanity isn't some far-off cosmic event. It's happening right now in the choices we make, the awareness we cultivate, and the healing we do within ourselves. Whether you're curious about how mindfulness literally rewires your brain, why shadow work is backed by depth of psychology, or what coherence between your heart and mind actually means scientifically you're in the right place. We'll explore practices like breath work, meditation, and emotional alchemy, not as abstract concepts, but as tangible tools grounded in both spiritual wisdom and scientific understanding. And here's where it gets even better. In our bonus episodes, you'll hear from real people sharing real stories. These are the warriors, the healers, the everyday seekers who've walked through their own darkness and found their light. They'll share their breakthroughs, their struggles, and the resources that actually help them along the way. Because personal growth isn't a solo journey, and you deserve to know you're not alone. So whether you're just beginning to question the nature of reality, or you're deep in your spiritual practice, this podcast is your companion on the path. It's time to expand, to awaken, and to rise together.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Let's begin.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Today's guest survived a depression so severe it brought her to the edge of ending her life, and came out the other side having built an entire framework for understanding why any of it happened in the first place. Keddy is a former professional dancer, trauma-based therapist, and NLP practitioner who spent three years on a healing journey that took her from Spain to Egypt to her family's home island in the Caribbean, healing generational trauma she didn't even know she was carrying until she went looking. Out of that journey, she built Method for Life and the Mirror Framework, a system for understanding the body, the mind, and the soul together instead of separately. Ketty and I get into something I think a lot of empaths need to hear directly. The uncomfortable truth that the narcissists you keep attracting aren't just happening to you. We talk about the actual stages people move through on the way from victim to wholeness to oneness. Why so many spiritual people get stuck in a loop the moment their ego finds the language of consciousness, and what it actually takes to embody a teaching instead of just repeating it. This one goes deep fast.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

Her name is Ketty, and I'm really excited to share her story with you guys and you know hear more about her. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, I'm great. I'm great, thank you. I'm really happy to be here and to be able to share my story with you.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Yes, I'm excited about this. So thank you so much for being here. Why don't you get us started and tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

So, well, who I am. My name is Katie Lolia, and uh um I am creating now a school. The school, the name of the school is Method for Life. And what I do is, in fact, I was I have been a life coach and an LP therapist, a trauma-based therapist. Then uh I I have also helped people with their body. I learned the science of language of movement because I was a professional dancer, and and then I had my own healing journey, and from that, from all those experiences, I decided to create a school to help people remember who they are. So the school is method for life, and that's what that's what I do. And inside of it, I am working as a mirror-based therapist, which is in fact a new kind of therapy with a lot of different therapy inside and focus especially on play, role play, and uh and through this, I uh guide people to come back to themselves because we are good people. Yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Wow, that's amazing. So, first before we get started, before I jump into questions here, where are you from? Because I absolutely adore your accent.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Oh, thank you, thank you. So I was born in Paris. My family comes from uh Guadeloupe, which is a French island in the Caribbean Sea. And then I lived, well, I lived in Paris for 30 years, so I'm I'm French. That's the accent that you hear. Then I lived also for uh many years in the Netherlands, and uh now I'm living in Spain. So I feel I speak all the languages, including English.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yes, I love it. So tell me a little bit more about how you got started with what you do, because you you mentioned being a dancer and and your own healing journey. So, how did you get started with you know helping people with their bodies and and their own healing process?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, I would say that maybe it began even before I was aware of it. It was when I was a dancer, for example, I was in um in a company, professional company, and they would show us some movements, and then we had to do them. But uh, you know, when you are at a professional level, it's just like this is what you need to do, and then you just need to learn it. They don't explain you how to do it with the body. So for me, it was already well, if one day I explain I want to bring something to someone else, I will have to be able to explain him or her how it works. Right. Because otherwise you just stay a little bit lost and you can't hurt yourself, which I did. Ah, yes. That's how it began, I would say. And uh then I became I was a professional dancer. From there I became a dance teacher and then a choreograph, then I created an association for the youth in difficult places in uh in Paris and outside of Paris, especially. And that I did it for 10 years, so it was giving dance lessons, uh sing lesson, write lessons to the youth, and telling them you have a purpose in life and just go inside and find who you are, and uh it doesn't matter what the people say about you, you just need to trust yourself. That's amazing. Yeah, well, I I just did it because I was a dancer, I received so much, and I was like, I need to to pay it forward to give more to give back to the society because I received. So it was really at that moment to have something like I really need to give back.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So then then I moved to the Netherlands, I was a mother, and there I lost myself, I would say. So I I was living from my passion, which was dancing, which was transmitting. And then when I moved there, I I lost all that. And I didn't really realize at that moment that I would lose something. It's only when you are in life and you experience life and you continue, and the years continue, then you notice something and you don't know what it is. And that's my healing journey who brought me back, I would say. But at that moment, uh well, I had good years and I had bad years, I would say. And just after COVID, I was hit with with a depression. So just before, yeah, just before the depression, I was a life coach and an alpha therapist helping people coming back from burnout, depression. And then when I when the depression hit me, I was like, oh wow, I can't say that I help people, but I still can't fall into that. So at that moment, this depression was like I wanted also to just finish with life because I didn't understand the people around me. The people around me didn't understand me. I loved I lost a lot of friends, uh, family, lots of people. So I was like, why am I even here leaving? And finally I was helped by uh by a team, and that and the team told me, you know, you can't do it, we can't help you do it, or you can't decide uh you don't want to do it anymore. But if you choose to do it, then we are here to help you. So they helped me, I would say, for yeah, seven, eight months uh really intensive. And then at the end of the time, when I came back, I well, I believed in God because I was, yeah, my family uh believed in God, so it was just in my in my life, and I never doubted. But then at that moment I asked him, why do you keep me here? If if I have to continue, then you need to explain me why I am here and and use me for whatever you want me to do because I don't understand why I'm here. Right. So that's when my healing journey begins.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Yeah. It's amazing how asking just that one question, because I hear this a lot, using different words, but the same concept, like why am I here? What is my purpose? Like, what I know that there's something greater than just, you know, depression or you know, these life experiences that we go through, especially the ones that kind of tear us down a little bit. So just asking that simple question, like, show me what I'm here for, what am I supposed to be doing with my life, really opens doorways for these opportunities to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

So, but well, when I when my healing journey began, I can tell you that asking such a question, you don't realize in fact that what you are manifesting is the answer. So, and to come to the answer, you need to fall down really hard. So it means that even through my depression, all the moments of my healing journey were yeah, really hard. And I was really happy at that time, I would say that I already had my depression because I would have falled back, maybe, you know, because it's really hard. But at the same time, I had something like if I ever want to help people again, I need to know how to not fall back in a depression, because this depression is trying to tell me something and I don't know what it is. And I had a healing journey for three years where I left my place, I took my car and I began to go to Spain, then from there I went to Egypt, to different places, I went back to my country to heal my to my island to heal my ancestral trauma, because what I didn't realize also is that I had that trauma, that I really the slavery black trauma, I would say. And and then discovering that I wrote a book, so that book is is needs to come out. I first want to be finished with the school, and that's what uh I'm doing now. And it was really impressive to realize how I had created my own reality. Because at a point, I think one year on my healing journey, I had kind of connection with above, and uh and then suddenly I went on YouTube and I saw a video, it was Florence Covell explaining that this life was a game, and I was really shocked at that moment. I thought, huh? I am suffering, and you tell me it's a game. It's how can it be? But then from that moment I began to observe, observe myself in situation, understanding what I was doing, how I was triggering people. I am an empath and I was attracting a lot of narcissists and of course it's easy to say, yeah, the narcissist is bad, the narcissist is bad. I did that too. But I realized that was not the whole story. There was more because why they were coming to me is because I was giving them something that they wanted. And if I was not giving it, then they wouldn't come, or the interaction would be different. So that was a big part also of my uh healing. I wanted to understand because I was reading online all the bad things about narcissist people, and I didn't believe it. I had something like there is something more, and what I even discovered at that moment is that I was the one triggering them to manipulate me, which is really crazy. It took me really some time to accept that, even. Yeah. But to realize that they didn't do anything than being themselves, and then being in their own energy, and then I was attracted to their own energy, they were attracted to mine, and then I asked them unconsciously to manipulate me. That's so difficult to accept. But when I when I will when I succeeded in accepting all of that, that's when the game became clearer and clearer and clearer and clearer. And that was, and I would say now I create the school because I saw now clearly, okay, this is why we are on Earth. We are here to have a life experience. We are soul, a soul in a body, having a life experience with a mind. The mind has been programmed so we are able to play the game unconsciously, and the more we come back to consciousness through awareness, the more we are able to see that we are in fact creating the world that we live in, the traumas that we experience, the bad situation that we think that shouldn't happen, the bad people that say bad things, that we create all of that. That was that's crazy. But yeah, there are different worlds now since the awakening, and since people are doing their their own journey. And I realize also healing is only one part of all the possibilities that we have in the world to experience life. We have five ways of experiencing life, five different worlds. Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_04 15:53

That's amazing. So I I you think that was very well said, and I completely agree with all of that. And I I tell people, like when you are in a situation, especially the empath and narcissistic relationship, like you have to remember that the way people act or react in a situation is a reflection of them, and the way you react and act in a situation is a reflection of you. And so when you're in that sort of toxic relationship, it's very easy to place blame on the other person, but you also have to take responsibility for your part in that interaction as well. And so when you heard her that those words about the all the bad things about the narcissist, and then realizing that there was something more to it, how did you kind of realize or or accept that there that you had a part in that as well? How did you navigate through that? Because that is a really hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, yeah, and it's also, you know, the in the healing journey, there are some steps. And sometimes we come in the healing journey, like me, for example, from a depression where the depression I want to kill myself, that's the lowest energy, so I just need to climb up. And then you have people who come here from courage, you know, and still we still need to look at all emotions that we can experience, and one of them which makes that we are unable to accept that we are participating in the game of the narcissist, is because is the shame. It means that we need to say that I am the one who did that to me. It's way more uh it's uh it's easier to say it's someone else, and that's exactly that world of the matrix, you know, it's just about victim and perpetrator. There is someone who do something and someone who receives that thing, and we are always in that story of you did that to me, I did that to you, you say that to me, you say that to the other. So as long as we are in this story, it's impossible to open ourselves to the story of okay, I created that. Right. So this part needs to change first. Absolutely. Yeah. And it begins then with the shame and the gear, so you need to work on that. And when you have worked on that, so that was for me the first step uh that that wear that, then you are able to open yourself for other stories and to and to real awareness. Because sometimes you say, Yeah, I am aware, I am aware that I do that, but it's only the surface level of awareness. When we accept and we make a step, we become aware that there is something more above, and then something more above. So the first is it's you, so I am the victim, it's you. The second is walleness. I don't care. I don't care because I feel world. You can think what you want, and I don't need to go in your game, you know. And then you have the third one, that's oneness, that's oh, you did that for me. Now I see that you were trying by doing that to let me see how I abandoned myself. So thank you for doing that, because otherwise I would have never seen that I always put myself down for others. You needed to put me so down that I was able to see that I need to go up by myself and not by someone else outside of me. So thank you that you were there to show me that. That's oneness. Then you come to non-duality, then you feel you see, you think, oh, wait a minute. I have consciousness or God or universe, I created this avatar Kitty, and I created the other avatar narcissist to trigger her so that she's able to see what she's doing. So then she can change that, and when she's changed that, she still has the powers, the superpower of the empath, because she went through it. So this superpower is super strong. And what is the superpower of an empath? It's reading energy. So as long as as I believe in victim mentality, I am not able to come by this superpower because I feel you and I feel me, and I'm not aware that your energy is also in me. So I move through this energy. When I am able to put the one the oneness, then I'm able to see your energy is yours, mine is mine. Okay, but I still feel yours. When I see that I am consciousness, I know that I created all this situation to be able to see the programming that I had accepted or taken from the moment I was a child, because that was the game. My parents were there. I created my parents so they would abandon me, so they would not be nice with me, or so they wouldn't see me, so that I was able to come back from that to come back to unconditional love. So the whole path of healing journey is coming back to unconditional love. But unconditional love happens only when you love yourself. When you love yourself, it's it's like a boomerang. You love the others because you accept every part of you, you accept every part of the other. But when you are consciousness, you know that you are the other too, and then the last. Step is the Lila state, which is in fact a state where you are playing, but now you play consciously. So you are consciousness deciding to come to stay in the body and to have a life experience with manifestations and with and you don't have trauma anymore. So there are different stages possible, and it doesn't matter at what stage you stay, it just matters that you are able to enjoy it completely where you are.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Yeah. Wow, that was very well said. Amazing. And I I'm a little bit speechless right now, I'm not gonna lie, because these are things that I try to teach people as well. And it's it's a difficult journey. It's very a lot of people have a hard time getting through those middle layers, those steps, because you have to, I I feel like in general, and and I'm I I'm speaking in generalities, I know that there's a lot more to the story than this, but I feel like a lot of people, especially my clients and stuff, when they come to me, they are afraid of taking that responsibility and accepting the fact that they are the ones who created this because they they get so stuck in that victim mentality, in that, oh my God, something terrible happened to me, feel bad for me, sympathize with me, like and and that becomes their identity. And they have such a difficult time getting through that and navigating to the next steps to get to that oneness and that non-duality that you spoke about. And and when you help people through this, what do you find has been successful to help others navigate through that kind of perspective shift?

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Well, that's in fact what we do with the mirror-based therapy is, you know, one of the problems, for example, if you say to a narcissist, you are a narcissist, there is different ways of telling him that. You can't say that as judging him, or you can't say that as, oh wow, that's your superpower. You see what I mean? Yes. So the way you bring the story is already changing everything. What I do is uh in I see where the person is, in which world the person is, and which words she's using. Someone who is still in what in the in the fight of the healing, in what in one world has a different kind of words that he uses than someone who is really thriving in that story of consciousness. So I am consciousness. So we are one. So the we are one that that you see yourself as being God. The problem is when you hear this information, your ego wants to be there because it's high. So that's one of the problems of walking that past. That's why I told you at the beginning, when my depression began, I began from down and I had to go up. So I have I experienced all. But the people coming from in the middle, and they the ego take it over, then you come in a loop and you don't realize that you are in a loop because you have all the knowledge. So you are going to read the books, you are going to have conversation, you are going to have confirmation of others with likes, with someone telling you, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you are going to confirm yourself unconsciously that you are there while you are still dealing with emotions of wellness. For example, if you still feel guilt even towards your child because you didn't do that, or your or your dog because you went on vacation, or your husband because you didn't uh uh cook, this is wellness. So you cannot be one when you still deal with problems in wellness. So that's why I created the school with the visibility of this is the different levels, and if you are speaking about the level of oneness, you know, so you are me and I am you, it becomes difficult for you to evolve to evolve there because you miss some element of the oneness. So you are going to stay stuck in a loop and you are not going to see yourself, whatever the people tell you. You will have to fall on your face first to see it again. When you know, and that's what with the mirror-based based therapy we do, is we tell you what we see. This is the world that you are because you are still dealing with this, this, this, and that. This is the world that you speak about, but you are not able to embody it because it came too early in comparison to your nervous system. Your nervous system needs to be calibrated on that level. If you are in oneness and you still are triggered by someone in wellness, you cannot stay there. So that's that's the problem of what is happening now is that we have a lot of apples to offer to the people to help them. But the problem is a lot of people don't dare to be honest because that's one of the problems you need to be honest, but not really honest only to the other, but also to yourself. If you attract the other in your field, it's because you also have something to see about yourself. The more you do that, the more the people are just going to watch and learn. But we want to learn to the people to do, do, do, instead of telling them, This is what I do, this is how it feels, this is my experience. Experience speaks the most than the knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

That's how I check, in fact. So when some people now, with all the experience that I had, when some people tell me something, I feel in my body, is it coherent or not? Or not. I don't need to judge the person, I just need to judge from me, is it coherent what this person says? Is it coherent with his state? Someone who tells me that he is in that he that he sees that we are that he is God, I accept. I don't mind. But for him, he needs to know if he is really there or if it is his ego who put him there. Right. Because if it's the ego, he's going to continue to stay in the loop. And it's a problem for nobody to stay in a loop. I mean, I I don't mind that you that someone stay in his loop. I mind when he doesn't want to stay in it.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Right. Absolutely. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

So why don't you tell us a little bit more about the things that you're working on and you know your website and everything, so people can get a hold of you if they want to take advantage of your program.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah. So, well, Method for Life to School, it's on uh Facebook, so the people can look for it in there. They can uh also connect with me, send message. My name is Kitty Lolia. They can find me also on Facebook and on Instagram and thread. I am not on LinkedIn purposefully. Then we with for the school, what we did first is we explained the I would say the instructions manual. So what is victim mentality? Why is victim victimhood? How what is comfort zone in the game? So you take this, what I explained to you now, that's why I came. I call that the simulation game of life. It's because unconsciousness experiences itself through us. So there we explain how this how we programmed that so that we were able to do that, how we did that with the parents, for example, how which kind of trauma they are, because we have three different levels of traumas, and lots of people begin at the middle, but they don't solve the first trauma, so they stay stuck also. So that's what we explained on that on a YouTube channel, and that's that's the name is the game of life, the game of free will of method for life. Then we have a group in on Facebook where the group is movement of multi-dimensional awareness and consciousness. There we we share just wisdom and asking questions. They can share also their own questions. So it's about making it a little bit more dynamic because on YouTube we just explain, but the people can come and ask questions too. And we are creating events, so we have online events and live events we did in UK and in Spain till now. We we have also one training which called which is called Train Your Superpower. And it's about just like I said, for example, the empath has a superpower, but as long as the traumas are above, he's not able to see and feel that what is his and what is the other. So train the intuition uh for in the in that uh training, because the intuition we believe that it is the gut feeling, but the gut feeling is connected to the brain, the brain is the mind, the mind is the ego, so that's not the intuition and the soul, that's just a pattern recognition which is in the nervous system. So that's we also explain that in the in the training, and we have events also where we invite people, you know, QA, where you can come and ask your question if you deal with that. We have also trim a membership, so it depends on what you want to do with us, then you can take the membership, one of the three. And and we have a lot of guides also available with workbooks. So depending on the level where you are, where you think that you are, we have test quiz that you can fill in, and then you can make the test, and you know about where you are, and then from where you are, we ask you questions about before to see what is integrated and what is not, because what is not, you need to solve it to continue. So we we have that also to help the people to make the steps, and that is all about, in fact, opening the school and saying to the people, yeah, if you want to remember who you who you are, come to us, we show you the map, and then you can just continue, and we and we have a team of people that can help you continue. Awesome, but we want you to do the step. We cannot do it for you because the answers are within you. Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Awesome. Well, I'll make sure all the links and everything that you'd like to share get put in the description so people will be able to find you. And I I personally would love to join your Facebook group. I might take advantage of some of those links myself.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

So that's that would be really amazing to have you because the more people which are busy with their own, you know, the helpers, for example, we have a partnership in the in the in the school and a library. So it means that we don't want, I don't believe that I was here to do it alone. I believe that I was here to do it with everyone. You know, I see already for a really long time the web, a web of light. And you know, the the the spider web. So each point of the spider of the web is one person. I can never be a whole spider alone. So in the school, we need pillars, we need weavers, you know. So yeah, we welcome everyone, and it is about, in fact, we have the training, the people can do the training or don't do the training, that's their uh choice. But you could by helping others when you organize an event, it it fits because it means that consciousness, the one which are going to go to your event, consciousness wanted them there. Point.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

So I I look forward to it, and we'll we'll have to talk more about that after the show. So thank you so much for being here today and and sharing all of your lovely insight with us. It was an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much, Isa. I really loved uh to be here and to be able to speak with you and to tell my story, and I hope to be able to help a lot of people also to see more clearly their own journey.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

If you're ready to stop surviving the ascension and start actually moving through it with a map, the self-spirit method was built for exactly where you are. And if you want a little taste of what that might look like, my book, Becoming Divine, is now available. It's the foundation, the framework, and the permission slip all in one place. Find the program and the link to purchase the book at DivineAscensionco.com. You were never meant to figure this out alone. I'm here. Let's do this together.