S3 | Ep.13 Believing God's Word Through Fear, Loss & Identity with Kathleen Johnson

What does it actually mean to believe God's word — not just know it, but truly trust it in the middle of your hardest seasons? In this rich conversation, Brenda sits down with Kathleen Johnson, the dynamic Christian speaker, author, and teacher known as Scripture Girl, to unpack what it looks like to move from fear and self-reliance into Spirit-led faith. Kathleen opens up about navigating an unwanted divorce, years of paralyzying fear, and how a single wake-up call sent her running to God's Word in a way that changed everything.

Whether you're stuck in fear, wrestling with your identity in Christ, or longing to truly believe what you say you believe — this episode is packed with practical tools and timeless truth to help you pick up your next memorial stone.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• Why you can't be in a state of fear and faith at the same time — and what to do when fear takes over
• How Kathleen went from a spiritually devastated divorce to becoming Scripture Girl — and what the turning point looked like
• The difference between mental assent and truly believing God's word (and why your actions give you away)
• What it means to be unequally yoked — and the practical wisdom Kathleen offers for those in that situation
• The "Think It, See It, Say It" method for internalizing scripture and renewing your mind
• What Kingdom Authority means for believers — and why so many of us are getting robbed without knowing it
• How to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit without white-knuckling your faith
• A simple, powerful practice using your own voice to memorize and meditate on scripture

Scriptures Mentioned:

• Isaiah 26:3 
• John 8:31–32 
• Romans 12:2 
• Romans 8:6 
• Romans 8:11 
• Ephesians 3:19 
• Psalm 23:1 
• Luke 10:19 
• Philippians 4:7 
• Galatians 5:16 
• 1 Corinthians 6:19–20 
• John 15:5 
• John 10:27 
• Matthew 11:28 

Connect with Kathleen Johnson:

🌐 Websites: kathleenjohnsonministries.com & scripturegirl.com

📚 Books: Scripture Girl, Healed to Heal, Kingdom Authority, Something to Forgive, Spirit Prayer

🎙️ Podcast: Healed to Heal Podcast

 
💻  Facebook | Instagram | YouTube 

About Kathleen Johnson: Kathleen Johnson, widely known as Scripture Girl, is a dynamic Christian speaker, author, and teacher with a passion for helping believers experience the transformative power of God's Word. After navigating seasons of chronic pain, addiction, and paralyzing fear, Kathleen discovered the life-changing impact of Scripture memory, meditation, fasting, and prayer. These disciplines ignited a chain reaction of freedom, healing, and intimacy with God — and awakened a mission to help others experience the same. She is the author of Scripture Girl, Healed to Heal, Kingdom Authority, Something to Forgive, and Spirit Prayer, and hosts both the Healed to Heal and Scripture Girl podcasts. Kathleen lives in Franklin, Tennessee with her husband and family, joyfully pursuing her calling to help others walk in the fullness of Christ.

About Brenda Savanhu: Brenda Savanhu is the author of Memorial Stones, a writer coach, and the host of Remember God — a podcast for followers of Jesus who are in difficult seasons and find themselves wanting to take control instead of trusting God. Each episode helps listeners remember the places where God has shown up in the past, giving them the tools and strength to navigate today's challenges.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The reason that God wants us to yield to the spirit so that the spirit can rule is because we're designed for the spirit to rule. If the spirit is ruling, we do not get gratify the desires of the sinful nature. If the spirit is ruling, it's a living water. It's when the spirit is not ruling and the flesh is ruling that this other stuff is happening. So number one is awareness, like the flesh is on the throne. That's why this is happening. And number two is realizing that God has given us a way to overcome that, to crucify the flesh. Which thing are you feeding? Are you feeding the flesh or are you feeding the spirit? If I'm feeding the spirit, what happens is my spirit, my newborn spirit, gets stronger, and I'm in alliance with the Holy Spirit. And so this the spirit is ruling, and the other stuff is like kicking the bullies off the street.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Welcome to Remember God, a podcast where we practice remembering God in the midst of trials. Hi, I'm Brenda, and I help followers of Jesus recall God's miracles to successfully navigate current challenges. Welcome to Remember God, a podcast to practice remembering God in the midst of trials. If you're a follower of Jesus who's in a difficult season and finds yourself wanting to take control of the situation, instead of trusting God, this is the place for you. This is where we will help you remember the places where God has shown up in the past, giving you the tools and strength to navigate through today's challenges. I'm Brenda Savannu, author of Memorial Stones, writer coach, and your companion on the journey of remembering what God has done. Friends, today I am so excited to welcome our guest on the show today, Kathleen Johnson. Kathleen is a dynamic Christian speaker. She is a teacher and author of Scripture Girl. Um she is affectionately known as Scripture Girl. Kathleen has also authored several books: Healed to Heal, Kingdom Authority, and she hosts a podcast called Healed to Heal and Scripture Girl Podcasts. Kathleen is passionate about helping believers experience a transformative power of God's word and step into the fullness of their inheritance in Christ. And just like a quick caveat, Kathleen, I listened to one of your episodes where you were talking about learning how to actually believe God's word. And so I absolutely love that. One of Kathleen's book, Heal to Heal, I love that title because she was healed. And so she is helping heal others through what she's learned. Kathleen's mission is to inspire you, to raise you up, and to possess the wonderful things that God has in store for you. Welcome to the podcast, Kathleen. I'm so happy you're here.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

How exciting! And what a wonderful introduction. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to this. I love your show. I love the concept of it. It's so important. And so this is just a huge honor. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

I'm so glad you're here. So tell me real quick, what do you love about the show?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Well, I love that, you know, we're told to, when we are thinking about the things that God has done, we cannot at the very same second be thinking about all our troubles and our struggles. And that's our problem. We're told to fix our eyes on the Lord. We're told to set our mind on things above. And when we do that, when we actually have those memorial stones, each one of those is a reminder to us. Great is thy faithfulness that He's going to be there for me again, just like He was before. And I really think that this is something that I'm sure you talk about. It's a practice, it's a habit, it's something you have to do on purpose, intentionally. It's not something that comes naturally to us, right? But every time you remind people of this, hopefully it helps them see that by doing that, they're helping themselves walk with the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah, that's so good. I love what you said that when you think about the places where God has shown up, when you think about the memorial stones, you stop thinking about your present troubles.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah. Well, it's like you can't be in a state of fear and faith at the same time. And that's one of the things I try to remind myself is that you're every minute of every day, you're in one of those states. You know, and it's like when you talk about the Israelites always going back to self-reliance, I'm either being self-reliant, I'm either separate or I'm connected. And if I'm connected, I can't, I don't feel fear there because I know that I'm connected to the to the living God, the source, you know, the one who created the worlds. You know, when I know that, I'm not gonna feel afraid. It's when I have that disconnect, that self. It's all up to me. Boy, now I'm in trouble. Now it's fear, wrath, anger, all those things.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Right. It's all up to me. Right. That's when we start making all of the wrong decisions. We make decisions from a place of fear when we take God out of it and we start thinking we need to take care of it. We need to fix it.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah. Well, I love what you just said too, because I know a lot of people talk about, you know, do it afraid and those kind of things. And I think what they mean is don't let yourself become paralyzed by fear so that you're just stuck and you don't do anything. But I really think the word tells us something different. The word, you know, fear is there for a reason. It's there to show us something, but it's really there to have us go back, realize I'm off the vine, I need to get back, and then act when I am in a place of God reliance, you know, because if you're if I'm acting to your point, if I'm acting from a place of fear, probably not going to make the right decisions, and it's probably gonna do nothing. And I've done this before myself. You just add to that misery, you add to the anxiety. You didn't have less anxiety, you've got more now.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

So true.

unknown 5:40

Right?

SPEAKER_03 5:41

We're only a few minutes in and so much gold already. But yes, so true. So I want to start with how you got to being scripture girl, how you learned how to actually believe God's word. Because just from what I've researched on you, I think that's like a pretty significant memorial stone in your journey.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah. Well, you couldn't have said it better. I guess you could almost say that my emerging mission statement is to help others as I continue to get help from God to be transformed by the renewing of the mind so that I can have the faith to move mountains because I believe that God wants every one of and every one of us as believers to walk in the authority that he's given to us, to know that we are more than conquerors, to know that the one who is in us is greater than the one in the world, and to act that out. You know, when Jesus said, whoever holds to my teaching, they're really my disciples, then they will know the truth and the truth will set them free. The truth is already there. The truth is there. But it's only when we know it. And that word that he used, that's a Greek word gnosko, is not like, yeah, I know, I know. No, it's no, no. Like, I know, no, no, I have to know it. And so when I talk about these things, Brenda, it's like realizing that all of us have that mental knowledge that we're like, yeah, I believe that. But no, you don't. Because if you really believed that thing, you would do it because our actions follow our belief. And so when we realize and look honestly, like if I look honestly at my life, I can find places where I don't really believe. I might want to believe, I might agree with that, I might have a mental assent, but my actions show they give me away. You know, I think you can look at somebody's life, right? Have you ever heard somebody tell you, oh, I believe this or I believe that? And you look at their life and it doesn't match up. And it's not a, it's not, it's not a judgment, but it is, it is our reality that we will do, we will act based on what we actually believe. And those beliefs are affecting us at an incredible capacity, more than I think most people stop to realize.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

And so that's something that I'm very passionate about.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Yeah. So where did that start for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Well, part of it was, you know, I had a wonderful upbringing. I was very fortunate. I had a wonderful Christian family upbringing. But when I was in an unwanted divorce, when my ex was leaving and I felt like my life was sort of flipped upside down, I had this concept of what my life was supposed to look like. And so when it didn't look like that, it was in that that I realized that I had set my Christian marriage up as an idol, really. I mean, not that that's a bad thing. But if I had been more rooted and grounded in God, I wouldn't have experienced the kind of devastation at the level I did. Not to say that you're not going to experience devastation when you go through something like that, but I realized that I wasn't as rooted and grounded in God as I should have been because I was so afraid. I went through the season where I was just afraid. And that's that revelation of self-reliance, right? Like you realize, hey, if you're really rooted and grounded on God, that's it's not like that. It's like the prophet Isaiah said, trust in the Lord, for the Lord Himself is the rock eternal. If you're really rooted, if you're really on the rock, it doesn't move. And God is the only thing that doesn't move. So one of the ways that we can find out if we're really rooted and grounded as God, is if we have our trust there, we're not going to face devastation the same way that the rest of the world will when things happen to us because our security is in the right spot, right? So, but anyway, in that season, at least I knew enough. I'm like, I need to look, look to God. So it was in that season that I was started seeking God and studying and learning and growing. And, you know, I was kind of fumbling around trying to find a deeper intimacy with God. And when I did that, I realized he had already been there. He had already been looking for me. And it wasn't until that season that I really looked and recognized he was there. And so all of those things sort of became a foundation for the scripture girl and the books and all of those things that have come since then. And it's been wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

I heard in um it was what one of the interviews you did where you said um in in your first marriage, you realized that you were not equally yoked. What did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Well, I guess in one way, I mean that he did not, his faith was not important to him. He had not really been an attender of church. He wasn't from a faith background. He told me, I love that you have a strong faith. And so when I had some people kind of warn me, hey, this might be a danger zone, I was like, no, he loves everything's great. He loves this, he's gonna get baptized. But there's a reason that scripture commands us not to be unequally yoked. And it's not that there's not examples of people that can overcome something like that, because there are, but at the core, if you have hearts that have put one person that has f said, I'm gonna put God first, and the other person doesn't believe that, you're gonna have people that end up work walking in two different directions ultimately. I mean, it's not so much about saying this person's wrong or that person's wrong, but which thing are we looking at? And if I and if we're both have God at the center, if if a Christian marriage has God at the center, that's a completely different paradigm than two people that are gonna decide, I'm I'm not happy right now, you know, because if the covenant isn't the thing that's holding you together, then the only thing that's holding you together is what? Like whether I'm happy or not. I'm not happy in year two, I'm not happy in year seven. So I leave, right? I'm not thinking of it as the covenant with God at the center. Completely different way. And so I didn't listen to those things. There were a lot of contributing factors, but I wish I would pay have paid more attention to the words of scripture in that regard.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

That's food for thought. And I'm thinking of, and perhaps you can answer this for someone who is in that situation, what scriptures should they look to and what would the the practical application of them be?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Well, I think if they have already chosen to marry, like if they're in that situation, I think the apostle Paul was very clear, you know, stay in the situation you are. He, you know, he would not tell somebody just to leave the person that you're with because the unbelieving husband can be sanctified by the by the spouse. Like there's there's an element there, there's a possibility that God can work through that thing. I think that that scripture is is, you know, intended for people that have not yet become one, you know, you become one. It's a warning, like, don't be unequally oaked because of all these other things that can be the possibility. But I would say once you have made a decision to partner with somebody, you do your best before God to follow, you know, follow God and keep your oath that you made and let them be serious. And I think a lot of people give up too easily when they see the problems, they just they think, well, this is not going to work. And they don't realize that God can work all things out. Of course, He needs, He needs both parties to be involved. And there's where the big problem is. If somebody's like completely out, that's a very hard thing to overcome.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

So, how about for someone who's engaged and they're getting counsel and they're saying that they're not equally yoked with this person? What advice would you give them having gone through what you went through? What scriptures would you look back to?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

I would just, I would just tell them to remember that the word tells us that the two shall become one flesh and to think very seriously what that when the word is saying, do not be uninqualiered, it's to save us, it's to save us trouble. You know, God is not just trying to ruin your fun. He's trying to, it's like guardrails that are set there. God knows the best way that the family is meant to work because he designed it. And so it is a warning to heed. And I think it's again, you know, there may be exceptions, but the rule is simply what you have when you have two people that are not both fully committed to God. And, you know, that doesn't mean somebody that's like, I think there are different ways you can interpret that, Brenda. I think you could say that there might be a situation where one person might say they're unequally oaked, and another person might say, well, they're both followers of Jesus. And that's something that you'd have to work out before God. But I think what what the scripture is warning us against is one person that does not put God at the center of their life and the other person is putting something else because then you're gonna have have struggle. And if you don't do that, you will pay a price of some kind. Will it be divorced? Maybe it won't be divorced, but I believe that there are always consequences when we don't heed the words of scripture.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Yeah. So speaking about heeding the words of scripture, you'd mentioned that in that first marriage there was a lot of fear. Would you be open to sharing what some of that fear was and how you eventually use scripture to overcome it?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Sure. I will. Part of it was some things that were happening during the marriage. There was um, there were very destructive habits going on. I'm I'm not gonna go into a lot of details.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

No, no, no, you don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah. But I knew um, I was, you know, from one day to the next, I didn't feel secure, not only in the marriage, but for safety for him, for my kids. You know, there's a bunch of stuff going on. And I realized I was living in fear because there was just this constant stress and this kind of constant worry. So when he left, it was even more so, it was this uncertainty, you know. And the ironic thing, and I tell this story in my scripture girl testimony, is that, you know, after a while had passed and with the divorce, I had decided I was going to start dating again. I wasn't ready when I started. It wasn't the most genius idea I've ever had. But it was somebody I was just talking to on the phone that was a Christian that was dating. And he stopped me in the middle of a conversation and he said, Kathleen, don't you know that God doesn't want us to be afraid? And I remember that moment, like that moment that stood out because of course I knew that. I knew it because I had even posted that thing on on Facebook that was like 365 times the Bible says, do not be afraid. So I knew it, but I had forgotten it. And yeah, I needed to be confronted with that. Like, hey, you're not supposed to be afraid. There's got to be. So it was that night that I went and I just poured out my heart before God, Brenda, and I was like, I don't want to live like this. Father, help me, help me. And that was kind of like that surrender that helped me step by step, moment by moment, to start seeking answers in his word, to start memorizing his word, so that I could start taking my focus from the what-ifs and the scary moments and the uncertainty and the outcomes to the word says this, the word says this, the word says this. And one of the things I realized during that is that when you practice something, you get good at it. If you practice being afraid, you get really, really good at being afraid. But if you practice focusing on the perfect law that brings freedom, you get better at that. And so I would say to anybody that feels afraid, when you change your focus from one thing to something else, you may not see right away, but if you don't give up on it, you can't not have that impact you. Don't you think that's true?

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yeah. So you're what so this person who said to you, don't you know you're not supposed to be afraid? Like that was a pivotal moment for you. It wasn't. And then yeah. And then you just started diving into scripture and saying, This is not how I want to live my life. I don't want to be afraid. I want to have my eyes fixed on the right thing, which is Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, that was really it. I mean, I never even spoke to that guy again. He wasn't somebody that was really part of my life, but he was the wake-up call that I needed because even if I knew at some level that I had been fearful, the way that that played out was the thing that woke me up, that made me realize I've got to get help from God. And I just knew I was drowning. I knew I needed help. And so I knew I was doing the best thing I could think of was to give God more time. And even in those early times, Brenda, wasn't even like I love scripture and I love God's word at a way different level, way different level than I did then. And I tell people, some of the people that have started some of these spiritual disciplines since I've known them, is that you have a certain part of you that wants to do that when you become a Christian. You are given a new spirit that's created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. And that part of you wants to follow God. But the programming part of you, the part of you that has been paying attention to whatever it is, whether it's gaming or TV or whatever, that part is programmed to think this other way. That's the part that has to be renewed. It's not your new spirit, that part's ready to go. But when you give God your focus, that's what it calls, you're doing is you're being transformed. You're taking that part that's not new, your natural mind that's been programmed, and you're focusing on God's word so that it can line up with the spirit. When you do that, you're not double-minded anymore. And what happens is like you're giving the spirit something to work with. And now the spirit starts sanctifying you through and through. And you started where you kind of liked it and you kind of enjoyed it, and there was a part of you that wanted to, and part of you that wanted to do something else. And what happened with me is I want over time, I wanted to do that way more than I wanted to do the other stuff. So that one to go sit and watch, you know, it's not like I never watched TV, I'm not saying that. But the passion for this is something the spirit starts to build in you. When you start giving the spirit more of you, right, Brenda?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

You're sowing to the spirit. And when you sow to the spirit, you're gonna reap from the spirit, and now the spirit's gonna fill you to the measure with all the fullness of God. He's gonna sanctify you through and through it, he's gonna tell you what is to come, he is gonna renew you, he's going to cause you to will and to act in order to fulfill God's good purpose. The spirit of the God of the living God's ready to do that for us, but we got to give him access.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah. So what is your go-to scripture for meditation and application?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Probably I would consider it my life first, and that's one that I'll say first, and then I've got another one that's that's really impacting. But Isaiah 26, 3 is this you keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on you because he trusts in you. You see, if I am thinking of myself, I am a branch on the vine, I have the mind of Christ. God is with me, he is in me, he is through me. He will never leave me or forsake me, you know, not separate from the love of Christ. The tribulation or distress or famine or nakedness or peril or sorrow, I'm not separate from God. I start thinking of that, and that reality will bring me peace. It's like when the word says, let the peace of Christ rule. The peace of Christ is always there and a believer ready to rule. The only reason it doesn't rule and that we're anxious, or all these other things, is because we've allowed the other thing to come in on top of that. You know, we've allowed our anxiety and our fear, all the things from our natural mind that's not renewed yet. Where does all that come from? It all comes from the same place. It doesn't come from your newborn spirit. It doesn't come there. It comes from the part of you that's used to looking at everything from the perspective of my five senses. My limited, and you know, I'm separate from God. I'm I've got to handle if I get that out of the way, boy, it's on.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Okay, because I was gonna ask you next, how do you, you know, walk out for someone who's like, okay, I get what you're saying, but how do I practically do this? So you're taking the verses and you're literally visualizing them and praying them over yourself.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah. Well, I think it's a process, and I would tell anybody that's having a real struggle with anxiety or fear, the very first thing before you do anything else is just being aware. Being aware of that thing is coming from this place. That thing is coming from my unrenewed mind. That's where it's coming from. And so I think even starting to realize like, look, the reason that God wants us to yield to the spirit so that the spirit can rule is because we're designed for the Spirit to rule. If the spirit is ruling, we do not get gratify the desires of the sinful nature. If the spirit is ruling, it's a living water, okay? It's when the spirit is not ruling and the flesh is ruling that this other stuff is happening. So number one is awareness, like the flesh is on the throne. That's why this is happening. And number two is realizing that God has given us a way to overcome that, to crucify the flesh. And so that gets into a longer conversation. But in the bigger picture, it's which thing are you feeding? Are you feeding the flesh or are you feeding the spirit? If I'm feeding the spirit, what happens is it's my spirit, my newborn spirit gets stronger and I'm in alliance with the Holy Spirit. And so this the spirit is ruling, and the other stuff, it's like kick kicking the bullies off the street, you know. But if my flesh is ruling, it's just like if you think about something that that I don't struggle with nearly as much as I used to is just being overcome with overeating and those kind of things. Those are fleshly struggles that they have us by the throat, you know? And the reason that they do is because we obey them. You know, don't you know that you're a slave to the one that you obey? So if every time I have a craving, Brenda, if I run to the kitchen, what's gonna happen? That's gonna get stronger, right? So it's stepping back away from this and saying it's not about just doing one thing and one thing's gonna solve anything. It's realizing that there's a spirit and the flesh. And when the spirit starts to rule, your life doesn't become this white knuckled forcing. It's not like that. It's a flow. But to get there, there is some work that's required. You got to kick the wrong ruler off the throne so that we can be in that place, right? Where the spirit is giving us life and vitality and strength. And it's not it's not that we have to force it, it's coming. It's we're letting the spirit rule us. That's a different way of living altogether. It's completely different.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

So, how did you apply that to so your first marriage ended and now you're married again? Yes. How did you apply that to get through from that transition, right? From divorce to finding your new love.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Well, it was a it was kind of a convoluted process. And one of these days I might write a book about it because God had to help me because I was still um, I was seeking him, but I still had a much stronger leaning toward wanting validation from from the from this horizontal sources, you know. Like I want people to like me. I want to feel like there's nothing wrong with wanting to be loved. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be liked. There's nothing wrong with any of those things. But if you put most of your hope there, what are you going to do? You're going to get jerked around constantly because people, you know, are not very trustworthy in some of these ways. And so the reason we want to get that vertical validation is that when we do that, we get stronger and stronger in the presence of the Lord, there's freedom so that when these other things are coming against us, it doesn't affect us the same way because I know who I am in Christ. And so if you know you or somebody else insults me and is rude to me or rejects me or all those things, it's not going to hit me the same way. But in my dating for a while, it was like I realized God showed me I was seeking validation from that. I didn't have the right heart about that. I was seeking, you know, some of it I think was very natural to want to feel like an adult, like a human being, and have somebody talk nice to you. But there's a danger zone there too. There's an invitation there to like be too focused on your looks and be too focused on that. Like some of that is just normal, but some of it is like an invitation to make that such a priority that you miss the whole point. And so God took me through a real struggle then until the time that I was just like, I sort of gave up on everything. And you always hear this story, right? I'm like, well, forget it. That's it, was not too long after that that I that I met my husband. And not so much forget it, not giving up on the idea, but giving it over to God, I guess I would say. Like just saying, Lord, if the right man is out there, you're gonna have to help me because I I on my own, it's not going so great.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

So, what did your struggle look like? Do you mind sharing?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

No, not at all. I mean, it was a a lot of dating, a lot of hits and misses, a lot of frustration, a lot of, you know, it was the good, the bad, and the ugly, about everything you can imagine in between. You know, people saying that they were a Christian that weren't really, or just struggling with the way that that world is right now, you know, and I wasn't perfect in that. I wasn't always, you know, I didn't always react to and treat other people and vice versa the way that I would want to. But each one of those things, I think everything that we go through, Brenda, it's it's an invitation to look back at God and realize, look, I don't have to go through this thing alone. Once I know that I'm a branch on the vine, once I actually know that, I'm never alone again. And so being able to come to a place that you want to be connected with somebody else, I want that, but that's not the thing that is gonna bring me joy. That's not the thing that's gonna bring me peace that might add to my joy and peace. But I've got to know that I've got to put my hope and my trust in God alone. Like once I know that, I'm in a much more healthy place to connect with somebody else and have it be something that lasts.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

So that part of your dating journey, you went through that first step you mentioned. So you became aware that you were leaning towards people pleasing or wanting to be liked and wanting to be loved. And then the Lord was showing you that this is something that we need to resolve before we can move forward.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah, I think it was something that, and I remember going back and looking at my journal and things that I was writing out as goals or hopes and dreams. And in many of those places, I realized I was really struggling with just being, you know, I was so ready for the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And and God, if there was any time in my life, I think that you you go, you learn this your whole life, right? You learn it your whole life. But during that season was more than ever God showing me, look, it's not about doing and like that has its place. But first and foremost, I have to learn to be okay right now in the present moment. Like right now is okay. Because there's a part of us that's always looking forward and always looking back and always looking forward. And you end up missing your whole life because you're waiting for the next thing. I'm waiting for the engagement ring, or I'm waiting to graduate college, or I'm waiting to have the baby, or the house, or the well, and you missed your whole life because right now there's beauty right now. And even as I was going through my divorce, I remember like I can look back at that time and remember people and friends and tender mercies that were just right along the path, right? Remembrances. And I have some of them that I have written down and I go back to, and it's such a perfect parallel for your show. I would tell anybody, do that all the time. Go back and be reminded that there was good even when everything else was like flipped upside down. There was still good there if you're looking for it.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah, that's really good. What you said. One of my good friends and I, we always talk about how and and we encourage each other to stay present where we are. My friend specifically says we're always looking for the next set of instructions from God, but we haven't done what he told us last time, and we haven't been present in this place. And so we're looking forward to the next thing, but we're missing the nuggets, the memorial stones that he's giving us in the present time. And it might not necessarily be the big miracle we're expecting, or that we're hoping we can testify to. It can be, like you said, people showed up for you in that season. It could be a friend who just gives you a call or sends you something that's completely unexpected, or it could be someone who shows up whom you haven't heard from in such a long time, and their presence to you is refreshing, or it could be, you know, just bumping into someone on the street who you don't know, but they bless you in such an incredible way. But if we're so focused on what is God doing next or what's the next season I want to go into, we can't be present there. And I also, you know, when you shared about how um God was working through you in that dating season, if we're always looking forward to the next thing and to the next season, then we're gonna miss the character work he wants to do in us in the present season.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

That was so well said, and there was so much wisdom in that. And I think if anybody can ever get to the place where they realize you're not meant to think of this thing as I go through one struggle after the other and thank God that was over, and now I don't have to worry about trusting God. No, he wants us, he wants to walk with us through the whole thing. And like as we're changing, to your point, like there's something he's doing right now today that is remarkable, that it has the capacity, you know, realizing that there is something to celebrate right now today in the struggle, even, you know, in the struggle. And if you're not looking for it, right, like that's one of the things, again, I can't say it enough. If you understand how to stop and look for the thing, you'll find it. You know, they've they've talked about our reticular activating system, which is the part of us that filters everything out. Like there's we can only take in so much information so our so we filter stuff. And a lot of times what they say is that the reason that we don't see it is not because it's there, it's just because we have not decided that that's important to us. And so if I have not decided it's important to me to remember what God has done and what he is doing, and I want to hear him, then you know, I and then that's the other thing is that God is always trying to speak to us. Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. My sheep hear my voice. Okay, so he's speaking, but if I'm not aligned to that, I'm not gonna hear it. It's just like you were talking about having uh the courage to take a break for a little while from some of the things that you're doing to listen or to apply the stuff that you've already learned. There's tremendous wisdom in that because it is such a cultural thing on us to be going at the speed of crazy all the time. And when we do that, how can God possibly get through to us when we do that?

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Yeah. And I the reason I um I love to do that now is because I was the opposite, right? I was just I was skating from season to season. Um, I wasn't present. I got to a place to where I was burnt out um in all ways, right? Physically, spiritually, emotionally. And so the the concept of remembering the places where God has shown up has been something that I've thought of for so many years. And then I wanted, I said, Lord, I'd love to do a project on this, and then he led me to write the book, but it's the it's one of the major ways I've been able to navigate really challenging seasons is just remembering, well, you did this then, so you can do this now. You did that then, so that means that you're you were present and you're still present. And it doesn't necessarily take away the difficulty of some seasons, but there's comfort in knowing that God is there, that he never leaves us nor forsakes us.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Well, that's tremendous. You know, probably my favorite story in the Bible of is the David story when he's just like, you know, the God delivered me from the bear, he delivered me from the lion, and then he just walks right up to Goliath, you know. That is so important to be able to encourage yourself in the Lord your God and to know that he was with me before. And it doesn't mean, like you say, it doesn't mean the struggle is going to disappear, but you're looking at it through a completely different lens and looking at it through the expectation of good, you know. I always think too, there's a relational mirroring here. I mean, people look at a situation and they're like, well, this person got this and this person didn't. They're like, oh, you know, just who knows God's ways. I disagree with that. I believe that God doesn't change. It's us that we're the ones that change, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

The sun hardens wax and melts clay. What's the difference? It's not the sun, you know, it's not God that's different. You know, so when I come to God and say, Lord, it's like come near to God and He will come near to you. It's like, you know, those who despise me will be disdained, but those who honor me, I will honor. Think about that. There's a relational mirroring. You know, it's not, it's not God being cruel to us, but when we can't, we don't give him a way to connect with us. But one of the reasons I think that David was a man after God's own heart is because he was constantly saying, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. This is who you are, God, and this is who I am. Like he was he was affirming the wonderful things about God, expecting for God to be that, and he was. And I think a lot of times we just we're our own worst enemies because we're not expecting things. We're not expecting God to deliver us, we're not we're expecting quite the opposite. And that's that's not a life of faith.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Wow. I hadn't thought of uh Psalm 23 in that way. Um, but you're you're absolutely right. You said that David said, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, but he actually really believed that he believed that the Lord would show up as his shepherd. Um and I'll confess that I have known scriptures and said I believe them, but I haven't really truly believed them, right? Like, no, God, you're re you really are going to show up in this way in my life. And I think that is a place where believers we get it wrong. Do we actually believe that God is gonna do what he said he was gonna do? Do we actually believe his word? You know, like David, do we actually believe that the Lord is showing up as the shepherd in our lives and that we will not lack? And so segueing off of that, your book, Kingdom Authority, I just I just downloaded it, so I'm I'm excited to read it. But I wanted to ask you, would you be willing to just share with us practically what does it mean to know, believe, and enforce your victory in Christ?

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah, well, the idea for that book came to me after there was some groups where I want to be careful about that. There were some discussions about fear, and I do not believe that you can find in the scripture anywhere where we're told to be afraid of the enemy. We're told to be aware of his schemes, we're told to watch out and to be on the alert, but we're also told that we have been given authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and overcome not a little bit, all the power of the enemy, and that the one who's in us is greater than the one who's in the world. One of the things that this book is meant to do is help people understand that we have been given the authority back that was lost in the Garden of Eden, that God put this thing out for us to subdue the earth, to fill the earth and subdue it, that we were going to rule and reign on the earth. And then what happened in the Garden of Eden is that, you know, that was handed over uh to the enemy. And so that was why later in the temptation of Jesus, when the devil was tempting Jesus, and it was like, and it was like, worship me, and I will give you all the splendor. It has been given to me, and I can give it to anybody I want. Jesus didn't say that's not true. The reason is because mankind gave away that authority, but Jesus bought it back, bought it back. So he later said, All authority has been given to me in heaven and earth, and he had he has overcome. So he overcame by the blood of the Lamb. So the authority is now given back to believers to overcome, we're redeemed from the curse. And he's meaning for us to bring the kingdom of God wherever we go. But if I don't know that, okay, the thief comes to steal and kill and destroy it. And so what's happening with a lot of people is that stuff is being stolen from them and they don't even realize it. And so they just let it happen. It matters that I not only know that I have authority in Christ, that I have the name of Jesus, that I've been given power to use that name, but that I believe it when I say it, that it that it means something to me. There's a difference when I speak from faith, and when I speak when I'm just speaking as a parrot. I mean, I would tell anybody that words are spirit. They always matter. I would say that, you know, you can't say words don't matter because words matter, but there's a difference between a word spoken with faith and a word that's just spoken as I'm just, you know, reading something off of a card and it doesn't mean anything to me. I absolutely believe that the spiritual world responds to our words spoken in faith, that the word of God releases power when we speak it like that. And so again, knowing it first, if I don't know, I'm just gonna get ripped off, you know. If I didn't know that it was illegal for somebody to break through my door and somebody came in, I'm just like, oh, well, I guess they took my stuff, you know, I gotta know it. I gotta believe it. And then I enforce it to the level that I understand it and that it is deep in me. I don't question it anymore. I know when I command the enemy to leave, he's gotta go because I've been given the name of Jesus. And I grow in my authority to conquer those things.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

So when you say that we need to know these things, like so the example you gave at the beginning is that there's nowhere in scripture where it says we should be afraid of the enemy. What other examples could you share that would be good for the listener to know that, oh, this isn't something I need to imbibe?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I think one of the things that we do sometimes is we come to God and we say, Lord, you know, I'm being attacked here, I'm back being attacked there. But we've actually been given the power to go and address that. We are told to resist the enemy and he will flee. Okay. I'm supposed to resist the enemy. I'm supposed to resist. I'm supposed to do that. Like I'm supposed to take on that mantle and apply it, you know, and it's just like when demons cowered before Jesus, they cowered before Jesus because they recognized him, the Holy One of Israel. We know, you know, we know who you are. They knew it was up. If we understood, Brenda, Christ in me, hope of glory, if I understand that the spirit of the living God is in me and through me, and that I'm supposed to be more than a conqueror, and that I'm supposed to be going out and helping people go from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, and that I'm supposed to be the light of the world, and that I'm supposed to be God's Christ's ambassador. If I do that, I'm gonna do a whole different thing than if I don't think of myself that way. You know, we are meant to operate and walk as those who are in Christ. In Christ is a whole different paradigm than not being in Christ. In Christ, I have the same power that raised Jesus Christ living in and through me. I have every spiritual blessing in Christ. I'm an heir of God, co-er of Christ. I need to know who I am in Christ. If I don't know, I can't help anybody with that. The name of Jesus spoken with power is going to change the spiritual atmosphere, period. I need to know a belief, and then I enforce it.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

To the listener who's like, I'm not sure I understand what that is. How do they get from a place of just saying words to actually understanding and knowing who they are in Christ? Do you have any practical examples you can share with the listener to do that?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

I will definitely give a couple of things. And I would say I did offer that book. It's not in final editing. So there's, you know, it's offered at a very inexpensive price. And I do have a lot of meditations on there in that book that could be helpful if they want to go look that book up. But it is simply a process of internalizing. Okay. It's internalizing. Okay. You know, the first time that you hear something, you may sort of agree with it, but you have to internalize it and you have to understand it at every level. And so there is a deepening understanding as I expose myself to it and meditate on it and chew on it and think about it. Think about what that means. And one of the things that I've said in a couple of my books is this this is the thing to take with you. Think it, see it, say it. Think it, see it, say it. Okay. Think it is meditation. Okay. There's lots of different kinds. There's passive, there's dynamic, okay? I'm thinking about that. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. A lot of people struggle with condemnation. That was one of the first verses I ever memorized. And ironically, that's not something I struggle with. I believe that. I believe there's no condemnation against me. So if the enemy were to come and tell me you're under, you know, condemnation, I'd be like, no, I'm not. It is written, you know. Now there's other places where there's weakness, but you find those things that you don't believe, Brenda. Find it, circle it, print it out, put it on your refrigerator and write what the word says. Okay. The enemy said this to me, I say this. No, it is written. And then as you're starting to believe it, you start to see it. How do you see it? Like you think of yourself under some kind of attack, and then you think of yourself as strong. Maybe think of yourself with a shield and a sword, and you're like, no, that's seeing it, visualizing it, and say it is speaking it. There is no condemnation for me in Jesus' name. Speaking it, okay. All three of those are ways, they're mechanics of faith. They're ways that we get that belief down deep.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Okay. Yeah, I love that because it gives gives the Listeners, our friends, just something practical to do. And so just even going back to verse one of Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. So just taking that, thinking it, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. And then progressing to a place of seeing it, of seeing the Lord as our shepherd, and seeing ourselves in a place where there's no lack, um, and then and saying it until it's something that no matter where we go or what we do, we know the Lord is my shepherd. I mean, and that's powerful because you talked about fear earlier. And so if we can really understand and really believe that the Lord is our shepherd, then wherever we go, no matter what's going on, we know that the shepherd is protecting us because the shepherd protects his sheep.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah. I've got to, I'll try not to go into a long story about that. But there's a pastor I know that had a problem with rejection, like feeling alone, and he started meditating on that over and over again. And ultimately, the power in that became so strong that people feel overcome by the power of God when they when they come up on stage with him. Why? Because he has built that thing up. He knows the Lord is with me. Like there is something happening in the spiritual realm. When you do this, your thoughts are powerful. And to the extent that you're connected with the mind of Christ, spiritual power will flow through you.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Facts. So in your facts, right? In your personal life, are you like, are there scriptures that you're taking on like a monthly, weekly basis that you're doing this with, or is it just based on what's going on in my life right now? I really need to think, see, say these particular scriptures. Like what's your practice given what you're you're teaching us and given the books that you've written?

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yes, absolutely. I do, I have several things that I do. I have a daily meditative practice. Some of it is just in God's presence. I'm in God's presence to focus on that. But I do have a daily internalization practice. I have ways that I do that that have become very strong, especially if I, and I'll give you one of my best ones ever is all of us have our phones. You know, you could you could do something like recording yourself in your own voice, just on your voice memo. It's me reading, I'm the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want is your voice, and then listen back to that through headphones. And another thing that I do when I'm learning verses is the Lord is my strength and shield. I trust him in all my heart. He helps me, and my heart is filled with joy. Let's say I wanted to learn that verse, I record it three times or whatever, and then I hear it over and over again. Hey, your voice, your mind, you will be speaking that. But right now I have one's verses that I want to strengthen that are important to my ministry, to what I'm saying. So I listen to those, I focus on those. But absolutely, no matter what I'm going through, I walk around my house. I walk around my house. No weapon formed against me will prosper, and I'll refute every tongue that accuses me. I'm strong in the Lord. And this day and every day, I mean, I walk around. I'm blessed in the country, I'm blessed in the city, I'm blessed when I come in, I'm blessed when I give out. The blessing of the Abraham is monogram. It makes you strong to say those things. Yeah. It makes to feel the power of the spirit. You're working, you're collaborating with God when you do that to build up your spirit.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

That's so good. I used to record myself saying verses, and I haven't done that in a while, but I was just thinking like, how powerful would it be to record some scriptures and then go on your walk, put your headphones in and just listen to that over and over and over and over again. Um, and and go through your steps, right, of thinking it, seeing it, saying it, because faith grows by hearing and hearing the word of God, right? So if we continue to hear that and we're hearing it in our voice, things will start to shift for us. And then we'll also start to see God showing up in a different way, and we'll start picking up more memorial stones, right? Because we're actually now believing the scriptures and putting them into practice.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

That's so good and so true. And I would say here's the thing: you can't not have it change you. You know, neuroscientists tell us that I can read a single paragraph in a book and I'm permanently changed just from that one thing. So, of course, like you said, you know, faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ. But for a lot of us, unbelief comes from hearing too. Unbelief is coming all the time. Unbelief comes from what? From all this other stuff. Like if I spend 23 hours out of my day doing one thing and I give God this one little blip, and then I'm going, wow, I just don't feel like I've I'm very transformed. Yeah, no, you're probably not. You know, you're we've got to realize where we are focusing our attention and realize there is a consequence. It can be something that brings us life or something that brings us more separation from God. And so we got to be aware of that.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Yeah, that's so good. I can't believe we're almost at time. So if you don't mind, could you tell the listeners which tools of yours would be good for someone if someone were to just get one of your tools, which one would that be for the purpose of understanding who we are in Christ?

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Well, probably the book that is most aligned to that right now is the Kingdom Authority book because it talks a lot about what we've been given in Christ. But I do have, I'm trying to think where it is. I've got some links that have affirmations. I could send this to you and you could put it on link in the description.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

In the show notes. Yes. That'll be good.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Yeah, I've got something that I give where people can just proclaim these things, affirmations. I am this, I am that, with the scriptures that go with it. So that would be a good place to start. But the thing to remember about affirmations is it's not the affirmation itself, it's just a tool to get you somewhere because it's not going to work for me just to repeat words. That's that's helping me for a while until that is internalized. Like if somebody told you you're ugly long enough, you start to believe it, right? Well, I start to believe the other thing and I keep hearing that, and then it starts, you know, and and you might have some places where it kicks back for a while. Like, no, I'm not, no, I'm not. But you've got to go deeper and ask God to help you. And if you become the key is persistence. It's just persistence. If you're persistent, you will see, you will see a result.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Oh, I like that what you said, that the affirmation, it's not the affirmation that does it, but it's a tool to get us there. That's really important to remember. If that's, you know, one of the several things listeners can take away. It's that that the affirmation is a tool.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah. And one thing I would add to that is like everybody is different. You know, some people get really hung up, like, well, I didn't do my meditation, I didn't do my affirmation. They start feeling guilty. Don't do all none of that's helpful. The spirit of the living God is ready to give you everything you need and that you could possibly ever need. And what he's trying to do is get access. So, what this stuff is about is about access. I'm giving him my mouth, I'm giving him my imagination, I'm giving the spirit of the living God my mind. I'm yielding to God. Okay. If you never print out an affirmation sheet ever again, and you spend time with the Lord saying, Father, help me, okay, he's gonna help, he's gonna find a way to help you. These are just that, like you said. It's just trying to get me to the same place, which is that more of my life is led by the spirit, guided by the spirit, filled with the spirit. And then that is becomes my new norm. And it's like it's not gonna happen. Walking by the flesh and walking by the spirit, two separate, totally separate things. But every step I take toward the spirit, that gets stronger. And then it becomes less difficult. And then you wake up with a psalm in your heart. You wake up going, woo! I mean, it's a different life. It has the potential to be that increasingly every day of our life.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

I I've been thinking of your children. How do you practice this with your children?

SPEAKER_01 52:11

It's wonderful. They're they're adult children now, one's out of college and one's a junior in college. But for years, I used to be, they could not escape me. We'd be on the way to school and I'd be like, I've got a verse for you guys. And he'd be like, Mom, don't have to, you know. But now they know so many of these principles and they're applying them. And it's beautiful to watch. It's it's it's worth it to share the word of God. It says, talk about these things when you walk along the road, when you lie down, when you get up. We're meant to walk these things out with our children and let them become part of our lives. And when we do that, it will stick with them. These things will stick with them. And for the girls, they both have their own separate set of verses that are their favorites, and they're all speaking to different things that they went through in their life. But it's something when they see that those things impact us, when they realize that the word of God is impacting mom, they're gonna realize it can impact them too. And it does.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Yeah. Wow, that's really powerful. What would you like the listeners to know, Kathleen, before we wrap up? And then do you mind praying for us?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

First of all, I've loved every minute of this. I love your heart, your spirit, your show and what you're doing. And I pray that God will continue to bless you in this ministry. Thank you. What I would want the listeners to know, you're a branch on the vine. You're not separate from God. He loves you, and he has said this. I have told you these things so that my joy might be in you and your joy might be complete. And here's the thing: what things? What things? Go back a few verses. Just that. I'm the vine vine, you're the branches. Start remembering I'm not disconnected. I'm connected. The Spirit of the Living God is moving through me, in me, and my life can be filled to the measure with all the fullness of God. A spring of living water that is welling up to eternal life. And so, Father, I pray for every person that hears this message today. I pray that you would help them know that they are loved, that they are desperately loved, that they are cherished, that you are rejoicing over them with singing, that you want them to know that there is living water and that that it is theirs and that they can live a life abundant and free, and that you're not withholding that from them, but you are reaching your hand out to them, saying, Come to me, all who labor and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. He is the living water and he is there for you. Father, I pray that you bless each person with these words and with your words always in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Amen and amen. Thank you so much, Kathleen. And I just want to challenge the listeners that whatever it is you're going through right now, go and find a scripture and just go through the three steps that Kathleen shared with us. Just start there. Put it on your phone, record it, think it, see it, say it until you believe it, and watch how God moves in that place in your life. So thank you so much. This this was really rich, Kathleen. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Wonderful. Huge honor. God bless you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

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