JessiStories Unheard Voices

How A Docuseries Exposed A Modern Cult With Evidence And Care

• Jessi Hersey • Season 1 • Episode 1

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A promise of soulmates can sound harmless—until you see how it’s packaged, sold, and enforced. We sat down with the executive producer and post-production showrunner of Escaping Twin Flames to unpack how the series was made and why it hits so hard: survivor trust, legal rigor, and a rare look inside private meetings that most viewers never imagine exist.

Inbal Lessner and Jessi talk about the steep learning curve from NXIVM and how that experience sharpened the team’s lens on Twin Flames Universe: specialized jargon, layered hierarchies, and repetitive “lessons” that normalize control. The evidence bar was set high—every text, email, and clip required triple verification—because the stakes are real and the group has a history of litigation. When new hard drives surfaced late in the edit, inner-circle footage reframed the story, revealing candid conversations about unpaid labor, tax status shifts, and how doctrine moves from public charm to private pressure.

The heart of our conversation is people. Survivors needed time, context, and the autonomy to decide if and when to speak. Families learned to keep a bridge open without triggering rehearsed defenses. We explore the cycle that traps many inside coercive groups, where victims can be compelled to enforce rules on others, and how repair begins through acknowledgment, expert guidance, and careful storytelling. On the craft side, we dig into the edit: intercut testimonies that independently corroborate patterns, a collaborative team process across cities, and guidance from GLAAD to portray gender issues with care. The outcome is a series that’s gripping without being sensational, and useful without losing its edge.

If you’ve ever thought “that could never happen to me,” this talk offers a different lens: it’s less about individual gullibility and more about the power of targeted techniques at vulnerable moments. Listen, share with someone who needs the warning signs, and help us push for survivor support and accountability. If this conversation moved you, subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what red flags do you see more clearly now?

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for being here involved. And if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself and role on Escaping Twin Flames on Netflix? Hi, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, Jesse, for having me. I'm Inbal Lesnar, and I'm executive producer and showrunner in charge of Post, which is the whole editing part of the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, perfect. Um, so my first question is were you part of the initial pitch to Netflix? Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So Cecilia and I have been sub-ec the director and my partner, a producer, have been doing films together since 2008. We've done Brave Miss World together, that came out in 2014. And then we did Seduced Inside the Nexium Cult for Stars, that came out in 2020. And when that show was released, Cecilia spearheaded with some of the survivors from the Nexiome Cult this website, seducedocumentary.com. And in order to provide resources and a place for people escaping cults, wondering if they're in a cult, or family members who have loved ones trapped in cults to connect and have resources, like I said, and share stories and find help. And we started receiving a ton of emails and about all kinds of cults, many different types of groups, and also people who recognized cultic dynamics in other places, in like romantic relationships, workplace relationships, church and places of worship. And we heard from some of the people who have just left Twin Flames universe, and that seemed like one of the most urgent stories, and we felt compelled to pursue that. So, yes, we looked into that. Cecile usually spearheads those relationships and those connections. She started connecting with you as well as you, Jesse, as well as other former members, and kind of one led to another. And that's how it slowly came about. We eventually, after a long, many ups and downs and different detours, focused on just on Twin Flames universe and pitched it to most sort of studios and streaming companies and received multiple offers and decided to do it with Netflix. We felt that was the sort of bigger biggest platform and would provide the most exposure for this story. Thankfully, you guys went with that.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's see. You kind of answered one of them already. Let's see. How much research was involved in making this docky series, Escaping Twin Flips?

SPEAKER_00:

So I think the fact that we had done one series about Nexium, I think my my personal learning curve on Nexium was pretty steep. Like I, when we did that show in 2019, 2020, there was a lot to learn. You know, terminology I didn't know, psychological dynamics I didn't know. It was really difficult to wrap your head around all the cult-specific lingo. There's a lot, it's it's a it's a typical thing for cults to kind of develop their own language so that the members feel like they're part of something really special. They have, they can only understand each other and nobody else can understand them. And so you try to, you know, develop empathy to it and understand it. You really have to sort of understand it from the inside. You have to understand the cult language, you have to understand the whole structure of classes and courses and the hierarchy in the group and who's in the inner circle and who's not in the inner circle, and the level of coaches and master coaches. And so I think once I understood the Nexium dynamic, it was easier for me to apply that learning and logic to the twin flames universe structure and find a lot of things that were the same in both in the psychological manipulation of it. Yeah. And a lot of like, you know, in in Nexium, they had EM, the exploration of meaning. And that's very much like what Twin Flames Universe does with the mirror exercise or or map. So it might have different name and a little different specifics, but a lot of the core sort of principles and brainwashing techniques, indoctrination techniques are the same. So I feel like I was able to get into it more quick more quickly this time. What I think takes longer is to develop the kind of relationships with the former members and the family members, where they really trust us to tell their story with truthfully, with integrity, with respect, that it's not going to get be exploited and that we will take care of them when things, when difficult things come up. You know, it's a it's a very delicate relationship between a producer and a subject, documentary subject, especially when so much trauma is involved. So I would say that was even more tasking or important than than the research, if that if that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

I know I personally appreciated. Actually, I said this was Zoe, but I appreciated that I wasn't recorded right away because I know Cecilia and you, I wouldn't allow you guys to record right away. And so I know I have memories of you at least re-asking me questions because you ended up just writing it down, but you checked with me before you even started writing down. And I personally really appreciate that because my experience, at least with the production company that was working with Amazon, they just went right into anything and didn't necessarily ask every time. They did get a little bit of recording, but that was without me saying yes to them. But so I appreciated that personally because it showed that you actually, well, you guys cared about the person and not necessarily hopping on and getting the story right away.

SPEAKER_00:

I think, yeah, I think that's true. And I think not everybody is ready. Not everybody has to do a tell their story in a documentary because they're not emotionally ready in their healing, or it's just not right for them and their circumstances. And so you really have to proceed with caution and make sure they're taking, they're making that decision for the right reasons and they understand the implications of it. By the time we did Escaping Twin Flames, we've had, you know, years of relationships. I mean, Cecilia and I do projects outside of the projects we did together, but in terms of the projects we did together, we've had all the survivors we featured in Brave Miss World. We've had all the survivors we featured in Seduced Inside the Nexium Cult. And so we could sometimes we referred Twin Flames Universe survivors and said, why don't you talk to those survivors and see for yourself what was their experience in telling their story with a camera crew in the room once it was on TV, once people started responding to it, you know, in social media or personally, people in their lives that maybe didn't know the full story. And so I think we created this community of survivors we worked with that could share this experience better than we could explain it. And, you know, it would have been manipulative for me to tell you, oh, you're gonna be so happy when it comes out. Trust me, it's gonna be all worth it. Like I haven't, that wasn't my experience, right? So I think connecting the potential interviewees, right? The the people we wanted to interview with people who've done it in the past was an asset that we can do. And obviously the the the work is out there for people to see. And if they trust our taste, our our ethics, our style, that's on the screen. Uh, and that helped with with trust, with building trust. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

And also putting the evidence in the docuseries itself, since those are straight from Twin Flame Ascension School and meetings.

SPEAKER_00:

Every every piece, every text message, screenshot, Facebook post, email, video recording, sound recording, every single thing you see in the documentary is a real evidence, is real potentially legal criminal piece of evidence. And we did very little to change it visually to just, you know, make it pleasant to watch or or you know, fit to watch a television screen. But it's all not only true to the original evidence, but also vetted by a team of lawyers. And we had to provide three, what's the word I'm looking for? Like three verifications for every piece of evidence. So every time you see an email, every time somebody makes a verbal claim, that all had to have triple verifications.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I know with me too, just to validate continuously that I know I had to look and find some of the evidence myself too in emails and if I had gotten any screenshots. And then I sent it over to you guys and the possibility of stories too. I sent over, which we did do some of the filming of stuff that didn't make it in. But we yeah, there was a lot of verification, checking in, and you guys were really good at letting me know too of how many verifications and what counts as verification and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_00:

We couldn't provide enough three verifications and it wouldn't make the show, it just would have to cut it out. And there were instances like that. Absolutely. It's pretty high bar uh journalism, journalistic ethics, and you know, because it's it's a big streamer and there's a potentially lawsuits involved. This group is very litigious. There's been a history of lawsuits. Um, so there was definitely a lot of scrutiny on anything uh anybody claimed that it was it was triple checked to make sure everything is absolutely the truth. Yes, absolutely. And then but I want I want to get to the other point just for a second. I want to say something. You know, everybody throws around true crime, true crime, it's such a like a popular genre now. And you know, when I talked about what what the part of research that is really the most important to us, I keep saying that true crimes equals true crime victims. So that's something that people and sometimes networks or streamers forget that this this sort of possibly titillating stories or exciting, you know, stories of of true crimes, meaning real crime occurred and real people got hurt. And so for us, doing this responsibly and for the people to feel like they have agency over telling their story on their terms as much as possible, and that they're they feel honored, they feel good with the way that it's told, that's paramount for us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And it also showed, too, at least for me, it definitely showed because you guys were really good at also explaining and being clear of what's happening next, what it's gonna look like. If you're comfortable with it, okay. If you're not, we don't have to do it. You always had it very clearly stated, not just in email form, but verbally too, and would re-go over it, which was always appreciated too, during because it was definitely a long process for everyone involved, you know, even for me too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And then what was nope before I go to that one. Do you believe Jeff and Shlia are a danger to society after doing all the research and getting to know the lingo and everything you put in?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, we have to speak carefully because this is, you know, I don't, I don't personally want to get sued. I personally believe there is criminal activity. And I think many people, including yourself, were very hurt, financially abused, emotionally abused, psychologically abused. Some people were sex trafficked, not allegedly, like actually. Well, we have to stick with allegedly for now. I I'll go on the line and say that I feel like I've seen enough. You know, we we reviewed here. This is what I'll tell you. We reviewed almost a thousand hours of Twin Flames Universe produced videos, educational classes that are still being sold to members, by the way, still packaged and being sold to members, even though they're featuring, you know, intimate, confidential, supposedly, um, group therapy sessions with many people who have left the group and been sued by the group. So, but but those classes are still offered as a package educational, you know, class that you can purchase once you become a Twin Flames Universe member. We reviewed almost a thousand hours of these, in addition to many hundreds of hours of YouTube videos and many other materials. And then about a month, I think, before we finished the editing process, we received another hard drive where there were, so the show was almost done without it. But then we received these files, these videos of sort of inner circle meetings, Twins Flames Universe, corporate or company meetings, where the higher-ups are discussing business decisions and sort of the behind the scene. And so for me, what I observed, and I'll talk mostly about Jeff, because I think Shalia is a little bit more of a sidekick, although, you know, I I don't claim to understand exactly the nature of their relationship. I never met them. But for me, on observing Jeff, there's the YouTube sort of public-facing Jeff. That's the first layer, right? The Porsche video, the things he puts on YouTube, where he's like just like a real salesman. Yes. And there's like not, if you really look between the lines and under the surface, you might see things that are uncomfortable, but it's innocuous for the most part. It's maybe cringy. And they're certainly selling something very attractive, and they're promising a lot of things, right? And then for me, the second layer is those videos. So once you're become a member, you're encouraged to watch at least a 90-minute class lesson every day. So is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

I you were encouraged. So if I yeah, I was actually part of a lot of the executive meetings, even though you didn't see that. Like the one that is shown in the docuseries, I was there for that. But for each thing, you're encouraged not only to do life purpose class, twin flame ascension, plus the e-courses if you own any of them. If you're a coach, you need to watch each of them and you need to have watched all of them. If you want to be a master coach, you need to complete, which I did complete watching life purpose class and almost completed twin flame ascension school. You have to complete watching everything. And then if you ever stop following Jeff and Chillia's rules or have a block to it, you're encouraged to watch more or do the mirror exercises are the two things they constantly have you do, no matter what.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So there's a constant barrage of this doctrine of this lingo and teachings, right? Daily. So you're saying between an hour and a half to three hours, possibly more, and then participating in additional meetings for you as a volunteer, not unpaid, where there's like more of that kind of coming at you. So I feel like that's the second level where if you're already in, you're already paying, you're already indoctrinated, and and going deeper and deeper into that indoctrination. And that's where he's you start seeing the manipulation and berating of members, of this like love bombing and and and abuse sort of oscillating between loving and and and and reprimand reprimanding. And he starts using foul language and yelling at people and yelling at Jalia and talking about you know closing the dog in the basement for days, or or you know, if you really start seeing things that are not that are off and not okay, and pushing people to pursue their twin flames very aggressively, and even joking about breaking the law, and so a whole myriad of things that are really off, and those are behind the paywall, right? Those are for paying members only. And then the third layer is those private executive meetings, private higher inner circle meetings. And that's where he's really unhinged, in my opinion. And that's where you really see evidence of criminal actions, I think. That's where he says in in episode two, oh, I have an idea of how to we don't have to pay taxes, let's make it a church. And we found the moment that they make that decision to turn Twin Flames Universe into a 501c3 church. And oh, we we have all these people working for us and we don't pay anybody. Oh, great. They they could just be like volunteering for the church. So, and many, many other moments that are just mind-blowing, upsetting. And so all to say that I think it's it's a multi-layered, complicated, and the more you get into hit less of his facade, sort of public-facing persona, you can really see that it's all about money and power and sort of the real Jeff under the now underneath those layers. Does that answer your question? Yes, that absolutely does.

SPEAKER_01:

And just so there's even further backup on that, like the forum is literally, well, Jeff has said himself, whether you're watching Life Purpose class or a coaching meeting or an executive meeting, that the pool of money is literally within the forum or anywhere online that you can grab at. Like we were literally taught that. So you were taught to not only give either videos or talk about the classes or some other way to bring people up. So that's the lowest layer that leads to what seems like a pyramid scheme, personally to me. Yeah, the lowest layer to bring in new community members, including family. He would ask for family too and others. But if your family wasn't for what he was doing, then you'd absolutely cut off them and you're trained.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, family alienation and and family alienation is one of the first things we noticed that was very evident. People who lost contact with their parents, who were made to believe their parents were abusive or didn't want their best interest. Yeah, any any family member who didn't support this ascension path, right? This twin flames ascension path, was dismissed as as an enemy, you know, as as persona non grata, as far as Jeff was concerned. And we have several stories in the documentary, and there's there are many more that we heard that didn't make it into the series, and that that were really heartbreaking. And it takes, for me, some of the most moving stories were stories like your mom or Lene's mom, or you know, where some parents pushed through and managed to be there for their kids when they when there was a moment of opportunity to like shut up, shut off the laptop, shut off the computer, and like look again at. And it's very difficult. It's very difficult to know what to say and how how how gentle you have to be. I think we learned a lot about that from Katherine Oxenberg in when we were making seduced and from Yanya, you know what you should say, what not to say, how to say it. There's many things you can't really say when somebody is this indoctrin is this so deeply indoctrinated. You can tell them they're in a cult because the group. has trained them to how to answer to that, right? And to lash out at that and how to process that in their brains. So those those stories were very, very moving. I still cry every time I I watch and I watch this thousands of times, but I still watch I still cry when I watch you tell the story about your mother in episode three and how she finally helped you s begin to wake up and understand that this was an imposed identity and this was a core this was coercion and this was you making you move away from who you were and not closer to who you were.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I yeah bringing up that part of the story brought up a lot. Like when my mom was watching it I actually worried about how she'd react but she was honestly good with it and happy because she didn't expect I didn't tell her that you didn't tell her that you shared that story. No I I yeah I let her watch it because I couldn't handle like the first time with our little group meet of the premiere the first time around was hard enough for me to watch it but I watched it again with her and it was so hard to watch but I watched through it because a lot of the stories even though because of the Martial Fires I don't have as much proof but I absolutely have I just found out recently a lot of really important proof two back stories. And yeah she just for her there's a lot of processing involved too because I never until the docuseries started opening up and I guess fighting more for educational purposes because of how unknowing a lot of people are and how anyone can literally be indoctrinated in and I strongly believe so I mean I'm I'm and I'm sorry some people I I read a lot of I'm I'm a Twitter you know and X or whatever they call it now.

SPEAKER_00:

And I I do love you know when you make TV you don't usually don't get to show the film in a theater and like get the real time reactions of people watching it. So the way you get to understand how people react to your creation to your art to your show is is by looking online and seeing how what people write about it on Facebook and Twitter and so forth. And um too many people still say this cannot happen to this would not happen to me. How could they ever listen to this whistle or you know this people are so non-charismatic why would anybody listen to them or stupid I've gotten stupid a lot too that they're stupid for yeah going in or you're so naive or I'm sorry Jesse. It's okay has it I wish I I feel like it's a form of victim blaming and but I feel like people it makes people feel more safe if they feel like this won't happen to them. Like oh I could never be disgulky stupid steals one. I just I just strongly think I could be in a cult most people I know have moments of vulnerability in their lifetime and it's it's a combination of where you are in your life and maybe experiencing a broken heart or life transition or going to call being on your own for the first time going to college whatever is losing somebody close to you there's so many moments in your life that can leave you open and vulnerable to unethical influence and persuasion and and coercion. And I think we need to really turn the mirror to like not what makes us vulnerable because I think we're all vulnerable to influence but what makes those micro targeting those in in those recruitment indoctrination techniques so powerful and recognize those red flags so that to help others avoid them. And I really think it's more it's much more easy to get sucked into something like this than people think.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I fully agree with that. And I think like at least what I've personally been doing a lot on TikTok is I take those comments, especially if they don't understand and I don't reply back when I'm feeling upset after reading it. I give myself time to think clearly and respond clear minded honestly so I can help educate. I like honestly getting told you're gullible, you're stupid, you're so on because it's easier to educate that way because they don't know. So those comments come from a place of not knowing not everything because you definitely don't have time to put everything into the docuseries you're only given a certain amount of time that's what I've described in every interview you only get a certain amount of time so there's no way you can fit everything that happens in it. So that leaves opportunity for everyone else to educate because there is things not seen in the docuseries that because you just couldn't put it in it there wasn't time that happens like we most of us that are in the docuseries were there before all the red flags were shown so brightly like it is now today and people are basing it off of now that we were three four five years ago each one of us versus present.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah you know I work a lot as an editor that's how I grew up in my career in the business and the last film I edited about Stormy Daniels really taught me how to like she's a masterful Twitter user and the way she responds to tweets sort of trying to bash her or to disparage her are just is just so masterful and and funny and she owns you know whatever they throw at her she owns and then she totally strikes back in the most delicious way. So I strongly encourage you to check out some of her funny Twitter comments. She's she's so brilliant at that I'll definitely do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Actually who I really like right now Renee Rapp she's pretty fun especially since she just now started becoming a household name she's fun because she's to the point like in most of her interviews she'll be brutally honest and instead of taking it back she goes I I want you to be offended if you're offended be offended that's just something I really like from her but here's the fun question what's your favorite moment on set or moments?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah that's a tough one Jesse so as a showrunner in charge of post I mostly stay behind in the office and supervise our editing team and I don't always go to set on set to meet people but I usually I always supervise by Zoom or help you know I monitor the the interviews and shoots by Zoom even when I'm not there. So just just so people get an idea because the editing goes on while we're still filming. And so there's a big team that Cecilia and I take turns sort of have to both handle uh filming. So Cecilia will will go out to the on set and travel and do the interviews while I stay in Los Angeles city office and supervise the editors both in in LA and New York. But I did have a few experiences of of of going on set and the day we filmed with you in LA was very very special. I loved meeting you and being there in person for that. And that was a very very special day and I loved that you got to meet Sarah Berman uh sort of off camera. And that was a very very special day for me meeting you and hearing that story that I told you still makes me tear up hearing that in person in real time and hearing you talk about things that we didn't even know like because we do a certain amount of you know pre-interviews and research and we know what we're going to ask but then the beauty of finding out new things and you talked about the healing sessions and like the torture of being on Zoom for sometimes 12 hours straight until everybody accepts is con is persuaded or accepts the the the conditions of this indoctrination. And to me it sounds like waterboarding like it's just such obvious torture. And I think like we both we all like heard it that clearly for the first time when we interviewed you. So that I remembered as being a very strong sort of onset experience. I also remembered flying up just for I think a day to Oakland to the Bay Area where we filmed Keely meeting Dr. Yanya Lalich for the first time and you know by then I've seen I've met Keely on Zoom. It wasn't in her trailer for her interview but I've seen it through Zoom and I've I've been on many calls and and many many months of of working with her to figure out if she will participate. And I arrived from the airport after they already started setting up and she was ready to like walk into Yanya's house on camera. And I was I was just arriving and I saw her and like you know you have these people that you meet virtually and I as an editor I have the experience of having edit room friends. I don't know if you know the the expression but it's like your bay friends edit bay friends the people that you see every day on your screens in the edit room in the editing room and like you know every muscle in their faces you know how they speak you know the way their you know their muscles move when they when they're upset or when they're laugh but you've never met them in person. And so you know you feel like they're your close friends but then no they don't know who the F you are and so of course with Killy was different. We had many conversations where she met me and we've talked to each other but to see her in person I think was very such a strong moment. And I held her and we just you know kind of embraced and I I I remember that being a very uh strong moment because I knew how courageous she had to be to make the decision to be in the documentary because she was used to manipulate and indoctrinate others to hurt others like yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

I think as we all were too actually Keely and I talked about that in our interview.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think if I kept it in or not I don't know it's been a long editing process but yeah we talked about so brave to like confront your own demons like what's in you where were you susceptible to not just be brainwashed but to also help this machine to to indoctrinate others and this dynamic of abuser abused and abuser which is so typical for cult structures and it's hard for people to understand how you can become part of that system and also hurt others while because you're being so hurt and you're being so afraid of of the consequences of retaliation and losing everything you have. So you know and I think for her to meet Dr. Lalic in person and for Dr. Lalic really to help her unpack that and forgive herself and then go make amends to other members like you and Angie that that scene we show in episode three other people she hurt was very very powerful. I kind of felt all that when I when I saw her for the first time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes that's awesome I like that a lot but yeah that's definitely true about the abuse becoming abuser because you are trained like if you are a coach you are automatically part of that system which I was a coach and I actually since I already said this to Keely because uh before Keely went to Jeff and Shelia I actually was her first coach before she went to them we did one session and at the end of that session she said she was going to Jeff and Shelia. So I did coach her I have both perspectives I've been her coach and she's been my coach. Wow I didn't I did not know that no but I'm letting it out now because it's anyways in my memoir. But I'm gonna have this part deleted out but yeah it is part of my story because I did have her and multiple other people too I actually there was another session there's a lot of memories recoming back to that I did both her and the other person that she was with that counted as her twin flame at the time we did have one session like that too before we did our full switch of now you're my coach.

SPEAKER_00:

It's interesting how uh once you start and this is something we've seen typical we've definitely seen it with India Oxenberg who was still I think deprogramming when we worked with her on on the Nexium series but once you start reliving memories and telling them then more things come back right and then as you it's it's very typical I feel like for for victims of indoctrination once you ununtangle some neuropaths and then more come back and then more has to be detangled it's it's quite fascinating to watch it as a storyteller, as a sort of filmmaker and allow that to surprise you, you know, like like I said when we interviewed you more things came up that we haven't heard before so we hadn't heard before so you want to allow that and have enough flexibility in your storytelling process where you can be like oh well that's new let's let's go in let's go down that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly that's why honestly it's been fun at least Keely and I we talked forever on and off camera. And so we were both able to bring back a lot of that's why I like talking about it. So not only going on podcasts, YouTube doing interviews too uh it helps bring up more which also helps for my storytelling in my memoir because I already have like 25% of it done and I keep going back in sections and if others, which I'm now aware of others writing which I'm glad others are writing the more we talk the better it is honestly and the more we can add to it and more evidence within the written word since the written word is a legal document even in book form is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah I just wanted to add that in there you know I salute all of you that it you really I think many of the mothers and former members in our show really saw that as part of sort of their legal battle to fight back and expose. And I think all of you understood the sort of greater mission here to educate and to expose and to seek justice. And so you know it's it's for people watching this at home this may be sort of peculiar entertainment but I hope they see that it's more than that and they demand to see justice to have this group that's still active be stopped and that they understand that recovering from cult indoctrination can be a lifelong process and as a society we need to put resources understand that resources need to be allocated to that and support cult survivors.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely fully agree while you're up for an Eddie Award, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes we were so our editing team has been nominated for an American Cinema Editors Eddie Award and the awards we're one of five nominees in the best documentary non-theatrical category best edited documentary category I'm just really proud at the end I I you know I supervised the editing process but at the end I also you know got into it myself and we had a fabulous team really all working as a team it's not like one editor cut episode one as it's as is typical in the other docuseries that every editor sort of cuts their own episode. With this we really felt like we're making a three hour film on a very short schedule. So we had to intertwine we had to let each editor cut one full story arc, one full character arc, and then start weaving them together and then kind of jump around and have each editor use their best skill set to contribute to either the tone or the look or the graph their graphic skills or their music editing skills or their dialogue editing skills. We really had to use this team which is Kevin Hebard, Mimi Wilcox and Martin Bean and then at the end we had Troy Takaki join us as well for the finishing and so the five of us are nominated and the award show is on March 3rd. So fingers crossed but it's just a real honor to be nominated by our peers for the work. As I said there were over a thousand hours of videos that with our support team like Jesse and Avery and Morgan and and of course Zoe and Kate are story and edit support team helped you know rummage through this pile of footage to find those jams that were most indicative of indicative of of the the most egregious moments of manipulation and indoctrination and criminal activity. So it's it wasn't easy. Nobody has enough time in their lifetime to watch a thousand hours we had to use artificial intelligence transcription tools and and all kinds of software to really figure out how to pull the jams out of the story and sometimes look at an hour of selected moments in order to pull the best five seconds, you know, and and what to show our interviewees when they're on set like Angie watching herself, you know, what would be that video that we're going to show that piece of 10 seconds that we're going to show her while she watching herself to get the right reaction of her watching herself years before while she's under the influence, you know, of this cult. And what are we going to show Dr. Adair to have him give a real analysis of whether this was the member's choice or a bound choice, you know, or a choice under coercion and really distill it down because Netflix were very adamant that we're not going to get more than three episodes, really distill all these stories down to help you understand the process of how you get in and further sucked in, how it's beautiful and attractive and fun at first, how that sense of community makes you stay in and double down and then how the financial and psychological and labor you know forced labor all that manipulation goes into really hijacking your brain. And so we were trying to track the evolution of this group and understand the psychological dynamics and all that takes a lot of work on the editors to really weave it correctly with combining the interviews and their covel footage and the photos and the and all the pieces of evidence to make a strong case while making you know edge of your seat watching experience. So I'm I'm really proud of what we accomplished and I hope our you know voting friends at American cinema editors acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well for me personally I actually have a favorite edit and that's and I think it's it is episode two. It's when I first talk about cutting my hair changing my pronouns name and then you switch to Angie saying exactly the same thing and we weren't in the same room I like to highlight that that we were not and Angie and I hadn't actually talked until the premiere so that says a lot. So even during filming Angie and I had no access to talking together and that's a huge part of evidence too because we said the same thing we didn't we didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00:

I hadn't been in nobody coordinated their version of the truth it was just the truth. Yeah there's there's power in numbers right there's power in numbers when you hear the same story and the same experience from a lot of people there's obviously something there right where there's smoke there's fire. Exactly just like the episode but yeah and I'm sure you felt validated that like to hear the same experience with by other people who went through very Similar journey. And so you're so lucky that you escaped and got out when you did because NG went much further down the path. And some people who are still in went even further.

SPEAKER_01:

So and those who are still in now are in way deeper in ways we're not seeing right now. That's just something to highlight that have been there longer than any of the ones that were in the docuseries.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, we pray every day for them to wake up and come out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, I'm so excited that you guys are up for that. And I think it's been beautifully edited. I know. Thank you. That's a lot of work to do editing, like just giving some one video up.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we've had arguments, like we had weekly calls and we would argue about a lot of scenes, whether they should stay in or stay out, it'll be re-edited. And you know, people would talk about their favorite moments and not so favorite moments. It was a lot of we had a very gender-inclusive team, and we wanted to hear everyone's voices and points of views, points of view about the material. It was, it was tricky. And it was we wanted to make sure we're not offending and we're telling it truthfully, and we're not saying that transgender is something that can be coerced or, you know, true trans people are can be manipulated into it, but still expose these tactics as being very, very dangerous. And so there was a fine line to walk. And we worked with GLAAD to make sure we we got it right and that we addressed the sensitivities, the particular sensitivities of this issue. I think it was very interesting. Like it was fun. It was kind of a challenge to go to work every day because you never knew what would come up and how we would have to craft the story to really get it right and to make sure we told it with the right respect and perspective. I I feel I from what I heard and from what I read, I feel like we hit the mark. And that was that was all those conver all those tough conversations were worth it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you definitely did a really good job. I think personally, just being part of the community in general. I can't speak for trans and I won't, but I will speak for just being in the community itself, that I feel it was really well done and handled very well, unlike some docuseries that go into that, don't always handle it so well. But this was handled very respectfully and with integrity and kindness too, honestly. Because I've never, in my personal experience working with filmmakers, I haven't always had a positive, I guess, experience. And even my mentor who worked with A-Listers didn't have the best experience. So it was kind of saying that. I'm so glad you feel this way. Yeah, it was a relief to be with you guys because you're human and you treat what your story that you're telling, that's a true story, which adds another layer that's pretty hard to do. Uh, you treat it with integrity, you treat every person with integrity and respect, and you respect everyone's time, which is very much appreciated too. Just my little two cents I wanted to add to everything you said. Thank you. Um anything else? No, I think we covered everything. If you want to say something, go for it.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. I just wanted to say, Jesse, thank you for being such an important and valuable part of the documentary, both in your presence on camera and what you provided us in terms of contact with other members and the evidence you found and the sensibility and sensitivity you brought to it and your time. I'm I'm really, really very, very grateful. And thank you for spending time with me this afternoon. Talking about talking about the process and the show. I hope it's it's interesting to people. It's educational, that's why I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm making sure it stays on the educational side. I told Zoe to keep in mind the audience she's talking to, she's educating. So any information that I missed in my questions, definitely bring it up. Okay. And you did that without me even telling you that. So that worked out well.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you know, I'm an I'm an editing teacher and an editing mentor. I love talking about editing. I think most people find it incredibly boring, but yeah, it's hard to produce a show, even a podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's just a YouTube thing since I'm not taking any of the audio right now. It's just YouTube with that. But I guess it's like a podcast because everyone keeps calling it a podcast. So we can treat it like that. But there will be debunking of me just alone on it, too. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you for making this time to talk to me. And I, you know, really had fun talking to you and geeking out about all of this behind-the-scenes stuff, and I hope to see you again soon.

SPEAKER_01:

Listening to voices, stories can be strange. It's good to open up to new stories and finding backstories of how people came to be, only to free the mind of what blinds us with only a glance, gives us a chance to see people be who they truly are, from silent voices to shining light. Stories that inspire awareness and change. I welcome you to Jesse's Stories, unheard voices, you can't get a lot of people.