Inside the Cult Documentary: A Producer Mike Untold Story

Mike Brilliant, field production coordinator for Netflix's "Escaping Twin Flames," shares behind-the-scenes stories from making the documentary. He discusses coordinating with producers, creating safe spaces for trauma survivors, and how people get drawn into cults through manipulation and isolation.

Music By: AJ Music Group

Lyrics SLAM Poetry By: Jessi Hersey

Artwork By: Zummi

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Listening to voices, stories can be strange. It's good to open up to new stories and finding backstories of how people came to be, only to free the mind of what blinds us with only a glance gives us a chance to see people be who they truly are, from silent voices to shining light. Stories that inspire awareness and change. I welcome you to Jesse's Stories, Unheard Voices.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

No problem. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

If you could let everyone know your role in Escaping Twin Flames on Netflix and what that entails in your job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So for those who don't know me, my name is Mike Brilliant on Escaping Twin Flames. I was the field production coordinator. And that job pretty much entails a lot of logistics and pretty much just making sure that everyone on set is not only happy and fed and hydrated, but um also uh every element that goes into the day is taken care of.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Thank you so much. That's really good to know. I guess my first question is who did you directly coordinate with in order to make the docuseries come to life? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

So I was I'm kind of an in-between of working with the producers and then the people in the office. So, so like for example, working with Morgan or Nadine or Cecilia Peck, essentially, you know, they'd tell us what who we're interviewing for the day, give us locations that they found, and then we would work with the office and getting PAs together. And then and in the office would be people like Dana Salvatore and Delaney Mason. And it was essentially just working between them and seeing what we needed on set and how we can get things going for the day. So a lot of back and forth, but I mean, in the end, it was definitely, definitely worth it.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

And then just for those that don't know what PA means, what does PA stand for?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Uh yes. PA is production assistance. So essentially the people who are trying to get into the industry and move up and figure out what to do or what they want to do in the industry, they get the opportunity to come on set and work with us and get a hands-on experience. So it's a job, it's hard work, but without production assistance, like the industry would not move, or at least on set.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I love production assistance, at least of the ones I've met.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

We had some great ones on Twin Flames. I mean, like literally while the show, like while we're doing interviews with you, there's so much going on in the background, and we would have great ones who would do runs for me, pick things up, make sure that everyone, you know, they'd go and get lunch and make sure that everyone's orders were correct. The small things are pretty big on set. So when we found the right ones and we started working with the right PAs, they definitely they definitely make a difference on set.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

And make things run smoothly too. At least I didn't, I don't know if I meant any of the PAs. Besides, doesn't Nadine cancel count as a PA or so Nadine is an associate producer.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

And so she's above a PA on the level of hierarchy in the world of production. So essentially what an associate producer does is she's assisting people like Morgan, who's the supervising producer, and Cecilia, who is the executive producer and director. So essentially what Nadine would be doing is keeping notes on set of the interviews that are happening so that way people like Zoe, who's the story producer, have notes. And when the footage comes in, typically Zoe would have almost like an email from Nadine that says everything we shot, what we talked about, some great moments. So a PA coming onto set, a lot of them are trying to become an AP. So that's kind of like the next step a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Oh, okay. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

But I don't think I met anyone that was PA unless they were so behind the scenes that you know, there's a chance that you did, but there's so much going on. I mean, from your perspective, you're coming into this circus that's like a television show, and there's so much going on, and on top of that, you when you sit down in the chair and you start talking, you're you're in you're in story world and there's so much going on. So it's hard to remember everyone on set. I mean, like, even with me who's on, I can be on a ton of different sets, remembering everyone is tough and everything that happens. So coming into it from your perspective, I think like it could be difficult just to remember everyone because I can't always do it. But yeah, I mean, a lot of times they're the people who are just kind of in the background making stuff happen that you don't even know about.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, that's honestly really good to know. I'm glad you gave a full reasoning for it. That's very helpful, honestly. Did you have opportunity to be a part of the research of Twin Flames Universe?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

So unfortunately, I was not. My role on this show was more logistical than creative. So I didn't have a chance to get into the research at all. But once I found out about working on the show and a little bit more about it and hearing about Twin Flames, I did my own research just to understand what it was coming into it. And I have to say, like the research you find online is never as interesting as it is hearing in person. So, like when I would hear, you know, your interviews or Keely's interviews or Angie and and what they went through. It definitely brings more perspective than just reading about it. I mean, I think that when I read about it online, there really wasn't that much at the time. I mean, it was before this aired.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, there was my articles too, that my entire story and case was a very isolated case. So I had stories that I got cease and desist that almost became part of the series. Almost. But I'm one of the isolated cases, which I'm sure there's more than just the one that was publicly made of a cease and desist by Jeff and Shillia, due to writing an article, yes, fully about them, but it was my personal experience. And that's for one, taking away the First Amendment from me. And then a second article, which was an educational piece about cults. And yes, I used some of my knowledge from being in a cult. And they did a defamation with me. That was the cease and desist due to defamation, but I had a really good lawyer in it. I hope I can put it in my memoir. I don't know yet. I had to check with the lawyer I had then, who was in 2020, to see if he's okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah. Well, you know, I think that, you know, them trying to silence you is it just kind of shows what they were doing and their their awareness of what they're doing is wrong. But when when I did like the research to just myself before I got on set, I definitely had a lot of questions about about twin flames because it was an interesting, it's an interesting topic. It was something I hadn't heard about before.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Did you ever get any of those questions answered? Because I can also answer some of them on the spot. I mean, I think I think I definitely did more so like when when I when I got a chance to talk to some of the survivors from the cult, it definitely answered some questions. I think the one thing that is always when it comes to cults, the one question I always have that I find is intriguing is like, how do you get into it? Right. And it's something that as I watched the series back after we finally edited it, but also talking with everyone, it's like, oh, it was like a series of events that happened over time that just kind of evolved. I'm kind of curious your story and how like you got involved with with twin flames and how like it just kind of kept going for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Well, for me, which is similar to actually Sarah Edmondson, I was in between jobs. So I didn't have a job at the time, and I was looking for answers. So it was a job from the place where it eventually becomes my twin flame, but at this time it was nothing, just this random person that I had a connection with and no answers to. And again, no job. I was in California. I was really sad. I wasn't lonely. Just want to put that out there because that stigma that has been put out there due to the Amazon series, because desperately seeking soulmate title. I definitely wasn't desperate. I wasn't looking for a relationship, I wasn't seeking anything outside of myself or anything. It was just the possibility of a friendship at that moment in time. That's it. Possibility of a friendship. And I first went on YouTube, and it wasn't Jeff and Chuya that I saw first. It was a card reader who calls her cell Pisces Intuition, which I will always say this. She doesn't support them today. And there are multiple accounts on YouTube of her, so you're not likely to find the exact one. I know which one is her, but she is not for them. She's just now a card reader, which there's nothing wrong with that. And she did like this whole card reading that I related to because the person at the time was a Taurus, Tauros, and I'm a Gemini. And the reading just felt relatable. So I emailed her because she had her email on her YouTube channel, and I asked her for just an individual card reading. And she hadn't gotten a website yet together. She does this later in time because I literally had her for six to seven months. We built a relationship before anything. And she's the first person I ever did the mirror exercise with, and the first person I ever got Jeff and Shlia's book, which led me to the forum. Um, so it wasn't, I didn't have Jeff and Shlia. They weren't the first thing that came to me. It was a card reader that came to me first. Well, I came to her first. And yeah, she never showed her identity. You can all even see on her YouTube channel still just her hands and that. But yeah, so it's just a card reader. You can literally join a cult with someone who's outside the cult that has nothing to do with cult, which I found out after getting into the cult that she had nothing to do with the cult. And she was never a coach. She was never anything. She was a coach before the coaches existed. She, yeah. So she was a person that had nothing to do with them yet was doing some services similar to them and was funneling them for only a year, and then she stopped. She didn't do it that long. But yeah, so it for me, it was the book first, then the forum, then watching the YouTube videos, then buying, well, after having my first coach, Angie, then buying life purpose class, twin flame ascension school, so on and so forth. But this was a slow process. It didn't happen within a day. It happened within a year before I was fully involved with them.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

That's really what it seems. Like from watching, watching back the documentary and all the episodes, like you can really see the evolution over time. So I think for me, watching that back after like piecing together all the interviews that we kind of did out of order, it just really showed the evolution of how you got like everyone got into it and then kind of kept it going for a while and was supporting it, and then realized that it after a certain point, it wasn't the group they originally joined for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

No, and they came off, like they didn't show their true colors until you were a coach. You'd get to see their true colors. Like when I became a coach after a year of being in there and selling their books in the forum and volunteering, doing so many things, a lot of things I did and unpaid. But after you do that for a year of just selling their books purely to friends, family, random strangers, people that are just joining the forum, then you're a coach, and then they don't hide some of their true colors at all anymore. And it's stuff you just have to mirror more. But there are levels as you go deeper and deeper in, and management is second to which I was in three or four management positions. That's like right before you've hit inner circle. So I could have made it there, but I never would have wanted to. So I'm glad I left when I did.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, congrats on that.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I like where this conversation is going. I'm gonna move to our next question, which is walk me through a typical day on set. So a typical day for you, whether that's on set or working with Dana, just a typical day.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

So typical day on set normally starts pretty early. I worked on all of the the New York shoots. So we'd wake up early, we'd have to get to the hotel where the crew was staying. A lot of the crew was and some of the producers were from LA. So when they were in New York, we'd go to their hotel, we'd make sure that everything was set up in the morning, making sure that crews were called on time. So get all the PAs there, get all the vehicles ready, breakfast, coffee, and then get everyone to set and make sure that they're there on time. So getting to set, it's all about loading in and making sure that we are set up before the interviewees even arrive. So usually that means making sure that there's parking close by for everyone or holding a spot in case, you know, sometimes we were in Brooklyn where it was hard to get a spot. So little details like that, making sure that every little step of the way, getting to set and getting set up and making sure that we're prepared for the day is literally my job. After that, it is making sure that anyone needs a hand loading in. So anything from getting the coolers in to helping camera get their gear in, or we had Jason Penza, who was our grip and gaffer for those shoots. So helping him get all the C stands in and everything, getting set up, getting lunch orders, and then making sure that any other little things that need to be done for the rest of the day are taken care of. After that, it's preparing for the next day, doing call sheets, productions or production reports, and then any little details for the next day, like maybe sometimes we need a prop or anything for the background. Normally I'd have to make sure that we get it the day before, and when we show up the next day and do everything all over again, it's just a continuous cycle and making sure everything's staying on time.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

That's good to know it's here. And my next question is did you have a favorite moment or moments on set or before production?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Some of my favorite moments on set usually just had to do with like meeting people, especially the survivors, and having just some moments of hanging out and normalcy. I think that when you get on to set, especially in these cold or true crime worlds, there's a lot of there's definitely a lot of trauma on set that we are always concerned about. And occasionally we just get to have fun. So like Arcelia would bring her tarot cards and we would, you know, she would do a reading with people or, you know, just hanging out at lunch. Honestly, those were those were my favorite moments on set when it was just kind of like, oh, we just kind of get to hang and talk and meet each other and and just get to know one another because we all come from different walks of life. But what I enjoy what I do for work is like I just get to meet people, and that's one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah. I personally enjoyed, at least when we had lunch, which mainly was pho. And someone ordered me a bunch of stuff. But I'm when I'm nervous, which I was, I don't eat as much. But Cephelia came and sat right next to me and she asked me about the Marshall Fires, and I showed her some pictures of my burnt house, and we talked for a little bit about that, though I still had the camera right in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So that's no at that point of it, the camera was definitely off. But ceiling booking has a way of talking to people. I mean, if you if you look at what she was able to do to create the documentary, she was able to, you know, reach out to everyone and work with them and make sure that they were always comfortable. And that was always the number one thing about this documentary. Just everyone being comfortable and sharing what they're comfortable to share. And that was a highlight of working on it, was just knowing that everyone, everyone was on board and comfortable and willing to tell a story.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yes, and she definitely did make it comfortable. Well, everyone did. Like Nadine was really supportive, even before anything. Yeah. Nadine and I talked a lot, a whole lot through text, through phone conversation. Morgan and I did too. And then Cecilia and I did too. And in ball probably it would go Nadine, Morgan, in ball, then Cecilia was the order of how much talking between everyone I had.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, the one thing that was great was I mean, everyone who worked on that show was so personable and easy and open to talk to. I mean, Morgan, Nadine, Zoe, Cecilia, Inball, like literally everyone on that crew was great, and we all still keep in touch to this day. Yes. Which is all, you know, you don't always get to work on shows where everyone's that cool and fun and like has so much personality. So I think once I started working on that show and within like the first day, I came into it a little later in the season than the other people like Morgan and and Nadine. But once I was on set with them the first day, I think we all clicked and realized like, all right, we're all in this together and definitely formed some friendships that I'm I'm glad I got a chance to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah, me too, honestly. And for me, at least personally, I have to have comfort humans. So in bull was a huge comfort human for me, same as Nadine and Morgan. And Cecilia too eventually became a huge one too. But sometimes I take processing time. So Cecilia took some processing time for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

You know, some that's how it works sometimes. But the the good thing is like once you especially once you're there and like you you know you have to be in front of the camera and start talking about it, you you see who's around you and you understand that like it's a safe space. And I think that that was always like the most important thing with all of us coming into it, is just knowing that it has to be a safe space because people are are talking about some very important moments in their life that that was not easy to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, that was very traumatizing and brought back PTSC. Honestly, all my interviews and everything else I still have, which helps ultimately for my memoir, but I still have a lot coming back up. And sometimes I purposely bring it back up by watching like a YouTube video or something just to see what memory will come, because there is a lot stuck in there that have just, I guess, been forgotten, but still exists in our memory due to the trauma that was involved. Because there was a lot of trauma there. All of us went through a lot of trauma and a lot of threats.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

I mean, like, I remember one of my first days on set was an interview with Angie in New York, and just hearing hearing like what she went through as she started to disassociate herself with Jeff and Shaleo and just how they treated her, and then like her her steps to finding a twin flame within the organization. It was there was so much that I was like, wow, like the a lot happened within a short amount of time with that with that cult. And it was definitely eye-opening. And I I was it's cool to see someone share something that that they went through that has so much trauma behind it. And I'm glad that I was able to to you know see some of that in person and and hear an uncut portion of her story and and see that raw video.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yes, thankfully you did. All right, here's the big one. Do you personally believe Jeff and Shlia are a danger to society?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I think they are. I think, in my opinion, I do think they are. I mean, when when they start manipulating people, I think that's where the line starts to get drawn. It it shows that there's there's been multiple people who have definitely been manipulated by them and not for the better. And it doesn't seem like it's really their their choice to do certain things. So the answer is yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

And I fully agree with that answer, just from my personal point of view. And even Dr. Lawleach, even though her degree is within sociology, that still is a branch of psychology. She, her bounded choice book, which I still need to read, goes more into kind of what cults do when they make it feel like, well, something I've actually said that will easily have this. You had so many threats against you to stay. So they threatened they'd come after you, which they did come after me. And they came after so many more that left later in time, and they came after like a year later, six months later. With me, it was only like three months later because of my articles. But no matter what, they follow through with that threat, and then they tell you pretty much you're choosing hell, you'll go bankrupt, you'll never have friends and family again because you lost them due to the cult, but they don't say that, but they say you're unhappy.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

You know, they they not only do they manipulate you, but they isolate you. They literally take all of your friends and your family away from you, and then they use it against you. And you know, those people who do that are are a danger to society because once you start losing people then like in your life, then it's just a slippery slope. Things can things can happen that's out of your control.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Yeah, and it's very controlling of them to try to control your life in the first place, just like the interview that's up on YouTube, which I highly recommend anyone watching. It's I don't remember which one. It's not strawberry shortcake, it's Dick Wolfe's YouTube that they have the interview from 2020 with Alice Hines. You can see how he has so much trouble just controlling the conversation and realizes he can't, and all he does is word salad after word salad after word salad because he can't control the reporter that is interviewing him ultimately. But yeah, I just thought of that example. But let's I guess the next question. Because I could talk about that forever. What is your favorite part of your job?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I kind of said it earlier. Oh yeah. Part of my job is just being able to meet people and hear stories. One thing that I love about production and what I do is I do something different every day. So each situation I go into is unique and there's always something to learn from it. So no matter what I'm going into, I always have an open mind and I love just getting people's perspective on things. And while I was like a coordinator on this, I normally produce other shows. So I go from like different genres to different shows, meet different people, do different things. And I just love the constant change and the constant stories that I get out of it.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I love that. And then if you're allowed to, do you have any projects you're working on right now that you're allowed to talk about? If not, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

So I have one show that currently just started airing. It is a new HGTV show called House Hunters All-Stars. It is a twist off of the, you know, hit series House Hunters. So I was on that last year, and then I've got some stuff coming up this year that I can't talk about just yet. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Well, my mom would love you. She loves HGTV. So I'm gonna let her know that just because I didn't know you did that. I just want to do that so I can glow out with her.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

So that's the only reason. I've done plenty of HGTV shows in my day. So yeah, lakefront bargain hunt renovation, beachfront bargain hunt renovation, battle on the beach, house hunters, island life. I've done so many different HG TV shows. That's it's usually what I go back to when I need a little bit of break and just hang out on the beach and hunt for houses.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

I like that. Well, I have actually watched House Hunters with my mom. That's probably the only HGTV show that I can sometimes watch through. It's just because of my attention span. It's not due to the content, it's my attention span.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

It's it's a formulaic show that's shot very nicely and has some, believe it or not, some good storytelling in it. So it's easy to watch and you know what you get when you're watching it. You're looking for three houses, you decide which one you want, and then at the end they reveal what it looks like. So it's always, you know, nothing like a formulaic show. My Instagram is fine. That's usually if anybody wants to find me. Okay. That's why I've got full confidence in you.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Thank you. I appreciate that. And thank you everyone for watching. If you like the contents, please like, subscribe, definitely subscribe, leave a comment below if you have any more questions for Mike or me or what you want to see for this channel and embrace your truth. Tell your story. Thanks so much for being here. Peace. If you're new to the podcast, thanks so much for being here. If you want to help make this a successful podcast, please leave um a review on whatever station you're listening to this on, whether it's Spotify or uh I can't think of all the names, please help spread the word and learn more about behind the scenes and so much more of the unheard voices. Thanks so much for being here. Till next week. Peace.