Tonya Simpson

In this episode of U of A Reads, award-winning author, educator and forensic anthropologist Tonya Simpson, '16 BSc (AU), '21 MA, discusses her acclaimed children's book, This Land Is a Lullaby. Inspired by a lullaby she wrote for her daughter, the book celebrates the beauty of the Prairies and Plains while exploring the deep connections between Indigenous children, their ancestors and the land. Tonya shares her journey into children's literature, the inspiration behind the story, and the importance of Indigenous knowledge, language and storytelling in fostering connection and understanding.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello, I'm the host of U of A Reads, Katie Yakim McFerris. Today we're joined by award-winning author, educator, and forensic anthropologist Tanya Simpson to discuss her acclaimed children's book, This Land Is a Lullaby. Beautifully illustrated with a side-by-side translation into Cree, the book invites young readers on a journey across the prairie landscape while celebrating indigenous languages, culture, and connection to the land. In this conversation, Tanya shares the inspiration behind the story, her experience writing for children, the collaborative process of working with an illustrator and translator, and how storytelling can help foster understanding, belonging, and reconciliation. Let's dive in. Tanya, welcome to U of A Reads. Let's start with your origin story. Can you tell us about your path to becoming a published author?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, certainly. I have always wanted to write, and I really have always been doing it in some capacity, just in various forms since I was young, like writing short stories or starting what I thought would become novels. But what's been consistent along the way has been poetry. And I think that's because I would tend to get a lot of these wandering kinds of thoughts or these phrases that would stick in my mind, and I would jot them down. So I think I've cleared most of them out because they were a little embarrassing from my teen years. But that has been, I think, the common thread. So I always knew that I wanted to write. And I think part of that came from my science background. You know, you spend some time in the sciences, you spend some time reading nonfiction and academia. And I think I lost a little bit of appreciation and faith in my own voice. Plus, I really didn't have any capacity for it during my undergrad and during my master's. But that changed a lot when my husband and I decided to start a family. So when I was pregnant with my son, I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was the hormones. I think part of it had to do with the fact that I had to come to terms with the realization that I would have to have my family and raise them on a land that was different than the land I grew up on. I always had this idea that I would live across from my parents, you know, it's two, uh, right. Um, it's two houses on one uh, you know, kind of farmstead, right? And during pregnancy, when I realized that just wasn't going to happen the way I thought it was, it became really important to me that I was able to pass on that deep love for home and that sense of connection and authenticity to my kids. And it just kind of happened, I think, very naturally through through writing. Um, I can't remember how far along I was with Todd, but I remember sitting down in my office at home one one evening and just writing by the lamplight. And that became uh yeah, it was the draft of um Forever Our Home. And that's that's really when it started to really become something. Um, now I I knew that that was a poem that I would hang in his nursery. I didn't think that I would end up doing anything with it, to be honest. Um, but after Todd arrived, I you know, you really spend a lot of time reading board books and children's books. Um and I was reading a lot of books by Orca to Todd, and I started following them on social media, and I thought, hey, you know, I think I could do some writing. Um, that's in line with what they're what they're putting out. Um, so I responded to an open submission and they took it, which was just absolutely blew my mind. Um, and I've been working with them ever since.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

And just to be clear, Orca is the the publisher of your of your books.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yes, Orca book publisher.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

So I have four books with them now. Amazing. That's incredible for an open submission first-time author to uh to be published. That's incredible. Congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Thank you. I was not expecting it.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

A good surprise. Um, and I mean you're you've kind of walked us through it a little bit, but why children's literature? And it sounds like you were speaking directly to um your brand new child um through what you were writing, but why was that the storytelling path that you wanted to pursue?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

You know, it's so funny that I found myself writing in in this space. It's really not something that ever occurred to me. Um, it's not something that I ever planned for. And like I always thought that I was going to be a novelist, right? I mean, it was just because you know, we see them everywhere. Everyone wants to write a novel. Um, but instead, I think this is an area that kind of found me. Starting a family really fostered my creativity. Um, because I think I uh I developed the sense of really strong lessons that I wanted to pass on. I, you know, I I think I found my voice and I realized that as a parent, a new parent, there were things that really mattered to me more than ever. And there were things that I really wanted my my son um and later my daughter to know. And so originally the writing for both of them was really just for them. Um, so it took off this pressure of okay, you have to write for this big audience, it has to be perfect for a market. It allowed me to just, well, it's funny because I thought I was writing for them, but I was actually writing for me because both of their drafts were produced when they were babies. So I think that I actually needed those stories, which is so funny in retrospect. They didn't realize it at the time, but I was looking for grounding. Um, so in putting some shape around uh these lessons, these these feelings, um needing to lean into something because I had my kids during like COVID, right? That time we were moving. Um, so I think I was looking for something steadying. Um, so turning into the land and uh communicating that to my kids, like it gave me purpose. Um, so I found it very easy to stay there because they were at the forefront of my mind, really.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

You know, it's really interesting you talking about finding your creativity, uh having small children, and that I think is the opposite for a lot of women in particular. Um, just you know, with newborns and sleep patterns and things like that, it can be challenging. For some people, it can be um inspirational, I guess. Um, so it's it's just interesting that you found um you found the creativity path and were able to pursue that on. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

It's it's so funny because um, you know, kids are their bottomless pit of of need, right? Um, they they constantly need you, but at the same time, they are filling your your cup in these other ways. Um, so I think that I was able to do that because I didn't really spend a lot of time trying to get back to um the old me, like the pre-mom me. I think I just leaned into this new journey and saw a lot of wonderment. Um, like just having a lot of joy in rediscovering the world, right? Because that's really what it what being a parent is or what it can be if you uh don't fight it, right? It's it's like getting a second chance at childhood vicariously. Um, it's it can be such a beautiful thing. So I think that's what really fueled my my creative capacity.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I mean, just being able to write a coherent sentence um is an accomplishment when you're sleep deprived. So I think that's incredible. But on top of all of that, you're also a forensic anthropologist. Uh, you're working as a researcher, educator, and a curator at the U of A, as well as a former research analyst with the RCMP, independent consultant, um, contributing to unidentified remains and missing persons cases across Alberta. So you move between worlds that that many people would see as really separate. Um, children's literature, forensic anthropology, education, and reconciliation work. What thread connects all of those parts of your life for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

For me, that's a that's a really good question. It's a very easy one for me. And that would be the circle of life, really. Um, so my family comes from Pasqua First Nation. And so that's on my Kokum side, and my Muslim side is from Samson. Um, my dad's Scottish, right? But what I'm trying to get at here is that I've had a lot of influence growing up with you know, aspects of Cree culture were somewhat removed from it, but it was always there. Um, discussions about spirituality, reincarnation, um, everything being connected to each other. So for me, I've never thought about life and death with a with dualism, right? I've always just seen energy in a constant flow. Um, so, but I do approach them differently, right? Um, I find when I'm writing for children, I want to put good things into the mind, right? You know, you've heard you've probably heard the saying, uh, child's brain is like jello, you've got to put good things in before it sets, right? Um, so I have a lot of fun doing that. Um, I have a lot of fun thinking about what I can do to inspire questions, right? Um, so because my relationship with my indigenous heritage, it's really about learning. Um, I'm trying to pass on a sense of curiosity, a sense of gratitude, a sense of uh relationality between humans and the world around us, right? So if you read my first two books closely, you'll see that the people in the books are they're observers, like the books aren't actually about people, right? Um, where they're really being reflective and meditative as people are moving through a space. Um so that's that's really important to me, you know, that I'm not uh telling people how to exist, you know, with with a culture, but just trying to say, you know, there is a lot of beauty in the energy around us, and we should lean into that and however um is appropriate to you. But it's funny because that actually came after my I had already um become a little bit entrenched in forensic work, right? So in my 20s, I went to grad school, studied to become a forensic anthropologist because I was really driven by, you know, social justice, um, wanting to bring closure to families. So I think a part of me has always wanted to do my part in, you know, inching the circle of life along. Um and I as I get older, I'm more aware that in our Western culture, we seem to outsource the ends of the life cycle. You know, yeah, and you know, a lot of it is out of need, a lot of it is out of um like families are stretched, right? Um, and as people are living longer, we need specialized care for our elders. So I think it's a recent separation that we have between birth, you know, and early life, and uh the end of the life cycle, right? Um, so so I don't think they're separate. I just think that we have we are starting to think that they're separate. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I think that's a really interesting um observation. Um I think, you know, those of us of a certain age who are those true sandwich generation people who still have vivid memories of the childbirth process, perhaps, and then are also, you know, living with or um helping aging parents, um, it's an interesting place to live.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yes, that's my mom right now. So she's taking care of my musom, and he is going to be like he's close to 90, right? And uh my cookum. But she also has six grandchildren who are six years and under. So for her, uh, you know, these things are all very, very connected, you know. And if you think about the medicine wheel, you know, the children and the elderly, they're directly across. There's a direct relationship, right? So, you know, and even in my family, I think about some of the stories we have with um my younger brother, who when he was three, was saying that he was Grandpa George, right? Um, so you know, we believe very deeply in um all of these things continuing.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. So I'd love to move into talking about your writing process. And you again, you've spoken a little bit on how you got back into it, but what does it look like today? What does your writing process look like today? Are you someone who is um productive with a set routine? You need that structure, or do you prefer to write a bit more intuitively when inspiration strikes?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

A little bit of both. I have to give myself a lot of grace because um, you know, I'm commuting. So I commute up from Pigeon Lake to the University of Alberta every probably four to four days a week. Um, so that does cut into how much time I can realistically uh sit down and be uh at my computer every day. Um, but I will say I do touch literature every single day. Um if I have not made time to create, I've been listening to audiobooks or, you know, I'm often on the uh CBC books, you know, kind of websites and things like that, um, trying to stay engaged with uh the different, like the magazines that are talking about, you know, writing craft and things like that. So I always make space for literature every day. Um, but on the days that I actually get to sit down and write, it's usually coming from a very intuitive space. Um, and I don't always have the capacity to be intuitive, right? Um, but I do notice that when I am spending time up and in nature, like when I'm actually uh walking my dog and trying to live closely with the seasons, I seem to be able to tap into those really lyrical, um, very evocative phrases that tend to guide my work, right? Um, and they usually are something that I'm starting with. And I say, oh, hey, there's something to that, right? Um, and then I follow those threads until they kind of dry up. And, you know, I'm not somebody who can outline a poem. It does not work for me. Um, but I will create these, like I will brainstorm and I will write just really beautiful words or beautiful phrases, and then I'll notice, okay, I think some of this is starting to get forced. It's time to quit. So I let it rest, close it, don't think about it, go about my day, and you know, try to get back into nature. Um, sometimes I notice that I get very creative when I'm listening to instrumental music when I'm walking in nature.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, I don't want the other words. I just need to um one, spend time living. I don't think that um I don't think that if I regimented my writing, I don't think it would be any better, to be honest. I especially because I sit at at work and I, you know, I'm writing all day. Um, so I don't think that regimenting the creative process would be very good for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

You described your writing as lyrical, and that's exactly how what I was feeling when I was reading uh This Land is a lullaby. It's just this beautiful um lyricism that runs throughout uh the the entire book and describing your process of being in nature and um you know really going with that as your inspiration and and with instrumental music, um, you know, I think music can be such uh a huge inspiration in so many ways, but to to take something that doesn't have the words and then you're able to put that into uh to the page, I think is really uh it's really interesting, really beautiful. When you sit down to write for children, uh do you approach the page differently than you would another genre?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Absolutely. Um there's even a difference between the two types of kid book kids' books that I have. So I'll talk about that first and then I'll compare it with some of the more uh recent work that I've been doing. For the more lyrical books, so Forever Our Home and This Land is a lullaby, those were very intuitive. Like I really needed to be, I guess, in a in a state of inspiration to do that. Um so nurturing that way of being was really important. Um, but the two more recent books that I've written, um, so they're if you make them with some tea or if you kiss a cookum, they're these indigenous takes on um or in and they're inspired by. Um have you ever read if you uh give a mouse a cookie? Okay, so um it's an indigenous take on that, but they're really meant to consider how do we engage and what's the importance of engaging um with aging grandparents, right? So, you know, thinking about the that that life cycle again. Um, but those are really okay, if you do this, what's gonna happen? What's the how how crazy and how adventurous can can this get? Um, so those books were really actually just inspired by watching my grandparents and my kids interact, but also following a familiar pattern of a really beloved story. Um, so that was really just getting into a bit of a chaotic child's brain and having fun with it. In terms of um, I guess in relation to the work that I'm doing now, I have a completed draft. It's a revised draft, it's in pretty good shape of a um literary, it's literary fiction. Uh so the title of this right now, it's called When We Were Lost. And it's a bit um Buildings Roman, um kind of a similar nature to um Stand by Me, the Goonies, like that kind of a thing. Yeah, young friends going on a on a bit of a quest, you know, it goes wrong, and formative friendships are are made um in the con in some very difficult contexts. Um that was a very different process. I remember waking up one morning and kind of in a little bit of a dream state, I said. Like I wasn't fully awake yet. I just felt a certain mood. And I was like, I need to put words around this mood. Like, and I think I was craving um or was feeling very nostalgic about, you know, this time where we're coming of age. And I wanted to put words around these friendships that always stay with you. Um, and when you're on the cusp of um childhood and where the world starts opening up to becoming a little bit more complex, I wanted to um stay in that moment for a while. So that writing process um basically involved I had a couple paragraphs where I started to draft out some characters. And I think it was important to round out the characters first because they need to lead the story. For me, it was more about what would these children do? How would they think? Um, but there were also some really key things that I wanted to happen. So I just started making uh a very rough um outline in Excel. So down one column, I had the characters I knew needed to be in there, and um, or and down the other column. So those were the chapters. So, okay, what are the key events? And I would just plug them in and it helped me to get a really good, efficient overview. And then I would just start writing a chapter at a time. And I actually wrote the last two pages first because I felt so drawn to that moment. I knew exactly how I wanted it to end, but I didn't know how I was gonna get there. Um, so I wrote those last two pages, and then I just wrote whatever scene, and it was usually a whole chapter, that resonated with me at the time because I have a very long drive and I would catch myself, okay, like I really want to spend time with this person. What's happening in their world? And I would write it down. And I jumped around a lot. So eventually it all, you know, got done. It took it took a little while, but I don't think that I could have written that from start to finish. I think it would have felt very daunting for me. I think I would have gotten bored. I think I would have stalled. Um but by staying with a person and kind of flitting around, I was able to stay inspired the entire time, actually, and then go through and think, okay, does this all make sense? And then start tweaking from there. So it's a little different than discovery writing because I had um some structure. I knew what was gonna happen. So I didn't have to do a huge overhaul. Um, but I was able to discover individuals.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I love me a good Excel spreadsheet that speaks to me in that's the first time I've heard an author talk about doing an Excel spreadsheet to kind of work out their thoughts, but that makes so much sense to my brain. So I love that you use that to sort out sort of this longer, more character-driven uh plot, which I if I was gonna write a book, now I'm like that might work.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Well, it's so good because it's literally okay, in chapter five, who's there? And you look, and and it's you know, you just look in the cells and you say, Okay, who's doing what in chapter five?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

I love that so much. Yeah, I'm gonna think about that for a while. Writing a book by Excel spreadsheet. I love it. Right. So that's so interesting, you know. You're you're shifting a little bit um for this manuscript. Um, but going back to your your children's work, how do you balance clarity and simplicity with sort of this emotional depth that you have in your in your books? How do you find that balance?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

That's a really good question. I had to sit and think with that one. And it's interesting to me that this kind of just came intuitively, but when I look back on it, um by really zeroing in on the senses and bringing all of the sounds, especially in this land as a lullaby, we're really thinking about the sounds. Um, so it's like the symphony of the world around us that's singing to this, to this baby, they're singing a welcome song. By when you bring in the senses, it's a universal experience that we all have, right? And we all relate to it differently. So thinking and putting a lot of um rich descriptors to those sounds, to those movements, to the colors, right? Like drawing, you know, words that come really come from an artistic palette. Um, I think it makes these very simple observational experiences very provocative for kids, right? And I mean that's highlighted by the illustrations, you know, just amazing work by Del Ray. Um, but as adults, we read in to those sensual experiences naturally, right? Um, we attach meaning to colors, we attach meaning to sounds, we we put those together. Um, and our brain is already making sense of that. So I think that it actually works quite easily, quite naturally, um, by just leaning into what the world is saying and trying to actually be a listener first. Um, so it's funny because, and I keep saying it's funny because you know, these things didn't actually occur to me until you asked me the question, but you know, going back and thinking about how some of these books came to be, they really are exercises in drawing the shape around an experience. So how you have to, and and that's how I think about poetry is how do I put words to this feeling in a way that somebody else can connect with it? Because there's something so intense, and I'm trying to communicate that, right? Um, and you have to listen first. Um, but if you are just communicating what you're hearing, it's all it is kind of like writing in forensics, right? Like you're um giving statements in a way and letting people relate to that in their own way. Um, so yeah, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah, absolutely. I really like that idea of drawing a shape around it. That's a great um visual and trying to take an experience and put it into words. I'd love to move into talking about uh This land is a lullaby. Um beautiful book. Uh the writing, but the illustrations, like you mentioned, are stunning. Um what first inspired this book? Um, and can you tell us? I mean, you've you've mentioned a little bit about your journey, journey writing, um, but this book specifically, can you tell us about um how it came to be?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

So by the time that I had Evelyn, I had already had a book accepted by Orca for Todd. So one is that I knew I had to write something for my daughter, too, right? So uh, and that's part of that that's an important thing to recognize is you know, the first one was not intended to be published. The second one I knew that I was writing to put it out there. Um, but this book really took shape in a time when that was very chaotic for me. Uh, we were moving. Um, so we were staying with my in-laws, and they have a really um beautiful farmstead. Um, but the times felt very precarious because you know, Evelyn was born during COVID. Um, so everything felt like it was in a state of flux. Um, I think I did have some postpartum as well that I was dealing with. And I think that I needed to feel grounded, right? It's it's it's always so interesting that we we think we are writing for our children, but we're actually just, you know, trying to get ourselves together for our children. Um, so because I didn't feel as stable as I wanted to, and I had this little babbling six-month-old beautiful baby girl. Um, who's she's babbling, she's cooing, and she just seems so oblivious to all of the stress that I was feeling. And she's just living in the moment. And this is, you know, late summer by the time that this uh came came to be. So, you know, you have the very dramatic storms, you have the vibrant colors, you have all the insects, you're at the it's like the all of life is there. It's so there. And again, you know, here's my daughter drawing attention to all of this beauty, all of this wonderment. Um, and because she she was a lyrical baby, she still is a very lyrical girl. I felt that I needed whatever I wrote for her, needed to match her her spirit. Um, and it's it's so wonderful that even the color palette, we've got those, you know, those indigos and those blues and um, you know, her her moss bag was those colors, you know, um, which is just so beautiful. Um, but I found that I really started leaning into the landscape when I when I was writing this for her. And yeah, that informed the shape of this entire book.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Was there a particular line or image or a specific moment in the book that came to you easily? Um almost like it was just waiting for you to write it.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yes. And it just so happens that it was the title. Yes. Um, I think that in being very reflexive at that time, and are very reflective, and just thinking about um, you know, all of the sounds and all of the senses. I have the line literally came to me as this land is a lullaby. And I got some chills, I got, you know, the goosebumps, and I said, wow, like that, there is something there. It is already there. I just have to find it. I need to follow that thread, I need to follow um all of these different sounds around me, and I think it will just be there. And I I did. So I just started capturing all the things that I was seeing in the landscape, all the things that were um really my favorite elements of, you know, uh a hot summer, right? And, you know, thinking about that um in in the context of ancestors and spirituality, and you know, well, having a new baby and trying to weave that together into something uh that really just felt uh, you know, deeply spiritual and full of gratitude. Um, so yeah, it all really started with the title, which has never happened for me before.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Children's books, children's literature, it can often be underestimated as an art form. Um, but it can really shape the way people see the world um from a very early age. Um, what responsibility do you feel when writing for children?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

The responsibility that I feel when I am creating for children has absolutely grown. Um before I had kids, I thought, okay, this is a way to um like this is a stepping stone towards becoming a novelist, right? Um, I don't know that I understood it for what it is, which is a serious art form in its own right. Um so one, you have this responsibility of um, you know, you're shaping the way that they see the world, you're helping shape the way that they see themselves. Um, but it's interesting because when you write for kids that are this young, you're also writing to the parent, right? Um it's you're creating, I see it, I approach it as trying to set the stage for a family experience that will hopefully lead into other conversations and you know, beautiful moments. Um, so that's that's important to me. Um, but I also think it's a a huge responsibility and a challenge because we have uh shorter attention spans. Kids already have short attention spans, but we're competing with screens, we're competing with media that is constantly uh pumped out and has a ton of um noise and a ton of um colours, right? So I have to think very deeply about um, you know, how do I convince young kids that this is important and that this matters and it's worth sitting for? And um, you know, make making space for in in your life, right? And you know, if I can, if my story can capture a little person's attention for, you know, uh how many minutes does it take? Maybe five minutes, uh, what am I gonna do with that five minutes, right? It better be effective. So it is it's a challenge, it's a responsibility. Um, but I think it's also just super fun. Um, and because my work is inspired by, you know, indigenous experiences, and you know, largely comes from uh my own relationship, which is, you know, about learning. Um it is so beautiful that I'm able to work with indigenous illustrators, translators who are helping to round this experience out for a family. That's yeah, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I love books when I'm reading to my kids, I love books that start a conversation. And I do feel like yours is is definitely one of those, um, and partly because of your beautiful writing, but right beside it, it's translated into Plains Cree. Um, and also these illustrations done in such a specific style. What was it like collaborating with the illustrator and the translator on this book? Because it does feel like a bit of a journey and an experience um all together, and that's three people working together to execute basically your vision. So, what is that like?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

You know, it's it's a very different experience than than you might imagine because it all emerges in a way that feels very um synchronous, right? Um, but we actually engage, we we all engage through the publisher. Okay. So, you know, initially I submit my manuscript, and when it's accepted, and the designer with the publisher um gets in touch with me and says, okay, so really what's your vision for the illustrations? What kind of you know, style are you thinking? And they might have some names that they're thinking of, right? And they typically will send me um a few different, uh, I think they call them storyboards, but compilations of um an illustrator's work, and they'll point out different things that they think would add to the story because that's you know, that's at least 50% of the story for kids, right? You can put in so many messages, um, you can put in an entire spirit with the with the words, right? It's it's so important to get it right. Um, so you know, I might add some names to to that list, and then we talk about who we think we should reach out, reach out to. So once that's decided, and if the illustrator has accepted, or whoever has, you know, chosen to take the the project on. Um, sorry, rather, I should say if they've accepted to take on the project. Um, there's some back and forth, right? But it all goes through Orca. So I am never working without Orca directly with the illustrator. The designer is really the one um keeping everything on check, right? And because they know the market. Um, they uh I might have a certain vision, but it might not be what resonates with readers, right? They have the experience um in determining how something should be emphasized and and what tends to work and what doesn't, right? Um, so it all goes through the the channels of of the publisher. Um so I didn't really have a lot of communication with Del Rey or you know any of the illustrators until after the book came out. So that's so interesting. It is so interesting, and the same for translation, they um reach out to the translator um or the Aboriginal uh literacy network and you know have that done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

That's a bit of an eye-opening um experience. It is. And have a third party to facilitate that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yeah. And you know what? I think even though it's so different than what writers might expect, I do think it's it's probably um it probably prevents a lot of heated discussions about visions and things like that, right? They they do moderate everything, but I mean, everybody that I work with has been so lovely, but I can certainly see where, you know, if if an author was particularly um, you know, impassioned in one direction and illustrator was firm in another, you know, that could be difficult.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Yes, definitely. It's nice to have the experts um mediate.

unknown 41:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Uh so have you had any conversations with young readers, parents, educators uh about this book in particular that have really stayed with you? Any feedback that has come to you that surprised you or um, you know, something that really stuck with you?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

I think the the first thing that comes to mind is when I did my very first um reading at a local library, and most of the people who came out were, you know, my age or older, um, but there was one very young boy, he must have been about seven, and he he had come up to me and said hello. And his grandmother said, you know what? He saw your poster when we were visiting at the library and said that you know he wanted to come and because he had read the book. So, you know, he was the the youngest person there, um, there because he wanted to be there, which is just so exciting. Like for for me, that's such a wonderful thing. And um it was so cute because I I did the reading and then I asked if there were any questions. And this little boy puts his hand up and he says, Um, can we have the cookies now? I just loved it so much. That is so perfect, right? Um, but it was that was a wonderful experience. And the the other child who was there, um, she's 11 and she had you know done some writing with her mom. And I I think the thing that stayed with me about that experience was I really saw my younger self in her. Um, just this desire to write, the desire to learn about your place in the world through writing. And she was just such a she was an inspiration to me. Like the thing that the things that this um young person is doing at that age, and you know, the fact that she wanted to come out and you know, hang out with me, that was just so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

That sounds lovely. I love that kids are the ones that are just gonna tell you the truth. I'm just I'm here for the cookies. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Uh so your books celebrate indigenous experiences in a way that really feels welcoming and and intimate. Uh, how do you approach writing for young readers while still carrying that deeper cultural meaning?

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Thank you. Um, that's a really good good question. I think for me, it's about um keeping it simple. And you know, I don't get into too many of the complexities of culture, uh, one because it's that's not for me to teach. Like I don't feel um confident that I'm I'm the person to do that. I really see myself as creating a bridge, you know, of of interest, right? For for someone and and sharing in that journey of learning together. Um you know, which is actually part of why it was important to me that these books were translated, because I did not grow up speaking Crete, right? But hey, why don't I write some books that I would love to learn Crete with, you know, alongside my family and other families. That's I think a really wonderful opportunity. But primarily I try to really just keep it simple and approach the text and the experience as observational, right? Like let's look really closely together. What do you notice? And isn't there something really special about this, right? So I feel like it's kind of dropping hints of significance and like let's all take time together to notice the extraordinary in the ordinary because I think that's a lot of what spirituality and culture is about. So I think I think that really makes it accessible.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Yeah yeah I like that now this land is a lullaby won the 2025 Governor General's literary award young people's literature illustrated books awards that often recognized that one book but they they definitely reflect the years of unseen work. What did that recognition mean to you personally?

SPEAKER_00 45:50

I think for me receiving the award one it was a huge surprise um but it was the signal to me that maybe I found some alignment right um and and that's that's big for me. I think my two biggest values are authenticity and connection and I try to weave those into my writing and the fact that it was chosen told me that that way of being um resonates with people and you know people people want to exist in in a space um and in a community that feels authentic um that is searching for something deeper. So it was it was lovely to learn that I'm not too sensitive. I always think like oh wow you know should I have been born at a different at a different time or you know I think a lot of us struggle with that right but you know I always find that I'm reaching out for connection and I'm reaching out for um you know something that feels real and to know that there's an entire community of people who um appreciate uh what I'm trying to to sketch out with with these words it just felt beautiful and I thought you know what I'm I'm supposed to be here exploring this and um you know I've just got to keep on keep on with it.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

It's gotta help with any kind of imposter syndrome you might have.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

You know what it's so funny because I you know realized that I had won the governor general's literary award and as part of that I was asked to write something like up to 700 words for CBC books they had partnered um with with an agency um so basically the winners of of the governor generals like gg books were were asked to put out some some pieces um and I was like okay well I'll I'll write some more poetry and I was like how did how do I do this? I wasn't writing it for for kids I thought okay this is my chance to you know reach a different audience right so I I actually did go back to the books Mary Oliver and you know Fiona Sampson and you know like I because it's funny well now I'm shifting audience and I have to rethink a little bit. So I still have imposter syndrome and you know what I hope it never goes away because that keeps me going back to the fundamentals and exploring new ways of doing it. Right. Like I think that I will always I I don't think I will ever feel like I'm an established writer. Like I don't think that will ever um come to fruition. I think that I will always just go through this process of becoming and I think that's for me that's like that's great.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Yeah. That's a such a positive take on that feeling um that it is an opportunity for constant education and learning and growth. Because I think normally there's such a negative connotation to imposter syndrome that like for some reason you're feeling like you don't belong but to look at it as more of an opportunity I think is a really wonderful positive way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Yeah yeah and I love a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

So across your work there's there's a recurring idea of restoring connections to the land to truth um community to one another do you see this as the heart of what you do yes absolutely and I I didn't put that together for a very long time and I think that I was always trying to find these little pockets of interest or these little pockets of interest just kind of grew um and I didn't know how they spoke to each other for a very long time.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

I thought that they didn't go together right you know thinking about children's literature and forensic work um even you know with my day job forensic work and curatorial um but now I'm finding that actually they intersect in so many ways that keep informing each other and at the center of it all is um these understandings of identity inheritance and you know what we're what we're going to do with all of that right and how we're going to come out of it together better. So I do think I I'm I'm very optimistic about um people and about community I think that individuals are so beautiful and I find as I am you know getting a little bit older that I am leaning into people so much more you know and together we're kind of looking for truth and looking for connection and you know what we can do to um just make this world somewhere where we we really want to be or at least our part of that world um where do we want to you know have our kids and raise our children and it's a really good space to be in like I have a really good circle with me right now. So we again we've talked a little bit about this already but what's next for you as an author you're looking at it um you've got a manuscript in the works already um that's where you're you're heading right now is towards um more fiction that's a great question um I don't think that I really have a compass needle that's set in any direction um but literary fiction is uh where I have found myself um the most recently so I've got this manuscript um when we were lost and I am working with a literary agent which is very exciting that's a new thing and um you know my my agent he he's reading it and he's like okay you know this is a really good story but there is a second story here with these characters and I think that you should sit with that and I went and had lunch and I was like wow like there is and I know what it is um you know he didn't tell me what it was but he's like I want to spend more time with these brothers that you have um there's there's something to be said here I don't know what but like you know just think about that and I had um lunch right after and during lunch I was like I know what this is like I 100% know what I'm going to do with this um and I think that's the beauty of when something is character driven. Yes you know rather than plot right um so I am starting to flesh that out I'm hoping to uh keep on that over summer and I am still writing poetry um hopefully I'll um collect those into some sort of a uh compilation or a collection and uh yeah but you know what I'm you know not to say that I'm done at all with with children's literature I don't really believe in writing for a genre I think that um whatever story is out there uh you you pursue it you write it and you send it off to where it needs to go um so I imagine that I'll probably circle back around absolutely so just to to wrap things up uh what do you hope readers carry with them after spending some time with uh with your books but specifically this land is a lullaby I really want readers to come away from reading the book uh with a sense of trust um with a sense of um maybe a little bit of a of a compass you know when if you're feeling lost if you're not feeling stable um or if you just need a sense of grounding um just turning into the the world around you especially um our ancestors and our our landscape sometimes you just need to be held for a little while and that's just the most beautiful thing I think it can be transformational um so just leaning into our our landscapes and you know also recognizing that uh the past isn't really the past you know our ancestors they're they're still with us in so many ways and they continue to um help us along and that's just such a beautiful thing it's so interesting that you speak the way that you write you have so many lovely turns of phrase that just pop right out of your mouth and and so that's been very enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

I feel like I've walked away with some lovely turns of phrase from you. Is there anything else that you'd like to share before we wrap up is there anything that we didn't talk about that you'd like to to bring up I think you know just to aspiring authors out there um I, you know, I just hope that they keep going with it.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

And you know what maybe writing isn't somebody's jam um but whatever you do that's creative, keep keep on with it because it's just the most uh incredible thing that you can do for yourself and for the people around you like you never know how what you make and what you put out in the world is going to affect someone right and um there's a lot of potential for you know these positive ripples through creativity.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

That was our chat with Tanya Simpson about her award-winning children's book This Land Is a Lullaby and the power of storytelling to connect readers to language culture community and the land from her work as a forensic anthropologist and educator to her writing for young audiences Tanya's approach highlights the many ways stories can foster understanding and create meaningful connections. If today's episode made you curious to explore this beautiful book for yourself we encourage you to pick up this land is a lullaby and spend some time connecting with the world around you. That's it for this episode of U of A Reads. Thank you so much Titania for joining us to explore more author talks, webinars and upcoming events visit us online at uab.ca slash alumni thanks for listening to U of A Reads Stories Behind the stories. If you like this episode consider subscribing sharing it with a friend or leaving us a review. We'll see you next time with more Stories Behind the stories