Imitating the Rabbi

In this episode of the Disciples Made Here podcast, Drew and Heather move into the third movement of the Disciples Diamond — Imitate. And it might be the most sobering and freeing part of the whole journey.
Someone is always watching. Our kids. Our coworkers. Our neighbors. The people we coach. The people we eat with. Whether we know it or not, whether we like it or not, they are following us as we follow Jesus. And that means who we are following matters just as much as who is following us.
Drew and Heather unpack what imitation actually looks like in real life — through arguments with your spouse, through a 16-year-old who steps in to pray when his parents can't, through a four-generation discipleship chain that started with Todd and ended up in Brayden's youth group. They also introduce one of the most clarifying distinctions in all of discipleship: inheritance is what you leave to someone. Legacy is what you leave in someone.
This episode is also an honest conversation about seasons, about the difference between natural imitation and intentional formation, and about why disciple making was never supposed to be impressive. It was always supposed to be dependent.
Imitation is natural. Formation has to be intentional.

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Reflection Questions

Who are the five people you spend the most time with? Are they pulling you closer to Jesus or further away?
What legacy are you leaving in the people around you, not to them, but in them?
Who in your life is already watching you that you could intentionally invite to follow as you follow Jesus?

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Connect With Disciples Made Here
Instagram   / disciplesmadehere 
Facebook   / disciplesmadehere 
Website https://disciplesmadehere.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hey guys, welcome back to the Disciples May Hear podcast with your host Drew Sodostrom and Heather Hudson.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Yeah, these last few episodes we have been talking about what we call the Discipleship Diamond. Um it's not a playbook, but more just really an observation of the way that Jesus lived his life and um just kind of a pathway that we see him model for us. So um basically uh he has called us to what we call the Great Commission to go live as sent ones, as disciples who are making disciples. Um and so it really helps the the whole point of all of this is to help us see our relationships and our spaces that we exist as the mission field for Jesus. So um I would recommend you guys go back and listen to really the last two episodes, um, really the last three. Yeah. Um, and that will give you a really good framework for us to continue on these next two episodes. But uh, we're gonna try and catch you up so you don't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Well, and again, if you're jumping in for the first time today, yes, it really is focusing on the ways of Jesus, not just the words of Jesus. So again, we're Bible thumpers, we love the words of Jesus, but we're also paying attention to how did he lead. Right. Uh coming from a seminary background and a Bible professor, we have a tendency at times, at least in my cultural context, to overteach and under-reach. And yet Jesus reached the nations and he sent us to go reach the nations. And so it's imperative we pay attention to how he did that. And that is the pathway that we call that disciples making diamond. And the first one is he was just paying attention to what the spirit told them to do. And so we call that praying and watching, right? That's what we said. Number one is identify. So if you're going from like home to first, that's identify who are the people, the places, the spaces that God put you in to be the living proof of the love and God. And then rounding first to second, last time we talked about steps. So we're praying, we're watching, and then we're taking a step. And that first step is invitation. Not inviting them to church, but inviting them to a relationship with you as you walk with Jesus, follow me as I follow him. And then today is that third step that can kind of feel intimidating and scary because it's imitation. Right. That people are gonna imitate us as we walk with Jesus. And so it does mean that we need to care about how we walk because someone's always watching and someone's always following. And so it's good to take inventory, uh, not just to your life, but who are you following? And so that question is just so real for me. Imitation, and and part of that's with my kids. We're gonna have Jen be a guest with us next week, my bride, and um, we see our strengths and our growth areas in our kids all the time. Totally. Because, and that's why we actually use spiritual parenting as a metaphor for disciple making, because we're raising men up, we're raising women up into maturehood in Christ. And so as we follow Abba Father, they're following us. Um, and that's that intimacy that happens when you say, follow me as I follow Jesus, even as a family.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah. Um, I think the parenting metaphor for it is just like it's just the most clear metaphor for it. Um, Jen, like you said, Jen's coming on next episode. So send us questions that you guys might have for parenting stuff. Um they're not experts, but they have three kids and they're doing a really good job. So um we will use those questions as we go forward. I'm gonna try and get her to come on somewhat regularly. A couple times. Because I love her. Yes. Um, but, anyways, um basically I like starting here when we talk about all of this stuff because um it is such a translatable metaphor. Um, but it's not, this isn't just like a pastor thing. I think that's more like where I always want these episodes to get to you guys, is like this isn't just a pastor thing or a ministry thing. This shows up in everybody's everyday life. Um, it's really clear to see when when you have kids because I mean, I can see my kids emulating me in all the good ways, all the bad ways, all like just they copy us. That's just what kids do. Um, they're watching how I react, how I talk to people, how I handle stress, how I talk about my day, all of these things. Um and I don't wake up thinking, like, oh, today I am a disciple. And you know, like it's just we're just living our life, and people are watching whether you really like it or not.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Um, and that's where if you're not a parent, this isn't just for parenting either. And that's kind of what we're trying to get to here as well is like people are following you, not just your kids, but just people, people who spend time with you, they're following you, and you're following people that you spend time with, even if you're not like thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And they're imitating you whether you know it or not or like it or not. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't. It's where like Paul, he's the one that used the spiritual parenting metaphor, not Drew as a dad, Paul just as a leader and a follower of Christ, right? Because that happens on a a three-year camping trip in the text and the gospels, but actually as a dad, it happens in an 18-year camping trip, like with my kids. And so that's the point is always recognizing and realizing that someone's with you, they're watching you, they're following you. Um, in fact, it was interesting. My son is in university now, he came home, he's doing a business degree. And so he came home from Biola with this article, and it was in his business class, and he just said, Dad, do you know that you are the sum of the five people you hang out with the most? Like who is with you is investing in you, and that reflects out of you. And I was like, even the secular business world, they understand this. And my hope is the church understands this too, so that we are being intentional with who we're following, who's investing in us, and how we're investing in others.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, and that concept is sobering and freeing. So it's kind of like uh it makes you ask, who am I becoming by who I'm around? And it's also freeing because you can kind of remember that like you don't have to have all the answers, you don't have to have it all figured out. It just starts with proximity. So you're gonna have that influence for anybody that you're in proximity and spending time presence with. Um but I think the thing that we all have to take honestly really seriously, that I I take really seriously, is like, who are who you who are you letting shape you? That's if you're not intentional about that, that can be honestly pretty serious.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

You're being discipled by social media, yeah, yeah, you're going to be able to do that. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

And then the other like side of that coin too is if we're saying that you are going to accidentally naturally become more like the things that you fill yourselves, fill your time with, then how much time am I spending with Jesus so that he can rub off on me more than you know, my best friend who is cool, but like not as cool as Jesus. Yep. So it's just all of that that really does make me think and just it feels important. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

So and as the Bible professor, like I always want to bring us back to that biblical mandate. Like, if you follow the gospels and you watch the ways Jesus taught, what he invited us into, which was that camping trip. It wasn't a classroom, it was a conversation over a period of time. Uh, you can just kind of walk through the book and see these very clear calls from Jesus, this pattern. First one is follow me, right? Your identity. That's where we started the podcast. Your identity. Uh learn from me, formation, even more than information, formation. Love like me, like this ethic of love. As the disciples walk with Jesus, they saw this on display, how he went to the person that was the outcast and the broken. He calls us to serve like him, he models this posture of humility. He's God, he's the king of kings, and yet he's washing our feet, literally and metaphorically. And then he does send us to go like him, to live out the mission. He sends us to suffer with him, that there's a cost, but it's worthwhile. He sends us to bear fruit like him, like there's a result. And I think all these patterns and the ways of Jesus are important for us to watch, to see, that it's not just believe in him, but it's become like him.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

And that is the core for me of the biblical mandate. That's the pattern of the gospels. That's the invitation to Jesus. Don't just do what I do, but be who I am. Yeah. Son of God, family of God. And that's where, like Jen, her favorite verse is Ephesians 5, 1, be an imitator of Christ. And that's why it's gonna be fun for me because God's used her to shape me and other men and women before me. And so for me, it's like when I was looking for a wife. Am I allowed to say that on a podcast? Like I was looking for a wife. I did, yeah. But when I was looking for a wife, I wanted two things. And I think I shared this to you guys a couple months ago, but I wanted a masseuse and I wanted someone that would push me to Jesus. And I did not get a masseuse. Oh, I didn't share that? Oh, well, I've shared it with other people. That's awkward. And so for me, uh, I didn't get a masseuse, but Jen makes me more like Jesus. That's what she wants for me. Um, it makes her a better bride, it makes her a better mom, makes me a better dad. And so that's the the mandate of Jesus is no, don't just believe, that's part of it, but become inside out. And so when I stepped into ministry, I knew that I was a rookie senior pastor. Like I knew I needed men to follow. I shared with you guys last week about Dave Talley and Todd, who these are guys that became my pastors. Um, that Paul was pastoring Timothy in leadership. And Paul says this to Timothy, I'm giving this to you so you give it to others so that others would see it. Like four generations of imitation is what starts to take place. And so we said this at the very beginning of the podcast. The best leaders are good followers. Why? Right. Because they're imitating who they're following, it's coming out of who they are.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, and I think this is actually where people start to kind of check out. Um, they hear follow someone. And and I think first and foremost, people say, like, oh, well, I don't have a mentor, like, I don't, that's not really a thing. Or they think, I'm not a pastor, so nobody's following me. Yep. Um short-sighted. And I think that's what we're trying to drill down on here is like, no, whether you know it or not, you're following somebody, whether it is the influencer on social media or the the news people or the coworkers or the family patterns that you grew up with, like they're all baked in. You can't avoid it to an extent. And so, you know, if you're not following, like, it's not, it's not if you're following, it's who you're following.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

And you might not even know. Like, I remember as an associate pastor, my pastor Todd, who's on staff now with us at the church I serve at, uh, people came up to me after one of the sermons, they're like, You sound just like Todd. And I was like, No, I don't. Like, he shrieks when he gets excited. And I listen to one of my sermons, I was like, oh crud. Now, over time that's changed, but that that's real. Like you look, act, walk, talk, and so who you follow, that's a big stinking deal.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, and there's a lot of, you know, we spend a lot of our lives on on online and on the internet. And honestly, you're listening to a podcast like this isn't really any different than that. Um, so yes, we want to disciple you right now to live more like Jesus. Um, but this can't just be like an online thing. You've got to like it, we'll always come back to relationship. Like that's what it always comes to.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

And it can start online and just can't stay online. Exactly. And there's spaces and places and seasons of ministry and seasons of discipling, like times I'm walking with men and then they go, they move away, or other times um that there's the seasons where people are investing in me and then they move away. But the big idea in every one of those seasons is be like Jesus. Uh in fact, Paul says it this way to the Church of Corinth. He says, be transformed into the image of God. Like you were made in the image of God, the fall affects that, but it also we're called back to it. So my hope, no matter what season I'm in, is that I and the people that are following me as I follow him start to look and love and be like Jesus. That's the goal of every season, to be, not just to do, but to be like Christ.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah. I have like a love hate, you know this. His wife, Jen, and I like hate the word seasons because, well, in my head, a season is like three months, like fall is three months. It should be over. Yeah. So if I'm in like a hard season and it lasts more than three months, I'm like, excuse me, this is unacceptable. Um, but I'm impatient, so that's another problem. Um, but okay, I can see where seasons here can be helpful because it does kind of release you to not always have everything dialed. So it's like, okay, in this season, I'm, you know, I have access to this person and I can influence in this way, but that's gonna ebb and flow all the time. Is it volleyball season? Is it wrestling? Like it there's just all these like literal seasons. So you don't have to be um, I think sometimes, at least for me, I think so black and white that I'm like, I'm gonna invest in this person, and then and then sometimes naturally it kind of like flows out of that. And and I want to like grip onto that, but it's like, no, then God's just bringing somebody else into my more proximity. So um I think as much as I hate the word seasons, we can like relax into that fact that like it's gonna ebb and flow, and like that's okay. It's freeing.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah, yeah. And the key I think is just that we don't give up, we don't quit. Yeah, we stay locked in. Like where we're locked in till death do us part, or really till death unite us again is with Jesus, right? That's who we're following. Yeah. And the people are following with us in different seasons, like you said, whether it's sports seasons, geographical seasons, relational seasons, uh, someone's mentoring in my walk with my bride, someone's mentoring in my walk as a preacher. And sometimes you do have people like Todd, who's walked with me for like 20 years. Um but there's always the opportunity to invite someone to follow you as you follow Jesus. And it's important you know who you're following. Uh, it's important that you pray for them. Like if you're listening right now, like pray for your pastor, pray for your mentor, pray for your discipler, pray for your dad, your mom, whoever it is that you're walking with. Uh, the reason I say that is because as a pastor, it does feel like you talk about social media and part of our passion that discipleship can start but not stay online, is it feels like every day a social media pastor falls. And that's like a regular rhythm. And it's important that we know we're following Jesus, not them. But that's why Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ. If I, Paul or I Drew, or I Heather ever stopped following Christ, please don't follow me ever. I'm not excusing sin, I'm not saying it's no big deal, it's a huge deal. I'm desperate, I'm dependent, I'm broken, but I am praying for the people that I follow. So I pray for like Todd and Rick and other pastors of my life regularly. And it's why the author Hebrews says, hey, remember who you're following. Like, pay attention to the leaders of your faith, pay attention to their life, imitate their faith. So this word imitate, it's scary on one level to be like, wait, they're imitating me. Right. I better be following Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

That's the point.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Otherwise, that's where Paul says, I'm a chief sinner. Right. Um, and yet Paul also tells a church of Philippi, join in imitating me as I imitate Christ.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

You have to have that second piece though, as I imitate Christ. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

My grandma, Gene, used to hate, she'd say, like, Paul's so arrogant. I'm like, grandma, he's not. He says he's the chief sinner, right? Like he's not arrogant. But she struggled with this idea of like, follow me, and she like missed the last part as I follow Christ. Right. So again, whether it's the letter to Philippi, 1 Timothy 1.15, Christ Jesus came to the world to save sinners of which I am the foremost. Yeah. Right. And so my wife doesn't like this, but she's not on this podcast, so I can say it. But um that Drew rhymes with Pooh, right? She's true. And she hates that. She's like, but I want to be attracted to you. And I'm like, I want you to be attracted to me, but at a core level, I just know that I'm a sinner saved by grace, a saint who still struggles with sin. And so when Paul tells the Corinth, imitate me as I am imitating Christ. But the the key here, as we talk about imitation and the diamond, is make sure you're paying attention to who you're following.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Um, make sure that they're happy in Jesus. Yeah. Like I want you to be happier tomorrow than you are today. That's why I want you to follow Jesus. Yeah. Uh, whether it be in your marriage or as a father or as a son, like people who are happy in Christ, like that leaks to the people around them. It does. It's infectious. And it's what Jesus designed us for. More joy in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, totally. And this lands for me in a lot of different ways. I notice myself so much if I'm spending time with people who are really anxious. I just become a little more anxious if I'm around cynical people. I'm I you I can't help it. Like it just, yeah, it just catches on.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Um, and so I do try really hard to prioritize that and make the a good point of like who I surround myself with. Um, because it is so palpable to me, like what it the effects of it. Um, and you know, I can see on the other side, those were kind of negative things on the other side of that coin when I'm around godly people, it does it just starts to make my walk with Jesus that much sturdier, easier, just like more aligned.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Amen. Yeah. And it's interesting because even as a spiritual father, not just to my kids, but as a pastor, as a neighbor, as a friend, as a coach, yeah. Um, I think a key principle here, and I heard it forever ago, I don't know who from, but that inheritance is what you leave to somebody. So if I pass away, I'm like leaving you my inheritance. Okay. But a legacy is what you leave in somebody.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

And so as a disciple of Jesus, I'm following him. What I pray I leave in Wes or Braden or Benson or any of the brothers in my life, yeah, is a is a legacy of joy in Jesus. Right. It's a legacy of there is no bad news in the kingdom. There are no setbacks, it's only setups, there are no obstacles, only opportunities. And everyone laughs at me, but I'm like, this is my muscle memory. This is the Bible come alive in my head and actually saturated my heart. I want to leave a legacy of who Jesus is.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, legacy is like a scary word that feels really big. And so when we talk, we've had these conversations a lot just over the years of like, what does that mean? And the legacy really just is like, it's really built off the like small moments, right? So, like again, going back to our kids, like the you know, when I'm having a really hard time with something, what am I doing about that? That's the legacy I'm leaving for them, believing in them. Yes. And you know, it's the that iteration so many times of like um that they're watching, lots of people are watching, and how how am I handling life essentially with Jesus?

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I just want to be abiding in the spirit so that I'm like caught up in the flow of following the spirit. Yeah. And then as that happens, if anyone's following me, like it's almost like you're in the draft, you're in the wake of the spirit and you're just walking with him and keep the focus on Jesus too.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Because again, it can't come back to me just being better. No, like it has to come like I'm not. I'm going to fail. Always. I'm always desperate, I'm dependent.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

So when we say imitate, just make sure you're hearing us, like what we're saying is people are imitating. Yeah. What we're saying is pay attention to not just the words of Jesus, but the ways. And the way that he'd made disciples was not through teaching, it was through following. It was vision as caught, not just taught. And so, in fact, this just happened about a week ago. Jen and I were having a heated conversation, it was a straight-up argument. Like, um, and we were fighting, and we have always tried to balance out like when is it appropriate to fight in front of your kids and when is it not? And we need to model for them what reconciliation looks like and brokenness. And I give my kids way more of an opportunity to see brokenness than my bride, and that's okay. Um, but little Andrew's in here, and there was a moment in our discussion, uh, our heated discussion, our fight, um, where I'm like, I know we need to pray. I I know that, I know that's the right answer. Uh Jenna didn't say it, but I could see it on her face. She's like, it's time for you to pray. Right. And I'm like, okay. And then it was fascinating. Carson comes over and says, Hey, let's pray. And I was like, dude, that was a legacy moment for me. Yeah, yeah. That was like the most humbling. I'm gonna like get emotional just thinking about it. Like, uh in every fight, you're both wrong, and I'm sure I was more wrong. But like, what was right in the moment is that my son, 16-year-old son, had seen a model that says, Hey, when we're off, there was enough times where you solved it that way and leaned in in that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And so, like, neither Jen or I were in a spot where like we could pray per se. And so Carson's like, I got you, I'm praying. And it was just the coolest thing. I'm getting my like goosebumps right now because it's like that's what that's the legacy I want to have for my kids. Prayer is the work. Yeah, it's not just that's not a sermon phrase, right? That's our life on display.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, we've had not similar experiences like that, but experiences where I am aware of like where we're at in in the process with our kids. Like my daughter's dealing with some tough stuff, just sports stuff, and um, and her just kind of floundering and me kind of trying to ask, like, you know, where are we bringing this to Jesus and out? What, you know, whatnot. And that just watching her need still need me to walk her through that part of it. Her, like one of her responses is like, I don't have time. And I was like, oh man, like, you know, like that before. Yeah, like we're you know, we're just yeah, we're just in that process. So it's cool to, it's great to see the fruit. That is like the most encouraging thing. Um, but a lot of times it's just being in the middle of it and being in in the walk with our kids and our friends and our, you know, and letting it be messy.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

And as long as you're saying, follow me as I follow Jesus, that's all it is. And so I can be quick to repent. And I think that that's something I want. When we talk about imitating Christ, it means like be covered with the dust of your rabbi. When I think of Ephesians 5, 1, Jen's life verse, when I think of my ministry life verse, which is 2 Timothy 2, 2, where Paul says, again, I entrust to you so you can entrust others because others are gonna follow them. Like you have to have a bigger picture, and it's not just the grandiose events like you're talking about, it's those little micro moments that stack up. And so kids are easy, but it's not just your kids that are watching, your coworkers are watching, your neighbors are watching. Um I just got out of a meeting with CSD, CSD's watching, right? Like everybody's watching, and so the kids get this front row seat. And I've even joked with my kids that someday I'm I think I'm gonna get quoted by my grandkids. So, like Carson's kids, as an example. Someday I can imagine them quoting me, but not knowing it's me. And I don't care because I hopefully I'm quoting Jesus, right? So it's just I'm not the hero. Um, and so that's why again, we're really focused on how does this look, not just for me, but for you as the listener, for you as Heather and West. Like, what does this look like?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, yeah. And how does that play out in real time? Like, um, we have to get to this place where we think about like, okay, what does this look like? How do I actually do this? Um, because because again, it comes back. I'm not a pastor, I'm not a Bible scholar, I'm not, I'm I have a million more questions than I have answers. Um, but I am also placed by God into certain spots that only I get access to. So, like my kids, a lot of my family. Friends, like a lot of people in my life, I'm the main access thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

They don't care what your pastor says, you actually are their pastor.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Right. And so it's really easy for people to be like, well, you went to school for this. Like you're a pastor. I'm not. But you've said it forever, and it it is, it's real. Like you, but I am a pastor in in a lot of ways. Um and so how do I repent when I do screw up? How do I, how do I try not to mess up, but also surrender because I'm going to keep so it's just like that chicken or the egg, it goes around and around. Um but basically, how am I living in such a way that the people around me want to ask me questions and want to end up looking a little bit more? And I love it.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

I still remember when you came on staff here at Vintage and it was kind of one of your concerns leaving a mission field of nursing, because that's a huge mission field. And you didn't have to leave it to do missions.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

But you were like, but if I am called into this right now for this season, right? Yeah. Um, then how am I gonna find those opportunities? I'm like, oh, they're there. Like you don't know. But I was worried about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Because I spent a lot of time with people who didn't have a lot of access, a lot of time with Jesus. And so that was something I took seriously. And I came here like, wait, now everybody I work with, everybody I spend all day with, they already know Jesus, they already love Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

But of course that's But you gotta be intentional when you go to the coffee shop, when you go to the grocery store, when you see that pray watch list overlap, um you're paying attention to saying, Okay, God, I'm trusting you in this conversation, and I'm trusting you with big things and little things. Like I've seen it played out in my life where, like Todd, I've talked about, he's modeled things for me. Uh, and then I get to model it for others. Like I lead people through a desiring God group. Um, I've led hundreds of men through this process.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

It's a desiring God's a book by John Piper. So he walks.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah, we just read the book. It's like a book club. It's like a book club. Men you can do book clubs too. Um, but it's like a book club, uh, and it's about the affections of your heart, not just information, but affections. Right. Um, and so I walked Michael Dacey through it, our current teaching pastor, a decade ago. Yeah. And he walked Jake Man Freddy through it seven years later. Yes. And then he's walked with my son Braden. And there have been times Braden comes home from youth group. This was you know, three or four years ago, and he's like, Dad, you'll never believe blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, Yes, I'll believe it. Yeah, I said that, and he has no clue because Jake probably doesn't have a clue. And Daisy probably forgot. Exactly. I don't even care. What I care is that's the legacy that actually started with Todd, not with me. I didn't start with Todd. Todd's quoting Piper, who's actually quoting Jonathan Edwards, who's hopefully just quoting Jesus. And I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the encouraging part about all of this is like you don't have to force it, you don't have to manufacture it, because when it all comes back down, like God's the one doing all of it, all the multiplying. Yeah. And so we can just be, we can just have fun in the process of it and not have the like stress of making it happen.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

And it is fun to like look back over years and see that in church, in family.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, the good stuff, the bad stuff, all of it. Like you can kind of look at the journey, right? Like the longer you've been on it, the easier it is to see that. Um, and instead of letting it like become pressure, you can just kind of let it um drive you just back to Jesus, just back to Jesus, and then it's less stressful.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Disciple making isn't supposed to be impressive, it's supposed to be dependent, desperate, dependent. Like imitation is natural. We see it in our kids, we see it in each other, we see it in myself as a leader, looking like the guys I follow. So imitation's natural, but formation has to be intentional. And so we kind of go in every day praying that prayer, God, what are you inviting me into? Because I want to be intentional with whatever you put before me. Like you've gone before me, you're with me. Um, and again, the people I'm hanging out with are shaping me. And we say our one is our one for a reason because there's more joy in him. And intentional doesn't have to be complicated, it doesn't have to be confusing. It can just be as simple as, hey, come with me, let's do this together. Um, let me show you what following Jesus looks like as a mom, as a dad, as a coach, as a neighbor, really just simply as a son and a daughter who's also sent one.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, and people, I do really believe that people want that. People want to feel like they have purpose, people want to feel like their life is for something. Um, and and we're we're does we're designed to want to be invited into that meaningful thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Yeah. No, it's beautiful. And that invitation is someone saying, I see this in you, or hey, I I saw this, and we've talked about this a lot at Disciples Made here, where it's like there's a lot of people who say, I don't have someone I'm following. So please do send us those DMs, send us those emails. We'd love to connect with a local church. There's great local churches all over the country with pastors and leaders and everyday missionaries, but also everyday disciple making. And it takes someone to say, Hey, I I see this in you, come do this with me. And so I remember uh one of my my now buddies, but at the time, he just found me through like a website, like a wedding website. His name was Rory. Yeah, I found that. And he didn't he didn't trust the treasurer Jesus yet, but he wanted a pastor, and so that's how he found me. But that could just be like you're a painter, a contractor, someone finds you, yeah, and then you start to say, Okay, God, what are you inviting me into with Rory? So Rory's this young man, and in in my role, we do premarital counseling, we talk about you know, what does it mean to be a spiritual leader, not just a leader in a household. Uh, and he really kind of comes to faith through this process. It was rad. And so I do his wedding because that's what they asked me to do. I provide the quote unquote services, but I want to give him so much more. I want to give him Jesus. And so all of a sudden we grow in our relationship. He gives his life to Christ and got to be a part of their baptisms. Um, and then all of a sudden, he has no kids. I have little kids, I'm coaching little league baseball. No one's discipled Rory, but God put him in my life and I'm like, hey, Rory, you want to coach baseball with me? And most guys, if they don't have kids, they're they have other things to do. But I was like, this isn't about baseball, Rory. Right. This is about you watching me imperfectly coach in proximity. And he loved baseball. So I wasn't asking him to do something that was like twisting his arm. Yeah, okay. Like he was a baseball guy.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

So there was an easy connection there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

And I'm like, hey, I want to walk with you as you walk with Jesus, so why don't you walk with me as I walk with Jesus? And sometimes you should share the why behind the what. Yeah. Right? Like, Rory, I want to do this so that you get a picture, and it won't always be a good one. Right. Like when the coach is questioning the umpire, not that I would have ever done that, or things like that, right? It's it's imperative that he gets to know my brokenness, but also that God's a hero and that God is restoring and that he is is doing a work in my life. And that's part of next week's episode of Innovate that we'll get to in a couple weeks, where it's like, this is really, really fun.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Um, where they get to live this out now.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah, and I think the Rory example is cool because it just kind of it started super organically, and you just kind of took advantage of that opportunity. Um, but he didn't sign up to be like a leader or I want to come, you know, be a pastor, so I'm gonna follow you, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:43

But now he coaches Little League a decade later, right? And he coaches as a missionary.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Because he saw it.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Right. And so it it flows through that, but it's not, yeah, it's just more transferable that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

And and it's not about pastoring, but it's about disciple making. Exactly. And yet he is now the pastor of his baseball team. Like, how cool to think about that. I'm bringing the image of God into my space, the spirit's flowing out of me to all these kids. Yeah. That's huge. And so, really, as we land the plan today, we just want to ask two questions. The first one is this who are you following? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Right?

SPEAKER_02 29:11

It's imperative to go, okay, who are those five people? If the New York Times is right that we're the sum of these five people, who are they? Hopefully, Jesus is number one, but who are those five that are following Jesus as I follow them? And then who are you pouring into? And are you inviting people into your journey with Jesus because they are gonna imitate you?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, and this is like so important. Just like don't overthink it. You don't have to overthink it.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

You don't have to um manufacture all these opportunities, they're already there. Amen. Um, and so who do you already spend time with? Who do you already text and talk to and spend just organic time together with? Yeah. Who already shows up?

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Start praying and watching that they would see their identity in Christ, that they would see your identity in Christ because that's what they're gonna start to follow with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then um also know that you know you're you're not we're not supposed to do this alone. This is supposed to be there, they always did things in groups in the Bible. And so, like, we're supposed to be doing this as a group. And also, I think this one, like, don't wait until you feel like you have it all together. Yep, because you'll never you'll never like that. Um it's really just we just get to keep pointing back to Jesus and then pressure's off.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yep. And thank you. Thank you for following with us, for journeying alongside us. Uh, really, the call to action is keep doing the same things you're doing, but do it intentionally. Do it with your head on a swivel, praying, watching, stepping, recognizing that as you follow Jesus, people are following you as you follow him.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, and when you do feel stuck or awkward or uncomfortable or something, like we really do want you to send us DMs and we can talk through this and we can use some of this to to bring on to the podcast and talk things through further. So it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

In a couple weeks, we're gonna start journeying as a podcast community through our 21-day challenge.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah. So essentially what that is is um we made it a long time ago. Over five years ago, yeah. Um, but it's basically like a little spiral-bound notebook journal thing. You can get it on Amazon, it's like nine, ten bucks. Um, but it's essentially like a three-week kind of walk through all the things we've been talking about. Um, so you can order that, but also we're that's not really why we're doing all of this. So we're gonna put a digital copy um on the show notes. Yeah, I believe. Um, and so you can download it, print it out though, because there it's like a workbook style thing. So, anyways, we're gonna start going through that, not next episode, but after that. Um, and I think it's just a really practical uh way to kind of consolidate all the stuff that we've been talking about.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

And like you said, for you coming to faith, growing in your faith, we want you to be invested in eternal things. That's Jesus' design. Yeah. And so the 21-day challenge is to say, hey, God's got a call on your life, son, daughter, sent, deployed. Like, so let's live into that. Right. And so again, we we started this episode talking about over teaching and under-reaching. Uh, we're not looking for head knowledge, we're looking for transformation of the heart. This for both of us, as a son, as a daughter, as a mother, as a father, as as the leaders of the places that you live, work, and play. And so I and I love Bible school, so I don't ever want to be misunderstood. I'm a teacher, a professor. Um, and so for me, I want to teach. I just don't want to stay in the classroom. I want it to go beyond. I want it to go to the ball field. I want us to understand that discipleship is caught, not taught, that it is the model, the ways of Jesus was that three year camping trip. Um, so you're doing it right now. Uh, and so disciples made here community, thank you. Don't stop. Keep living, loving, and looking like Jesus because you are actually making disciples wherever you live, work, and play.