What is Spiritual Formation?

What is spiritual formation in the context of our daily lives? In this episode, we dive into the heart of missional living and explore why the choice isn't evangelism or discipleship—it’s both. We discuss the cost of discipleship by looking at our own "R1" relationship with Christ. Whether you're focused on outreach at work or discipleship in your home, learn how to move from "autopilot" to intentional presence.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hey guys, welcome back to the Disciples Made Here podcast with Drew Soderstrom and Heather Hodson. If you've been with us, we've been walking through this 21-day challenge. It's this workbook you can get online about what does it look like for you and I to really be able to say to others, to ourselves, to each other, the disciples are made here where I live, work, and play. And so before we dive into week three, I just want to pause and look back a little bit at week two, which was we moved from identify to invite. And so Rick joined me. And again, what a gift for me as a pastor, as a son of God, to follow him as one of my pastors, as a son of God. Um, and just remembering that as we follow people, as we step into week three, which is imitate, that the first thing that we have to focus on then is my R1, my following Jesus, because other people are following me. So I receive my R1 and then I reflect that to others.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Yeah. So if you went through this and you made the invite, like that's a big deal. It is. And I think that like even if it was a small invite or you know, it was just a text, or even if nothing really happened out of it, I think that's a big one. Like that step still matters. Um and a lot of people stay stuck in like the intention stage of it of like, I want to do this and I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. But if you actually moved forward in any tiny way, like that's a it's a really big deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah. And that's why, as silly as it sounds, like, these stickers for me are really important on the back of our phones, on our mugs.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

They say, God, what are you inviting me into?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

And it's this idea of like, no, there is something. And so even when you're like send the text is a big deal. Yeah, when the spirit of God has prompt you to send a text, I'm like, I'll do it later, which means I'll forget. Or I don't want to, and I'm afraid of the invite. But like, no, make the invite. Invite them. And I often joke like it at big church that we will typically invite people to Christmas and Easter. The other 50 weeks of the year, we're more focused on training you as everyday missionaries, but two Sundays a year we do that. And so I encourage people if you don't invite them to this Easter, then they're not gonna come to next Christmas. Like, if you invite them to Easter, they're coming to next Christmas. If you invite them to Christmas, come next Easter. I think Satan wants us to kick the can down the road of the invite. Like he doesn't want us to make that first invite because that's what leads to future conversations and relationship. And so remember, he's the Lord of the harvest. Like, so we're learning to listen to his voice as we're praying and watching and then actually respond. Like, what is that step? And invite is the step, but we're inviting them to be with us to imitate us.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of the cool thing about this this week was like it's not just in about inviting your one somewhere, yeah, but it's uh it's really about like inviting God into all of this more. He's already there, obviously, but like in your own brain, like inviting him into it more. Um, and then that increases your awareness and so on and so forth. And like, God, what are you inviting me into today? It just changes the way you walk into work, into the gym, into whatever. And so, like, praying that prayer has power.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah, and we're just trying to train you to be spirit-filled, listening to his voice, uh, recognizing that discipleship is not taught, although we teach it, but it's caught and it's caught in relationship. Exactly. Relationship increases in proximity. So, how do we be intentional in our different places and spaces? Um, because when someone's with us, they see us, they see what we value, they see what we love, they see what we hate, uh, they see how we respond to pressure, they see how we repent and how we rest and how we forgive and live. Like I've often joked with Jen, and you've seen us fight, and our kids have seen us fight. Like I often said, sometimes I wonder if we're like too transparent. I do think there's appropriate ways and inappropriate ways, but also, like as we fought over the years in front of our family and our friends and our kids, like, how else are my kids gonna learn how to repent unless they watch me repent? How else are they gonna learn how to fight in a way that's honoring and caring and not destructive and damning and destroying? Um, and that's how Carson months ago was like, hey, we should pray. Like, I wasn't at a point, Jen wasn't at a point where we could pray, but Carson led us there because he saw us lead him there, ironically, and he calls us to pray. And so today this idea of imitate it can be intimidating, but also it's freeing and it's beautiful, and it's the way that Jesus calls us to make disciples.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Yeah, and I think for some, like it exposes like the challenges of this week expose fear. Yeah. Fear of like being awkward or being rejected or you know, being misunderstood. And that's not like a sign of failure. That's like a really cool thing that you now get to bring to Jesus. And like that is the honesty you get to then have with the Lord over like, why didn't I take that opportunity? Um, and you know, these podcasts, the point of them as we walk through this, are moments for us to share those things that in humility and transparency about our process and all you know, we are we've been walking through this for a long time. And so, like, we've done this stuff and I've had all those feelings and still do, still do totally. And so, like, it's the it's the campfire debrief.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yep. So thanks for coming back to the campfire so that we can wrestle with not only what is God doing through us, but what's God doing to us? So as we kind of debrief for the campfire, it's like, okay, was I afraid to invite someone to a relationship with me deeper? Was I afraid because they'd see me. What's the why behind the what? And do I recognize that this isn't just about what God's inviting them into, what he's inviting me into? Yeah, yeah. He's inviting me into deeper trust. The Holy Spirit is the lead disciple maker of me and through me to others, but of me. And so when I'm leaning into my fear, like if I can name my fear, like what if they see me for who I am? Then I think fear can be surrender. If I ignore it, and so even to the campfire, we can debrief and say, no, no, no. Literally, this week in our in our journal, we're gonna walk through what is a prayer of surrender, what is a prayer of listening and saying, Spirit of God, speak. I'm listening to you. You're the lead disciple maker. Yeah. Um, and so a reminder that people aren't just projects, they're loved ones, sons, daughters, pre-believers, yet to believe. And so, this to me, this week in particular, it brings all sorts of fear. Did we actually invite someone to be in a relationship with us? Right. As we invited them, we're afraid because they're gonna imitate us. So are we taking seriously my call to imitate Christ? My R1 first and foremost.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Right. It makes it really real, right? And so, like, if I'm going to invite someone into my life truly, then they're going to see my actual life and not the like, you know, Facebook, Instagram version or, you know, but like the actual version and you know, all of that, how I handle stress, how I handle rejection, how I speak to people, what matters to me, what are my priorities? Like it's all on display when you really invite someone in, and that is scary.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

And what I love about this again, if I'm trying to impress you or the people that I'm inviting to my life, if I'm trying to help them see I'm awesome. Yeah. Well, there's just limits to my awesomeness. Yeah, totally. So if they're gonna be like really with me uh as an imitator of Christ, then they're gonna see the limits of that. And I don't want my one to be impressed by me. I want them to see Jesus, right? Like, even just literally last night, I'm saying goodnight to Peyton and I'm going in, and she's literally watching the podcast. And I was just hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Like she's 12 years old, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Like, like, and like we're we're she's teasing me and I'm teasing her, and we're just in this journey together. That's all it is. And so that can be scary, but it can also be freeing because Jesus is the hero. I want them to see Jesus. I want them to look at like what does my life look like when I fail and I fail forward because he picks me up. What does my life look like when I come and go, totally missed the mark? I totally am too anxious about this and I'm fearful about that. And but if I'm leading in such a way that says, no, I'm desperate and I'm dependent. And so when I invite you to follow me as I follow him, that just deepens my desperate dependent reality. That just helps me tell all the people that are following me, hey, I'm just following Christ. Right. And that doesn't mean that that I'm doing it inappropriately. It just means that I'm saying he is the goal, he's the source, and I'm gonna let you down, not excusing failure. I'm just saying, yeah, let's follow him together.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Right. Yeah. And I think it's super helpful because I think many of us, and I have like struggled with this, like, think that disciple making means that I need to be able to teach a whole Bible study. Yeah. And then I'm like prepared and equipped to like do this. Like, uh, that's not it at all. And this disciples made hear stuff. Again, you guys, it started not at it is evolved, right? It started as just like concepts and things that we talked about all the time at church. So like it, we've packaged it now, but these concepts in in the beginning of all of that, I was like, oh no, I can't like quote enough of the Bible. Yeah, I can't talk to anybody about Jesus. Like, um, that is not in here. That's not in here at all. It's really just about like letting people see how I'm actually following Jesus in real life and how I parent, how I work, how I do things. Like, and it comes, it comes down to like what does my life actually look like?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

And it's where I struggle with things like evangelism training, which I'm not against evangelism training. I'm just saying fall more in love with Jesus, R1, deepening with him, and that leads to you wanting to go out. That leads to you being like, okay, my R1 is with Jesus, deepening with God, R2, life change with other believers, and then R three is engaging with the yet to believe. But that flows from my R1. Right. It flows for me being like, wow, Jesus loves me, he sees me, he knows me. He didn't say, okay, disciples on the seashore, leave your nets and now let's go to class. He said, let's go to the campfire, let's go live life, and I'm gonna teach you as we go, I'm gonna transform you. Um, and I think that's imperative because imitation to look like Jesus can't be rushed. And I'm all about tell me what to do and I'll do it, and I'll run hard and I'll run fast. But instead, he's like, Don't be fast, be faithful. Just walk with me. And that's so freeing. You you like that language that I love of like the pressure's off. Yeah. Like in a healthy way. We need that. Um, and that means I can be patient with you as Jesus has been patient with me, and he's still patient with me. So I don't have to manufacture spiritual moments. I just have to be present, I have to be available, I have to be intentional and praying and watching. But that step of like imitate me as I imitate Christ, that's what Jesus calls us to. And so you can't just ignore that. If you're genuinely saying Jesus is the Lord of my life, well then he's also saving you and sending you to step into the places and spaces. And so some of those spaces that week three offers us as you go through the workbook is this idea of spiritual disciplines. Right. Creating space to say, I'm not trying to be trained to go do evangelism. I'm trying to just walk with my rabbi, be with God, be transformed by God. And these are practices that I think that Jesus models for us and gives to us as a gift, not a spiritual homework like we talked about, but an opportunity for transformation because you can't give away what hasn't been cultivated in your heart and in my hands. And so I have to be walking with Jesus so I can say, Hey, come with me, Heather, come with me, Wes, come with me, Peyton, Braden, Jen. That's my call.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Yeah, and it's something that I think gets twisted around is like these spiritual disciplines, they're not about becoming extra holy and how you look by doing them. And it's it's just about creating enough space. All of them are about creating enough space where you can pause all of these things and and have space that God can actually work on you and work with you and you can be with him. And like that's that's really what they're about. And so when your one is around you, they see Jesus and not just you because if they just see me, it's just not worth following.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

They see less of little Andrew and more of Drew, who God's growing me up to.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Yeah, and so what we talked about in the in the thing, we talk about fasting, and fasting is really just pausing the normal rhythm that we're using in life just to and to to realize how much we depend on food and for comfort and for just like everything we need. And and if you take that, like, okay, now I have to just sit here and be hungry, and now I'm gonna think about like my relationship with God. And like, so it's just again, it's just creating like a uh pop us out of the autopilot and do something different.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

And as a health coach, like have you fasted spiritually? You've fasted physically, but have you ever fasted spiritually until vintage?

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Right, no, definitely not. And so it was like, yeah, I've done all sorts of intermittent fasting and different like lengths of fast, but that was for um performance or health or whatever, and in my like fitness career, and this is wholesale different than that. This is just like this is when you're hungry, what are you thinking about? That really is the point. Yeah, so it it sounds intense, um, but just like do it for just a little bit and you're like, okay, God just like uses that extra space that I have. Yeah. So um, yeah, it's just exposing what you're reliant on so that you're more reliant on him instead.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

And bringing that to God and saying, okay, here's this time that I was gonna eat. Instead, I want to meet with you. Exactly. I want to be with you. Right. Want to be transformed by you 100%. Um, and so that's one of the disciplines. Another discipline we talked about is the acronym of STEP. Um, in my defense, I didn't make this one. I actually don't know what who on our teaching team made this one. But STEP is an acronym. We pray, watch, and we step. And so, what does that step look like? Step is show up, talk less, eat together. Uh we fast together all, but eat together and then pray always. Like simple, memorable, show up, talk less, eat, pray. And it takes these examples that Jesus did with us and for us. And now, how do we get to implement those in our daily life?

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yeah, yeah. I mean, just like the basic one is just showing up. You have to be there to do any of this. Like you, you gotta answer the phone, you gotta send the text. Even if your one is maybe far away from you physically, like you gotta be present with them in you know, whatever ways that you can. Um, but like you gotta send the text, you just gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

And I'm just convinced Satan loves keeping us busy in chaos. Because the spirit, as we're praying, is prompting, yeah, right? He's telling us stuff, but like, I'll do it later. And I'm the worst. I'm like, I will totally text them later. And I don't, yeah, and I'm just convinced like that was Satan taking ground instead of the kingdom taking ground. Right. And again, God's sovereign, he wins. So I'm not stressed, the pressure's off, but man, show up, just be present.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Discipleship just starts with presence, it's not about this brilliance, it's just about presence.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, and and the T now, right, in the step, show up, talk less. Um, that's hard for preachers sometimes. Um, but Jesus just listened well. Like, think about that. Like, he looked people in the eyes, he says, I'm fully with you. Like, even right now, I don't know if you're listening and driving or whatever, maybe you're watching, right? But if I could look you in the eyes, like there's a presence, yeah, there's an Imago Day that I'm reflecting to you that you're reflecting to me. Um, and when I show up and when I talk less, I'm paying attention to what the the heartache is for them. If I'm having compassion on them, I have to listen, I have to hear them. Uh Jesus was an incredible listener. Yeah, he asked way more questions, but then when they asked the question, he answered. And so we show up, we talk less. It's one of the best ways to communicate love and care is just through listening, looking.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yeah, and it is hard because I think a lot of us, I want to like help and fix and like do things for people and like really make an impact for people. And I think that usually in my head that comes with like an action. But like you're saying, like when I've had like real need for connection, I really usually do just want that person to like just listen and just be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So and I do think the more that we hang out with people, so that's the eat part, the more that we're like, okay, how do I be intentional with my rhythms? And we've talked about that, and so we're gonna parse that through week two. So as we step into, we're imitating Christ. Well, Christ ate with people. So much of ministry was like there's things happen in a synagogue, but mainly it's happening around a table. Yeah, right. Where we're looking at each other, we're eating, we're locking eyes. Um, I think that's such a big part of what God has called us to. Um, sitting around tables in these ordinary places and spaces.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, and we like we say in the book, like you're you're gonna eat 21 meals a week or whatever, and Drew's big haha joke, he says every time, is like, oh, I eat 25 because he loves snacks. So, but like really I'm just an overachiever.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I just want more opportunities for God's kingdom to come. Yeah, that's all.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

So, but you're just using something. The point is you're just using something that's already in your routine. You're going to eat. I know we just talked about fasting, but you're going to eat your meals. So use one of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

How do we how do we tithe our time, talent, treasure? Yeah. How do we even look at our meals and say, okay, am I going to set apart this one meal every week to be with the yet to believe?

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Um, I'm going to set apart a meal or two to fast, but what if I set apart a meal or two to be? Um, to just show up, to talk less, to eat more, um, to engage relationally with them. And how do we do that? Matters. And then when we're there, of course, we're just praying. Yeah. Because we have a rhythm now, a muscle memory of praying and watching these steps of eating, of showing up, of talking less. Now I'm paying attention. Jesus is praying. He taught us how to pray. He calls us to pray. He talked to Abba Father all the time. And so we're stepping into that meal. And I tease my kids all the time when they were really little, they'd be like, Well, should we pray if the food's not going to be good? I was like, Well, I pray the food is good. No, you you pray before your meal to thank God for his provision, his opportunity. So, this meal, that's all it is. It's an opportunity to engage with the yet to believe if we're redeeming our time that way.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, yeah. And it's a it's a good reminder. Like, just if someone's around you enough to imitate your life, what they really need to see, what would benefit them the most is to see your dependence on Jesus. And and it's not just your values and all these other things, but like your dependence.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, I love it. And and that's why we talk a lot about in this concept of spiritual disciplines, things like Sabbath. Like when people look at my life, what are they imitating? If they were to live like little Andrew, hopefully they're living in a life that actually shares the dependence, desperate dependent that I have on God. Like rest matters. We're not the savior. I mean, I had to tell myself this as a young pastor all the time, and other people had to tell me this like Jesus doesn't need you, Drew, to be a saving son. Like God the Father already has a saving son, his name's Jesus. He just wants you to be a faithful one. Like that's it. So we show up, we're imitating Christ, and we're calling other people to imitate us as we imitate Christ. Like he is the vine, we are the branches. We're called to abide, not even to achieve. And so there's that take the pressure off, yeah, follow Jesus, imitate Christ. Disciple making without abiding is only burnout. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Yeah, and Sabbath is just one of those ones that is so tough. And I I don't know if it's just the way that humans are wired or if it's like our hustle culture, no rest days, like go, go, go, you gotta like do everything. Like this is one that I've super struggled with is just like taking a whole day and not doing something for one of my businesses or one of my something. And it's like it's the I've heard it said like um that it's the only sin or it's the most celebrated sin for pastors in particular in our like world or whatever, because yeah, what other you know of the sins are like we we get like praised for? Like, oh no rest days.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

As a young pastor, when people would tell me you work so hard. And I'm like, yeah, it makes you feel good.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

And I'm just gonna be able to do that. And then I'm like, whoa, it's hard. But like that's the thing. And I just think it's like this is one for me that I'm like, oof, like I've been aware of this like problem for me, like for a little while now, and it's been like just super obvious. I just have a really hard time with it. And just like coming back, I'm just preaching this to myself. Like, rest is not laziness, rest is trust. And like, I don't know why that's so hard for me to like just be like, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Because you have some deep issues like me, yeah, and I think by God's grace we see those similarities, and I've repented to you and been like, yeah, like that's not good for me. Yeah, um, that doesn't glorify God. It doesn't. God didn't rest on day seven because he was tired, right? He rested again, words and ways. Yeah. The ways of God was so that we would see, no, he made us to be dependent upon him.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

But he built it that way from the very beginning. Oh, the beginning of the book. Why is that so hard for me to do when that's how I was supposed to be? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah. So the intent of the disciplines in week three is to call us to be more like Jesus. Exactly. To come to him in repentance, to be like, yep, I missed this.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

This is to help you.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

And hopefully you have people in your life that you're walking with that you're like, oh, I see your sin, but it's actually my sin, and we're together in this and we're bringing it to him. And that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And then really, hopefully, it leads to all these disciplines are leading to your walk with God, deepening with God, so that you cannot just receive life transformation but reflect it. Exactly. So that someone someday, because you're praying and watching, you're being intentional in all your relationships and your meals and your places and spaces, then someone will actually ask you the question. Right. Right? And like this just happened the other day. One of our longtime vintage guys, he reached out, he's like, Drew, they asked me the question. Right. My friend is on deathbed. Now I pray it doesn't wait till deathbed for the question to come, but I'll take it. Wherever it is, I'll take it. And so Nick just says, Help me out, Drew. Like I know, I know, I but just remind me, what do I know? Um when someone says, What does it mean to give my life to Christ? And he's been praying for that moment forever, and now the person's asking, right? And that I would encourage you to go back to the gospel, not just intellectually getting the gospel, but affectionately being gotten by the gospel. You can go listen to the Jeff Vanderstel episode. Yeah. Your joy in Jesus. Yeah. What does it mean to walk with Jesus? Why do you believe this? Why do you live this way? Yeah. Um, because they're seeing something in you that they're gonna want to imitate. Like, why do you have hope? Why do you have this belief? Like your life's not perfect. I see it because you're walking with me. I'm watching you. Now, what do I need to actually have the joy that you have? Well, that's Jesus. That's what you need. You need Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Right. And it's encouraging because I think that it's easy to think that people will want to have want you to have all the answers like theologically. And it's like that's probably not what they're gonna be initially interested in. 100%. It's probably just like your story and and your why. And, you know, this is who I was, this is what I looked like, and Jesus still liked me, and this is the way he's transforming me. From here. And just like sharing just that version is just like, that's really what people usually want to know.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Um, and and that's like that's really what you're pointing to.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Well, and if you think about like for Nick, a deathbed conversation, it's like, why are you not afraid of death? Well, I I would be if Jesus didn't tell me that I'm loved not by what I've done, but by what he's done.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

That I have security, that I have hope of a future, that I have certainty, that I'm anchored in Christ. Like those are all stories that again, they don't care about the spiritual laws. They don't care about all the apologetics, which I think there's tons of reasons to believe what we believe. Totally. But in that moment, they're just like, They're not actually why are you happy?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Why are you? They're not asking, Why are you holy? Over time, on our campfire, we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna walk with Jesus on that camping trip. But really, they're just saying, tell me your story. Like, again, like you're just saying, where did you meet Jesus? Um, and so before we ever go to the yet to believe in R3 relationship, it does start with our deepening with God. Yeah of just walking with God because He's the hero. Um, and that really is that story. That's the most natural bridge to get someone when they're curious about Christ, they're watching you, they're starting to imitate you, then you get to just tell your story about how Jesus called you, loved you, wooed you, and invited you to follow him.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Yeah, and all these things are just really about becoming the kind of person whose life and lips like point to Jesus. And so it's not about being like perfect, but just honest and intentional and consistent. And that's really the the only goal. Yep. Um, and and then I think you can kind of look at this process so far of like who who am I, who is my one and how is this progressing? And we talked about it a little bit, but like releasing the expectation of what that looks like is so hard. And so like I want to like make sure everybody's like, oh no, that is hard. That is hard to release it. We were prepping for this episode, right? And you we were like, okay, we're gonna like chat about what it what do we want to talk about, and you know, da-da-da. And we're like, here, share a story of like, you know, the fruit of some one of your ones or whatever, like that's where we're at, you know. And I'm like, my genuine response in that moment to you was like, I don't really have a lot of fruit. I don't know why, I but I don't have a lot of fruit. And then I was like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. Like, how do I know what I didn't pause to do? And it's just cool, it's just really cool how God works because that was my genuine response. And I was like, I all my ones right now are not where I want them to be. I want them to be closer to Jesus, I want them to be further into this. That's what I was focused on. That's what my brain immediately looked at, and I was like, I don't really have fruit because all my ones right now, I'm like begging God to just like do a work in them. And so then I like go home, do not think about this for another blip. I'm just like moving on with my day. I have 300 things to do. And I am going to sleep last night, and I swear, like, God tapped me on the shoulder and was like, Come on, no fruit. Like, are you serious? And um, I could like cry right now. Like, Rachel and Michael popped into my head of like just this, these two, these are our two of our best friends, okay. And they work with us. They we run a business, she runs our whole business. Like, I mean, this girl knows the good, bad, and the ugly of Wes and I to a point that I'm shocked she's still our friend, like genuinely. Like the all all the filters are off with this, the this couple. And I was thinking about their process, and they had some like things in their life originally where they were like just they had some like real resistance to church and just like Christianity and like just some people in their lives that had been kind of a turn down. Yeah, stumbling blocks. Totally, yeah. And you know, we were like super diving into all of this stuff, we've been friends with them forever, and and they we had talked about it with them, but I mean, never once were Wes and I like, we gotta get them. Like that was not like I didn't even have language to like think about it like that. And they have told us, you know, since then, like more recently, that like part of their process that helped was like just watching us just live it out. Like, I mean, we were not going for anything with them, we were just doing our thing, but they were watching transformation, and now they are two of the most like impactful, intentional kingdom people that are.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

These are like front row vintagers, they are like they're at Jackson with us elementary school, like we are friends with eight billion people, they are literally friends with everybody.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Everybody loves Elder Hills everybody. As Jesus shines through them, yeah, and they are so amazing at being intentional, anyways. So I just I just had to share, like, I'm serious, God just like kind of tapped me on the shoulder and was like, dude, come on.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I think he kicked you in the ship.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yeah, he totally did. And I was laying there and I was like, oh my gosh, I was so focused on where a couple of people that I'm really fervently praying for right now aren't where I want them to be. And that that I just overlooked the amazing like stuff that God has done in and around. And that's just one example. He brought up a couple other examples, but but it just is like, okay, and it just is a reminder to me to like release and like I am so the next goal person, and it's like, no, this isn't how it works, faithfulness. So, anyways, that was just like I think that it's helpful to know, like, this isn't gonna go how you think it's gonna look. And like, I have all these sorts of ideas cooked up in my head of exactly what's gonna happen as I invite these people and as they imitate and la la la, and like it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

And he's the Lord of the harvest, exactly. Not Heather. Yeah, even though I'm sure Heather would be a great harvester.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

No, like but it's not about us, it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

And like the freedom for you and I, who are very much achievers, to be like, no, the call wasn't to achieve. Yeah, the call was to abide. Really hard. Like, that's it. And then the humility, like, thank you for sharing, because again, this wasn't in our notes yesterday, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Like this happened last night.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Thank you for sharing what this looks like. I hope, not just for you, but for all of us, is remembering that like God's doing something through you, but he's doing something in you. Yeah, like right now, even this podcast for you is for you to remember, oh, that's right. I can't just say he's Lord of the Harvest. I have to believe it. And I disbelieve all the time. Yeah, from my head to my heart. There's always these moments. And so I do I pray that like Heather's story helps you see how we are on the battleship with you. We are out in the harvest with you, not as the Lords of the Harvest. We're just praying, imitating Christ imperfectly, um, normal people doing normal things. And that is where I'm very excited for our next episode, too. Like we are, and we were talking about this yesterday as we were prepping, like, we're coming and landing the plane at the end of season one. Yeah, but also we're sending you at the end of season one into a summer season for all of us to be sent ones, yeah, to be people that are imitating Christ as we go. Um, as we're going, we're praying and we're watching at school, at work, and and we're gonna repent each step of the way. And there's just this excitement for me. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Um, yes, I want your one to come to faith. Make no mistake. That's why, again, you're just explaining the compassion that Jesus has of sheep without a shepherd, and you want more for them. That's okay. Yeah, I want you to understand there's more joy in Jesus. Right. So as your friend, I love you, and my heart breaks for you. Yeah, stay there. Don't ever change that. Yeah, you're right. But also remember the Lord of the harvest loves them even more than us. Totally. And that our one, we want them to come to faith, but also God's doing something in our faith as we walk with him. Right. And so as we come back next week, we're gonna dive into that last part of the diamond, which is innovate. How do you do this?

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

I can't minister to them because you work with them. Yeah. I mean, now I can because our pray watch lists overlap and we live life together, and it's so fun. But how do you just say, okay, I receive the grace of God and I reflect it? And so truly, like, truly, truly, truly, it's I'm humbled to do it with you. I'm humbled to do it with you that we get to be on this battleship together everywhere that we live, work, and play. So next week, come back. We're gonna continue to pray and watch, and we're gonna innovate as the Spirit of God leads through you in all these different places and spaces. We love you guys.