The Business of Black Art with Onaje Henderson

Onaje Henderson, managing partner at ZuCot Gallery, discusses Atlanta's evolving art scene, the economics of art collecting, and the importance of supporting Black-owned galleries. Henderson highlights the need for more black collectors and the challenges of validating Black art. 

He emphasizes the role of technology, such as virtual galleries and QR codes, in enhancing the gallery experience. Henderson also mentions the partnership with Microsoft, which improved Zucot's tech infrastructure. Henderson also calls for increased support for Black cultural institutions to elevate Atlanta's art reputation globally.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome back to Theron's Take, where politics, arts, and culture meet real conversations. I'm your host, Theron Johnson. If you enjoy conversations like this, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow the show wherever you get your podcast so you never miss an episode. Today we're driving into the world of art and culture here in Atlanta. Our guest, Onaje Henderson, managing partner at Zucott Gallery, the largest African-American-owned fine art gallery in the Southeast. With a background in engineering, consulting, and project management, Onaje has helped position Zuka as a major cultural hub for collectors, artists, and the broader creative community. Today we'll talk about Atlanta's evolving art scene, the economics of collecting, and what it takes to elevate artists in a city that is rich in culture, but still growing its reputation in the global art world. Thank you so much, brother, for coming on Theron's Take. And I want to say this to you as we start. We are politics, arts, and culture. I mentioned it in the intro. And you are our first arts person to actually come on Thernstake. And I was very intentional about that because I know how much Zucott means to this Atlanta community, but not just in Atlanta, all over the country and in the world. So thank you, brother, for coming on today.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Thank you for having me.

unknown 1:28

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

So let's just jump right in. Okay. Tell us more about you. And our research, I found I knew you went to Tuskegee. I know you're a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporation. That's right, that's right. When we see each other in Zucott, which by the way, I've been there for a lot of different events. Of course, you break in new artists, bringing, you know, continuing artists back who love Atlanta and people who've been around for a while. But man, I've been there for weddings, uh, wedding receptions, uh, birthday parties, um, if it's just a meet and greet for political candidates. Um, but tell us about you, where you're from. I know Tuskegee, I know you, Alpha, and your dad played a major role in your life being an engineer. But just tell the folks uh who are listening and watching today about you.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

So uh I grew up in here, I was born in Atlanta. I grew up in on the east side in Decatur. Um high school did you go to? Went to Magnair High School. Okay, Magnus. And uh didn't end up going to Tuskegee. Uh, my brother and uh Omari, my brother is three years older than me. And uh we both did engineering. Uh our father, Aaron Henderson, is also an engineer from Tuskegee. My mom and dad met at Tuskegee. So we're a Tuskegee family, generations of Tuskegee. Uh had great uncles that went to Tuskegee. Um, so um that piece has always been there. Um I uh got into the world of consulting when I first got out of school. But during that same time, my father, when we got our scholarships to college, my father left corporate. Um when I got my scholarship, I was a 3M scholar in college. My dad was like, well, I well, I'm doing corporate now. And uh he and my mom had a conversation and he started doing the art full time. Um and so from there, when I graduated from Tuskegee, I called my brother, who at the time was working at PG, and said, hey, it's time for us to take over the business side for dad. And so we formed a company, or my dad already had a company called Premier Art. Um kind of took that company over. And we started using our corporate dollars to rent out gallery spaces to do shows in the city. And so our very first show was at the DeForce Center years and years ago. Uh right off, well, it was off Hall Mill Road. Uh and since then, uh, we would go to various, various places, do a show. Because we realized that at the end of the day, no one was talking to anybody our age. I'm 20 at the time, 24, 25 years old, um, looking for artwork, and people are looking at me like I'm crazy. Um, or also going in spaces where you just didn't feel welcome. And so uh we used to start going out with our friends. And so, yeah, I'll never forget I had like a Nissan Centra at the time. It was like a 93 centra, I had my brother's old car. Here I'm making great money consulting, but I bought a house and it had a painting. I still had that centra, but it had that artwork and on the walls as well. And I think when your friends see it, when you can break it down in ways, you know, to your own demographic that's been ignored. And to this day, you know, you think about it, like who really targets black professionals? Um and when it's not just us talking about another brand, like who's really goes after us? And um our market has always been focusing on creating spaces that A are unapologetically black, where everyone is welcome, but at the same time creating these spaces where uh it's designed for our demographic.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So did you actually um collect at an early age or when did you actually start really getting into the arts? That's my first question. The second question is um, how did you utilize your engineering background? Um, do you think that really helps you understand more about art or understand people? Because you you broke into an area uh in Atlanta, you ended up in Casterbury Hills where Zucchat is located. Um, how did you apply your engineering degree and also how quickly did you start collecting?

SPEAKER_03 5:15

So we've been around art our entire lives because our father was an artist. I remember when Omar went to college, he actually came back home that first week and brought up brought a painting back to Tuskegee for his dorm room because it just felt weird not being around art. And I think it's really important, even as parents now, to put your kids around art, uh, culture, all those things. So we were going to see plays as young people, uh as kids, uh, whether it be theater, dance, everything. My parents just exposed to all the arts, right? And so, and and other cultures as well. But then you realize the importance of it when it's not there. And so when I got out of school, that's one of the first things I th I did. You know, I I uh, like I said, I uh I got my house, and then after that, the very first thing before I had a couch, I had a painting on the wall. And so I remember going around in the galleries trying to find things and just trying to find work that looked like me. And back then, Atlanta, even then, as as as black as Atlanta has always been, uh if there were galleries, um either they didn't they didn't long last a long time, um and it goes back to us needing to support gallows. And like I'm I'm really asking the question, what's on our walls? Like, what are we putting up on our on our walls? Um and so that was just natural for me. And yes, about the engineering piece of it, engineers are problem solvers.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, you're very analytical. Yeah, you guys are trained to be analytical and assess problems, but also create solutions.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Exactly. So well, the problem right now is that why are we not collecting our culture? What's the solution? But also, how do you awaken a sleeping giant, right? Like, so so first off, it's normalizing the idea of collecting culture in general. So if I'm gonna do that, then it's to normalize it, I would say something like if you come into the gallery and you say something's expensive, let's say it's a young lady with a handbag on and she says something expensive, and this has happened. And I look at her handbag and I look at the painting, and I'll say, well, that costs more than a painting. But what it does is it's not even a call, it's more like it's it's grounding the conversation now to make you realize, oh, I already spend this money. I'm just putting it somewhere else. So when people say I can't afford certain things, you may have some jeans. You can add up the what you have in your closet right now and see that you got paintings all over the place in regards to value and also what you want, you know? Um, and so begin there so we begin to feel comfortable around it. Um, and then also you just continue from there and start to educate. So the the engineering us, the prop uh solving the problem was looking at it on every side. So, number one, how comfortable we are around our things. Why do we require validation at times? How do we become the validator and then empower those? And so you can you you're dealing with a lot of things when when it comes to art because it's personal. So what you hang on your walls, what we believe is what you hang on your walls is a reflection of who you are as a person. So if I come to your house, I can see what you really may, what you may even value by what you have on your walls. We do the same thing with corporate right now.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

So in reading about you, uh, you talk about your father a lot in your intro. You mentioned him, Aaron Henderson. But I know that he does visual narrative art. Yes. And you had it displayed in Zucchot. Tell us more about how your father being a visionary in art and what was sort of been the process of making sure that folks see that type of uh visual art in your gallery.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

The one thing I love about um our, I guess, our our our our roots in this is that my father is a storyteller through his work. And so we've always gravitated to other artists who are storytellers in that work as well. Um so my father did his first painting when he was 12, like first oil painting when he was 12. And since then, um my grandfather gave him a paint by numbers and uh he did it really fast. So my dad my grandfather came back the next day with a blank canvas and more painting just said, now make up your own numbers. And he's been doing that ever since, right? And so from being uh the the campus artist at Tuskegee in the 60s and 70s, early 70s um to now, um I think that was a great basis for us because that narrative piece is so important because we're not showing art for art's sake, meaning like there's meaning behind the work as well. And so there's a little bit more uh substance behind what you see. And so I think that that kind of helped us structure what the gallery is now, where most of the artists in the gallery, or all the artists in the gallery, there's there's some content behind what you see on that wall. So when you may you may see an image there, and then there's also something more behind it.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Atlanta. We're known for a lot of different things. Um, our civil rights movement history, the Olympics, now defeat for World Cup Super Bowl, uh HBCUs, Lemon of Epper Wings. I was gonna go there. Yeah, you've been you've been watching our segments, right? You know, our adult entertainment spots, you know, our belt line, the world's busiest airport, uh, most efficient airport. But why do you think we're not up there when it comes to art when we are compared to cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami? You know, we we all uh converge on Miami doing art basle. But why isn't Atlanta in that list and why are we not at the top when it comes to art in general?

SPEAKER_03 10:38

I think Atlanta has always been somewhat of a sleeping giant, meaning that uh there is so much uh power that is that is uh yet to be harnessed here in the city. Um and I think uh in the art industry in particular, there's this thing with validation that just comes over us. And and you see it in everything we do, whether it be uh and I'm speaking now uh in particular to uh in regards to African Americans and in culture in general, how many of the things that we create but do we actually own? And so when you when you think about ownership versus all right who actually made this, um so Atlanta's tons of artists, but for some reason, some of us when we we will go to other galleries to to buy the work and not go to our own galleries. And so that's uh but once again you handle that piece with love, you point it out, you educate, and then there's a I have this this belief that these are things that uh can be changed and shifted. And you're seeing it right now. There's a number of new um galleries in the city now. I think the the reality is this though, like when you think about it, how how often are or when were you exposed to art and art collecting in general? Um and if you're not if you're not exposed to it, then what do you how do you know about it, right? So I think about what we do now. We have a nonprofit called our Our Brothers Foundation, where we do field trips for young people as well into the gallery. So we have schools come in. You could change a child's life in 45 minutes. But in that is that just that initial understanding of how important these things are. So now when you do get that job, what is step one, step two? Many of us have always seen the American dream, but we only seen it from the outside. So we get the big house and the big car, we have no idea what to put inside of it.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

That's true. Listen, I would tell you this, man. I remember when my mother, when we moved to our first house, the first time my mom actually owned her house was in 1992. And packing up, you probably heard these stories, right? And packing and unpacking stuff that's been sent in the storage room, we found all this art. And it was from my uncles and from my aunts. And so we didn't throw away that artwork. And so when I started doing more research on my uncle, particularly uh Eugene Thomas, he was an artist and galleries wouldn't pick his stuff up. So when you asked that question, when did you start being a true collector of art? It wasn't really until probably 2000, for me, 2010, 2011, a guy named Derek Forger at the time was in New York, a Morehouse brother, Alpha Man, uh, who, you know, has been invited to the podcast to come on. Um I'm gonna call him out because I know he he's been watching. Um, but I remember him sitting there saying, hey, you may want to buy now. Right. Like, get my art now there. And I remember sitting there, I'm like, okay. And the numbers were low. Derek tells the story. But but there's so many stories out of like that hype. We don't understand the true value of art and how it um helps with value. I mean, just like real estate, art is something you can invest in and it appreciates. Yes. Other than cars and all these things that depreciate. But want to go back to Atlanta. So I was doing some research and the team was doing some research, and we rank 50th in the U.S. when it comes to state funding for our arts. Now, shout out to our mayor, Mayor Andre Dickens, but even before him, Maynard Jackson. The city is trying to do their part. What do you think needs to happen now to get the state and other government entities to invest more in the arts here in Georgia, and particularly in Atlanta?

SPEAKER_03 14:22

I think one of the biggest things that has happened when they added the A2 STEM to make it STEAM now, when you you can't have uh just creativity in general without the arts. So if you want your children to become problem solvers or creative thinkers or think outside the box, that's a that is an extremely important part of of uh of their growth. I can say that this administration, um, in regards to Atlanta, um uh Mayor Dickens and their administration, um in my opinion, in the past few administrations, I think they're they've probably been the most active in regards to that and addressing it and speaking about it and supporting um and just really having uh a team on the ground that truly does support and care for the arts, uh, then we've seen in our 15 years. Um they've been able to do um a lot more for that or or a lot more um um with the community. But I but I also think though that the residents of Atlanta need to care as well. Um and so a lot of times I think that when we look at work and when we look at the arts, we kind of take it all for granted. So we'll we'll go and see, like, hey, you know, how many like this playhouse is closed down. Well, did you support it? Well, you miss it only once it's gone, right? And I think that in a time like now, even politically, it's really important that we support these cultural institutions because we're watching some face erasure in front of our eyes. And so we have to begin to care about our things and support our things. And support is more than just uh talking about them. It's a it's a financial commitment to these spaces, and so that's why it's so important right now for people to be in galleries to make sure they continue to exist. You know, when it comes to African-American art galleries in the country, it's almost like food deserts. You go to certain states, there aren't any. Right. You start jumping over states to get to the next black gallery. What does that tell you then? Like, where's that market? Like, what are we putting on our walls? You know?

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I love that. I love that. Now, it are you the sole owner of Zucca? Are you co-owner with someone?

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Co-owner. So it's three of us. It's my brother Omari Henderson, and then our business partner, Troy Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

All right, so you guys, right now, in our research, we saw you guys are the largest black-owned art gallery in the Southeast.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yes, that specializes in original works by living artists of African diaspora.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yes. What type of cultural pressure do you feel every day by having that ranking but also maintaining it?

SPEAKER_03 17:11

So I don't even think about it as a ranking. I just think that if someone, if someone else comes in doing the same thing, we need that. You know, like it's not because that's not uh anything that we are we need more people buying work uh and telling who like who's gonna be the custodian of our culture. And who's buying it now?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

We talked about this before we started.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Who's buying our black art?

SPEAKER_03 17:34

So most work by African American artists is not being bought by black people at all. Um majority of it is is by white collectors. And so when you think about even that, when we're talking about that machine um of investment and things increasing in value, unfortunately, that's a market that we also are not really in control of. Um, you know, a lot of this stuff happens in the secondary market or auction houses. Well, when a work gets to the auction houses, then prices are driven up by based off bids. And then once it goes for a certain amount of money, you know, when you ask an appraiser how much work is worth or the value of it, a lot of times you look at how much is sold at auction.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Well, talk about that secondary market. Because as a collector myself, I I had to learn the hard way about the secondary market. But what you just said was deep because how it gets appraised, many of us don't really understand that.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Right. So I'll give an example if uh let's say we have everyone in the studio here. Um, we all get together and we say we're gonna select a certain artist. And this is a very loose example of how it works. But then we uh we say we're gonna begin to support this artist, all right? Now you, you're on a board of some museums. So as we begin to collect this work, uh we have a writer that's writing about the work. We have a gallery doing publications about the work as well. We're continually validating this work. You're now gonna go ahead and let's say over a couple of years, we build us begin to build this profile of this artist. Now you you donate one of your pieces to this museum. So now it's part of a permanent collection. At the same time, we're getting our friends to buy work and everything else. We're partnering with the gallery, we're placing the institutions, and now what's happening is this there's this pedigree that's forming. We get to a certain level, we decide, hey, it's time for us now to all come together and have a conversation about us going to Southersby and now putting some works up for auction. Now, the reason why we're doing this is because it's an unregulated market when it comes to artwork. So we literally are about to change the price of this stock essentially. So we go in with we go into the auction. You can go in and say, okay, look, I'm gonna start the bidding at let's say$20,000. Now we know that I'm gonna buy it back at$35. But we're gonna all have our hands up, you know, driving the price up now it sells at$35,000. Now, we do this a number of times in iteration. Like I said, I'm just giving you a really bare bones kind of example of this. So now when we go get our artwork appraised, that appraiser goes, looks at how much it went for at auction. And that becomes sometimes, depending on the type of piece and the pieces, that becomes a baseline. So now what we may have been buying initially for$5,000, how that may have may now be worth$20,000. And you do it over and over and over. I mean, how do you think a Picasso is worth$200 million? Or this last Basquiat went for, I think,$110 million. Nobody ever talks about though the billionaire who bought it, he had one before that for$85 million. So when he bought that one for$110 million, his$85 million one went up as well. So he actually made money off of the purchase. And so in that way, it is literally creating wealth. And my point is that we're not participating in that, that space.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Well, some of us are. Right. And you know these athletes, these entertainers, and you have, I mean, we like you said, we got a lot of good collectors here. I know some of them you'll you'll probably shout out as we continue this conversation, but I mean, the way you just broke that down, brother, that is amazing. Because I saw the 110 million, but I didn't know the 85 million when he purchased. So he's basically driving up his own cost and profit for a piece that he owns by buying that piece. Exactly. And so it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

But the thing about it is the machine itself, we're not considered there. You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

So there's no regulation. So you're saying it's an unregulated market.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

So there's nothing on the federal, state levels, which is why you also have so many um you won't find like wealthy people just don't like art because they have money now, right? It's also a financial decision. But we're saying, though, the the other part that's so important with our work in particular is the fact that do you like it? It has intrinsic value as well. And what does that intrinsic value mean to you? So it's also important that we actually take this work and pass it down, also.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So, Anaje, you just talked a lot about um the one form of art, right, which is the conversation. Collectors and the buyers, but how many times do you talk to artists, women and men, who struggle early on in their career? They have to price their art probably lower than what it's really worth just to get started. And then how do they sustain it? Like take us into the life of an artist right now, uh, where they are like going through the struggles. Because all we always sometimes we only hear how they made it and they blew up. But how many times do you hear stories about people who are struggling?

SPEAKER_03 22:26

I think it's funny is it's the story is very similar between artists and galleries. Uh it literally is it it is because when you start, when you're starting out, whether it be trying to establish work, um having a body of work that you actually are proud about, especially with younger artists. I know we work with more mid-career artists for that reason because there are a lot of people who can draw. It's like like there's a lot of people who can sing, but they're not singers, right? So like a lot of people who can draw who may not be artists in the same sense. And so it's a true commitment, um, like entrepreneurship, like anything else, you know, once you're once you're in, you're in. Um, and I think for a lot of artists, I always suggest starting out at Emerging Artist Galleries, uh, works where they can kind of help you establish somewhat of a price point and understanding the business side of it. So like it's it's the type of thing where someone is selling your work and then you understand then what that payment looks like, you understand the business behind it, but you're also building um a base, and you also are getting feedback from a collector base that's just not your friend circle. Um and so it helps you understand the marketplace. Um, most artists start off though just by support from their friends and doing things like uh there's a a great um emerging artist show that's done here every year called R4 ATL by George and Assoey Galbraith that they do every year. Um and that's also a great opportunity because you're also being critiqued by artists. Um people like myself who will come in and critique the work prior to um it showing. Um, but also you you you get to see what people really think about your work because all of this is just responding to the market. So I have artists right now who Atlanta may not be their market, but they may sell out in California, you know? Um so it's also understanding who your market is and where your market is. So it takes all that in the very beginning. So that is a that's a tough time initially.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

So now I want you to be honest with me right now. Have you and your other two partners, have y'all saw something in the gallery before it hit the streets, before it went public? And you'd be like, Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna go ahead and cop that real quick. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Matter of fact, matter of fact, we had to change a rule because uh because I'm sitting here listening, I'm like, how many pieces have you seen?

SPEAKER_02 24:45

You'd be like, Yeah, I think we're gonna get that.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yeah, yeah. Or you see a work that you really like. We had a rule that look, you you cannot even begin to, you can't get it until after the show because the strongest work, you know what the strongest work is, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

So you dare hoping that it don't get no I always wanted to believe. Okay, okay, you wanted to get sold. Yeah, but if it's that rare occasion where you've eyed that piece of art, right, by that woman and man, and it doesn't get sold at your gallery during that time that it's there. Yeah, we'll collect. Then you guys collect.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yeah, okay. So we had to make that rule up though, because a lot of times, you know, you're in there, you're like, all right, these works are beautiful. I know, I know that's gonna go, that's gonna go. And when your partners may come in and say, Man, I want that piece now, it's like, no, you gotta wait. You gotta wait. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Validation gap. Uh a lot of black art galleries are talking about that it's something that you guys are struggling with, trying to figure out. Uh, it's a term that, again, just doing research before the show. How how is it coming along? Like, how are you trying to um, you know, close that gap? Because it's real. Because you talked about it earlier in your comments about how we don't even buy our black art from our own black galleries. We'll go to other galleries and buy art. And then you talked about also how white, I think a lot of Jewish community people are are it's being very intentional about black art. But the validation gap, how how is that being handled right now?

SPEAKER_03 26:05

I think that um I would I would say you handle it with uh the most sensitive kid gloves you can. Uh and I what the reason I say that is that it's it's gotta be done with love. Because we understand like the the effects of slavery and everything else, the way it works on your mind, right? And so sometimes we don't feel our things are as good as others. Uh initially, I've had clients tell me certain works were too black for them to hang in their home. And you're like, but do you like the work? And you're like, yeah, I do. But they're afraid that somebody's gonna come to their house one day and be offended by what they put up on their walls. And so that piece of it is interesting because you can have that same piece and a white client may come in and say, I love that piece, I want it, and they'll buy it immediately. And so it's this, it's this, I think it's part of this mask that we're we're we're we have to constantly wear at times, whether it be in corporate. So, how do I get back to myself? What do I actually like? What am I, what am I thinking about? Um, and and so the validation piece, the way I think the way we get through part of it is um A, through education, B, through making sure that um we begin to see our things as just as important and just as credible as anywhere else. Because, like right now, for example, a lot of a lot of work being collected, we're told uh in some circles what to buy by people who don't even look like us. And so I can't think of another culture that really takes those cues the same way. And it's about ownership. It's I mean, you see it in all arts, you see it in music, you see it in film. We create these things, and at the same time, um the ownership piece is different, or we don't have that ownership. Or even how we value the NAACP awards versus the Grammys or the or the Oscars, right? And so it's it's something that we just consistently, I think, over time, um, even in this current administration, it's not necessarily the worst thing for us at times because it makes you realize how important home is and how important um how important your voice is and how important is that we support one another.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Atlanta has a lot of um artistic people here, you know, collectors, but also artists. Um who are some of the people you think right now that we're not talking about? And and they can kind of be up and coming. But also I want you to take a moment to give some flowers out, right? Um who are some of the folks in Atlanta in the black art space that don't get enough flowers that are not talked about enough? And they can be artists and collectors. I think uh past and present too. You know, we got a lot of giants that have unfortunately left us too soon.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

I think that people who are doing great work in Atlanta on the collector side are like Hassan Smith, um, who we've worked with and done some shows with. Uh Hassan is uh is uh is great in in how he is approaching the space, but also speaking to that ownership piece more as well as uh saying, hey, uh this is what I think is good, and I'm gonna tell you what I think is good as well. Um I think people like um there's artists like Horace M. Hotep, for example, who uh is an amazing artist, uh great narrative work. Petey Parker is another amazing artist. Um, you know, of course I'm gonna say my father, Aaron Henderson, is still as uh he's at at 70, 77 years old. I still don't think he's gotten his flowers the way he should. Um but then you have Charlie Palmer, but you have the work that Maya Bailey's doing down in Castlebury. Um you have Black Art in America with Najee Dorsey, what he's doing. It's there's so many people here that are doing wonderful things. Uh September Gray, uh uh as a dealer out who has a gallery here in the city as well, and um Arnica Dawkins. Um with um Arnica Dawkins Gallery, but then you also have one contemporary gallery with Farron. Yeah. Far and Mainna, we mentioned earlier. We're talking about that, yeah. Um so there are so many people doing these things here, and they all require and need the support in the art space, right? And there's a number of black businesses in general that need the support. But also, I mentioned earlier with the artful ATL with uh George and Asohe, people like Fahamu Piku, who has the Adama Museum, um that is also doing major things in this city that more people need to be aware of. And so it's a lot of people doing a lot of good things. There's a lot of collectors doing a lot of good things. We just need more of that. Um Atlanta is too important of a place, a city in this country, um, to not be, like you mentioned, at the at the forefront of arts and culture, in particular when it comes to black people.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

What what are the big events that happen every year? I mean, I've been to Driscoll. Um I'll go, I'll come to your gallery all the time. Like I said, I go there for a lot of different things. I need to come more. And as I as you talk, I want to go back to something you said earlier. Do I it's just a question, it's kind of rhetorical. But do we think um some of your white collectors ever say, hey, I can't put that in my house because it's too black, or I can't put this in my house because it's too white?

SPEAKER_03 31:41

It's not something that's not even it's not even abstract to me. Uh uh we understand what's happening here, right? Um we understand that um this is a condition that has been beat down also like to find self-love again or to find beauty in yourself after you've been told certain things about yourself for so long, it takes a minute. And so it's it's our responsibility to have that patience um and that uh and that level of love to give them opportunities and space and create environments where I mean how many unapologetically black spaces can you think of? I can think of plenty of spaces that were that were designed for other people that we just are used to conforming to. But how many spaces are like that? Even in Atlanta. So where we can, we were made to be the center of conversation. Like I said, everyone's welcome, but the center of conversation, and it's important to have those spaces. It's important that we visit those spaces because they were created for us.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I gotta do this. You know, in my day job, I represent a lot of different clients, but I was very proud, man, when I saw your partnership with Microsoft, um, who I've had the pleasure now for representing over a decade. Tell us about that partnership and tell us um how it's impacting the Atlanta community.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

So Microsoft came to us a few years back and they uh they told us that they wanted us to think about ways that Microsoft could work with us. And at first I'm thinking they're gonna give us like Microsoft Work for Free or something. I'm like, well, you know, and they were like, think bigger. We to engineer to think bigger, we're gonna go really big. And so, in doing so, they told me to come back a little bit. And then in the middle of that, we found uh we put uh an 85-inch hub, which is a large computer in the gallery, along with one um a 55-inch hub computer upstairs, uh, allowing us to now be able to show our entire inventory to clients when they come in, just on screens as well. Uh, we also partner with a company at the time um that created virtual galleries for our for our some of our um previous exhibitions. And so you're now able to go in and kind of tour work through a virtual space. As engineers, um I think there the the technology piece of it and our ability to um access and have access to technology is so important, especially now. Um so we also have QR codes, for example, in the gallery. So when you come in, you can scan those and get information about the works on the wall. Um we have pads, so when we do our tours with young people, they can come in and scan those QR codes and read about the work in groups so they can understand what they're looking at. Um we also uh they also came in and redid a lot of our sound and things like that also for us. So it just really created a uh an experience that is that is not like many galleries. Uh, I can say I think that from a tech standpoint, the way we incorporate into what we do uh really helps. But we're also looking at this point, trying to expand into virtual field trips as well with young people and using that technology to do that.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Well, it's that time. Rapid fire. Okay. We do this for all of our guests. So I'm gonna ask you the first question. Favorite artist of all time? Favorite artist of all time.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Like I said before, it'd probably be my dad.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

That's I knew I'd use that.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

All right, one piece of art you wish you owned. Oh, one piece of art I wish I owned. Right now, I would love um, just currently, uh, because that changes all the time, but right now I would love uh a large Nelson piece.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

And you called me out early about Nelson. Yeah, yeah. So I'm working on that. You've done your research. Um which museum would you want to visit over and over again?

SPEAKER_03 35:26

I really like the Brooklyn Museum. I really do. I like the way they incorporate um the community in their spaces. Um and they have those spaces that feel unapologetically, whatever you are. They like they really do seem to incorporate and care about um and and and telling the stories of of uh various various various groups of people and their cultures.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Who is an Atlanta artist right now or artists that we should know about?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Um all the artist in our gallery right now. Uh but also uh like I said, uh I think um there are so many here in Atlanta, man, that that really um deserve deserve that that that opportunity. I think that's that's that question is too loaded for me to answer. I would just wouldn't really encourage people to really get up on Saturday mornings and go to these galleries that we have. It's amazing work here. It's amazing artists here.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Well, anything else you want to say? I mean, you just did the call to action at the end, um, but I really appreciate you being on. But any last words that you want to share with our viewers and our listeners?

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Uh, in the words of uh Dr. Key Hallman, uh support is a verb. And in order for us to continue to see things, uh our things exist, we have to support them. And so get up, go out, support galleries, support museums, support uh all those things that uh from playhouses to everything else that need our support right now, especially now.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Thank you for watching and listening to Therrence Take. Please follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok. And wherever you get your podcast, please download Therrence Take. Share with a friend and drop a rating.