The New Face of Education in Atlanta — Dr. Michael Cormack Jr.

Dr. Michael Cormack Jr. is the new CEO of KIPP Atlanta Schools and he is not here to play it safe. In this episode, Tharon sits down with Dr. Cormack to talk about what it really takes to turn around a struggling school system, why literacy is Atlanta's most urgent civic priority, and what equitable education actually looks like for every child in this city regardless of zip code.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Education is so important to our young people's future. And today's guest is someone who has been in the trenches of education for over two decades, and I mean really in the trenches. He took a school district that had an F rating and turned it around. He secured $25 million in funding for kids who needed it the most. And now Atlanta has him, and we're so happy to have him in our great city. We're talking about the brand new CEO of Kip Atlanta Schools, Dr. Michael Cormac Jr. Welcome to Theron's Take, Dr. Cormack. Dr. Cormack, thank you so much for coming on Theron's Take. When you and I met in March of this year, you said something that I remember. You said that I am coming back to Atlanta, a place that I've, you know, visited and have some ties here. But more importantly, I want Atlanta to know that I'm here for a really good cause and a good reason. And that's to make sure that our kids are learning, making sure that people know that KIP Atlanta Schools is very focused on developing children, making sure that parents are involved, and making sure that literacy is paramount. So appreciate all the work that you're doing, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hey, yeah, well, I appreciate the invitation, Theron. Uh it's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure to be in Atlanta and to talk about the work that we are doing to just ensure that our kids are on a path uh to college and to choice-filled lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Tell us about your upbringing, where you're from, um, where'd you go to school, your family? I know you have three children, um, but tell us about you.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, so um I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon. Uh Portland is an interesting place. Uh it's a great place to grow up, but there are not a lot of black folks in in Portland. Uh, I joke with folks who are trying to kind of orient around Portland. Uh, it's a very progressive place. Uh, I say that there are probably more Black Lives Matter signs than black people, uh, but the connection um to that really tight-knit community was really strong. Um, and if you attended Jefferson High School or Grant High School, where my uncle and aunt were longtime teachers in the system, I could probably connect through one or two degrees of separation to most black people uh in Portland. It was a really tight-knit community where people looked after one another uh and that ethic. Uh, we were just a generation removed. You know, my family uh, you know, had its roots in the south uh from Louisiana. Um I would spend summers in Baton Rouge, in Zachary, in Port Hudson. Um, and so when I graduated college uh from Boston College and joined Teach for America, it placed me in the rural Mississippi Delta. And um folks were like, oh, well, from Portland and then Boston, you must have been shell-shocked. And it just felt uh really familiar because you know, the church upbringing and the black folks uh in that Portland Titan community really prepared me for life in the Delta. Um and I spent the last 23 years in Mississippi uh making a difference. Um I got started in education in Mississippi, uh, Mississippi was the worst place to educate a black boy or girl to read. Uh and then over you know the sweep of two decades in a generation, we moved from 50th uh to ninth in fourth grade reading achievement. Um and um I'm just really excited to have been a part of that work um and to let that work from the classroom as a principal and then as CEO of the an organization called the Barksdale Reading Institute, where we were doing work, transformative work throughout the state, just to make certain that every kid um had the uh capacity to learn how to read and that every teacher and principal in the state was moving and pulling in the same direction. Um so it was powerful work and it it really excites me uh to be in Atlanta and be able to share some of that. The Mississippi experience that was in Jackson, correct? Yeah, so it was Jackson and throughout the state. Um uh really an alignment um that I think is really powerful, where uh you had nonprofits, uh, the Department of Education, uh a dyslexic governor who brought that experience and clarity around reading, all pulling in the same direction with a goal of saying um we really want to transform outcomes for kids and do some things that are really powerful. And so um I spent the last seven years uh working in Jackson as chief of staff and deputy superintendent of Jackson Public Schools. Um, and so we were able to center a lot of that literacy work to really transform outcomes in the capital city there.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So, Dr. Cormack, when you hear states like Georgia and other states compare themselves to Mississippi, you were there when it was going through that transformation. What was sort of the secret sauce? So, what was the ability that you were able to show through your leadership to get others to buy into what you were selling as far as taking Mississippi in its totality, but also that particular part of Jackson to new heights?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, so I think it's a really interesting mix. It's making certain that every educator understands the science of reading. And when we talk about the science of reading, what we're really doing is going back to basics to ensure that, you know, there's a phonics uh as a foundation in every early uh childhood classroom, um, and making certain that teachers really feel confident uh from day one, uh, instructing in ways that um actually um that we know actually help to students to read, um, and not embracing other approaches that that don't do that. Um and so uh that I think is really transformative. I think the other piece is um there's a bit of accountability. So there was a high stakes test at third grade uh that really I think gave clarity to parents, like about how do I help to make certain that my my student is learning the things that they need so that they can promote successfully to fourth grade. But I think it just brought a laser-like focus of every stakeholder around something I think really uh core. Because when you can read, then you've got the basis to do other subjects. I mean, and and uh I know many of our parents will appreciate that, like even to do math, you need to be able to read in order to be able to do science or social studies. Like reading is one of those core foundational literacies that help you to uh be great and everything else. Um and um I had the pleasure when I was um, you know, uh as a father, I've got three kids and they each went through that experience uh together as well. And so um I was able to go around the state really, you know, um helping to equip parents and families um with the tools necessary and with the books and all of the strategies that they could do at uh at home to support the great work that was happening across the state.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

So let's go to how do you first hear about KIP? And did you know about KIPP um before you actually interviewed for the job?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Absolutely. So um, interestingly enough, so um at the start earlier in my career, um, I taught, as I said, uh for several years in the rural Mississippi Delta in Indianola. Uh it's actually the birthplace of BB King, and so uh that was a great place to teach, and then I worked with uh as a program director for Teach for America. Uh but then on the flip side of that, um, KIP um has a region in the Mississippi Delta, actually on the Arkansas side. And so for two years, uh I was a big Kipster and I taught uh fifth and sixth grades for uh Kip Delta College Preparatory School. Uh and so I was a middle school uh math teacher uh uh for KIPP, and so I had some familiarity um with the organization um nationally and then in the in the region. And I think the thing that really excited me about uh this opportunity and about what I experienced at Kip Delta was the fact that in every classroom you had a teacher that was really fully committed, all in for our scholar success, all in for ensuring that they were on a pathway to college, regardless um of you know um their circumstance of the zip codes and the hard lives um that many of our students experience. Um, we were all in just to make certain that they could could do that work. And we stayed and we worked long hours uh into the evening, just that grit. Um and so when the opportunity came about, um the lion's share of my career has been in traditional public schools. Um, as I mentioned, um, you know, I spent the last seven years as deputy superintendent in Jackson Public Schools. But when this opportunity came about, I think it just was the right nexus of an opportunity to come back to work for KIPP, but to come and work in uh such a rich community like Atlanta, uh, where there's such incredible prospects and such incredible culture, um, but where uh I really felt like I could uh leverage my experience um leading literacy um for something that is a great need here in Atlanta. So uh I think it was just the the mix of those those things. It felt like the right uh opportunity. How did you first hear about the uh job opening? Yeah, so I um I actually I have a friend that uh that that has a a site, uh Josh's K-12 jobs and uh publicizes um jobs across uh education. Um and so I saw the uh CEO position was open. Um, and this would have been November um of uh of last year. Um and just was an exciting opportunity to be able to uh pursue that. I've got friends uh here in Atlanta. Um obviously it's a such a dynamic city. Um but then um I was ready. I was ready for that next opportunity. You know, I've been having served as number two in Jackson uh for the last several years and been a part and proximate to all of the work, I was ready to lead in the top seat.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

So you come into KIPP at a time where trust uh is being challenged. Um scores were not necessarily where they needed to be, but they still were, you know, high in the KIP model is to make sure that you follow the data, make sure that you really put a big emphasis on learning uh and literacy. How's this experience been dealing with those issues around trust, but also collaborating with Atlanta Public Schools and parents and making sure they feel accessible to you, but also making sure that they know that you're coming in with a new fresh set of eyes, new vision, and new energy?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, so I think what's really important with any transition is really spending some time listening and learning, spending time in our schools, uh, spending time with our teachers and principals, um, and just really leaning in and assessing like what's working, uh what's not working, and where I want to lean in and bring my energy and uh where I want to help to lead the team. Um, and so I prioritize really being present in our schools um over these last several months of listening in, of attending events after school and getting to meet with our parents and families uh at Kip Woodson Park, uh uh the literacy events and uh running a 5K on the weekend with the Grove Park Foundation, um, of going um to um uh Kip Atlantic Collegiate and seeing our scholars perform uh Disney's Aladdin on the stage and having opportunities both to see their brilliance, but also to touch base with our parents and families. I think just really being on the ground and being present and being accessible and like, hey, I'm here uh and I want to learn with you, I want to learn what's working, and I want to um really lean into that energy. And um, we were in the midst then of a strategic planning process. And so those visits, those opportunities to hear from our parents and families and from our staff, I think has really been invaluable. Um, so uh just uh a week ago, um, we were able to successfully have our board vote uh in support of our new 2030 uh strategic plan, which we're calling excellent schools, expansive futures. And I think it's a an affirmation of the of what I've heard in our classrooms and in our community about um what they aspire to for our schools. Really excellent schools where every kid is uh a proficient reader, where we're really pushing and and and raising the bar uh for what they can do. And I think, secondly, where we are making a very explicit commitment to their post-secondary success and saying, not only um I think the thing that I think defines KIP Atlanta at its essence and what makes us a little bit different is that our commitment to our scholars doesn't end at graduation, uh, but that it continues beyond through college and through that first uh incredible family sustaining job, because that's really what it's all about is transforming uh the landscape for what uh economic mobility here in Atlanta. Um and so I'm excited that the plan really centers what we expect, um, which is that not only will our our scholars graduate high school, uh, which is a great accomplishment, but that they're going to accelerate into a career that they choose and be set up for success in college.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

What's the one thing that surprised you the most pre-March, now that you've been here now for a little less than a year, that you couldn't see prior to you actually taking a job? Like what's the one thing once you got in there and put peel back the layers and talked to all the different parents and board members and partners, Atlanta public schools, what's been the one thing that surprised you the most?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I think the thing that surprised me the most uh is the consistency of me hearing this message again and again, which is uh I want to see Kip Atlanta win. I mean, and and and people use that exact language. I want to see y'all win. Um, and that's really powerful when you're meeting uh with uh philanthropy and they say, hey, uh we're we're all in for your success. We want to see you win. Um when I I I talk to uh folks at the foundation or when I talk to our families, like they tap into and they make this choice um to attend Kip Atlanta schools, and they say, you know, I want the I want our schools to be the best. I want um something great for my for my child, for my scholar. Um I want to see you win. And the consistency of that message, I mean, it just, I mean, it makes you walk different, you know? Um, and it just makes you feel like you've got the wind at your back to be able to like do some some great things for kids.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

When I first learned about KIP uh probably over a decade ago, I actually had the opportunity to serve as a board member. And I remember vividly that there was a transformation happening in the city of Atlanta in the metro area where parents were wanting to send their kids to KIP. But I also know that there's been an ongoing conversation in this community about school choice. Right. And so take our listeners and viewers through, you know, what is really school choice, the difference between a public charter versus a private charter, how you all collaborate with public education where you're not taking away from public education, you actually are part of partnering like with Atlanta Public Schools. But talk to us about how the conversation is going in Atlanta when it comes around school choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

So I think it's a it's a it's a really important question because there's a lot of conversation about school choice. Uh, one of our values is choice and commitment. So our families um they make a commitment when they choose a Kip Atlanta school. And part of that commitment is um to say, like, I I want to attend this neighborhood school, um, and they commit to a lottery. Um, and we have that process so that um they can um gain admission uh to one of our schools. But it's open enrollment. Um, and we are public schools. Uh, we receive public dollars to do uh the work that we do in education, as opposed to simply um, you know, tuition. We don't charge any tuition. Um, that's not a part of our model. And so um we're all in. Uh, but then we also raise a lot of private fundraising dollars to help to support efforts like uh Kip Forward, which is our whole effort, our whole program to support um our scholars uh toward their post-secondary path. So whether or not um, you know, they do some really dynamic things. And it takes some private fundraising to be able to do that, but that's not born on the backs of our families. Um, that's money that we go out and raise to add uh to the pot that is in service of their needs. Um I think it's important in the choice conversation to really lift up uh those public options um and to also say that, you know, we're not, you know, standing in support of some of those other options that take away public money uh from students and encourage them into uh tuition-based and other uh private uh private means. So there's like no private vouchers and none of that stuff that's in KIPP. No, not absolutely not. And um I think it's really important to note that um our charter authorizers in KIP Atlanta, our uh Atlanta Public Schools, um they authorize the uh charters for our various schools. And um in in Fulton County, um uh Kipp South Fulton, our campus there, uh, is authorized by Fulton County School District. And so we work in partnership as part of those schools, uh, those school districts. Um when we host the Kip Atlanta Collegiate uh high school graduation, that is a ceremony. Uh, and we're standing on the dais with Dr. Johnson and his team and APS board members and our board president. Um, it is a united front, and so we genuinely want to work in partnership and a collaboration to improve the quality of education for um all students in Atlanta. And so we um leverage that as an option, um, but we are authorized by APS, we are authorized by Fulton County, we are public schools.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

So let's continue about the relationship with Atlanta Public Schools and Dr. Johnson. I know you've been very intentional about building new relationships, but also retaining existing relationships that benefit KIP and the organizations that are represented. How does how is the relationship between Atlanta Public Schools and you in particular, Dr. Johnson? How is that coming along?

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I think it's coming along well. Um I think we've had really productive conversations, uh, very transparent and candid. Um at base, what I think we share in common is that we want to support really great public schools that we know and we understand that like um we um that the future of Atlanta is is really tied and tethered to the future of its schools and our ability to make certain that we have excellent schools. And uh I'll share transparently Dr. Johnson said, you know, to me, um, you know, explaining he had a I think a really strong metaphor for the work um that we do. He said, you know, it would be like contracting with the painter for your house. And when you contract with the painter for your house, if you go behind them and you say, well, you know, the trim's not right and you you miss a spot here on the door, at the end of the day, you might ask yourself, well, you know, I I I could have done this myself. And that was his push to say that the bar for excellence for Kip Atlanta schools and for other charter or community schools has to be a bar for excellence. And um, what I've committed to him is that my bar is excellent and that, you know, we will be having conversations about how we achieve excellence across our schools. Uh, we committed to going out to schools to uh co-observe together um without the cameras, just you know, unannounced visits, so that we can ensure that um the product that we put before um and that that we advertise is the live reality in our classrooms. And so that's the challenge and challenge received. Um I want to be a part of building excellence uh in Atlanta. What's one of the biggest myths um that you want to clear up about Kip Atlanta? I think, you know, the the myth that I want to uh, you know, we're not in competition. We're collaborators. And we're collaborating to build excellence. Um I mentioned before um our strategic plan, and one of the things I'm excited about is that like we really center um this idea about economic mobility, the ability to utilize education to really transform outcomes and lives. And when you think about where our schools are located south of I-20, we know um that to be in Atlanta, one of the unfortunate circumstances is that you know, if you're raising in in certain zip codes in the city, your chances of moving from the lowest economic um level into the middle class um is four to five percent. And that should hit us all like a gut punch.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

And Dr. Cormack, I'm so glad you say that because we've been seeing all these graphics and people talk about below I-20, and for our listeners and viewers who are not in Atlanta, that's the interstate I-20 that goes east and west in our city. But people who live south of that actual interstate, they are they're basically born with so many struggles and so many opportunities that they can't control. But the fact that you're saying that all of your schools are south of 20, I mean, you guys are doing that work every single day. Like people talk about it, but you're in there educating these kids.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Absolutely. There are kids, and all means all, and we've got to provide the opportunity. And so that's why we really want to center um around this idea of college preparation for all. And because I think as we think about what it really means to live a choice-field life and for you to um, you know, declare your declaration about like what it is that you wanted to do, you know, after graduation, it's an exciting thing when you are fully prepared and accepted to a college, or you've got the option of a of a career where you can support a family and you know, have what you need and the wherewithal to like really like lean into that and pursue your the fullness of your God given potential. That's really what um this work is all about. And that's that really is the kind of the center of the work that we hope to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

So, Dr. Cormack, who is that? Educator mentor that was instrumental in your life and helping you dedicate your life and service to helping kids. And also talk about being a dad. I know when I hear you talk, you make speeches, you always talk about being a dad and your three children. So how is how how are you finding time to be a present dad, but also leading a major organization like Kipalana?

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah, so when I when I think about uh educators that that changed my life, um I'm really I think about my own family and think about the influence of my mom. Um though she wasn't a formal educator, she just really instilled in me the power of education. I'm the oldest of of three. And um there was always that press as the oldest to like set the example, to blaze the path. And I definitely, I think, did that for my brothers and sisters, but that was the expectation to whom much is given, much is required. I heard that all the time. But I also think about my uncle, my uncle uh Donald. Uh Donald Dixon uh was a longtime counselor and educator in Portland Public Schools. He um worked at Jefferson High School for 41 years. Wow. And in the center of the black community in Portland. And, you know, I I say all the time, I I can connect Black Portland to my Uncle Donald, but his lived experience to have anybody to speak on him and to be at his retirement celebration and to see the generations that he impacted from the late 70s to uh the you know the mid-teens. Uh I mean it just was it was dynamic. And so that was the example. He would always say, uh, no matter what you study in in college, uh minor in education, you'll you'll never go hungry. Um you'll always have you'll always have a job. And so that was that was his mindset. Um and he just had just such a tremendous impact on all of his uh of his students to meet people and to interact with them. He he definitely set a standard. Um and he set a standard, you know, uh also for you know for fatherhood. And uh, you know, I could I could see that. Um and so when I think about my own three kids, um Kennedy, Madison, Max, um I want to, as CEO of Kip Atlanta Schools, create schools that are good enough for my kids. That's the reality of education, is to, you know, like I want to live in and to be in a space where like I can say that these are schools where I would send my kids. And and that's the that and that's the reality, and that's the experience. And so everywhere I've been, from Quitman County uh in rural Mississippi where I was a principal, you know, I rolled my my three-year-old uh in our pre-K program, and it made such a difference uh when you have got some skin in the game. Um, you know, and in uh in Jackson, you know, my kids were Jackson Public School scholars. Um, it creates a level of urgency when you can see it both from the systems leader side and from the dad side because you you you move different um because you want to create schools that are genuinely excellent. And so that's my track record. Um, and and that's the that's the energy that I that I look to bring.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

I'm gonna have to go to um Portland with you because I've never been. Okay. Um and I've been to Jackson, Mississippi, a couple of times. I have a sister who lives at Aberdeen, Mississippi. Okay, yeah. And so, uh, but definitely want to go to Portland. So next we're gonna go into the segment of the podcast, which we called Final Take. So I'm gonna ask you some rapid fire questions. So number one. Are you ready? Okay, ready? Ready or not? Atlanta traffic or Mississippi humidity, which is worse? Ooh, Jesus. Uh Mississippi humidity. Portland or Atlanta, which city has your heart? Uh Atlanta. Okay. Best thing about Atlanta so far. Ooh. Uh lemon pepper wings. One word to describe Kip Atlanta's future. Right. What's your final take on education in Atlanta? Moving. If there's one thing that you want people to look at your life and legacy when you're done running Kip Atlanta, when they talk about Dr. Cormac and your tenure here and your legacy, what do you want the people of Atlanta to say?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I want uh them to say that I led with heart and that I made an impact. Um, that uh that their children were better for it.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Well, thank you, man, for coming on. We appreciate it. And three things are gonna come from this podcast. Number one, we're gonna go eat some lemon pepper wings. There we go. Um, what's your favorite spot so far? Ooh, don't uh don't why would you do that? Okay. How about this? We're gonna I got a couple spots. I don't want to get blasted. Yeah, we're gonna go uh do that, and then we're gonna also go to Portland. I've never been to Portland, and uh definitely, man, next time you're at Jackson, let me know. Um I know you're very busy these days, but I just want to Labor Day weekend.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Labor Day weekend the battle of the bands. So HBCUs from around the Southeast uh will be there for Labor Day weekend. So uh that'll definitely be a Jackson weekend uh to remember. All right, I'm gonna take you up on that. And I continue to teach uh a little adjunct in at Jackson State, so uh that's also a very special place.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Awesome. Well, thank you, Dr. Courtman, for coming on, man. Thank you for what you do every single day for our children, um, working with parents, working to make sure that there's a pathway to college for so many of our young people. And uh man, you know, I have the honor and pleasure of working with you all. So anything we can do over here at Therrence Take, we'd love to have you come back. Um check in maybe with you a year actually after being on the job. But again, just thank you so much for making time. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. All right. Thank you for watching and listening to Therrence Take. Please follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok. And wherever you get your podcast, please download Therrence Take. Share with a friend and drop a rating.