💛 Self-Awareness Isn’t Enough: Why You’re Still Repeating the Same Patterns with Anna K.

You can be incredibly self-aware… and still feel stuck in the same patterns.

In this episode, we explore why knowing isn’t the same as changing and what it actually takes to shift.

Most women I work with are deeply self-aware. They’ve done the journaling, the therapy, the reflection, and yet still find themselves repeating the same patterns in relationships, work, and decision-making.

In this conversation with Anna K, we explore why self-awareness alone isn’t enough to create real change. We talk about identity, nervous system patterns, and the subtle ways we continue to abandon ourselves to feel safe, accepted, or in control.

We also explore what it looks like to move beyond the “healing phase” and step into true self-trust, authorship, and aligned living.

In this episode:

• Why self-awareness doesn’t automatically lead to change
• How identity patterns are formed (and why they’re hard to break)
• The role of the nervous system in repeating familiar behaviors
• What it really takes to shift from self-abandonment to self-trust

🔗 Resources

• Return to Truth Workshop (EFT + identity work)
• Therapeutic Writing Experience
• Private Coaching with Anna K

Past Episode with Anna K: The one about Embodiment

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome back to An Intuitive Life. This is Elena Lipson, your intuitive coach and mentor for all things messaging, intuition, and identity. And I have a special guest today who's actually been here before. And I can link the first episode back, or I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was amazing. And I'll link it below. Welcome back to Anna Kiachinski, aka Anna Kay. She is a facilitator and a coach supporting women to move from self-abandonment to sovereignty through nervous system work, identity reclamation, and embodied creative expression, blending therapeutic depth with a direct, grounded approach. She guides high-functioning women back to self-trust, authorship, and aligned living. Hello and welcome, Anna.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Hello, hello. It's so lovely to be back.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

I know. I just I was remembering this morning, I was like, oh yeah, it was a while ago, and we talked about embodiment back then. And you walked us through a really cool, simple, like really usable in the moment exercise for, I think it was getting to like your yes or no in your body, if I remember correctly. And we we all need that because we need to understand, you know, as we talk about intuition here quite a bit, and embodiment is one of the big, I would say, pathways to listening to your intuition. I think without it, I will venture to say you really cannot tap into your full, your full somatic intuition at least, right? There's a somatic intuition, there's mental intuition, there's a whole world of intuition, which is why we have a podcast called An Intuitive Life. So there's so many things we can talk about. First of all, um would you like to just like say what you love about what you do, real quick, or just you know, why you got why you're doing what you're doing, and then what excites you most about it is always where I love to start.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

The thing that excites me most about the work that I do is um there's so much more movement that I have seen in my clients in shifting beyond the framework of healing and into the framework of remembering and remembering our inherent wholeness and our inherent sovereignty and this kind of um activation that comes on board when we step into authorship and moving beyond the kind of like victimhood mindset of like these are the things that have happened to me, and these are the things that were handed to me, and really stepping into like accountability and recognizing that that sets you up, like when you have an agentic standpoint on your life, there's there's a bitter pill of like, okay, um, I have to own that I allow these things, but then there's an immediate choice that comes after that of I can I can choose to not allow it moving forward. And so the thing that I just love witnessing is the tenacity of the spirit and like the human spirit and that willingness to to step into that. And you know, it's it's very brave, it's very courageous, it's very difficult. Um, but it's the the return on investment of that is huge. And so I feel incredibly honored to witness my clients coming to those thresholds of remembrance and thresholds of, you know, standing at that place of um not this. And that is that's like a big piece of my work is ushering women through the thresholds of, you know, whether they've built the empire or they've done the thing or they've been everything for everyone, and this, that, and the other, and they're recognizing the lack of fulfillment and the lack of their own uh sovereignty and their own self-possession and how that has slowly kind of drained away from them. And so the thing that you know just lights me up about my work is witnessing when women start tasting their own like sustenance, all of the things that they have like been leaking and giving and kind of prostrating themselves into this eternal summer of service. And when they start to like practice these, you know, restraint and containment and you know, harnessing their animus and harnessing their inner masculine energy and like protecting their resources of their time and energy and the amount of life force that becomes available to them, and then from that place, helping them steward that it it is just it's just an incredible um position that I have the honor of being in and witnessing what happens when a woman reclaims her power.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah, I love that. I mean, so many things you said we can sort of use as touch points to have an entire series of conversations. One of the things that really stood out is the threshold piece. It feels like a woman's life is a series of thresholds. So, really, it every, you know, like there's the milestones, there's the um sort of seasons we go through, hence the name of your company is Seasons of Myself, right? And I I love that. I remember talking to you about it way back when when you were developing this brand. And I just thought it's so beautiful because it really speaks to our capacity to change and our capacity to be what we need to be in each season. But now we have this opportunity to like consciously step through a threshold and say, actually, what parts of myself have I been not really aligned with or been like conditioned to by society, by family, by trauma, by all the things that happen to us as we just live our life, you know, all the things that happen around us. Sometimes it's not even what happens to us, it's what happens within a proximity of us that really creates a relationship to other people or masculine and feminine, a really skewed way, I'll say, like whether it's through finances or through relationships or through your own health, we start to see like, oh, wait a minute, where have I not been being myself? And then, well, wait a minute, what does it mean to be myself? And then to have a guide to take you through that, I think is really, really powerful, which is I think why we both got into the the kind of work that we do is because, well, probably because we've been doing the work ourselves for ourselves in our own process for many years, right? And then it sort of comes into different modalities. One of the things that is really interesting that you talked about also, or and also I know as part of your work. So the last episode we talked about embodiment. We really focused on that and how to be in your body, how to recognize the signals of your body, how to be present in your life. And now it's it's of course, I think the not only you and I in our own work, but I think as a collective, we're understanding more and we're pulsing out our capacity to talk about identity in a new way. And so the combination of like embodiment, which is our last conversation, and bringing that in bridging it with identity now feels very important because what are you embodying? Like what exactly are you continuing to embody your past? Are you just are you just starting to understand that being in your body is a thing? And how do I, how, how do I then experience that? So I'd love to hear and really just maybe dialogue about it between you and I, because I think we approach it similarly, but also through different lenses in terms of modalities and tools. Like, how do you, how do you now move through the bridge of helping someone like move through all the things you help? Because you're you're a trained clinical therapist and you're also somatically trained, and you've got like, you know, EFT and you've got parts and you've got all these beautiful tools that you use. How do you how do you talk about identity, first of all? Like, how do you see identity in terms of embodiment and then helping someone like move through that threshold and shift into whatever it is that they're wanting, or even trying to figure out what it is that they want in this in us in their season that they're coming to you with? Because they're probably coming to you at a threshold, like standing right at it. Like I see it, maybe I don't see it, but I see something. I don't know what I need help, like hold my hand, help me through. Like, how do you help? What I guess what is identity in terms of embodiment, and then how do you how do you bridge that or how do you help someone step into that?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, I loved your question of like, okay, so you're embodying, but what are you embodying? Um, or who? And I think that is so crucial. Um, one of the, you know, one of the entry questions that I start with clients a lot is what rules do you live by? And we almost always jump to like our morals and our ethics and our standards and our values. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. What rules? Like what like thinking like can't, shouldn't, must, and you know, whether that's like the strong one or the helper, the responsible one, the good girl, all of these things that you know really box you in and create this sense of I have to continue being this or else. And you know, when I look at identity, so often the way that our identity has been formed is through our young psyche and our young body trying desperately to position us for belonging and connection. And we assess that in split seconds, like pre-verbal, if not pre-verbal, definitely before the age of seven, where we have this sense of like, okay, this is who I need to be in order to significantly increase the likelihood that I will a be accepted and belong, or be loved, or be safe. And so that gets cemented in, and we really do think that that is who we are. And so so much of the work is you know, recognizing like in what ways were you conditioned, and in what ways have you learned to maintain this identity, typically through like the main thing that I work with women around is self-abandonment. And so, self-abandonment, like in my mind, is anytime you leave your body, your truth, your desires, your wants, your needs to sustain a connection or a dynamic or an expectation. And so, in so many ways, like that is kind of our identity becomes the ways in which we're willing to leave ourselves, or I should say, like our conditioned identities are that. And so, you know, when you start to approach that from the body, it's almost kind of like a uh we like flip the model on its head, in that it's not always we're looking like what's the identity and how do we undo it. We start tracking the patterns of when are you most prone to leaving yourself and for what and for whom, and in maintenance of what. So it's often like in maintenance of someone's perception of you, or in maintenance of someone's need of you, or in maintenance of your need to be needed, or your need to be perceived in a certain way. And so we can kind of gather those and look at that from like a pattern recognition standpoint of like, okay, are there some themes here? Or, you know, what box does this feel like? And, you know, there is this really nice cookie-cutter idea of like there are some pretty like prescribable identities, like I mentioned, like the good girl and the responsible one and the wise one and this that. But there's also, I mean, they're so convoluted too. And so, you know, it's not necessarily this like neat and tidy um worksheet that we move through. Why it's not like three-step process. Yes, I know, but it, you know, because it's the body and because it's so dynamic in that way around different ways that we have connected with people in lieu of what's true for us, then you know, it is it's messy work. And so, you know, the you know, the process that I take my clients through is primarily unlearning. And then there's like a little bit of a void state, kind of what you were saying, of like, you know, when we dismantle it all, and we don't yet really know, like if I'm not looking externally for someone to tell me who to be, but I have only ever done that, and now I've let that kind of all burn down. Who am I? And so, you know, the next phase is building that internal scaffolding and building that structure of in some regard, there is this like remembrance of, you know, there's always this kind of pulsing truth within you of your inherent self. And in other ways, there's a lot of choice. And, you know, to my earlier point, like the choosing part can feel extremely daunting because it's like, wait a minute, you can you wait, I can just decide who I want to be. And the responsibility that comes with that is matched by the freedom that comes with that, but you have to be able to step into, okay, I am no longer a product of something, I am choosing this. And so there is this real um disintegration process. There's like a void process that involves a lot of grief, a lot of like sensing into, you know, what is my body in regard to a sense of safety? What does connection feel like? What does my yes feel like? What does my no feel like? What are my boundaries? And what of those things are still tethered to past memories? And how can I essentially dissolve those so that I can move into this really like authored version and authored like sovereignty of I'm I'm stepping into deciding. And there's this charge that comes with it that's incredibly um erotic and like arousing in this like life force, like you're you're turned on for life because like you're finally living from your body and from your truth. And you need pretty significant internal structure to withstand that because you don't have the luxury of blaming anybody anymore. Like you have to you have to be able to like weather and stand on like this is who I am, and it's no longer because it's a byproduct of something that happened to me. And so there's this real um, I mean, it it's a real journey.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah, yeah, it's funny because I was thinking the word freedom when you were talking about that inner scaffolding, and I kind of just you know saw the visual of this like breaking down all the rules, which as a side note, just recently I was driving, I'm like, God, I used to have so many rules, like just about all these little things. Like, wouldn't it be interesting to just drive with it, or just not or I guess walk through life with a little notebook? And like every time I encounter one of those moments of like, this is how it should be. Wait, like who said it's supposed to be like this? Who said that this is how it's supposed to go, or this is how how this interaction is supposed to go? So I like I totally understand that and feel also the the other side of that, the shadow side of like that freedom, which is oh shit, like I now have to decide. I just like I get to decide, but I have to decide because right, because there's a real luxury and release of like having something for you because then you get to blame someone else. Look what you did, look what you caused, look how you affected me, look how you made me feel. And those are real, like very tangible feelings sometimes, like of that. Like, how do you how could you do this to me? And you know, people do things to each other for sure. Yeah, what we're sort of describing is this crossing into that place of deciding, like not by any means like going around it or bypassing it or releasing someone from the responsibility of whatever the actions might have been, you know, and and I'm sure as I'm saying it, people have like a million ideas of what that could be. It could be from a simple argument to like real things that happened in their childhood, but you do get to a place of like, oh, and what if then this like really pulling all that wisdom from it and easier said than done. So I know this process isn't like in four weeks, you'll have a new identity and a full thing, and you'll be like fully ready to make all your decisions with 100% self-trust, right? No, it's a it's a forever journey. I think once you do step into that, it's not really like, well, I did that now, and now I'm this person, I'm this new person, and now I get to like fully own my life. It's a great thought. But of course, those tendrils of habits and tendrils of old identities are very in the patterns and how we're wired. So I'm curious, like in terms of identity and self-concept, like I know for me, and I'm I'm literally doing this work all the time, but really acutely right now. Like I think what we chatted early, I shared I started working with this therapist who's super spiritual, so it like makes sense to my brain. We can have these conversations, and she gets what I'm saying when I'm like going into the whole more ethereal ways of seeing the world. And gosh, it's been like exactly what you're talking about, and it's been a long, and I've been doing this sort of work for a long time and helping others do, you know, work. But of course, when we do it ourselves, it's very vulnerable, it's very confronting, and it's very um humbling, but also empowering, like you said, at the same time. Um, how do you how do you see, like, when someone steps into this new version, what are what are a some of the stumbling blocks you see? Maybe I mentioned a couple of them, like just the old patterns coming back. And then what on the other side, like what are some of the new ways of decision making do you see? Because I'm obsessed with decision making as well. I have a whole quiz about it. Like, I really think it's it's a very important um aspect of ourselves to understand how we make decisions and what drives them. So, what do you see as the stumbling blocks? And what do you see as some of the like empowering decision tools that help to build that new scaffolding around the new identity?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, you kind of touched on this with like the freedom and responsibility piece, but something that I see often is, you know, we there's this really sexy idea of like, oh, I mean, I'm not a victim anymore. I'm I'm letting go of the identity of a martyr. And it's like, yeah, that that's great. But like if you're not a victim anymore, then you are responsible for your reality. Or if you're not a martyr anymore, who are you gonna blame? And so there's always this underbelly, and that I think is a big piece. And you know, coming back to the piece of you know, these traits and identities and patterns and habits come on board so young. And it is like there's so much compassion in this work too, because they come on board that young because they are wise and they are trying to create safety for us. And so it it can be tempting to, you know, when we pinpoint an identity that, you know, quote unquote, it doesn't serve me anymore, and I want to get rid of it, and it feels really nice to get rid of it, um, to villainize it. But there's there's this preceding work that I certainly implement and I think that is deeply important of having compassion and thanking it for the ways that it did keep you safe for so long. Um, but recognizing that your body's main job is safety and predictability and belonging. And so it's going to protest. You know, when you take the security blanket off, like a stumbling block, I guess you could say, is the protest that comes up in your body is like, wait a damn minute, I worked really hard to create that and it worked really well. And you are trying to get rid of it, and what comes next? And now I'm exposed. And it, you know, I think in a lot of ways, this work because we are removing these layers, it exposes really young parts of us. And when we start moving through the world in new ways, we feel young. And when we feel young, we feel incompetent. And I think that I watch my clients, they couple incompetence with a sense of I must be doing it wrong, because we're so used to competence in something that is familiar. And so we feel confident doing it and we label it as right because we're like, I feel like I know what I'm doing, therefore I must be doing the right thing. And so when we start moving in new ways and you feel like you're 12 years old again and you have no idea what you're doing, the shame story or the part of you that really prefers to feel like an adult is going to be like, well, if you were doing the right thing, it you should feel better at it than what you're doing. And so we, you know, there's this really slippery temptation to go back to old ways, not even because they're fruitful and we can have a cognitive awareness of the fact that they are not generative towards our wholeness, but that. We feel like we know what we're doing, and that's a better feeling for our ego. And in a lot of ways, it's a better feeling for our body because it's so familiar. And so, like the stumbling blocks are the protest of your body who has worked really hard to create these patterns of safety, even if it's incredibly stifling for your truth and your soul and your spirit and your heart and your dreams. Your body's like, hey, I we I got a system. Don't mess with my system. But then I think the other stumbling box is that we really we just like to feel like we are good at something. And so when we start moving in unfamiliar ways, we're very susceptible to feeling like a child. And that can feel that in and of itself can feel really dangerous or very silly. Um, and so that's I think when I watch most of my clients slip up and kind of revert back to old ways because they want to feel like an adult again.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah. Slip up. That's I mean, I can totally like I can totally feel the the the pattern of like doing something that you used to do, feeling good, but also and I let's explore that a little bit more. Like when you say you feel young, is it is it are you referring to like because you've identified with a part of yourself that's young or because you're just like starting from scratch in terms of like a new sense of who you are? Like what is that youngness? Is that part of like a new I think it's I think it's both.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I think it's both like you know, you've kind of gone back to whenever that initial identity or pattern came on board. You know, it's like I I started using X when I was 12. So if I remove X, I don't know how to be 27 without X. I only know how to be 12 without X. And so there's kind of this like reverting back. But I think within that newness or a sense of, you know, if just in the same sense of like, I'm sure the first time that you went to your salsa dancing class, you were like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And I like there's certain elements of it that maybe felt like intuitive and like enlivening, but like how kind of like silly and behind, and like, wait, wait, what's going on? That you know, it makes you feel young in the sense of the last time that we were learning at that rate, we were young. And so especially if you, you know, if clients are, you know, they've been really like they're just crushing it at something, or like they've got a really secure identity that like works, but it's slowly killing them, and like they haven't been challenging themselves to be like a lifelong learner. Like the the very like stature of someone who is learning anything is you feel like a beginner, and most of us couple that sense of feeling like a beginner to the last time that we were learning at that level, which was likely when we were significantly younger.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah, it's so funny. I feel like I just went through this with a process that I'm doing right now. Um, and I feel like I sort of did it, but I'm also a little bit questioning it now. So one of the things that I discovered for about myself was that when I was a teenager and in like my late teens, I was in a position where I had to be very serious about my like what I was choosing for college and like I just had to be serious because I was sort of living alone essentially. And um I like really suppressed a lot of creativity and choosing things for just the exploration or the joy, like you know, for someone who and so few of us had like the perfect anything, right? Like fully supportive parents, unlimited resources and time and like all of that. So so that was not, it wasn't like a martyr place. It was like interesting. I I sort of cut that off. I cut off exploration of creativity, sort of define myself as creative in some ways, but not in others. Like I had all these little rules around it. And so one of the things that the therapist that I'm working with now challenged me to do is to like heal that part of myself and to like now I have the spaciousness, I have the capacity and the resourcefulness and the agency to do something creative. And I've been really sitting with that, and it's been very difficult. Like, I see the choices, they're not, they shouldn't be difficult. Like you just do it. And I'm like, I kind of went through all these different choices and then how to bring it back to my work, and like I kind of made it very mental. And then I ended up deciding on doing this little, you might have seen it, like my little creativity practice of drawing flowers with hands, which seems really good. Like, good girl, I did it. However, I'm just realizing as we're talking, that's not a new thing for me. I've always drawn, I've always I have pens galore, I have journals everywhere, like I'm always drawing and doodling. It's not a new exploration for me. Like committing to a hundred days of it. Okay, okay, it's there's an angle to that, like where I commit to something every day. But I really didn't choose something that made me feel like a beginner because I felt like whatever I can draw a little flower, it's cute, it's fun doing it. It gives me like a little meditation moment. But I'm like, okay, Elena, like, let's be honest. Like, did you really choose something that was just so limitless just for the pure joy of it, or was it just a check mark? And I I can see now that it is a check mark, even though I will still keep doing it because I really enjoy it. It's fun to do. It's like my part of my little journaling practice. And okay, like now I really, really do. And I don't know, I don't know that I have the answer yet, which is really good. It's okay. Like I'm okay with not knowing right now, but I'm I I do see how I chose something that was very comfortable and very easy and yeah, fun, but I don't think it's a challenge create or not even a challenge creatively, like it's not opening a new door within me.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

It's just sort of like a little bit of a returning, but I mean yeah. I I mean incredible noticing on your part. I think that that, you know, there's like such fertile like fertile ground in your willingness to like clock that. Um, because I think that there is this too. It's like, oh, I'm gonna return to these things that I did in my youth and I'm gonna let myself be bad at them again. But if there's like maybe a little bit of like an inherent like, but I kind of know what I'm doing. So, like, you know, and there's not like a right or wrong way to draw a flower, right? Um, and so I do think that there is something, even from like a neuroplasticity standpoint, of like when you are truly learning something that you have no idea what you're doing. Like, um, for the last couple of months, I have been learning the banjo, which I've never really played a string instrument before. And I started going to jujitsu, which is incredibly different from any way that I've ever moved my body. And it is astounding to me what comes up for me when, you know, if you pull all that together, I spent the last couple of months like four hours a week being bad at stuff. You know, it's like, and so there is this sense, like I think too, like not just recognizing that as how am I accessing these younger parts and how am I recognizing how to learn something, kind of come back to myself in this way, but we get so much information about ourselves in how we treat ourselves when we are in process. And I think that's like that's one of the beautiful byproducts of what you're doing is when you're learning something and you have no idea how to do it and no idea like who you are or what kind of person is the person that does this or this, that, and the other, is you learn like, am I compassionate with myself in process? If I if it takes me longer than I think it should, what's my cognitive narrative around that? If I, you know, if I really struggle and I'm finding a lot of resistance, do I fold to the resistance? Do I listen to the resistance and honor it and like you know, turn it on its head and look at it? Or do I just take that as like, oh, I must be bad at it. I'm gonna like toss it, like throw the baby out with a bathwater. And so, you know, anytime we're putting ourselves in the position, whether it's learning something new, or I think equally we learn a a lot about how we how we foster our inner narrative for ourselves, even when we're sick or injured, um, those are all inroads of information of the way that we have constructed our internal infrastructure through the ways that we talk to ourselves. And so when you intentionally put yourself in this, like, I'm gonna do something that I know that I'm going to be really bad at, the onslaught of information that you get about yourself is incredibly generative.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yeah, it's so good. And like my first response, even here, which is kind of cool, which is oh, interesting. Look what I did. So I do see like, and I, you know, I don't think I've been someone who really talks to myself super negatively, except that I've been in very intimate proximity with that that voice recently, like I can catch it pretty quickly. Um, but I I think for others, you know, and for anyone and for all of us, we have our own little Achilles heels version of this, right? Like where we are so, and it's usually not our voice, right? It's somebody, somebody that's important to us or someone that that we care is usually about their opinion. We might not think, like, know how much we do, but it's usually that, like, I guess on the most like benign side, it could be like, Are you sure? Are you good at that? It could just be like a doubt, a little seat of doubt, all the way to like, what are you even trying this for? You're you're not gonna do this at all. Like, you know, you're not gonna do it, you suck, right? Like, it's probably much worse. Like, we didn't we talk to ourselves pretty shitty. So, this is actually kind of a cool bridge into a concept that you talk about divine remembrance and the illusion of healing, because it feels like a really slippery slope into like there I did it, I'm all good now. Yeah, tell me a little bit about that. What is what is divine remembrance? Well, well, we did talk a little bit about that too in the beginning, but I guess are those two concepts that go together or those two separate concepts.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, I mean, I think that I I hear you, and that it is kind of slippery. And by no means do I mean any like spiritual bypassing. I just think that um something that I have noticed in my career as a therapist is that you know, there's this um kind of bridge that we start walking of like I'm on my healing journey or I'm healing, I'm healing, I'm healing, I'm healing. And in that, like on a healing journey, which, you know, if we break down what is a healing journey, is you've you're confronting your patterns, you're confronting what has happened to you, you're confronting the meaning you've given it, you're confronting the ways it's impacted you, and like the fears and the identities and the traumas and all this and that. And so, like it's an incredibly tender and fragile place to be in, much more fragile in a lot of ways than had you just kind of stuck in your trauma identity of like I'm hardening, I'm calcified, this is who I am, you know. And so when we step onto the bridge of like I'm healing or I'm on my healing journey, what I have seen is that there is a certain kind of um tenuousness that gets adopted where it can become a little bit of its own scapegoat of like I'm not going to, I'm not gonna do that thing because I'm still healing. I'm not gonna reach for that because I'm still healing, I'm not gonna challenge myself for that, I'm still healing. And I I watch people kind of set up camp in the narrative of the process of healing as this kind of destination of like I'm not healed yet, so therefore I can't live my life yet. And so when I say like the illusion of healing, like, and I understand that that's pretty like pretty hot take charge language, but I see it as this um it is a bridge and it is a process and it is a journey and it's a it's an aspect of it, you know, there's a chapter there that we absolutely need to move through, but I see so many people set up camp there. And so when I when I link those two concepts together, you know, I think that there is this, there is a season of confrontation, a season of, you know, being really tender with yourself and protecting yourself and kind of this form of, you know, sacred consecration of like, I am going to not ask myself to do certain things because either I don't trust myself yet, and the fallout from that would be more detrimental, or you know, I would create more chaos or whatever it may be. But there comes a time where when we are labeling it as I'm still healing, we in some ways have just kind of decided to rehearse the narrative of what we are healing from, and we have not yet chosen to step into like, okay, and now I'm going to be an agent of my life. And so when you bring in the concept of like divine remembrance into that, is I think that there's there is this, like you have to confront the things that have happened and the life that has occurred and the ways that it's impacted you. And then when you step into I'm ready to live now, I think that so much of the dissolution of your trauma identities is the divine remembrance of recognizing your inherent wholeness and choosing to move from that, even if it feels terrifying and terrifying in the sense of it is scary to move from like this is me. You know, like the the kind of luxury of having these um hats that we wear of you know, who everyone else has told us to be, is when those parts of us or those aspects of us are rejected, even if that's hurtful, we still have this teeny tiny little kernel inside where it's like, well, that wasn't really me. So they aren't really rejecting me. Like we know that the facade is kind of protective and that way, and it can cost us belonging, it can cost us like you know, social fallout and this, that. But there's still this awareness of it doesn't feel as raw as when we are moving in our true authentic nature because it's a it's a bit of an armor. And so when you step into like I am moving from my inherent wholeness and I'm choosing to live authentically, when I say that that's terrifying, is it's terrifying because like that really is you and you're leading with it, probably for the first time in your life, or certainly, you know, for the first time since childhood. And so you do need that infrastructure of like the healing journey that kind of gave you the tools and like the know-how and the processes and the awareness of self, but there comes a time where like you have to just decide to start living. And I think that what I have witnessed so much is that the terror of living authentically and exposing yourself and saying, This is who I am, and yes, I'm choosing to lead with this, I'm claiming it. No one gave me the permission, no one's handing me this like piece of paper that says you get to be this, which is the luxury of all the other identities, is someone else was like, You're this, and we're like, okay. But when we step into like, I'm an agent of my life, the the terror and the exposure that comes from that, um, is why I think so many people do set up camp and healing, is because it saves them in a socially acceptable, culturally conditioned way of not having to step into their authenticity. And so if we can always pull on this chain of I'm still healing or I'm not ready for that yet, then we're exempt. And so that I think is the illusion of like there there absolutely is a season for therapy and healing and moving in that way and learning those things about yourself and protecting yourself in that way and challenging yourself. But at some point it becomes its own cage.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yes. Oh, sorry, my my computer just did a weird thing, but you're back. I thought you, I thought you draw. We're here, we're good. Um I love what you're saying, and it feels like almost an identity, like you said, like it's it's got its benefits because you're exempt from all kinds of things, like taking risks and failing, and you just have this, you know, and and the healing journey, you know, it's got some cool bells and whistles too. You could just go into like some fun retreats and to reading good books and like all kinds of fun stuff. And I I, you know, I think there's a like you said, a time and place for that where we just sort of cocoon and into our little um chrysalis, I guess, and start breaking it down. But you do at some point have to like break it down because ultimately I do believe that we're not fragile. I do believe that we are so capable and so um able to make decisions for ourselves. And I know it comes from a place of like, you know, there are some people who have had significant trauma that really need, and that's why I think having having a good therapist, having a good, like informed coach who has really good tools, not just someone who decides that they've been on healing long enough and they want to now coach other people. And I've been in the coaching industry long enough to see all versions of that. Myself when I started at 24 was like the hubris and the arrogance. I was just talking to a fellow coach about it. I'm like, God, how arrogant and amazing I was at 24. Not like amazing as in like I'm amazing, but like to think I could, and I really did, and I did my best and I learned, but it came from some slices of embodiment. But you know, now 26 years later, there's a lot more embodiment that's happened, a lot more life that's been lived, to where I have like loads of compassion, loads of empathy, loads of experience, loads of humility, loads of like, yep. Like that's just that's okay. Like that's where we are. It's okay. We're not gonna rush it, we're not gonna squeeze you into some identity that doesn't work, we're gonna be okay with it. But also in the same breath, there's a real like, I think there's a compassion in saying, and we've been in this stage long enough. Let's let's hold it, let's hold a space for it, let's not push it away, let's like really create a container for it, where by it I mean like the healing process, because I think there's gonna be elements of it that we're always sort of pulling through, and to you know, as we continue to step into new thresholds of life and new experiences and and all that. So I love how you explained it. And I think there's so much just even the way you describe it, I can tell you have some real, really beautiful probably processes that you take your your clients through. So speaking of clients, who do you love to work with? Like who comes to you? Who do you love to just you know take through this process? Like what is your who's your client? Who is she?

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

I heard he or whoever, like I assume it's she, but it's probably not she.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

It's been a long time since I've worked with a man. Um, but you know, I heard you say earlier, like, you know, these women probably find you when they're stepping into a threshold. And almost always the clients come to me less when they're um, you know, knowingly like this is what's next, and more like when they're kind of at this junction of like, okay, not this. And usually it's when they have really succeeded at something that isn't theirs. Um, so you know, a lot of uh corporate women who are like, I feel dead inside and I and I don't want to anymore. Or, you know, women who have like been like super entrenched in motherhood and their kids are like finally starting to kind of get to school age and there's like a little bit more freedom, and it's like, okay, well, what about me? Or um, you know, selling a practice and going on sabbatical in Europe and like this kind of junction point of not necessarily having enough of the threads to pull on of like the um maybe the language of I'm ready to step into authorship, because I think a lot of women have never even really been given that language that that's an option. And so more so the women that I work with, like they've they've done the therapy, like they know they they're like, and this is how my mom treated me, and this is how this wound is, and this is the type of man I typically attract, and they can like name it all, but they're still watching themselves live it all. And so, in in a lot of ways, I think that my ideal client is a woman who is incredibly self aware, but the self awareness has become its own ceiling, and in some ways it can bring a whole new layer of shame because like they know themselves, but they're just watching themselves do it anyways. And so that's where when we, you know, drop into the nervous system and the body and the identity work and the self concept and kind of so much permission granting and really putting a fire under their ass, they kind of come to this place of like, oh, wait a minute, I can choose. And I do a lot of like that building up of an agency and handing them kind of the um not even handing them the permission slip, but like charging them with like it's your turn to be the one to give yourself permission. And what are you going to give yourself permission to do? And so that um recognition of you know the healing has become its own stalling circling. We're just practicing all the ways that we aren't ready to live life yet. And you know moving them towards like I'm actually ready to live differently outside of just explaining why I'm living this way. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

I love that. And I and I I definitely saw myself in parts of that. And I think you know you and I have had many, many conversations about all kinds of things. So I know your work is really um thoughtful and well resourced as are you. What are some of the things that you offer to people who want to like just find out about more about this work that you're doing, more about the embodied identity work. What kind of offerings are you offering at this moment for lack of better art?

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Yeah I've got a couple things that I'm cooking um I have a workshop that I lead that's called Return to Truth. And it is an EFT workshop and energetic contract clearing and there's like a little bit of a lecture and discussion and then some science behind kind of the intersection of you know the actual science behind it and some like mysticism and spiritual aspects of that work. And then a you know I take you through a meditation and some pretty uh confronting journal prompting that kind of tills the soul and then leading you through several rounds of EFT and kind of giving you that language of recognizing and kind of putting you in the position of when you are saying the things that you are willing to let go of or when you are stating what you have asked of yourself for so long, the amount of emotion that comes up for release is incredibly informative and um that can become its own inroad. So I think that the thing that I love about that workshop is it's a complete experience within itself and almost always you walk away from that of like oh I have this new awareness of how much these things feel really true for me or how much I've abandoned this or um the ways in which this has felt like a huge like burden or shackle upon my life. And so I do have one of those coming up um on April 1st. And as a virtual workout yes and then um I have kind of like a mid-tier offer I offer a therapeutic writing course and it's neither therapy nor writing specific. We use writing as a tool and in in a lot of ways it's exposure therapy because we you know we drop into the body with specific types of movement as giving you kind of like the tasting menu of how different types of movement movement can access your body in different ways. And then I read a prompt and they write a response and then right after everyone's done writing we share our responses and we give feedback. And so the thing that I love about this is you are practicing the exposure of creative expression and being seen in you know you don't have time to perfect it you don't have time to edit it. You are just truly in process and being seen in process but also it's um something that I didn't really think about when I was forming this but I have witnessed and it has become an incredibly generative layer is how vulnerable we feel giving feedback of how someone else has made us feel and so there's the creative expression and like being seen and like here's this thing that I just created and that's really tender. But also it's such a beautiful and terrifying practice of receiving and receiving both feedback and also naming someone else's impact on you. And you know they're strangers and so you're telling a stranger hey this thing that you wrote evoked this in me which means that you know you're naming a reality for yourself in doing that. Like it resonates within you because you know that pain or it resonates within you because you've had that struggle. And so it's exposure therapy via creative expression and you know practicing the art of receiving. And then beyond that I have um a private coaching container that's a six month container where we have one-on-one sessions and integration weeks and you know they get Voxer access to me for some boots on the ground support around um you know hey hey I need help setting this boundary or hey like I you know I want to put a pin in this so that we can really spend time in my body and it in session. And that's the container that I was alluding to before where you know we spend the first half doing some disintegrating and then the second half is when we start building that infrastructure back up.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

All that sounds very powerful. I'm like I want that one I want that one you know I I love the experiential pieces and of course what you bring to it because I could just feel the sort of the power of all those elements of of both being in your body with people you don't know then creating something like as I said I'm I'm exploring the creativity and then also the piece of giving feedback and receiving I think that's for some you know we learn through relationship so much like we we need those mirrors we don't know essentially where our edges are until we're confronted with someone who's seeing us in a certain way or or like in what I've been experiencing like wow I did not know that about myself like it's just keeps clicking out out out like wow what else don't I know about myself so there's a real like you said the disintegration piece and the rebuilding and that whole experience sounds amazing. We'll definitely share all the links in the um the show notes because April 1st I think we'll we'll get this you're listening to it now. So and if they do happen to listen to it after it's gone is there like a wait list they can get on if that page is no is not active for April 1st yeah and that's a workshop that I will I run pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

So there will be there will be another for sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Are there sign up if you miss the April 1st and you're listening to it later beauty of podcasting um you can just sign up for the next one. And I I couldn't join the last one but I might just I know because I know you it's hard for me to like be super vulnerable okay but maybe I'll just sort of challenge myself to to just pay with that because that is one of my one of my little like Achilles like moments where I I can sort of choose when to be vulnerable but some sometimes it's harder than others depending on who's in the room but then it but the truth right of like well if I can just be who I am wherever I am sounds really nice. But also there's a piece of like I'm being seen by someone who knows about me or knows me. It's it's a really difficult thing to do. But but I think that is one of my shadows that I've been told multiple times by people who I trust and value that I could be more vulnerable and I'm like I don't even know what that means because I just feel like I'm myself. So all that to say I might whoever's listening I might just join you there. So just there don't tell me you see me.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

No just yeah just look at me when you look at me for what it's worth the return to the return to truth workshop um is you know not interactive. So you're safe there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

But I like the other one. Yeah. I mean they both sound amazing but I I love that sort of um the that the piece of like going deeper of of movement and creation and witnessing and feedback. I think that sounds really deliciously juicy. So yeah yeah absolutely it is we would love to have you thank you thank you well either this one or or you'll know I'm working through coming to the next one. So healing is happening in real time here, okay? Plus action plus action. So we'll do that. So Anna thank you so much for being here for sharing I just want to reflect how just also like poetic and also like solid information that is also we didn't even get into the mystic part and I really wanted to because now I'm like I just sort of forgot to go there because we were talking about so many really beautiful sort of concepts that you do. So maybe we'll have a part three or maybe and I will just hop on for a coffee chat and because I want to I do want to hear more about that because I for me the mystic piece of like you know identity being an alchemical process which is like it just sort of downloaded today I'm like oh my God identity is alchemical what does that mean? So I want to you know because I do think through the experiential through the embodiment through the somatic piece you do change your chemistry you do change your identity whether you're really acknowledging or knowing or claiming it yet there is something happening through all of these like generative I love that word generative processes that are are sort of inviting the growth whether you're intending it or not it's happening and maybe you don't really even understand how much you're changing in that moment but then three six nine months later you're like oh wait I reacted totally differently my experience of the situation is different. I could see it feel it more than I did six months ago and I think that's the beauty of the somatic piece and throw a little dash of mysticism in there too and some of the tools. So thank you for bringing all of that and also curiosity to learn more and I hope everyone's feeling that that curiosity to like see parts of themselves in the things that you were saying because I for sure did and I just want to thank you for that. And I I did I see that you're coming out with a poetry book too because I love poetry. Oh gosh um no I was no it's on your website I'm gonna show you it's on your website uh oh unbecoming I like totally that was oh you're like oh that that shows you how often I update my bio um hilarious humbling um I that is the working title of a book that I'm working on I just it has been obviously significantly back burner that's awesome but yes um that is maybe bring it bring it to the surface a little bit again because you're writing and and please follow Anna on Instagram because even just there your writing and your reflections is already very poetic and you kind of see the seeds of probably hopefully what will be created at some point someday if you choose to do it. So if I remember the things that I remember you you're doing quite a bit yeah thank you so much for being here Anna it was it was a real pleasure and um yeah so much for having me back and um it's just I I appreciate our relationship and the conversations that we have and you know there's there's so much history here and all the walks we used to take and all the bonding over human design and it's just really lovely to connect we didn't even share like that we met through our dogs and our you know your dog ran up to my dog and I'm like okay everyone stay calm mostly myself like it's okay that that was the start of some really cool things and I still love making anchovy butter which I tried for the first time at your full moon full moon new moon one of the moons dinner and it was beautiful I dream about that butter. I know I honestly do I'm like I'm I'm gonna go make it again today I just got some anchovies it's so good. See there's a lot more stories so maybe maybe there will be a part three so thank you thank you and we'll see you on the next episode of an intuitive life