What Good Leadership Actually Looks Like With Jessica Wright

The best leaders don't have all the answers. They trust themselves enough to find them.

Jessica Wright is a leadership coach who works with leaders ready to ditch the performance and lead from who they actually are. This conversation is warm, honest, and full of the kind of wisdom that applies way beyond the boardroom.

• What separates authentic leaders from those who make you feel itchy just being around them
• Why self-trust is the real foundation of leadership confidence
• How intuition shows up at work, even when nobody calls it that
• The loneliness of leadership and what to do about it
• How to spot the inner voices quietly running your decisions

Resources:

• Free Saboteur Assessment + session with Jessica
• Illustrating Leadership Podcast
• Connect with Jessica on LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back to An Intuitive Life. This is Alina Lipson, your intuitive coach and mentor, and your psychic dancer. That's my new, my new tagline. I'm so excited today. This conversation actually has been a long time in the coming. I've known Jessica for several years now. We've been like circling around each other, and I just got to be interviewed on her podcast, which will be coming out really soon. And Jessica Wright is a life and career development coach for leaders who want to build confidence while learning to lead with more care, creativity, and connection. She's also the host of the Illustrating Leadership Podcast and creator of the Illustrating Leadership Summit. When she's not coaching and podcasting, Jessica is chasing her naughty Dachshund. We'll make sure we link your Instagram because he's the cutest, Hershey, looking for her next cup of coffee or trying to finish one of her many craft projects. Very jealous because I would like I love the idea of crafting, but I never quite get there. Anyway, welcome, Jessica. So so glad to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Thank you, Elena. It is great to be here. Yeah, I'm the queen of starting a crochet or knitting project or a watercolor project and then never quite finishing it because I get excited about something else then. Um, but you know what? It's okay. I'll get around to it someday.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, I think those are it's how it's supposed to be. It's like serial, you know, interests I think are great. Like I think there's a few people who have like that one dedicated hobby, like they do all the time. But I think exploration is amazing. Like I actually tried to go to Michael. Well, I didn't try to go. I did go to Michael's because I'm exploring my creativity. And I literally like walked around. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what to do. Like everything just seems okay. Like nothing's crazy, like to, or I guess self-initiating is a little difficult. So I ended up getting surprise, surprise, a beautiful box of new pens, drawing pens. Ooh, I love it. Which I have many of. I got a new box. And I didn't even get a new drawing book because I already have one. So I just started like a new little daily drawing flowers thing just to like give me a place. And I have done like drawing challenges before. And um, it's just like you put away the phone, you know, and just sit for like 10 minutes and just draw. It's it's surprisingly focusing and centering for me. So I can just sort of like do something without my phone present, which as soon as the phone's around, I'm I'm in danger. Like my creativity is in danger, my intuition's in danger. Um, so I so I love that about you. And of course, um, what only local people will know is that you also bake amazingly and was were offering your beautiful, were they vegan fully cupcakes?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

They are fully vegan cupcakes, yeah. I'm um I'm a vegetarian and try to be as vegan as possible, but fail daily at that. Um but my baking is primarily vegan. And yeah, I started baking vegan cupcakes several years ago now and have this little side business called perch. And um I love it. It's definitely another form of creativity for me. It's I don't know, very few people are mad when they're eating a cupcake. And I just love that like that thing of being able to offer someone something that's like beautiful and tasty and offers just like a couple minutes of joy.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, I love that. I love it. And they're they're really are beautiful. So hopefully, well, I know they might not be back here at the heart fiction hub where the podcast studio is, but they are beautiful. So wherever you go, they they will be blessed with your creativity. Um, so today, as as you mentioned, you're a leadership coach, and that means that you get to connect with a quite a few, probably leaders in different, you know, different companies, different corporations, different industries. And I we have talked about leadership a little bit on this podcast. And I I think it's really cool that you have sort of this inside perspective as you're connecting with people and kind of see what they struggle with, see what is happening in the industry today. Because I think when I when I've spent a decade in corporate and a long time ago, that's like, you know, in my 20s, I was in corporate, and I am like sometimes I'm like, are they okay in there? Like, is everyone okay? Like, they just need a big collective hug. Like, what's happening in there? And I actually spent a year, I did a contract a year ago for a company in in LA, but I was working from home. And so I sort of like dipped my toe back in. And to be honest, I was like, eh no, thank you. Um, I was still able to work from home, which was great. But what I didn't love was like a missing sense of true leadership. Like there were there were key leaders, and I was like, oh yeah, she's got it. I love working with her. Like you could tell when the human piece, when the authenticity piece was really there, and when it was just all about like, and now let's try something new, and now let's try something new, and now let's try something new. And it really left our heads spinning, like as a team, the team that I was working with in terms of like content creation. And um, it really got me thinking, like, wow, you really need to like study leadership. You can't just have money and an idea and a building or or virtual building and call people in and start creating something or even investing millions in ads, which is what they were doing. So it's a big company, but it was just missing that thing. So, what what do you believe? What do you see is that thing that makes someone like an authentic present leader today?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, well, and thank you for sharing your experience. I think it's one that probably a lot of people can resonate with. Um, you know, people can be really good at their subject matter. They got into leadership probably because they were really good at their job. Um, and then they get there and the leadership piece doesn't come as natural. Honestly, though, I don't think it's a fully natural thing for most people, though. I say that to say this is a learned skill. This is something that can be learned and understood and um practiced, and you can get more confident and more comfortable in your leadership. So um, yeah, is corporate okay? I honestly I don't know, but possibly not. But I think uh corporate can be okay. And I think there's still hope there because I work with so many leaders who really care about the work they're doing. They care about the people that they work with and for, and they're good at what they do. And so that makes me feel like it can be okay. It will be okay. Um, it's hard to uh take a step back and realize that your leadership skills are what really need pouring into in the moment when you're feeling all the pressure of deadlines and um what your bosses expect and what your boss's bosses expect, and then what the people you're leading expect from you. And you're just like, ah, there's no time, you know. Um, but the reality is is that taking some intentional steps to invest in your leadership development, even if your company isn't doing that at the moment, um, you know, figuring it out for yourself is or how to invest in that leadership development yourself is so key. And yes, I'm biased, I'm a leadership coach. Uh, I'll name that there, but um it's really gonna help you show up with more intentionality, creativity, uh, connection, and build something with your team that you can all be really proud of and not feel burnt out at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah. So it's it's like um, I almost made me think of that saying where like if you're stressed out, meditate for an hour. If you're really stressed out, meditate for two hours. Like if you don't have time, go longer. So it's almost like there's probably like a way to weave in like that attention or intentional connection, intentional building of leadership skills. Cause you know, I mean, I think I think some people are born leaders. And I think that combination of like the understanding of the human piece and the strategy and what your company needs, but really not not lowering any one of those when times are tough, I think is probably a good thing. What do you find in terms of like the ones who are finding a way to show up authentically? What what do you see as the differentiator for the leader who's like, it's stressful, I got it, I care, I'm showing up, I'm meeting my needs, I'm meeting my team's needs. Like, how what do you see as different about someone like that?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah, I think that the the different the differentiator, as you said, um, is something that I talk about a lot with folks on my podcast. And that is it's the per the person who makes a difference is the one who is willing to show up um very vulnerably and transparently, as appropriate, of course. Um they don't pretend to know that they they answer all the time, or they don't come forward in every situation with, here's what we're gonna do. Everyone get on board. That's not the vibe. The vibe with the people who make a difference is uh here's the real and true situation. They have invested time in getting to know their people ahead of any sort of challenge. They know the strengths, they know what needs growth in each of their people and in their selves. And they approach then a challenge with that context and the transparency and then the vulnerability to say, I'm not sure I have the exact path here, but this is where we want to end up. Here's the reality of where we are and what might happen along the way. Now let's all work together with our strengths to figure out the best way to move forward. And then everyone's invested, everyone feels like they're an important part of the mission and the way they're gonna get to the goal, and everyone has buy-in. And I think the most effective leader makes everyone feel seen, heard, and an important part of the mission.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think as you were speaking, I'm like, yeah, I've had I've had some of those. Those are great. Like, I think I I've been very, very fortunate in my work life to have bosses or leaders who were exactly that. Like they were just no, very little ego, if any. I mean, enough ego to have confidence in the fact that they know what they're doing. There's not a bad thing to have that, like, I really want my boss to know what they're doing so that I can learn and grow too. Um, but also there was this like defer deference, deferral to the team. I I hope that's the right word in the moment. Um, to like, I'm not the only one here making this decision. Let's, you know, at least input, or you know, I think there's that, like that they're the ultimate decision maker. But honestly, I think, especially today, you know, people are coming in and it's no longer a place of like, I'm gonna work here for 20 years and I'm gonna have my retirement or whatever. It's just really not, it hasn't been that for a very long time. Um, even more, it's so much more exaggerated now. With um, we have to talk about AI, I think. I'll put it on the table at least, because I did read this morning like this massive 30,000 employee layoff, and um, and it was directly linked to investment in AI architecture and the release of these people. I'm like, oh, it just you know, I'm not in the world, but in that world or in that company, or don't know anyone who works there, but it really made me pause for a second because I think we can ignore it. I can be like, and I don't believe that AI is gonna take over, but I think it really is gonna be affecting quite a few people. And so, how do you, you know, as an as a person who wants to work in a company, um, I guess trust leadership? I don't know. I'm not sure what the question is in there yet, but I guess what do you think of AI in the corporate? Are leaders talking about it? Like, are they having conversations about it? Are they worried? Are they using it to like replace employees?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I just lost the sound on you. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yes. You can't hear me.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I can't hear you anymore. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Let's let's hang on.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Oh, you started to come back there. Yes, you're back.

unknown 12:37

AI.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Muted. Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

I do have an AI assistant in here. Oh my god, that was so weird. We love AI.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

AI is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

So yeah. I think we start with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Wow, that was trippy. So my sound cut out as I was talking about AI, and I do have an AI assistant in here. So hmm, interesting, interesting. Okay, we're not gonna get too mystical about it. Oh, but now you're frozen. What? Oh my goodness. I can still hear you. Can you hear me? So yes, I can hear you, but you're frozen. That was okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Um you are also frozen, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

So, what is the state of AI and leadership?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, I think we need to acknowledge that as this question is being asked, like uh our Zoom, uh everything on Zoom AI is like trying to stop us from talking about it. So maybe the robots are taking over. Um yeah, it's certainly a challenge. And and that's what I mean when I say like we are in a unique time, as every time has been, right? But we have specific challenges nowadays when it comes to showing up as authentic, caring leaders who want to foster a culture of belonging so that our teams and organizations can do good work in the world and make the world a better place and not just um focus on profit alone. I'm not saying profit isn't important, but um, you know, if we lose when we lose sight of the people, that is when things start to go downhill. And I see this whole AI surge as um as a threat to losing sight of of the people. I'm not willing to come out and say AI is bad. You know, I use some AI as thought partners in my business. I chat with it about um, you know, just working through it. It's lonely being a solopreneur sometimes, and it's helpful to just kind of talk my ideas out. Um and I also understand that that that thing is sometimes also trying to blow smoke up my skirt, you know. Um, so uh, you know, take it with a grain of salt. So, but all that to say, I'm not willing to say AI is bad. I have some concerns about the environmental impact of it and like what you were just talking about with the the laying off of people. Um and one thing that I've been thinking about and talking about a lot lately is that one of the greatest confidence builders for a leader, or one of the skills that we work on first when it comes to becoming a more confident leader is actually becoming a more adaptive leader. Um, understanding how to read a situation, think through, talk through the options, find your network, um, and and channel all of the resources you have within and from other people to really be as adaptive as possible. Because I think whatever the whatever direction the world goes in in these next few years and decades, it's gonna be wild. Whether it's good or bad, it's gonna be wild. And so we need leaders who are understanding how to be adaptive and their con and their confidence comes from knowing whatever happens, they and their team will figure it out. Um, and so yeah, I think that's my answer for AI. I'm I'm real back and forth on it at times. I use it, I hate that I use it, I love that I use it. Um, I'm a little scared of it. I'm also excited by how it can help me be more efficient. Hashtag Virgo. Like, you know, help me get through as much on my to-do list as possible, right? Um so I have a lot of feelings about it, but that adaptive piece comes up.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, and that's that's really something that AI can do technically, but reactive to the environment and the the nuances of engaging with people, like I do think that's something that we we really all need to cherish more and focus on and don't give it up. Like, don't just assume that AI can start doing everything, even if it has the most perfect robot, human-like face, like there's still that essence of us that we can't, you know, replace. And I think that's probably, you know, a sense of like a leader who knows how to how to adapt to both is probably going to be really, really successful in that way. Um I know you do one-on-one coaching with leaders. What are some of the things that current modern day leaders come to you for? Like what do you help, what do you love to help them with? And what do you come, what do they come to you for?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah, that confidence building piece is a major one. And it looks a lot of different ways. It's talked about a lot of different ways. You know, sometimes it's imposter syndrome that gets named. Sometimes it's um I kind of feel like a fraud, like I was doing a great job and then I got promoted, and now I kind of feel like a fraud. Um, or I don't know how to handle the relationship piece of these used to be my peers. I went to happy hour with them. I used to complain about the higher ups, and now I'm one of these, you know. Um, that's talked about a lot. Um, but what we really get in and work together with, I have a very high-touch one-on-one program where I am, I consider myself your co-leader, your confidant, your cheerleader, if you need that. Not everyone wants the cheerleader. So I'm learning how to offer that optionally. But uh the co-leader and the confidant, definitely. And really, it's it's kind of lonely being a leader. Like I think we experience that probably as entrepreneurs. But then if even when you're working for someone else and you're, you know, making your way up the ladder, um, it gets lonelier and lonelier the more you go up. There's less you can talk about what widely with folks, and that feels really hard. Um, and so then that piece I mentioned at the beginning about being transparent and vulnerable, it gets really confusing about how to balance that. So I work with folks a lot on that, how to communicate well with uh their teams, how to understand themselves better. Um, because typically that kind of self-awareness is where we start so that we can help our team be more aware of themselves and you can be more aware of what makes them tick. And also um that tends to translate into a into a healthier and more fulfilling personal life too, when you have that stronger self-awareness. So I'm really getting into leaders' lives, all of it, and um, I'm there for them um with one-on-one conversations several times a month, whenever they need me. Um so that we can excuse me, so that we can really build a very authentic and intentional presence with how they're showing up at work and at home. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Um, since this is an intuitive life, we talk about intuition quite a bit. Is there a place for intuition in your conversations? Like, does it come up? Does it, does it like come up naturally as in how do I trust my intuition? Or is it, or is it more like, I guess when I think of intuition in the workplace, it's more like following that gut feeling. The language might be a little different around it. It's not so much like, and how is my you know, heart chakra feeling today? It might just be more like how do you be more heart-led leader, or how do you trust your trust yourself? I feel like that word was probably probably be more used versus like, I'm an intuitive leader versus like I trust. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, I think um I say the phrase self-trust a lot, and we talk a lot about how to build self-trust. And I wish we were talking about heart chakras more often, but not everyone's ready for that right away. I get it. Um, however, another piece or another way we can talk about being confident is saying I trust myself. So you can I can have people come to me and say, I'm really feeling imposter syndrome. Or I really don't feel confident in my leadership. Or another way to say it, which they rarely say, is I don't trust myself. And there are things we can do, there are things we can build into our daily schedule, the way we show up in different interactions, and the way we honor our commitments to ourself that build that self-trust. And when you have that self-trust, you know that even when the biggest of big challenges lands at your door, you're gonna be able to figure it out. You don't have to have all the answers right away. That's a common misconception, I think, that a lot of new leaders feel. Like, I need to have the right answer immediately, and I need to be able to communicate that and tell people what to do immediately. I really think that's BS. But developing that self-trust kind of helps us back off of that fear because we know that whatever comes along, we're gonna be able to figure it out. We're gonna be able to support our team through it. We're gonna be able to support ourselves through it. And we do that by honoring the commitments we make to ourselves, doing the things that we say we're gonna do, um, being vulnerable and transparent about what's going on, being able to say, I was wrong about this, and here's what I'm learning and here's how I'm adapting. And all of that goes into building that self-trust. It's it's definitely a welcome conversation in leadership.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah, for sure. And I and I talk about self-trust all the time as well. And I think that's really the foundation of even being able to trust your intuition, right? Because it's still yourself to really understand like, I don't like not having not needing to have all the answers is so huge. And I think as human beings, if we understood that more, especially as leaders, we could just collaborate more and we could say, I don't know, let's figure this out, or I wonder you can get into more creativity and more like just testing things out. I mean, maybe more on the creative side, but even if you're dealing with like a financial challenge or some some really even some really challenging things that do happen in the workplace, the the pressure of feeling like you have to be the one to solve to solve it, you know, maybe that's the vibe in the company. Um, I think it'd be really sort of innovative if someone came in and was like, all right, this is what we are dealing with and this is how we are gonna move through it. We don't have all the pieces in place yet. Let's let's sort of like take the next step and then the next step and the next step. That's how I think, you know, things are are accomplished without that piece of um, without the pressure sort of crushing someone to feel like they have to be the one to figure it out, especially in this sort of um, I guess, environment where profits are of, I mean, in the environment in the corporate environment, there's probably a lot less margin to let's just spend the next week exploring a solution, you know, versus an entrepreneur who could be like, and pause button so I can go to take a yoga class and come back and take a walk. And even though you can probably still help, like you said, there's things that you can do, you know, schedule-wise to put in touch points of reconnection, self-connection, team connection, just like pausing. Uh, I actually worked for um way back when I worked at this uh TV station that did like the History Channel and all these cool, like other sort of, you know, shows. And the the guy I worked for, he would have me leave in the afternoon for like half an hour because he did this like power nap, like answer. Like he would literally like spend time just he would lock the doors and be by himself. And he wasn't, he actually wasn't sleeping, but he was like, I need everything shut out so we can figure out like and I, you know, I was I worked pretty closely with him, like in his office. We had this big space, and he's like, and you go for a walk, like go get a smoothie. And I love it. He'd be like, All right, I have the answer. Like it was such a cool um, you know, example of someone who was just like, I don't need to have another meeting, I'm just gonna like meet with myself for half an hour while you go for a walk. And this is like in New York City, so I'm like, and I'm gonna walk around New York City. Um, so that was that was kind of a cool example. I'm sure there, I'm sure I like you know, there are some people who do that now, even I'm I think there's a lot of and I I did have a client who came from like a Microsoft background and she was going into consulting and she she really shared some cool um, I guess, initiatives within companies that she's worked with because she consults too, and she's super, super like on the spiritual side and does her own sort of retreats and things like that. And there were some really interesting initiatives, still, still like very a small percentage, I would say, of what was happening, but it was happening. Like there was some cool events that were more like right-brained, creative, mindfulness things happening within these big organizations that I I found super inspiring. So that there is good news out there.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah, definitely. Um, you really quickly before we move on, you said this word that caught my ear, and that is being. And I think that is my biggest desire for leaders out there, any person really, whether you consider yourself a leader or not. But we all one of the gifts of I think each um new generation, like when I think about, you know, a couple generations older than me, and then think about how every generation has progressed in this idea of being, like Gen Zers are not putting up with the BS. They're not putting up with the inauthenticity, they will not. My elder millennial generation, we were starting to really have a problem with that and like deal with it. Um, and I think Gen Xers also in their own way, but like it keeps we keep getting less and less of a tolerance as we go down to the to the younger generations. And when I hear older leaders complaining about some of these newer employees or newer leaders coming up, that's often what I hear. Like, but really the divide, the gap that I see is an unwillingness to put up with the BS. And I love that. I love that for the future. Um, and I think part of it is this uh desire to be in communities where people are allowed to be. Whatever being looks like for that person, they're allowed to do it. And I think that scares some of some folks sometimes, which rightly so. It is kind of scary. Like, what if we're all just being and it doesn't work? Like it doesn't vibe. But I think there's a greater and greater sense of self-trust um that that generations are learning and um an okayness with everyone being allowed to be. And I think we've all had the experience where we've been with someone who was just themselves. They were just, they were not trying to make you be anything, they weren't trying to make themselves be anything, they were just vibing, right? And compare that with the energy then of the person who we've all walked into a room and felt immediately that they were putting on a show and not the good kind, not the Broadway kind. They were like really there performing um what they thought a leader should be. And it feels gross, right? It like feels uncomfortable. And you don't really believe them, or at least I don't believe them. When I sense that, I'm just like, I don't, I don't think this is, I'm like, I'm like scratching my neck for those who can't see of me right now. Uh like it makes me like feel itchy. I just don't like it. And and I think we've all had those experiences between those two different energies, and it it gives me some hope for the future. That's why I love working with new and emerging leaders, because they are their deepest desire is to very is to not show up that way. They want to be intentional about being themselves. And I love it.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Okay, so speaking as a Gen Xer, my corporate days were sort of in the prime of what I was taught, you know, what I saw, the examples of what corporate life was. And I was again very, very lucky that I worked with really like great companies, great leaders who believed in possibilities and creativity and like just, you know, I was given opportunities to lead very, very young. And that's because I was just like so enthusiastic. I just showed the heck up. Like, what do you see? And I do, I think, and I have talked about this quite a bit with with different people, especially when I was back in corporate just a year ago. I was like, what is happening? Like, is is I can definitely feel something's changing. I'm definitely not like we don't need dinosaur leadership, no thank you. Like, I have experienced um very subtle, like, you know, inappropriate behaviors in the corporate world, and you sort of just like brush it off, and you're like, fuck that. Like, there's a little bit of I remember, I remember that a little bit like subtly, you know, like, and you just sort of like, do I say something? I don't know. Um, whereas I do believe now it's like, and no. So what so what does that look like now? Because one of the other things that I saw that I was sort of questioning was like the the my in my team, we had a very like wide range. I would say we had some Gen Xers and we had some like much younger people in the room. And I definitely felt a difference. Like for me, corporate meant professionalism and like you're on time, and like you just meet the and you do the thing, you do it better, you do over, like you just do, do, do, and that's how you sort of make your way up because you're the one who's like doing all the things. It was extremely stressful. Like, I'm like, I did not like that feeling. I was like, I don't want to be the overproducer. But on the other side, I did to be fully like transparent, I did see some lack of like showing up on time and like missing meetings. I'm like, I'm like, is this just like the new way? Like, I don't get it. Like I know I'm supposed to be there, I be there. Like if I have a deadline, I deadline that. Like that's I just do it. Like I just I don't have any other concept where I did see more like just a little more fluidity there. And I I don't know that I was super comfortable with it. Maybe it's like my little Gen X, you know, that's just how I was raised. And and but they did good work. They like solid work, good work, but not always when the const constraints, constraints of like what was needed. And I and I still, we were great, it's a great team. You worked well together, but I just I did feel a little bit of that. So um, you know, I mean, to be honest, they weren't in leadership roles, but I also felt like there was just a um like a very different approach to showing up. I was like inspired by this, or should I just like like should I also like kind of lean back a little bit and have some more fun, like you know, loosen up a little bit too? But I just I'm curious what your take on that is.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah, well, and I think there's always like personality things to consider there too, and like what is your responsibility and what you know is just their issue to deal with. And totally um, I would have questions for that leadership team about how they're connecting with those folks and what they're what expectations they're setting, and um uh how they are talking to those folks and getting to know those folks about what they need and what um what the team needs from them. And I I would have I have more curiosity than I have like solutions for that scenario. Um, but a lot of it stems around um curiosity of what expectations are being set and how much those younger employees or or folks see. Um let me get my words right here, how much they see themselves as part of the mission and how much they see their behavior and intentionality contributing. And I think that's the challenge we have as leaders. That's what I said earlier. We have the responsibility to make sure everyone on that team knows what is expected and also that they are a crucial part of the mission. And if attendance or uh punctuality is truly critical, then we need to make sure they know why. Um, it's not enough to just say we show up on time. Like you have to explain why. You have to like show why. Um, you have to model that yourself. And so I have more curiosity and questions for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And as you say that, it made me made me remember that we were the like this this particular team was the most undermanaged team because the the person who hired me was let go a month after. Then there was a gap of no leadership at all. Like we were sort of like we knew what we had to do and we did it, and it came down from like the higher level. And then there was a leader that was hired that literally had zero one-on-ones with anyone for the six weeks that she was there, and then she left, and then we had no leader again. And then at the very end of my time there, like my contract, the the brand head who I adored, like I loved her. She was an incredible leader. She came in and she sort of like rallied everyone. I was like, ah, that was so nice to have someone actually who cared about what was happening, you know, because it was really like it was a lot at stake. There was like financial, you know, investments and ads running, like all kinds of stuff. Um, and then they they did eventually, right before I left um my contract, they had they did hire a guy who was like so hard, like all heart. He was all heart and strategy. Like, and I'm like, okay, they'll be fine. They're gonna be fine. That all checks, yeah. That really, yeah. I think as you said that, I was like, yeah, I think um because I don't, I really don't need management very much. I'm able to do that because that's how I was groomed and trained, and you know, not groomed in a in a bad way, but like that's how I grew up. Like in that way, I just really I have that good girl, sort of good student, you know, yeah. Same, but not this, yeah. I think there's more possibility now. But yeah, like good management, this is speaks to good leadership. And I really there really was missing that piece. So that that's that tracks. Yeah, that tracks missing leadership creates really wishy-washy boundaries and wishy-washy, like, why should I show up if there's no even manager here? Like, what am I gonna do? Um, so we were like self-led to some degree, which can be tricky, especially in an environment that moves very quickly and things change all the time, which they did. Um, I guess I let's go back for a second, which is like, why did you get into this? What what what do you love about leadership coaching for you? Like, how did you decide to focus on this as your coaching focus?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah. Um I would respond with I I got a master's degree in transformational leadership. It was the one of the best two-year chunks of my life. It was it was challenging, but it was also so inspiring to go through that program with others and learn more about my my own leadership and how to um build leadership inside of communities and organizations and do it in a way that was very people focused and inspired. Um but really I think that it goes back to when I was a very young child. I was an only child until I was about 14, but I was an only child. Um I definitely had a strong opinion about how everything should go and yet still had that like uh you were mentioning the good girl tendencies, and like grew up sort of being um not told, but definit definitely shown that being humble was the most important thing that I could be as a woman. Um that, you know, coming out with my opinion all the time was not necessarily what I needed to do. Um, and yet I just had such strong feelings and like have always kind of been a person that saw the bigger picture and was good then at breaking it down into the steps to get up there to the bigger picture and um kind of displayed that very early on in school. And I took dance lessons and like that was a thing there too. And like I I just really enjoyed being the person that people came to for help. Um and when I got put in charge of a project at school or wherever, I was just like, all right, here we go. Like, let's roll. Um, and I I think it started very early for me. Um and so as I went through my education and you know, going through different jobs after college, um I had good bosses and I had bad bosses, and I sort of started really noticing about what what makes a good leader and what makes a a less than ideal leader, leader will say. Um and so when I had the opportunity to do this program, I jumped at it and um really started to think about what the world could be if everyone had good leadership in in the different things that they were in, or they they were embodying their own leadership and really working for a world that everyone felt seen and heard and a part of. Um and so when I decided to be a coach, I'm skipping over many, many steps here, but when I decided to be a coach, um, you know, I went through, you know, kind of just general life coaching for a while and then tried out career coaching. And then finally someone was like, Jess, you have a master's degree in leadership. Why are you not coaching leaders? And I was like, why, why aren't I coaching leaders? Like, you're right. Um I had already started my podcast, Illustrating Leadership, where I was asking people to share the story uh about the best leader they've ever experienced. And, you know, pulling out those lessons and kind of exploring the traits and themes of good leadership. And so, yeah, I finally took the jump a couple of years ago and really owned the fact that I was a leadership coach. I really saw the need for support for new leaders. There's a lot of options out there for the mid-level and executive leader, which there should be. That's great. I'm not not dogging on that at all. Um, but I think there's this idea tied to maybe traditional views of leadership that the new leader needs to prove themselves. They need to be like forged in the fire. I think that's BS2. And I just, why can't we just support everyone and help them be their best from the very beginning? Um I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

It's such a great opportunity to like plant the seed of leadership at the beginning instead of having it's almost like you want to teach like kindergartners because you're like you're gonna be able to do that. A little bit of seeds. Yeah, and you don't have to wait until some bad behaviors have already been experienced. And it might be a good thing too. Like they they will still have, you know, all kinds of experiences in in different companies. But I love that. And I think sometimes the most obvious thing about us is sometimes a thing we take for granted, or like you are, you know, definitely someone who holds energy really well, you're super grounded, like even just interviewing you and talking, having this conversation, I can feel like there's this really cool combination of like compassion and empathy, but also like, and no, like this is it, like we need to focus on this, which is really what leaders need. But it's also the thing that leaders need even more is to be seen as a human being, not just like, okay, let's let's look at your you know, spreadsheets and excel, whatever, like all the things that they're and they're looking at every day and you know, talk about strategy, which the strategy will will come. All of that will be learned and you'll get all the tools, but really foundationally, if they can be seen and trust themselves, like you said, and really understand that confidence comes from trusting yourself and how do you actually implement that? That's amazing. So I think you landed exactly where you're supposed to be right now. So I love that. So thank you for doing the work that you're doing. And also, we didn't mention that you are a really kick-ass line dancer. Like we didn't really talk about that at all, um, which I love because when you said you you danced when you were younger, I'm like, oh yeah, and she's a really phenomenal dancer too.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

So I got super obsessed last year. Um, my husband was deployed. I'm I'm also a military spouse. Um, my husband was deployed for like the second time in two years. The deployment got extended, and I was like, oh boy, I gotta find a healthy coping mechanism here. Like I've got I've got a host of unhealthy ones I could turn to, but I need a healthy one. And uh a friend of mine saw line dancing on a billboard close by where we live and was like, Do you want to go? And I was like, Yes, I love dancing. I know we have that in common, Alina. Um, I love dancing. It's really hard to go by yourself sometimes, though. And like finding a class wasn't Working out for me. And so I went, bought boots the next day. I was like in hook, line, and sinker. Um, and so while he was deployed, I was going like three or four times a week. Now that he's home, you know, at least once a week, but I love that.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

And I love the few times that I got to dance next to you because I could watch you, because you just know every single dance. Like, you know, I dance. I dance well, to me, it looked like that because I danced a lot of other dances where I'm really efficient, proficient. Like I know moves, I've been doing them for years, but line dancing was brand new. And so even though I pick up choreography quickly, anything slightly more complicated, my brain's like, Anne, what direction are we going in? Like, you know, you're facing four walls and you're like moving, everything's moving, and you're like, oh my God, what is this song? And and you don't go all the time, it's really hard to hold it in your brain. So I think it's a great, you know, and and like as a leadership coach yourself, you're like living what you're teaching, which is to have a really robust, creative personal life, and so that you can embody, because I know we talked about embodiment before when you interviewed me on your podcast. Like I believe that embodied leadership is sort of the way, the way we need to be. Like you're living your, you're saying what you're saying, you're doing what you're saying, you're being who you're saying. And then when you walk in the room, so much of it is already in place because you're embodied, you're embodying what you're teaching and what you're leading. And I think that's like half the battle because so many, like you said, when you were that old style, like it gives you that ick, right? Because you just know it's so fake. It's very politician, it's very like you say one thing and behind the closed doors, it's a whole other thing. You never know when you're gonna be fired. And some of that still exists quite, you know, strongly because some of those tentacles run deep in our world, in our like corporate environment. We all know that. But I think having the opportunity to to really coach these newer leaders who are like hungry for guidance in that way and can start to plant those seeds of the future where who they hire and then those people hire other people, it'll start to like change probably very quickly now because we've already had a couple of generations of like, you know, newer, newer-minded, newer leaders who are just exposed to more. Maybe they're not ready to talk to heart, talk about heart chakras yet, but you know, we'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. Um, yeah, I think this is a good place to kind of put the bow on it, but also I'd love for you to talk about your saboteur assessment. And we'll have the link below and tell us a little bit about what that is and why we should all go take it.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yes, um, this is a tool, one of the many tools that I use in my coaching, but it's something you have access to the whole program, which would normally cost you $1,000 to go through. You have access to that when you work with me. Um, that's included in the program, and it's much less than $1,000. So the it and it comes from Shrazad Shamin's program Positive Intelligence, which is a play on emotional intelligence. The idea of positive intelligence is that we all have our own unique flavor of sabotaging thoughts. It's that choir of voices in your head that tell you why you can't or shouldn't, or you know, whatever, um, or you're not safe to, or whatever it is. We all have a special flavor of the way that choir sings in our head. So this assessment gives you a full report of that choir in your head. It gives you the flavor profile, if you will. Um, I'm mixing a lot of metaphors there as I'm wont to do, but um that's that's what you get. It takes less than five minutes to take, um, and you literally get the whole report. And then after you uh get the report, you have an opportunity to have a free session with me where we go through the report and kind of answer any questions you have about it, dig into a little bit more about what it means and how it shows up for you and what you can, you know, think about and do moving forward. Um, and how to switch, how to, how to catch that choir before they really start singing loud and turn them over to the sage part of your brain that is kinder, more creative, more innovative, much more empathetic, way less judgmental of you and others. Um, there are things you can do to catch those voices and um turn them over to that that other side of your brain before they hijack your whole day, your whole project, your whole, you know, whatever. Um, there is hope. So please take the assessment. Yeah, it's it's such a helpful tool. And I'd love to to chat with any anyone more about what they learn after they take it. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah, find that link in the show notes for sure. I think that's a huge, a huge thing that a lot of us battle in whatever form it shows up. So that's a really great resource. Um, before we say bye-bye, anything, anything you want to share, any like last note of encouragement as we you know move through whatever AI holds and the future holds and the wild, wild east, west, and north and south hold. Like any any final thought?

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Yeah, well, just thank you so much for having me on. And I I really hope listeners will take away from this that um leadership looks a lot of different ways. Um, but there are a lot of opportunities for us to be leaders in our lives, whether that's professionally or in our family or our community. And every one of us has the opportunity to lead ourselves as well. And that leadership doesn't have to be lonely, it doesn't have to be overwhelming, it doesn't have to be something that you're worried about or that you feel bad about. Um, there is support for you out there in many different ways. I'm one resource, Elaine is another resource. There are many ways to help you feel more comfortable as you show up authentically and intentionally in your life. And we always have a choice. We always can make a choice to do something a little different, to try something, to lead with curiosity in our own life. And I hope you will do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah, leading with curiosity is the perfect place to start and to see what opens up, what possibilities open up. So thank you so much for being here with us today. And um, yeah, I'll make sure to share all your links. And I'm just honored to have the conversation with you and go take a nap. Hope you feel better. Thank you for joining us, even though you have a little cold. Um, and if you enjoy the conversation, please rate and review so more people can hear this conversation about leadership. It's really, really important as we move into, I guess, more unknowns, as always. But it's I think self leadership and leadership in general is very, very needed. So thank you, and we'll see you on the next episode of An Intuitive Life.