The Brave and Balanced Fundraiser

Money, the Nervous System, and the Fundraiser’s Body with Claire Messett

• Erin McQuade-Wright

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How Money Psychology Shapes Fundraising Conversations, and What You Can Do About It

Episode Summary
Money is part of a fundraiser’s daily work—but few fundraisers are ever taught how money impacts the nervous system.

In this episode of The Brave & Balanced Fundraiser, Erin McQuade-Wright is joined by money psychology coach Claire Messett for a grounded, insightful conversation about what really happens in the body during fundraising conversations.

Drawing from her background in neuropsychotherapy, Claire explains how early experiences with money shape our sense of safety, worthiness, and power—often long before we’re consciously aware of it. Together, Erin and Claire explore how scarcity thinking, nervous system dysregulation, and identity patterns can quietly hijack donor conversations, and how fundraisers can return to presence, agency, and calm.

This episode is especially relevant if you:

  • Feel anxiety before donor meetings or major asks
  • Struggle with worthiness when asking for large gifts
  • Notice a gap between “knowing better” and feeling regulated
  • Want to ask from a place of abundance rather than scarcity

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why money activates the nervous system—even when it’s not your money
  • How the brain stores early money experiences and replays them later
  • The difference between asking from contraction vs. inviting from expansion
  • Simple grounding practices to use before high-stakes donor conversations
  • Why fundraising is a relationship skill—not a personal worth test

Resources & Links

About the Podcast
The Brave & Balanced Fundraiser is the podcast for professional fundraisers who want to regulate their internal climate so they can show up with courage, clarity, and sustainability—without burning out or abandoning themselves in the process.


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Erin McQuade-Wright

Welcome to the Brave and Balanced Fundraiser, the podcast I wish I'd had during my 15 years as a professional fundraiser. I'm your host, Erin McQuaid Wright. This is your space to breathe, realign, and reconnect with the part of you that chose this work for a reason. Together we'll explore tools and practices that help you show up less stressed and spread thin and more grounded, brave, and on purpose. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get started. Today's conversation is about something fundraisers spend their entire careers around, but are rarely invited to explore from the inside out: money. My guest today is Claire Messett, a fellow Mastery Methods certified coach. With a background in Neuropsychotherapy, Claire specializes in identity, nervous system regulation and money psychology. Specifically, what happens in the body when money enters the conversation. And even though fundraisers aren't raising money for themselves, money still activates our nervous systems. It can trigger old patterns around safety, worthiness, and power often before we're consciously aware that it's happening. In this episode, Claire helps us understand why that happens, how early experiences with money shape our responses years later, and what fundraisers can do to stay present, grounded and in their bodies during high stakes donor conversations. If you've ever felt calm on the outside while panicking on the inside, if you've ever questioning whether you were worthy of asking for a large gift. Or if you wanna learn how to invite donors from a place of abundance rather than scarcity, this conversation is for you. Let's dive in. My guest today is Claire Messett, who I met in my coaching program. We were both students at the Institute for Coaching Mastery, and I really loved how Claire just like fundraising when we all come to fundraising from different walks of life. Some were journalists before they became a fundraiser. Some were teachers, all kinds of different folks. Some were scientists, and we find ourselves in the fundraising atmosphere. Coaching is a lot of the same. I came to coaching from fundraising, which almost nobody else did, nobody in my class, and Claire came to coaching from her background in Neuropsychotherapy. So today I want to bring you claire Messett. And I think you're gonna find a lot of value in this conversation because Claire specializes in identity, who we think we are and what happens in the body. For example, when money enters the conversation, she's gonna break that down for us and she's gonna help you be more conscious of the programs that are running in the background of your fundraising conversations, so that you don't get hijacked by them, but you can have mastery over them and be intentional about your fundraising. Claire, welcome to the show.

Claire Messett

Oh, thank you, Erin. What a beautiful introduction.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I'm curious about what you would say. You know, I think we. We carry a lot of baggage. At least that's the, the conversation you hear. We have a lot of baggage about money and how we feel about money, and I've been talking on this podcast about how when we sit down as a fundraiser and a donor, a potential donor, our nervous systems are actually interacting even though, you know, I can try to. Go in in my cute outfit with my smart glasses and look calm and placid. If I'm freaking out on the inside, the donor can feel that. And so I'm really interested in how that sort of baggage around money starts. Where would you say that this comes from?

Claire Messett

Right. Well, it's a great question and because of my background in the Neuropsychotherapy, I will give a brief, um, explanation. So basically the way that I've worked with people when they've had. A really, really negative experience, A traumatic experience happened to them with money. So that could be, for example, going bankrupt. It could be. Losing their job, losing their house. It could be watching someone else go through a really, um, horrendous experience. Maybe their parents, maybe their children growing up, and whatever happened at that time, their celebrate cerebellum, the most ancient part of her brain laid down a neural pathway to. The amygdala, which are the center of our emotions. And just to give you a little bit of, um, background on the cerebellum, if you think. Our, our brain, we have over 86 billion neurons in our head, and over 80% of them are in that most ancient part of our brain, the cerebellum. Okay. Oh,

wow.

Claire Messett

And it stores everything and it's lightning fast. This is, you can think of a, this is. How we can react to somebody throwing something at our head and we, we duck before we are even aware of what's happening. That is the cerebellum reacting. And so when somebody goes through, um, a traumatic experience with money, then a neural pathway is created in the cerebellum that reaches the amygdala. And will, um, basically flood the system with cortisol, adrenaline, you know, this is not safe. Um,

Erin McQuade-Wright

run away, run

Claire Messett

away, run away, run away. Uhhuh like basically don't do it. And. In the future when that person, so say this was something that, that they wi this person witnessed their parents losing their business, something like that. It could be decades later, and that person is now an adult themselves and they are, you know, wanting to ask for, say, a lot of money from a a, a donor, for example. There's something blocking them. They just don't feel safe asking to receive money because they're cerebellum from all those, you know, decades ago, has connected lots of money with. Losing it or not being safe. Ah, so however that works. And there's different ways. If, if some, if somebody has experienced a traumatic. Situation. Then, um, I recommend working with, uh, a practitioner, a psychotherapist just to, um, resolve that trauma so that they're not being held back unconsciously. Yeah, because anytime in the future that person's in a situation where there's lots of money in involved, then that cerebellum is gonna be. Firing off, you know that? Yeah. Unconscious response to the amygdala, releasing the cortisol adrenaline, and then a split second later, after the body has reacted that neural pathway, which is going about 200 miles per hour reaches, so it's literally about a third of a second later, the neural pathway reaches conscious awareness where that person consciously is like, you know, this should be easy. Why am I. What is blocking me from, you know, feeling safe to kind of Yeah. Receive or ask for money.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. And I, I have a story about that actually, when you were describing this, I could just see it happening. I had invited a, a husband and wife donor team to an organization I worked at, and I knew that they had already supported. Us in the past with major gifts. Uh, but, but they hadn't given in a while and I invited them to come for a tour to see the mission in action. And I had a very compelling sight there. When people saw it, they believed it was easy to give tours. It the place had so much heart that you couldn't help. But see it and feel it when you walked through. So we took a tour, showed the new things that were happening, and we were sitting down in the executive director's office together. So it was the four of us, the executive director, me and the donors. And I remember feeling okay, I am gonna ask them for a quarter of a million dollars. And, uh. They've already given before. I know that I don't need to convince them of the worthiness of this mission. Mm-hmm. But what was going inside on inside my body, Claire, was just pandemonium. It was so loud, my heartbeat. I was so nervous to say that thing, and it was just that situation you described. I'm looking at the situation on the surface. I'm fine. I'm safe. I'm in a climate controlled office with people who are already friends of this mission and yet on the inside, and now I know it was my cerebellum trying to keep me safe was sounding the alarm as if a lion was chasing me. And that's a really, is that, is that an example of what you were sharing?

Claire Messett

Yeah. Uh, so something in your past. Yeah. The cerebellum will have recognized and fired off a similar response so that your body reacts before your. Consciously aware of what's happening. So you're kind of, it's, it's like you're left back peddling, you know? Yeah. Like, why am I feeling like this? There's no reason. Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And you mentioned the amygdala being the place that the, the neural pathway from the cerebellum goes to. Yes. And I, I remembered reading a study years ago where they hooked people up to, I forget what kind of tests they did. It was brain scans of some kind, and they. Tested two different groups. One were seasoned meditators, and the other were people who at that time did something that was kind of new, which was after September 11th we got the cycle in America of 24 hour news. And so there were, there was a business incentive for newscasters to scare people. To keep them watching. And of these two different groups, they found that the amygdala, which I guess caught, you can tell us a little bit more about that, what the amygdala does. But the amygdala was much bigger, that that part of the brain was bigger in the part of the in, in the people who watched scary tv. Like news saying that the terrorists are coming for you and things like that. The amygdala actually grew in that group, and the other group had a smaller amygdala, but to me the most remarkable part of it was that that was plastic. It was flexible and that they were able to decrease the size of the amygdala, as I recall by. Turning off that stimulus of scary news, 24 hour news cycles and just having it on in the background, telling people, telling you what you should be afraid of. The amygdala did shrink a bit when that's incredible. They removed that stimulus.

Claire Messett

Yeah, and, and you know, and it's worth adding in also the reason that horses, um, can be used with, um. You know, helping people overcome traumatic experiences is because horses have really big amygdalas. Really? They're feeling, yeah. So they're, oh, that's why they're so sensitive

Erin McQuade-Wright

to us.

Claire Messett

Yes. And so when, um. If somebody is really traumatized by working with a horse, I mean, I'm not an expert and, and the side of things I was just curious is what, you know, why is it with horses? And then it just made so much sense because the horse feels, you know, a. What the person that, that they're working with feels. And so if that person is dysregulated, the horse is gonna feel it too. So the horse is like a kind of reflector. Um, so yeah, it, it's, I I find it all really, really fascinating. So yes, of course, by people being stuck on this 24 hour news. Cycle and you know, it's not giving their bodies a chance to relax. Um, they're, they're just getting more and more tuned in to negativity and what can happen and that fear, scarcity. Yeah. All of these things. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And you mentioned a really important word in fundraising, which is scarcity. And I think if they're. Was, I just got back from a podcasting conference and I had a lot of people asking me, uh, what my podcast is about, and so I had a very short time to be able to say what it's about. Yeah, and I think that's what I come down to is how I'm helping fundraising professionals to ask from a place of abundance rather than from a place of scarcity and part of the fundraiser's work. The conventional wisdom of fundraising is paint a picture of scarcity for the prospective donor so they will take action because your funding cycle is ongoing, so you will always need money, but it's important that you create a time window. Give now while we have this match, a donor is offering to double all contributions up to$5,000 or whatever it is, give now before this runs out. That is a, an example of creating scarcity. Mm-hmm. And so we use that skillfully. To help the donor take action. Because if we tell the donor, we need your gift, and we will always need your gift, because that's our business model, that's not as compelling as we have a, we have this, this campaign that's happening from this date to this date. We need you to give now so that we can do X, Y, z action. Right? Yeah. That is what works. I'm curious about what it does to us as fundraising professionals to be hitting that scarcity button so often and, and maybe it bleeds over into our own thinking about. Interacting with donors. Like, we have to get this donation, I have to get this donor to, to say yes. And I know now, and I didn't know in 15 years of fundraising, but I know now that when I'm asking from a place of I really need this person to give or else I, I, it's gonna be bad that I'm not in my power and I'm not in Yeah. My regulated nervous system. Right?

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yes. And. And I think that, that this is a, a huge part of being an aligned fundraiser where that persons, that fundraiser's identity, nervous system and mission are coherent with. The level of money that they're calling in, the timeframe that this needs to happen as you've, you know, just been explaining the kind of ethical scarcity. Um, and, and, yeah, exactly. When you are asking from a place of kind of need and contraction that's very different from. Inviting that donor to contribute from a place of expansion and abundance and the kind of energy of. As a fundraiser, you know, we are good whether you donate or not.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. Beautiful. And I think this is really the edge, I think this is the competitive edge for fundraisers. Mm-hmm. Is if it, am I asking from a place of contraction, like you mentioned, and when I, the way I describe contraction is I feel it really strongly as a gut clench. Yeah. That is con contraction. Right. And I feel like there were, there were years and years and years of me clenching my gut. Yeah. And fundraising was a big cause of that and a big part of that. And I didn't realize that was a choice on my part. And you describe expansion and what I think of when I think of expansion is a soft belly. That's not clenched for, uh, an emotional punch of, no, I'm not gonna give, or whatever the donor's answer might be. And if I have a soft belly, I have a soft throat, I notice those two go together. If my belly isn't tight, my throat isn't tight.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And I'm doing this right now. As, as we sit here and talk, I'm softening my belly, deepening my breath. My throat relaxes. And what you're saying, I think is asking from this place is asking from an expansive place.

Claire Messett

Yeah. And, and you know, I've been thinking about this a lot and, and I would even tweak that further to say, it's an invitation from this place, not an ask. You're inviting. Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Beautiful.

Claire Messett

You know, beautiful. You know, because this is all about finding the ways to help. You as the fundraiser to regulate your nervous system and yeah, ask. Invite,

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah,

Claire Messett

invite from that place of expansiveness and abundance. And, and so I feel this would be a really good place to, in invite you into a process of questioning and investigating our beliefs in a state of mindfulness. Um, this is. An adaptation of the work, um, from Byron Katie. And what this does is it's a way to identify. I mean, it might be really obvious anyway, but it's a really good way of. Identifying and questioning the thoughts that create stress inside ourselves, even if we're looking all calm and controlled on the outside.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Claire Messett

Um, yeah, so it's questioning the thoughts that create the stress, upset or fear in our life and. Yeah, it, it.

Erin McQuade-Wright

So why don't I, why don't we do this? You can lead me through the process. Yeah. And I'll put myself back in, I'll go back in time about, oh, 10 years, and I will go back to that table with the donor, uh, the two donors and my, and my executive director, and I will answer where you lead. I'll be that person.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Perfect. Does that work?

Erin McQuade-Wright

Okay.

Claire Messett

That works. And, and it would be helpful for this to be a kind of really charged, limiting belief about fundraising. That's really common. Yeah. So it could be, for example, I can't attract my ideal donors or something like that.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I think the, the belief that I had in that moment Yeah. Is. I don't have the right to ask for this much money.

Claire Messett

Okay. So,

Erin McQuade-Wright

or like I'm asking too much.

Claire Messett

I'm asking too much. Um, I'm not worthy to ask

Erin McQuade-Wright

for this. Oh yeah, that was a big one. That was a big one. Yeah. That's a layer deeper than, than I was. But yeah, that was what it was. I didn't feel worthy to ask for that donation. Yeah.

Claire Messett

And so, yeah, so it could be, I'm, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. I can't attract the right. People to give me the money or, you know, like,

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah. I mean, well, the people were already there, so let's, let's go with, I'm not worthy to

Claire Messett

Okay.

Erin McQuade-Wright

To ask for$250,000.

Claire Messett

Okay? So I'm not worthy to ask for$250,000. Okay? And so, Aaron. Putting yourself back in that situation, if you were to rate that limiting belief, that limiting thought on strength with 10 feeling the strongest, where would you put that thought on a scale of, you know, zero to 10?

Erin McQuade-Wright

I think I'd put it at a seven.

Claire Messett

At a seven? Okay. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna turn this statement around, okay? So instead of, I'm not worthy to ask for$250,000, I am worthy to ask for$250,000. Okay? And I'd like you to. Think of a couple of reasons or examples of where you are worthy of asking for a large amount of money. Yeah, so it doesn't have to be$250,000. It can be a large amount of money.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Well, the first one that comes to mind is I've, I was hired. To do this job. So I was worthy, I was deemed worthy when I was got the contract. Yeah, yeah. It's on the contract that this is my job, so I'm worthy of it.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yeah. That is very clear and clean. Love it. And another reason,

Erin McQuade-Wright

um, I. I'm worthy of asking them for this money because they've already shown their support. I'm not asking, it is not a cold ask. I'm not asking a stranger. I'm asking someone who's already a friend. So this conversation is. Right. Even though my body is freaking out and telling me this conversation is wrong for me to be having.

Claire Messett

Yeah. And, and are you asking for you or

Erin McQuade-Wright

no?

Claire Messett

Mm-hmm. So

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah, I'm I'm asking for a really good cause Uhhuh

Claire Messett

that

Erin McQuade-Wright

I believe in and I know they believe in.

Claire Messett

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I. When you say, you know, they believe in this, how, how again? How do you know that?

Erin McQuade-Wright

Well, they, they have a history of giving.

Claire Messett

Mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Since before I came to work here, they've been giving,

Claire Messett

and so what is, apart from the history of giving, what is a benefit to them? Forgiving as well.

Erin McQuade-Wright

They get to support a mission that's aligned with their values.

Claire Messett

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also you mentioned the, the tax relief as well, so it's like, oh yeah, you're basically finding all these reasons why, um, because that's gonna be standard for. Fundraisers in general, the

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. There are tax benefits to

Claire Messett

giving. Exactly. And so it's kind of making this list in, in your head or writing it down beforehand, what are all the reasons why I am worthy, um, of inviting this company that this donor to donate?

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Claire Messett

And listing them down and, okay. Also, it's also worth, um, pointing out or just inquiring as an extra side, does you feeling worthy or not worthy, have anything to do with how worthy the company is that you're doing the fundraising for?

Erin McQuade-Wright

Well, I think the, the, yeah, the, the deep truth underneath that is I learned early on that in order to have every, have a peaceful home that I needed to not have needs, I needed to, you know, be a peacemaker and not have any needs of my own.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And I think when it came time to choosing a career, it felt a whole lot better for me to ask for a mission than for myself.

Claire Messett

Right.

Erin McQuade-Wright

So I found my way into work that was not terribly high paying. Mm-hmm. And that I wasn't asking for me, I was asking for the mission, and there was a hiding there for me that that went like a hand in a glove with how I. Learned early to take care of myself, which is by not having needs. So yeah, those are connected, the worthiness and, sure.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yeah. And, and then when we turn around the statement as well, we could also, you know, look at it from, um, the perspective of the, the company that you're fundraising. For, you know? Mm-hmm. Their mission is their mission worthy of receiving 200. Absolutely. Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

That's a, that's a clear yes.

Claire Messett

Yeah, exactly. And how does that feel in your body when you think of it from

Erin McQuade-Wright

just feels clean. It feels totally not muddy at all.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yeah. And so this, this exercise, it's about finding what works for you and going with it. Like what makes you, creates this feeling of calm.'cause everything is from the inside out. So whatever creates calmness in your body, go with that. Amplify it. And yeah, you're asking, you're inviting the, the donor to. Make this amazing con contribution that they've done many times before, um, from this place of abundance, expansion, possibility. And

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah, I can see now how in that situation, rather than focusing on. The donor's desire to do something good and the righteousness of the mission. I actually, because of my nervous system, freaking out, got in the way of that and made it about myself. Am I worthy of asking for this? Am I not worthy of asking for this? Either way, the spotlight went to me instead of to the donor, and that ju be with the spotlight on me. It amplified the feelings of inner freakout.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. And I can see how it took, it was a, it was an obstacle in that conversation. And now the donor, the donors were able to exhibit a lot of grace there, and so they, it, they didn't get derailed by my inner freakout. They were able to keep it on the tracks and we got. To a good place with the conversation, but mm-hmm. I can see how you say, do what works for you. Mm-hmm. And if I put myself in those shoes 10 years ago, I would have so much more calm mm-hmm. If I allowed the spotlight to stay on the donor and the mission of my organization and not made it about me.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I already feel more calm in my body now just saying that.

Claire Messett

Mm-hmm. And I'm guessing that this is gonna be something that lots of fundraisers will relate to.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. So what would be the practice, Claire, of if, if I have a pattern of unworthiness? Or if I have a pattern of the situation on the face of it is calm, but I'm freaking out inside, what's the practice that I could do before that meeting?

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

To make sure that I have, I don't lose myself in this little rabbit hole that I got lost in.

Claire Messett

Yeah. So writing down the reasons that you are. Worthy to receive, you know, to be part of receiving this huge amount of money, the, um, for the company, um, that you're fundraising for, to write down, um, what the donor gets outta. It to write down so that you're taking yourself out of the picture so you've got everything black and white. If you're still feeling really, um, tense, then something I, I love to do, um, before I go into. A meeting or some kind of negotiation or, you know mm-hmm. A high stakes conversation. Yeah. A high stakes conversation is to close your eyes. So I'll invite you to do this just now. Okay. And take a long, slow breath in through your nose and into your belly, and then a long, slow exhalation back out through your nose. And we'll do another breath. And this time in through the top of your head, just imagining this breath coming through the top of your head and into your heart space. And then imagining, exhaling that breath all the way down through your body. Deep, deep, deep into the ground. So it's lovely and grounding, and then inhaling that breath up through the ground, through your body into your heart space. And then exhaling that breath up through the top of your head. And as you're continuing to breathe in and outta your heart space, I'd like you to think of a person, place, or situation that brings you the feelings of worthiness. And calmness, confidence, and just noticing as you're remembering this experience, just noticing where you feel it in your body energetically.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, it feels like waves in my heart area.

Claire Messett

Beautiful. Just knowing that you have access to this boost of self-worth and confidence before you go into the meeting by just doing a few breaths. Mm-hmm. Activating that experience so that your body is feeling it energetically first. And then going into the meeting already, having centered yourself and grounded yourself so that you are, you're not reacting from a place of lack, fear, need, you are. Giving answers, um, from this abundant, expansive place that you've already created inside yourself through these memories and yeah. Yeah,

Erin McQuade-Wright

I, I remember hearing about this is a really nice feeling in my body. Thank you, Claire. I remember learning about actors going on auditions. And often at the beginning of their careers, they would enter those audition rooms feeling such great need to book a job, and inevitably they didn't get those jobs.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And at some point they talk about, many actors talk about this turning a corner where they'd had some success or some things had worked out in their favor and they could. Assess that they walked into the room with a genuine feeling of okayness, like, I don't need this job.

Claire Messett

Yeah,

Erin McQuade-Wright

and they got the job.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

It's happened so often that people come into that room with that feeling and then success follows. And I think fundraising. My theory is that this is what we're doing in the fundraising space. That by shifting our inner awareness from, I need, I need to, I have, I have already, and I'm inviting from a place of, I have that. Regardless of what the dollars are and your, your, your distance toward your goal for the year or for the quarter, that entering in that space of abundance causes that fundraising conversation to go better than it would have if we'd entered from a place of lack.

Claire Messett

Exactly. Exactly. Because the people that we are communicating with can feel us energetically. Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And you're, and you're saying, I think from a, a neuropsychotherapy point of view that that's not just a theory that we can feel each other on a nervous system level. Like that's true. And I thought, yeah. That we were, I, I thought I was doing a really good job at keeping it under wraps, but, but what you're saying is people could read it on me. They could feel it. They didn't need to see it on my face.

Claire Messett

Yeah, I mean, maybe not everybody, but you know, it depends how intuitive the people are, but we definitely, you know, it's like that thing of you could be walking along a road and it's really quiet, but you suddenly turn around'cause you just, you feel someone staring at you or you're on a bus or something. You know, there's all these funny situations where you just know without understanding how you feel. It, it's that kind of thing.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Ah.

Claire Messett

And so by giving ourselves all the tools we can to create that calm, grounded, abundant, expansive feeling in our nervous system first, then everything else will become easier. And you know, I, one of the, um, um. Always makes me think of, you know, let's say it's a, it's a really stormy sea and you've got a pa um, you know, the kind of captain on the ship, um, is, you've got two versions of them. One of them is really like getting stressed out and uh, the other one is very calm and grounded. Course we are always gonna want to be with the one that's calm and grounded, even though externally the same things are happening. We want to go with the one that feels calm and grounded. It's so important. And so even when you're not feeling calm and grounded by doing the the breathing exercises. By, you know, breathing into your belly, that immediately activates that rest and digest parasympathetic system. So you're kind of instructing your body. I've, I've got this because you're breathing deeply into your belly. So even when you're, um, imagining the breath, you know, breathing into your heart. Space, physically, you're still breathing into your belly, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, it, it's just a really a, a great tool. And then after you've. Kind of when you're running through things, not, not while you're actually in the conversation. So it could be before you go into the conversation if, if there are certain,

Erin McQuade-Wright

like pre visualizing how I want it to go.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Aha. Then doing some compassionate self forgiveness at the end is a really beautiful way to, um, again, just help, um, create this kind of safety in your nervous system.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Oh,

Claire Messett

great. And so will you show us

Erin McQuade-Wright

how to do that?

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So I'd like to invite you, Aaron, to. Close your eyes if it feels comfortable to do so, and just gently bringing one hand. Oh, you've already got one hand on on your chest. Lovely. Yeah, my hand is on

Erin McQuade-Wright

my heart, like I'm about to say the pledge of allegiance

Claire Messett

and yeah, so taking a long, slow breath in through your nose, and then a long, slow exhalation. I forgive myself for judging myself as not being worthy to ask for$250,000, and then

Erin McQuade-Wright

I forgive myself for judging myself as not being able, not being worthy to ask for$250,000.

Claire Messett

And then whatever your truth is, Erin,

Erin McQuade-Wright

and this is the truth. Is the truth is the fact that I am here in this room with these donors means that I'm worthy to have this conversation and asking is part of the conversation.

Claire Messett

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And. I forgive myself for judging myself as just give this as another example, as not being good enough or capable enough to attract ideal donors.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I forgive myself for judging myself as not able to attract ideal donors and get them to give. Yeah, the truth is. The donors giving or not giving to my mission is not based on me. Mm-hmm. It's based on their alignment with the mission and their desire to give.

Claire Messett

Yes, yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And the truth is when I make it about me. I decrease my own alignment and my own seat of power and my own peace and calm, that is up to me to cultivate.

Claire Messett

Yes. And, and I was also curious about, I'm, I'm gonna make an educated guess that, you know, fundraisers. Even great fundraisers here know a lot.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Claire Messett

Yeah. And, and so just kind of talking to, I guess you could call it like the elephant in the room as a fundraiser, you're going to hear, know a lot. Is that, would

Erin McQuade-Wright

you

Claire Messett

say that's, yeah. And so it's

Erin McQuade-Wright

this

Claire Messett

resilience, so

Erin McQuade-Wright

I can say as, as compassionate self forgiveness statement about that as as well. Yeah. I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding that. Hearing no. Mm-hmm. Means anything about me as a person. Yeah. The truth is the donors. Yes. Or the donors. No, is outside of my control and the only thing inside of Con my control is my own emotional experience. I'm in charge of that. I am not in charge of whether they say yes or no.

Claire Messett

Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And for some people, the truth could be that their nervous system learned to fear asking. Hmm. And so the truth is it can unlearn to,

Erin McQuade-Wright

oh, let me do that one. That one feels important. I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding that the way I learned to feel about money is forever. Mm-hmm. The truth is, I can change how I feel about money and I choose to see myself now. As a person who is expansive and open and grounded in discussions of money. Oh, that feels really good.

Claire Messett

Yeah. You get to choose how you want to feel.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. Yeah.

Claire Messett

And, and so yeah, and the, the truth is rejection. Is part of the job. It's not proof of inadequacy. Um, so

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah. And they're rejecting the, the, the request for a mom for a particular amount of money. They're not rejecting me. They're rejecting the request.

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Of can you give$250,000 to this campaign? They can reject that request and I'm perfectly fine because I am not what's being. I'm not asking them to approve of me. I'm asking them to approve a request.

Claire Messett

Yes. Yes,

exactly.

Erin McQuade-Wright

That feels important too.

Claire Messett

Yeah. Yeah. And is there anything else that from, you know, your, your time as a fundraiser that would, that you feel would be good as a compassionate self forgiveness statement that would help your listeners? Mm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I think those were the big ones, Claire. Yeah, those were the big ones. And I appreciate you guiding me through that process.

Claire Messett

And, and yeah, there was like another, like another one that came up, um, thought like the truth is fundraising is a relationship skill, not a personal worth test.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Ooh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about the importance of relationships.

Claire Messett

Yeah.

Erin McQuade-Wright

In fundraising and we talk about being intentional about how we engage with potential donors or how we cultivate those relationships that are already in place. It's all we, we talk so much about relationships and I, I love getting to discuss with you today how neuroscience plays into our relationality with each other. And most importantly, our relationship with ourself. So I wanna thank you, Claire, for being here and sharing your knowledge, sharing your wisdom with my listeners and with me. And I know they're gonna wanna keep in touch with you and learn more about what you are up to. So where is the best place to find you and follow your work?

Claire Messett

The best place would be my. Just going onto my website. Www.clairemessett.com. So that's C-L-A-I-R-E-M-E-S-S-E-T-T. And I do, um, talk a lot about the relationship we have with ourselves and the relationship we have with money and how that does reflect. The relationship that we have with ourselves as well. So, you know, you've touched on that and it's such a huge one. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and just really one of the things that I love to invite people to do, um, is to put themselves in, in a situation where. They imagine themselves being in a coffee shop, um, or, you know, just in a, in a, in a space that feels comfortable and sitting at the table is the energy of money and, ah. Then get guiding that person to have, uh, a dialogue with the energy of money. And it's really interesting the things that come up and how it, it's, so I think. Doing that would be really useful for your fundraisers as well, because, um, how we are with money is gonna reflect and how we are with, you know, inviting fundraisers and, you know, there's all these different patterns and how we are with ourselves and these patterns show up in, in these different aspects of our life. So that's a good, uh, a good. Um, little practice you can, you can do as well.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And if people wanna dive more into the money stuff with you, is there a way that they can do that?

Claire Messett

Um, yeah. I do online, um, workshops. So when, I will probably do one in February. Um, so if people are interested, they can go onto my website and then they can. You know, see when any upcoming workshops are, um, I'll be doing the online one, um, for free. So yeah, that's a excellent, an invitation for, for February. It's my birthday in February, so I'm gonna be doing like a, yeah, a birthday kind of workshop to help people.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Wonderful. Well, I invite my community to check Claire out on her website, clairemessett.com, and keep up with what she's up to. And Claire, I just wanna thank you so much for your time today and for, for spending time with me and my community.

Claire Messett

Thank you very much. Lovely to be here.

Erin McQuade-Wright

As we wrap up today's episode, I wanna leave you with a few key takeaways that you can carry with you into your fundraising. First, money is not just a practical issue, it's a nervous system experience. Even when the money isn't yours, your body is still responding to safety, threat and meaning when money enters the conversation. Second, when anxiety shows up before an ask, it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. It often means an old learned pattern is being activated. Those patterns are adaptive. They can be unlearned. Third, fundraising is not a personal worth test. A donor's yes or no is about alignment, timing, and capacity, not about your value as a fundraiser or as a human. Fourth, regulation changes everything. When you soften your body, slow your breath and stay present, You create the conditions for clearer thinking, stronger relationships, and more authentic invitations to give. And finally asking from abundance doesn't mean pretending you don't need the money. It means staying grounded in your worth and letting the spotlight remain on the donor and the mission not on your self-doubt. If you'd like to learn more about Claire and her work exploring money, identity, and the nervous system, you can find her@clairemess.com, which I've linked in the show notes. Thanks for spending this time with me today. Take care of your internal climate, and I'll see you next time on the Brave and Balanced Fundraiser.