Husky Hotseat
Welcome to Husky Hotseat! This podcast takes you inside the world of Hubble Middle School through fun, relaxed interviews with our teachers and staff. Learn what inspires them, their favorite Hubble memories, and maybe even a few surprises along the way!
Husky Hotseat
Episode 6 - Gettin' Jiggy ... with Dr. Matt Epperley
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This week on Husky Hotseat, we welcome Matt Epperley, Hubble's assistant principal! Join host Eric Elftmann, as we talk about getting a doctorate, Dr. Epperley's middle school sports accomplishments, very complex fishing equipment, and how to survive a trip to the principal's office! Oh, and maybe you can discover Dr. Epperley's top-secret hunting location!
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Husky Hotseat, the show for students, parents, and staff to get to know the Hubble community. I'm your host, Eric Elfman, and each week on Husky Hotseat, you and I get to sit down with a member of our Hubble staff to ask them the answers to the tough questions. This week I'm here with Dr. Matt Epperly. Dr. Epperly is Hubble's assistant principal and has been at Hubble for the last two years. He's been in education for 16 years. Matt and his wife Kelly have been married for 12 years and they have two children, Matthew and Grace. Dr. E, welcome to Husky Hot Seat. Thank you for being here. Now, I want to start with this. Before you were an administrator, you actually started your career as a counselor in Southern Illinois. I was wondering what led you down that path to begin with.
SPEAKER_01Great question, and thank you for having me, Mr. Elfman. You know, I I think from a young age, people like to tell me stories, and uh I again I I love being around kids. Growing up in Southern Illinois, there's there's not a whole lot to do. You either worked at the prison, you worked in a um a uh in the medical field, or you worked in schools. Uh and so my dad worked at the prison. I knew I I had no interest in doing that. Uh my mom was a nurse. I I don't do needles, they freak me out. Um and so school seemed like to be something that uh I wanted to pursue uh just because I enjoyed being around kids. And so with that said, I I I have a tremendous amount of respect for teachers, but I wanted to lean in on what I was passionate about, and again, talking to people, helping them through hard times uh seemed to be something that again people would continue to come to me and share things about. And so I went into counseling and I thought, well, if people are gonna tell me their problems, I might as well get paid for it.
SPEAKER_00So that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so what made you decide to go to the dark side? I mean, sorry, to become an administrator.
SPEAKER_01That that's a great question. I think if I'm being honest, originally after I'd finished my master's degree in counseling, I uh a person told me, hey, if you ever are thinking about going into administration, I heard they're changing up the certification requirements. And so if you get in now, that you you won't have to do as much. And so I was like, well, well, let's try that. And I think as my career progressed, I started to see that I I was working with a small group of students as a counselor individually, one-on-one, or in small group, and I I just thought I'd I'd rather have a larger impact on a school, or that how do I put pieces in place that would kind of I don't know, like be the conductor of the orchestra, so to speak, and helping people figure out what their niche is and uh again empowering other adults to help students the way that I was having success.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell You mentioned that you got into counseling because you liked working with kids, but obviously as an administrator you start to work a lot more with adults. Was that a difficult transition for you?
SPEAKER_01You know, um it's definitely a transition. I just I I've kind of always thought adults are big kids, at least myself. I I I don't take myself too too seriously. And at the end of the day, everybody wants to feel seen, wants to feel heard. And so whether you're a student or whether you're an adult, it's really meeting people where they're at, helping them kind of navigate some of all of the challenges. I've loved to be a problem solver. And so sitting down with other people and and working through those problems and also, again, helping lead a school, that to me, it just, I don't know, it kind of naturally progressed into something that I wanted to do and wanted to pursue.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That makes sense. You said that you don't take yourself too seriously. Can you take a moment for the listening audience and describe the socks that you are currently wearing right now?
SPEAKER_01I've had two comments today. So basically, these are my dumpster fire socks. Um they are gray socks with a green dumpster that one of the lids is open. Uh and there there is a raging fire uh coming out of that. And it's funny you ask, anytime that I'm gonna do a speaking event, I always wear these because if I ever get into a pinch, what I do is is I uh I pull my sock up and I'd say, well, it's it it couldn't get much worse than this dumpster fire sock. I love it. I use it as kind of a way to get out of a situation or draw some humor.
SPEAKER_00That's smart. I like it a lot. All right. This is gonna be kind of a vulnerable question. It may not be humorous. I don't know. We'll find out if you're willing. Can you think of an initiative or a program that you came up with as an administrator that just absolutely fell flat? Now for the record, this is not a loaded question. I'm not thinking of one, but just something that you like. I tried this and wow, did that not go the way I thought it was going to?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think to some degree, almost everything that we try, there's some hiccup or bump in the road. Sure. I think early on in my career, you're striving for perfection, and it, you know, it's it never goes that way. And I think it's being okay with things not going your way, and really starting then to shift and pivot and to seek others who are gonna pick your idea apart. And I always say, let's build something, or I I like to start with building something and then let's see if we can break it, and run it through kind of all of the different tests or different viewpoints, or uh having a lot of different adults or even kids ask those hard questions and how that idea then evolves into something bigger than incorporates other ideas. To me, that's it, that's been a shift, probably one of the more challenging shifts, I think, in my career of not you when you make something or you lead something, you you want it, you've you've got this vision. And I think sometimes that can be very linear. As that has started to shift, it's embracing those changes and actually welcoming that constructive feedback that really kind of polishes something that I thought was great, but then takes it to that whole other level and brings in a uh perspective that I didn't have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. It seems like, especially in education, having multiple voices speak into something is necessary because there's no lone genius that has the best idea all the time. And sometimes it takes some small failures to get moving forward. That's great. So you've been an administrator for 10 years or so? Does that sound accurate?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yeah. This is year 10.
SPEAKER_00And in that time, how have you seen the responsibilities or you know, that role specifically change in in the last decade?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell It's a hard one to answer because my role has changed a lot. Okay. And so, you know, this is my first building level leadership position. In the past, I moved straight from being a counselor into district administration. And so that's a that's a tough one to really answer, but I think as I have evolved, I think my leadership has evolved in thinking around uh whether it's at the district level or for prior to Hubble, I was at a a special ed cooperative. And so every every situation requires something a little bit different. And you know, when when I was in a district level position, you know, you make decisions and I always say you kind of live or die by those decisions. And then when I went to a co-op, it was very much I made no decisions. I was kind of like the Scottie Pippen of the Bulls in the 90s. Like I was never gonna get all the credit, but you influenced the outcome of a game or you influenced decisions that were being made. And I really I think that was probably a really good move in my career, just in terms of I wasn't ever going to make the decision, but I had to influence those decisions. And so there's a different set of skills that comes with that. Um and now being back in a building, I just I wanted to be back around kids.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell I wanted to talk a little bit about your doctoral research. First, so for the audience, you and our other Hubble administrator, Dr. Pilgton, both have doctorates, as well as some of our teachers and Husky Hot Seat guests. I just wanted to tell the audience a little bit about the workload it takes to do that, to get your doctorate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I would love to tell you this great story and how you know everything fell into place. There were there were many nights of wanting to quit, wanting to stop. There were, I'll never forget there was one night or one morning on a Saturday, which I guess to go backwards. Every Wednesday I had class for two and a half years, and then uh on Wednesday nights and then Saturdays. And so there was a lot of time away from home. I had a one-year-old child at home, uh, another one on the way, and I'll never forget I was almost done, and it was a snowy January morning, and I remember my son looking at me and goes, Will you stay home and be my dad? And it just broke my heart. I remember driving to Aurora University and I'm just like, What am I doing? Oh my gosh, I I'm gonna mess my kids up all just because I'm trying to pursue a degree, and you know, and and we all worked through it, and I think everybody's fine now. But uh I I gotta say I have the most uh uh supportive family, my wife Kelly, I I couldn't have done it without her. There were a lot of people uh along the way. And I remember when I graduated and I walked out of my dissertation defense, I said, we got a doctorate today, because there were so many different people that helped support me along the way, and I can't take all the credit for that. So it's a it's a long, arduous process, but it's very rewarding. And uh I was actually just talking to Dr. Verga the other day, and I said I miss the depth of conversation from some of those classes, and just there's a bunch of people who are, and my apologies to anybody who's completed a doctorate, but we're just a bunch of nerds that like to nerd out on certain things. And it's really, I think as a person who loves to learn and learn from others, to watch somebody get so deep into something, I may not have any interest in it, but I get interested when somebody has that much passion around something. I find that just to be, I don't know, invigorating and I work out.
SPEAKER_00Very engaging for sure. Um, one of the focal points of your research for your doctorate was on ACEs. And for those unfamiliar, that's A C E adverse childhood experiences. Could you give the Husky Hot Seat audience just a quick overview of what ACEs are, what that means?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So an adverse childhood experience is um there there's actually a test for it. It's like there's 10 questions, and really it centers around, again, an adverse experience during those formatted years of um birth to 18 years old. And it could be something like a divorce of a parent, a death of a parent, incarceration of a parent, abuse, all of these things. And the focus of my research was to look at the dispositions of school administrators around uh of their discipline practices, and then what's your AC score? When you were growing up as a kid, did you have a lot of trauma or were you exposed to a lot of trauma in your life? And how does that impact on how you work with kids and in uh relation to discipline? And so uh I had a lot of assumptions and and again a little self-disclosure here. I had a I had a pretty significant ACE score growing up, and I had always thought I'm a little bit different than other administrators, and I wonder why I approach things differently. And kind of my hypothesis was was was some of that trauma that I experienced as a as a youth, did that shape how I interacted with people? And I again I kind of look back to some key figures in my life and how they worked with me when I was struggling as a junior high student or high school student. You know, you're you're an adolescent and you've got all these problems and and growing pains. And so I started to look at what I needed during those times, and it looked very different than what was being offered. And so for those people that had supported me through those moments, it was kind of one of those aha moments for me. And I kind of wanted to just get deeper into that. So I had I I could basically put some academic language to what I did instead of just being like, well, it's all about relationships and I work with kids. And how do I take that and actually be able to articulate that in a way that's, you know, at a higher level and share that with other adults to help support kids?
SPEAKER_00So we're gonna do one last question before we take a break. You mentioned discipline. You handle most of the discipline issues here at Hubble. So if a student gets a referral from a teacher, they're hard to see you at some point. I want you to give some advice to the students that are doing the slow, scary walk down to Dr. Epperly's office. What would you say to that kid when they're when they're about to walk in? How should they handle themselves, handle the situation, et cetera?
SPEAKER_01I think to uh uh the first thing that comes to my mind is honesty. I I am a much I'm much more forgiving and and um willing to work with somebody. If you're honest and you're willing to kind of be vulnerable and to exp just you know lay it all out there and say, yeah, I screwed up. I would say the other piece of that puzzle is come with a solution. Come with a game plan of how you're gonna do something different. And and even if even if you don't have that in mind, brainstorm with me. I I want to do something different, I don't know how. So I I think those are two key pieces as to coming down to my office, I want to hear from you. And I I hope it's not a scary experience. I'm not going for that. I'm I really want to better understand why people make the decisions that they make and then help support them through those challenges. Because the reality is we all make mistakes and we're probably going to until the day we die, and it's how we learn from those and reflect on those so we don't make the same mistakes again.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so be honest, be open to changing the behavior and finding a way to make that change. Yeah. All right. Fantastic. All right. We are going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Portrait of a Middle Schooler. Hey, Huskies, we are back with our guest, Dr. Epperly, and I hope you're ready for one of our favorite segments, Portrait of a Middle Schooler. Strange hairstyles, weird outfits, old nicknames, they're all about to come back and haunt you, Dr. E. So I want you to describe your middle school self for us. Tell us where you went to middle school, maybe what you looked like, what activities you did, and this would be a great time also to drop any embarrassing middle school stories you have about yourself.
SPEAKER_01Oh gosh, middle school, yeah. So I went to uh Marion Junior High in Marion, Illinois. Um my middle school experience, I would say, would be pretty typical-ish. Um I don't know if that's a good way to say it. Um not sure that's a word, but yeah, that's okay. Yeah, there we go. Um I, you know uh I I was a uh school always came pretty easy to me. I didn't have to study a lot. Um I again I did pretty well. Um I played basketball in uh seventh and eighth grade. We went to state, got second place in state. I also ran track, uh, went to state and high jump, believe it or not.
SPEAKER_00You seem like someone who could jump really high, obviously, when they look at you. That's first thing I think about.
SPEAKER_01I I don't think I can jump that high anymore. But um I uh I will say this. It's uh yeah, and and I ran track, I did uh high jump, I did uh I think the 400-meter relay. Um I I do not enjoy jumping and running anymore. That is not uh a focus of BID. So much.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so athletics was a big part of your middle school experience. Yes, yes. Okay. What do you think that middle school Matt would think about you now being an assistant principal?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell He would laugh. Um that that was not even on my game plan for uh uh in middle school or even high school. I didn't even want to go to college, to be honest with you. I I uh wanted to work for the I wanted to be a lineman uh or an electrician. I wanted to work in electricity and things like that. And uh I'll be honest, I I had no desire to go to college. My uncle actually encouraged me to go uh while I was trying to get into the IBW electrical in uh union. College was so different. I didn't have adults breathing down my neck, wanting to, you know, turn this in, get this done, do this right. I I remember I had a teacher and I turned something in late, and they said, I don't even care if you turn it in or at all. Like if you fail, then guess what? You're gonna come back and spend more money, and that keeps my job and job security. And I thought, so now this is all on me. And and that was kind of a turning point, I think, in my life of really saying, All right, I I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do in life. Uh again, I I left the whole electrical union thing and uh idea on the table and kept going to college and yeah, just kept going.
SPEAKER_00So looking back then, now as an adult, and you've you kind of laid this out a little bit about some of those decisions you made, what advice would you give yourself as a middle schooler, knowing what you know now?
SPEAKER_01I wish I would have studied a little bit harder. I wish I would have read more. Uh when I got to college, my math skills weren't where they needed to be, so I had to take some remedial math classes to get up to where, you know, like an entry-level math class. One of my first papers that I wrote for my master's degree, the professor got a D on it. And the I went in and uh Dr. Zaramsky was his name. He was a mentor of mine in the counseling program, and I remember him saying, Look, I'm not condemning you as a person, but you write like you speak, like you're from Southern Illinois. And I was like, ouch, that stings. And he goes, But I'll sit here and I'll work with you. And so he edited three-fourths of my paper, and then we worked on the last fourth of my paper. I revised that thing at least 11 times to get an A. And so there was always a hunger and a drive to do better. And so I always I liked the challenge. And so I I guess that's what I would tell my middle school self to don't shy away from those challenges. Hit them head on, run right through them and persevere through those things.
SPEAKER_00I love that advice, and I think it could be pretty useful for any students that are currently in middle school right now. All right, it is time for another break, and we will be right back. Welcome back, Pack. We are still hanging with our guest, Dr. Epperly. Uh, we've heard a lot about doctoral research, about him bragging how high he can jump, but I'd love to get a little bit into Dr. Epperly's life outside of school. So uh I know when I talked to him earlier, he said that his grandfather was someone who's pretty influential. And so, Dr. Epperly, I'd like you to just kind of tell us a little bit about him.
SPEAKER_01My grandfather, Robert Eugene Peterson, he uh fought in World War II. He liberated concentration camps in in Germany. And then when he came home from the war, obviously, they settled down in a little town called Goreville, Illinois. I my fondest memories were being down at their farm. They've got 20 acres and a barn, and they had uh cattle and a garden, a massive garden. And so I would spend a majority of my summer there and and as a little kid we played baseball in the in the backyard. Um, I would help him, you know, pick tomatoes and pick corn and then we would and green beans. We would crack green beans in the summertime and all of those things. And then as I started to get older, and you know, there's that rebellious side of you as a as an adolescent, I started to to do a lot of fishing, and he and I would fish and it was kind of my outlet, and that was my uh I guess when I felt like the whole world was against me. There was one place that I felt safe, that I felt heard, that I felt like, you know, somebody understood me. And and so nature was a big part of that, fishing was a big part of that, but he he was a big part of my life. And I think too how he approached me whenever I was not my best self, I guess you would say. There was never yelling, there was never, you know, anything it was just really came from a place of care. And so I think you know, when I look back on even how I deal or work with situations that come up now in schools, I there's an element of that that runs through me and how I approach a student having a hard time. And I think of, you know, what would how how would how would I have wanted to be approached during that situation.
SPEAKER_00Is your grandmother still on the farm?
SPEAKER_01She is. She she lives at home. She's she's had some falls here lately, and but she she bounces back. She's she's tough. Uh they don't build them like that anymore, my grandparents, you know, coming from the Great Depression era.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. All right. To be honest, fishing is not something I know about at all. Dad tried to take me to not stick. Sorry, Dad. I'm going to read something verbatim that you sent me, and I want you to please interpret this sentence for me and the Husky Hot Seat audience. You said, quote, crappie fishing, I'm pretty tough to beat with a 12-foot jigpole and live scope. Now I'm sure Ms. Heller understands this, but please give me a breakdown here. All right.
SPEAKER_01You know, uh about, oh gosh, I don't know how many years ago it's been, maybe eight to ten, uh forward-facing sonar came out. And so forward-facing sonar has kind of revolutionized the fishing industry. Wherever you point that Sonar, you can see whatever's under the water. You can see a tree, the fish light up and almost look like uh Christmas lights in a Christmas tree. I started to learn it. It was it was a good summer of being frustrated because the technology, it it had nothing to do with the technology, it was all about me and my inability to be able to use it. But I learned I've learned so much about fish behavior and watching them on the screen. A jig pole is basically, you've got different kinds of poles, but for crappie fishing, oftentimes the fish will be in trees, and so instead of casting to them, some people will use a long pole, a 12-foot jig pole, and on the end of that it will be a jig. Uh and so a jig is basically a hook that's got lead around the eyelet of that uh hook to make it uh weighted on one end, and then you put a soft plastic on there. So uh my favorite uh soft plastic would be a Bobby Garland baby shad swimmer in the color monkey milk. Um it looks like a minnow. I know it sounds crazy, but if you know, it's maybe not getting yeah, if you know, you know.
SPEAKER_00That must be what that means. You said you learned a lot about fish behavior. Did you see any correlation between fish behavior and middle school student behavior?
SPEAKER_01Oh gosh, I've never thought about it that way. Um I'd have to get back to you on that one, but uh No, not really I mean no.
SPEAKER_00No. Okay. That's you could just say no. That's all right. Yeah. Before sitting down and record this, you mentioned that you've gotten to travel all over the U.S. to pursue your outdoor adventures. Of the places you've been, what place do you really want to get back to as soon as you get a chance?
SPEAKER_01North Dakota. I'm I'm a very private person, I think, and I I don't like a lot of busy chaos, but surprisingly so. I know that sounds crazy working in a middle school. Where I think I recharge my batteries and I find my peace is laying in a field in central North Dakota and right at the peak migration in early November, uh, when ducks and geese are flying down from Canada and making their great migration south as they do every year. And yeah, there's a there's a place I'm not gonna say it on here just in case the guys I go with, we call them they're the boys, and uh they would be mad if I told the exact Central North Dakota, and uh again it's it's probably one of the best places I've been. Most people would say you're crazy for ever wanting to go there.
SPEAKER_00It's a pretty big state. I bet someone can find their own place to lay down and hunt geese if they need to. Do your kids enjoy fishing, hunting?
SPEAKER_01You know, uh no. I I'll be honest. Uh my daughter uh has she likes makeup and all things. She'll go with me out fishing, but she doesn't fish. She'll just suntan or hang out with dad. And my son, he's been, he he likes he loves sports. And I think maybe one day he'll get into it. He's expressed some interest. You know, he's 11 years old, getting ready to turn 12, and so his interests aren't really where mine are right now, and that's okay too.
SPEAKER_00What things do they beg you to do with them?
SPEAKER_01We we have family game night. So we we do play a lot of rummy, card games, different types of board games. There's the occasional, believe it or not, there's dance parties at the Epperly House where we'll turn off all of the lights. Uh maybe dad's on the island dancing and uh having a good time with uh glow sticks or the the hoops that you can put around your neck and so the Epperly rave. We all know it's a big rave at the Epperly House. So it's fun. Yeah, I like to have fun.
SPEAKER_00I want to really quickly circle back to what you said about being an introvert. Do you find it difficult to be in a job that has a lot of on time?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell You know, I've come to enjoy it. I love the fast pace, I love being around kids, I love the messy chaos that all things uh it just encompasses middle school. But there comes a point where I've I've got to go and recharge, and that to me is and it I think it doesn't take long. I can go fishing for an afternoon and come back and I'm I'm ready to roll again. But there's a a peaceful solitude, I think, that comes with being in nature that kind of really grounds me and it forces me to slow down because I do love the fast pace and the chaos and the crazy, but I also need to learn when to take a break and recharge.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm glad you've found those places that you can recharge. We're gonna take one more short break ourselves, and we'll be back with our final segment. Okay, huskies, before we go, it's time for Throw the Dog a Bone. Each episode, we like to sign off by answering one completely random question. Dr. Epperly does not know the question I'm about to ask, and I have no idea what he's gonna say, so it could get interesting. All right, Dr. E, here's your question. If you could instantly master one skill right now, no practice at all, you just knew how to do it, what would it be and why? I'll give you a second to think and tell you my answer. I always like to think about these answers when I'm figuring out these questions. Uh, my wife's a Spanish teacher and I speak muy poquito. Uh, I can understand a decent amount because we used to use the language to talk over the kids' heads, so they didn't know, but now they're actually both better Spanish speakers than I am. So if I could turn on a switch and speak Spanish, that would be definitely my number one skill right now that I would switch to. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01That actually would probably be mine as well. Um I, you know it's amazing to watch Dr. Pilkington like interact with students. And when you see some of our ML students who may or may not speak a lot of of English, when you see him speak to them and Spanish and their their whole demeanor changes, you watch their shoulders drop, they feel more at ease and more comfortable. I would love to be able to do that. I would love to be able to connect. We have a large Spanish speaking population here, and I don't speak Spanish. And so there's there's something missing. And I often joke sometimes. I tell him that I would like to go away to like Mexico for the summer and just immerse myself in either it's sink or swim, and I'm gonna have to learn how to speak it so I could come back. And I think that so I could support students and our families better.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm sure there's some good fishing somewhere in Mexico too, if you're you know, as long as you're going.
SPEAKER_01There absolutely is great fishing down there, yes.
SPEAKER_00All right, speaking of fishing, before we go, I wanted to touch on the extracurricular activity that you sponsor, which is fishing club. So obviously everyone has heard how passionate you are about that. Can you just give us a quick fishing club pitch for students that haven't had a chance to check it out yet?
SPEAKER_01Whether you uh it's your first time fishing or and you've never fished before, or you are you've been doing it for your whole life, uh, and you know everything there is to know about it. Uh, there's a place for you here at Hubble and the fishing club. We love to we go to Herrick Lake, we we fish there, we learn about fishing lures. Uh I've had guest speakers come in from uh one of our our guides for snow goose hunting. He's a cat fisherman on the uh in mussel shoals down in Alabama. Um we had Dr. Craig Lawrence come from the high school who's the coach for the bass fishing team and kind of share things. So there's there's all kinds of stuff from actually fishing to learning the technical aspects. And like I said, if you if you love to fish or you want to learn more about fishing, come join us. And not to mention, at the end of the year, we do have a big fish fry. And so it's pretty good stuff.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that sounds great. That is the end of our show. Thank you for listening to Husky Hot Seat. I want to thank our guest, Dr. Epley, for his time. If you see him around the Hubble community, say hello and maybe ask him something about what you heard about on the show. Crappie fishing, his state basketball championship in middle school, how high you can jump, maybe you can ask him to see that. Don't forget to follow us on our Instagram, Husky Hotseed Podcast, for updates about the show. If you liked what you heard on Husky Hotseat, remember to subscribe to the show. We're available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and pretty much anywhere else you'd like to listen to your podcast. If you really want to help the show grow, please leave a review on your podcast app of choice. And finally, spread the news about the show to people you know. The internet is great, but the goal of Husky Hotseed is to build connection within our Hubble community. So the more staffed, parents, and students that listen, the tighter we become. Remember, Huskies, none of us are lone wolves. We work best in a pack.