Ep18: Grounding in Chaos: Jennie Pool on Healing and Safety

Unfamiliar Isn’t Unsafe: Healing the Nervous System After Trauma.

On the Irene Podcast, therapist Jennie Pool returns to discuss healing and nervous system safety, emphasizing that “unfamiliar is not the same as unsafe” and that change requires building nervous-system capacity to tolerate the unfamiliar rather than relying on willpower. They explore how people may loop back to harmful patterns because the nervous system prefers familiar pain, how grounding and rest help recalibrate, and how nature, movement, and personal rituals (like walking, fresh air, or earthing) reduce tension. They describe challenges after abusive relationships, including expecting “the other shoe to drop” in healthy relationships, and how safe partners and secure attachment bonds help reorient to peace. Practical steps include identifying safe places and people, connecting to community resources, rebuilding self-care routines, and using 24/7 tools for support. They also cover helping adult children heal from abusive homes through invitations to therapy, respecting window of tolerance, listening, apologizing, and modeling repair.

00:00 Welcome Back Jennie
00:44 Familiar Versus Safe
02:16 Rewiring For Safety
03:46 Rest And Recovery
04:13 Grounding In Nature
06:46 City Energy And Adaptation
07:55 Ocean Healing Ions
09:24 Safe Love After Chaos
12:42 Attachment As Anchor
14:32 Daily Grounding After Abuse
16:29 Micro Self Care Steps
17:04 Movement And Fresh Air
20:33 Community Resources Help
21:18 Helping Adult Children Heal
23:03 Window Of Tolerance
24:57 Be A Safe Parent
29:50 Hold Space And Repair
32:31 Apologies Teach Skills
33:42 Podcast Wrap Up

Jennie with Mend Counseling

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Irene podcast. We have a guest with us today that you've seen before on the podcast, but she's back. She'll be back more too because we love having Jenny Poole with us.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

I love being here. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

She's a therapist, a local therapist, and she does amazing work and she has amazing insight. And so we're just going to talk a little bit about healing and nervous system and different things that that just come up in our conversation because we really just want to help people to heal. So absolutely. So will you s say what you just said to me off camera again? Because I think that was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

I think it's such a great quote to start this podcast. Unfamiliar is not the same as unsafe. And until that lands in your nervous system, you'll keep choosing a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven. The work isn't about willpower, it's about cultivating a nervous system that has the capacity to hold the unfamiliar long enough to let it become your new normal. And I think it's really important because, you know, nervous system safety is truly the the is how we bookmark moving forward out of terrible situations. And unless the unless our new normal can feel safe, like you said, you can just keep looping. And some people get really frustrated, like, why can't I just get out of this? Like logically, this doesn't make sense. Well, because the nervous system is talking. Yeah, it remembers. And and like I said, sometimes the familiar hell is better than the unfamiliar heaven. I thought that was that's such such poignant.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

When things are unfamiliar, it feels uncomfortable sometimes. Like when you're moving through life, whether you're building a business or whatever you're doing, like there's things that will come up that feel like unfamiliar and maybe scary, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't go there. It just means like you don't have experience there. But for me, I'm like, let's ride. Let's see where this takes us. Because it's usually just like you'll get to the point too. Sorry, I'm a little la la la. You'll get to the point too where you like will feel that and you'll recognize the difference between the safety and the unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

You do have to train your nervous system to accept that new wiring, right? And and and it's it's the conversations, those in there's outward conversations, but there's inward conversations. It's what wasn't safe then is safe today. What wasn't safe then, I'm you know, in even if your body's warring with like it's safe today. Well, I don't know if it's safe today. Well then I make room for the possibility of creating safety in my life so that I can resource that safety and I can believe that I'm safe today and that I can have safe people and safe places and not be caught in these terrible storms anymore.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, yeah. And and giving yourself time to like resettle into that new new again to you, you know, because like maybe you felt that way before, uh a situation or a relationship or an experience, but somehow you kind of got off over here, like mixed up, and and your your nervous system was trained to react to and respond a certain way that typically you wouldn't. So just as much as you were trained that way, you have to retrain back to that peace and that safety and to trusting yourself. And the podcast the podcast guest that I spoke with last week on the podcast was saying that that intuition, like relying on your intuition, but but when you're fresh out of a situation, sometimes you don't know what that intuition feels like or sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

It's why it's like when people exercise or they're like doing marathons, you know, they they eventually need to take a break. It's like the body goes, okay, we're done. We need rest and recovery. And that rest and recovery is where the nervous system can come in and go, okay, yeah, let's unwind, let's let's recalibrate, let's heal and repair.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah. So yeah, and for me, like in life, I sometimes will like if I have a lot of meetings where I'm around a lot of people, because I'm a very empathetic person, sometimes being around a lot of people and talking to a lot of people and doing a lot of things for four days straight, I'm like, I need to sit in my backyard, put my feet in the grass, put the sun on my face, yeah, and just reset. Yeah. And for me, that's what it takes. I mean, it can look different for other people, but for me, I can be grounded within a couple hours if I just get outside by myself. My husband will pop out and he'll be like, Oh, you're doing your thing. Okay. And he'll go back and knows that I just need to be alone sometimes. And it's not a personal thing against anybody, it's just I need that for me. Yeah. So that I can show up how I really want to show up for everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah. So it's a it's an equation of tension and then getting the tension off, right? So no matter how the tension's coming on, the collective system, right? So there's stressors that create tension, there's the things we do with our body that create tension, there's the the expectations we have, right? We're up against these responsibilities and expectations. And so to the degree that the tension's on top of you, you got to get the tension off, right? That's equilibrium. And if you're getting snowed or kind of bulldozed by the tension, that's when the system starts being frazzled. Yeah, it can't keep up, and that's when it starts decompensating and shutting down, right? Those are the those are the shutdowns or the implosions. Like I just can't take anymore.

unknown 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Which I've experienced both. When I do it, it's like which day am I gonna go in or I'm gonna go out?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, and and when it gets hotter, it gets harder to do those things because I'm from San Diego originally. And so any day of the week, you can go outside and get sun on your face and put your feet in the ground. But yeah, here when it's a hundred and something degrees outside, maybe you got like five minutes out there before you have to go back and just go back and get obstacle number 10.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

But I I think that it's important for whatever situation you're in to figure out what it is for you that helps you feel that like because being grounded, like even just putting your feet on the grass, laying on the grass, whatever it is. Like, I'll just walk outside barefoot sometimes. And and that's just like a uh enough to give me that little relief from from the chaos of everything that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Well, I mean, there's a whole like earthing thing, right? Being grounded to the electromagnetic. So when people have their shoes off and they're on, you know, the dirt and the ground. I think that's one of the reasons why it's great to let your kids play and and let them play in the dirt and those kinds of things. But yeah, there is something to really grounding. That's one of the reasons why people get so much respite in nature. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, and so I think about people that live in places like New York City, and I'm like, what do they do?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah, they have to be creative.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah, because I feel like that would for me, I couldn't live in a place like that because I would feel all of that energy all the time.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

It's hard for me sometimes to like put up that protection for myself if it's really, really heavy like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah. It is interesting, like even when you look at atmosphere and you look at location and what people adapt to, right? Yeah. If if you're in a place where you're not used to the hustle and bustle of like really busy cities and subways, and whether it's New York or some of the other really busy cities, you get around it and you feel almost suffocated by it. And like, you know, the first time I visited New York and we were in the subway, I was blown away at how little people cared about personal space. Like you just everyone just got really close to you. And I was like, wow, like you just all are okay if you all just touch each other on this spot. And yeah, it was like so normal for them. Yeah, yep, just get on the thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah. I mean, we adapt so mu well to wherever we are.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

But like even when I go from southern Utah back to San Diego, I feel a difference. I feel a difference driving there. Like I you can feel the energy shift driving there.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

There's something about the ocean though, I think bringing in a lot of negative ions as the waves come crashing in. And for those who are unfamiliar with negative ions, they kind of clean the space. You can feel you can find negative ions in any running body of water. So it doesn't the negative ions don't kind of accumulate in like ponds and stuff, but in stagnant water. But when the water's moving, that's why it feels smells so fresh and so clean. Yeah. Like it really cleans the air. And then and then as people kind of sit there in the waves, they can just watch them for hours because it's decompressing that nervous system. There's like all that fresh air, you know. It's just uh that's why some people who are beachies get landlocked and they're like, I miss the beach.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Well, yeah, I do. Yeah. I do. I would take in the summertime, it would be me and probably like six or seven other women. We'd all and these are women that I didn't see almost the whole year, but every summer, this group of women, we all had kids that loved the beach, and we would all just go to the beach with our kids. That's great. It was the most amazing thing because first of all, the kids don't even want anything to do with you, which is great because they're occupied with their friends in the water and the sand and you know, playing football on the beach or whatever it is, which is great because they get what they need, you get what you need. You're sitting there chatting with your friends, and your kids are completely occupied. It's great. But the family and your community, yeah. The smell of the water, the the crashing of the waves, just like yeah, just everything about being at the beach for me is just healing. Oh that's cool. Yeah. It's it's just so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, and everybody can like build those places of respite if they don't have the beach outside, right? Is what are my spaces of respite? And when people are trying to get familiar with nervous system safety, like you know, I see I see it all the time in the people I counsel with, is you know, they've come from really stressful, chaotic relationships, even sometimes really abusive, toxic relationships, and then they land in a place where they're in a healthy relationship and they and they almost are like waiting constantly for the other shoe to drop, like you're being too nice. You know, people don't talk like that. You were listening to my feelings, you do that today, but not tomorrow. Like, when's this gonna change? And so their nervous system just is so activated, even in a in an environment where there's there's peace because they're not used to the peace. Yeah, you're not used to the like healthier behavior.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Where the peace would last this long, and then so like you said, they're waiting for that other shoe to drop because it always does.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yep, and so it takes and so and if they have a patient partner that's helping them recalibrate, right, is just talk to me and I understand you're you came from a chaotic place, like I'm here. And so they can hold in in the in their working on it, because you know, people can hold space for you and be really patient with you, but you still gotta do the work, right? To let your system heal because it can't do it all for you. So that now safe in in a safe place with a safe person, then I can reorient to to safety, and then you can start to be like, oh, this is how people respond when they're angry, this is what's appropriate, this is this is what's mature, oh, this is emotional regulation. And now I can start cataloging that, I can start bookmarking that. And now this can as it gets more and more familiar and it gets more and more consistent, like it stays consistent over time, then I can be like, this is my new normal, and I can trust it. And so then the nervous system starts being able to say, Oh, yeah, we can trust this and we can start letting go. And then instead of the past having so much activation because you're bookmarking these new experiences that are safe, it can finally have a you can finally put a period on your past and doesn't have to sit there with activation running around as you're trying to muscle through life.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And it's totally recognizable now still, but it's not your normal, like you can see it, like you can when you come across somebody who's familiar in that way because they're like that person that you know, because they have tendencies that are very similar, you can see it so much quicker. Yeah, but it doesn't trigger you. You get to just sit in your piece and just go, okay, that's not a safe person. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

And I'm stay grounded. So and also it's not like you're erasing the memories either, it's just you're unwinding and eventually healing so there's no activation in the memories. The memories aren't doing this in the nervous system, so they can so this nervous system can finally go, Okay, that's you know, that's something that happened to me, but it now isn't something that I have to keep reliving in this in this way that damages the nervous system and the safety. I can just be like, Yep, that happened, and I can fully be present.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah. And when you're in that safe relationship and you get to be relaxed and you get to just trust and you get to like fully like for me, when I'm when I'm kind of wound up and my husband sees it, he'll just put his arms around me. Yeah. And instantly everything washes away because I feel safe in that moment with him. Yeah. Because we've created that with each other. Yeah. And it's one of the most beautiful experiences for me because I sometimes when you've been in that abuse, you wonder if you'll ever be able to feel safe and peace again. And then when you find that, you don't take it for granted because you know what it feels like not to have it.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So it's almost like that's beautifully said, and that speaks to the power of a healthy attachment bond attachment bond rather than an insecure and a secure attachment bond rather than an insecure one, is that amidst the stresses of life, the relationship becomes a boon, like a a like a lighthouse, a safe place. And even just the the touch of a loving partner that feels safe and that you trust can just melt away the stress and like, oh okay, I can crash into you and you can hold that space for me. It's like the wings are around me and and I can let my nervous system be compressed. And when you have those kind of and ultimately that's what you hope every relationship can be, right? Or these healthy spaces where people can really be there for each other and be each other's safe, yeah, safe place. And that's what and that's what I think is so beautiful about what you said, because that attachment bond is meant to be an anchor amidst stresses, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yeah. And I just want I just want everyone to know, like, no matter what, like you can get to that place, and sometimes you have to find that place just within yourself until you find some a partner that is ready for that or is capable of that. But finding that within yourself is is very powerful too, because then you get to realize, like, no, I'm stronger than I thought. I can I can manage this situation even like because even if he's not around, I can I can figure out how to regulate myself. It's just when he's there, it's just nice that I can just be like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Well, it's that's that's the anchor, right? Yeah, you know, hopefully we build a lot of skills where we can regulate ourselves, but there's something to, and that's why it the our kids hopefully can do that to us. They can crash into us when they're having rough times and we can wrap our arms around them and say, Hey, you're loved, you're cared for, you're safe, and and hey, maybe the stressor isn't going away tomorrow, but I got you, right? And that's what partnered relationships that are very healthy do too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

So let's talk a little bit about say somebody's just freshly out of a relationship. What are some little things that they can do daily or more often if they need to that can help them just kind of ground in that moment if they're feeling a little chaos?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Do you mean like out of a relationship that's been abused? Yes, okay. You know, I think first and foremost, it's where are their safe places? Like a lot of people can like, okay, this place in my home, my room, whatever is my safe place, but now who are my safe people? And because oftentimes they've just had so much lack of safety with the people or the person. And so who are my new safe people? And that's where community and resources, if you're gonna heal a nervous system, you have to be able to have resources. That resourcing is what creates the safety. And you can resource in your home by yourself, but we also don't heal in isolation. So, in from abuse, we have a tendency to just want to cave for a while. But it's really important to connect to safe, healthy community. And that doesn't mean like, well, I'm gonna go out to the football game and I'll heal there. But it's more like, okay, who can who are my supports? You know, if someone has a dog, it's like, okay, you know, I'm gonna make sure once a week to go outside and grab my dog and just pet him for an hour, you know, and create these rituals where my nervous system can have peace, where I can unwind and unravel, and I can let myself cry. I can process and digest my emotions when I need to, I can start to to feel okay again, you know, and then it's building these little rituals of self-care because oftentimes in abusive situations components of self-care have gone out the window. It's eggshells and like damage control and oh shit dinner on the table. Yeah, it's just it's constant like running around, sometimes like with a chicken cut off or or imploding quietly behind the scenes so that you don't disrupt the person and make them at again or whatever. So it's it's it's day by day, brick by brick, creating these rituals that help create routine and and and scaffolding. Yeah. Right. And so it's if you're not showering, try and take it to check, try and take a shower once a week, and you know, from once a week, try and take one two times a week. It's like get on a shaker plate, you know, uh unwind the nervous system, try and go for a walk in the sun. I always tell people, like, you know, I understand why you're caving, like this was really intense and you were healing some wounds, like it feels raw to get out and go be exposed. So in these little snippeted times, you know, create some some to your window of tolerance, yeah, some spaces where you can do things. Yeah, you know, and they have to be oriented around self-care.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

It's yeah, I walking is a big one for me. Like if I've been really wound up and I go for a walk, it's it's it's like I leave it out there. Like I I every step kind of like leaves another.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

It's designed to do that. Yeah. That's why we get so much out of exercise and we create endorphins and those kinds of things, is but movement is if we're rusting or we're getting tar all over us, movement starts to kind of break that up. Yeah. Right. And so if I and so sometimes it's not even like get out of the house, it's just get out of your room, like go downstairs, you know. Just get change your location. Try and go outside. Yeah, get some fair share. Yeah. So those those tiny, those little rituals, connecting back to self-care, really finding safe people. You want to eventually heal and repair from a dad, like from the damage that comes from an abusive relationship, you need to connect to safe, healthy people. And some of those resources are out in the community. Like your app is very resourceful. Like people being able to, I mean, if someone could have 24 access to me, like my clients, they would love it, right? But there's just no way. Yeah. You know, I would never sleep. I wouldn't be here anymore. Yeah. So the thing about that tool is at 1 a.m. when they're having a hard time sleeping, they can jump on and be like, I need I need some help. Tell me I'm not crazy. This, this, and this. Here's what I'm thinking. You know, I'm I'm so stupid, or you know, it's you know, because the e it's a reverberation. Sometimes you're circ circling through as you're unwinding all this junk, this past debris that the tr that the trauma created.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And you're actually trying to see is there anything good in here still.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yes. So so tools like that too are just like help me, you know, help me, help me think about this differently. Help me think about this in a way that makes more sense or helps ground me. You know, those the beautiful thing about those AI tools is that they are available 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, and I I I like it though, because Irene speaks in a way that it feels like a trusted, safe friend. Yeah. Like so, when when you are just online chatting with her, she feels like she's there for you. Yeah. So like I'm I don't think that AI is ever going to replace people or ever should, because I think that there's something so powerful about connecting with real life humans that's that nothing could ever take that place. Yeah. But having access to something that can help you in a time of crisis or whatever, or when you're just in your head about something to help you like like chatting with a friend that maybe like you're not calling your friend at one o'clock in the morning when you're spinning.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

I mean, you could try, but what if they don't answer and you're spinning, and then you can jump on this, you know, and and I think those tools are valuable for that because you know, it's those, it's that's resourcing safety. That's that's how you resource is like I'm having a an issue, like I'm I'm struggling, things are peeling apart, I'm splintering, and now I've got I've got something that's helped me reground. And that's why it's the that scaffolding. And and by the way, that scaffolding has been completely stripped away. When someone leaves an abusive situation, there's they're just at their lowest of lows. They don't think well about themselves, they don't have good self-esteem, you know. In fact, the courage it took to even leave the relationship was it the the way that they had to m amount enough courage to do that amidst this broken self-esteem is a huge feat.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Well, and it takes every ounce of you to do that sometimes too. So that's it. So you're left like empty, broken, and then you just feel like I don't know what to do now. I've been controlled for so long, now I'm in charge and I don't even know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

And overwhelmed, like I take care of myself. Or, you know, how do I make sure I have food for my kids? Like it's and that's why places like the Dove Center and and and resourcing community is helpful too, because it's like here you're not alone. Like you have people that will champion and and help you get on your feet.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, and they're they're there's they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

You just have to know where to look. Even some of the churches here have like Solomon's Porch has a I'm pretty sure it's weekly, I don't want to say this, but I've sent some of my clients there that they just gave a box of food out. Like, hey, you need some food? Like, come see us, we'll make sure that you have some essentials. I know Switchpoint does similar things, but you know, there's there's a lot of places here in town that are like we are holding space for helping. Yeah, you know, without it having to be an exchange. Yeah, you know, it's like we just want to help, it's charitable. Like, how can we help? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Let's talk a little bit about how to help our adult children who grew up in an abusive home navigate uh maybe them trying to manage some of things that might have happened to some of the abuse that might have happened to them. Like, what are some things that we can do to help our children, adult or young, manage this abuse and heal from this abuse as parents?

SPEAKER_01 21:42

It's it with with children and with their kids, you know, if they're minors, if they're little, if they're teenagers, but if they're young adults, you know, so those are all developmentally different places. And and so to the degree that they have their own ability to articulate here's what happened to me, this is when my sense of safety was ruptured. And it's it's painful on all sides because if you didn't know about it, well if you did know about it, know about it but you couldn't stop it, there's there's stuff there. If you didn't know about it and they then disclose it later, it's just a it's a deep suffering for a especially a mother like a parent to just go, You have been hurt and I and I couldn't stop it. You know? I couldn't protect you. Yeah. So first and foremost, there's an invitation to heal. Every single kid that's been exposed to abuse, a healthy parent's gonna say, you know, here's the invitation to do healing. Does that look like therapy for you? What does it look like? What are what are because some people will refuse therapy? Will you listen to this? Will you watch this? Will you go here? Will you try this? You know, I call it throwing spaghetti at the wall, especially with kids and teenagers, because sometimes they're very, they're very resistant. Like, no, no, I don't need that. But if they're kind of so that's if if that's if you're fishing and you're kind of like, I know you've been exposed to trauma, I want you to get help, and you're giving the invitation. If you've given the invitation and the kids are finally coming into whatever age and are saying, I'm ready to do some work, this trauma is catching up with me and it's interrupting my ability to do my life, especially if they're young adults or adults, and and that trauma is impeding their ability to fully function in their adult lives, is to say, okay, where's your window of tolerance? You know, how workable is and and and a therapist can gauge that, and it's great if they're already in therapy, but if the window of tolerance is there, because you can only really do good trauma work if the window of tolerance is there. If the window of tolerance closes, then you become any kind of work to on the trauma becomes injurious. Right? So you have to really help help teach a kid to manage and attune to their window of tolerance. Oftentimes, when people start feeling safer, the the traumas start to kind of bubble up and go, hey, I have the I have the bandwidth to work on this. But then sometimes when things are going well, it's like let's keep stabilizing, let's keep grounding, let's keep just forging forward in life, and then when we have more of a bandwidth to and better coping mechanisms to man to work on this stuff, then let's get in and do the work, right? So create the invitation. If they're coming to you and saying, I have trauma and I need to work on it, then it's throwing the spaghetti at the wall. How can I help you? Like, and that is this therapy working? Do we need to try something different? Do we need to try neurofeedback? You know, do you need somatic healing? You know, I've had people come find me because they've been in talk therapy and it's helped to a point, and then they need to somatically heal what's been wired into their nervous system. Right. So it's we're all planting seeds for the greater good, right? To hopefully help a system heal. And being a safe place, because one of the things that especially adult kids, as as everyone gets older, you know, sometimes people like I did the best I could with what I had. And that's tough when you're trying to describe trauma, and they are doing the best, but it's more like we were all just exposed and under a lot of duress. And now that we all have our breath and we are in safer spaces, like I can be a a safe place for you to unpack some of the stuff. And that's one of the things you always want to tell your kids is like, you know, put me in the game. Like, I am here, and even if it's hard to hear, I want to be there for you. And I can't, I'm I'm not gonna do do the therapy for you, but I'm gonna I always tell my boys, I have four boys, and I have a coup a couple of teenagers right now, a 17-year-old and well, he's gonna be 18 and an almost 20-year-old. And I tell him, I'm like, you know, in the toughest times of your life, you know, don't bench me. Yeah. I want to be there, I want to help you. And and and with a parent too, kids don't want to access your wisdom oftentimes until they know you care, or they're coming to you and asking for it. We can lecture our kids all day long or try and help them or throw a bunch of different resources at them. Oftentimes, if they're asking for it, then they have more receptivity. Yeah. So so then there's the invitation. So we are you wanting me to just hear you and hold space for you? Or do you want me to brain help you brainstorm some things that we can do, you know, to help you? And let them be like, I just need you to listen to me. I just need to put this somewhere. I just need to get it out. And then as you create safe spaces for them to unpack and unwind, then it's like, can you please get some help? Like, can you please help me like find some help? And then we get as parents, we get to task, you know. But it's it's such a personal journey for them too, especially if they're adult kids, because they have to figure out amidst their lives and how they're operating in their lives, what it means for them to have their window of tolerance to do their trauma work when and where they're able to. And then commit to doing it because the system is designed to heal. Yeah. Just any cut we get can heal. Yeah. Any emotional wound, even if it's been severe, can heal if if we do the work to let the nervous system know what wasn't safe then is safe today.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, and even though you were raised your whole life in a chaotic situation, you can still come back to the peace that you're meant to be in.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Mm-hmm. And if it's developmental trauma, like if these are traumas that happened since they were little, like zero to seven, seven to fourteen, you know, there's some deeper work to do because their nervous system truly was oriented around trauma. And so there's a lot to unpack and unwind there. And it never has to take as long as they were exposed to trauma, but there is that it does it does take some more time. You know, and so to help help them frame like healthy realistic expectations. Because sometimes it's like, I just want to be over this. Like people it's only been two weeks since you started doing your trauma work, you know. And so it's gonna take some time and let let your nervous system pace it, not what your brain is saying.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Because they don't always know what it feels like to have their nervous system regulated properly to where they get to choose how they respond to a situation. If you've been in uh that traumatic situation for long enough, that's especially kids, because like they might not ever remember feeling peace, content, like happiness in a certain situation, all they know is chaos.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

So it can happen overnight because you have to you almost have to teach yourself that because it's not a relearning because you don't maybe you never even learned how to be regulated in the first place, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And this happened to all of us, and I'm running point on this family system. So if you need to put something somewhere, you know, I'm here, right? That's the invitation, is is now that we all have a space to have our voice and to say things and we can talk about it, like I'm here. And that's huge for kids. Like you don't just have to use it, but if they if they know and trust that they can, yeah, and then also it creates the invitation to to resource, right? And and find other ways to help, because they're coming to you, you know, they're asking, they're saying, Hey, you're my person that I can go to to help help me. And so I need some help. And if it's in our bandwidth to do, we'll help them. But if it if we need a higher level of care, we need professionals, then we say, Hey, I'm here. Thank you for telling me, and now let's get you connected to this resource.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

And parents are incredible at that most time, though. Yeah. And when it's our babies, if we're having healthy relationships, we'll do a lot. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do anything. We'll be like, I'll throw a hundred, you know, different. If I throw too many at you, I mean, okay, let's back off. Let's pull back some of these suggestions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah, but but like ultimately, especially as a parent who's started to do their own healing and is feeling more grounded in themselves and more secure in their ability to regulate, then you feel like, okay, I know enough to help you get there too. Yeah. But let's use a professional because that's how I was able to get as far as I've come.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

And even I think sharing your personal experience with healing with them so that they feel like, okay, she's she was just as chaotic as I am right now. So she kind of understands the path that my that I'm on. And maybe she can't help me fully get there, but she can kind of give me this the tools, this the step-by-step process that she used, or the therapist option that, you know, that helped her to be able to get there.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah. And I think it's important too to hold space for all of the emotions. Because sometimes it's tough. Like parents are dealing with their own shame for for exposing, you know, staying in things sometimes so long and exposing their kids to so much trauma. And and kids gotta be able to speak about that, like even if sometimes they're mad. Like, why didn't you leave sooner? You know, what kept you in there? And you can say I, you know, I I wish I hadn't, right? And but at the same time, it's like I can understand why you're upset. I can understand as I hear the impact that this has had on you, why some of that, you know, sounds so upsetting to you, is is that without it like snowing you in shame too, you know. I remember when my son told me much later when he could articulate it better. So I got divorced when I when he was seven and his older brother was nine. And our divorce was not hard. It was very amicable to this day. He's my ex-husband is a good friend. He's great with the the we were really good co-parents. But that last year there was just so much more conflict. And we thought we were being so savvy and going downstairs and and hiding it from the God later. My son told me he was like, I would sit at the stairs and I would listen to you guys, and sometimes you would talk about me, and I thought it was my fault. And I thought to myself, like, God, why don't you tell me that you were just sitting there sponging all this as a seven-year-old and internalizing it, and and then your nervous system's all all all in in knots, and he's just like, You guys were both overwhelmed. I didn't want to burden you. And I was like, burden me, you know. And so I had to, instead of trying to be like, well, you know, and he's like, and then it didn't seem like that was fair, and this was fair, and he doesn't have all the context, he doesn't you know the ins and outs. And I just instead of trying to justify or explain to him, you know, age-appropriate explanations, especially in divorces or those kind of you know, situations when you're leaving a relationship are important because you can overexpose a kid and then they it just isn't helpful. But just holding space for his feelings, I was like, I can see why that really bothered you, or I can see why you internalized all of that, or I can see why you thought that was like I was being unfair to dad, you know, and without being like, but I wasn't being unfair to dad, right? It was like I can totally see in your little seven-year-old brain why you were having all of this experience, and I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that you had to weather that alone. And and those are reparative moments for kids because in and they can be like, Oh, it's not your fault, you didn't know. And I was like, Yeah, but it's okay for me to like hold space and and apologize and repair, like, you know, we we we we had no idea how much conflict we were exposing you to, and it's it's a good check for us. Yeah, you know, and sometimes kids don't need you to justify and explain, they just need you to hold space for the feelings, and then when you do that, you've created this bedrock of trust and they'll come to you with more things.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

And I think apologizing is huge. I think it's good. It's something that was modeled to me, it's something I modeled to my children, but I have I know p people who are don't apologize, and I'm like, how do you how do you get through life without apologizing?

SPEAKER_01 32:46

That's fundamental to teaching a kid good emotional regulation skills and how relationships operate. Because nobody's perfect in relationships. You even mean with all the skills I have, sometimes I have to go back to even with my five-year-old the other day. I was like, I was a loud mom. And you sure didn't listen the 10 times I was nice, but that was still too much for your little ears. Yeah. And so I had to do some repair work. And that's one of the things that my sons know, and I would encourage any parent to say these to their kids, is you know, I can't promise that I won't create ruptures or be a part of ruptures, but you better better believe that I will model good repair work. Yeah. And that repair work is what teaches them how to have healthy relationships where conflict's inevitable, how you manage it and then get to the other side of it is how you grow emotional intelligence with your babies.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

So yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's good. Well, thank you so much for the channel. You're welcome, thanks for having me today. Like I I we'll have you back and I'll in I'm I have some stuff that I really want to talk to you about. So next time we have you guys let me know. I'll be here. Thank you, Jenny, and as always, thank you for listening to the podcast. And leave a comment below if there's something that you'd like to share with us about something you experienced or something that you've learned. We really just want to be here to as a help and a support for you. As always, listen to the podcast, subscribe, and have a blessed day.