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Angela Brown
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Angela Brown wasn't supposed to survive her second birthday. Diagnosed with cystic fibrosis at 18 months, she and her twin sister were sent home so their parents could "enjoy them" for six months. She's 49 now, a mother of eight and a grandmother and that miracle is only the first thing that happened to her.
At seven, she was raped by a foster child living in her home, and told he'd kill her family if she spoke. She carried it silently for eight and a half years. She carried depression for more than thirty. She learned to mask so well that the people at church had no idea, and her own twin sister never knew about the suicidal thoughts.
In this conversation, Angela walks through all of it: the number that appeared at a gas pump when she was ready to drive away from her life, the night in 2015 when the voice in her head changed from I to you, and the prayer she yelled out loud with her kids in the next room after which, she says, the depression never came back.
She also talks about what came after rock bottom, which is the part nobody warns you about: relearning how to fight fair with her husband after ten years of marriage, the mirror exercise she started only to prove the teacher wrong, the heart rocks, losing their first grandbaby, and the book she finished in the middle of the worst grief of her life.
⚠️ Content note: This episode includes discussion of child sexual abuse, depression, suicidal ideation, and infant loss. Please listen with care. If you're struggling, you don't have to do it alone in the US, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, 24/7.
00:00 Crying Out to God
00:40 Meet Angela’s Story
01:01 Birth and Early Trauma
02:36 Cystic Fibrosis Diagnosis
05:22 Holistic Healing Diet
09:09 Growing Up Different
11:20 Marriage and Vegan Turnaround
14:28 Back to Strict Health
19:34 Childhood Assault Revealed
28:12 Faith Shame and Worth
31:33 Motherhood Trauma Trigger
33:46 Patterns and Trauma Cycles
34:24 Rapist Reappears
35:06 Trauma Stays Stored
36:29 Marriage Meets Unhealed
38:15 Postpartum Breaking Point
39:26 Gas Pump Sign
43:14 Masking Depression
44:12 Rock Bottom Deliverance
47:45 Emotions Without Rumination
49:34 Anger After Healing
51:16 Inside Job Lessons
55:08 Marriage Communication Shift
59:15 Mindset Training Breakthrough
01:04:09 Skeptic To Affirmations
01:05:09 Cheat Day Spiral
01:06:44 Testing Affirmations
01:08:37 Mirror Breakthrough
01:09:57 Rewiring Beliefs
01:13:00 Parenting With Consequences
01:17:11 Rock Bottom Launchpad
01:19:13 Faith And Healing Work
01:20:25 Heart Rock Signs
01:24:39 Stillbirth And Surrender
01:28:56 Trusting Timing
01:32:19 Gods Bigger Perspective
01:33:27 Perfect Timing Rescue
01:34:38 Finding Faith Your Way
01:35:44 Giving Teens Agency
01:39:43 Healing Parent Child Bonds
01:44:19 Signs Tender Mercies
01:46:37 Writing You Are Made To Heal
01:52:00 Sharing Stories To Heal
01:55:26 Foot Zoning Whole Person Healing
01:57:40 Where To Find Angela
01:58:55 Hope After Hard Days
FIND ANGELA
📺 YouTube: Made to Heal with Angela Brown
📖 Book: You Are Made to Heal Spiritually, Emotionally, Mentally, and Physically (Amazon)
🦶 Sunny Souls Foot Zoning
IRENE CARES
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I was so sad and angry at the same time. I remember crying and yelling out to God, going, God, there is no way you know what I've been through. I'm a spat on your seashore. There's no way you know what I'm going through right now. Are you even there? Are you listening? Like, how do I know you're even there? And I get to the gas station. The number's 2856. Came in my mind. And then the thing stops on its own. There's no way I just thought of that number on my own. That number was put in my head for a reason.
SPEAKER_00Well, welcome to the podcast today, Angela. We're so happy to have you. And we're going to start at the very beginning. We're going to start with who you are today and what childhood was like.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So starting from the beginning, let's start with childhood. I was just going to say, I'm going to have to go all the way back to birth.
SPEAKER_00Let's go to birth then. That's a great place to start.
SPEAKER_02So, you know, I didn't know it until I learned in my 40s, but in my birth experience, it was really hard because my mom and dad knew they were expecting twins. And they were told, one's a boy and one's a girl. And so out I came, both girls, right? And I was the boy. And they had Jeff and Jill picked out. And so I didn't come out Jeff. And I know, like, I didn't realize that until my late 30s, my early 40s, that oh, I was a huge fat disappointment. But you pick up on these emotions before you even know what's really going on. Like, so I I'm a firm believer in that. So um I but when I was born, I fought for my life I had a hernia, and so I had to have surgery like a month after I was born, and I didn't want to come out. And I came out with black and brew blue, brew, black and blue bruises all over my body, and they had to use forceps, and I really did not want to come out. And I didn't really think of it. My mom told us that story when I was 40, and then I'm like, oh, that's why. Because I had done a hypnosis class and they were like, Hey, go back to your birth. I want you to tell us how you're feeling how what your emotions are. You're not born yet, you're still in your mom's stomach, but your today is your birthday. And how do you feel? And I'm like, like, I don't know what I was feeling, right? Like, who knows what they're feeling. But they're like, just relax your mind, something will come, and I promise this activity always works. And that's when I just started sobbing. And I was like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to come. Life is gonna be really hard, and I I'm just in like this big disappointment already, right? And so that's kind of how I started into this world. And then on top of that, we were my twin and I were born with cystic fibrosis, which is um way back then was way life threatening. I don't know about it today. I'm not familiar with it as much, but um they didn't diagnose us until we were 18 months, and the first year to year and a half, they kept taking taking us to the doctors and the same notes each time, failure to thrive were was on the notes. And so my parents didn't know, and finally they their last doctor visit, they're like, Look, uh, you want to put more antibiotics in them and they're just getting sicker. Like, we we gotta have something. What what's what's going on? We gotta figure this out. And they're like, Oh, let's have you go see the specialist. And so they sent us to the specialist, and he diagnosed us with cystic fibrosis. And at that time, he's like, They're 18 months. Uh, they have I'll be I'll be like surprised if they make it to their second birthday. Go home and enjoy them for six months. For six months.
SPEAKER_00And my So hold on, just for a second. Explain real quick what cystic fibrosis is for people who might not know.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so cystic fibrosis is just this um disease of the lungs. I I just dealt with it in my early, early years. I just remember like as a young child, so the cystic fibrosis people create more mucus than the average person. And they're susceptible to like sore throats and coughs. And if we were little and we would walk past someone smoking a cigarette on the street, we'd we'd have bronchitis or such bad reaction for two weeks, it would put us in bed sick for two weeks just from walking past someone smoking a cigarette. So our lungs were very much in um jeopardy with very vulnerable, very vulnerable. And so, and I remember they had to pound on our chest, front and back, just to loosen it up to get it up. And so, yeah, not not fun. No, but but just yeah, very um life-threatening. And so he said, Hey, but if they make it past their fifth birthday, which I doubt, but that that could be a possibility. And he's like, if they make it to their teens, then they probably um their life isn't gonna look normal like all the other kids, they're gonna be in and out of the hospital half their lives. And um, and then they were saying, like, okay, if there, you know, there have been people that have survived their the latest, um, yeah, the lifespan is like early 20s, is about the longest they live. And so it's not recommended that they get married and have kids. Um back then, they were saying kids were the boys were sterile with CF, and not recommended for a woman, right, that to later on have kids because she's not gonna live much longer. And so yeah, kind of they were just like, wow, it was just a lot for them. And my parents didn't have insurance at the time. And so they're like, there's gotta be a different way. And so people of faith, they were just like praying, going, What what do we do? This is like a blow. And um this guy that my dad worked with like, hey, you know, I can see that you're struggling, what's going on? He's like, Well, my my girls, we we got some really devastating news, and I they're not supposed to live for another maybe six months. I don't know, maybe. And the guy's like, Hey, I I know of a lady, she's she's kind of a holistic, herbal, you know, person, but you know, I think she might be able to help you. And my parents were like, We'll do whatever it takes. Like, sure, we'll go talk to her. Of course, for your babies. Exactly. They're like, uh, yeah, let's look at a plan for me. And so this lady, they met with this lady and she's like, I can help you girls. I can help, I can help you to where they probably won't have the symptoms that they have been having. And my parents are like, Okay, well, yeah, whatever's it, we'll we'll try anything. And so she was like, she listed off five things. She's like, keep them off of food coloring, keep them off of um, and dyes, and then uh white flour and white rice. And then another one was keep them off of red meat, keep them off of dairy, and keep them off of sugar. And so my parents are like, okay, that that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00For your whole life or until your body heals, or what is it?
SPEAKER_02You know what? I think she was just saying for their whole life. This is what they need. Well, I have found I have found it is for my whole life because I've been back and forth. Like, I've played a little. I have played a little. And and I'm like, okay, this is what I need to do. But um, yeah, so pretty much she was just like, you have to do that. And then she put them on, she she told them all sorts of stuff to put us on, and it was horrendous. We didn't love it, but my parents were good people and they did it. And I told my husband all the time, I'm like, I am so grateful. As hard as my upbringing was, I feel like for me, I am so grateful I was born in the house I was born in. Because if I was born in your household, let's say I would have been dead at two. Yeah, you know, I mean, your dad was a smoker, and you know, just they, you know, certain people aren't willing to go to certain measures for certain things, and maybe they would have. Maybe if they got that bad news, maybe that what that's what would have done for them.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you were given like they were given what would be considered obscure information, you know, not like mainstream information, which is very different too. Like if they didn't find that out, you probably wouldn't have made it, even if they did it their best and as much as possible in whatever the doctor said, who knows?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. I I truly feel like my life is a miracle. So for sure. So um, yeah, just he um so they did. They went home, they cleaned out their cupboards, they got rid of everything, and um, all they had left was a loaf of bread and a jar of pickles, and the pickles had food coloring in it, and so did the bread a little bit. But they're like, Okay, this is all we got to work with right now. They gave it to their neighbors and um family, and everybody just thought they were nuts. And so um, yeah, that's what it took. They just so when I met my husband um later on in life, I'm like, he would go and say, Oh, you want to buy it? And I'm like, Yeah, no, it's okay. No, no, have it, it's good. And I'm like, I don't think you understand. I've had like red meat in my lifetime under a dozen times. Like, it's just I haven't had it a lot. So um, but yeah, that's we had meat for good reason. For good reason. We had meat once a week. So Sunday was our meat night. We would get to have fish, chicken, or turkey was what we had with our meal. But throughout the week, it was just baked potatoes, salad, spaghetti, salad, no meat. Um so it was just lots of salads. Uh, I think we had, especially if it was summertime, we had two salads in the day. And yeah, so it's just they were really, really strict. And then we hit our, you know, you know, I remember going to school, you have these grade school teachers, and we they were so so strict with us. They're like, we'd have to ask, does it have sugar in it? Okay, then we can't have it. So the teachers knew, like, oh, sorry, you can't have it, it has sugar. And so that was kind of hard. Like, I you feel different as a kid already, and then to just not just make you feel set apart, like publicly almost like, oh, don't give any to Angela, she can't have it. Yeah, you guys are all good. Yeah, so you just take it as a weird, funny message. But um, and then we hit our middle school years, and I I say our all the time, and I tell people, I promise I don't have multiple personalities.
SPEAKER_00I I grew up with a twin, and so it's just our all the time. I mean, it kind of is a multiple personality because you feel like the same person sometimes and different people other times.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. So um, but I so yeah, we went to birthday parties and we ate the cake, we ate the ice cream and we had the pizza and we went what we're like, oh my gosh, like we've been missing out. Like so we kind of went hog wild and we'd go babysitting and we could pay for our own food to school lunches, and um yeah, it was just and so that's when and so I'm grateful that my parents were so so strict because I was able to be healthy, get on a healthier end. I mean, the sickness got less and less each year that passed by, it would just get less and less. And so yeah.
SPEAKER_00So in middle school, when you did indulge in all that stuff, did you notice a difference afterwards?
SPEAKER_02Um not right away. We were so worried about staying, like we fit in with friends and you know, we're caring about all that, right? Because that's who you live for is your peers.
SPEAKER_00Of course. At that age, that's all about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I I don't think I really even noticed. In fact, it didn't even hit me until my first pregnancy. Um, well, actually, backtrack two weeks in high school. In high school, I got so sick that I just begged God. I'm like, please just let me die. I'm just so sick. And I just felt like I was at death's door, like energy-wise, just everything just was feeling terrible. And so obviously that wasn't in my cards. And so um, my first pregnancy is when I got married, I ate my husband's family's diet. Everybody was just on the standard American diet. So I'm like, well, this is what I'll do. So I ate how his family ate, and then I got pregnant within two years, um, second year of marriage. I got pregnant in the last six weeks. I was coughing up blood and I was so sick. And um, I was just like, you know, and this is funny because I told my husband before we got married, I said, Look, I've always wanted to be a mom. I I have always wanted a lot of kids, so I want six to eight kids. If this is a deal breaker, now's the time to run and get out. And I think he was so giving you an out. Yeah, yeah, I'm giving you your out. And he was so Twitter painted, he was like, Oh no, I come from a small family. That sounds good. Okay, yeah, I'd like a big family. And I'm like, okay, glad we got that established. I can keep dating you. And so anyway, then we had our first, and I got the blood, and I was just like, I don't want to be this mom that's sick in bed all the time. Like, there's gotta be a way. And um, then my parents introduced me to this guy. They're like, hey, come listen to him. A guy by the name of Tom Rogers, he would travel the whole country. Um, he used to be a rancher and big into the industry, and he was like, he was really promoting vegan, being vegan and getting off of all animal products.
SPEAKER_01And and he started as a rancher.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, as a rancher, yeah. He had his own story and he was at Deathstore anyway, quite the interesting story. And so that's what grabbed my attention. I'm like, okay, I'm listening to somebody that's that's kind of been on both sides, and anyway, so it was kind of cool. And um, I told my husband, because this guy was like, Look, I know you uh your parents have told me about your history, and so I kind of know a little bit about you. You've got to commit to this lifestyle for two years. If you don't feel better in two years' time, go back to how you were eating. And I'm like, Oh, simple enough. I'm the type of person, if I commit to something, I'm I'm gonna do it. So so I committed and I was like, two years, okay. My husband ordered pizza for two weeks after I committed. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is the hardest thing. Like, I love who doesn't love cheese? Who doesn't love pizza? And so, but I'm like, no, I'm totally doing this, and so and he backed off, right? After while he's like, Oh dang, you're really serious about this. So he couldn't crazy. He's like, darn it, this is not this. So um, but that two years turned into 11 years. Never felt better in my whole entire life. And then my fifth pregnancy, I craved everything under the sun and I caved into every one of those cravings and felt good about it. And and I didn't, it was when that child, that fifth child was six or seven when God was like, Yeah, you're feeling crappy and it's just gonna get worse from here. You've got to do something about it. And getting that internal dialogue, it still took me another six to seven years to actually act on it. I'm a slow learner sometimes. And that's fair. I think we all have our hard things, you know. Yeah, yeah, to where so I'm just like, yeah, this kid was 14 to where I'm like, okay, I'll do it. And I did it for about five months just to get feeling better. And then felt great, really good. And then five months later, I'm like, okay, I can go back to how you're eating. And within a couple of years, God's like, it was actually Thanksgiving weekend. And I was like feeling so sick and just icky and heavy and just feeling the sore throats coming on. And I get this, you know, inner prompting, like, hey, yeah, you know what you need to do. And um, if you want to have this vibrant, healthy life that you've always wanted, then now's probably the time. And then I was like, okay, God, yeah, you're funny. Like, Christmas is around the corner. Let's just get the holidays over with. And he's like, uh, yeah, in case you haven't noticed, the holidays come yearly, and so do birthdays, and so do anniversaries, and so does everything else.
SPEAKER_00So and it's all sprinkled throughout the whole year. So there's never a good time.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, Oh, he's like, Yeah, there's no time like the now. And so I'm like, okay. So um that's when I just hold turkey to everything, and that was um the Thanksgiving of 24. And so now here we're at almost two years later, and I'm on a very strict lifestyle. I I don't promote it for everybody because it's not for everybody, but I feel amazing and it's what's keeping me. I just, you know, have been a grandma for a few years and I want to be able to get down on the floor with my grandbabies and have fun. So that's what's my drive. My drive is to, you know, be this healthy, vibrant old lady if I make it to an old lady.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you I mean, you want to, you don't want to just sit and watch the action happen. You want to be part of the action, even as you get older. Like I'm fortunate my mom's still like that. She's always taking care of herself, she's always worked out really well and eaten really well, and she's always been that involved active grandma. And oh, I want to be like my mom. Yeah. Because I I want to be that. I mean, she had 13 children and she's still managed to like always take care of herself and and I love that stay well. So I love that. It's very inspiring.
SPEAKER_02Because your mom and my mom are probably from the same generation, and I feel like many of those women in that generation did not know about self-care, or if they did, they just put that on the back burner through other people.
SPEAKER_00I have a core memory of going for a run with my mom while she was pregnant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I loved running, because I learned to love running when I played sports in high school.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And there was just this one day, it was cold and snowy outside. We were in Pleasant Grove and we went for a run together, like bundled up in layers, and we were running in the snow, and I remember she was pregnant, and I just remember going, Good job, mom. Because I was a teenager, and so it was like really cool to me that my mom could run while she was pregnant because nobody else's mom ran while they were pregnant. You know, it's like that same thing. Like, yeah, even when they were younger, they a lot of them didn't work out like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02My mom's always just tried to stay active and fit, and it's just it's funny you say that because I I ran a half marathon before my last pregnancy. And then, because my twin sister, she did a full marathon, and I always looked up to her going, Wow, you did a full marathon. Like, how in the world did you do that? I'm like, yeah, that's not for me. So, but I did a half marathon, and then um I it was like just before I got pregnant, I was like, you know what, I'll do another half marathon, half plus half, that's a full marathon. I can call that a marathon. It is, and so I was I was five and a half months pregnant when I ran my last half marathon, and that was such a cool feat. Like, yeah, how many people are out there with a little basketball running around? Yeah. And so that was really cool. I wasn't eating very healthy at that time.
SPEAKER_00But you still be able to do it.
SPEAKER_02I was exercising, uh, it really helped. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, that's good because that means that your lungs were healthy enough to be able to handle that, and that's that's the thing for you and your sister, because your sister has the same thing, right? Yeah. And that's the thing for you guys, is like it's almost like a bigger feat when you have cystic fibrosis and you can run a half or a full marathon. In my opinion.
SPEAKER_02It is true. It's true. In fact, we were we were born in Utah County in American Fork. And um my my my dad, especially, he just hated the cold. And he was like, he always wanted to come to St. George, like move to St. George. And so he talked to this holistic lady and he's like, So, um, would it help my daughter's health if we moved somewhere in a climate more warm? And she was like, and and get away from the smog. And she was like, Oh, absolutely, that would be the best, that would be great. And that's all my dad needed to hear. So before we were three, we were down here, and um, I'm forever grateful because I remember sitting outside. I don't even know if we had fencing behind our house or not, but we sit outside with our shirts off. He's like, it was important that we sat with our shirts off and got the sun, and then that we ran. He would make us run all the time, and so yeah, I feel like they did all they could do to strengthen our lungs.
SPEAKER_00What a blessing.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Okay, so now you are married and you have eight children.
SPEAKER_02Yes, but let's go back before the eight kids because there was a lot that happened between just that life-threatening illness that I dealt with my whole life.
SPEAKER_01Let's go there.
SPEAKER_02So, okay, let's go there. Um, at seven, I was raped. And um it was it was brutal. Like I some people that experience happens to them and they forget it, they black it out completely, and they think they were or whatever, or they just don't know, or they've been hypnotized and they're like, oh, that happened. Well, I remember to this day as if it happened yesterday. So it was just this it was a terrible experience. Um before before that happened though, I was this energetic life of the party child, right? I was like, look at me. I was a show-off, I was class clown. I was just I love to explore. I just was full of life and and just yeah, just was loving life. Well, when that happened, it did a number on me, right? Like it uh yeah, I didn't, I didn't even realize it as a kid what it had done. But my mom would always be like, Yeah, Angie, she was my shy one. She was just really quiet and reserved. And but when this had happened at the age of seven, after this this person had done it, and no, it wasn't a family member, but it was a foster uh child that was in our home that had done it to me. And my sister and I were very small to begin with. Like at the age of a year, we only weighed 15 pounds, and between a year and two years, we only gained two pounds in that one year. And my two-year-olds are my two-year-olds are 25 pounds. Yeah. And when we started kindergarten, we weighed 25 pounds. So we were just fighting for our life and just physically weak. And so this this foster brother was like three times my size. And um just what he had said afterwards, like forever ingrained in me at that point. He was like, if you tell anybody about this, I will kill you and I will kill your family. And I was like, whoa, like, okay, if he did that, then he's gonna do those two things. So I didn't say a word. And my parents, I think, were out of town at the time. So he had picked just the opportune time. And another thing that he had said was um when you reach the age of 19 or 20, um, if I'm not in touch with your family, then I'm at that point, I'm going to come find you and I'm gonna kidnap you and marry you. So that was just uh horrific on my mindset, right? Like just scary and hung heavy. And I I wasn't gonna tell anybody or um I wasn't gonna ever tell that secret. That was just gonna be something that I went to my grave with, I figured. Um my parents were watching a movie. Um it was Family Home Evening, right? We're watching a movie, and they were it was talking about um sexual abuse, and all of a sudden my body literally did this. Not just a little shaky and nervous, it my whole body convulsed, and everybody's sitting there looking around, like, what's her deal? And and I just started sobbing, and I told my parents, and um and yeah, it was just it was able, I that was I have now learned that is what um trauma is and what it looks like coming out if you've suppressed it and your nervous system does. Yeah, just the nervous system was shot. And um, I told my parents, and I don't know what they were going through at the time. They I know they were going through hard stuff financially, and they're always in, you know, and let me back up. A lot of people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, how did your parents not see the signs? If there's signs of sexual abuse, how did they not see it? Well, um, right after within three to 12 weeks, I don't know the window for sure, but within a real close window of time, my mom was in a major car accident. I was involved in that. It killed her best friend and almost um killed my older brother. And so that was traumatic in and of itself. And then within six weeks of the accident, she got pregnant again with another set of twins. And so there was just a lot of life thrown at them to where they didn't, you know, not that they weren't paying attention to the lot going on. A lot going on that to where they're not gonna go, oh, what happened to this child that was so energetic and l outgoing and class clown and just doing so good in school and and they weren't, they weren't, and then moving to different state. Uh we moved to a different state, different schools all the time, and so just teachers wouldn't have picked up on it either. So yeah. And then um not only that, let's see, we had that in the car accident, and then there was um just verbal physical abuse and different things that were going on um in and out of the home. And um yeah, just a lot, a lot of that a lot of trauma dumped on you all at once like within a year, you just had yeah, all of these things.
SPEAKER_00Because even if none of those like the abuse didn't happen, all that other stuff is still a lot of stuff, you know, and then add the abuse on top of that. And I I would assume life would feel really overwhelming. Yeah. For such a small person.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and at the time, I don't think my parents knew how to handle it because they're thinking, okay, it's eight and a half years later after this happened. My mom and I went for a walk. Okay, tell me exactly what happened, whatever. Um, they um they enrolled me into counseling and stuff, and I I get there, and uh I'm I'm not ashamed to admit it. I I was I mean my husband have this running joke. If we knew each other in high school, we would not be married. I was like this Molly Mormon Goody Tushu person, and he was just wild. We would have never connected had we known each other in high school. But like I'm sitting there in counseling going, I feel like a sore thumb. I'm they looked at me like, what in the heck are you doing here? Like, because I just I didn't feel like I belonged. And um, because you know, there's girls sitting there that were either pregnant or you know, pierced up and tattooed all over, and that was different for those days in the late 90s. That wasn't as common thing. And so I just yeah, I went to about two or three sessions, and then when the counselor, which wasn't even of my faith, which I think it's important if you're gonna work with someone, go with someone that has your same belief system. But she wanted me to reenact the whole thing, and that was not that that I just told my mom, I'm never going there again. I'm not. And so I I quit counseling at that point and kind of had a bad taste in my mouth for therapy and counseling from then on. Um, but I didn't realize I had um suffered from depression from a young age, like keeping that a secret. Um, I remember at a young age, um I feel like I'm a lot further in my healing journey. I was listening to my first video of my YouTube channel, and it's my why of why I created this page, and I'm sobbing all over the place because I talk about these heartbreaking experiences, and I am raw and real, and I am just bawling, but now it's been a few years since that. But I look back and um lost my train of thought.
SPEAKER_00You went back to the first video to watch yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because um I just wanted to get a feeling of like that was at the beginning of my real healing journey of just waking things up, and now I just look at it and it's like from a different perspective, and a lot of healing has taken place, and so I don't have as much of that. I feel like I've cleared a lot of emotions.
SPEAKER_00The beautiful thing about the recording though is that you can like physically look back at yourself who you were. Yes, because sometimes that's hard to do, like because it's such a process and you're like slowly overcoming and and becoming this other person. Yeah, you know, these experiences give us a new perspective. But to have that video, I think that's really like I think that's great that you did that because it really does get to show you and others how far you've come because you put in the work into the things to hear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it it was kind of cool. I didn't even think to do it until on the way down here. I just thought, oh, I just had this impression, like you should listen to that. And I was like, oh my gosh. But so yeah, my parents didn't know how to deal with it. There, I think in their mind they're like, okay, eight and a half late. Well, I don't even think they even contacted the person that did it, and they um stayed in contact with this person, and I think they do to this day. Um, and I have had a hard time with that for a long time, but I've just had to let go and let God, not my deal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So, but yeah, it's just it was heavy. So I dealt with depression. I remember my dad being in this Utah Mormon culture, LDS culture. I remember one night at 10 years old, my dad was like, Who all thinks they're going to heaven? And I was like, I had sweaty palms, and I just kind of started trembling inside. And um he was going around the table, and I was second to last or the last. And he got to me and I just stood up and said, I'm going to hell. And I went to my room and shut the door. And I literally, I just thought that's where I was at. And um and I, you know, looking back on my 10-year-old self, I mean, of course that's not the case. You know, I I I have this 11-year-old, and I'm like, oh, I so I have I've gone back to my 10-year-old self and just hugged her and said, You are so loved and you are doing better than you think you are. And I just know this church culture. I remember going to young women lessons and them chewing a piece of gum and sitting it right there on face on the table saying, you know, that's you after you've had sex and nobody wants you, and your your your value isn't like it was before it was chewed. And I was always just I hated those lessons. I was offended and I hated them, but I still went to church. So faithful, I went to church. And I remember like teaching young women's just a few years ago. I mean, a young woman were both assigned to teach on accident the same day, and it was about, you know, morality.
SPEAKER_01Morality.
SPEAKER_02And and I was like, okay, why would they have a young woman do this? This is hard and itself, but she had planned it. So I'm like, no, I'm gonna let you teach this lesson. But I'm like, will you please give me the first 15 minutes of the lesson? And she's like, oh yeah, yeah. I so I got to be real and raw and vulnerable. And I'm like, I just want you to know what it looked like when I got this lesson when I was your age, and how I would hope you get this lesson and I hope you take it internally, because I'm like, whether it's by choice that you're not moral or not, it does not decrease your value. One iota. You are just as valuable. I'm like, if everybody would look at the like, I just think back at the parable where all the priests are throwing the stones at the woman, cotton and adultery. If you know, and then he was just like, yeah, who who whoever's without sin casts the first stone, and then one by one they left. And so I just think, you know what? We are all just doing the best we can in our journey, and it's important to just know God loves you at all times and is there for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, as a parent, you can see that very differently than maybe those youth can, right? Because as a parent, you go, there is nothing that my children could do that I would be like, Oh, I loved you, but I don't anymore. Exactly. Because it's not like that. Yep, yeah. And we're we're earthly beings, so just imagine how God feels about us. It's I know it's greater than the way we feel about our children, which I can't fathom, but I I know that to be true. Yeah, so when I look at my own children, I see I I go, gosh, I just love you all so much, so much. And I always remind them there's nothing you could ever do that would change my love for you. Yeah. Would make me stop loving you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it's so true. Um, so yeah, uh it's funny you talk about that because I I was in bed one night just having, and this was before I hit rock bottom. I was in bed one night going, oh my gosh, what is my deal? Like, I feel like I'm this awesome mom from the time my baby newborn, oh, I could hold a newborn all day for six months straight and be in heaven. Like they are straight from heaven, and I could just, if that was just my job, you get to hold babies all day. I don't even pay for it. This is payment enough. Like, I will hold this baby. So I um I was so good from the ages of zero till about, and then I was like, what when is it? When is it that I just start letting go of my kids? And it hit me one night when I asked that question. Like, I'm a firm believer, if you put questions out there, whether universe, God, wherever, you ask a question, you wait for that answer because it's coming. Um, it doesn't come when we want sometimes, sometimes it takes a little longer, but for that time it came immediately and it was like seven. Seven is the age you you distance yourself, and I'm like, ah, and like that was the time of my rate, and that was the time that I had a disconnect, right? There was a disconnect. And so I had found myself, and I'm learning this when my oldest at the time was about 14, 15, and I acknowledged it to them. And I remember sobbing them. Like, I remember on the way home from church, you know, one day going, I came to this realization that like you guys hit the age of seven and eight, and I pushed you away. Like it wasn't anything you guys did. It's just me, for some reason, couldn't handle it, and I I distanced myself. You would think, okay, that was the conversation I had with my first three older kids. You think I I would be great now, right? Like I connect with my kids of all ages, but that awareness has been huge. Um, I still have a hard time connecting with seven and older with my kids, but um, but I have that awareness.
SPEAKER_00And do you think it was because you felt a disconnect? Not that it was your parents' fault, but when that happened to you, you felt a disconnect there. Yeah, and so subconsciously in your mind it's just what you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think we learned so much from how our parents raise us, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people get to take it or we get to go, oh, I didn't like that, so I'm gonna just leave that over there. Yeah, and if you don't deal with your emotions right then and there, if if we don't, then it kind of gets stored, and that's kind of where you're back at that, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, in trauma too, plays funny tricks too. Yes, it does. Like sometimes an age of a child brings up something that happened to you at that age.
SPEAKER_02It's it's true. In fact, um, I got this phone call. I was married for about six months, and I got this phone call from my mom, and she ran a store, and she was like, Yes, who's in my store? And I'm going down the family, like, Aunt So and so, Aunt So-and-so, no, no, Uncle So-and-so. And then she named the the guy that had raped me. And I was like, Mom, I gotta go. And I hurried and picked up the phone and I called my husband, and I'm like, Honey, you gotta come home. He's here, he's coming to take me and he's gonna take me away and kidnap me. And he was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? And I'm like, and and he knew, like I had told him everything. And when he found me, I was we lived in this little studio, and he found me, and I was in a fetal position at the corner back of our closet. Like he literally had to physically pull me out and say, You're safe, and it's me, I'm here. And but I went. I I did that here. I was 19 and a half, maybe 20 at the time, and I went right back to my seven-year-old childhood frame of mind. And so PTSD. PTSD. And so I'm a firm believer. If you don't heal stuff within when it's happening, you gotta eventually at some point or another. But it kind of keeps you stuck wherever you're at during that time.
SPEAKER_00And that's kind of like what's that book, The Body Never Forgets? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What is that book called? Um I haven't read it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Do you remember what it's called?
SPEAKER_00The body keep score? Yeah. Something like that. Something like that. But something about like if you never deal with big traumatic things, yes, they don't just go away. No, they sit there and then they come up random times. You have to make it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's oh, I've learned so much.
SPEAKER_00And depending on how traumatic it was for you or how unresolved it is for you, I think it can come up even like bigger and uglier. Yes. At times. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, they going back, my parents didn't quite know how to deal with it and handle it. And so I was just kind of left on my own. So I dealt with a lot of depression. My first suicidal thought came probably around 12, 13. Um, and it was like, it was, I'm not a good person, no one's gonna miss me. It was like this self-pity, kind of out of martyr's thoughts. But yeah, and then fast forward, I do get married. I'm in my unhealthy mind frame. My husband, I mean, this is my firm belief. When you meet your spouse and you have unhealed trauma or whatever, you're taking your unhealthy package and his unhealthy package coming together and creating another what dysfunctional family. So I I am not ashamed to say I came from a dysfunctional family, I raised a dysfunctional family. I'm still raising a dysfunctional family. I'm not doing things perfectly. And so, you know, that's where we were at when we started our family.
SPEAKER_00And yeah. All you can do is try and get better every day and do your best. And the hard thing is when you're that age, you don't realize how much you probably should work on. Yeah. It comes out as you have and are raising children. Oh, so and then it's like you have three little kids and you're very overstimulated and nobody's listening, and the house is a mess. Yes. And you feel like pulling your heart and crying and running away all at the same time, but you can't because you have to take care of these kids. And then somebody does something, and then it all comes out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did you have to deal with postpartum depression with any of your things? I did not, fortunately.
SPEAKER_02What a gift, what a gift. No, I so that's like depression, a whole new beast, right? It's on steroids. I say it's depression on steroids. So after having my first baby, it was like I didn't get depression after she was born. It was just this heavy, overwhelmed feeling like, oh my gosh, what did I do? I'm in charge of this human being for the next 18 years. And oh my gosh, it doesn't stop at 18 years, like for the rest of their life. I'm like, whoa, that's heavy. And I and I had to settle into that. But I never got that feeling with any of the other babies, right? It was just the first one. And so I'm grateful that it only happened with the first one. But it was the third baby that I had had that I was in postpartum depression, and I didn't even know postpartum depression was a thing then. So yeah, uh, it was scary. It was um, it was so bad that I was like, you know what? Um, I went to a meeting. I told my husband, I've got this church meeting, I'll be back. You've got all the kids, I'll be back in time to feed the baby. And I was in an ugly spot. And when I was by myself after the meeting, I was like, I am just gonna go fill my tank of gas and I'm gonna fill it and I'm gonna drive south as far as my car will take me and just lose myself in society.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02And I was so, so uh sad and angry at the same time. And I remember crying and yelling out to God, going, God, there is no way you know what I've been through. There's no way I'm a speck on your seashore of trillions and trillions and billions of sand particles. I'm like, I'm a speck. There's no way you know what I'm going through right now. Are you even there? Are you listening? Like, how do I know you're even there? And just really just yelling at them. And I get to the gas station and I start pumping pumping my gas or my car. And you know, those little clickers, you you push it in to where you're hands free. I'm sitting there, it's hands free, and I'm my gas is filling or my tank's filling up, and the numbers 2856 came in my mind, and I didn't think anything of it. And then the thing stopped on its own at 2856. And I was like, whoa. There's no way I just thought of that number on my own. That number was put in my head for a reason, and that was the ticket of giving me to go back home to face life, to go back and be a mom and try again. Try to be a better wife, a better mom. And yeah, that was that was my first. And then on top of that, my baby was born in 2001 in June, and then the 9-11 happened that September. That event, I mean, I don't want to take anything from those families and what the horror they had to go through. But when something big like that happens, it the whole world fills it. And that did not help my depression at that time. It even downspiraled till somebody noticed it and said, I think you need to get help. Um, because I had planned homeschool activities and I just wasn't showing up to them. And then this is when someone got real with me. He's like, Hey, um, can I ask a person the qu uh question? I said, sure. And she's like, Are you dealing with depression? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess I am. And she's like, Well, I think you need to go get help. Well, I never, I was full of pride at that point too. Never got the help. But I'm like, hey, some and I just remember out of the blue, like shortly after that conversation with her, I was just like, God, how do I get out of this funk? I am in such a funk. And he was like, quit focusing on yourself. Look out, like you're you're like looking down, whoa me, this is terrible. I'm you know, victim mode, right? Look outside yourself and see who needs help. There are a lot of people out there that need help. And as soon as I did that for a few weeks, it just put me in a whole different realm.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, your perspective shifts. Yep. Because you realize, especially when you're helping people who are in a really bad spot, you realize, like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02But even then it didn't sink in for me. Yeah, it was just an experience. So I look back on everything before my rock bottom as just an experience that I didn't quite compute.
SPEAKER_00Like it was just exactly because you had to have these little micro moments in order for the big moment to remember all the little things that were. We need you, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, it's true. Like, yeah, so I'm so grateful for all the little I call them tender mercies. I didn't know what they were before. I would call them miracles, but now I just God's tender mercies, every little thing that has happened up to that point.
SPEAKER_00Because he knows us so well, he knows those little drops that we need, and when we need them, 2856. When we need them, that and he knows how they're gonna get our attention. He knows that they will, yeah. But he's not gonna just do everything. Oh, there's like lessons that have to be learned throughout the process. So it might be like, well, where are you? Okay, 2856, you were there, yeah. Okay, you were there too, and you were there. Oh, you were always there.
SPEAKER_02I never, I know so yeah, since the 2856, I never denied his existence. I never could deny that he had a hand in exactly where I was at and the timing of things. That's when I think that was solidified for me. Like there at that point, God was saying there's no such thing as coincidences. Yeah, everything happens at the right timing, timings everything.
SPEAKER_00So you had depression for what, like 30 years?
SPEAKER_0230 plus years. So what let's get to that rock bottom.
SPEAKER_00I want to hear about that.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. So I and I'm not saying I was angry all the time. Like, people like I go to church every week. They're like, I had no idea. Like they would hear my story and they're like, I had no idea. You're just such a happy, positive person. And I'm like, oh yeah, like that's that's the thing with depression. It likes to cover up, really good at masking. Um, like only only my husband knew I had suicidal thoughts. My twin sister never knew, and my parents never knew. And I'm surprised your sister didn't know, actually. Not even my twin sister, yeah. Like, I think she was going through enough hard things in her own life um at that time that I don't know, I just never thought to talk to her about it, but my husband knew. Like, I I knew I could confide in him, and he knew. And um, so bless his heart. He worked with me on all sorts of levels. So the last I told you. Up to that point, all the suicidal thoughts were and and I didn't get them daily, right? It would be like so sporadic the hit and miss, and it was I'm not a good mom, I'm not a good wife. Look, nobody's gonna miss me. I just I just need to get just off myself and just hey, that'll make everybody's world go better. And the last suicidal thought was when my baby was about nine months old. I had had her the beginning of 2015, like literally the very beginning in January. And then at towards the end of the year, um I was I don't know what I was dealing with on a particular day. I was really stressed. Kids were watching a movie, and all of a sudden I get these suicidal thoughts. And I'm holding the baby, and it scared me. Like I'm getting these suicidal thoughts, and I've never had these type of suicidal thoughts before. It was, it went from the earlier ones from I, I, I to you. You are not a good mom. You are not a good wife. You need to end your life now. Like you are not, you're making things worse for everybody around you. You're just like, so my worth was just going down and down, and it scared me to death. So probably I I'm a loud talker, but I was like in a house full of people. My kids were there. Um, they were in the other room. So, like in a probably a quiet voice, you know, I raised my right arm to the square and I'm like, in the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave. And it just came stronger and stronger and stronger. And it got really scary. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So I'm like, this isn't going away. What do I do? And I'm like, well, I'm gonna keep repeating what I just said because I didn't listen. I didn't know what else to do. And by the third or fourth time, I'm you so it's getting a tiny bit louder each time. By the third or fourth time, my oldest comes in and she's like, uh, mom, are you good in here? And I'm like, okay, here's the deal. I can only tell you this. You're the oldest. Take the baby. Your mom's not going crazy. You're gonna hear me get loud though. And I know you guys are in the other room watching a movie, so just crank it up. And I am going to get loud, so just ignore me. And if the kids start saying, What's with mom? Just tell them, shh, watch the show. She's okay to just okay. So she was my she was my second mom at that point. Took the baby, and it got louder and louder. And I can't tell you how many times I said it, it was at least a dozen. Could have been 15, it could have been 20. I don't know. But the last time I said it, so are you familiar with chakras? Okay, so the solar plexus. Every time I said it, I was just feeling more added strength in my solar section, uh, plexus chakra. And the last time I said it, I was yelling it and it came from the gut. And it was like that, that command, like the last phrase in the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave. It was like a leave and came just from the gut and so strong. And from that moment on, I I have not had depression or suicidal thoughts since it's been a gift. I didn't think life was possible. I just thought before that point, 15 or in 2015, I just thought, well, this sucks. I have to deal with depression and suicidal thoughts. It's just been the lot that I've drawn in life and sucks for me. Okay, you know, we'll just live with it, deal with it. I had no idea that that I could choose a different path. Um, but the Christ in that moment, I truly believe rescued me. At that moment, I hit that rock bottom and found the rock. And from there it's been it hasn't been an easy journey. No, but it has it's been incredible. Oh, it's completely gone. Completely gone. Completely gone. No, when I say depression was completely gone and suicidal thoughts, yes, suicidal thoughts were completely gone. When I say depression, like when I tell people, oh, I don't get depressed, I don't deal with depression anymore, they're like, Oh, you don't you don't get sad or feel bad, and I'm like, oh no, no, no, no. I still have those emotions. So you just don't ruminate it. Yes, I'm like, I don't let them unpack and and stay unwelcomed, right? I I I allow myself to fill them and I recognize them and I'm aware of them. And then good riddance, like send them up their way. It's the ebb and flow. You feel them, let them go.
SPEAKER_00Come, you know, when they're life. Bad things are gonna happen, happy things are gonna happen. Exactly. But we have to know the difference, you know. It's like that, yeah. We have to have those those opposites to really appreciate those good. And I because if you had never struggled with depression, you wouldn't just be so excited that you never have to again. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, yeah, and there's opposition in all things, right? Like, yeah, hit rock bottom and okay, great, everything's easy peasy. No, like I knew nothing back then, like of the power of a soul. Like, I had no clue. I would go to church before I hit rock bottom and go, I'd hear these talks about the power of one or the difference one can make. And I'm like, yeah, right. Like, yeah, yeah, you're funny. But no, it's really true. Uh, and I'd like to go back to that church culture, like just this. I don't know, we we live in a a church culture culture. I had I get these, you're gonna find this out. Uh squirrel come in and then out. But we were talking about something that I wanted to tie church culture, but I can't quite remember what I was gonna say. So I will go back to that. Okay, when it comes, when it comes back, we'll we'll get there. Okay, but um, I know um after that, like so about six weeks later, we went on a vacation. After I had hit rock bottom, we went on a family vacation and I came home. We all came home and I was just livid. I was pissed off at everybody. I was ticked off at my husband, all my kids for doing this, not doing that, like even the baby for crying out loud because I was full and she wouldn't latch on. I'm like, it's right there, just eat. And I'm like, this is kid number eight. Like, I've been, I know what I'm doing, like what the heck? Like, and then it was shortly after that I found out that I had inverted nipple, and I'm like, oh, that's a thing, and oh, you can help that. Okay. So so that's like I'm trying. But I was so mad and angry and kept throwing in my mind, I'm mad at him for this, for doing this and not doing this about my husband. And then each one of my kids mad at this person and that. And then I was just sitting there seething in my anger, and the Holy Ghost just pricked my soul like to the very core, like to the very core. It was like, how sad is that, Angela? Your happiness is totally dependent on everything and everyone going on outside of you. Oh, sweetheart, that's not their job. That's yours. That's all on you. And it was like a ouch. That was like the biggest rebukement I think I've gotten in my life. Yeah, it was a beautiful aha. I was just like, oh my gosh. Okay. Um, so I was still angry, right? And God knows, like, anger is not something that leaves me easy, especially at this point, still in the unhealthy mindset. I was like finally having this internal dialogue. I was like, okay, God, you're telling me this all's up to me. Like, I'm probably one of the most unhappy people. I feel, I feel miserable. And um, I know I'm making my kids' lives miserable and stuff. Like, you're saying it's an inside job. You're gonna have to show me what that looks like because I have no idea where to start. Have no clue. And I'm like, so I'm like, just ask, just ask, ask that question. Show me how this looks like. And he didn't show me overnight. It wasn't like, oh, okay, this, this, this, and this. It it came in the weeks following, right? I remember I was so upset with a particular teen, and we were just butting heads. And I was just like, I've taught this person better. Like, why? And then God lovingly taught me in that moment that is not your job to change other people. That was another aha moment. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? I have a house full of people here. I've been trying to change my husband, been trying to change my kids, and it's not my job. So, what exactly is my job? His reply real quick was to work on yourself. The only person you can change in this life is you. And I was like, Okay, thank you. I'm like, you just made my job a lot easier, God. My my workload went from nine to one. Are you kidding? But it was a big job, right? I had I had a lot of work ahead of me at that point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but a lot less work than if you're changing nine people instead of the one, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And I was just like, okay, timing's everything. But yeah, so you think hitting that rock bottom healing journey, embarking on that healing journey, you think, okay, life's pretty good. Um, it was because a lot of people I tell people like, look, your healing journey, it's it's because they're like, well, well, when is the rest of because I it's an inside job, right? It's like a ripple effect. Something happens, has to take place from within. And um, and then can it go from without? You've got a real if that garden has dried up and has been like this dry, cracky desert, um, and you haven't nourished it and given it the proper water and resoiled nutrients into that soil and prepared that good, if you haven't cultivated that, it's gonna take some time, especially if the well has run dry for so many years.
SPEAKER_00Because you have to start and do that first. Yes. Because planting an unfertile soil or dry ground isn't gonna do anything. You're not gonna there's no fruits that come from it.
SPEAKER_02You can't start in the middle, you have to start no ground zero. And if God like I did, I'm like, God, why couldn't you have given me everything at once? Like when I hit rock bottom, and and then I'm like, and then immediately it was like, yeah, if I gave you everything all at once, you wouldn't have been able to handle that. Like you would have given up going, well, that's the hopeless cause. Like, that's just too much, I'm not going there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's all in his timing too, and I've noticed that in my life, is like when something happens and I get this big shift, I'm like, oh, but no, all of these little things prepared me for the big shift. Like you only pay attention sometimes to the big thing that happens and not everything that led up to it. Like with your depression, yeah, all these little micro moments that led up to that day where you from your belly were finally tired of it so much and knew this isn't me. Yeah, this is coming from outside of me. And I just heard that with its own words that it was not me talking to myself, it was an external source. So I want to get this source out of me. Yep, yes. So it takes time, but you had to have these little moments to feel like that's what you wanted.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true. And so, yeah, I just little bit by little bit, and so it took, so I get people that are like, oh, you know, well, how how long? And I'm like, well, let me just tell you my perspective and and my experience. I don't know, maybe it's different for everybody. Maybe I really am a slow learner. But um, it was funny because my my husband and I, like, uh, I'm gonna divulge some marriage secrets. Sorry, hun, if you don't want this out there, but I was just raised, you get in a fight, uh, you can just block that person and shut them out, and that's okay. And um, but that's that's what I grew up with, right? That's what you do.
SPEAKER_00That was your that's what you were modeled to.
SPEAKER_02That's yeah, exactly. That's all I knew. Is like, okay, you block this person out, you're mad at them, like leave them out. And so I tried this at 10 years of being married, I got in a really bad fight, and or we were arguing, and I just went to my room and like leave me alone. And he goes into the room and I'm and then he blocks the doorway because I wanted to leave, and he's like, I'm not letting you leave. And I'm like, what do you mean you're not letting me leave? And he was like, I deserve the respect for you to talk to me. I don't need to talk to you. I was just so upset. I'm like, I don't have to talk to you. I'm not talking to you. And he's like, I'm not going anywhere until you do. And so he sat there. We like sat there for like 20 minutes, and I'm just seething in my angry, and I'm like, keep looking up, and I'm like, he's not going anywhere. He's serious. And finally I got up and I'm like, you want to hear what I have to say? All right then. And he stood there and I unloaded. No, mind you, I'm still this was before I even hit rock bottom. I'm in very toxic land, right here. I unloaded everything from probably everything I could remember. And then like I was just throwing him under the bus for everything that annoyed me, whatever. And I was just, I probably didn't come up for error for like 10 minutes. And then when I was done, he was like, There, doesn't that feel so much better? And I was like, Yeah. But then like, and you just took it. I think he was wise at that point because you know, in our unhealthy frame, I don't know if you're familiar with um personality tests that they have all over. Have you ever heard of the Enneagram? Yeah, yeah, the triads and stuff. I was I went to a homeschool thing and they're like, hey, let's have a homeschool mom night out, and everybody come with your like what your personality type is and come with your husbands too, and let's have this big discussion. And they get to me around the room, and I'm like one of the last ones, like probably third to last, and and they get to me, and I'm like, okay, so my husband and I were both in the anger triad, and they all just were like, How are you guys still married? Like, if I then the one blurted out, if I could just be a fly on your wall, like the conversations that are going on. Like, so my husband was on this side of the tri anger triad, and I was on the other side. So he was very, he's very expressive, bold. He's got that red personality and he's just big personality. And mine was in the anger, but it was like bottle it up, bottle it up, and then explode when I've had enough kind of thing. So our poor kids, and when we were in the unhealthy phrase, it wasn't very fun. But um, so yeah, I learned right then and there that it's a good idea to learn communication skills. So thank goodness 10 years into marriage and not 30 years. Yeah. But I'm like Well, you might not have made it to 30. We wouldn't have made it to 30, exactly, if I wouldn't have learned that key thing. Because I I think it is.
SPEAKER_00I think it's like the base of everything is communication. Because yeah, you can't work through any of your problems if you're not willing to talk about them with each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and yeah, I mean it's to imagine just how much you love each other. Exactly. And yeah, and and so from that moment on, and my poor husband, he's like, Oh my gosh, okay, this means I'm in for like a butt chewing, or or she's gonna unload some. Am I am I quite ready for this? But anytime I'd be like, I I really gotta talk to you. I I've I've had this weighing on me for a long time. He's like, Oh, here we go. But he's been so good, and he has been like the best person, I think, in my journey that could do it with me. So it's been awesome. And so learning communication skills, but it took into my forward into my healing journey. It wasn't three days, it wasn't three weeks, it wasn't three meet months, it was three and a half years later, to where my husband, I was doing some training and um really working on the power of my thoughts and controlling my what goes into my thoughts and knowing that I had control of how I acted. My emotions were mine and I'm choosing how to act. No one can make me angry because you know, back in my unhealthy frame of mind, if I had a kid spill milk on the carpet, you made me so mad, I would just yell and just go off on him. You make me so mad, and you know, this makes me so angry. And now in my healthier, I'm like, no, no, no, no. That didn't, that instance of this milk being spilled on the carpet did not make me mad. I was already mad at something about it. It just, it just was a trigger for me to use and as an excuse to be mad.
SPEAKER_00It's like what we were saying, like sometimes you're just like here, and it's just the straw that broke the camel's back, you know, that one thing that just sets you off. But it's not about that one thing, it's about all the other things I'm not dealing with, not the milk on the carpet.
SPEAKER_02So many things. So I had been taking training from this guy and um about the mindset, power of mindset. And so um, I just remember at one point, it was even before. No, I had just hit rock bottom within a couple few months. I had had a friend invite me to go to class, and my husband's like, no, you're your your job as a mother. You need to stay home, be a mom. And I'm like, I really feel like I need to go to this class. Oh, blah, blah, blah. You know, he was trying to downplay it. And I finally got like, I am done feeling suppressed in life. Not to say I was being suppressed by him all the time, but I'm done being suppressed with emotions, depression, all this stuff for 30 plus years. I'm like, I am done. I feel like I've stayed stuck and stagnant for far too long, and no one is getting in my way of moving up the ladder of healing. Like, I am I'm done. And when I said that to my husband, he was like, Okay, yep, I think you need this trip. Like, go on this girl trip and have fun.
SPEAKER_00And so, so it was talking to me, so it must be serious.
SPEAKER_02She's talking again, and and I'm a person, I have a lot of passion. I I just I'm uh again, like the human design. I'm not, I don't know if you're familiar with that, but I'm a projector. So I have to be careful. I'm I have to learn to, and I'm still learning this with my kids. Like, hey, can I give you this suggestion instead of well, this is what I think you need to do, because it comes on a little different, right? Because projectors are kind of loud and they're big and they they have big energy, right? So um I just remember taking this course all about healing the mind and focusing and harnessing that energy and and that control. And so I had this whole weekend planned and I I told my family for a week, look, I have this on this weekend, what it's gonna look like. It's training at home, but I'm not home. So mom's here, but not here. Like, pretend I'm out of town and I'm just gonna shut my door, lock it. Hey, if it's an emergency, I'm here. But like, leave me alone. Anyway, we had just gotten an argument before that had happened, my husband and I. And um, I was just like, my old version would have been like, oh yeah, well, blah blah blah, back at you. Like I would have we would have gone back and forth, back and forth until somebody stormed out. And um at it was at this time, because I had already learned prior to this other training, that I just stood there and I just said a prayer in my head. And I was like, Heavenly Father, I am so grateful for this man. Like, I know he's so frustrated, but I am thankful for this and this and this. And I'm like, can you please help him feel your love? And help him feel my love for him too. And like, you know what, I'm taking it. Let him unload on me. Like, I'll I'll take it. And um, and then he stormed out. I think he just got frustrated that I wasn't entering the playing the game that we had played for so long. Like, and so later that morning he came in with a tray of food, just sobbing, said, I'm so sorry. Like, how do I and then later that day he was like, How do I get to be where you're at? And then months later after that, he was like, Never in my life, because he saw the sick, toxic, unhealthiest version of me. For years, for years, and he and then he saw three and a half years within the three and a half years later, he was like, How can I have the control of my life? How can I learn that? And and he said, Never mind life that I think I would go to you for advice. But he comes to me for advice this last night, how should I handle this? Like he comes to me all the time for advice, and I feel honored that we can collaborate and look at things at a different perspective. Um, there was something else that oh, so he would tell me how beautiful I was. So I went to this training, this three-day training with this gal, but he's like, Yeah, go have your girl time. I went to it and I went to a class, and mind you, I'm still like not knowing how to get out of my unhealthy mindframe. I go to this positive affirmation class, and I was like, I am gonna take her card and I'm gonna save it, and I'm not gonna lose it because I'm gonna call her and contact her and tell her what a fraud she is because she's teaching things that aren't truth. And so that was my plan, right? That poor teacher, she had no idea who was sitting in her class. But that's what I was that's was my thoughts because she was saying, you know, positive affirmations are powerful, you don't have to believe it when you say them. You just repetition is key, and looking yourself in the mirror is cool and better. And now that I've read books like Louise Hayes, have you heard of her? Love her, I love her books, just so much he leaned to, and but mirror work is important, and um, but I didn't realize the power of it. So, but I thought, you know, I'm a person, like I said, if I say I'm gonna eat a certain way, I'm gonna, I'm all in, 100% in. In fact, I'm going off key here. I have this brother, and he was like, dude, you eat so strict. Like, have you ever thought of just giving yourself a cheat day? Like, Friday, just call Friday your cheat day. Eat whatever you want, get it out of your system, and then eat really healthy the rest of the week. And I'm like, yeah, I've thought about it. I've thought about that a lot, but this is the deal with me. A cheat day would turn into one cheat day to the rest of the weekend and then lead into the rest of the week, and then I'm completely off. I'm like, I have to be all in or not.
SPEAKER_00So and everybody's different with that because exactly some people would be great who work out and exercise all the time can be really, really strict, but some of them can be like that. Like exactly. If I have one thing, I know I'm just taking that road because it it tasted so could I'm gonna just head down that road the rest of the week. Exactly. Or some people need a little variety so they don't feel like they have to go the weekend eating like eating jump like oh a bite of a cookie here or brownie there or you know exactly whatever it is just to keep that at bay I guess is what some people have more controls.
SPEAKER_02Well yeah and so I'm like that with the exercise like I I don't have to exercise every day. Like do I exercise? Yes. Do I love exercising? Yes. But I'm like my my best friend's out of town and we can't walk for a few weeks and I'm certainly not going 100% every in fact I'm like when are you coming home? We got to get back on our walking and so yeah it's it's okay that um we just know ourselves right just know who you are but so I did I was like I'm gonna do what she said and put it to the test. I came home didn't tell my husband about it.
SPEAKER_00Well plus you're proving your wrong too yeah I'm proving it wrong so even more dry more every day exactly how she said so I can show her how wrong I wasn't I didn't do it every day.
SPEAKER_02Like so I didn't do it every every day but I was stayed consistent enough like it would have probably worked a lot faster if I did it every day. Maybe I should have done it every day. But I did it as consistently as I could and I didn't even tell my husband what I was doing. I didn't even tell him because I'm like he's gonna think I'm weird whatever. So I just thought okay so in the mirror because I was told by significant um people like influential people in my life I had been told I'm ugly and um I I truly felt like I was one of the ugliest humans on the planet because and I know I'm not like and and you know looking back at me in my ugly ugly phase no I wasn't the ugly human being but when you feel all this turmoil with inside I felt ugly. And then just hearing that message repeated growing up how ugly I was it it doesn't leave you. And so at that point my husband and I had been married for 19 years 20 years and he would tell me how beautiful I was every day and it would go in one ear and out the other like I just it didn't stick. I didn't ever believe it. And so that was important. I'm like I'm gonna go big or go home with this positive affirmation thing. So I stood in front of the mirror and I would say I am a beautiful daughter of God. He loves and approves of me and I love and approve of myself too and I didn't feel anything. The first time I said it was just like I was numb didn't feel a thing I just looked probably probably I said it for the first time and probably walked away saying that was stupid. Like I didn't feel anything. And so I did it you know consistently ish enough but it was three to five months later that I had done it to where one day I get up in front of the mirror and before I can even get words out of my mouth tears I'm looking at myself my reflection and tears just started streaming down my face. And every fiber of my being every cell knew I knew that I was and still am today I am a beautiful daughter of God who loves me and approves of me and I love myself and approve of myself too and that is huge. And from then on my husband would tell me oh you're you're so beautiful and at first I'm like you don't have to tell me that anymore like I already know I'm like I know isn't that awesome I actually know I'm beautiful like I I was kind of conceited for a little bit for because that's the confidence God knew I needed the first time you were actually hearing it for the message that it was yes you'd never heard it for what it was before you always just thought oh it's my husband just being nice just saying what he has to say. Exactly you know so for the first time when you hear it it's like hearing it for the first time first time yeah and just the feeling that came with it like like no one you know when you learn a truth that no one can tell you otherwise no one can tell you otherwise I do know that and truth is truth it doesn't go away and sometimes when you have a belief that maybe not be true but it is ingrained like that yeah as you start to hear the truth you go oh actually that's not true.
SPEAKER_00Actually you know and I think that's beautiful that we can all change how we think about things. Yeah like that neuroplasticity in our brain is the most beautiful thing ever because you're not depressed anymore. Yeah absolutely you're not an angry mother to your children over the smallest things anymore. You know what I mean? Like these things that like we thought were just who we were yeah we as we get older I I swear if I had children now it'd be totally different.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah I would like yeah if I had kids now like I have grandkids right now but if I had grand that is the thing I know a Utah thing I I've heard of moms having babies with their children and they have my mom didn't yeah that happens right and so I tell people all the time like if that ever happened to me like people are people are like are you nuts like I'm 49 now right if if that ever happened to me it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'd be like oh my gosh God I get to go through a pregnancy with like decent emotions like I know how to handle my emotions that come and go like I am a firm believer the emotions we feel as women when we are pregnant I mean it's huge. Even the emotions of the father of the baby is huge. Like the baby picks up all emotions. It's generational and so if you're if you're not good in your mindset and if you have low self-esteem self-worth and angry all the time and complaining and just ick for the majority of the time you're passing a lot that on to your baby so that all eight of my kids but what's beautiful is the emotion code I love the emotion code been using that for the last few years and yeah there's a lot of work we can do to help and it's been beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and I think that's the beauty of it too is like nothing is permanent. We can always do our best to repair that's not to say that it's going to repair but we can do our best to repair and then it's up to the other party to to decide if that's something that they want to accept or not. And again we don't have control over that. Is that not our mom who wants to control everything sometimes it's really hard but you have to let like there's a thing too that I learned when my kids were growing up is you have to let them figure it out sometimes. Yeah. As painful as it is to watch an experience sometimes you just have to let go and let them figure it out because how are they going to learn?
SPEAKER_02Exactly how I learned that's how you learned exactly that's how we all learned that is why I'm grateful for all my past experiences because I feel like it has made me a better mom even though I was in my toxic years for a long time with my older ones um I've always been that mom like well I don't know how are you going to figure that out well you know you know we have a large family uh we know you know we don't have the funds for that how are you gonna make that happen for you like I'm not saying you can't but what are you gonna do for it? And so instilling hope that's another one of my messages for people in the healing is instilling hope in your kids is probably the number one thing that you can do for your kids. Let them want for things don't give them what they want when they want even though if it's something simple maybe doesn't cost a lot of money maybe it does cost a lot of money but just don't give in let them work for it. Let them feel the pain let them feel the whatever and it and it's building character in them and it just they they get a sense of value in working for whatever it is they want.
SPEAKER_00So yeah it's or like I my youngest son he had had his license for a few weeks and total my car and my car I'd had for like nine months. Oh yeah and you know we were just worried it we wanted to make sure he was okay so we show up and I'm like I had just worked out my hair's in a messy bun I don't even have shoes on because like we were I was just like I need to get to my baby. Yeah we get there and he's okay. He got hit right in his car door wow the driver's side door. Oh my gosh. It was fortunately was in a residential so the neither nobody was going very fast. But he I mean he had pulled out and a truck hit him and there goes the car. Wow yeah the lesson that we learned through that was we made him make the rest of the car payments until the car was whatever the insurance didn't cover he had to pay for yeah and I said consequences right like but he had been working since he was 15 he had a job and then he started paying his own insurance after that and now he's an adult and he bought himself a truck and he knows how to make a truck payment and pay for insurance because he's been doing it since he was 16 or something the most accountable one of in the top tier of accountable adults out there for that experience for sure for sure but it's just like things that as a parent sometimes you you just work on the fly and you're like what's the best way to handle this situation and yeah it's we all learn lessons. Sometimes they're hard lessons and sometimes they're easier but it's life like when we're raising children we have to teach them these lessons so that they learn so that they know oh okay this is what what real life is like I have to do this if this happens or or whatever it is. Yeah. And how how amazing that we get to learn those things as our kids grow up too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and I don't know if you don't dealt with this as a mom or from a big family but you're not being fair you you favor this person are you so unfair and finally I came to the you know what you're right I am not a fair God's not fair either if if God was fair we'd all be born blind come on like thank goodness God's not a fair God in that kind of way God's a just God he's a just God but like I'm like you can't be fair.
SPEAKER_00Well I always said well life isn't fair so the sooner that you learn that the better because Johnny's parents might have paid that car off for him and done everything for him so that he didn't have to feel the pain of making a payment on a car that's not there anymore or whatever that was. However I'm teaching you things that you can take with you throughout your life this is going to make you a better man. This is going to make you a better person this is going to make you more responsible with your your money and a better driver like there's so many lessons to be learned in that one little situation. So we do those things and yes did I want to just pay for it and not make him have to yes I did. That's the easy thing right but at the time I was like no because he I he has to understand this. Yeah this is a natural consequence to what happens. Yeah yeah and that's all we can do. Yeah and I mean it there's always something that comes up that we get to teach our children.
SPEAKER_02Oh constantly and then we learn a little bit more about ourselves at the time too oh yeah yeah we're not the same person we are each five you know you're not I'm not the same as I was last year. Like we're constantly changing right thank goodness for change.
SPEAKER_00A new like big preparation with our kids yeah it it and sometimes we have to step back and go oh what was my part in this what did I do that made them feel this way or or how could I have handled X Y and Z different yeah we can't go back and change it but we can just go forward and do better. And I think that's the beauty of life. Yeah no is it's never the end. Yeah and not rock bottom isn't the end. Yeah no it's the beginning like of the healing journey right we had a guest that just recently told us it's like it's a place for you to push off of to come up stronger. Yeah no I love that yeah yeah that's your launch right yeah it's your launch because it really is when you hit rock bottom there's nowhere else to go you're there there's only one way to go and that's up exactly and so now you get the opportunity to do something with that. Yeah and that's what we're all about here at Irene Cares. We really want people to know you're never even if you feel like oh my gosh I'm in this great state there's more oh yeah there is more up there. Yeah so you're never like yes you can hit rock bottom but you never but you're never stuck there. And just like I you know I'm healing every day still too yeah it's not a one of the and I'm still healing and there's more healing to happen because things are are showing up that I'm like I need to address that. I need to address that I need to address that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and by the way I love your Iran cares podcast what you do and your website what a beautiful tool like you oh Matt I'm like yeah where was this 10 years ago you know I mean how incredible it is to help people in their healing journey.
SPEAKER_00Well I think that when you've had your own experiences with trauma and loss and and big heavy stuff when you start to feel really good about your life and opportunities come for you to share that grow personal growth with other people you just want them to feel like you get to feel and that's a big reason why we do what we do.
SPEAKER_02I love it.
SPEAKER_00I want everyone to know that healing and hope is so there no matter where you are no matter what your life experience has been no matter who has hurt you no matter what trauma has happened there's always hope for healing.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely absolutely and you're living proof of that absolutely I just um so you talking on that trauma so God has been amazing through this journey and I had a zone client recently say gosh I'm not gonna lie I'm gonna be honest here you're you're kind of annoying like my sister you talk about God a lot and I'm like yeah I do and I'm like look at that as a trigger in you I'm not here to offend people this is my experience I've lived a Christian my whole life but was such a hypocrite because I'd go to church on Sundays yell all the way to church to my kids and then all the way home and then just being a funk and just not carrying what I had learned in throughout my week and so I was just being a hypocrite right and I'm like I hit rock bottom and God has taught me that yeah I need to rely He is the source like of all answers love God love is God God is love like the answer to all problems in our life and I'm like I cannot deny what hand he has had in my healing journey and it's daily like if I I could probably write volumes of what the tiny little tender mercy miracles every day because Living Guided will do that for you. And um it was not long after after I'd hit rock bottom and learning things we went on a vacation a family vacation and probably about a year later and I found this heart rock it was the most perfect heart rock at the size of a man's large fist it was just the coolest rock and I picked it up and I was like oh my gosh honey look at this rock and I I gave it to him and he's like looked at it and he tosses it to our 15 year old son at the time and he's like throw it in the river and I'm like don't you dare throw it in the river like so here this kid our teenage boy is caught between mom and dad. Dad is saying throw the rock in the river and mom is saying don't you dare throw it in the river well who does he end up listening to he ends up listening to dad and he throws this heart rock into the river like 50 feet. I'm never gonna get that heart rock back right Colorado River it's gone. And so I would livid I was ticked the rest of that trip. I'm like you know so after that point I think God's like huh that was really important to her. So God has spoken to me through heart rocks so many times like I was out the door one time just in a hurry going down my steps and I'm running down the stairs and I'm like did I just see what I saw and I go back and I'm like it's a heart rock oh that's so cool stuck it in my pocket and then for one Mother's Day um I had this this um gift basket and I took a picture and I'm like thank you so much for sending this gift and I realized there was a heart rock on the dresser so my baby was outside at the time which was good because she would have claimed that oh yeah I gave that to you but she didn't I asked my older daughter I'm like oh my gosh I'm just noticing this heart rock you put on with the gift on this dresser and she's like I didn't put that heart rock there and I'm like you didn't and she's like no and so I asked every one of my kids and did did you give this to me and they're like no and I said okay go ask your baby sister if don't tell her it's a heart rock just ask her if she put a rock up my dresser and she was like no I didn't put a rock on mom's dresser anyway she goes anyway and then she of course claimed it oh yeah yeah I did that was mine I'm like yeah no is it a heart oh yeah that was me yeah that was me no but so I don't know where this heart rock came from I have no idea like I'm calling it God his angels it just appeared so that was heart rock number two and then I'd come across another heart rock anyway um we were expecting our first grandbaby um in 23 in the spring of 23 his due date was at the end of March and my daughter was living in Washington state at the time so I'm like hey we will be there when you want us there and so she's like yeah it'd be good I don't know if I'm gonna go early so if you could be here a good week and a half before the baby's born so we planned to be there a week and a half before the baby was born and um it was like five days before he was she was 11 days late and it was five days before he was born and I was like we were on this rocky shore and I'm like God I don't know I just feel like I need a heart rock well let me back up two days before we left to go to this trip trip to see our first baby be born I got this feeling of um despair like just this dread it wasn't despair it was dread like I don't it's I never had it before and never had had it since but I just had this dread and I thought well is it because we're going in winter storms like we're probably gonna have a hard time getting there because it was in winter um still snowed sure enough we get there and we're my husband's white knuckling it all the way to the airport. It was so snowy and um once we got to the state of Washington a part of me was like okay I can relax like we're here safe and that must have been what that was and we're here. Thought nothing of it but and then I'm on this rocky seashore and I'm like I don't know Heavenly Father I just feel like I need a heart rock and look look look and 45 minutes goes and it's getting really cold and I'm like look I can't find one let's just go home. I'm cold and I go back to her apartment and five steps my teenage son leans over and says here's your heart rock and shows it in my face and I'm like oh my gosh it is a heart rock and I just needed it and so um not long after that my daughter's in labor and 30 minutes to into her pushing I get this feeling of dread again and I was like okay but and then after that feeling of dread I had this peace and love just like envelop me and I felt calm and I was like you know forgot about the dread real quick and then um our grandbaby was born silver and it was the hardest thing our family had gone through at that point. The beautiful part of that you always look for the silver linings right they resuscitated him and we had him for a week to wait for the other set of grandparents to come from across the country to say their goodbyes but um I just remember you know it's a mom you see your small children and they fall they scrape up their knees and you're right there you're able to doctor it up and make them feel better. And I just remember I went to God and I was like and it was right around Easter time perfect time of year Easter time and I'm like God there's nothing I can do for her what can I do for my baby that's had her baby and is losing her baby I've never had to go through this experience like what what do I do I said in fact I pleaded my God can you give me this pain can you give it to me like I'll take this on for her I will I'm her mom I I want to take this pain from her and it was right then and there he was like that's not for you to do as a mother that's why our savior is here she's gonna have to learn to come and take it to him and I was just like of course of course yeah that's the wise answer and that's the answer. But that was just really hard for me to go through and to this day it's been a few years we just got our grandbaby number two and she's a healthy baby and she's out of state and still haven't seen her but um just you you have these hard things that come up and if you haven't experienced it you don't know just like a lot of people with depression and suicidal thoughts like it's all in your head. Like if you have not dealt with it, I can tell the people that have not dealt with it at all because they're like oh it's all in your head just like snap out of it do this or whatever. And I'm like that's not how it goes. Um but if you haven't experienced it then you can't really and and me like so I feel like I haven't been there properly for my daughter like I've never experienced this but what I did as a mom was like you know what I know a couple of other people that have gone through this let me get you in touch with them they can hold your hand they can walk you through it um because they've experienced it and they can tell you their highs, the lows, what they've gone through, what has helped them and so um Yeah I would be the same way.
SPEAKER_00I would be the same way like can I just have this I know can I know I haven't done it before but I feel like I'm a little more equipped right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Which gave me a perspective of how God feels on all of us. I know.
SPEAKER_00I know that's where my brain goes to tender mercy again times. It's like sometimes I just wonder how God does do it all. Like I know he's not human, I know he's not like dealing with the same things we are, but he's still a father.
SPEAKER_02He has he has that purest perspective, right? Uh there's so many times where I'm like, I say this, I can't tell you how many times in a week. God, can you just please take off my lenses and just let me borrow yours for a minute? Because you have a better perspective and you can see things more clearly. And I just I just need that. And so I'm learned to let go and let God in that way because yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it's in those moments that you realize how humid you really are. Yes. But you can't take it away, but you know that God can. Yes, yep. And it's interesting, I kind of want to go back to what that woman said to you about you're always talking about God. Well, yeah, it's very hard not to when you've had the experiences that sound like we've had, I mean different, but the same kind of experiences with God. Yeah. Where when my daughter was born and I didn't know if she was gonna be okay, I knew from God that it was all gonna work out. Now, in my mind, it was like I'm gonna stay because I I was having complications while I was pregnant. I was like, I'm gonna stay pregnant, I'm gonna she's gonna be born full term, everything's gonna be how hunky dory, we're gonna just be great. So when she was coming at 24 weeks, I remember as I'm being wheeled down the hallway for an emergency C section. The last thought I had was okay, it's up to you. You promised me it would be okay. I'm gonna just trust it's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which it's hard.
SPEAKER_02It is hard because in the thick and through it all, you still touch and go, right? You still question it.
SPEAKER_00There was lots of things that happened from the point where I knew that she was gonna be okay to the point where she came home. Yeah. And there was a lot of ups and downs, those three and a half months in the hospital, and you know, that you're like I was sitting there watching my clock, like, okay, when is this gonna happen? And he's like, easy, there's a process here, yeah. And you know, I wasn't patient, and I was crying and mad and angry and just wanted my baby home so I could spend time with my son that's two and my baby that's just born, and yeah, all of these things, yeah, but all in his timing, and it's always perfect. It's true, and we don't know that until after. Exactly. But I'm I'm not a patient person, admittedly, and when I'm going through things, I try to think of okay, what's the lesson I can learn so that we can get through this and be done with this situation. And sometimes it's well, the lesson is the patience that it's gonna take you to get through this.
SPEAKER_02Which I don't know that uh there I I know there are people more patient, but um we live in such a fast-paced world, like everything's so go, go, go. And you want it, you can learn it now. Oh, you want it, it'll be to your doorstep. Like just a day or two. Yeah, the whole fulfillment. Like we we just live in that society, so it's like if you haven't developed patience by now, it's like we probably want to look at that because I'm not perfect at it yet either. In fact, last night was another reminder.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm in the middle of a patience experience right now.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00But but the thing is, is even though like I might feel impatient, really, I know that I can just always turn to God and He can give me peace. And he enhances my patience. He goes, Look, yeah, my promise hasn't changed, you just need to be patient, and it will come.
SPEAKER_02Well, and little do we know all the little things that he has to unfold and tell me.
SPEAKER_00All the orchestration has to do so that when it is presented to us, it's the perfect time for it to happen. And sometimes it's my growth, yeah, it's my experiences, it's my trials. It's like the refining process for me to be ready, yeah, to receive.
SPEAKER_02Or maybe it has nothing to do with you, but other people involved. And yeah, it's incredible. God's ways are not our ways. I know I learned that in that hardest trial our mind went through. I'm like, God taught me my ways are not your ways. Yeah, and I that's what got us through that hard, hard.
SPEAKER_00I think it's really important also to remember that his perspective is much broader than ours. Like we're looking at it from our little little narrow, and he's looking at it from all of his knowledge, all of his understanding, all of his love, all of his wisdom. Like there's just so much more that I think that we don't really think about. Yeah, you want to go deep is think of God's growth with all of us as children. You want to go deeply like wow. I know he cares about me. Yeah, think of how many other people on this earth that feel the same way because he cares about all of us. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of people and there's a lot of work, and it he's not human, so he can do all of that work, exactly. He can be everywhere and everything at all times. I'm grateful for that because if I had to wait in line, yeah, I don't, you know, if if I had to wait for him to feel his love, or if I had to wait for I don't know.
SPEAKER_02But what I really appreciate it is I think he knows when we've had it to as far as we could take it, right? We've had enough. The timing, the timing when things cross. It's like, God, you couldn't have picked a better timing.
SPEAKER_00He knows. He knows that we're better than we know ourselves. And our knuckles are white, and we're about to lose our grip, and he's like, Oh, I got you. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, and and it really is, and I'm so grateful for your testimony of that too, because I think it's so powerful and I think it's important to share. Yeah. And even if someone doesn't believe in God and they have a different belief, like source, even their higher version of their selves.
SPEAKER_02I I work with a client that didn't have any faith or belief in God whatsoever. And I'm like, just think of the highest version of yourself that you where you want to be at. What is that person telling you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Find something bigger than yourself, exactly, that you can hold on to because I think we all need that. I think every human is searching for something to truly believe in and to truly hold on to and cling to that we that we know will help us. And I think everybody searches for that. And like I feel very blessed to be born into a home where I was taught about Jesus from I don't even remember the first time, like my whole life. And so it it's been easier, I think, for me to now. I still had to figure it out for myself, even though I was absolutely and I and I thought I believed. There came a time where I had to really like figure, well, do you believe? Is this really something that you want to do the rest of your life? Like, yeah, it's I've had to, yeah. And everybody has to go through that because that's where we really lock into that faith.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I like to tell teenagers, question everything. Yep, and even question if there is a God. Question every everything. Because if you don't, how else will you know and learn?
SPEAKER_00You know, like only so long can your mom and dad's beliefs be yours. But then it there comes a time where now you have to figure out what's what's true, what's right for you. Yeah. What you believe.
SPEAKER_02What looks right for you might not be right for somebody else. That's why it's like so incredible how how it all works out.
SPEAKER_00But trusting the process. And giving our kids the space to do that is so important because I remember a family because we homeschooled when we lived in California, and I remember a family that really struggled with giving their children agency as teenagers. Nope, you can't go to that. Nope, you can't do that. No, you can't do that because this, this, and this could go wrong. Instead of being like, Okay, you well, you know our our rules, you know who you are. Yeah. Have fun, but just make really good choices. Yeah. Every time my kids leave, I don't say, return with honor. Yes, I say, I love you, have fun, and make good choices.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because their good choices are what's right for them.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, yeah, because they look different for everybody, right?
SPEAKER_00And sometimes their good choice to me doesn't look like a good choice, but the lesson learned or the thing that happened, or I learned something, I'm like, oh, that was a good choice for you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I might have made a different one, but that was good for you.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes good for you is it right? Yeah, it's good for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and if it's good for you, it doesn't mean it's good for everybody else, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And good for you sometimes is the wrong choice with the right lesson. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we have to always make sure our children know that they can never do anything that that God would not forgive them for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I that was another part of my growing up years, is I was grounded a lot as a teen. So I didn't know how to handle the teen years. When I got to the teen years, like my husband would be like, uh, you need to lighten up. Like you yeah, you know, and so thank goodness for my husband of like dad's the fun guy, right? And and so he thank goodness for him in the corner, because our teens have had, I feel like our teens have had an awesome experience in our home. Um, I was grounded every weekend just so that they had a babysitter, right? As a teen. And so I didn't get to have that life as a teenager and what it feels like to go out and hang out with friends. And so I've always I, you know, kind of, you know, held grudges about that resentment from that. And and but I made sure from that experience that my teens, every one of them would have a whole different experience. So there's a time at times that where my you know old self would be like, it but I just tell my kids, look, if I ever tell you no, it's because I feel like prompted that you should not be there for God knows why, but not me. But otherwise, I'm gonna let you have every experience you can have as a teen because you know what I've learned from that too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my kids make the best choices.
SPEAKER_02Because you're putting trust when you place that trust in them, that goes huge with them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then you see sometimes when they have friends that are like going off the defense. They they didn't have any freedom when they were in their parents' home. And I look at it like I want my kids to experience while they're with me. So when they struggle or they fall or something's hard, I'm there to help them navigate that. I'm not gonna take over, but we're gonna have those conversations that help them figure out oh, do I really want to keep doing that? No, that's I don't like that. I'm gonna make a better choice next.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, and and and choices is like friends for me for my kids, is like, you know, I told all my kids it's choose your friends wisely, they will make or break you. Like who you who you spend your time with, what you're doing, and yeah, and you know, it it is true. So the little the younger siblings have the advantage over the elders, and thank goodness for the elders, because they do teach a lot of lessons for the youngers.
SPEAKER_00And the older ones get to see you changing and growing, and and yeah, they get to say, hey mom, how come you're so patient with the little ones, but with us you weren't? And you get to say, you know what? That's kind of a mess. Yeah, I didn't do some of the work I should have done. I and share those things with them and say, you know, if you feel like you might have some of these things, now's the perfect time.
SPEAKER_02Maybe you know, and this is a good message that I'd like to share with people out there because um sometimes you just have these relationships that are like you feel like you're button heads and you can't have talks. Um, I just know when my oldest son left to the uh Marines, his his buddies were all going to their senior year in high school and he went to boot camp. We had to sign off for him to do that at an earlier age. But um he just left and we were at ends, and I just felt so terrible. I, you know, I was just like coming out of my learning how to have a healthy and finally um someone had told me about spirit to spirit talks. Like, if you feel like you can't talk to your son, like maybe say a prayer and ask for his spirit to represent. And why don't you have a spirit to spirit conversation? And I'm like, huh, okay, that's weird. It's different. Never heard of that. I think I'll try it. That's just me. If it's weird, different enough. And for some reason, seems like it could work. Not gonna hurt me or somebody else, then why not? And so I did. I I did that exercise one day. I just went took myself out in the backyard and just had a chat and was like, okay, God, I really want to talk to this person, and and I'm asking that his spirit's here and that we can have a spirit-to-spirit conversation. And I was able to say, you know, look, I'm so sorry for doing this, this, this, and I feel like I was the hardest on you for this, this, this. And I hope you can forgive me. And I really appreciate this, this, and this and you. Anyway, after having that spirit-to-spirit conversation, it's like, I don't know how it happened, but our relationship has just gotten stronger and stronger to where we just have this beautiful relationship. I love that and so I I struggle with um connecting. Like I said, I I struggle with connection with my kids older than eight and even into their adult years, I've had a hard time struggling connecting because I just wasn't on. I wonder if I'm like gonna be this awesome 80-year-old mom to a 50-year-old person because that was my really healthy version or whatever, but I'll be able to relate to them good. But no, it's just I'm I'm learning that we're all just learning, but it's just important that so yeah, I even doing another spirit to spirit with another person, uh, another one of my children, it's flourished. I hear from them more often, and we're just able to have a more open communication, and it makes a difference. Thank you for sharing that. There are beautiful tools out there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And prayer is just so powerful. Yeah. But I love I love that you had this thought. Or did somebody tell you? Somebody, yeah, somebody. I love that somebody said that to you because sometimes you can't talk. Sometimes you need to just like you pray, but this is I love that. Thank you for sharing.
SPEAKER_02It makes it no, it it makes it so personal, right? It's like they're there, like you can't talk to them in the physical form, but yet you can. Everything happens on a spiritual level first. And so that's been a really powerful human.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I I would I lost my dad and my brother both to cancer.
unknownOh yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so sorry. Yeah, it's hard. Like my dad was one of the greatest people in my life. But I pray, I don't pray to my dad, but I pray and I just say, let my dad know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just have a spirit-to-spirit conversation.
SPEAKER_00But I love that because that that will make it feel more intimate, I think.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I think that we communicate, can communicate with people on the other side too.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you know, all the time because um my grandbaby, uh, our first that was born, um, you know, she was in the military, she wasn't, you know, married, and so she was just like, um, I'm having a baby. And I know her dad's reaction was gonna be not very good, but me, I'm like, are you kidding? I'll be a grandma in any form. Like, I'm so excited. And so I wanted to make sure that this baby knew it was coming in an environment of you are so loved, you are so wanted, you are so welcome to our family. We love you. And I would have conversations before they even picked out a name for them, and I would just talk to them like that, and then that's probably why you had that connection with kind of knowing what was about to happen before. I think so. I think so. That's funny. I never thought of that, that, but you just saying that, I'm like, oh yeah, that that feels right.
SPEAKER_00Because you needed to be a little prepared, even though you weren't prepared. Yeah, I know. Yeah, something's about to happen. Yeah. So that somewhere in your body it was preparing, even if you weren't consciously. I think that's somewhere you were kind of preparing for that. So that when it happened, you're like, oh, that's what it was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for it's so cool to have this conversation because yeah, that totally checks and clarifies.
SPEAKER_00But well, that's just the way my brain was.
SPEAKER_02Well, you want to hear something funny too, is um being a twin, growing up as a twin, like and comparing, oh my gosh, we need to stop comparing ourselves to people. Um, I that was a toxic thing that I think everybody does, right? But being an identical twin, I thought I I think I had a little worse because that's all we were we were always compared. Well, why can't you be more like your sister and doing this? And she's more prettier and she's smarter, or this or that, you know, and so all these comparison things, and it was terrible. But um I uh I was being a twin, I was in purple and she was in pink our whole first 11 years of life. I wore purple because people are like, yeah, like how did they and my mom's like, Oh yeah, well, she's like, I never confused them, but for everybody else, you're in purple and she had pink. And by the time I was 11, I'm like, I hate the color purple. Like, I don't want a thing to do with the color purple. And um when my daughter had had her baby, uh, people from in the military from all over the world or wherever they were stationed, they were sending their flowers and they were all purple. And I'm like, I told my daughter, there is a reason for those purple flowers, pay attention because there's a reason for it. And I said, That's his color. So if you ever see it, just think of him and he's with you and just just know that that can be a calm, calming thing for you. And um and then they won a free photo shoot, and the photographer got to pick the field and it was in a full of purple flowers everywhere. I'm like, yeah, he was there with you guys, but ever since then that's been my favorite color and um my new favorite color. And it's just you know, having a hard time on his second birthday. I was just like, you know, cut speaks to us through colors, numbers, animals, like so many ways that he speaks to us, other people like just hone in on those. But just in it was in the dark. I have all black socks, and it was in the dark, and I was reaching for some socks, and I went into the living room to put my socks and shoes on, and I'm like, I had purple today. Thank you, God, you knew I needed purple for this hard day, and you know, how do I comfort my daughter today? And just yeah, just tender.
SPEAKER_01It's just tender mercy.
SPEAKER_00Tender mercy, even a pair of purple socks could be a tender mercy, yes, yeah. Yep. So let's kind of come back and talk about the book that you wrote because I want to hear about that.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So um I wrote a so that was my thing. Coming out of this healing journey, I was just like, I was offering free classes in my community, um, but trying to find a spot, like trying to get a new spot every time for every class. And I'm like, that's a pain. And then finally this lady was like, Whoa, you're offering free classes. I'm gonna let you use my garage for free. Like, come. And so I did it and I advertised, and I got some people showing up the first couple of times, and oh, this is awesome. I feel like I'm living up to my mission and purpose, like sharing my story and helping other people heal, and and then crickets, no one was no one showed up to like the three last classes. And I was like, God, why are they not showing up? And he kind of nudged me and was like, you know, you're not placing value on yourself. And if you're not placing value on yourself, why would anybody else do the same? And I'm like, ha, thanks. Gotcha. So that's when I stopped doing the free classes. But I was really wanting to get my message out. And um so I'm just like, I just need some inspiration. Maybe, maybe my state president can give me some some inspiration. And so I was like, Hey, I I I I know I can't use church buildings. Do you have any suggestions of how we can get this uh message my message out? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, just oh my gosh, have you thought about writing a book? And I'm like, No, but thank you. Oh my gosh. So I was like, that was that was fall of 2022, November when I talked to him. And so I was just like, you know what? I want to write this book because my grandbaby's born in March, and I'm my my deadline, I'm just gonna tell myself March 15th. Well, I think I made it like a week earlier than March 15th. I had my book done, finished it and was like, this is awesome. Now it wasn't out on Amazon yet at that point, but I finished the book and that was all I wanted for to ready to be edited. And then um after that experience, I came, we were on the flight home, and I told my husband, I'm not done with my book. And he's like, What do you mean you're not done with your book? You you finished it before we left. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. So my book is called You Are Made to Heal Spiritually, Emotionally, Mentally, and Physically. And I don't have a chapter on grief. We had just lost our grandbaby. And I got to write that last chapter in the thick of the heartest grief I had been up to up to that point, I would say. So it was beautiful, it was a tender mercy that I was like, wow, okay. I mean, I'm not saying that's why his life was lost, but it was a beautiful moment for me to you know have that connect.
SPEAKER_00It's one of those things where God's like, there's just a little more you need to add. Yeah, yeah. Not that this was and I didn't make it my last chapter.
SPEAKER_02I made it like the second to last chapter, but then the last chapter. But anyway, so I wrote this book and then I got it on Amazon in um the fall of 24. And then um I just re-edited it. Like, so no knowing I was doing this podcast. Well, six months ago, I'm like, I just really need to, because it's called You Are Made to Heal. And I had a lot of Wheeze. Wheeze is a pe we have as a society, do this and that. And I'm like, my book is called You Are Made to Heal. I want to put power in people's hands, I want them to feel empowered. empowered. I want them to feel like they can make these choices. They're they're not these are just some tools that I've used in my healing journey. Hopefully it helps. Not the answer to everything, but this has been amazing for me. And um so I was able to just go through and I'd worked over full time like timing this podcast was like me coming across like this Irene cares the whole thing was like wow. Timing, timing. So I had worked well over full time for a long time and my schedule just completely opened up um a month and a half ago. And that six months that I've been going yeah I need to re-edit my book. I don't know when I'm going to find the time I just was able to sit down and just put in all the you's everywhere that I wanted to and was able to like make it look a little nicer. I'm sure there's still mistakes in it. But I was able to upload it you should have seen me yesterday. I was so I thought it would have been done a couple days ago but yesterday I uploaded it at five and it wasn't working. It wasn't working and finally I'm like okay we'll come back to it I've got to go to work and then I'm like okay I'm gonna give it till midnight if it works and so I just said a prayer I'm like okay God you know this is important to me I wanted to have this uploaded so that people can um hear about my book and just see the new version. That would be great to have it uploaded. But whatever like if it's meant to be then you're gonna help me but midnight midnight's my deadline I gotta go to bed 1140 like the last button Amazon finally accepted the cover. No warning sign on the cover. You should have heard me like woohoo it's going through anyway so I got it all. So yeah you are made to heal spiritually emotionally mentally and physically is just that a a book to let people know that we're we are amazing incredible human beings. I am no better than anybody else in their walk of life and we're just all here helping each other to get back home.
SPEAKER_00Yes and so yeah and the thing is we don't even know the reach that we have we don't know who's like I don't know who's watched this podcast and it's changed their life. I don't know that yeah I hope I hope that it happens yeah I hope that people hear these stories of of the guests we've had and feel so inspired to be like look I was I wasn't even that bad or I was in a similar place or whatever it is something resonates with them and they go you know what I'm gonna do one thing to just start down that path. Yeah I'm gonna just it's time it is it's time I just gotta go I've been putting it off because it's easier to just stay where I'm comfortable what I know even though it's not comfortable it's just known and not unknown. The healing journey can be messy and hard because it's unknown. So thank you for writing that book and thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_02Yes you're welcome in fact I started a YouTube channel before I even knew I was going to wait work well over full time I had consistently I did a YouTube channel. Same thing like I don't know who this is going to reach. Hopefully it reaches somebody and on the days where I'd get kind of down and out I'm like I just feel like no one's seeing me or hearing my message not that yeah we all want to be seen and heard but I'm like I'm here to help other people and I just want to know that I'm doing that and God is really good. Like I would get a message from some complete stranger living in a whole different part of the world like thank you for your message for da da da da da and you know you're a beautiful soul keep sharing and just those little to keep you going right I bet you guys have a lot of tender mercies that keep you going with your vision of Irene well we're partners with God and we know what we're supposed to do.
SPEAKER_00And so we love we pray before we do a podcast we pray before we do a meeting we just like to to really connect with God so that we can make the best choices because we know that what we're doing is for his children. Yeah yeah and to help his children it's not about us. Yeah like we're I like I have a voice and I'm not afraid to use it. Yeah I have you know I can sit here and talk to anybody because I love talking to people and I love hearing their stories. And so that I feel like that's my gift and if I can film it put it out on the internet for somebody to find yeah hopefully that can touch someone's heart. Yeah. And like you said it's not about me. I'm just bold enough to say whatever comes to my mind and film it put it out for the whole world whoever wants to have access to it. But it's yeah it's being vulnerable and sharing our stories which is huge that helps us connect with each other.
SPEAKER_02It's huge because I was told don't you dare tell your boys don't tell anybody like you shouldn't you shouldn't share your story. I was told to stay quiet uh um from a you know influential figure in my life and I was like no this I this needs to be shared and so I've appropriate time right there's a timing for it but um you know my youngest is in high school so all my kids know my past and my history and so I think it's important that they do know because if we suppress how are we going to help other people on the journey and as they get older too they can look back and be like that's my mom struggled so much.
SPEAKER_00She had all this stuff. Yeah because as they go on their own healing journey because we all have a journey to healing at some point in our life. Exactly those of us that just want to feel good do at least and we're here to try and inspire the ones that aren't quite sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah like you want to so no when we lost our grandbaby I was going through footzoning school to be a foot zone practitioner and the first day I left my husband's like have fun at your weird school and I'm like okay I will and I came home and I'm like okay I know you think what I'm doing is just so crazy. But give me your foot. I do want to work on your feet is that okay and he had been dealing with some pain for about six to eight months prior and I said that's all I want. Just let me work on your feet and I had worked on it a couple times and then a few weeks later he was like just out of the blue he's like you know my pain that I've had for the last several months it just dawned on me I haven't been feeling that for the last few days and I'm like huh and then he was like yeah foot zoning is the only thing that I've done different so I think there's something to it so he called complained about his job like three months later he was like ah this is this and I'm like honey you would make an awesome foot zoner what are your thoughts about going to foot zoning school and he was like actually yeah yeah I think that's what I'm supposed to do. So he became a foot zone practitioner too and then the next year I became an instructor to teach it and this next following year he's gonna do the same thing so he can become an instructor so that we can teach it and become a a powerhouse. Yeah teach together but share messages along this alongside the teaching of the foot zoning because foot zoning isn't just foot zoning it's not just about I mean you you you have a captive audience it's a great time to spiritual emotional mental and physical healing.
SPEAKER_00So yeah yeah and would you start to hit one you want to hit the others uh yeah yeah if I were to just physically heal heal because you could physically heal but this still things like psychologically there's actually still physical things that you haven't healed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah I know healthy people that eat super healthy but aren't quite there in their mindset like you know down on other people right and left and you know that's great. Or you can have you can think you're spiritually mentally and emotionally well off but if you have this body that's feeling sick and yucky all the time your focus is solely on your physical there's no way you have time for the spiritual emotional mental so if we can focus on all of them all together that's what brings balance into our life is that complete balance. So I agree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah thank you so much. Thank you. This is so wonderful. Let people know where they can find you and where they can follow you and then also your YouTube too.
SPEAKER_02Okay so I'm so not tech savvy for all you out there you're gonna laugh at me. So what I'll do is I'll text it all to you like the link. Well we'll put it on the link oh you're just I'm gonna say it out loud. Oh say it out loud okay perfect so you can find me on YouTube if you just search made to heal with Angela Brown. So made to heal with Angela Brown and um I'm trying to do more shorts trying to keep them short. But you um also on Facebook I try to do a daily video. It's I probably unfriend a lot of people have probably unfriended me because I do it daily and it's but I'm like there's so many bad things out there. I want somebody to look forward to something positive and feel free to scroll past. You don't have to listen to me every day but I like to have little things to share that way. And then I have um our footzoning website that I have at Sunny Souls footzoning square dot site. Anyway that will be on attached to it. But yeah just lots of things that now that I teach it it's it's been incredible to um I've incorporated my book with the uh foot zoning there's uh several books that are included with that course but I get to bring my book alongside it and it's it's kind of cool. That's good.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for sharing your experiences being vulnerable and sharing the hard stuff because the hard stuff is I think what helps people see the beauty of the healing part.
SPEAKER_02And there's hope.
SPEAKER_00There's always hope.
SPEAKER_02Life is beautiful I I couldn't say all years past that I was grateful for every day, but I truly am grateful for each day and life is beautiful and out of the ugliest of ugly days that we have there is beauty to be seen and to be found and it's there's hope. Just looking for that silver lining, the rainbow, the the sunlight there's it's always there.
SPEAKER_00So yeah I could have said it better myself. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you opportunity and God bless