IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast

IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast - Episode 1 (featuring Kevin Mathurin)

• Ark House Rehab • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Welcome to the brand new series of IN Recovery - The Ark House Podcast.

A companion guide for those on their addiction recovery journey, we also want to offer advice and support for those still suffering and offer solutions for those who just want to know more.

In this Christmas Special to kick off Series One, Presenters and Ark House team members Richard and Sam talk to guests including Emmerdale actor KEVIN MATHURIN who has been clean and sober for over 15 years. 

They also speak to world renowned counsellor YOUNG LEE about Christmas survival tips and catch up with OLI who graduated from Ark House in 2025 and is staying strong on his recovery journey. He offers some hope, faith and courage.

This new podcast shares real conversations, lived experience and honest stories of hope and transformation within the recovery community. From personal journeys to professional insights into addiction and treatment, IN Recovery gives a powerful voice to those walking the path of change. 

Join our recovery conversation...

If you or a loved one need help from addiction, please know there is help. Reach out and speak to Ark House today....

PHONE 01723 371869

EMAIL info@arkhouserehab.co.uk

ADDRESS 15 Valley Road, Scarborough, Y011 2LY

WEBSITE www.arkhouserehab.co.uk

FACEBOOK @arkhouserehabltd

INSTAGRAM @in_recovery_podcast

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the first episode of In Recovery, just in time for Christmas, which we know can be challenging for all of us in recovery.

SPEAKER_04:

No better time then for us to launch our brand new podcast which aims to help you navigate your journey. I'm Richard, one of the Amakamps team, and I came here myself in 2020 to find a new way of loving. I've been clean and sober for five and a half years now.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm Sam. I am for Peace of Port Healer and I've been a manual recovery pant for over 11 months. Alongside Richard and other members of the Amakhouse family, we'll be bringing you supportive and inspirational interviews with professionals, graduates and celebrities. So sit back and join our recovery conversation.

SPEAKER_04:

So today's guest under the Recovery Spotlight, you will know him from one of TV's biggest shows, Emmerdale. He has played the Vicar Charles for five years now. He has played at the National Theatre and has been a backing dancer for legends, including Diana Ross, Kylie, Whitney Houston, Cher, and the Spice Girls. We found a new way of life, celebrating an amazing 15 years in recovery earlier this year. It's my great pleasure to welcome Kevin Mutherin to our podcast. Welcome. Thank you for having me. So firstly, I'm guessing the lifestyle on the road with the Megastars was a crazy one.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's just say the 90s was an amazing period. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I I'll I've got to honestly say, like, I was very privileged to get paid to do something that I loved and travel all around the world doing something like that I loved. But to be quite honest with you, the downside of it is like I've been in through almost every country, but only seen it through a hotel window.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it becomes quite isolating at times.

SPEAKER_01:

Um it can be. At the time you don't think anything of it, you think like because there's a few of you about you are living an amazing life at the time you're you're young, you're you're you're you're earning great money. The nightlife was what what what we craved for at the time. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

In May you celebrated 15 years being clean and sober, which is amazing. What made you change all those years ago?

SPEAKER_01:

I basically hit my rock button, man. Uh to be quite honest, I knew that I had issues and a problem, and I tried so many different ways to sort of knock it on the head, but nothing worked until I picked up the phone to a friend that I knew was already in recovery and said, like, take me to my first meeting. And I never looked back.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I you know, my mine was pretty similar in that you know, I I guess you start off in that party lifestyle, don't you, where you you're out and you're out in towns and clubs and bars and restaurants, and then like you say, you become to that party of one, you know, and and mine was a lot of mine was in a hotel just by myself, just kind of getting on with what I needed to do in that room, you know, day after day after day. And uh, you know, for me, the consequences for me were I lost my family, I lost my five boys, I lost my wife for a period of time, and I lost everything. Yeah, you know, I had this empty feeling inside, and um, I guess that was the same for you in terms of there was a lot of things that you lost before you came into recovery.

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely, I was very selfish, and I knew that I was hurting a lot of people that loved me, but I couldn't put them first. Do you know what I mean? It had to get to a point where everything had to go, and that's when I was like, okay, there's nowhere else to go now, apart from as they say in the rooms, jails, institutions, and death. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At first I made the mistake of doing recovery and expecting people to sort of welcome me back and give me a pat on the shoulder. Uh, you know, sorry meant nothing. So it was all about consistency, not doing it for other people, doing it for yourself.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, I uh I I I totally resignated with that. I my sponsor says to me, you know, you pissed all over the word sorry. You know, you can't you can't use that word anymore. No, man. Um and what I've found in in recovery is that people want that consistency. You know, if you're a month, it's it's nothing to them when you've when you've caused chaos for 17 years of their lives. You know, I've got to the stage where I've got five beautiful boys, four of them are in my life, you know, one of them is still on the edge, still waiting for me to probably pick up or use or do something. It is a time thing, and um yeah, it's uh it's every day, innit? It's everyday routine for me.

SPEAKER_01:

In that time, just you know, that 24 hours, do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like I I couldn't see the possibilities of where I am now and the relationships that I've rebuilt. They can see the change and the actions rather than the words, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Talking of words, so uh you know, I read something on your social media um that you wrote, which was reap the benefits of change. The journey can be fearful to begin, hard at the start, and disappointing at times, and boring to continue, but the rewards, you know, just explain about what you mean about the the rewards that you've got now.

SPEAKER_01:

And people have said in meetings before that God will only give you what you can handle at this moment of time. And yeah, when I first heard that, I was like, damn, okay. Yeah, yeah, all right, and so you sit with it, sit with it and enjoy what you've got right here and now. Yeah, and then in time you'll be ready to you know, for your life to grow, and like I said, the bricks will keep building, do you know what I mean? You won't get it at the time you want it. Like if for work, for instance, you know, auditions, there'd be parts that I'm like, oh, I really want to get that. Maybe that was that that was a job that wasn't for me, do you know what I mean? And then the next one will come along. That's the job that I'm supposed to get, you know. Yeah, just having acceptance.

SPEAKER_04:

In terms of you know, today, you know, what would you say to somebody who was struggling at the moment?

SPEAKER_01:

Ask for help, don't leave it in your mind and keep it to yourself. And I don't find sharing easy, but when I have shared and realized that I'm not alone in these thoughts, it's allowed me to breathe and like, oh, actually, I'm I'm not that different.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean that that that's similar to m my experience around you know going into the rooms and what have you. You know, I I found it really, really difficult, even though I had such a high-profile job, but when I was when I was active in my addiction, that was the only reason why I could stand up and speak in front of people because I had a substance in me. Then that substance was taken away, and then I'm asked to go into a room of 17 people and sit down, and I'm thinking, Jesus Christ, I don't fancy doing this today at all. And then I've got to open my mouth, yeah. And these are the massive feelings and fears that I have on a daily basis, yeah. And then all of a sudden you go into this room and you find out that you're not going to be judged, yeah, and you start to hear things and you start to get identification, which was one of the biggest things that I got. Where well fucking hell, I've done that, yeah, and I've also done that, and I've also felt that. And I I immediately from being alone, I felt very much included in something.

SPEAKER_01:

Observing has been the best lesson for me, listening. Like that's when I think during my recovery, that's when I kind of started sussing out who are my real friends and who are my party friends. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my inner circle has got so small now.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. So, what would you say to a younger Kevin now then?

SPEAKER_01:

Recognize the alarm bells. You would have found the joys of recovery a lot earlier, yeah. And um, you're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, we're we're we're coming up to a a period at the in time at Christmas time and what have you. And um, you know, if somebody was early in recovery, who you met in the rooms, you know, what sort of advice would you give to them around Christmas and how they managed to stay clean and I just remember like my first Christmas man, it was just I was so anxious.

SPEAKER_01:

Um just don't be alone, be around your loved ones and um make that call if you feel uncomfortable, like you know, if people are pouring a drink and whatnot, just make that call. There'll be someone to pick up the phone, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

And can you remember your last Christmas in the madness?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I basically used to just turn up to my mum's hire just to turn up in time for the dinner, yeah. And then looking at the clock, thinking and I'd make an excuse. So I'd literally be there maybe an hour to two hours, like so disrespectful, man. Yeah, and then just to go back to my flat on my own, so heartbreaking to think back now, so disrespectful.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, my I think one of my last Christmases that I had out there was um, you know, I I was about 400 metres away from my house in a car asleep, and I couldn't get out of the car and go celebrate Christmas because my head was telling me that they're gonna find out that I'm using that, I've done this, I've done that, and done the other. And I sat there for 12 hours, and then I just drove my drove my car away and just sat in another car park. Wow, and you know, today Christmas is totally different for me. You know, today is I'm not even thinking about what present shall I buy my mum today. You know, she just wants to see me, yeah, and she wants to see me clean and sober and be able to sit down and have a conversation like me and you are having today, talking about whatever, and and she's happy with that, and I'm happy with that today.

SPEAKER_01:

The person that's in front of her, she's like, Okay, I don't have to worry about you now, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And she's just enjoying her grandchildren. Do you know what I mean? She comes over, she's coming over now. Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_04:

I've got one last question for you. What can we expect over the Yorkshire Dales in Emmerdale this Christmas?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I don't know, man. I don't know whether I can leak any spoilers, boy. I think Charles is having a sort of a like me, like a quiet one, to be quite honest. Like, I'm not he's not really involved in any major storylines at the moment, which is I'm quite happy with that. Do you know what I mean? I just want the simple life, like my real life.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, no chaos. Well, listen, thank you for using your voice today.

SPEAKER_01:

No worries. I'm I'm I I'm happy to sort of use a platform like this to basically show and and share the message for people that are struggling, do you know what I mean? To sit to let them know that I've been where they are, and yeah, you know, there's possibilities, do you know what I mean? Yeah, and I was happy to sort of take this on board because um to be quite honest, like I I was struggling not with my recovery, but I wasn't going to as many meetings as I as I'd like. But when this opportunity came up, it made me sort of realize, okay, I didn't get here on my own. So I've been sort of doing a lot of more online meetings of late. Yeah, yeah. And sort of, you know reconnecting and making me realise, yeah, man, this is what it's all about.

SPEAKER_04:

And that's the beautiful thing about this today, is that I'm last on the list.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, and and if I can help people, speak to people, talk to people like you, you know, who can spread this word and have as and have got a social media presence, then it will help anybody and everybody, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

And I feel like when you're reminded of where you started from and the people that helped you, that keeps you humble and keeps you sort of grateful for what we've been blessed with, and that's like the message of recovery, you know. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Anyway, listen, I'm gonna wrap this up now because I think you need to probably get ready for your mum to come around.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we got no worries, it was an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_00:

In recovery. In recovery. Every episode, I will be talking to someone who has taken a huge step forward to embrace change and hope, and has made the massive decision to start their recovery journey in Arc House Rehab. Ark House has helped thousands of people over the past 30 years, and today I am joined by one of them. He's 37, and after 20 years of being in addiction, he is now celebrating over 23 months of being on a new path. It is a massive welcome to Ollie. How are you?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'm really good. Really good to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

We obviously need to forgive ourselves for the past in our recovery journey, but if we could turn back the clock, what was life in addiction like for you?

SPEAKER_03:

Very dark. It reached a point where I was on my own. I was a lone wolf, I was using, I was drinking on my own. Uh I had no family, I had no friends. Completely isolated, I was just living to drink and use.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, I really relate to that, you know, just living to drink and use, you know, that was my solution to my problems, not realising that, you know, everything could happen because of the drink and drugs. That was the problem, you know. I had to really look at myself um, you know, working this programme. I managed to do all that, you know, it's not like that today. So when do you think the problem really started for you?

SPEAKER_03:

Really early on, when I was 19, I was up in court for a pretty bad crime that I'd committed under the influence. Uh I was I was court-ordered to a to a drug treatment kind of programme. Um so even at that very early age, you know, my my my drinking and using was was way out of control and was causing me a lot of a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I can resonate with that because I grew up with my mum and I always thought I'd never be like her, but I'd become worse than her. And how quickly did things progress for you?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, from there, from from 19, you know, I kind of went through the well-trodden path of of different substances. Um, but it was probably my late twenties and early 30s where where things got really, really dark and the kind of you know, the heavy drugs, the crack, the heroin, and and the really heavy drinking started.

SPEAKER_00:

And I suppose when you get to that level, it's like falling off a cliff, isn't it? I know when I first started drinking and using, it was for fun with my friends. You know, it was all fun for so many years until you know life just came crashing down and became my solution, you know, and I had nothing and no one. What about you?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think I think it's important to acknowledge that, you know, a lot of us have a lot of fun in the beginning. Um I certainly did have some fun, but it was quite clear that my my using and drinking was was quite different to other people's in the fact that I quite liked using drugs on my own.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the difference between us and others is that when the consequences happen for other people, they might actually stop. Whereas we just carry on and the consequences get worse and worse.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because my mind won't allow me to to remember with with sufficient force the the suffering that I put myself through and other people just as importantly.

SPEAKER_00:

So how did you find yourself coming in the doors of our cows?

SPEAKER_03:

So I'd been in a different treatment centre for a month, I I picked back up um and uh I had nowhere else to go. Uh I was I was I I I stayed in a hotel, but after that my my plan wasn't to stay on the street. Thankfully someone someone came and helped me and picked me up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so my story of getting here is completely different to yours. Um my partner came to our house, you know, for six months, and he actually came back to Hull where I'm from, you know, with his big book looking all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, you know, trying to get and carrying the message to me, which uh give me hope. Um we got we moved here, started going to the meetings, got a sponsor, you know, and started putting in the action. But going back to what you said, it's insanity looking back, isn't it? That we actually regard homelessness as a good option.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely, yeah. I really relate to that because I had experienced uh homelessness before in a hostel and actually having absolutely no responsibility and just being able to focus on my drink and drug use um at that time. I I took some comfort in that and I was incredibly sad and incredibly hopeless.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what advice would you give to people who are scared of coming into rehab? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_03:

I was scared about what what what it was going to be like, but actually um, you know, one, it's really not a long time out of your life. If you're really done and you're really you really, really want to stop using, but you really can't, you know, treatment will give you the tools to be able to live freely from from alcoholism and drug addiction.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, when I see people come through the doors, you know, um broken and scared, and then they start getting this stuff, you know, and seeing the light is come on, you know, they've got the tools, like you said. Do you know it's just such a beautiful thing, you know, seeing them coming back to life and you know, coming out of the shell of it, you know, it's such a privilege to witness.

SPEAKER_03:

What what I did find here was that actually everyone was really, really kind and helpful, other clients and stuff. And I was from the moment I set foot in this treatment centre, I was made to feel feel at home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it really is a big family here. I mean, I've just got a secret Santa present. And what I see is that there is real routine for people put in place from getting up and doing different duties to meal times and cleaning up, it gets structure back into people's lives, which as we know helps when you come out.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and this this place teaches you a lot, a lot of really amazing skills and and and principles to live by. But it is when I when I leave treatment that's that's when I need to start start actually practicing what I've learned in the real world.

SPEAKER_00:

Talking of which, what does your recovery look like now?

SPEAKER_03:

I've had the honour and the privilege of taking quite a few guys through through the 12-step. I I was always told, you know, create the fellowship that you crave. So I set up a couple of meetings. What I found in in the 12-step fellowships is a sufficient substitute, which is actually more wonderful, more amazing than anything I've ever experienced in all my life. And that, you know, I say that deep down from the bottom of my heart because it's it's it's been an incredible experience, and it and it's open to anyone, it's open to absolutely anyone.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I really love that about the fellowship. You know, it doesn't matter how broken, down, and beaten you are, you know, they're there with open arms, cup of tea, you know, and people to talk to and listen to. Um yeah, it's beautiful. So, with Christmas Days away, what is your advice for anyone worried about coping over the festive? Period.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I've had one Christmas in recovery. I guess the best advice I can give is just keep plugged into the into the programme, keep attending meetings, enjoy the time that you have with your family, be present. It was it was a real amazing experience to be to be with my family for the first Christmas in a long time.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so amazing to hear. I know when I was out in the madness, you know, days before Christmas, I would just get so smashed up. You know, I'd take anything and everything so that when Christmas Day had come and I can hear movement outside, I would just conk out because I just did not want to see that Christmas Day without my family, you know, and just realizing the tragedy of the life, what I had, what I'd created for taking drink and drugs. Okay, so to win the quick fire question round. Are you ready, Ollie?

SPEAKER_03:

I am.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's your new healthiest habit?

SPEAKER_03:

Looking after my body, I put a lot of weight on an early recovery. God gave me this body, so it's about time I started looking after it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no little treats for Christmas then. What's your favourite recovery cliche?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna be really honest, I don't really like any of them. Bit in the book that says, no, I have a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's an amazing one. And what is your favourite new activity to beat boredom?

SPEAKER_03:

Go and help someone else.

SPEAKER_00:

Step 12 right there, passing the message on and helping others. And finally, if people are sat struggling with their emotions, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_03:

Talk, talk about them. I came off opiates and alcohol. Um, my my feelings and emotions and urges, shall we say, came back with with a lot of a lot of power. And and it was challenging sometimes. But the more open and honest I am about it, that that really helps. And just being centred and and and sitting through, you know, I had to go through the physical pain of my opiate withdrawal and just being able to sit through that and being like, look, you know, I'm uncomfortable, but am I okay being uncomfortable and knowing that it will pass?

SPEAKER_00:

That's the thing, isn't it? You can't go around the pin or underneath it, you just need to sit in it and it will pass.

SPEAKER_03:

And as I've already mentioned, you know, helping someone else, thinking about someone else will always will always help me because the less less time I'm thinking about myself, the better.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, thanks so much, Ollie, and have a really lovely, clean Christmas.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, thank thanks for inviting me, and it's been it's been an honour and a privilege. Yeah, have a great Christmas yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

In recovery!

SPEAKER_04:

Every episode we bring you a recovery hack, techniques that build a toolbox to help you recover in your journey. Coming up in this series, we will look at bettering your sleep cycle, handling anxiety, and beating the boredom. But with Christmas on its way, we face one of the biggest challenges of our recovery journey. So, with a survival guide to the festive season, I'm joined by one of Ark House's leading counsellors and lecturers in the 12-step programme who has been in recovery for almost seven years. For the first time on the podcast, it's my pleasure to welcome Young Lee. Welcome, Young. Hi Richard. Do you remember your first Christmas in recovery?

SPEAKER_02:

I came into treatment on Christmas Eve 2018, and that was a very difficult and challenging Christmas because I came out of a psychiatric unit. Wow. I came off a huge dose of methadone and alcohol and prescription drugs, and I was abusing prescription drugs whilst doing the detox. So I came into Arc House absolutely smashed to pieces and broken. And what really helped, even though I didn't think it at the time, was being around people. Because my mind told me that I wanted to be alone and away from everybody. But I don't really count that as my first one because you know when you're in treatment, you're in this protective bubble. My first Christmas out of treatment, against people's advice, I went down to Cornwall and spent it with an ex-girlfriend who was a friend of mine and her friend, both like alcohol, like most normal people, they haven't got a problem with it. Big Irish family, I'm in the house, everyone's drinking, someone comes up to me and says, Would you like a drink? I wasn't confident, confident enough to just say, I don't drink and let's leave it at that. And they and they kept, you know, prodding, saying, Oh, why? Come on, just have one, it won't hurt. And for me, because I was quite new in, it felt like all eyes were on me. Of course they're not, but I'm self-obsessed in this moment. And they said, Why don't you drink? Why don't you drink? And I said something like, Because if I drink, I'll end up smoking crack cocaine and robbing your house. Now, of course, that didn't go down too well because they're just a normal, lovely family, and they looked at me with kind of shock and horror. What I learned from that in early recovery, not even in early recovery, always have a plan to just go. Not because I'm gonna drink, but I don't want to be sat with people who are just talking complete nonsense. And today, Christmas is just another day. You know, I don't turn on recovery and turn off recovery.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, like you've said, and I'll pick up on that, that you know, these special times that happen now, you know, Christmas days, birthdays, all those kinds of things, for me, they're just another day in recovery, you know. And what I've learned is that it's about getting up, showing up, and just getting on with it, you know, day by day.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And and you know, it's it's we we were talking to some new guys today around this. Around for many of us, even from the moment we go to school and and we become teenagers and we discover, you know, alcohol or drugs, all the other things that kind of go with it, it's almost like the weekend becomes this special, these special days, and as we grow, it's still it's almost like Saturday and Sunday and Friday, and more special the Monday to Thursday. Yeah, yeah. And it's like that's not the case at all. Monday's as special as a Saturday, and and and we go through this shift and this change, and and just to go back to the Christmas time, just because it's come into my mind, my Christmases used to be very, very different. And one comes into my mind when I was in this this house in Hackney and I and I was I was uh you know smoking crack and doing heroin and drinking vodka and all the things, and this was this was about 20 odd years ago, and it was freezing cold, and there was this tiny little fire, and we had a little bit of firewood, and we rinsed the firewood out, and there was no firewood left, and we were freezing cold. And for some reason, there happened to be a brand new flat-pack kitchen in the kitchen, so we ended up just burning it all. And I look back to moments like that and think, thank God, I am not there today. And it all started in this place on that first Christmas when I felt alone, I felt terrified, I didn't know there was a way out, but kind of the people in here sort of held me and and and you know made me feel safe, and and just little by little, you know, I thought maybe I'll get through this. But I guess people have all these different, especially as well, because even for for a non-alcoholic or drug addict, you know, it brings up so much stress for normal people, yeah, like Christmas. Yeah, oh the family want me to and we we living in this way of life, like I know a lot of people, and I get what they say. You know, one of my teachers uses the phrase a bridge to normal living in the 12 steps. I like to say it's a bridge out of normal living because normal living seems to be greedy, selfish, stressing out about Christmas, and we have a bridge out of that. Yeah, it where it doesn't stress us out, it doesn't stress me out. Christmas is is like it's just another another day.

SPEAKER_04:

I was like, you I left treatment, I didn't have a job, I wasn't looking for a job, you know. I was on benefits, and um the one thing that was um at the forefront of my mind was recovery, and then Christmas suddenly catches up with you, and you've got Christmas decorations up, Christmas tree to sort out, Christmas dinner to sort out, you're on a really low budget, you've got presents to buy. There's all these expectations that I was putting on myself when really what I found out was that all my family wanted me to be was clean. Yeah, if I was gonna say to anybody around finances at Christmas time and what have you, you know, don't set yourself expectations, just go with it. And as long as you've got I am my understanding is as long as I've got God on my side, Christmas will be alright, I'll cover itself. How would you what sort of advice would you give to somebody who was going back to their own flat by themselves, no family, no kids, no real support?

SPEAKER_02:

Someone in recovery, if they're in the 12-step recovery, what we deal with here, if if they're in it, their recovery is not dependent upon external things, it's not dependent upon their families being with them, their kids being with them, it's dependent upon their relationship with God, helping others, inventing all the all the things, and then the external, they're they're okay internally. There's there's so many meetings on online, really, really good, really good meetings, also face-to-face all over the country. But also what just came into my mind was something that that I I teach. Get off sounds funny because we're doing this with social media, get off your social media, you know. Especially look, if if I'm lonely, or if I haven't got a family and I'm looking at social media, I am thinking, I'm I I start falling into self-pity city. Everyone's life looks better than mine. I forget that people are just putting what they put on social media.

SPEAKER_04:

And I know you're pretty keen on meditation and all that kind of stuff. You know, what can you give me an outline of what you do with regards to meditation over Christmas, how to reconnect and all that when you when you are alone and feeling a bit of fear and what have you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I came back from holiday over the summer and a sponsor of mine said, Did you have time to pray and meditate? And I sort of laughed and he said, Why are you laughing? I said, It's a bit like asking me, Did I have time to eat? You know, I eat because it sustains my body. Yeah. And I pray and meditate because it sustains my spiritual condition. So every day for me is is no different from the last. You know, my my one of my friends just talks about chopping wood and carrying water, just doing the same things over and over until the ordinary becomes extraordinary. Yeah. So perhaps instead of looking at social media, we can go on YouTube, type in meditation. Favourite of mine is Moody, Moody Media, but there's many different types.

SPEAKER_04:

In recovery, we go back to families, or some of us go back to families, we're feeling a full of fear, full of anxiety. You know, can you give any tips on how you would open up to your family and explain how you're feeling?

SPEAKER_02:

We have to be really careful as drug addicts and alcoholics because we are selfish and self-centered and we love talking about ourselves. And we're used to doing that, and and we need to do that in a sense, and we do that in close circles, etc. etc. But with our families, it depends what they're like. You know, I think particularly in early recovery, we want to tell everyone about everything and overshare, and they don't give a shit. Excuse my language. You know, they they just want to our demonstration is better, but you're right as well. So, but again, if I've got a father or a mother who's not used to talking about feelings and stuff, and I say I feel really vulnerable, yeah, I'm not likely to get a response that pleases me, yeah, okay. And I might get into resentment.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But maybe I've got a brother or a cousin, so I guess it's judging the situation. Yeah, a better way of doing things if someone's at their family's over Christmas and they are feeling vulnerable or fearful, pick up the phone to one of your fellows who understands you.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And one of the things I've learned with regards to that is I always speak to my sponsor about any situation that I'm going into. So if I'm going to a wedding, you know, I'll speak to him about who's going to be there. Is it family? Is it friends? What that may look like at 11 o'clock at night when I really don't want to be there.

SPEAKER_02:

All these things. Whenever, if ever I was to phone up my teachers, my sponsors, my guides, if I was in one of those situations and I and I'd say, Oh, I'm you know, I feel like this, they would always say, Go and help someone young. Yeah, yeah. Here's a newcomer, let's go and speak to them. Because then that that takes me out of me, and it really does work when I'm really stuck in my head, when I'm quite new in, and and and you know, I'm worried about this, I'm worried about that. I speak to a few newcomers and it takes it takes me out of my mind. But I think as well, you know, that because we've got to look at this practically, haven't we? Not being stuck somewhere like I was on that New Year's Eve, not feeling embarrassed, you know, thinking, Oh, what are they gonna think about me if I say I'm gonna go? Having those boundaries, look, I'm going.

SPEAKER_04:

I always think it's a challenge to do the big firsts in recovery. Christmas is a massive first. Does it get better after the first one?

SPEAKER_02:

Life gets better. Like I always like I love sharing this, you know. I love shouting about this programme because I'm very I'm very passionate about this program. Um when I was new in, I was all in, like I am today. And some people used to come up to me in the rooms that I used to go to. I don't want to break traditions, so I won't mention them. Um, and say things like, You're just on a pink fluffy cloud. Now I would never say that to someone new, yeah, even if they are, so what? Because you're basically a miserable so-and-so saying it's gonna get worse. Yeah, my experience is as the years go on, I'm still on it. So if that's your experience, that's cool, no worries. And and it's not to say we all have different experiences, but to anyone new, I didn't know what was on offer in the in the recovery 12-step programme. I thought it was just being clean and sober, and at the beginning, I would have taken that all day long. Yeah, I didn't know this is an amazing deep spiritual journey of of um selflessness, yeah, of feeling joy, of being able to feel sad and feel confused, and being able to flow with with the winds of life and not want to change how you feel. I didn't know what I didn't know. So, if there's anyone listening to this who's thinking about getting in recovery, what have you got to lose apart from your life?

SPEAKER_04:

I've been able in my recovery to be able to get in a car when I didn't have a car five and a half years ago, drive to see my parents on Christmas Day, sober, interact with them, have a nice meal, and drive away. And and and that for me is something that I couldn't do ten years ago. You know, I didn't was I didn't have the capabilities to do it, I didn't want to do it. You know, I wanted to be sat in a pub drinking. You know, that was my experiences with a lot of Christmases. You know, today for me they do get better.

SPEAKER_02:

It's it's very common in in treatment in here, and and and it's understandable, you know, people say, I'm gonna, I'm I'm scared of being sober or clean because I'm gonna be boring. Yeah, you know, Christmas won't be fun, etc. And and I always say to them, when was the last time it was like that? It's just it's just an image that someone has in their mind, which was maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago. The last Christmas, you were sat in a skip smoking crack. Yeah, like it's smashing the delusion in the mind of what it used to be like because it wasn't like that's not what brought us in here. Correct. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So the last one, this is this is the three big tips that I want from you for surviving Christmas. What are your three big tips?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, look, man, um 12-step program. Live in a 12-step program. You know, we're safe and protected as long as I'm doing these things each day. Don't don't be afraid to pick up the phone when you're feeling awkward feelings, perhaps maybe guilt or shame around your family. Yeah, don't don't be scared to, or perhaps have an exit plan. Because often, surprise, surprise, people find their parents challenging, don't they? They seem to be on every step five I've ever done. Mum, dad. So don't be afraid to say, I'm coming round for two hours or four hours only. Yeah. Rather than oh, come for the whole day. Let's stay the night, let's stay for four days. Yeah. Four hours. Yeah, yeah, be boundaries. Yeah, boundaries. And don't have any expectations. Yeah. Because we can build it up like this huge thing that I need to have a good time. No, I don't. Ask yourself, not what I can get out. Oh, I'm gonna make it top. Well, not what I can get out of Christmas Day, what can I bring to it? Yeah, what can I bring to it? So on Christmas Day in here, don't tell the boss, but I'll probably spend a lot of it wrapping presents for my kids. Yeah, and that gets me really excited, you know, and and I can put them in the car that you know I I have a car today because I didn't used to, and I didn't used to be able to do these beautiful things that I don't take for granted. So I'll spend I'll spend a few days down with them, but Christmas Day, I'll spend it with these guys because it's really special for me personally because I was in here on Christmas Day and I remember what it felt like. Yeah, do you know what I mean? So I quite like spending it with East Lot. Nice, thank you for that. And young, have a great Christmas.

SPEAKER_04:

And you, Richard. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. If you or your loved ones are suffering from addiction, please know there is help. Get in touch with Arc House today. Coming up on the next episode is one of the country's biggest comedians, Marcus Brigstock.