IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast - S2 EP 3 - Feat CHRIS KIRKLAND

IN RECOVERY - THE ARK HOUSE PODCAST welcomes you to the second season of our recovery conversation. 

IN RECOVERY is a companion guide for those on their addiction recovery journey. We also want to offer advice and support for those still suffering and offer solutions for those who just want to know more. This is a well-being podcast produced and presented by people with lived experience who want to carry the message of recovery.

Every episode we speak to someone in the spotlight who shares their struggles with addiction. This week former professional goalkeeper CHRIS KIRKLAND who famously played for Liverpool, Wigan and Sheffield Wednesday. Secretly he was hiding a severe painkiller addiction that almost cost him everything. Chris now does a lot of work to carry the message of recovery and joins us to share his story.

Former resident of Ark House ALEX joins us to talk about his cocaine addiction. Alex has not long left Ark House Rehab and speaks to us about what the rehabilitation process has taught him.

We are also joined by the founder of The Recovery Games, NEIL FIRBANK. The games started over ten years ago to give those in recovery a chance to see what life can look like free from substances. This event has become a huge hit with over 40 teams taking part in an It's A Knockout style competition every year. Neil tells us how recovering from a heroin addiction, 24 years ago, spurred him on to help others on their journeys.

This podcast shares real conversations, lived experience and honest stories of hope and transformation within the recovery community. From personal journeys to professional insights into addiction and treatment, IN RECOVERY gives a powerful voice to those walking the path of change. 

Join our recovery conversation..

CONTACT THE RECOVERY GAMES

The Recovery Games take place on the 13th September. If you want to volunteer, provide sponsorship or get more information then please visit the team on their social media. 

FACEBOOK

https://www.facebook.com/recoverygames/?locale=en_GB

INSTAGRAM

https://www.instagram.com/recovery_games1/

If you or a loved one need help from addiction, please know there is help. Reach out and speak to Ark House today....

PHONE 01723 371869

EMAIL info@arkhouserehab.co.uk

ADDRESS 15 Valley Road, Scarborough, Y011 2LY

WEBSITE www.arkhouserehab.co.uk

FACEBOOK  @arkhouserehabltd

INSTAGRAM @in_recovery_podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

I'm Sam and along with Richard we are here to bring you inspiring stories of recovery as well as game-changing tips and advice.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Whether you're in addiction, in recovery, or just want to know more, we welcome you to our recovery conversation.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Coming up today, one of football's legendary goalkeepers, Chris Kirkland, along with former resident of AC House, Alex, one of thousands of people who came for Air House rehab to start his recovery journey.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

We also speak to someone who is making life bright and colourful for people in recovery. The founder of the Recovery Games, Neil Furbank.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

So sit back and enjoy another episode of In Recovery.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

Every episode we talk to someone from the world of music, film, TV and sports who has battled addiction issues, is on their recovery journey and is here to share their story in the hope that it can help others. Today, an English football coach and former professional goalkeeper who made 321 League and Cup appearances and in 2006 was called up for England. He's played for teams such as Liverpool, Wigan and Sheffield Wednesday, retiring at the age of 35, a struggle he now talks about as part of his work promoting improved support systems within football. It's a pleasure to welcome to the podcast Chris Kirkland.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Yeah, it's great to be on and well done for everything that you do.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Thank you. Let's start with the amazing story I found that when you were 11 years old, your dad and some friends placed bets of £100 each at 100 to 1 odds that you will play for England before the age of 30.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Well, yeah, it's I mean I was an outfield player to start, so I was always obsessed with sport and loved all kinds of sport. As soon as I got home from school, I was whether it was hitting golf balls, tennis, football. But I was an outfield player to start, and then I was on the bench, I was never any good. And the goalkeeper got injured one day, and I was sort of one of the only ones on the bench, and the manager said, Look, do you want to go in goal? And I just said, Look, I've never played. He said, We'll just give it a go. And I did, and that's where things took off. And then my dad, after that game, he just said it was as though I'd played in golf all my career, like from a young kid, and it and that's when he put the bet on. So never told me about it. I never never knew about the bet until 2006 when I went when I made my England debut. Yeah, so the England debut was something that was it took a while to get. But yeah, listen, thankfully it paid off, and my dad and a few other friends and family made a few quid.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

Nice. So was it as always a dream of yours to play football?

SPEAKER_03 2:25

And football was always the one. I mean, I was yeah, I mean, I was I was pretty decent at cricket as well. I loved tennis, but sport in general, but yeah, I think I think football, and then when it got serious when I when I stuck to goalkeeping around 13, 14, yeah, I was I was determined to make it.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

So in 2001 you signed for Liverpool as a goalkeeper for six million, which was a the most expensive goalkeeper in British transfer history, and you were 20 years old. I mean, I presume that brought a huge amount of pressure on you.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

No, not really, no. Um, I mean I was always a Liverpool fan, so we used to my first time was when I was seven, eight years old, my dad on the cop used to stand on the cop when they could get tickets, uh, which wasn't very often. So, yeah, sign for Liverpool was was the dream come true. Um, but no, when you're young, you don't you don't feel any pressure when you're young. You just you know that that stuff's all dealt with, your aging sort of all the fees out and everything like that. I just wanted to play football and train. I was obsessed with training, probably too much. I was I was always on the training ground, always in the gym. But yeah, no, there was I never felt any pressure. I think it's more when you get a little bit older. I've always said this. I think once you get over, probably over 30, your body starts to slow down a little bit, you can't do the things that you once did. I think that's more than when the pressure comes. And listen, playing at Liverpool's pressure, don't get me wrong, but I've always said this when when I was at Wigan, probably the pressure of being near the bottom of the league with the threat of relegation is far much more pressure. You know, if you don't win a league, if you don't win a tie, you don't live in the league again next year. If you get relegated, the the the effect it has on that club. You know, I was I was in the team that got relegated for Coventry, and it took them 25 years to get back. So yeah, the pressure at the bottom for me, and probably the ones at the top all say that's nonsense, but the pressure at the bottom for me is far more, far more worse than at the top.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

Yeah, and and I you know, obviously it's part of your career, you suffered a lot with injuries. How did that affect you as a player?

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah, well, when I was at Liverpool, I did. I had a lot of injuries, uh, a lot of serious ones that just happened, a lot of them were collisions. Yeah, the time at Liverpool was tough with the injuries because once I got in and was doing well, I'd get a serious injury. But again, you're young, so you know, I was 20, I left there when I was 25. You're still young and your body recovers, but yeah, then those injuries can catch up with you when you when you get a bit older.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

So when you started to get a bit older then, was that when sort of you started to use painkillers?

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Well, yeah, I mean, I I when I went to Wigan, I had a couple of back spasms and got older a couple then, but it wasn't nothing, it was more when I went to Sheffield Wednesday. My routine changed. I was travelling, I was away from home a lot, and my routine had completely changed from what it was used to for the previous 11 years. So I was 15 minutes from Liverpool, 15 minutes from Wigan. You know, I was home in the afternoons, I could do all the stuff, the important stuff, you know, family stuff, but that was gone. So I got older some Sheffield Wednesday, I had a slight twins before the first game, but they helped with the anxiety being away from home. So I just yeah, I thought this is great. This because I really struggle when I'm away from home. I did I did back then, and and but as you know yourself, once you find something, even though you know it's you know it's wrong what you're doing. I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I shouldn't be using them for that reason. But the addiction gets hold of you very quick and it and it tells you what you think it wants you to earn keeps you to it's keeps you to itself, tell keep it's very selfish, and before you know it, you you can't stop.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

Talk to me about the levels that you ended up taking, you know, in the height of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Well, in my worst, I was on well over 2,000 milligrams a day of tramadol. Uh I was on cocodamol as well, stuff you dissolve in drinks, sulfidine, I was on antidepressants as well. So, yeah, at my worst, I was um yeah, well over two thousand a day, which obviously, as you know, is is far more than you should be taking, but you need it because one or two don't do it anymore, and you don't feel anything, and you know, so you need more and more and more. And yeah, there was a few nights where I took, I mean, some nights where I took over two and a half thousand, and I was hallucinating, throwing up being sick, and and you say, I'm not gonna do it again, I'm not gonna do it again, and you wake up the next morning and you crave it, then you need more, you know, or you're or I'd stop for one day or two days, but then the withdrawals semi-brut also, yeah. It was a it was a once you're in that cycle, once you're in that that cycle of addiction, it's it's hard. It's so hard to break it. And and when you don't tell anyone about it, when you keep it to yourself, you always end up going back to it. I I only broke it when I when I told the truth and and had that support around us. And thankfully, you know, it's been over four years now, and yeah, that we've put things in place now to hopefully never go back to them days.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

I tried to keep it a secret for 17 years, you know. I was hiding it wherever I possibly could, doing it out of the house, doing it in hotels, cars, wherever I could hide and be just be alone. You know, I learned pretty early in treatment that secrets keep you sick, and I guess that did keep me sick for 17 years because I I wasn't prepared to tell anybody about it. I hid it from doctors, my wife, kids.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

It's you yeah, it's and when nobody knows, it's all it's almost impossible.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

I can remember going for a pint of milk to the local supermarket and never picking up that pint of milk. And I sat in the car for it's about 36 hours taking drugs. I could remember seeing people taking the kids, you know, dropping them into the supermarket to go get some shopping, and I just sat there crying my eyes out, thinking, fucking hell, why can't I do that? Why can I not be a part of that normal life?

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Vicious circle.

SPEAKER_05 7:21

Yeah. So when you took when you were taking these levels, were you were you still playing professional at football then, or was it kind of Yeah?

SPEAKER_03 7:29

So I was at Preston. So I left Sheffield Wednesday to get closer to home, but even at Sheffield Wednesday, I was still taking a lot. And then when I went to Preston, I thought moving back home would would help and I could get back into my old routine, but yeah, by then I was three years in and truly addicted. So yeah, I was still taking them when I was when I was still involved with football, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

So when did you when did you decide it was enough?

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Well, I I retired in 2016, got off them for a little bit, missed the routine of being a footballer, went back on them, and then I went to rehab in 2019, but only the rehab knew. Nobody else knew, and didn't tell anyone on the outside. I was there in there for the addiction, but also for depression and anxiety and everything like that as well. But it was 2022 when I when I told the truth. So yeah, April 17th, I got older some off the internet. I was getting them off the internet as well, off the black market, and they weren't they weren't tramadoc. Yeah, they sent me just do lally and I took some that day and I remember and it they nearly did kill us. I was having a heart palpation, I was sweating, I come home and misses members it. I was white as a ghost, I was I looked drunk and I went to bed, slept for about 15-16 hours, and I got up on the next day, April the 18th, and said, Right, if I don't tell the truth now, I'm gonna be dead. You know, they'd have killed me, or I was having suicidal thoughts as well. But the drugs would have death, they would have definitely killed me because I was I was taking that many and getting them off the internet as well, and you just don't know what they are off the internet, not what they say. So that was the day, yeah. So I told my wife, told everyone, come out and told, rang it, Henry Winter, and this and I did that not for sympathy, I didn't want to tell the world just to get pat. I wanted to do it because I didn't want to, I wanted to feel free, I wanted to feel as though there's no eye in place. We've had drug tests at home the last four years, which have been the best thing we've ever done. And knowing their them tests are at home have probably been the biggest thing that's kept us off. So they're the best things we've ever done to anyone I tell now, say get drug tests. If it's alcohol, get a breathalyzer at home, if you've got a partner, friends, get them to test you regularly. And and the threat of that, knowing that you can't get away with it, has been the best thing that we've done. It's like the postman and stuff. He, if there's any envelopes or parcels, or give them to the girls instead of me. Yeah, so I can't open any stuff without them here. So yeah, we've done we've done a lot of stuff, went to the doctors, went to the GP. We told them we didn't want prescribing anymore. So yeah, we we put a lot of things in place and thankfully it's worked.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

And how d how does it feel today, you know, with the with the openness around it all now?

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Oh, free. Yeah, free. It happened, and it's how you react to that now. So you can either stay quiet and sit in shame, or you can do something about it and try and focus your energy on to helping other people do it and keeping yourself straight. Um, but a lot of the time when people say, you know, the first thing I say, listen, you've got to tell the truth, you've got to tell your partner, your friends, your family. And they and a lot of them turn and I say, I can't do that. I went, Well, if you don't, then you're gonna be going back to them. It's very difficult on your own. But a lot of them say, a lot of them say about that, well, I'll be ashamed, I'll be embarrassed, and it's not about that. It's about um as soon as you tell someone, it's a it you feel as though you've got a way out of it then, because you're not on your own and you're not being sneaky anymore. This is sneaky, you mentioned it there. I was kind of like I cut a hole in the in the car floor and uh under the carpets and hid them all in there, because the one place you are probably the most for me anyway was in the car. So I knew I'd always have them in the car. So yeah, it's a sneakiness. And once you once people know about that, you can't be sneak anymore.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

I think the other thing as well about you know, this telling people for for me, it was ego deflating. It's pride and ego, isn't it, that keeps you out there a lot of the time. You know, it was certainly for me. I didn't want because none of my family used drugs, none of my family are addicts. I worked in a bank, I had a professional job, and then ultimately I I I picked up a drug that changed my life. You know, it's just ego deflating, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 10:56

You're having to tell people that see you as that person, and all of a sudden my biggest regret is I never told people sooner. Ten years it took me to tell the truth, and then those ten years have gone now. So it's uh that's the difficult part that I never spoke. But when you're in it, you just you don't.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Obviously, part of your journey is getting this message out, you know, your story. I mean, how are you helping people do that?

SPEAKER_03 11:18

I've always said my my socials always open, my DMs are. I've always been open. I do videos when I'm out walking just around the recovery process and where I'm up to now. So I do a lot of stuff for Liverpool Foundation, it's on the community ambassador for them. So we go into a lot of schools, a lot of mental health places, and I do a lot of talks there, talk about it. So yeah, I do as much as I can. But yeah, the main main works through the foundation. I'm involved with wellness on side as well through Jack Knowles. We do a lot of stuff there, some big plans there. I'm an ambassador up at Edgeill University as well, so I get to do all the talks up there for the students and the staff. So yeah, I keep it, I keep it as busy as I can.

SPEAKER_05 11:52

Yeah, and then obviously you you released your book, Keep It Quiet, the Chris Kirkland story. Was that a tough decision?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Uh not in the end, no. I mean, I I was asked to do one a few times over the years, but I've always said no because this my career was okay, but it was nowhere near to the levels of others, and I thought, can I lose and read that? So but then with with everything that's happened, obviously with the addiction and the and the mental health stuff, I thought you know, I thought, yeah, it's the right time to do it now, and it's the best thing we've ever done. The response has been amazing, the feedback's been great, and yeah, and it and it also is a constant reminder for me as well, not go back to those days. But I'm just yeah, somebody that just like a lot of people fell down the wrong path and got addicted very quickly. People are trying to do more now to help people, particularly around the you know, the mental health side, the well-being and and the addiction side of stuff. Looking at what you lot are doing now, if you didn't do this, I'm sure you're helping so many people. So, yeah, I've always said that if people always talk a good game, but it's the ones that actually do something about it that are the ones that are worth the weight in gold. People always say gonna do this, gonna do that, and they never do it, they'll still talk. Um, but if you're gonna if you want to do something and try and help people and make a change, do it. Yeah, it's great to see what you've doing, and there's there's loads more like that. Everyone always starts off the same, doesn't it? You want to help everyone and change the world, but it's impossible. Yeah. But if you can just do as much as you can to try and help, like I've say the the saying it only helped one, it is it's true. If you can stop one person from dying, from overdosing, from committing suicide, then so you helped launch the take care initiative around substance awareness.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Yeah, so I got uh so it's through the uh UEFA. So we went out to Geneva. Uh my daughter actually came with me as well. So yeah, they're gonna they're trying to do that within football, but also within communities as well. So a lot of football clubs uh help their communities as well. So yeah, it's just around substance abuse, around the mental health, you know, obviously my journey. So it was an amazing event, and and they're public, they're gonna roll that out across you know all the football clubs, all the grassroots teams as well, all over Europe and the world as well, if possible. So yeah, it was an amazing event. Um, I wasn't the only one that spoke of it, but yeah, they've got they've got players that have fallen down that path uh that the hope will uh prevent other players and communities, people in those communities um from going down that same path. So yeah, it was a what it was it was a brilliant event, yeah, wonderful out in Geneva. You've got you know, as you can imagine, the headquarters out there are just incredible. And me and my daughter had a brilliant time.

SPEAKER_05 14:11

So, do you think it's still seen as a weakness in sport to ask for help?

SPEAKER_03 14:15

I always come back to it that I think some players are probably conscious of it that they might lose their place and stuff like that. But again, I'll come back to it. It's I think people's more worried about the reaction of other people because there's just some idiots in the world, isn't there, that just take fortune from seeing people struggle, and no matter what you say or do, they'll always find criticism with that. So I think a lot of people are conscious of that. Social media is just a 95% of it is a poisonous place, and that's why I'm on it. I was never on it when I played because I was thinking you know, I don't, you know, you get abuse, and I can see some players checking the social media and they're getting abused for this and that, and it affects them. So I was never on it when I played. I come on it after for this for this kind of reason. So it has got a place for it, but yeah, you've got to be very careful.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

Correct, yeah. What does recovery look like for you now?

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Day to day, just day to day. I don't like to think too far in front. I'm uh I'm as confident as I can be because I've got a great wife, great daughter, great friends and family around us. But yeah, it's just day-to-day, it's just not getting too far ahead, and obviously always remembering not to go back and the feelings and the thoughts and what it did, not just to me, but to you know the family as well. So, yeah, that's my focus just day today and making sure that I never go back on them.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Yeah, and then just one final question. What would you say to a young Chris today?

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Oh, a lot, man. Yeah, a lot. If you talk around this, obviously, you know, I I wish I would have spoken up in 2012. So yeah, the biggest regret is not not telling people the real truth. It took me 10 years, and we all have regrets, and people say you should never have them, but everyone's got regrets, and and that is my biggest, biggest one. Yeah, and over the 10 years, there were many times where I wanted to and said, right, today's the day, today's the day, today's the day, and it just never happened. But yeah, now it has done, thankfully. But yeah, I wish I would have told myself back then in 2012.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Well, Chris, thanks very much for your for your time today, and thanks very much for coming on. You know, it's an amazing journey and all the best in everything that you're gonna do going forward.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Same to use as well, keep doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

Yeah, one last question. What do you think about Arsenal winning the league?

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Well, listen, the best team over the course of the season wins it. Didn't want them to win it, I must admit.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Every episode, we speak to someone who has made the courageous decision to change their lives and start their recovery journey at Ark House. Admitting you need help, facing your struggles, and taking control of your life takes dedication and guts. Today, someone who made that decision and has recently walked back out of the doors of Ark House to start a new life. It's a pleasure to welcome this week's recovery graduate Alex. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah, not too bad, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Are you ready for our quick fire questions?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, ready as I'll ever be.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Age?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I'm 27.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Where are you from?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Uh I'm originally from Sheffield, relocated to Scarborough.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

What brought you to Ark House?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Uh Cocaine, really. Brought me to Ark House. Um cocaine and alcohol, you know, it became unmanageable.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

How long were you struggling with addiction?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Probably for about 10 years, you know. First couple of years I didn't realise because the consequences weren't as, you know, I could manage, just about manage the consequences. But this weren't my uh first rehab, you know. I did I did two rehabs before. I've been in our house before, and I struggled with um, you know, not being able to have a drink again. That was a big thing for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Coming clean time.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Just coming up to 60 days.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

So let's go back in time. When did you realise addiction had got a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Probably about five years ago. Five years ago, I think that's when I really started to understand that I'd got a problem. You know, it started off weekends, you know, the usual, the usual story. Um, aren't we mates and pub and and I was always attracted to that, you know. I used to um I used to love it before, you know, going up pub, you know, meeting my friends, and uh and then I found cocaine, you know, after that first kit where away we go. You know, I absolutely loved it. You know, I'd be lying if it said it didn't. But after a few years, you know, cocaine weren't doing to me what I wanted it to do to me. And that's when progression got really bad. Become in debt with drug dealers and mum and dad noticing and losing jobs and and and just just really struggling to function as a normal adult, you know. Basic things like you know, getting a shower and uh, you know, become become massive tasks. Yeah, I'd probably say around five years ago is when I really started to notice and I've got a serious problem.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

With a clever head now, can you look back and see how things started to spiral?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah, yeah, I can definitely. I think it started when I when I you know I I recognised it actually. I didn't want to be art, I didn't want to be around my friends, you know, I wanted to go home and I wanted to be on my own and I wanted to isolate, you know, and I wouldn't share my drugs with anyone, and that weren't me at the beginning, you know. I couldn't get away quick enough. I didn't want to be out, you know, I started to get paranoid, I had anxiety, and it were never enough. I never had enough drugs on me, you know, never had enough on me, even though I had a lot on me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

I'm guessing like most of us in addiction, the consequences some paled up.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah, yeah, 100%. You know, I've been in thousands and thousands of pounds worth of debt, into tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, you know, with drug dealers and and not only drug dealers with loans, you know. I used I used I got a lot of payday loans, and um, you know, I didn't care about consequences because, you know, all I cared about were where I'm gonna get that next fucking bag of cocaine from. That's literally what my life was like for nine or seven years, you know. Even in the early days when I were, you know, still functioning, still working. That's that's all that were on my mind. I w I were always irritable, always restless, discontent, as the book says. Without that in my pocket, you know, I couldn't do normal things, you know, I couldn't go shopping, I couldn't go out with my girlfriend, you know. I didn't want to I didn't want to be around. I could do it, you know, if I had if I had drugs in my pocket, you know, it'd take me anywhere. You know, I could sit in a library for 24 hours with drugs in my pocket. But that's that, you know, that's how sad it were, and that's how bad it got for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

All of our rock bottoms are different. Did you have a rock bottom moment that made you find recovery?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Life went downhill very quickly. I lost everything, you know. I lost my girlfriend, I lost erm, I lost my job, I lost money. You know, I weren't even turning up to appointments for for for for necessities, for money that I didn't even need to do out for. I needed to answer the phone, I couldn't answer the phone. You know, I was isolated in my bedroom, paranoid, borderline, schizophrenic, I think. That's how bad it got. And uh I would just sat there and I thought, Jesus, you know, how have I ended up here again? And pride nearly got me because you know I nearly didn't I didn't I nearly didn't reach out. I just thought, you know, now it's gonna work, you know, I've done it now, I've done two rehabs, you know, what the what am I gonna do with you? But somewhat got me, you know, somebody told me to pick that phone up.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

So you said about having paranoia and that for the listeners that might not know what paranoia is, what does that what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

For me, you know, but it started off, you know. I heard people talking about paranoia when it comes to cocaine, and I thought, well, the only way I don't get paranoid on cocaine. And but I were, you know, I was paranoid in my relationships, you know. It slowly, progressively it started. I were paranoid, you know, what's she doing? What's this, what's that? And and I thought that was normal, obviously not normal. But that's how it started off, and then it progressed to you know, isolation, which I didn't think were through paranoia, but it were, it were through, you know, how I looked while I were in a pub or how I how I felt when I were in a pub, and you know, our tents and and things like that, and then eventually, you know, it got to the stage where I you know I'd be in my bedroom and I'd I remember one night, they were I thought they were an infestation of moths, and I could see moths and I would turn it light on and off. And there were spiders coming over from top of my I don't know if that was sleep deprivation and paranoia, but curtain twitching and thinking someone's coming for me, and it was just an absolute worse than a living nightmare. But no matter what I did, that even that couldn't stop me, it just didn't stop me, you know. I'd eventually get some sleep and wake up and you know, I'd forget about that because that's what my mind does, you know. It weren't that bad. You just had it bad, you know. You know, just just have two this time, two bags instead of one, and it just seeped into I were either paranoid or irritable, restless, and discontent, and that was my life. That was my life indefinitely, and that's what I thought I was always gonna be until I ever died, or you know, overdosed or I don't know, attack, or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Do you remember arriving and walking through the doors?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah, yeah, I can remember. I had a feeling of dread, you know, at the beginning. In the first few days, I thought I can't do this, you know, I can't do this again. Um, you know, when I got in, you know, I got an arm around me straight away, you know, and the love of this show here to is it's unbelievable, you know. Because I thought in my head, in my, you know, when when I'm sick and when I'm in the sickness, my head'll tell me, you know, they're gonna be talking about me, they're gonna be thinking, oh, he's back again, fucking wasting his time. And and I weren't, I would genuinely and and and and I'd think to myself, you know, they're gonna think, you know, he's just a piss tech, he's doing it for um, he's doing it to appease his parents or not, but it it were me this time, and that was a major decision, I think. It was me who wanted to come this time. You know, I'd lost everything. And I wanted to stop, and that and that was massive for me.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

What part of rehab would you say had the most impact on you?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I'd probably say my you know, my step four, my step five, because I uh I left some art last time, something major actually, through embarrassment and and pride. And uh, you know, it says be fearless in that, and you really do need to be. That's massively important, you know. Pride will kill you, and um it nearly did kill me. So second time round when I come, you know, I got that. Once I got it out, I felt so much lighter that I actually shared it in a in a in a share of mine. And uh there were a few people that come up to me afterwards and said, I were gonna leave some out of my step four. No, no I'm not now a Virgil, you know. So that so that that filled me with a lot of love and uh a lot of gratitude for um for my higher power and and gratitude for myself really because uh I didn't think I were ever gonna tell anyone that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yeah, I can really relate to that, like leaving things out of the um step four and that, you know, yeah, be feel I could you know I found it so difficult to like just sit there and look at myself, you know, never mind share it with another person, you know. So because I I want being honest and that, you know, I ended up picking up again until I got fully honest, you know. It's just amazing what let you know they say secrets keep you sick, don't they? How true that is, especially like you know, coming out of addiction. If people listening are struggling to come to terms with the fact they may need rehab, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I'd say it's normal. And and and like I say, I always go back to your gut, always go with your gut because I feel like that's that that that you know that's uh someone else talking to you that, you know, it's not your mind because I think your mind's you know, we all know your mind is the problem. It's really difficult, you know. I'm not I'm not gonna say it's easy to make that step, but all I can say is the gifts of my life now at the minute that that that I'm being given through through reaching out and doing that. You know, it takes a bit of courage to do. You know, get to a meeting, you know, an A meeting, maybe one, you know, just drag yourself there. Uh I always said, you know, I I'd I'd go for my drugs, so if I can't get to one meeting, you know, I can, I can, I can do it. You know, and if you don't get there at the first day, don't don't think right, oh I didn't go and you know, try again tomorrow. And if you don't get there tomorrow, try again next day and you'll get to one, you know. And as for rehab, you know, it's it's it this rehab is it's fucking it's amazing, you know, it's absolutely amazing, this rehab. It was the best decision I ever made in my life. And I had to come a second time to get this drilled into me. And you don't need to do that, you know, relapse doesn't need to be part of your story. If you think you're ready to stop and you want to stop when you make that step yourself, you know, not to please anyone else. Don't do it to please anyone else, you know. Do it when you're ready, and um the best decision you have to make, I'm sure of it.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

As we know, leaving rehab is another huge milestone in the journey of recovery. How is it for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, very strange. I've I've never ever lived on my own, so I'm actually enjoying it. It is stressful, and still get days, you know. You know, I'm not perfect, and sometimes my old behaviours do come out, definitely, but you know, I've got a programme to work, and what they set you up with here, to go out with there, you know, the spiritual toolkit you've got and and and the connections you've got, you know, to pick up the phone and ring someone, you know, people will help you. This fellowship will love you. And if you can't love yourself, this fellowship will love you, let me tell you. You know, I'm doing two or three meetings a day because I want to do two or three meetings a day. You know, I'm not doing them to to stay clean and sober, I'm doing them because I enjoy them, and that that that for me is an absolute miracle. A miracle, yeah. And I'm up, which is this is a miracle in itself. I'm up at about six o'clock every day. I can't believe it. You know, I used to be a one-two roll out of bed. I was smashed the ground that much that I did what I was told this time, you know, and that and that put to me that that's really important. So I just do it and it it's just like washing my face or brushing my teeth, you know. And then my day from there, it depends what I'm doing. Like today, this is gifts of recovery, you know. I've been asked to come and do a podcast, you know. And I I six weeks ago I were a you know, a degenerate drunk drug addict who who you know couldn't even carry himself to the toilet. And um and today I'm sat here, you know, talking to you guys and hopefully helping someone out there that that that might be going through the same thing that I'm going through. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

What's the reaction been like from those close to you?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah, it's been good. Yeah, it's been I'm not gonna lie, it's been a very nice feeling, you know. You know, I'm in contact with people who I didn't think I were gonna be in contact with, you know, telling me, you know, how well I look and uh you know how how good it's been and how well I've done, and it's such a nice feeling than then to be disappointing people and and letting people down, and you know. Um yeah, it's quite it makes me quite emotional actually. Um it's it just yeah, it gets to me and it's uh it's really nice to see. And um, you know, I've got real friends today. I've got real friends today, which I don't think I ever had. You know, it's a lot better than what we're doing. So yeah, I'm loving life at the minute. Don't you feel?

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Recovery really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it? Like, I understand what you're saying about you know the friend, the friend situation and that, like, in recovery we've got like friends for life. I mean, I turned up in meetings and that, do you know what I mean? Hanging out my fucking ass, do you know what I mean? Fucking stinking and full of shame, fear, and probably still stinking of alcohol and off me nut, do you know what I mean? But they fucking welcomed me in, put their arms around me, made me a bro, do you know what I mean? And all I want is for me to get well. I mean, who does that? I've never known that kind of you know, humanity, it's beautiful, isn't it? Like, you know, and the and they give you telephone numbers, you know. Honestly, that you make friends for life, you know what I say, don't you? There's no strangers in the meetings, just friends you haven't yet yet met yet.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

100%.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Right. Are you ready for the final quick fire questions?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Meditation or sports?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Ooh, well, you got me there. Um I'll say meditation.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Step four or step nine? Step nine. A hobby you have started or dream of trying in recovery.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Do you know what? I want to go into uh dramatics. Yeah, that that's something I'd love to do. Yeah, it's a strange one. I've been acting all my life, you know. Acting like a drug addict, so you know, it'd be lovely to do it properly. So yeah, that that that that'd be a dream of mine, yeah. Acting.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

One thing you were proud of recently?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Getting back into contact with you know with my nephew and and and them sort of trusting me to you know to come there and and and yeah, that that's something I'm really proud of, yeah, definitely. One thing you were grateful for today? One thing I'm grateful for today is to be clean and sober, definitely. Without a doubt. You know, I can have good days, bad days, but you know, when I put my head on that pillar at night, if I ain't had a drink or a drug, you know, it's it's been a really good day. So yeah, I'm grateful for that today.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

And finally, if you could give a younger Alex some advice, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Grow up. No, you know, it'd be um have a little bit more belief in what you can achieve, I think. Definitely. Because I didn't think I could achieve this, and just with a bit of hard work and a bit of willingness and and and a surrender to the fact that I am the real deal. I'm a drug and alcoholic, a drug addict, an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. You know, I've come to accept that now, and yeah, and open your ears, Alex. That'll be another one, yeah. Listen, listen. Yeah, that'll be it.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Thanks so much for joining us and keep doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Thank you, it's been a pleasure.

unknown 29:26

Recovery.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

Connection, hope, achieving goals, having fun. All these things that our guest today has made sure you get when you enter the recovery games. Since the first Recovery Games in 2013, this annual event celebrating the achievements of people in recovery from drug and alcohol addiction has grown into a national fixture, attracting participants from across the UK and beyond. The founder is someone who knows all about addiction and recovery. Using his lived experience to help others is a key part of his journey. So it's a pleasure to welcome to the podcast Neil Fairbank. Hi there, Neil. And hi there, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

It's been uh quite a journey driving here today, to be fair, just lots of thoughts are throughout my career, the amount of people I've referred on to this place, and I've never actually been, so I just wanted to put myself in that in that place of what people must have felt driving here. So it was, yeah, really interesting journey, really.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

And from what I hear from people who have been, the first recovery games is something people never forget. One of the team here at Arkhaus said it was proof that he could actually have fun in early recovery.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

Yeah, and that's that's kind of what we wanted to do, really. I mean, I I wish I could take all the credit for coming up with the format of the recovery games, but the the idea really came from a lot of the people that I was working with at that time and what gaps we felt was missing within their with their recovery. Lack of connection, lack of purpose, we don't know where to go, we don't feel comfortable when we do go to those spaces that are already there, and we've forgotten how to have fun. Yeah, that was the ingredients basically. It it was I felt purposeful in my role then to try and do something with that and started working with the idea about the uh the recovery games.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

We'll obviously get back to the recovery games, but first some quick fire questions. So, current age? Uh 48. When did addiction start for you?

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Around about sort of 12, 13, 13 year olds, so yeah, really quite young.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

Was there a substance that ended up ruling you? Uh heroin. How long would you say you were in active addiction? Uh about eight years. And your current clean time?

SPEAKER_04 31:31

I'll be approaching my 25th year next year.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Congratulations, so just to delve a bit deeper, I read that things escalated to a 200 pound a day heroin addiction. How did things get to that?

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Um, I I don't know. I mean, I I guess my I went from being really anti-drugs. I know I sort of said I started at at 12 year old, but I don't know. I I just I just weren't, it weren't something that interested me. I never really wanted to smoke, I never really wanted to to drink, but there was it was very prevalent, I guess, in the area that I um that I grew up. For me, my drug use escalated really fairly quickly from not wanting to try drugs to I want to try whatever is out there on the market, and and I did my best to try and source some of those to the point where I was dealing drugs at 15 at school and I eventually progressed into selling heroin and crack cocaine.

SPEAKER_05 32:20

Wow, so I mean at my uh my experience is that you know I didn't take a lot of substances. The only the only drug I fell in love with was cocaine. So what made you fall fall in love with heroin?

SPEAKER_04 32:31

You know, looking back and I felt that I didn't necessarily belong anywhere or belong within my own skin. I didn't know who who ha who I were. I tried various substances and and they they filled a small part of that. But the first time I tried heroin, it was like I've found it.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

I'm guessing, like all of us though, after a while it wasn't such a comfort blanket for you.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Um I mean, I I was quite a bizarre heroin addict, I guess. Is that and I was almost quite functional. So I kept down work, I had a professional job, I you know, I worked in sales, I I drove to work in a suit, and and funnily enough, drug use was rife in the environment I work, but most of them were cocaine and amphetamines. I must have been the only heroin. And when I when I first started, so this is sort of mid to late 90s, there weren't really anybody to look at. So there weren't the homeless population that we see now in the town centres, there weren't sort of your local drug addicts where you you would look and think this is where I I may end up. I I probably knew two other people in my entire little mining village that used heroin and they looked completely fine. So I just it escalated from from weekends to to to daily. I didn't even really realise that I had a problem until I went on holiday without any. It was only a few days away um in sort of North Wales, and all I wanted to do was bump into that small circle of friends, bump into middealer. I then became physically sick, and um I was yeah, I was ended up to a point where I was I was hawking the drugs in in a in a in an area that I didn't even know. That that moment of desperation, scraping around in a in a place I didn't know to find some was a was a real out.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

Um I had a few moments of desperation. Um sitting in a car for many hours just sniffing cocaine, realizing that I wasn't part of this world at that moment in time, and I wanted to be taken away, and I guess that's what cocaine did for me. So so when did the light go on? And how did you go about changing your life?

SPEAKER_04 34:22

That I mean, the the only drug and alcohol service when it was the even drug and alcohol services, then it was the drug service was eight miles away. The first time I presented there was the day after I tried to throw myself off a railway bridge, which I didn't feel listened to, was totally misunderstood. Um, I was told to come back in 18 months because that's when the way how long the waiting lists were, and more or less they're there. Here's a sticky plastic. We all feel a bit sad sometimes. Come back in 18 months. Um, I never had the money to even get eight miles, so if you wanted to go and try the service again, it it you were walking that that that that space. And then a local service opened and I was forced to attend group work because that was the only way you could get to see a doctor, you had to attend at least six sessions. I went, all intentions just to go through the motions, say what I needed to say to get onto um a methadone prescription, and there was there was there was somebody there that had actually had lived experience. That was the first time I'd I'd sort of experienced that within a treatment setting, and and and a seed was planted, I guess. And I think seeing somebody, you know, uh a little bit further on from me just gave me that belief that I'd lost that you know maybe this was my lot, and maybe I could try um something a little uh a little different. Following that, unfortunately, and my granddad was very close to me, passed, and I made a promise to him in the sort of the chapel of rest that you know if I got this methodone prescription that this was gonna be my last um attempt to do it, and yeah, I did. I did.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

Yeah, that's amazing. So let's fast forward to when you got involved with what then became the recovery games. For those listening and they have no idea what you're talking about. Give me a quick rundown of what they are.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Yes, I always struggle with this one because there is just so much um happening um on the day, but it's it's it it's it surrounded itself with nostalgia. So it's one of those events that we all loved when we were when we were growing up. So it's a knockout used to be on TV, ultimate wipeout, the old garas that you went to with your family. And so we wanted an event that incorporated all those events. So a bit of competition, bit of connection, some some live, uh, some live music, creative spaces for people to explore and have conversations and and and feel safe to do so. So that is what the recovery games is. Ultimately, it's a it's a tournament of 40 teams with people in recovery competing in a it's a knockout type tournament in a festival um environment. And you know, I've worked in recovery settings for for a long time, and you know, we we talk about the doom and gloom and the hard work of recovery, and and it is it you know, it will be the hardest sort of battle that somebody will ever have to face. So I just wanted to bring some light to that, really. You know, let's if there's gonna be a light at the end of the tunnel, let's make it as bright and as colourful and as loud as we as we possibly can.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

So I have some stats for the last year's games. There were over 800 people taking part, more than a hundred volunteers and thousands of family members. Let's go right back to the start and the first one. What was that like?

SPEAKER_04 37:19

The first year, I mean, bearing in mind I've been told it wouldn't work. So I had all this, you know, that really fed into my element of sort of self-doubt and self-worth, and you know, you failed at lots of things before. It really fed into that. But then it also it also fuelled me. So it took me another year to kind of get the money together and and and and build on the idea. But that very first ever one, as well, that when we we were setting up, I were there at six in the morning, you know, putting up some of the equipment, and it was thundering and lightning. And I'm like, oh my god, I've just wasted three grand of public money, and no one's gonna come. Everyone was right, you are a fool, Neil. And then it was just last time in a Hollywood movie. That the sky broke, a sun ray came, and a minibus pulled up, and a coach pulled up, and then a number of cars pulled up. And before you know it, we had just shy of 300 people there um competing. So I think it was about 16 teams um in total, just from sort of Doncaster, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, um, Rotherham, sort of surrounding uh surrounding areas, and then each year it is gradually just grown a few hundred here and there. I mean, I'm I'm a massive believer that I think recovery, you find recovery outside of your comfort zone. That sense in it in itself of people attending is an achievement. You know, you've overcome something and then and you've you've been blown away by the disbelief of what those feelings, what those feelings were. So that's that was the that was the hope for it, I guess. A side of this was you know, I want you to get you from behind your desks, out of those group rooms, you know, behind your prescription pad, and just engage with the people that you're working with and their families and their other supporters in a completely different um environment. So it's it the the add-on effect has been there, it's also given the people that we are working with. I've been given a an entirely different perspective of the people that they're working with, and I think that has improved some of those therapeutic relationships. Can you imagine when I try to explain to this to commissioners that I want to I want to I want to play a rave, I want to do a rave for people in early early recovery, and they more or less ran out the door and laughed me out, and it was like that's never going to work. But the more and more you hear people's journeys, that's where it started. You know, that that dancing, that community, and and now you know, one of our partners, one of our directors, he he's got a movement with sort of sober raves in in in in Manchester. And I think these are a really vital, important part for people's recovery that we we can enjoy some of the things that we felt we never could uh again.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Yeah, and like you said, I mean I I stretched myself in recovery, I've tried things that I didn't think I would like. You know, I play paddle every every Saturday. You know, I I love it, it's getting me out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Yeah, I mean, I again from my own personal experience, and I could quite happily sit within my my comfort zone, but where what I found is it shrugged. So if I didn't continuously push myself to step out step outside of it, then you know that's that's where I felt my personal personal growth were. So forcing myself into doing things that I probably would never would have done. And the recovery games is almost an experiment of people coming and pushing their own personal growth. I mean, some of the activities out there are beyond what people would have ever have engaged in on it in a team level.

SPEAKER_05 40:15

So and for people listening who want to be part of a team and take part, what do they have to do?

SPEAKER_04 40:21

We we have places for 40 teams, the the criteria is very loose. Basically, you have to be in recovery, have lived experience, living experience, supporting somebody in in recovery. You don't necessarily need to be from a recovery service, you could be a peer support group. As long as your main focus is around supporting recovery, then you fit the criteria.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

And you're also looking for volunteers to help on the day?

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Yeah, so each year we really, really do struggle with volunteers. And and and I get it, everybody wants to take part. I'd love to take part. I did try one year to take part, and that's just my the way my head works to take part and manage the day. Didn't work very well at all. So, yes, this year we we are we are aiming for around 120 to 150 volunteers. So, yeah, so big shout out if anybody would like to volunteer. Yeah, and uh there we go. But if you if you can't make it into a team, you can't volunteer, you can't volunteer, we we still accommodate an awful lot for those that not haven't. So there is live music throughout the day. We've got top artists, we've got two stages this um this year. Um yesterday we've just announced our community hope hub um arena, so we've put out a massive shout out there. So as well as we are celebrating and launching that, we are now a lived experience recovery organization. We want to do that alongside all our compadres. So, you know, we've we've put a shout out across the UK to anybody that wants to come along and we're gonna form this community hope hub uh full of those lived experience uh social enterprises as well. And what's the dream for the recovery games? You know, I was I I went from you know, within the space of say 15 years living homeless need to being flew over to Vienna to talk about this at the United Nations as a community impact event. We had lots of interest from European countries, we had a Texas drugs uh judge that wants us to uh do something over there. So who knows, I guess. The uh the the world's our uh the world's our oyster.

SPEAKER_05 42:08

Well, it's been amazing to have you on the podcast, Neil. And I know we'll definitely have a team competing. Just to remind everyone, it's on the 13th of September, and I know you're always keen to hear from people who may want to help with funding. And of course, anyone who wants to volunteer or take part. What's the best way to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Uh currently just for follow our socials, I guess. So we're on all the social platforms, uh, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Um, so we're gonna be keeping obviously that up to date with the most relevant information, and that's where people will find out particularly about you know, we've got our artists to book. We're gonna be putting a shout out for lived experience artists shortly as well for our community stage. So yeah, just just keep an eye on the socials. We're we're we keep them up to date and watch out for the website being launched. Thanks, Neil. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

The team at Ark House will definitely be entering. So if you are ready for battle, make sure you follow Recovery Games on socials to find out more.

SPEAKER_05 43:10

Thanks to Neil, Chris, and Alex for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

We are back next week with a member of one of the Nance's biggest story bands, Jimmy from Nan Mon Mom.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

If you or your loved ones are struggling with addiction issues, then please know you are not alone. Reach out to Ark House today!