IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast - S2 EP 6 - Feat DAVID SCHAAL (The Inbetweeners)

Welcome to a special episode of IN RECOVERY - THE ARK HOUSE PODCAST, to coincide with Alcohol Awareness Week in the UK 

Alcohol Awareness Week 2026 takes place from 6–12 July, spearheaded by the charity Alcohol Change UK. The 2026 theme is 'Alcohol and me', encouraging you to pause, reflect on the role alcohol plays in your life, and explore how it affects your overall health.

IN RECOVERY - THE ARK HOUSE PODCAST is thrilled to be named one of the Best Podcasts by The Sunday Times (June 2026) and is riding high in the charts, as we continue our second season.  We are so grateful to everyone for their support. If you are listening on Apple - we would love you to leave us a review.

IN RECOVERY is a companion guide for those on their addiction recovery journey. We also want to offer advice and support for those still suffering and offer solutions for those who just want to know more. This is a well-being podcast produced and presented by people with lived experience who want to carry the message of recovery.

For this special episode we speak to two people who have battled with alcoholism and the Executive Director Alcohol Change UK. 

DAVID SCHAAL is a British actor who is best known for his role as Jay's Dad in The Inbetweeners and for playing Taffy in The Office. He speaks to us about his journey with alcoholism and several other addictions that ended up destroying certain parts of his life. 

Former resident of Ark House KAREN comes back to Ark House Rehab years after she came here to get sober. These vital conversations are to help anyone listening who also may be finding the recovery journey tough. We want to give you the support and inspiration to keep strong.

We are also joined by JOE MARLEY from Alcohol Change UK who speaks to us about this week's aim alongside their End the Delivery Trap campaign which is pushing for mandatory safety pauses, age and intoxication checks, and self-exclusion options to curb the harms associated with round-the-clock alcohol.

ALCOHOL CHANGE - More information on their website 

https://alcoholchange.org.uk/

PLEASE LEAVE US A REVIEW if you enjoyed this episode and the series. 

SAM AND RICHARD - THE HOSTS

Are both in recovery themselves and so have lived experience of alcoholism and addiction. 

If you or a loved one need help from addiction, please know there is help. Reach out and speak to Ark House today....

PHONE 01723 371869

EMAIL info@arkhouserehab.co.uk

ADDRESS 15 Valley Road, Scarborough, Y011 2LY

WEBSITE www.arkhouserehab.co.uk

FACEBOOK  @arkhouserehabltd

INSTAGRAM @in_recovery_podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Welcome to a special episode of the ARK House Podcast in Recovery.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

It's Alcohol Awareness Week in the UK, which is a national campaign to help people reflect on their drinking habits.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Come and not we speak to a professional in the recovery community and get another inspirational story from a former resident of ARC House. This week, Karen.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

We're also joined by some of the country's biggest dollars. Today, recognisable to many for playing J Stelling in-betweeners, actor David Shao joins us to speak about his journey.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

At House Rehab has helped thousands of people suffering from alcoholism over the years, and we want to carry the message of recovery around the world with this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Welcome to In Recovery. Every episode we speak to someone in the spotlight who has faced a battle with addiction and has kindly given up their time to share their story in a hope it will help others. Today, an actor, director, screenwriter and comedian known to millions for two iconic roles on British TV, he played Taffy in the Office and Terry Cartwright for Dal of J in The In Between Us. It would take a whole episode just to list his other credits. But alongside his career, he has suffered from anxiety, depression, love addiction and alcoholism from the age of 14. After finding the solution through the fellowship, he is now on his recovery journey, celebrating many years of being clean and sober. We are all about breaking the stigma of addiction on this podcast, so it's a pleasure to welcome David Sharle to In Recovery. Hello, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Uh thank you. That was some introduction. I'm I'm very well, thank you. Uh I've just been playing walking football for two hours, and it's part of my routine for good mental health. Wow. Since I've been in recovery, all the other addictions rear their heads as well. You know, I've had love addiction, sex addiction, food addiction. Anything that's going, I can get addicted to it. So I just I have to really watch myself, and I I find that finding balance in my life, exercise plays a huge part of that, and forcing myself to go out as well and not just stay at home with the curtains drawn, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Don't pick up a paddle racket.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Is it addictive?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Oh my god, yes. So let's start with the two most iconic shows on TV. How does it feel to be part of the office and the in-betweeners?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

I'm asked this question a lot, as I'm sure you can imagine over the years. And the word that I use the most is lucky. I mean, you know, I left drama school, I struggled to get work like every other actor. I did The Bill, then I did uh London's Burning, you know, these old series that used to provide fantastic work for people. And then I slowly build up TV credits, then The Office came along. Of course, nobody knows how big it's gonna be. And I originally auditioned for the part of Finchie, and I met Ricky Gervaise and we had a laugh because he had his own chat show. And the first person he interviewed was Michael Winner, the now deceased, legendary, awful film director who used to shout at everybody. And then anyway, I didn't get Finchie, but I got the part of Taffy, you know, the rest is history. I I remember very well doing that scene in the warehouse, my dog shagging his dog scene, you know. And and I just thought it was hilarious, but I had no idea it was going to become so big, you know. I think I got the in betweeners based on that character in the office, because Jay's dad is kind of a bit similar to Taffy, you know. So I I think Ian Morris and Damon Beasley, the writers of the in betweeners, are mates with Ricky. So they obviously liked my character and and cast me as Jay's dad. It it never went to my head because the minute that that show was over, you know, the in-betweeners, the minute that was over, I was scrapping around for work again. You know, we didn't make the millions that the kids made. Well, I'm assuming they made millions, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

So if you turn back the clock, when did addiction start for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Do you think it's a really good question? I've I've often wondered, you know, I was kind of left to do my own thing quite a lot. So I think we started drinking cider outside the shops. You know, that was probably even younger than 14. I started to like it a bit too much. Before I knew it, alcohol was kind of like a crutch, you know, it used to make me feel confident and better with girls, and yeah, and I then I got into punk rock music, and the drink culture was really part of that whole punk rock scene. And it was great fun for a great many years. It was great fun. And then, you know, then I ended up at drama school, and um, we had a big tragedy before I went to Rose Bruford, which is down in Sickup, one of my brothers died. Um, bless him, he was only 17, he died from an epileptic seizure, and uh and then I drank a lot on that. I went from beer to bottles of wine, and then I drink carver by the gallon. And I remember in my late 20s, I w I went to this um Bastille Day celebration. Uh it was like a 12-course meal, and we had like a bottle of wine with every meal, and I blacked out. And the next thing I remember is laying face down in a load of glass and my Ben girlfriend looking up at me, shaking her head. So she was actually very good about it, my ex-girlfriend, but she did say to me, I think you've got a drink problem. And then, you know, I'd go to parties and I was always the first one to like, you know, crash out because I'd I'd I used to drink really quickly, and then I'd do stupid things like I'd go into a kebab shop and get in an argument with with some guy holding a massive kebab knife, and you know, I was just an idiot. But when I was in my late 30s, I'd I'd already tried AA a couple of times. I'd go in and out, in and out, in and out, and that went on for seven years. And then in my late 30s, I got done for drink driving, and that was it. And I was 39 then, and I just thought I can't live like this anymore. You know, I'm not, I don't feel healthy, I don't feel in control of the alcohol. You know, whenever I started drinking, I never knew where it would end up, and blackouts started becoming more and more prevalent, and so I just took it out of the equation. Sounds easy, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

It was it's interesting because when you when you sat with a group of alcoholics who are starting to recover, they start telling stories, don't they? And I used to take calls from mates, are you coming out for a pint? I'm going, no, no, no, we're going out for 10. You know, it was stuff like that, and I think you know, the the consequences at some point in my life started to catch up with me. And you know, I lost my license twice, I lost my first wife, you know, she she left because she couldn't curl with me. And then you go into Achievement Sanadeli, and I'd found that group of people who I could be first honest with, yeah, not judged.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah. And for me, it wasn't just the drinking, it was my personality because everything to me was all about trying to get ahead in my career. So I would, you know, talk about self-will run riot. I was forcing everything, and everything I did was about acting, acting, acting. I didn't give a monkeys about the relationships I was in, really. It was all about forcing that dream through. But before I went to A8, it was completely off the charts. You know, everyone was diagnosing me as an alcoholic, and a friend of mine suggested going to a local meeting. So I went to I went to one in Arlington Road in Camden, and I saw this stuff with God This and God That on the wall, and I was like, oh no, no, no, no. And then I thought, actually, everyone looks so well, you know, all the complexions look really great, and I think it must have been a gratitude meeting because everyone was going about how grateful they are, and then this guy said to me, You're the most important person in the room, and I thought, yeah, I am, of course I am, but you know, that was uh that was because I was a newcomer, so they um they kind of love bomb you a little bit at the beginning to um keep you coming back, but it didn't really work with me to start with because I was like I wasn't convinced I was an alcoholic, you know, classic step one denial. Um so it took me a long time, long painful time, but I was slowly getting the message of AA to kind of like let go, let God, all of that stuff, you know, stop being so self-centered, think about other people. So the program actually kept me going back, and I thought, you know, and I loved all the slogans. They said, um, better to be in the rooms pretending to be an alcoholic than outside pretending not to be. Yeah, yeah. I really loved that slogan, and the absolute ironic thing was the the day that I decided I was giving up drinking, and that and I knew I went to that um So Ho Sober meeting um in London, and I knew I was never gonna drink again. And on that very day, I'd been told that I had a beer commercial in Prague. So my sponsor said to me, Okay, here's what you do you're gonna have to ring up your agent and make sure that you don't have to drink beer. And I said, Well, of course, they're not gonna make me drink the thing. So it turned out I didn't have to drink it, I was drinking alcohol-free lager, but it was Budvar commercial, and the guy I was doing the commercials with was a big drinker, and those commercials went on for two years, and I used to sit watching him get drunk every time we were in Prague, and we'd be over there for a couple of weeks, and we were actually quite famous over there because these were like you know, famous commercials, and we'd get off the play, and everyone would go, Oh, it's Bob and Dave, the Budvar boys. So this was way before the in-between us. And I thought, if I can stay sober through two years of doing beer commercials with a massively heavy drinker, I could I can survive anything. I I can honestly say I haven't had a wistful thought of drink since I gave up this time because I'd spent seven years going out, going out, and I knew that it always got worse, it always got a hold of me. I never knew what the hell I was gonna do. I mean, there are people who ended up in far worse states than I ever did, and who drank far worse than I ever did. But it says in the big book of AA the two things that you need to you know diagnose yourself as an alcoholic is once you start drinking, you can't stop, and the allergy kicks in, and then and then it's on your mind, it's obsession of the mind, so you can't stop thinking about it. And I had both of those things. The obsession of the mind around beer and and carver at the end was so bad that I could I literally couldn't do anything without thinking about alcohol. And I'd I'd go and play five aside and I'd go home and get two bottles of carver, and even even my mate Tony, who's a big drinker, was saying to me, What the fuck are you doing getting two bottles of carver? And I'd go, What? Isn't is that bad? And he'd go, You just played football, shouldn't you be drinking water? So even my big drinker mates were giving me a hard time about the amount of carver I was tucking away, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Like you, I had a moment on the 5th of the 4th, 2020, when I came into treatment, when I came down the back stairs of this place, and whatever happened, I I knew I was not going to take drugs and I wasn't gonna drink again. I just didn't know how to do it. You know, this program taught me how to do it. Drugs and alcohol are many years down the line for me, but you still sat with you, aren't you? You still sat with that addictive behaviour around food, scrolling on bloody phones, wasting hours just oh, just I'll just be five minutes, you know, and you're an hour into just scrolling utter crap. And the biggest thing I see in this is we talk to people about healthy relationships. People get cleaned up, they get a new track suit, they get a new pair of trainers, they have a wash, they put a bit of weight on. All right, I'll have a I'll get a woman now, and everything will be fine. And they say the money and the honey is the two things that take people out.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Romance and finance, those are yeah, those are the two things that you know are are really difficult in recovery to deal with. And I remember people saying to me in meetings, oh yeah, get sober, you can have as much sex as you want, you know, sex sober is great, you know, and I took that to heart and I was thinking, oh yeah, this is great, you know. I can so I I basically swapped one addiction for another, and you know, it wasn't just sex, it was love as well. You know, I'd I'd focus on someone and you know, and go, that's it, that's that's gonna be my big life, you know, project, and that's me sorted, and and you know, and it's it took a long time for me to get that through my thick head, actually, that that you shouldn't act on your feelings, you know, feelings are not facts. So all the time I was getting involved in these high octane relationships and getting off on the high of it, you know, and I think I finally learned that lesson now. It took me to uh, you know, have a wrecked marriage before I figured that out. So, what I do with relationships now is what I did when I first went into AA, which was, you know, you kind of what can you give, not what can you take, what can you give in a relationship, you know, and I for I think as long as I'm thinking in those terms, I'm on safer ground. In the end, it took therapy to make me realize the kind of I don't know, schism in my psyche or what whatever you want to call it. You know, it was actually really helpful to think about my relationship with my mother and all of that stuff. It sounds like an absolute cliche, but it's all about feeling like you need love and and you're sort of going about getting it in the wrong way. In fact, they tell you in Sla, if you feel really strongly attracted to someone, stay away from them. Because that's not a relationship, that's addiction. And uh and that was difficult. I just sort of thought I owe it to myself actually to be the person that I know I am, not this addictive person who hurts people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

So, what does recovery look like for you now? Then obviously you've just come back from walking football.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Well, exercise plays a huge part in it. Uh, I've got a lovely relationship now with someone that's nearly four years, you know, and I I I think I'm really happy, you know. My my health is good. I sort of feel like I've been given another chance. I think that's you know, I just I I have to keep checking myself all the time. I I do go to recovery for that again and deal with that, and that recovery and AA is actually it's very good, keeps me balanced. You know, I've managed to be away from home for the best part of seven weeks and not go crazy. So I must be doing something right. So I I think for me it's quite easy to stay sober now, you know. Now that it's off my head and you know, and I've got so many other things, I've got such a great life as a direct result of getting sober, I think. You know, I dread to think I dread to think what I would even look like if I'd have carried on drinking. I'm probably one of these annoying health freaks. I eat healthily, I I exercise, I I do my spiritual side, you know, I meditate, I go out into nature, I like going by the sea. All of these things keep me grounded and connected.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

So, what would you say to a young David who was just starting off in acting now, starting to have a few too many to drink, that kind of thing? What would the what would the be the advice?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

So, what I would say to my younger self is get sober and stay sober. Because those seven years I spent in and out of the fellowship harmed my recovery, I think, because then the other addictions kicked in. And I think if I'd have stayed off the booze, I would have dealt with those other addictions probably sooner. But you know, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. People say you stay, you get sober when you when you're ready, you know. Yeah, and I guess I just wasn't ready.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, one of the interesting things I've heard at many many meetings is that thing keep coming back. One of my sponsors turned around to me and said, just don't leave. Just don't leave, you know. And and I haven't. And you know, today I live a totally different life to the one I had five, six years ago when I was falling into bushes, creeping around, trying to find a beer from somewhere and stealing and all that kind of stuff that's gone on. You know, today it's beautiful. Today I'm five. It's hard to believe that looking at you. Yeah, I know. Today, I'm 500 metres away from the sea, you know, play paddle on a Saturday. I've got a wife that wants to sit with me and talk to me, and you know, I can accept all I can accept a lot more today. I can I can stay out of the ring when I need to, and yeah, I think it's just a beautiful place to live and be in, but you've got to hit that rock bottom, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

You've got to hit the wrong bottom, and you've also got to really believe that you need to be in the rooms.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah. Well, David, listen, I've taken up too much of your time, and I'd like to say thank you very much. It's been inspiring talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

It's a pleasure to welcome this week's recovery graduate, Karen. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_03 18:44

I'm fine. I'm a little bit tired, but uh I made it back to Scarborough and as I always do felt quite emotional as I walk up those stairs outside there. Yeah, so what is it like walking back up the stairs and coming back to work? It is emotional every single time. I've been back quite a few times here. Just so full of memories. Are you ready for all quick phone questions? Go for it. Oh, 64. Where were you from? Originally grew up in her genetics. What brought you to work, Alvin? My drinking had gotten completely out of control. How long were you struggling with your alcoholism? I think those around me would have probably said quite a long time before I really got to the point of opening up and thinking that I had got a problem. My first admission was real strange. I was trying to park my car and sort of great things next to but one neighbour sort of got reacting to him. Then I said, just blurted out. I think I think I've got a bit of a problem with alcohol. And then he goes to me, come here, and he said, I'm an alcoholic. And I was like, And then he brought his big book around for me to read, but that was so weird. People talk about God incident disease. And I think that was one. I forgot your question. What did you ask me? How long were you struggling with addiction? I was struggling in the terms of struggling for probably about nine months before I came in. And he couldn't clean town over four years.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

Oh, congratulations, that's amazing. So, when do you think your alcoholism started for you?

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Probably the first time when I started drinking, which was like teenagers in village halls, we had bottle parties, and you know, you sort of hide the desider in the toilet assistant in case the police came and all this sort of stuff. My father, a very wise man, thought I had an issue with alcohol when I was about 18 and I just poo-pooed it, obviously, but he thought that things were not right. If you've got that in you, I think like you always are addicted, but you gravitate towards other heavy drinking people. So I always managed to do this and sort of hence like knew a lot of people, you know, that drank far more than I did at that sort of age in your twenties. You do that, you find your sort of your place and it fills that gap.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Yeah, so like when I was younger, um when I first started like experimenting with substances and that, I always ended up being around people that was like me, and I loved it, you know. I've got because I've never fitted in anywhere, but when I started using, like I kind of found my trap and I'd always like kind of blend my way in.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

It's strange when you realise, God, you know, was I like that, was I like that?

SPEAKER_04 21:18

I mean, I was like 15, just turned 15 when I lost my best friend, just to this stuff, you know. She was on it, she didn't just turn 15 herself. So young and so young, like everybody that I kind of got close to, they've ended up dead. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I found it really difficult to like mech them kind of bonds. Yes. As well as being in addiction and alcoholism and that it was just I couldn't even look after myself, to be fair. What kind of consequences did you have to face?

SPEAKER_03 21:46

I said coming in here, I've been through ARC twice because the first time I don't think I dropped far enough down and everything went my way after ARC. Yeah, I became very complacent, let's say. I had the you know, everything was working. Out for me, or I thought it was. I did exactly what you weren't meant to do, and I met someone in ARK, and we didn't have a relationship in ARK because we knew the consequences, but it was all set up to go. So as soon as we got out, well, I went to visit him about a week and a half, two weeks after ARK, and then got pregnant instantly. I was on my own a hell of a lot, even through the pregnancy, because he was back out drinking in a few weeks. So sort of trying to hold it all together. Then I got that. I had this soon after that, I got this job that was a living-in job, and then everything went very wrong with the drink. So I was suspended from that. But then at the same time, social services got involved. My other two kids went to my ex-husband, but he ended up in voluntary foster care. But it wasn't really voluntary, it was like my hand was right up my back. And if you don't, if you don't put him in sign these paperwork now to get him into foster care, then we're gonna start taking court stuff together. So I feel emotional now. I never ever shared about that in meetings because I was also incredibly ashamed. All I had in my focus was get the kids home, get the kids home. But it was hard, and they were all like your driving licensey kids. Uh the things that people call the yet, you know, the first time, you know, oh I'm not as bad as that person, you know, because it hasn't happened to me, but then it did.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

What was the oddest thing about admitting you had a problem?

SPEAKER_03 23:20

All of it, I think, it was the get that sort of it was the sort of humiliation of realising that I've got a problem and couldn't handle it really. And I think I was leading quite a sort of Walter Mittie double lifestyle because I was holding it together. So, you know, I was the sort of classic professional person who had the car I've got the car in the house, and it was things superficially looked okay, but they weren't. But I'd say I'd say, I mean, when my son went to the foster carers, that was like the lowest of low moments, really.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Do you remember arriving and walking through all the doors of our cows? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Yes, very much so. I think it was a bit bewildering, really, and I didn't necessarily see the need for it. I remember talking to someone in the office and saying, Oh, but I haven't had a drink for eleven days. I think they laughed at me. It's that's sort of like, you know, I'm doing okay, and all of that. What helped you most, do you think, in the re-amp process? It was being away from all the pressures around me at home. I think the second time round I was in a very different state. Mentally I wasn't good at all. And I think the group and like learning it all with the lectures, all the lectures. I've still got my folder at home. I've got like my folder with like all the lectures and everything. And I think part of it it's like split in two bits, really, because I think I was just a bit bombed out by the time I got back here eight years later. But the first time, you know, I can remember the councillor and the woman I shared a room with. It was sort of all the people around, really, I think, you know, and probably that sense of fellowship that you know you're not sort of on your own with it.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

So you mentioned getting a relationship and going out and relapsing. How important do you think it is for people listening to about following the rules, do you know, and especially about starting relationships early in recovery?

SPEAKER_03 25:06

I don't think it's a good move. I don't think you've got a very good judgment about people. You need to put your attention on your recovery. I mean, I think I've been very codependent and been out with some very heavy drinkers. So I kind of that was part of it as well. I think. But if I didn't really, I thought about just coming here and stopping drinking. But I think if I thought about the codependent thing and how that's an addiction as well, I think your attention will go to the other person. If the other person starts drinking or using, it's easy to get caught up in it again. And it's different if you've got a relationship before you come in here, obviously, obviously. Although I think quite a few people's relationships probably do split up when one person is still doing that lifestyle and the other person isn't.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

If people listening are struggling to come to terms with the fact that may need rehab, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_03 25:55

I think catching it at the right time and being receptive to it is very important. Because I do think somebody said it to me the first time, I think it was I went too soon, as it were. If you're struggling because of like other pressures, it's a good idea because you can remove yourself. The bad bit is it's a fluffy pink cloud, and then you go back home and you face things when you get back.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

So, what did you do differently the second time you left rehab compared to the first time?

SPEAKER_03 26:20

I think it was a hell of a lot more of an uphill struggle to get things back. Um, and I think I was a lot more aware and aware of the pitfalls and stuff. But I think I I feel like I got more embedded into the fellowship. That's probably the main thing I'd say to know. I didn't always do the right things, but I was a lot more clear about what the path was and sometimes went wobbly but then got back on it again.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

What did you do in your daily routine to help me stay clean and sober?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

What I did, which I still do now, is that I've always done all the readings that you do. So I've got the readings, I've got them on my phone now, not in little books. I try to keep a routine in each day. Gone to the meetings, as I say, it varies, it varies. These days I'm going to a couple online and a couple face-to-face and sort of think if I miss this one, then there'll be another one. But I don't stop going because it's important to hear the message, and because I have gone back out as well. You know, I know how easy it is. You know, it's just so incredibly easy. And sort of you, you know, you suddenly have no routine whatsoever and you miss a load of meetings and something stressful happens in your life.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

So if people are listening that are struggling to come back after having a relapse, what advice would you give to them?

SPEAKER_03 27:33

I'd say avoid slippery places, avoid slippery people, get to meetings because you don't necessarily know that you're going to start drinking. Well, that's happened to me, you know, that literally you don't think, oh, I know what, I'm gonna go out, you know, I'm gonna go and buy a drink. It can almost happen. It's like a switch turns on in your head. It's frightening. But you so all the little things in between, you know, get back to meetings because you meet loads of people that have relapsed.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Get into the present, what does your recovery look like now?

SPEAKER_03 28:03

It looks a lot better than it has done. So I've had a very difficult two or three years with losing a lot of people closer to me. So it even my whole life looks kind of very different to how it looked two years ago. Living on my own now, so it's easy to get feeling a bit down on occasion and stuff like that. I try to make my life quite structured. I try to see somebody socially or have something social every day. You know, my sponsors it's letting go, letting go is important because she used to say, like, you know, I will let go and then I'll be like with an air balloon, sort of like pulling it back again to me. So I want control of things, and being able to kind of give Hanna that control over and think what will be will be is still things that I need to keep work keep working on.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

What's the reaction been like from those close to you?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

People think you've changed. My youngest is he's very, very aware. He's been to Al Anon. It enabled him to sort of see some of it as well, because he was a bit young and a lot of people there are older, but like you know, it's the impact. I think he's very aware of himself as well. And the fact that, you know, if you follow the sort of view that it's all genetic, you know, he's very well, now he's into fitness in a massive way. So he's got you know the complete opposite of this, but he is very aware of things.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Right. Are you ready for the next quick fanny questions? Yes, I'll try not to talk so much. Meditation and sparse. Meditation. Step VAR or step nine. Step nine. A hobby you have started or dream of dragging in recovery. I mean, creative writing.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

One thing you were proud of recently. Did this sponsored walk, even though we didn't get any money for it, me and my youngest. So we walked very slow and we didn't raise money, but we we were there, we were counted.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

If you could name someone who has been a huge inspiration to you, who would it be?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Best friend's mum from when I was a kid. She was wonderful. Welcomed me into the family. One thing you are grateful for today. Grateful. Grateful. My health is much improved.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

And finally, if you could give a younger Karen some advice, what would it be? Oh God.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Um be more aware of who I actually was and myself and not try to change my identity and please other people so much.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

Um thanks so much for joining us, Karen, and keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

This week marks Alcohol Awareness Week, an important campaign run by the charity Alcohol Change. Not only do Alcohol Change carry out vital research, provide support and advice, train professionals and help influence policy, they also run flagship campaigns like this and Dry January to encourage people to re-evaluate their drinking habits and create healthier culture norms. Joining us today, we have Executive Director of Alcohol Change, Joe Marley. So welcome, Joe. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Yeah, I'm good. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Ark House obviously deals with people who have serious alcohol and addiction issues, but it's very important to educate people who don't have addictions. And I guess that's where you come in.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah, definitely. So at Alcohol Change UK, we work right across the spectrum of alcohol harm. So as a charity, we're not anti-alcohol, but we're against all of the harm that it causes. And that's obviously to individuals, to families, communities, and society as a whole. So as you say, it's yeah, of course, the damage is really, really serious for people with alcohol dependency. But we know that there's millions of people who whose drinking is just creeping up and it's having a real impact on their lives drinking at kind of riskier levels. So a big part of what we do is helping people kind of recognize where alcohol is playing a damaging role in their life where it's becoming more and more of a problem. Around 10 million people that are drinking at risky levels. So that's a big part of the work that we do. Fundamentally, we want to change the system. We've grown up in a society where alcohol's really front and centre for a lot of us. There's you know legislation and laws which haven't really kept up to prevent a lot of the harm that we're seeing taking place. So we work right across to hopefully create a happier, healthier country and individuals too.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

So this year's theme of Alcohol Awareness Week is alcohol and me. So tell me a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah, it sounds simple, doesn't it? Alcohol and me. And it kind of is simple. What we really wanted to do with the theme is um encourage people to think about exactly that. So their own relationship with alcohol, but also the impact that alcohol has um more generally on the world around us. We know also that actually thinking about the role that alcohol plays in your life can sometimes be a bit daunting, it can be a bit confronting, depending on where you're at in thinking about the role that alcohol is playing. That's kind of one of the reasons that we wanted to set that theme, because sometimes it's good to feel a little bit challenged or to have a moment to reflect on, you know, whether it's uh whether it's good and in which case fine, or or maybe it's actually starting to play a more negative role. So this year we're particularly encouraging people to take our check your drinking quiz, which is really simple, it's just a couple of minutes, it's private, but it'll give you really good information and insight into the uh impact of alcohol on your life and on your health.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

And I guess as business owners, you do your inventory every year, don't you? So you check whether you've made profit. If you're not up with your stock and you're not up with where you are in your business, your business generally goes bust. And I guess that's the beautiful thing about step four is we are taking people through a personal inventory of their life to say, look, if this continues, this is what it's going to end up like. And I suppose that those few questions that you're asking are provoking those thoughts, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Yeah, exactly. And then if you want to make a change or want to try and put something in place, Alcohol Change UK can really support with that. But it's taking that first step. Uh, and also during this week, listening to other people. Obviously, we're on a podcast, which is a great place to start, different points of view, um, but really kind of demystifying the conversations that we need to have around alcohol and the impact that it has on different people's lives.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, just talking about that impact on people's lives. I mean, I I certainly see in here people suffer from sleepless nights, low energy, increased anxiety, other health issues. I suppose it's it's trying to get to those points where people can realise the impact that it's actually having on their lives.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Yeah, and it's very personal, isn't it? I think to to individuals about where alcohol's having more of a negative impact. Sometimes it might be something that's dramatic or really obvious. Other times it might be something that's a bit kind of in the background or quieter, but maybe it's a niggling feeling that it's actually taking away more than more than it's giving you. All of those things might be motivations for for making a change, but sometimes it's hard to put your finger on alcohol as contributing to that. And I think as a society, hopefully we're starting to be a bit more aware of where alcohol plays into a whole different range of of health and well-being. But it's taking time, I think, for people to join the dots. And that's I guess where where we come in and we really try and help people with that.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Obviously, as a society, you know, alcohol is still glamorized in a lot of ways. You know, we're we're we're in the middle of what will be one of the biggest sporting events this year in the world, World Cup. So I guess there'll be flags out in every bar, people will be drinking, it will become a major part of people's lives up until England get knocked out, and then it'll be carnage. You know, it must be quite difficult in your kind of role to see how you can overcome that glamorisation of alcohol and it's huge.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

You know, big alcohol companies spend hundreds of millions of pounds keeping alcohol in in the spotlight. You know, as I said, we're not an anti-alcohol charity, but it's really difficult to live in the UK, particularly if you're someone who is in recovery, or if you're someone who's choosing not to drink for whatever reason, um, and to be surrounded by marketing, which is kind of everywhere we look, as you say, whether it's sporting occasions, could just be on our way to work on the train or at bus stops. That link between alcohol being something that we use for celebration, commiseration, all those moments throughout our our lives, really difficult to shut out the noise that's there sometimes. I think that's that's really, really hard.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

I find uh, you know, certainly when people leave here and they're in early recovery, I guess it's about fulfilling their life without a substance and finding a new way to live.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, I you know, and we don't work full-time um in recovery, but what I can say from from people that we talk to, people like our community champions who are volunteers with us, is you know, it can be kind of unexpectedly challenging to adapt to a life without alcohol or with l even just with less alcohol in it. It can sometimes feel more lonely without some of those networks or the activities that have been part of your life for a long time, even if they've been harmful, even if you know that it's something that ultimately hasn't been great for your health. But finding something that replaces those feelings that that you've lost or those experiences that you've lost is really important. But I think what I hear from lots of people across our Alcoholic Change UK community is that that time and support helps build more of that clarity and the community that can come. Um so there can be new connections that you make, which is just invaluable. So you've got people who are supportive. That could be friends, it could be family, it could be someone completely different. But just to support you in that next step.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Are you seeing more sober activities out there?

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, definitely. I think there's a big, there's a big scene for that. I still think there's a long way to go to make those everyday spaces more inclusive, full stop. So I think it's brilliant that there are those specific groups for people who are either trying to cut down or alcohol-free longer term. But I'd love to also make sure that those everyday spaces, the the assumption is that uh it's absolutely fine not to drink. And not drinking is completely normal, it's unquestioned, it's not remarkable in any way for whatever reason. So I think both of those things there's a place for, and we need to just keep working at that. If you're someone who's not drinking at all, then it's it's a great opportunity this week to share it with either just on your social media channels or share it with someone who you think um might also benefit from doing it.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Yeah, and then you've also got some top tips for cutting down.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, well, we've got lots on the website again if you're trying to cut down. We also have something called our cutback challenge, which is completely free. Everything we offer from Alcohol Change UK is free. So the cutback challenge is a behavior change experience and a journey that you can take. It's a month-long guided challenge that people take, and the aim being there that you're reducing how much you drink by 50%. We have lots of other things as well. So our WhatsApp tips, which people can sign up to, a Facebook community group, and our Tri Dry app as well, which within that there's lots of things to explore, missions, alcohol-free missions that you can take on. Yeah, so that there's all of that. And I would say that this week it's about trying something and experimenting with something. So test out some of those things I've just mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

And I guess COVID, you know, when it came about was the was the kind of starting of Deliveroo, Uber Eats, Just Eat, you know, all the supermarkets jumped on, and you launched a huge campaign talking about, you know, alcohol on tap, alcohol being able to be delivered so freely and so easily to your doorstep. So can you just remind me, if anybody's not heard about it, what was the campaign all around?

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah, so this is a campaign uh end the delivery trap. So this has been um something that's really yeah gained a lot of momentum through the spring. And it's the issue, exactly as you say, of how easy and how quick it is to have alcohol delivered by lots of those delivery services. But the fact is that actually the regulations that we have around licensing um just haven't really kept up with the modern world. And the worrying thing that we've seen is that it does just make it so much easier for people to order alcohol without as many barriers, without as much friction. So, as you say, in the past it might have been we'd have popped around to a corner shop or to a bar. There would have been more of that face-to-face interaction, partly to do ID checks. Um, and of course, there are ID checks on lots of deliveries, but sometimes those are slipping through the net. But also on intoxication checks, it's really difficult, we know, for delivery drivers to be working in that rapid environment where they're expected to deliver really fast, make difficult judgment calls on the doorstep. Um and we think people are really falling through the cracks on this. We know we've got lots of personal examples that people have shared with us, really, really sad stories of either individuals who have experienced it firsthand or friends and family members where those deliveries have rapidly increased the amount of alcohol that someone is consuming with serious consequences on health. So we know that there's an issue, but we believe that there are lots of solutions. We think that it's reasonable to uh to expect companies to really put robust age verification and intoxication checks. We would also like to limit the hours alcohol can be delivered directly to people's homes. We'd like to see a bit of a pause between someone clicking on their order and then actually delivery of uh alcohol when the order is over a certain amount. That would just slow everything down. It would mean it was less spontaneous and there was just a break there. But also, we would like an exploration of the ways for individuals and family members to block their own access to ordering alcohol on delivery services. This is a topic that comes up a lot for people who are either in recovery or who are really struggling but trying to make that change. Actually, if there was the ability to block access to some of those services when it comes to alcohol, that might stop some of the problems early on. So there's a whole package of things we'd like to see the government do.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

You know, with the campaign this week that you've got going on, what would be the one simple message that you'd want people to take away from this?

SPEAKER_02 41:52

I'm gonna say two things. I'm gonna be cheeky. So, firstly, on the end the delivery trap, people can still support the campaign and write to their own NP. We can you can do that simply through our website if you search for end the delivery trap. And that's that's a really useful thing that people can do just to make sure that government are aware of this issue and that action can be taken. But secondly, for alcohol awareness week, I think it's all about taking that moment to check check your drinking or pass it on to someone else who could really benefit. Really quick, really simple, independent expert advice on what you can do to make a change. So that would be the thing I'd suggest for alcohol awareness week.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Well, listen, Joe, it's been amazing to talk to you. And um, you know, your alcohol awareness week um I'm sure will be a huge success and hopefully change people's lives, change their behaviours around alcohol. You know, finally from me, thanks for everything that you do and good luck for the future.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Thank you, and thanks for everything you're doing to share different stories as well. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Alcohol Awareness Week runs until July the 12th, and you can find out information on the Alcohol Change UK website.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Thanks to David, Karen, and Joe. We'll be back next week with the professional footballer Omar Bogle.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

If you are a loved one struggling with alcoholism or addiction issues, then please know you are not alone. Reach out to our house today.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

You can find out detailed information on our website, and you can get daily recovery content on our Facebook and Instagram pages,