IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast

IN RECOVERY - The Ark House Podcast - S2 EP 7 - Feat OMAR BOGLE (Footballer)

• Ark House Rehab • Season 2 • Episode 7

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 43:36

Welcome to IN RECOVERY - THE ARK HOUSE PODCAST, your essential companion guide to recovery and well-being. 

IN RECOVERY - THE ARK HOUSE PODCAST is thrilled to be named one of the Best Podcasts by The Sunday Times (June 2026) and is riding high in the charts, as we continue our second season.  We are so grateful to everyone for their support. If you are listening on Apple - we would love you to leave us a review.

IN RECOVERY is a companion guide for those on their addiction recovery journey. We also want to offer advice and support for those still suffering and offer solutions for those who just want to know more. This is a well-being podcast produced and presented by people with lived experience who want to carry the message of recovery.

In this episode three more interviews with people who want to share their stories of hope, faith and courage as well as give game changing advice.  

OMAR BOGLE is a British Footballer who had to take time out from his beloved game when a painkiller addiction took over his life, following an injury. In this frank chat he talks to us about the dark times he faced and how he came out the other side. From going into rehab to changing how he lives his life, we want to thank Omar for carrying the message of recovery to others. 

Former resident of Ark House MATTY is back in Ark House to talk about his recovery journey. He gives some amazing advice on how to approach meditation, which is game changing for how your mind works. 

We are also joined by MICHELLE FOSTER from The Basement Project in Halifax. This award winning community-based organisation in Yorkshire is built on the expertise of lived experience. They offer those in addiction a new way of life, free from the need or desire to use any mind-altering substance. 

THE BASEMENT PROJECT 

https://thebasementproject.org.uk/

PLEASE LEAVE US A REVIEW if you enjoyed this episode and the series. 

SAM AND RICHARD - THE HOSTS

Are both in recovery themselves and so have lived experience of alcoholism and addiction. 

If you or a loved one need help from addiction, please know there is help. Reach out and speak to Ark House today....

PHONE 01723 371869

EMAIL info@arkhouserehab.co.uk

ADDRESS 15 Valley Road, Scarborough, Y011 2LY

WEBSITE www.arkhouserehab.co.uk

FACEBOOK  @arkhouserehabltd

INSTAGRAM @in_recovery_podcast

SPEAKER_05

In recovery.

unknown

In recovery.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to In Recovery, the Ark House Podcast. I'm Richard and I've been in recovery from addiction for over six years.

SPEAKER_04

I'm Sam and I've just celebrated my 18-month milestone. Together with Richard, we are here to bring you inspiring stories of recovery as well as game-changing tips and advice.

SPEAKER_03

Whether you're in addiction, in recovery, or just want to know more, we welcome you to our recovery conversation.

SPEAKER_04

Coming up today, professional footballer or my bubble.

SPEAKER_03

Ark House Rehab in Scarborough has helped thousands of people change their lives since it opened over 30 years ago, and we hope this podcast can carry the message of recovery around the world. Every episode we speak to someone in the spotlight who has faced their own battle with addiction and is now in their recovery journey. Actors, comedians, musicians, and sports stars. My guest today is the latter, a professional footballer who lives and breathes the sport. Over the years he has played for teams including Wigan Athletic, Cardiff City, Hartleypool, and Doncaster Rovers. He now plays as a striker for EFL League 2 club Crew Alexander. However, after a serious back injury in 2024, an addiction to painkillers and sleeping pills started. After finding help, he now bravely uses his platform to speak out in the hope it can help others. It's a pleasure to welcome to the podcast Omar Bogle. Hello. Hello mate. Okay? Yeah, good, thank you. So just speak to me about football. Was it always the dream?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I put all my eggs in one basket, really, and decided, yeah, that's what I'm doing. So, yeah. But to be considered a professional is difficult in itself. Um, did I expect to be here? Well, yeah, if I'm gonna be honest, I um you know I I committed my whole life to it. You know what I mean? I really dedicated my life to it, so I knew that I was going to make it. Did I foresee myself being here playing at this level at this stage in my career? No, I'd have expected myself to have been playing higher, but there's obviously reasons that I've contributed to that, which I'm I'm guessing we'll speak about.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, let's get to 2024 when you had the back injury. I mean, an injury for a sportsman is a nightmare. You know, my experience is my son currently plays cricket for Yorkshire and he has a double stress fracture, which he's going through at the moment. So just tell me what happened to you. I I just signed for crew.

SPEAKER_00

It was my second preseason game, and literally I was on the pitch for about 60 seconds if that. Ball's come up, I've gone to back into the defender to bring it down. He's come running in knee high, lower back, and I just knew straight away I'd done something. I'd never done anything to my back before, never had any injury like that, but I just knew at the time like I'd done something because the pain was like to this day, I'd say it is the worst pain that I felt. Yeah, that basically led to me finding out that I had three fractures or four, three or four fractures I had back at the time. So that kind of killed me to be honest, like slowed me down a lot as well.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm guessing it's not just a physical pain. Mentally, you must have been thinking, shit, what does that mean for my career?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure. Like, I'm like, I'm just like, what like what does it even mean? Like, how long am I gonna be out for? What effects is it gonna have on me? And it was just constant pain and agony and sleepless nights and falling asleep, waking up in the middle of the night to like excruciating pain, where like I'm almost in tears, like I'm almost crying. I mean, the problem there might be one or two times where I did cry, do you know what I mean? Where I was like shedding a tear because it was that painful.

SPEAKER_03

So I guess you'll have been on medication for the pain. So, how did things start to spiral and how much were you taking and how often?

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh, yeah, I got I got prescribed medication that was for the you know to help me sleep, um, to take the edge off the pain, to kind of um turn down the sensations of your nerves and stuff because that was what was causing me the most pain. And yeah, if I'm gonna be honest, it was like it was great. That was the first time I had diazepam ever in my life. That was like, exactly, you know what I mean? Like it felt good, you know what I mean? Like uh might made me feel stuff. Not only did it take away or take the edge off the pain, it was a great feeling. I mean, I'll be honest, that's how it felt to me. And yeah, you kind of just spiraled, I'd say, uh, from there. But you know, this problem that this started even way before that, you know, in terms of just mentally and spiritually, these problems that I had started way before that because I've gone through so much shit in my life. Through a lot of my life, I've I've used different vices to kind of numb those things and blant them out. So this was just like a byproduct of that, really.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I totally relate to that. But you know, my drug of choice was cocaine, and I used that to numb the pain and any feelings that I had at that time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, like it just it just shuts the noise off. You know, you don't you don't feel anything, and it became about not feeling. So, and then I you know, you get addicted to that more.

SPEAKER_03

So, yeah, it's been interesting as my recovery. You know, I I've realized, you know, it wasn't just drugs. I'm an all or nothing guy, and what that looks like to me today is that if I open a pack of 10 kick counts, I'm having all 10. You know, I I can't just stop at one. So I you know, from your point of view, are you the same as that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, literally, mate. Literally, um you know, when you're in when you're in recovery and you know, when you go into you know, you go into rehab and stuff and you learn all these things and it's like a light bulb moment, it's like that is me all over. Like and then it like you said, it puts everything into perspective. And my career, like with football, it was all in. I'm talking all in. I sacrificed, you know, friendships and relationships with family and my relationships with my exes, and and it was all and nothing. And it's the same. If I go out drinking with my friends, I'm drinking to like do you know what I mean? There is no middle ground, there isn't our one and two, and we're finished. It's like I'm neither not drinking or we're going to the moon kind of thing. And you know, it was the same with the drugs. Yeah, it was literally the same. It was no surprise, especially in hindsight now. It was no surprise it went that way.

SPEAKER_03

And I read it got to the point you were taking 19 pills a night. You know, looking back, do you think you knew you had a real problem or were the drugs just blindsiding you?

SPEAKER_00

I've uh yeah, I think I'd I I I'd admitted to myself that I was, yeah, I was obviously hooked on a dick. And I probably wouldn't have even said used the word addictive because again, I don't know if it was the same for you, but before you probably get into recovery and you go into rehab, you don't even know what the word addiction means. Like there's this, it's like this whole taboo meaning like behind it. You know what I mean? Like when you hear addicts, you think of your mental image as something crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think to be honest with you, one of the things that kept me out so long was that I didn't realise, I didn't think I was an addict. You know, my interpretation and my thoughts of an addict were you know, somebody sat on a park bench shooting up heroin or having a can of strongbow. You know, it certainly wasn't me because I had a job and a house.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I've still got my house, I still got my car, I've still got a nice job, I can still function day to day, so I'm not an addict. But did I think that I had a real problem? No, not really. Not really, if I'm gonna be honest. With knowing that, like it's it isn't a big thing, it's a prevalent thing. And I know numerous players who in a similar I would probably not as bad as me, maybe are worse than me, I don't know, but they you know, they have problems with drugs and stuff. And I kind of just thought it was normal. It gets to a stage where then I started to realize certain behaviours I was doing and the pattern that was forming that something's not right here. And the only thing that has really changed in my life over the 18 months prior was my use of drugs and alcohol and things like that. So yeah, that's when I kind of accepted or realised, I guess, that you know I've got a problem here. It's like it went from I don't feel anything to I feel everything now, and everything that I feel is everything bad. You know, the depression and the suicidal thoughts and the constant want to not be here. And yeah, I couldn't, that's when you know I couldn't get out of it then. Now it's just pure darkness. Every day is just darkness. You know, it's probably maybe hard for people to resonate with that person or that version of myself, but it's just because I've come such a long way from where I was that I can even speak about it like this now. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03

17 years in active addiction and I didn't tell anybody. You know, I was really quite private with it all, tried to hide it. You know, I was full of shame, I was full of regret. But I mean, on my darkest days, I just didn't want to be here anymore. I also didn't really have the courage to actually kill myself. I just hoped I wouldn't wake up.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like that is what I was trying to do. I was trying to like take enough where I literally just don't wake up. I just slip off into a you know one of these freaking overdose states that I was getting into every night. Although I didn't want to be here, you know, I didn't didn't want to, or maybe just didn't have the the courage to actually, you know, go blow my brains out or something. And obviously now looking back, it's like I think was it the fact that I wanted to die, or was it I just wanted the noise to stop? Do you think anyone close to you knew what was going on? I I I speak to my teammates now, you know, but all really close and you know, I love them to bits on my teammates have supported me so much. You know, and they say to me like we have we don't have a clue. And obviously, you know, we're like as addicts, we're fucking good liars, you know what I mean? So I you know, I hid it, I hid it well, I lied and all the rest of it. But they didn't really notice anything different with me. But when I look back and I look real and I look at how I was being and how I was behaving, it was madness. It was just like the complete opposite of who I am as a person. You know, you kind of realize, don't you, that a lot of people care about you and love you more than you probably ever thought, and they can they are empathetic and understand that you was in a bad place, and that isn't you as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I read that the one person that did notice that there was something seriously wrong was your agent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like he, yeah, you know, it's like yeah, you know, we went on holiday together, yeah, it was chaos. Put it that, put it that put it like that. And then I got back and I realized that I've gone back to training in like 10 days. I've done no running, I've done nothing, I look like shit, I feel like shit. The last thing I want to do is play football right now. You know, all I want to do is just fucking just disappear. And I phoned him and I said, like, can you speak to the club and ask them if I can have an extra week off? And he that was like the alarm bells for him, where he was like, No, this isn't right. Because he knows like me, I love football so much, like I just love the game. So if he knows me, for me to suggest to not go back to training, that's insane. And yeah, he just said to me, 'Look, I've you know, am I worried about you? I said when when we were away together, I looked at you and I couldn't see anything behind your eyes,' and then that's when I kind of told him, then it was like, Oh, yeah, I think I've got to tell him here. Like, it kind of went from there. But if he had, if he hadn't said anything to me or hadn't noticed anything, I would have just carried up my madness, to be honest. When I went into rehab, I kind of met these people, and like, if I'm gonna be honest, it became it became kind of cool to me to be able to be like, Oh, yeah, I'm I'm an addict. I just felt good to be able to say, you know, I mean, it was like a way off my shoulders kind of thing. Like, hey, yeah, this is what I am here. Um, and I'm not the only one. And there's people that are, you know, that just like me, some better off, some worse, some now doing great things in life and all the rest of it. Um, the feeling it gave me after it was, as you know, you know, it's a great feeling.

SPEAKER_03

So, unlike me, uh you know, I worked in a bank. You you obviously had a profile, and obviously attached to that is the stigma of about being an addict. You know, how did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00

I say when I went into rehab, you know, the club were brilliant with me in that sense. Like we kept it, you know, they asked me if I wanted anybody to know, I said no. Um, while I was going through the process, I didn't want anybody to know, so you know, even my teammates didn't know. I've got some of my best friends that didn't know. By the time I came out, I was already then six or seven weeks sober. You know, your mind starts clearing up and you start to think more rationally and stuff. So at that point, it was like I was okay then with people knowing. You know, when I did my interview with Sky a few months ago, at that point it was like, you know, it became less about you know, embarrassed and the shame, and it then switched to okay, well, how can I help people? How can this help someone else? I know there's people that are in the game, so not just in normal life, but in people that are in my industry that are struggling and feeling how I felt. And if I can help, if my message or what I say can help one person, then brilliant.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think that's been a game changer for me as well. You know, I was very private when I came in here, I didn't want anybody to know, and and now I'm quite happy to tell people about my recovery journey, and if that helps one person who looks on our social media, looks at our podcast, then you know, it's great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and like you said, like sometimes it's just it sounds bad, but just knowing that someone else is also going through a tough time, it can help you because it like it just takes you know, you then realize that okay, I am just normal. I'm not a madman, I'm just a human being that's having an experience. And there's other people that are experiencing this as well, and that's okay. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I totally agree with you what you've said there. You know, my recovery today has given me a new drive. You know, and the way I deal with life, you know, I know that I have to get up in the morning, I know I have to do the next right thing, and I need to keep myself busy. I'm massively passionate about recovery and I want to help the next person. You know, my energy is used in the right ways today, at last.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Literally that for the right reason at last, you know, we probably used it for so long on all the on all the wrong things, but yeah, like now it's yeah, it's been really good. Like I said, it's been really good. And I can't, you know, I am in a place where I feel great, you know, like I like me sitting there explaining it does feel a bit surreal because I can do it with so much ease now. Um, but I you know, I live my life totally differently and I feel yeah, I feel a hundred times better. I can't even like it, I I have to think hard to remember like that person and how I was feeling then. Do you know what I mean? Like because of just how I feel now, day to day, like it's so much better, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And of course, it's amazing you feel that way. If someone there was struggling, knowing what you know now, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_00

And it's people ask me this, and it's like it's proper cliche because it is like speak to someone. Do you know what I mean? I know that's hard to do when you're in that situation because you know you do just feel like you're alone. If you fight anything, if you feel anything like how I felt, it was just like you're alone, and nobody's gonna understand, and you're gonna be judged, and there's gonna be all these repercussions that are gonna come from telling somebody, hey, I'm I'm struggling here. But it is just find someone that you are really close to and that you can trust and kind of just share it with them, you know, and you know, and speak to them. And you aren't the only one, and you're not a weirdo, you're not crazy for being in the space that you're in right now and feeling how you feel, or even doing the things that you're doing, you're not, you're just having an experience and you're going through you know a dark time, but you know, it does get better.

SPEAKER_03

And I think it's also important to remember that the past is the past, and there needs to be an acceptance around that we can't change that, but we do have a chance of building a new life, we have a second chance in life.

SPEAKER_00

You can you create your own life, don't you? Do you know what I mean? And you you kind of create you you do create your own story. It's like when you think we when you when you think that you're alone and you don't have anybody, but you create that because then what you do is you isolate yourself from everyone, and then that tells you that oh, I don't have anybody around me. When no, you're isolating. This is you doing this, you know what I mean? You create your own story, and obviously you can do the same thing the other way, and I'm the same like you, like I'm now creating a new story for myself. I'm learning to enjoy life without having to use substances, without having to drink to make me feel better, or to make me to help me cope in situations and to be around certain people, or learning to love it as well. It doesn't feel you know, it don't feel like a chore, like I'm just learning to love it, like this new way of living.

SPEAKER_03

So in November 2025, you returned to the pitch and scored a goal in your first game. What did it feel like to be back doing the thing you have always loved?

SPEAKER_00

Ah, brilliant, like amazing. It was yeah, I mean even the game, like it was just such a moment in the stadium at the time. So, yeah, when I scored and the celebrations, it just created like this atmosphere like in the stadium. It was unbelievable. Like with all the supporters, my teammates, because they knew what I'd gone through. Yeah, so I've only been on the pitch for like two or three minutes and then score, it was yeah, it was amazing. So that's one of the main things for me now. Like, I'm back in love with football again. And obviously, that just comes with obviously having a clear mind and I'm building myself back up again to get back to where I was and how I felt physically and mentally. But yeah, it's going in the right, it's going the right path as well. It's going the right path for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Well, listen, it's been inspiring talking to you and hearing your story, and we really do wish you all the best in the rest of your career. It's been amazing to meet you. Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_00

You too, my man. I appreciate you, man. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04

Making the decision to change your life can be daunting and scary. Every episode we speak to someone who has taken the decision and chosen Ark House to start their journey. Today's guest describes himself as recovered but not cured. As anyone in recovery knows, admitting you need help with addiction takes dedication and guts, and the rehab process can be tough. It's a pleasure to welcome this week's recovery graduate, Matthew. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01

I'm very well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04

We are waste out with our quick fire questions. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01

Uh ready as I'm ever gonna be.

SPEAKER_04

Age?

SPEAKER_01

40.

SPEAKER_04

Where are you from?

SPEAKER_01

Middlesbrough.

SPEAKER_04

What brought you to our house?

SPEAKER_01

By Richards, dodgy Renault Belingo car.

SPEAKER_04

How long were you struggling with addiction?

SPEAKER_01

Five years in in addiction. Current clean time. It will be four years, God willing.

SPEAKER_04

Brilliant. Well done. Congratulations. So let's start with that quote. What do you mean by recovered but not cured?

SPEAKER_01

I am recovered in that I no longer need to turn to a substance or alcohol to live life. But if I don't do what I need to do to keep me in a healthy place and keep me happy and keep me well, I can easily slip back to that place.

SPEAKER_04

So if we turn back the clock, can you pinpoint where addiction actually started for you?

SPEAKER_01

I've always been a drinker. Everything I did was around drink. My whole social life and home life revolved around having a drink. It's what what I did. It's all my mates did it as well, and that's fine. I was always the one who got too drunk, always the one who was blacking out or throwing over everything. And then in my early 30s, out of nowhere, I had a huge panic attack. It killed my confidence, and that turned into anxiety about having other panic attacks and things like that. And that's when the drinking really started to take over. And over the course of the next five years, it'd be on and off. I'd feel good, so I maybe just wouldn't drink as much. But as soon as anything came back in where the anxiety and the panic was back in, I'd turn to drink to solve it. Because it went in an instant, it just went straight away. First couple of mouthfuls, that anxiety and fear was gone. But eventually I just needed drink to get through the day and just sub subdue those feelings that were just taking over my life.

SPEAKER_04

If you look back and you think of the time you thought that you had just lost control.

SPEAKER_01

The first huge scare I had, so I was drinking very heavy every day, morning, night, and my parents pulled me up on it. They pulled me up, I said, Yeah, okay, I'll stop. And I stopped there and then. And on the second day, I was in the garden, I'd been shaking a lot. I had a lot of withdrawal symptoms, and I was in the my parents' back garden with my my two kids, and they were playing in the the uh paddling pool, and I took a photo of them and I sent it to their mum. And I'd I I was I was shaking a hell of a lot at the time, and then the next thing I know, I'm sat in the back of an ambulance and I've had a seizure, and my mum's had to pull my tongue out of my throat, and my kids have seen it, and I was just distraught. Like I I I just knew I was done then. I I I knew at that point that this had me, but what I didn't know was how to get out of it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's really hard, isn't it? Like knowing that you've got a problem and how to sort that problem out. Yeah, I mean it's one thing knowing it, but actually trying to sort it out. Like, I remember times like I knew deep inside that I was fucked, basically. Um I managed to get to like uh services, I'd make one appointment and then I'd never make it back to another edge, and I was just absolutely in the grips of this addiction. And consequence wise, what did life look like at that time?

SPEAKER_01

I had to quit my job in the end. I had to move out of my family home and divorced from my wife. Still got the kids in my life, but they were very shielded and protected from me. And that was something I needed as well because I just couldn't let them see me in the state I was, so I didn't see as much of them as I would have liked. My parents have always been supportive as well. Um, so I held that network of support quite well, and I'm very lucky in that sense.

SPEAKER_04

And you said you weren't sure how you were going to get sober. I know you did two detoxes before AC, but did lapse. Do you remember finally coming into ARC house?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I remember. So I came out the second detox, and I had lasted hours, like I say, and I knew I needed something more long term. So I you know, I'd had the experience of the two two week detoxes, so I kind of knew what to expect. But when I walked in, you know, I I was still shaking a lot. But you sort of get this camaraderie when you come in a place like this where everyone's in it together. I settled in very quickly once I was in here and felt very comfortable. I'm the type of person I need an instruction manual, I need a book. That's exactly how. You do it. I do that with my work, I do that with my home life. I write everything down, I have a plan. And I needed that. When I was in the detox, it was a bit of this, we'll do a bit of sound therapy. Oh, he's a big book. And that's the difference when you come in somewhere like Arkhaus. It gives you a structure and come up with a way of sort of living going forward. And that's what I loved about it. It's exactly what I needed. I remember sitting at home on my own after that second detox drinking, going, I just need someone to tell me, just tell me exactly what to do, because this thing had me, and I had no clue how to get out of it. I just wanted to be able to live, and these people had it. And that's what when you come in places like Ark House and you see this the staff that have already been through it, or you see the people that are quite far into the programme, and it it pulls you along so much more. Same as it means.

SPEAKER_04

And for people listening, it's so important, isn't it, to stay connected to others in recovery, especially early on.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, and I've gone through through periods in my recovery where I've maybe just become complacent and I've not gone to as many meetings as I should have, or I've not connected as much as I should with other people in recovery and and things like that. And I see the difference in me. You know, I get more irritable, I get more frustrated with life and things like that. There's there's just a a common it's a common connection that people in recovery have and and and there's not there's no one else who can who we can relate to. There just isn't people outside of it, just do not understand what it's like for addiction to grab hold of you and and just pull you down.

SPEAKER_04

Coming out of rehab, would you agree that you need to take baby steps? Of course, we want the car, the job, the relationships back, but you've got to take things slowly, don't you?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, and and you know you can make a plan for that, but give yourself the time to do it. We're learning how to live totally different. We're trying to undo years and years of living one way and trying to learn this new way of living. It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight.

SPEAKER_04

So I know a big part of your recovery journey involves meditation. When did that start to really resonate with you?

SPEAKER_01

I remember even before I came to our house, I had started meditating to try after the detoxes because my you know, as I now understand, my problem wasn't the drink or or the or the substances or anything like that. It was my head and my ability to manage my thinking in everyday life. That's what I struggled with. So I did start meditation before I came into Ark House, and I I did see a pattern that every time I didn't keep up with it, my mental health would diminish and I'd struggle with it. And that's when the drinking would pick up, and that pattern's there, I can see it. But when I left Arkhouse and I saw when I was in Arkhouse, and you know, we were talking prayer meditation every every day. I I I I could I could grab hold of it and and and really utilise it to to control or to try and ease my way in the living, if that makes sense. Because my my brain works at a thousand miles an hour, it would it, you know, I've got thoughts coming and going all the time. And if I if if I meditate, I can I can feel the calmness as I'm doing it. And then I'm doing breath work and uh I'm going to the beach all the time in the middle of the night with round fires and oh, I loved it, absolutely loved it. And again, you find other connections in those spaces as well.

SPEAKER_04

You said there that your brain works at a thousand miles an hour, which I can really resonate with. Um when I was in the madness, I used to find myself like running off to the park, finding a quieter spot and um doing a bit of meditation. And I said to my friend, I was like, What are you doing? I said, Oh, I'm going meditating. I was like, Well, how do you do that? I said, I'll just sit there and I breathe, you know, and it calmed my head down. But as soon as I got back up and was back, you know, in the real world, you know, it was back on me, you know, my head would just would not stop unless I was putting a substance in me and then it'd be fighting conkers again. Um do you know, but in recovery, it is so calm. And when I do find it like other thinking, do you know I just put a prayer out there, do some breath work. So many people think that because their brains work so quickly, they won't be able to meditate. But you'll disagree with that, right?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, anyone can meditate. I absolutely I know it. I think one of the biggest, like you say, myths behind it is that we have to be sat there. Our brain shouldn't be thinking, it should all be stillness, we shouldn't be doing it. When you start meditating, your brain will still move at a thousand miles an hour and it will run away with thoughts, it'll run away with thoughts, it'll run away with thoughts, and that's okay. And the it's about being aware of those thoughts more than anything. So if you start out meditating, you find yourself getting distracted, coming back, getting distracted, coming back a hundred times, and that's okay, that's still meditating. And what happens if you're consistent with it, and by consistent daily practice, even 10 minutes a day is enough, that gap between stillness and getting distracted will eventually grow, and you'll become more still, more, still, more still. But it comes with comes with practice.

SPEAKER_04

You said there, you need to be consistent, don't you, in recovery? Just the smallest things in your routine can be so game-changing, but you have to be consistent with them.

SPEAKER_01

I I I mean, I've had periods in in recovery where I've gone and done everything all the time. Bit of this, bit of that, da da da da da da da. And it it it just becomes overwhelming, and I'm just like, yeah, and I end up with 10 things that I haven't done anything with. Whereas if I pick one thing and I'm consistent with it and I build it into a habit and it bec just becomes part of my life and it just becomes automatic, then I can move on to the next one and I can find something else and pull it in. I can just be if I'm just patient with it and I get that consistency, then it's cemented rather than it just flitters away.

SPEAKER_04

And if anyone is still sat there not sold on meditation, any tips on what kind of meditation to try first?

SPEAKER_01

I would go guided. A really good one for me to sell the benefits of it, and you don't really get it in classes as much as do a meditation to help you to sleep. You will see the benefits very quickly with that. Then you can introduce a morning meditation. Morning meditation is brilliant, and it doesn't have to be anything long, it doesn't have to be complicated, but again, news guided for a bit. You feel, oh yeah, that's okay. That that that's a good job. If you do find ones, you're like, no, I can't listen to that for no thanks. So yeah, you do you tend to find. I use an app called Insight Time, it's brilliant, it's free, and it has thousands of meditations on there. So get that on your phone, it's free. Oh well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna download that. So, apart from the meditation, what does life in recovery look like for you now?

SPEAKER_01

For a long time, recovery was meetings every other day, you know, it was constant contact, everything like that. It was and I was in this recovery bubble, and it is exactly what I needed at exactly that time. And I've transitioned almost, and I've spoken to people about this in that I am now moving on to the rest of life. You know, there's I I I've always said from day one, I do not want to get into recovery to just sit behind a closed door and hide away from the world. My meetings might be one or two a week now, four years, coming up four years, one or two a week. And I listen to the audios all the time, and I keep contact with people in recovery as well. But I also go out and socialise. I'm back going to the football, you know, which I hadn't been to since before I stopped drinking, you know, meeting up with friends, going to weddings and parties and you know, all this sort of stuff, and just integrating myself back into normal living, and that's how it is at the minute. And I don't know where it'll be in the future, but that's okay as well. Only an only only someone in recovery, a recovering addict, can understand the the magnitude of of how grateful we are to be able to live life again because I thought my life was done.

SPEAKER_04

Right, to end with some more quick fire questions. What's your newest healthiest habit?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I've just joined a gym.

SPEAKER_04

What's your favourite recovery clicher?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, one day at a time.

SPEAKER_04

What do you do to beat boredom?

SPEAKER_01

To beat boredom? At the minute, it's go to the gym. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And finally, if you could give the younger Matthew some advice, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, God, start again. Be kinder to yourself, put less pressure on yourself. Absolutely. My my problem is uh I always thought I had to be act a certain way, be myself and be kinder to myself. It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_04

If you could be grateful for one thing today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01

Being asked to come in here, yeah. It's gotta be returned to workhouse. It's fantastic, please.

SPEAKER_03

Today we are in Halifax, West Yorkshire, to meet one of them, the CEO of the Basement Recovery Project, which started 20 years ago as the Calderdale User Forum. It's a pleasure to welcome to the podcast Michelle Foster. Hello!

SPEAKER_05

Oh hi, hi everyone.

SPEAKER_03

Just tell us a little bit about your journey to where you are now.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, my personal journey is I'm a person in long-term recovery. I've been in recovery um for about nearly 30 years. And then I met my work partner, work husband, as he's called, Stuart Honor, and we started Coddale User Forum together. And then about 18 months into that, we set up the basement. We realised people were going away to rehab and coming back on the train, picking a can up, and they had nothing to come back to. As a service user group, and you're advocating and you're trying to get services changed, when they're not listening, we just decided, well, we'll do it for ourselves, and that was kind of how the basement started. We'll do it for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03

We find many people coming to treatment in in Scarborough and they're taking her out of their community, they then get well in that rehab. Regards to the basement project, you know, people get sick in Calderdale, can they get well in Calderdale?

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. Don't know whether um whether you've heard this before around the you know, the a person's dying the tree's dying in Calderdale. You dig the tree up, you move it to fertile lands, the Western Supermare or the or the Scarborough rehab, you feed it, you water it, you nurture it, and it grows and starts to start to come back to life. Then you dig it back up and you take it back to where it's come from, replant it back where it's come from, and then it starts dying again. You think, oh bloody hell, why has that happened? So we look at treating the soil. So it's the soil in Calderdale that we've been treating, and that's what our community's about. At the end of the day, you've got to get well where you've got sick. You you your pubs, your family. We probably have people living in Calderdale who've had horrific times in Calderdale but can still manage to get well and live in Calderdale as well.

SPEAKER_03

I I didn't understand this geographical thing until I went into treatment. You know, I'd I'd move 16 times in 17 years, and it wasn't until I arrived in treatment and somebody somebody said to me, You're just moving the problem. You're the problem, not the community that you live in.

SPEAKER_05

With with the arc, I think sometimes people just need a little bit of space. So so for some people, going there for three to you know, three months, six months, it can give them a break, but with a view, you know, with a view to come back. So I think sometimes people need space, and that's what I think the ark does for people, it gives them that space.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so back in 2006 then, when you started this project, what did the drug and alcohol services look like in Caldera? Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_05

It it was dreadful. There wasn't a a solution for very many people. And I guess we we measure the solution by how much mutual aid there is in a town.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So when we started, I think there was just two AA meetings. Wow. And now we've probably got about 30 meetings in Calderale. We we started with a couple of breakfast clubs at the YMCA, and we stayed quite independent actually for about 10 years, but we got lucky with some support from the National Treatment Agency to set up our first house.

SPEAKER_03

So, what was the dream, you know, when you started the Breakfast Club?

SPEAKER_05

I don't think there was a dream. That's the funny thing, really. And I think we've barely got a business plan even now. We just meet people where they're at, we meet the need where it's at. I never imagine I mean, I never imagined that we would be where we are now. You know, so today we have um a day of service, we have a large house where we provide different sorts of detox facilities for people. We have people working in prisons, people working in the hospital. Whilst we don't want to be empire builders, we want to help other people be able to do what we can do. We do believe something like this should be in every town. So whatever we can do to make that happen is kind of what we're about.

SPEAKER_02

So you're talking about your houses, what do they actually look like? What are they for?

SPEAKER_05

First and foremost, they have to be somewhere where I would be prepared to live.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

And they have to be somewhere I would want a family member to live in. The houses that we have provide a range of things. So so we talk about detox, but we also do what we call a stabilization. So stabilisation could be for somebody who's using on top, who's in a in chaos, and who just you take them off the merry ground and bring them in. So you're stabilizing them and you may be stabilizing them on methadones, so as long as they don't use on top, and they can have up to seven weeks with us, uh, so they're getting you know healthcare, fed, etc. etc. At that point, if they feel that they want to detox because they think, oh, I want a bit more of this, there's an option to detox. If they just want to go back out and use, that's fine as well, but you've probably saved someone's life for a little bit longer till till the next time. And then we also do what's called a therapeutics day. So for someone who's like a cocaine user, who's just struggling, but there's obviously no medical intervention or clinical intervention, it's just to give them some uh stability. So so there's a range of things go on in those houses.

SPEAKER_03

So, what are your most proudest moment at the moment?

SPEAKER_05

I think it um I mean, I think it's seeing family, you know, families. So we had a couple who came through about three or four years ago. He now has got a quite a good job with Smart. She went back to working in marketing, but they got married, they've had a little baby. You know, it's seeing those things really when they bring the baby in. I think it's it's the families that that you see getting well. It's not just because it's not just an individual problem, is it? It's a family, it's a state, it's a it's it's an everybody illness. So yeah, I would say that.

SPEAKER_03

So I have seen a few things on your socials that you've that have been running, which I do think are really, really good. And one of them's kind of close to my heart. You you created a video for the cadets of West Yorkshire Police, of which two of my boys are policemen in West Yorkshire. One of them's just down the road, actually. Uh what was the aim of that?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I it was we used to go to Wakefield and and do it face to face with the cadets, but it's just difficult. I I don't think they are as available as we are. And once we'd realised we'd done it for them, so we did the video for them, we thought, well, it can go to the hospital staff, it can go to preparation, it can go to housing providers. So yeah, it's just uh it's just a useful tool, really. It's good for you know the police seeing who who we really are. I mean, we have our guys do uh cell work, so they do the RAs in the cells. So again, it's all just people with lived experience. What I see see more and more and more nowadays. I think we also need to be looking at people who drink and drug drive. And I think we could be doing work with drivers, you know, the amount of times a car drives past you now, smelling of you know, it's just terrible uh it's just frightening, really. And we just it's like, oh wow, okay, but if we saw someone driving erratically up the road, you know, hammered on a bottle of vodka, we'd be irate, wouldn't we? So I do think there's a bit of work there to do as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It seems to me from talking to you that you're really, really embedded into the community. Yes. And I guess in the last 20 years that's changed massively, has it?

SPEAKER_05

Massive. For the first five years, everyone hated us because you're there to shake something apart, yeah. You're there to criticize, you know, service user groups, it's like the trade union of the system, isn't it? So they don't like what what you have to say. So absolutely, it we and and we wasted a lot of energy fighting. And I think that's so for us, it was to stop fighting, just do what we can do and mind our own business and just get on with our own stuff and it'll come good. I think the other thing what w where we took a view was around the fellowship. So if you operate as an individual with fellowship principles, I think you can also operate as an organisation with fellowship principles. So that idea of giving back, you know, we do what we uh we can and give stuff away helps our organisation. It'll it'll it'll come back and everything will be alright. I just know everything will be alright, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I know one of our slogans is one day at a time. Um I'm gonna ask you to think outside that 20 years' time, what do you think this place is gonna look like?

SPEAKER_05

It's scary because I look at who started when we started and a lot of them don't exist.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So it's really hard as it's a fine line between turning into a corporate service and getting sucked in, you know, to the CQC and all the rest of it, and staying authentic and having autonomy and staying independent and and navigating that fine line is is trickier. I think the other thing, more but more practically, heroin users aren't coming into service. So that's a that they are gone, you know. In the next 20 years there will be no heroin users in service, so we won't need methadone and we won't need necessarily so many clinicians. So service will have to be community.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

It will have to because it'll be serving a different drug.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean we well, that's what we found. I mean, I I can't remember the last heroin user we had in in our but what we're what we are seeing is a massive increase in ketamine. And I think the thing with ketamine is it's a lot of younger people, yeah. It's affecting them quicker because of the the health issues uh around that and and and like you say, you know, it's just it's gonna change the environment, it's gonna change again, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And and but I think with that with ketamine as well, there's no medication, there's no replacement medication, you know. But and by the time you realise it, it's almost too too late, you know. So I mean we're we're doing um we're starting with we're doing a ketamine campaign this year, but we're starting a ketamine smart. We believe addiction is addiction is addiction, so we try not to single out certain substances. But I do think having a a a better understanding of ketamine is useful for people who are using it.

SPEAKER_03

And it's interesting as well, because we had a g we had a girl who came into ARC who left and went back to Barnsley, and she was going into Cocaine Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, and and NA, and didn't really it she won't really fit in into any of those when she's set up Ketamine Anonymous now in Barnsley. And what's happened is there's loads of people have started to drop into that meeting just purely because that's their thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I think you've got to find your own place, haven't you? Your own tribe, and then you can talk, can't you, and get well through talking, I guess. Okay, so we've just been focusing on ketamine there. So over the last 20 years, how's the drink and drug culture kind of changed within Halifax?

SPEAKER_05

We obviously see an awful lot more alcoholics. We we used to be, when we first started the service, they had a drug service and an alcohol service, so it's all all under one roof now. But yeah, it was it it is predominantly alcohol and cocaine. Yeah. Yeah. I think what's come what's come along with that as well is a lot of domestic abuse because of the types of substances that people are taking. So that's that's increased in the time that I've been here as well.

SPEAKER_02

Right, okay. So one la one last question then. So what's the what's the standout story?

SPEAKER_05

I think to be able to try a new a new way of working, it it could revolutionalise services elsewhere. So I like to think that we're doing groundbreaking work really.

SPEAKER_03

What I would like to say is obviously if anybody wants any more information about the basement project, the details will be on our page.

SPEAKER_02

And lastly, I'd just like to say thank you for joining us today, Michelle, and I hope you have a great 2026.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks for the chat.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks to our man, Matty, and Michelle for joining us on today's show. You can find out how to reach the basement project in our episode description.

SPEAKER_03

Next week, we are joined by an Australian rugby league legend who talks to us about his gambling addiction that left him with nothing. Luke Bateman speaks to me.

SPEAKER_04

If you are a loved one or struggling with addiction issues, then please know you are not alone. Reach out to Ack House today.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for listening and remember to follow us on Facebook, Ark House Rehab, and Instagram in Recovery Podcast.