The Role of Business in Building Sustainable Communities

Some companies overlook the power of community engagement. Here’s how Kinross Gold Corporation transforms its global operations into responsible actions that benefit its people and business. 

In this episode of Beyond GDP: The Social Progress Podcast, our special guest, Dominic Channer (Vice President for Community Relations), shares how the company effectively manages relationships with indigenous and local communities across six vastly different regions, from Morocco’s Sahara Desert to Alaska’s remote wilderness. 

Discover how Kinross builds trust through early engagement, formal agreements, and tailored strategies that protect traditional livelihoods like indigenous hunting and water use, all while navigating cultural and geographical complexities. Host Michael Green, CEO of the Social Progress Imperative, also discusses with Dominic the importance of building local partnerships with governments and communities to advance social progress before, during, and after the project ends, ensuring full sustainability. They also talk about responsible mining and how to build long-term positive impact. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

In today's Beyond GDP podcast, we're going to be talking about business and specifically what role business has to play in creating more sustainable communities. And I'm delighted to be joined by Dominic Channer, who works for Kinross Gold. And uh gold mining, of course, is very exciting in lots of ways, but particularly because it's about it's so focused on communities. Extractive businesses in general are very close to the communities that they work in. You can really see what their impact is. So delighted to have Dominic with us. Dominic, welcome to the Beyond GDP podcast. Maybe why don't we kick off? Tell us just a bit about Kinross Gold. What what business is it and how to how's it structured?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Great. Um thanks, Michael, for having me on the podcast. Um so yeah, Kinross Gold Corporation, it's uh it's a Canadian uh gold mining company, one of the leading uh and top-performing gold mining companies. And Kinross produces around 2 million ounces a year of um of gold, and um it does it from six mining operations. And the interesting thing about those is just the diversity of culture and geography and community context around them. So, very briefly, um, we have our Tassius mine, which is in Mauritania in West Africa, in a Saharan uh desert environment, um, with sort of local Bedouin communities. Uh, then if you go over to South America, we have our Paracatu mine in Brazil, which is um in sort of south-central Brazil and right next to a city of 100,000 people. Uh, then hop over to Chile. Uh, we have um uh Coipa mine, which is high up in the um Atacama Desert, um the mountainous region of the Andes mountain chain, uh, with Koya indigenous communities in the valleys below the mine. Um, and then if you head north up to um up to the US, uh, we've got a couple of mines in Nevada in sort of the northern central part of uh quite remote parts of Nevada uh with local communities, including uh Western Shoshone indigenous peoples. And then um and then keep going north out to Alaska, and um you come to um uh Fort Knox mine up in central Alaska, just outside Fairfax, and our Moncho um operation, which is um actually on the reservation lands of the uh Teflon um indigenous people. So um all of those mines uh they do a couple of million ounces a year, and as you can see, you know, very diverse um cultural, uh geographic, climatic context, um, which is in itself really interesting and just has an inbuilt diversity into the way the company operates.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

I mean, that's an extraordinary range, and as you say, a lot of indigenous communities there, which I know poses very particular uh challenges and issues in terms of protecting Indigenous people's rights, which I'm sure we're going to get into. Before we talk about indigenous people, just tell us about you, Dominic. What's your role within the business and how did you get to be there?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Sure. Yeah, so I'm the vice president for community relations and sustainability, and um I've been in Kenros almost 20 years now. Um my background is actually in geology. I started as an exploration geologist um in Venezuela in the mid-1990s, and um uh but learned a lot on the ground about engaging with communities and other stakeholders. And um, you know, that that took me over to Ecuador, which is where I joined Kinros, um, and uh and sort of gradually moved out of the geology world into first of all community relations, then external affairs, and um, and then from there into sustainability. So, like a lot of people, a bit of a varied pathway through the industry over the past 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Now, I should say for this point, full disclosure, Esperi actually is doing some work with Kin Ross uh around communities. So that's just a full disclosure, but we don't we're not here to talk about that specifically. So six diverse geographies, um community relations are clearly central. So, what how do you frame thinking about what good community relations are?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, I think um uh you know, for so for Kinross, it really starts sort of right in the foundations of the company. And um uh so I think it's important to start with what's our business purpose? Our business purpose is to generate value through responsible mining, pure and simple. And so, you know, the key word there is responsible. Behind that word is a whole universe of um of action and strategy by the company. And just lying right on top of our purpose are our values. And um Kinross has four values putting people first, outstanding corporate citizenship, uh, rigorous financial discipline, and high performance culture. And so if you take, you know, if you consider those values, you know, they they really form a foundation within the company. They've been in place since 2007, um, and they're integral to our culture. And so if you take that outstanding corporate citizenship piece or value, um, that then opens up into really how we engage um with our with our stakeholders. And um if you combine that with putting people first, you know, you then have this really strong people component to how the company operates. And we value relationships very, very highly. And um the reason why we do that is because trust is essential to the success of our business. And that that that covers right from our investors through to local communities, suppliers, everybody that you know we need to engage with and we need their support to be able to operate our business. So um, so when it comes back to communities and your question, then really the prime focus for us is the relationship with the community. Because if you don't have a relationship, then really there's not a lot else you can do. Um, and so you know, we put a lot of our focus in our in our management systems, the way we engage with communities, on building relationships. Um, and then we see then within that relationship, then there's an ability to talk about managing impacts, because mining always creates impacts on stakeholders. And so, how can we manage our impacts um successfully? But then also through that relationship, how can we realize the tremendous opportunities which come with mining? Because Kinross has a fundamental belief that mining can and should improve people's lives, whether they're our own employees, our business partners, our local communities, and and host countries.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So let's give give you a case study to exact how you operationalize those principles. Pick any of your six locations. How does that work? How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah, so let's um where should we go? Let's let's go to Tatassius to Mauritania. So um uh so you know this is a mine, um, as I mentioned, located in the Sahara Desert. Uh, we have semi-nomadic Bedouin communities um in the immediate area, and then sort of small towns a bit further away and cities. So all of our sites have um within the operations team at the site, they have what we call a community relations team. So in Mauritania, we have a team of about six people, and so their task is to lead really the efforts with regard to engagement with the with the community. So, and so there's two big things here. So, number one is first of all, their internal engagement in the company. It's really important that they're fully engaged in the business. They know what's going on, so they know what the mine is planning to do, what the plant is planning to do, what other parts of the company are planning to do. Um, because you know, for sure there will be connections with the community. For example, let's say they want to build a new hall road or they want to develop another pit for the operation. How's that going to impact our stakeholders? Uh those semi-nomadic Bedouin communities, they they herd camels. And those camel herds, they they go long distances over the desert in search of seasonal vegetation, water, and so on. And so, you know, if there's suddenly going to be a hall road in the way of a migration route, we have to be ahead of that and we have to coordinate with the with the community. So the team has to be internally connected, and then they have to be engaging externally with our stakeholders. Um, so that example I gave with camels, that's a good example of managing impacts. Um, and then at the same time, they have to be engaging with the community to understand what are their concerns, how do they want to benefit from the from the project? And so in a country like Mauritania, there's an there's a a lot of young people looking for work all the time. And so, you know, we have a lot of programs going with the communities to do um uh like vocational skills training, working with a government training organization to give them skills as electricians, as plumbers, technicians, and so on, so that they can neither get jobs with us, and obviously we can take some, but there's no way you can take all. But if you if you're given somebody skills, that means they can get work somewhere. So um, so so you know, there's just to just to summarize, there's an internal piece which is so important, but then there's also obviously all the external engagement.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Great. Well, well, that's so we that's a Mauritania dealing with nomadic communities. Um why don't we go somewhere to Alaska? Completely different climate. How's how's it different with what you're doing in Alaska? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

So so the interesting thing, Michael, is that the our independent of where we are, our approach is the same. And so as a corporation, of course, we're a big corporation and we have policies, procedures, management systems, you know, everything you'd expect. And so our management system applies to all of our sites, but then we give them the latitude to then go and implement their strategy depending on their context. But of course, you know, people are people everywhere, and so, you know, you know, you want to build trust with everybody, it doesn't matter which country. So a lot of what we're doing is very similar. Um, but in um in Alaska, uh, with the context there, and they've just come out of a really heavy deep freeze, um, uh deep freeze winter there. So um uh in Alaska, what we're doing is we're engaging with our stakeholders on a different range of issues, but with the same objective, to have their support and their trust. And so um uh so, for example, if you take uh the Mancho operation that I mentioned, uh, which is on indigenous lands, uh, we have um since the very beginning very close engagement with that community um uh in particular on how the project impacts their land, but especially how we're going to close the project. This project is unique in the fact that it's quite a short mine life project. It's like a six, five, six-year mine life. So we're actually already planning the closure of the project. And so for them, how we're going to infill some of the pits, how we're going to conform the land, how we're going to re-vegetate the land so that over time traditional harvesting practices like uh picking berries and hunting and other things will then come back. So um, similar thing, building trust, but slightly different area of focus.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I remember, I mean, a book that made an enormous impression on me many years ago when I read it was uh a book was called A Poison Stronger Than Love. Um, not the greatest title, but it was a book about, I think from in uh Canada, where I think it was like a copper smelter or something had come into a local population and sort of destroyed the livelihoods of the indigenous community. And it told the story about how there was huge amounts of financial compensation was paid to the community. But the community had been so disrupted by the by the operations and the poisoning of fish, etc., that they essentially they'd been deracinated and how this has had this terrible effect on the population. And it really highlighted me this sort of issue around indigenous populations. So just talking about that, um obviously that's not a nothing with Kin Ross, but in terms of dealing with indigenous populations where you've got you know traditional livelihoods, traditional cultural patterns, really how do you work with indigenous communities to make sure those are protected?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah, no, it it's a key question. And obviously, the you know the industry, you know, uh collectively has come such a long way, you know, over the past decades in terms of engagement, um, not only with indigenous communities, but but more broadly in terms of in terms of responsible mining. Um, for us, as I mentioned, you know, at the beginning, you know, we do um have relationships with indigenous communities at a lot of our operations and also our development projects. Um, one example is um we have a development project in northwestern Ontario called um Great Bear. And so we're actively engaging with um the indigenous communities related to that project. And really, I think you know, the the key thing is um is the early engagement. So starting from the very beginning, you know, at the expiration stage, and then just building that relationship, um, both both through direct engagement, but then also through underlying formal agreements, which then capture the commitments of both parties in the relationship. And so um, what that allows then is uh for us to understand their perspective better, and also for the indigenous community to understand, you know, what the operation is going to look like and how it's gonna work, but then also being able to then talk about things which are of great importance to the indigenous community, so especially impact on the land, um, and then how even even though there's an impact on the land, uh, because in the in the perspective of the indigenous community, the creator put the gold in the land for a purpose to benefit the people. And so it's then it's then thinking it through that lens and saying, okay, so we are going to extract the gold, but then that will then benefit both their people, but then also the company in order to be able to continue the operation. Similar concept around water. Water for the community has a spiritual context and nature. And so, you know, from the mining perspective, waters are an essential resource that we need in order to run our operations, to process the gold and all the rest. But so then it's then bringing those perspectives together and then how we can responsibly use and manage water in a way which respects their beliefs, but also allows the operation to continue. And so in the agreements that we've been developing, we actually have a blend of Western law and in the case of the Great Bear Project, Anishinabe law to try and bring those perspectives together. So it's a really, you know, it's a fascinating and evolving journey. Um, and of course, it's not without its challenges. Um, indigenous communities around the world have vastly different perspectives on the extractive sector. Some are more engaged, some still, you know, have a position where, you know, we don't want development and we have to respect that. Um but um but you know, as a company, you know, we're we're always committed to sort of seeking the consent of indigenous communities and finding ways really to work together, which at the end of the day um benefit everybody.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Whenever we talk about corporate social responsibility, business is doing good, there's yeah, there's always a group of people who will be sneering and saying, oh, it's all greenwashing, it's all just for the sake of appearance. Why does good corporate citizenship, good community relations matter to Kinross Gold commercially? What's in it for Kinross to have to implement programs that are looking at communities and sustainability?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, so no, I, you know, I I recognize that's uh that's a view that um, you know, many people might sort of might hold. And so I think, you know, number one for me is just to repeat what I mentioned earlier, there's a values basis here, there's a moral and ethical values basis. And um I've worked in the industry a long time. I wouldn't be working in it, you know, if it wasn't meaningful to me and aligned with my values. And um uh funny enough, I was talking with somebody who just recently started at Kinross the other day, and um he asked me how long I've been there, and I said, well, almost 20 years. And he looked at me and he said, It's interesting. I've come a there's a lot of people who have been at the company a long time. And um, and you know, at least for me and I think for others as well, the reason why we've been here a long time is because of the values approach, right? It's meaningful, you know, and so we genuinely believe that we're doing good work as um as a company. Um so um uh so you know, but not everybody might accept that and say, okay, well, fine. So if you then come to just the pure business perspective, um it comes back to trust, right? Businesses need the trust of their stakeholders in order to be successful, in order to be uh sustainable. Um and it doesn't matter if that if that stakeholder is an investor. We need investors to buy our shares and hold our shares, but they need to trust we can run our business responsibly. We need the trust of our communities because if they don't trust us, well, there's going to be problems locally. We need the trust of our suppliers, that you know, that we're gonna honor our contracts with them and make our payments on time, and so on and so forth. So um, you know, there's a there's a basic business reason why um, you know, you um, you know, you should be focusing on good relationships with all of your stakeholders and obtaining their trust.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yes, some people will never believe that someone who works in a sector like this will have ethics, which is deeply unfair. But I think that point about there are committed people in these businesses, and it's also it kind of makes commercial sense as well because of that foundation of trust and relationships. Um, Kinross obviously is uh is yeah, one of the leading firms in this area. How do you, I mean, how do you see the mining sector evolving more broadly? Do you think this is the the world is going your way or you're swimming against the tide?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

I was chatting with uh with a much younger person than me, sort of not long ago, and um just in passing they were they talked, oh, well, you work in a legacy industry. So I sort of I I did a bit of a double check because I hadn't really thought about it that way. Um uh when you think of all these the tech industries and so on. Um but I you know I would say that um uh mining is an industry which the world and humanity has needed since its origins, and I don't see any sign of that changing. Uh when you read articles about you know the the way the world is evolving in terms of electrification and so on, there's many arguments that in fact more metals are needed rather than less. And so, you know, if you look at the modern mining industry, it is a very high-tech industry. It's an industry which is um in relentless pursuit of efficiency in the way that it operates. Um, and one of the key pillars of our sustainability strategy in the company is around efficiency. How can we be as efficient as we can be in the use of energy, um, in the use of water, and in the use of the land that we need to actually develop our mining operations because that's a key part of the sustainability of our operations, and from the business perspective, it ties back to cost. You know, in the gold industry, we're what you would call a price taker. We don't control the price of our product. So everything about the efficiency of our business is how we can control our cost. So um, so you know, we have to have that relentless drive on efficiency.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah, and I think there's you know a lot of uh firms are trying to feeling this kind of pressure. And I think maybe the kind of crisis we are in seeing in the world at the moment, with supply routes being disrupted and geopolitical rivalry for different critical resources shows how natural resources are still so fundamental for the global economy. But then I think or then ask this question about if the firms involved in extracting those resources, what's their role in driving good outcomes? And one of the things we see broadly with um with the social progress data is that extractive economies tend to not be so good at turning their economic wealth into social progress outcomes. There's a few obvious exceptions like Norway and Australia, etc. But broadly, extractive economies are not so good at that, to creating social progress. But I suppose in some ways this is really about how governments are using the what's generated from the this kind of economic activity. Do you think there's more that businesses can do that can help to help governments to make sure that they reinvest the profits from extractives into the benefits to the wider community?

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, I mean that I mean, yeah, that that's definitely sort of a a challenge in many countries about how the benefits of resource extraction are used. And um, I think sort of where you can sort of see perhaps sort of better outcomes is where you know the extractive sector is part of an economy, but not like a dominant part of the economy. Um I think um uh you know, when you think about uh mining and the social outcomes from mining, it's something that we've done a lot of thinking about in Kinross over a long time. And as you mentioned, yeah, more in more recent years, um we've started to work with the Social Progress Index. Um and the the reason for that is that um we are very interested as a Company in understanding the actual development outcomes from mining operations. And it's been something that people have looked at for a long time. It's sort of hard to measure. And there are challenges about it, partly for the reasons you mentioned, because, you know, once a company has paid its taxes and royalties, obviously it has no control over how those are used. And, you know, one of the challenges in many jurisdictions is you pay your taxes centrally, but those don't always flow back in a proportionate manner then to the local area where the project is. You can have other examples or at the other end of the scale where there are local taxes, but then local governments don't always have the capacity to execute on those. And so you then have frustration because the money's there, but it's not being used effectively. So there's a fairly sort of even distribution of the flows of those benefits. And so we have seen through looking at the Social Progress Index, both at the municipal measurement scale for the country, but then also work we've done directly to measure it at the community level. We've been able to see how Paracatu as a municipality is well placed on that index compared to perhaps where it would be if it didn't have mining there contributing to the economy. And that's what we're trying to look for. You know, is there that extra benefit from having the mine there as a key driver in the local economy? Interestingly, at the community level in Paracatu, what we've also been able to do is do that work together with the community. And so it's not just a tool for measuring outcomes, it's a tool to inform strategy. Because what we can then do with the community is say, okay, well, here's the scorecard. And so where are the areas where you want to drive change in your community? You know, is it sort of better access to secondary education or is it focus on access to basic needs? And um what we see often in the case of Paraca 2 is there's a focus on the opportunity piece. Like, you know, people want those opportunities to improve quality of life. And then, you know, behind all of that, and it sort of goes a bit back to your original point, uh, we've found over the years the only way this all works successfully is through close engagement at the local government level. So we're always looking at that partnership approach, community, local government, and the company.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

So, Dominic, with um six very diverse locations, you must be on the road all the time.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

So um I do I do uh travel a fair bit and um uh yeah, that's um goes with, and I think in mining in general, you find that people seem to be on the road a lot, whether it's in in uh my area or the technical areas and others, it's um it's just uh part of the way of life.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

I mean, what a fascinating job. I mean, given that extraordinary diversity of communities and where you're you're operating, um, it's what a what a great job. Um, Tom Lick, um thank you very much. It's really great to understand both how you do it and also why you do it in to in in within Kin Ross. So that's been really, really helpful. Um, no one gets away from the Beyond GDP broadcast without making a a prediction. It can be about anything, it could be about the price of gold if you want, just for fun. It could be about the any of the it could be about the World Cup, anything you like. Give me a prediction.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Give me a prediction. Wow, that's uh that's a tricky one. I think um uh a prediction. Yeah, well, uh you've got me there. Um I think um uh yeah, no, I think well, I think I think sort of gold will continue to be a key part of the human economy and way of life uh for you know the next thousand years, just as it has been for the past four or five thousand years. No, I think nobody and nobody will find a way to make synthetic gold which is relevant.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I think we can bet on that one. I've got I've got a chemist, I'll ask, but I'm pretty sure unless you can build a star to make gold in, I think you've got no chance. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Dominic, thank you so much. It's been great having you on the podcast, and uh we look forward to hearing more about Kinross's work and collaborating together in the future. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

No, thank you, Michael, really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

If you want to learn more about going beyond GDP, Social Progress Imperative has the tools to help you. Our flagship, Global Social Progress Index, covers 170 countries with data going back to 2011. Through 57 different indicators, the Global Social Progress Index gives you a rigorous and comprehensive assessment of how countries are performing on real quality of life. For information on all of these tools, go to our website at socialprogress.org.