Part 1: How to Heal Divisions in Our Society

Can culture and history save us from growing societal divisions?

Michael Green invites Anwar Akhtar in this week's episode. This episode is divided into 2 parts. 

Anwar shares his front-line experiences working with Black and Minority Ethnic (BME) communities in Britain. From analyzing the impact of global events and the rise of Islam(o)-phobia to exploring the historical ties of trade, empire, and migration that shaped cities like Manchester, this conversation challenges how we view integration today.

We also explore the power of diverse representation in the arts and education. Anwar discusses producing the groundbreaking play Dara for the National Theatre, the first Muslim, Sikh, and Hindu history play on its main stage, and explains why diversifying the school curriculum is vital to preventing the alienation of working-class youth.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Beyond GDP, the social progress podcast, where we're talking to people from government, business, and civil society who are trying to create better communities and a better planet. In today's programme, we're going to be focusing on the issue of how do we heal divisions in our society? Social progress index data is clear that declining rights and growing intolerance are having a negative effect on social progress globally and fueling a rise in authoritarian populists who are really implementing programs that seem to be setting the world backwards. So, how do we actually build inclusive societies? How do we heal divisions? We know there's a lot of anger, we know there's a lot of division between people. How do we tackle that? How do we bring people together? Well, my guest today, Anwar Akhtar of the Somosa Media, knows all about that. He's an educator, he's an arts impresario, all focused working in Britain on bringing together black and minority ethnic communities, BME communities, and other communities around shared cultural and educational heritage. Anwar is really someone who knows the story on the front line, is someone who's really worth listening to Anwar, it's a great pleasure to have you on the Beyond GDP podcast. You are very much on the front lines tackling division and extremism within British society. I think what I'd really like to start with is from your perspective, and I think this is relevant beyond Britain to many other countries. And finally, what is driving this division and extremism that really is sort of pulling apart the fabric of our societies and is becoming an ever bigger problem?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I take if you take a slightly glass-half-full um analysis of that, I would say that we are facing really strong, strong challenges around division, populism, people exploiting the horror, and you know what I think is if not a genocide, close to a genocide in Gaza, the horrific death toll of the Palestinians and the state of um those poor people in Gaza living in literally you know horrendous conditions and the consequential health and disease and poverty and the increasing death toll because of that, and the sheer brutality of what Israel has done to a civilian population in Gaza. So I think there's lots of genuine anger, and I also think there is division in communities, and I think there is people that are exploiting those divisions, and on one level it's fairly straightforward. The optics, you know, are quite clear to see you've got GB News, you've got right-wing groups and hedge funds that have decided to demonize and target um Muslim communities in Europe as the other not belonging. And you know, the um the amateur historian in me says, you know, going on since the Crusades, nothing new here. And then you've also, I think, got very robust anti-racist civil society and campaign groups that are pushing back. So we've got a very brutal, nasty, vicious culture war going on, really, around some things that have been with us for a very long time around race, integration, identity, religion, migration. And I think there's stuff happening that is very much of our times around globalization and where we are with societies and uh particularly in Europe and the states. So um, you can't have globalization without people movement and diversity and multiculturalism. That's the story of trade and empires for millennia. And yeah, I always say Britain became a um multicultural society sometime around was it 1740 when Robert Clyde landed in Mumbai in the whole process of colonization and the East India Company. Um, you know, it started with stealth and trade and local treaties and local trading arrangements, and then providing security for um one or two princes and one or two rulers. And before you know it, it was full on colonization and exploitation. Um we all know that story. And you know, about 250 years after that, my parents left the Punjab in what was then Pakistan in the 1960s, um, was formerly part of India and landed in Manchester. And you look at Manchester's communities and diversity, and you look at the impact of trade in particular on Manchester and Cotinopolis, and most of not most, but a large part of Manchester's textiles and retail and commercial sector is now um worked in, run by British Asians and British Muslims and British Pakistanis, and in many ways that's similar to the story of Jewish migration. You know, you arrive with very little, and some folk go off to set off Marx and Spencer. So I think there's a lot of stuff, there's a lot of positivity around the way Britain has handled culture and migration and race and integration, and large parts of that I think uh this kind of I often find it quite funny because I teach this, and I often find myself smirking and chuckling as I teach it. I know um, but I mean I think one of the reasons why Britain has actually handled um race and culture and integration and migration very well is just the brilliance of the British political establishment at reinvention. So it's we went from let's not talk about empire, let's talk about the Commonwealth. We're all in it together now. Come and have tea with the Queen or the King, you know, at Buckingham Palace and have a garden party, and you know, let's um let's have gospel choirs at um Westminster Abbey as part of our royal kind of events and ceremonies now. Um I think Britain was very good at kind of moving away from the brutality of empire into sort of you know, we've got these shared common relationships and shared citizenship and shared heritage. And I think there's an element of one nation tourism, and there's an element of the Labour Party that's handled that very, very well. And you know, let's not talk about where the stuff in the British Museum came from, let's talk about our shared culture and our shared heritage. And I think to an extent that's that's actually been very positive. And I think black and Asian communities in Britain have actually been given ladders and roots into citizenship and ownership of the police and being part of the culture and part of that community, and almost the respect from the British establishment. I mean, the other part is um Britain's black and Asian communities have fought very, very hard for their rights, you know. Um, we should talk about the impact of McPherson and Skarman and the anti-racist movement, and I think that's made us a very sort of tolerant, inclusive society in many, many ways. And we see that in the representation of um black and Asian parliamentarians and leaders, and contrast with France, you know, and contrast our and I think there's an interesting conversation there. Now, having said all that, I think the world changed after 9-11. And I think one of the things that for you know a British-born Pakistani Muslim in his 50s, you know, my all my experience of racism was the National Front, the BMP, you know, some quite forceful comments from Norman Tebbitt about cricketing loyalties, you know, we all remember Thatcher's swamping speech. That's very, very different from working class young Muslims in Manchester and Bradford and Birmingham and London today, where the world is seen through a prism of Islamophobia, it's seen through a Hollywood narrative that has demonised Muslims in a way that's not far off how Jews were being demonised in the 1920s, 1930s, Europe, you know. And I think it's worth now that might be a very forceful, some might wince at that, but what I would say is put yourself in the mind of a working-class child in Bradford or Birmingham and see how the world views how you see yourself reflected in the media as the enemy within, as an alien, as always the body in every Hollywood movie, you know, that you know, you know, and things like London Has Fallen and all that kind of Hollywood 24 narrative, and then also think about um, and that explains why there's more religiosity amongst working-class Muslim communities in Britain, because then the message goes out, we're under threat, it's the crusades again. They want to wipe out Islam, and it it gets, you know, so you see more people with you see more boys with beards and three-quarter length trousers, and and that's very much about religious identity, right? That's very much almost. It's not dissimilar from when the Protestant community feels under threat in Northern Ireland, the bans get louder and the bonfires get bigger, you know, because it's everyone, man, the barricades were under a threat, you know. And that can so I think having said all that, I think we're doing quite well. I actually think we're doing very well. But the point that you're right to raise is we face very, very serious threats.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

So these threats, you know, are really around the sort of different extremists, almost at opposite poles to each other, who have a common interest in dividing us because they will do better if there's conflict. So come tell us how you're trying to tackle these extremists on both sides in your work with the Somosa media.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

So we do a lot of work around British Asian history and black and Asian history, and that's in large part because of I was in a very privileged position of having been the producer of the play Dara for the National Theatre, or production consultant and producer all combined, and that was a huge, huge juggernaut of a project because you know it was the first Muslim, Sikh, Hindu history play translated for Muddu and Punjabi on the main stage at the national, and it had a very significant impact. It's now very close to joining, it got compared to the Crucible and um Hamlet, and it's about to become a companion piece for the Crucible in A-level drama because it opens up a whole series of conversations about power, history, religion, authority, state. And so I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Just tell people quickly what the story's about because I think that's quite important.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So, I mean, very briefly, it's a moment in Indian history that's very comparable um to Charles I and Cromwell or Mary, um, Queen of Scots and Elizabeth. It's a moment where tensions between rulers around religion and state um imploded. So it's seen as a battle that laid in many people's minds the seeds for the later partition of India and Pakistan. So it was Dara was, in a sense, a very liberal Muslim prince who was about to inherit the great Mughal throne after Shah Jahan with the 16th century, so all that power, and he was a very he had very close relationships and friendships with um Hindu um preachers and leaders and Sikh gurus, and um whereas Arunzab, his younger brother, took a more kind of Islamic superior supremacy approach, and there was a civil war between them to inherit um the Mughal Empire and Dara won. And a lot of people see that as a moment that tensions between Muslim, Sikh, and Hindu erupted because the Mughals were very much in some ways like the Romans, they were very good. You know, Mughal rulers would marry Hindu princesses, have Sikh generals, and you know, they say the Mughals came to India and invaded and became Indian, whilst the English came to India and remained English. So, and then the Mughal Empire split, and Arunzab won the war and basically persecuted um Hindu and Sikh leaders. I think he beheaded one of the founders of the Sikh religion. Um, in very working class, similar to the Battle of the Boyne in Northern Ireland, it's a moment that has huge resonance amongst working class communities, and so and India today, obviously, Modi is all about trying to diminish the Mughal legacy and the Mughal story, whilst Pakistan have regiments in the army named after Aunzab. So it's a very visceral live history that's here with us today, and so the impact of putting that on the main stage, and if you like, there's lots of Greek and Roman and you know European history plays um in the English canon, you know, no shortage of stories about the Tudors. Um, and so to have the first Muslim Sikh Hindu history play in the English language canon that was on the main stage at the National and then you know has now been filmed for National Theatre Live had a huge educational impact, which brings me to I've gone off on a bit of a dire story there. There's much more available online, and perhaps I can share some links to the film and the play on social media. That brings me to diversity in the curriculum, which is where we've been doing a lot of work. Because of my background at Richmix as well, I've always been asked to go into schools and six forms and give talks and workshops. Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Do just quickly what's Richmix?

SPEAKER_02 14:52

So Rich Mix was a um huge art space in East London that was built in 2005, 30 million pounds, 60,000 square feet of cinemas, gallery, workspace, um, community media space, youth spaces. And I was a director that oversaw its development and helped set it up and launched the charity and oversaw an investment from the arts council and the Millennium Commission. So this was Lottery Money, London Development Agency, the Mayor's Office for London, and it was in a way the first national BME-led arts cultural space, and it's still, I'm very pleased and proud to say, operating 25 years later. So it's part of the national permanent now. It's you know, like the White Chapel Art Gallery or the Whitworth Art Gallery, or you know, Sadler's Wells Theatre, it's off that scale and respect and reputation. And I was the founder director, so um, I've got the grey hairs to show it as well. It was you know, it was any large-scale cultural regeneration project managing community politics, race, identity, and huge sums of public money. And I'm very proud that it came in on time, on budget, and you know, there's been what and it was I must emphasize this team effort. You know, there was a group of about 10-12 people that dedicated several years to making Richmix happen, and I was lucky to be the director that was the kind of public face and had the leadership role in that. So I spent a lot of time in schools and universities, and mainly six forms, 16. Um, it was a friend of mine that said, you know, the work that you're doing, there's lots of, you know, I must credit Jane Barnow with this. She said that you know there's lots of noise in chatter and culture wars about diversity in the curriculum. Dr. Jane Barmore teaches media and art at Westminster University. But there's actually very little content, there's very little that actually go that we can use in classrooms with our students, and you know, work like Richmix, work like Dara, the stuff that we've done with Radio 4, that that's that's teaching material that's actually really powerful. And my diary was becoming almost 50%, you know, during term time. Will you come to this school? Will you come to this 6-4? Will you come to this university? And much of this is friends, colleagues that are academics that are teachers, that are youth workers, and it struck me that I started thinking, you know, because I'm a bit of a noisy bugger and quite inquisitive, and I started thinking about diversity in the curriculum. I've never really given much thought to it in my 30s and 40s, it was all about building things or producing plays or setting up projects and you know, owning spati and so on, owning space venues, resources. Um, education was something it was nice to go and talk about my work, you know, and I found it as someone that was a bit of a teenage tear away. The idea of being a role model filled me with some amusement in you know my older years. But one of the things that struck me was if you actually look at teaching materials in British schools, given the impact that Britain's BME communities have had on our national story and our island story, they're shocking little, you know, and so the left have got a point with you know, I think it's not helpful when you rage about it, but the left have got a really profound point about our curriculum is so so Eurocentric. Um, when you're especially in places like Birmingham and Bradford, where you've got schools that you know have got large BME populations, you know, if the teachers are all white and the curriculum's all white, um, and your only engagement um is with white people in the context of some didactic authority and overseeing power, that can be quite alienating. And I actually started looking at this, and it was like, okay, great, Othello Shakespeare. I don't want to get contentious about this, but I'm not sure he's great role model material, despite the importance of the play. Um, and then you've got Killer Mockingbird, yeah, and and that's pretty much it actually in the literature, and so I started thinking about how can we get more stuff into schools, and started talking to teachers who are incredibly hardworking, you know. And I I think one of the things that I've learned and I've seen it is we have been we're in danger of destroying one of our most precious resources, which is our teachers, with this burden of exams and stats and um quantitative analysis of what's actually a very qualitative process, yeah, which is passing on knowledge. Yeah, you couldn't put what I've said to you into a pie chart with some stats. And you know, and I think we have some we've gone wrong somewhere in teaching where we've overburdened stats and exams and quantitative data.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

If you want to learn more about going beyond GDP, Social Progress Imperative has the tools to help you. Our flagship, Global Social Progress Index, covers 170 countries with data going back to 2011. Through 57 different indicators, the Global Social Progress Index gives you a rigorous and comprehensive assessment of how countries are performing on real quality of life. For information on all of these tools, go to our website at socialprogress.org. If you want to learn more about going beyond GDP, Social Progress Imperative has the tools to help you. Our flagship, Global Social Progress Index, covers 170 countries with data going back to 2011. Through 57 different indicators, the Global Social Progress Index gives you a rigorous and comprehensive assessment of how countries are performing on real quality of life. For information on all of these tools, go to our website at socialprogress.org.