Interview- The May Family; Diana, Brittany and Deanna

In this deeply moving episode, we honor the life and legacy of Officer Rich May through the voices of the people who knew him best. His wife, daughters, and fellow officer Ed share firsthand memories of who Rich was, the night he was killed, and the long-lasting impact that loss had on their family and careers.

What emerges is more than a story about tragedy — it’s a reflection on duty, grief, resilience, and the need for true support for officers’ families after loss. From the chaos of that night to the years of carrying it forward, this conversation reveals the human side of policing and the cost that violence leaves behind.

Rich’s memory lives on through his family, his brothers and sisters in law enforcement, and the mission to ensure that no family is left to carry that burden alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

The 148 project exists to give a voice to law enforcement from the officers' perspective, from their exposure in the communities they serve while honoring the experience and the victims they contact. Through honest conversation, lived experience, and the discipline of jujitsu, we explore resilience, accountability, healing, and the shared humanity that exists on all sides of the badge. Our mission is to foster understanding, strength, and growth on and off the mat. This episode was originally recorded in May, and unfortunately, the audio for Ridge May's family was lost. So we re-re-recorded it in July. And so what you're going to hear is a little bit of the recording from May and a little bit of the recording from July all put together into one episode. You'll hear my husband's side of the story. You'll hear his wife's side of the story and his two of his daughter's side of the story. So it's a very touching episode and one that has touched our family greatly. And I hope you enjoy the recording. Today on the podcast, we are joined by the May family. Today we're going to dive into our episode on Rich May. My husband Ed was there at the time. So we're going to tell his story a little bit first. And then we will go into the family story. Can you tell me about the night that Rich was shot?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

That was my first day off. So Rich and I shared a beat. And uh that was my first day off, it was his first day on. So uh that would have been my call if I was working. I got a call. I was home with my son Will, who was uh very young at the time, and uh Paul Norris called my phone and uh informed me of what was going on. I threw a Will in his car seat, called his mom, and uh she was at a restaurant, and I dropped Will off and uh had a four-diesel truck, and I think I made it to EPA in 20 minutes from Gilroy. Um I actually blew through the inner and outer perimeter and uh spoke to Olipio, kind of got the uh Lieutenant Tom Olipio at the time got the uh low down. Um I believe I just ran back to the PD and threw my gear on, being that it was my um days off, I had no uniforms in my, they were all cleaners. So I I put a black pair of BDUs on, um a zip-up black hoodie with flames down the the arms. And I put on a ray jersey, uh, like one of those old uh football netted jerseys that had our patches and the star on the chest, and that was my uniform through threw a duty belt on and uh went back to the scene and uh went and saw Rich in the driveway and uh I don't remember the exact timeline of how long I was there, but they uh one of the corners took off his body race and put it in my hand. And I gave it to Olipio for evidence. When I found out who it was that I'd killed Rich, I've had a uh a lot of dealings with that dude, Beef Pryor, and uh when I found out that he was still in the area, Olipio grabbed me and said, get a team and put put him together and go find them. So that's what I did. And I'm not gonna say their names, because I that's their story to tell. There's four of us that went out and that night and hunted for him.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

And I'll just leave it at that. What we did that night is uh our story.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Can you tell me a little about a little bit about your relationship with Rich?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I had known Rich, of course, he had only been there a short period of time, but we'd been on plenty of calls where I was working overtime, he was working overtime, towing cars. Um we talked a lot about the family, um, where he was from, his time in the the Marine Corps, who he liked and who he didn't like at the department. And we talked instant a lot about that because we had some uh disdain for the same people.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

And we had talked offline offline a little bit earlier about that night with his family, and you had known this known the suspect before. Can you tell us the story how you knew him?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Aaron Powell He was a member of a certain gang of East Palo Alto, one of the the longest standing gangs in East Palo Alto, which their home turf was just around the corner from where Rich was shot. Um I'd had many dealings with that dude that fought that dude before. Um had chased him in that same area uh prior to Rich's shooting before, um, put cases on him. And uh prior to that incident, um, he had got into a traffic collision on Illinois and sustained a head injury. And uh that's one of the identifying marks that we put out that night that he had had a cut on his on his face. But yeah, he uh and for everybody listening, he yeah, he was a gangster, but by name only. He was one of the and I'm just gonna be compl he was a absolute pussy. He was a pussy. He couldn't fight for shit. Uh he didn't have a lot of respect within the gang because he was a pussy. Um he was if if I if I was to put a name to him, he would be like Eeyore from winning the poo. He was just a poo-butt, nobody. And when you put hands on him, he cried like a baby.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And how did Rich's how did how did that night affect your career?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Well, I can I've never told anybody, but I'll say it now. I hold a lot of shame. I don't know if the shame is the right word or or regret that I wish that would have been my call that I was working.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Um Rich didn't have a lot of history with that dude.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I did. And if it just would have been one day for my shift, it would have been my call.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

And you've carried that throughout throughout your career.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Excuse me. So after that night, I made a promise that that there wouldn't be a gangster in San Mateo County that would be safe. That I would make it my mission to put as many as I could in prison or the cemetery. And you know, I thought about a lot about this leading up to a this podcast, and it's you know, this is not meant to be comical or or or any other way than what it is. But I'm a big tombstone fan, the movie with Kurt Russell. And there was a scene in that movie where um his brother was shot and his other brother was was killed, and they were putting Virgil Earp under the train, and Ike Clanton is on the platform, and he's gonna kill Virgil and with another cowboy. And Kurt Russell shoots one of them and knocks Ike Clanton down, puts a spur right to his face, cuts him open, and he says, You called down the thunder. Now you got it. And hell is gonna come with me.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

And it and it did for a lot of years. For a lot of people. Yep. And you focused on gangs after that for the rest of your career. I did. Because of Richmond that night.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

And what wellness or is the new word, but did the PD offer you any or and or anyone on the PD any counseling or anything to help you guys through that incident?

SPEAKER_00 8:42

No. Nothing. The uh two days later, um, of course, uh, the sheriff's office came in, they were handling our calls. I don't believe I had taken a shower yet. I was still in the same clothes from that night, and I was told, um, there's a news reporter here that wants to do a story, go take him out. I was uh I was shocked that they uh first of all wanted to put a reporter in with me right after two days, two plus days, whatever it was, right after, and a cameraman in the back, why why the fuck are you making me talk to this person? You know, and uh in my car, and I can remember driving down midtown in the area of where the gang was, and the the radio blasts out. I got one running for me. And back then, I believe the sheriffs were wearing the still the blue powdered shirts, and I'm driving down the road and I'm hearing the radio traffic and they're coming towards me. So I just looked at the reporter, I said, Don't move, stay here. And I ran to where I knew that dude was gonna be going, and and I w I caught him in the back of the house and uh caught him. I should have never been on the street that day.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

And how have you tried to recover yourself from that incident?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Recover?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

You just do your job and try and make those people as miserable as you can.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

And you did a good job of that. You throughout your 25-year career, you put a lot of people in jail, a lot of gangsters in jail. You wrote the book on An, I think, in the county. So I think that you honored if you honored memory the best way you could and did what you could.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Aaron Powell And shortly after we I got put on the FBI Gang Task Force to combat that gang, and we did a good I believe they did a good job.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Aaron Powell Did you and Eric talk about that when he was here?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

No.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

No? Can you talk about that a little bit of that case?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

No, we didn't sealed.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Okay. And personally, how now you haven't you know you haven't talked about it in almost 20 years? How does it still affect you now?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Aaron Powell You think about it a lot and the regret what you could have done better. But uh I know every year I do something on that date. Um the last 20 years we did uh just a memorial roll with another member here um who just happens to be a a SEAL and he stepped up, he was the only one that that wanted to do it or was physically capable of doing it. But we rolled nonstop for 33 minutes. And uh then after that took about a two-minute break and then it did a 20-minute roll for the anniversary.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So that's a lot of rolling, you know?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, with the big old seal.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yes. You know, but there hasn't been a lot of support over for you over the years and in general, and how's that uh how has that affected you? How do you expect people to respond and how do they uh physically respond?

SPEAKER_00 11:53

I didn't expect much out of East Palo Alto, especially once I left. You know, it it East Palo Alto, East Palo Alto, the you know, the certain the people that I really liked there are no longer there. Um I still talk to them, but the the that department's it should have been taken on by the sheriff's office years ago. It's it's in it. And it's starting from the leader down. You know, the leader who's there now. I I classify two kinds of law enforcement officials. You have cops, you have police officers. He's a police officer by name only.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So he's uh not as big as a fan.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

If you could change anything about the response after, what would you what would you change, knowing now how it affects you for the rest of your life?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I would have let more of us handle the search for him. Um when he came out of that car in the back on Sacramento Street and was stopped by two officers, um, they didn't even know who he was. And I was with my team in another portion doing something else, and Olipio contacted me and said, go to go there and see if that's our guy. And Chris Adair and I scooted over there, and uh he was sitting on the corner, Saka University, handcuffed, bleeding from his ass, whining like a little baby, talking about his injuries. And I remember I picked him up, um, carried him. When I say carried him, I picked him up and I threw him in the back of my patrol car. And he was whining and complaining the entire time, like a baby, like the coward he was. We drove him from Sacking University to the CP was at 2415 University, which was our station at the time, which is less than a block and a half. That was the longest drive I've ever taken. Because and I can say it now that I'm retired, um I could have, trust me, I thought about just ending him right there to where there would be no trial. But then and, you know, when I when I looked over my right shoulder and I saw uh Adair and we book both looked at each other, we were thinking the same thing. Um don't know why we didn't, but um bought him back and we took him out of the car in the parking lot 2415, and there was hundreds, hundreds of cops there. SWAT teams, bear cats, detectives from every agency. You could hear a pin drop when we pulled them out. And I looked at all the eyes, and they were all thinking the same thing. That was the hardest thing. One of the hardest things that I had to do was hand him over to the Detective Bureau to take them upstairs.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Can you give your younger self advice on how to handle everything after? And how do you think that you should have had more support?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Aaron Powell wasn't a thing, but we did when I say there wasn't any support, there wasn't any support from the agency or the county, but we did have each other. There was the the the the guys that were close to me and I was close to them, we had each other and we we and we we did talk about it. We you know, and and you know, what you're talking about we were in our 20s at the time, so we didn't put all ourselves out there, but we did we did try and talk about some of the stuff and get it off our chest. But um no, there wasn't really it was just basically put it in a box and shove it down.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

For 20 years. Yeah. Is there anything now that you're doing differently? Or what advice if you because your son is in his twenties and he is on a sh the sheriff's department, what would you say to Will if it happened, or what would you do different with Will?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Make sure your dog's good at tracking. Because they brought a tracking dog in that night that was shit and tracked from and couldn't find he was bleeding. There's scent everywhere, and he was not a hundred and plus yards away from where he shot Rich, hiding in a in an apartment building like a coward. Um I I think we could have brought some better equipment out there and better personnel than the people that were running the show should have brought out some some good shit to find him because it wouldn't shouldn't have been that hard. Looking back, you know, into my career as a supervisor. Of course it's a chaotic scene, and and you know, ever there's hundreds of different agencies there, and and everybody wants to be the boss. But if you have such a tight perimeter, every fucking house should have been searched.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

And, you know, I I know there's laws and civil liberties, but every door should have been kicked in, every house should have been searched because if you would have done that, you would have found him.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, and there's extended circumstances you don't know what he still had on him.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

You know, and he he his phone was pinging uh and hitting off uh one of his partners who was driving around the area um trying to find him and pick him up. And I was in the car with Angel, and we heard it come over, and his and CHP had stopped him on East Bay Shore in his truck, and uh we heard his name get runned over the air. So Angel and I went there, and I'm still to this day, I'm sure the two CHP officers are still wondering what happened. Angel and I got out, we walked right past the CHP officers, I went up to the driver's window, he was seatbelted in, and I always carried a long fixed blade knife on my my duty belt or on my thigh rig. And uh I walked up and I grabbed him and I started to pull him out through the driver's window, and uh he was caught with a seatbelt. And uh I took my blade out and I cut the seatbelt off, and we basically drug him back to my car and took him back to the CP. Never said one word to the CHP officers. And uh that's how I got my nickname that night.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

So I didn't know that. And so we have a student at our academy now, and his dad has the same name, and we're very close to that family. Can you tell me about can you tell me about that conversation that you had with him? Because you couldn't say his name for a very long time.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Um and he's a wonderful, wonderful man. His wife trains here, his kids train here, but he had the same name as the dude that shot Rich. First and last name. Um and I love the dude to death. He he's an integral part of our academy. But I never told him that. And he didn't know for a long time until my business partner, Eric Acha, who uh was a retired officer, um told him, Has it ever mentioned anything about your name? And he's like, No. And Eric was the one that told him, and uh he came up and apologized about his name.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Aaron Ross Powell And how did it affect him when it happened? Because he got calls at the time because they thought it was him.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, he he being first and last name the same, um him uh friends and family thought he was the suspect.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

So And he's now one of an integral part, him and his family are now an integral part of our academy, and his son and his his wife, um, you know, they're volunteer coaches, and everything comes around full circle. Everything happens for a reason, like we were talking about earlier. Uh Rich's number is 33. Um, and things happen in our lives because the number 33.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

So I do have the badge on my chest tattooed.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Mm-hmm. As a memorial tattoo. Yep. And what is it r what does it remind you of every time that you see it?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Just everything. Just that day, the stuff that, you know, that I've said today that I've I've never said, and but there's still things that I did that night that I'll never say.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Um, and the guys that were with me won't ever say it either.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Right. So And you were all s all so close till this day. You mean you all still have communication with each other.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

You know. Chris and Ron have been with you for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

An angel.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

An angel. Diana, can you tell me the story of how you met Rich?

SPEAKER_04 21:16

So I met Rich, I believe it was the fall of '93. And I was just a baby, of course. And I was working at a credit union, and I he had gotten he had come in and got a car loan. So I had done the loan for him, and for some reason he had to come in a couple times. And so, of course, I I if I remember correctly, I do believe every time he came in, he had Deanna. So at that time, like I Deanna wasn't even two. She was, yeah, she was still just a toddler. She was walking, but you know, and I had already had Britney. And so I think the last time he came out, he just decided that he couldn't afford to buy another car. So he was gonna ask me out. So and the girls. Lauren or Brittany and Deanna went with us on our first date. And so and Rich he loved Disney movies. And back then it was Aladdin. So he could, he could, he knew every word to Aladdin. And so we went back. He had already owned his home. He was we were both 20 and he had already bought his first house. So we went back to his house and watched Aladdin with Warren, or I'm sorry, with Brittany and Deanna. And so just went from there.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

So let me back up. So you never approved his loan? Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_04 22:30

I did approve his loan. He did get the cover.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

But he he I for some reason, usually the he he came, he had to come in more than normal for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

I can't sound suspicious to me.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

I know. Weird. And and he wasn't shy. What's and I do remember because you know, at the time I was a single mom with a with a daughter, and I'm like, that's all I need is another kid. And and so I I took the chance and it all worked out great.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And so what what kind of car did he buy? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 23:01

You don't want to know. So good. No, it was a it was it was a commuter car because he was driving back and forth to Lompok. So we live in we live in the county of Santa of Santa Barbara County, Orchid. So we're we're in Orchid, we're not in Santa Maria. So uh Lompok is probably 20, 30 minutes. I'm sure he didn't drive the speed limit to work ever, but it was just his a little commuter car back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

It wasn't like a Corvette Camaro, something fancy.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

No, no, he he no, no. It was a little a little Honda hatchback. Yeah, it was the turtle car. The turtle car. We called it the turtle car. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Was it green?

SPEAKER_04 23:39

It was green. It was a little green. It was a little green Honda hatchback, yeah. Yeah. So um, and we got married in '95.

unknown 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

And Lauren was born in '96. Yeah. And I I participated in their first dance. Yes, she did. I couldn't be away from my. I think I like threw a tantrum. Deanna was Deanna was, let's see, you were. She was only, I don't think Deanna was probably three, not quite four. And she was a little was attached to my yes, my dad. She loved her dad.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

And and how did how did he propose?

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Well, so we every week we had a with the guys that he was on shift work with shift with, we went to somebody every, I think every week we went to a different person's house for a barbecue or something. And so we were going over to one of the guys that he worked with. Everybody on his he chose to make it a big deal about everybody. Kind of what he did. So yeah, he he proposed in front of everybody at the little dinner we were having. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

So then he went from Longpoke, and then how how long was he Longpoke before he went to East Palo Alto?

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Uh he started in Longpoke in 89. Did I say 98? It was 89, 89, yeah. And then uh let's see, I think he started in while he was there, what, to 2004? Probably is when he went to when he started an EPA.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

And what why did he choose EPA? What was what was his d did he discuss that with you?

SPEAKER_04 25:13

He needed a change of pace at Wampoke. Let's just leave it at that. You know how you guys can be sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

So and his his mom and his stepdad lived up there. He did l he lived in the Bay Area for a short time before he became a police officer, not very long. And that with the agents, a lot of you know, Wampoke was at the time, it was kind of like, you know, a lot of guys would start there and then they would transfer to Santa Maria. So a lot of the guys that he had worked with had come to Santa Maria, and I guess he didn't want to work under them, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

And then did he ever talk to you about East Palo Alto? Do you like did he like being up there?

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Funny you asked that because he was in the process of no, he had told me he was working on getting out of East Pala of EPA. We had that discussion that he was he knew he wanted to leave East Palo Alto. I he I my memory serves me that he did not plan on staying in East Palo Alto. And that's you know, part of my frustration with the field is because he didn't want he wasn't gonna stay there. He didn't, you know, that's just part of my frustration. But he wouldn't have stayed there. He would have just done his time and then gone to another agency.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Whether where that would have been, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

So like a lot of us did.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yes. Diana, can you tell me your story of that night? Um it was January 7th, 2006, and um Richard it was a Saturday, and you know, we lived we live about three hours south of um East Palo Alto. So he left on Friday night to go to work, and um the girls and I just did our uh normal routine. Um that evening I got a phone call from uh his sister telling me that there had been an officer involved shooting in East Palo Alto that I should try and call him. And so prior to January, he had been shot at, I believe it was August, and um I kind of got the same phone call. There had been an officer involved shooting call rich. So I did back in August, and um everything was okay. He had he had been shot at, but he wasn't injured. So this time in January, when this happened, I kind of had the same, the same thought, you know, oh, he'll get to he'll answer the phone, or when he can get to his phone, he'll call me, everything will be fine. Um so needless to say, he didn't answer his phone. Um at the time, he had only worked for East Palo Alto for less than two years. So I did not have a phone number for the department. I just had his um his cell number. He wasn't answering that. So I was in the process of trying to find a phone number online for the department. Um while I was doing that, that's when two deputies came to my door. And when I saw them, I knew something obviously was wrong. So I just, you know, pretty much asked them, was he okay? And they said no. And I think they had told me that he'd been killed. Um so at the time we had three daughters. Our oldest was Brittany, who was 17, Deanna, who was 13, and Lauren was nine. Um, Deanna was up in Redwood City living with her mom, and Lauren and Brittany were here with me. Um my first thought was I I knew I was going to be upset and I didn't want to do it around my kids. So I um I ran next door to the neighbor's house. And um Brittany had known that he had been shot at previously a few months prior. So I think I had um Brittany knew also that he had been shot at this night, that I had got the same phone call. So uh I ended up having to tell Brittany that night that he had been killed, but um I wasn't sure how I was what to do about Warren. So uh the sheriff's department for the for Santa Barbara County that I live in, they're the ones that came and told us that he had been killed. Um, East Palo Alto, from what I understand, didn't have a contact information for me. So they had to call his previous agency, which was Lompoke, and somehow they were able to get them my address. So um I believe it was the sheriff's department had told me that they that this highway patrol had offered to fly me and one other person up to East Palo Alto. So I couldn't take Brittany and not Lauren. I couldn't take Lauren and not Britney, so I decided I would take my sister. Um my sister was camping, so we had to, it took some time to find her. Um so my kids just end up going to my parents' house, and then my sister and I, when we get to the airport here in Santa Maria, uh an officer from East Palo Alto flew with the CHP officer, and I think I had met him. Um I believe it was Tim Brackett. I had met him one time while Rich was working. So while we were flying up there, I had, of course, more questions because I really didn't have any details at all. I just knew he had been killed. I didn't know anything else, really. So we're in a four-man CHP plane, and um we had headphones on while we were flying. At the time, only one of the headsets in the backseat worked. So if my sister wanted to talk to either the pilot or to Tim, she had to wear the headset. If I wanted to talk, then I did. So we were taking turns with that. And at one point, the closer we got to Palo, we were going to be flying into the Palo Alto airport. Um my sister had the headset on. I was taking a break and we went to land. And part of our trauma was the plane almost crashed. So the CHP officer, something happened. He hit something on the runway. So he ended up taking us back to San Jose to land there. We later found out it was because the runway was longer and he figured we were gonna have to crash land. So from there, um the department wanted to put us in a helicopter because there seemed to be a lot of urgency to get us to East Palo. I told them no, I wasn't gonna do that, you know, just take us in a patrol car. And that's one thing if I could change about the way that night went was I was never told before we left Santa Maria, I wasn't ever told you're not going to be able to see him. I was under the impression possibly no one said where he was, where his body was. No one said he's at the hospital, no one said he's at the morgue, no one said, Diana, you know, um, take your time getting up there because you can't see him. And if I could change that, it would be because, you know, I had to tell Britney yes that he had been killed, but now she has to stay the night with her little sister, her nine-year-old little sister, and she has to keep that to herself. And that was very difficult for her at 17 to not tell her that her dad had been killed. So, you know, if I could change things about that particular part of this, you know, our story would be if somebody I if somebody would have told us, told me, you know, exactly where he was and what was going to happen when we when we got to East Palo Alto. So um my sister and I, we, you know, somebody from East Palo Alto, a couple officers picked us up and they I don't I don't even remember exactly where we taken. We were taken to, I think, a community center or something in East Palo Alto, where I I believe the majority of all the officers that were working for the department at the time were there, except for whoever Ed and whoever else was out looking for Alvarez at the time. Um and Deanna was there, and I remember Deanna being there, but I don't remember really if I we talked much.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Now we are going to hear from Deanna and her account of that night.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

I had talked to my dad earlier in the day, and he had asked me what I was going to be doing. You know, it was a Saturday, and um, I had plans to go to see a movie with one of my friends, and he had said, you know, call me after, let me know how it is. And so we go to the movie theater um in Redwood City where I was living at the time. Um, and you know, we come out of the movies, I call my dad, he doesn't answer, and I just think nothing of it. He's at work. Um went home at some time later. I think that it was really late, but I don't know because it's January gets dark at like four o'clock. So it could have been five, six, I'm not sure. Um, my dad's sister called me directly and had asked to talk to my bio mom, um, which they had known each other, um, and that's how my mom and dad had met. But so I I didn't think anything of that either. Um I took the phone to her, I went back to my room. Her husband at the time came to my doorway a couple minutes later and asked me why is your mom crying. And I said, I I don't know. Um, so I went out to the kitchen where she was. She had just gotten off the phone. Um, and I just kind of knew that it had something to do with my dad. I I had this gut feeling that something had happened to him. Uh, she had told me that he had been hurt at work and didn't know how bad it was. But I just I think at that point I I pretty much knew that he was gone. Um, no one directly told me that he had been killed and that he was dead. I don't have any memory of someone telling me that flat out. I thought, okay, he's hurt. Maybe I'll go to the hospital and see him. I was pretty upset, but I think I kind of knew deep down that he was gone. Um, and so we were just at the house. I think things were starting to come out on the news. Um, and a couple of officers, maybe from East Palo Alto, I'm not sure, had shown up at our house and said that we needed to go to this, I think just a community center. Um, and that's where they took us, and we just sat there until Diana got there. Um, I just remember being in this kind of shared space. There was a lot of people in there, I think officers. Um, at some point, my dad's mom had showed up, I think. Um they brought us a ton of food, and I remember thinking, like, I'm not hungry at all. I just remember a ton of food being there. Um and then Diana got there at some point, and then we just all kind of left and went to our homes or wherever we were staying. So I'm not sure why we all had to be there in that moment. Um, and I do, I do think I um once I got there, the the chief at the time um he sat me down and explained to me what had happened. And I do remember um wanting to know more details than he had given me. So I wanted to talk to the other two officers that were also on patrol that night. And I I I knew Deanna was in the room and I didn't want Deanna to I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want Deanna to hear these details that I was gonna hear, that I wanted to hear, because I knew I wanted to know exactly where he shot. And so looking back, I do, you know, I I do feel bad for the two officers that I had them relive what had just happened to them. And I think, you know, I was I wasn't so much shocked and in clearly trauma and grief that I I didn't I couldn't stop and think about what what the officers were going through until much later. Um but I had them take me outside and to explain tell me exactly what had more details of what had happened. So um, but then after I think after that we I I was taken, my sister and I were taken back to uh Rich's sister's house where we were staying. And did you go home? Yeah, I just went home. Yeah. And then I met up with with you guys the next day.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

So the next part of the story is Brittany's story. Um, it's gonna go into her account of that night, how it affects her kids, Rich's grandkids to this day, and how it ha has affected their family dynamics. Can you tell us about that? So you had the night with your little sister and you knew it you know what happened, but you couldn't tell her.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

So can you tell us about that night? It was hard and really, really sucks.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

And I know we don't always say, oh, I wish we did this. So real quick, back's the fly. He hated to fly. So I feel like that and not a joking way that that was just kind of like, see, I told you, don't like I don't like to fly. Like his last little like you just didn't like to fly. So that was just not iron, not ironic, it's not to joke about because it could have been bad, but there's anyways, but um no, it was hard. It was the longest drive ever. But I knew because mom was like rushed out and she went over to our neighbor's house. And I mean, there was also the chaplain there that night. Once I saw the chaplain, I knew. And then um she left, and then I stayed at my Lauren and I stayed at my nan's and papas, but I I knew because mom told me at our neighbor's house. And my nan and I, we talked about it when Lauren went to bed. And I was only 17. I was a senior in high school, and that was very hard being a senior, trying to enjoy all these senior activities. And um, yeah, that drive was very hard. And then um we got to our family's house in Menlo Park, Atherton, and um a lot of people were there. Um, and that's when when mom told Lauren I was very hard. Um, but I feel like I've still always been very protective over my younger sister. And even though she's not here today, and um, but yeah, I was very hard for sort of that.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

And so how does it affect his his grandchildren? Because you have children now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

It's hard. Um we're going to DC on um Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Um and I think they'll have a good time and they we talk about him and they know him, or we they know of all this things, not all the details, obviously. Um, but we're open about it. And we um have met some families who who lost an officer in down south and I think the same year, uh in 2006. Oh sorry, and um they're they start out as friends, and that's our family now. That's our like police family, uh, because they've gone through the same stuff. And um, yeah, so we can lean on each other, kind of the same position with different stuff. So, but I think it will be a huge eye opener for my kids when they go to DC. So it's the only memorial police thing they've ever really they've ever gone to. We talk about it, but I want, you know, them to know about the person that he was. Now, yes, he was an officer, yes, this is what happened, but there's all these other things. Yes. Uh-huh. And that's important too, and that's what we talk about. But um, we've gotten support from the family down south who they have grandkids too, a wife, and that we're really close with them. And so I think that's helped um our family as well. And have the grandkids been to DC before to see his memorial?

SPEAKER_04 42:27

No.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Okay. I haven't been to California. Well, my daughter Abilene's been to the California Memorial, but she was like one. She doesn't remember it. But I'm this will be the first time you're going to DC. Spice Mark will be very overwhelming for them, but I think they'll also love it at the same time. Family dynamics are very hard in when you lose an officer. Um people, oh no, I mean every family's different, but people in our family um love the attention. Not my mom and sisters, but other family members. And it felt like different family members were, oh, I I saw about me. I wanted attention. Or they would say that they would take care of us when they were not taking care of us. And my sister Lauren is very strong and told a family member to basically like, you need to stop. You need to stop telling people that you took care of us because you weren't. And I but I think in her mind, maybe she thought she was. I don't know. But um, it was kind of like, oh, who's like who's grieving the most? Oh, look at me kind of thing. And it felt like this competition. And I think it was hard because we weren't up here. We were down south, and we still had to, you know, continue life and they have this life up here and not including us. And there was a function, and I wrote a Facebook comment on it, and I guess it should have gone about it different ways. This is like, I don't know, 10 plus years ago. Basically, like saying, like, I wish, you know, if you guys put all this effort, these are numbers into Our lives in respecting his wife and children. Um but they didn't. They deleted the comment and whatever. But it's just it's just who can, I don't know, breathe the bet or the most. I don't know. It was just an intention thing. Um, but it really drove our family up. I don't want to say we were super close before. They may thought we were, I don't know, but um, and they haven't treated us the best in 20 years. And we do not have a relationship with them, and we no longer want a relationship with them. And it's very sad. It's really heartbreaking. I don't think Reach would want that either. He would be extremely pissed off at the way that his sister and stepfather have treated us, treating their own daughters. And the list goes on. And after 20 years, we're sick of it. We're sitting, we're done sitting back. And, you know, so thank you for having us on here. And maybe they will hear it. And we have voiced our concern to them, but I don't think they really care. I don't think it's just been about them and their show and how they portray everything.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

And it's not it's not the truth. Now back to Diana and Deanna. And then how long did you stay up in um the Bay Area?

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Well, that's another thing. So back then there seemed to be a rush for the funeral. So he was killed on Saturday. Um, I wasn't, I believe, I must have been told that night at some point that I wouldn't be able to see him until after the autopsy. And well, and they didn't he wasn't caught, I don't believe, Ed, if I'm correct, until probably six o'clock Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Yeah, it was roughly 18 hours after it happened that he was taken in custody.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

Right. So the autopsy, I remember I had never met the chief before. I mean, again, you know, he worked there for less than two years. I wasn't, you know, I was busy here in Santa Maria working full-time, taking care of the kids when he was up there working. So, you know, on occasion, we would go up on the weekend if he was working and stay at his mom's or something. But I I didn't know really any of the officers. I didn't know the chief, obviously, but I I do remember something kind of came over me and I wasn't, I didn't, I was adamant I wanted to see my husband, and they wouldn't let me see him. And um they I didn't I didn't get to see him until Wednesday morning. He was killed Saturday night. I didn't get to see him till Wednesday morning. And I believe the funeral was probably I think Thursday or Wednesday. It was Thursday, I think so. It was Thursday. So we obviously we were there all that time, and then um I knew I was gonna need to have another funeral here in in Santa Maria, where we live, because this is where our home is, this is where our friends are, our my family's here. So we left the funeral up there was Thursday. Um we left Friday, came home and had another funeral here on Saturday. Looking back, I I it I don't, I think to me, it was just I never really thought. To me, it was just, well, girls, we got to do this again. It was never, I should have, I I I wish that I would have given I just the girls didn't say they didn't want to go to the funeral to either funeral. They never said any of that. But, you know, I kind of regret putting my kids through two funerals. You know, during the funeral, there was, you know, I didn't have a lot of I I had a little bit of say in what was done, but not a lot. It was I was be I was told who was speaking at my at my husband's funeral. I wasn't asked who did you, you know, there I did have a little bit of say, but like I said, not a lot. So that was a little frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Did did they ever tell you why, and I don't have the answer to this, why they needed to have it so soon.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

No, no, and I, you know, and again, you know, I wasn't shocked. I mean, you know, I went from even though he was a police officer, even though he'd been a cop for 15 years, you know, still it never dawned on me. And I don't know why, it never dawned on me that something could happen to him. You just don't think it will happen to you ever. It's one of those things you don't think will ever happen to you. And to jump a little bit back to what you were saying, I mean, I think we were also in shock. Two funerals, I just thought that makes sense. He was working up there, we did the funeral up there, we came down here, did the funeral down here, and I just kind of we just went with it as like this is what needs to happen and this is what we're gonna do. And yeah, and they didn't know it wasn't, uh I don't I don't remember anybody asking me. It was kind of like, well, this is where we're where we're having it, okay. Uh, this is what we're doing, okay. I remember, you know, they took me to the mortuary, or even before we went to the mortuary, we were I told them I hadn't I had decided he was gonna be cremated, you know, although he and I had never discussed that. That's another, you know, that's something that if I was gonna give advice to anybody listening to this, is tell your loved ones, have it in writing what you want, if you want to be buried or cremated, because he did we didn't talk about it. We were only 38 years old. So I had decided to have him cremated, and um I remember being told, well, you're gonna you basically he still needs to be in the casket. And the exact word was for the show. And I'm like, okay, you know, so in my mind, I was thinking, well, I'm certainly not paying for any of this. So, you know, I they took me to the mortuary, I picked out a casket, he was a he was in the casket, and then he was transported down here for the second funeral. But no, nobody ever said how why they we needed to have it so early. And, you know, back then, you know, we didn't have cell phones with pictures on them. So, you know, the funeral that we had in San Jose, you know, I didn't we couldn't I couldn't have a lot of photos because I when I left my house Saturday night, I didn't pack for a funeral. You know, I didn't know what I was doing. So yeah. Now I think I think law enforcement, I I think they wait a little bit longer, at least I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

But and listening to Ed's stories, what other question did you did you have for him specifically for that night?

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Where he was? I can't think I can't remember what else. I think I had asked you Ed last time if you knew how long Rich was in the driveway.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah, we talked about that. I don't want I can't say for sure how long, but it was quite some time because it he was he was there for hours afterwards, because I know it took a while for the coroner to get there. And of course I I was not on scene when when he was the coroner had taken him. I was out doing that to things, but yeah, he was he was in the driveway for for numerous hours. And which which I don't you know as somebody who's investigated numerous homicides, you you you do an investigation and and and you try and preserve all the evidence and and try not to disturb some of the the pertinent evidence to try and get a prosecution at the inn. But uh looking back, I I don't really have an answer of why he was there so long and why he wasn't transported earlier. I just don't have an answer to that.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Edward, you when I was brought up there, you weren't you were you were not in the community room with all the most of the other eight officers from the department.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

No, when like I said, I I don't know when you guys are brought, you're probably brought to the CP, which was on university. I I I only went to the CP when I had dumped him off. But no, I I was out in the city searching for him with my team.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

When he dumped the suspect off.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

And one thing that I I do want to make clear, although I was in shock that my husband had just been murdered, I still had a 17-year-old and a nine-year-old daughter. And I knew I still needed to take care of my kids. And there's been some misinformation put out throughout the years that Rich's sister took care of me and my kids, and that's not the case. I took care of me and my kids. And fast forward to uh well, I had made I made a choice, and it was my choice. I decided the night he was killed, and once, or maybe it was decided the first time I talked to the district attorney, Steve Wagstaff, and he was the assistant DA at the time. But when I talked to him and the head DA about the hearings that were coming and all that stuff, I had made a decision. I would be there at every hearing that Alvarez was in that courtroom. I would be there representing my husband because he couldn't be there. So in order for me to do that, I still had a nine-year-old daughter who was all now 10 that needed to be taken care of. So Brittany, who was in college, had to come home and help take care of her sister. So yeah, I was me and me and Brittany and Lauren took care of each other, nobody else. So I just need that to be clear.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

And you should be commended for that too. That's yeah, it's I know you don't want to hear that, but that's that's you you stepped up and and you know you did what you had to do, and and and I applaud you for that. And as a as a as a parent.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

And you know, unfortunately, you know, this is kind of going off of, you know, I mean, he we didn't go to trial until October of 2009. So now at this point, Lauren's in junior high. Britney's, you know, Brittany's college career got set back a little bit because she was, you know, working part-time and helping take care of Lauren. She was going to the community college here in Santa Maria. So, you know, she's in junior high. I would during for the trial, I would be up at trial. I would leave Sunday night and drive up to I stayed, the victim services had gotten me an apartment in Sunnyvale. So I stayed by myself in this apartment in the city I didn't know. And uh from Sunday night to Thursday night, we had court. We didn't have court on Fridays. Britney's Britney was had moved home to take care of Lauren, who now, again, I think she was probably 12 or 13 at the time. And I did that for two months, I think. We had we went to court, trial started in October of 2009. He was found guilty um just before Christmas. No, just before Thanksgiving. And then uh we had a little about a week or so break before the guilt phase started. And then that's I think he was found guilty, or the penalty phase wrapped up just before Christmas in December.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Were were you able to do speak at at the hearing for sentencing at all?

SPEAKER_04 55:21

Yeah, I'll all day. Yeah. I well, and I used to think, you know, from the the whole time from the time he was killed up until trial that, you know, Lauren would write her because she was so young, that she would write her impact statement and have you know Brittany read it. Well it Lauren said no, I'm reading it. So I know that, yeah. So I spoke, Deanna spoke, Deanna was a senior, Lauren. Again, I think Lauren was probably 13, and Britney was she 22, I think, something like that. Yeah, 21 or 22. So yeah, we all did give our victim impact statements. Yeah. That was it was such a weird time. And again, my story's a little bit different. I my bio mom and I don't have a relationship. I've been no contact with her about five years now. She's on I call her by her first name. It's I mean, for all purposes, like Diana is my mom. She really fought hard for me and to really try and advocate for me and take care of me. And my birth mom just made it extremely difficult um for me to have access to Diana and my sisters after my dad died. And so, you know, I went from being with them every other weekend all through the summertime, holidays since I was like three, two, yeah, 10 plus years of my life to nothing. And then seeing them at the trial, there was some difficulty around, you know, I wasn't allowed to sit with them because that was rude and disrespectful to my birth mom. And that's really all I wanted to do was to be with them because when I was with my dad, I was with them, and that was my family. So the trial was so difficult because of it being what it was, but then to also have this like very difficult family dynamic. And for me, I guess that's looking back and then also looking forward. I just think it's it's important for whoever works with families to really understand. And I know we're not the only ones like this, but there are complex family systems and ex-spouses and stepchildren and and whatever it is. And unfortunately, I kind of got taken out of the equation for a lot of things that involved my dad because of how my other parent at the time was. And I wish that I had someone to advocate for me. I know legally it's it's hard because she is my actual birth parent. Um, and I I don't know that Diana had a lot of like authority over me, but I wish that she did. I mean, that was post-trial, there was another probably like I guess in total 10 plus years that I didn't get to be with Diana and my sisters. Yeah. So, and on top of, you know, the trauma of losing Rich the way we lost him, we went from a family of five and had Deanna was here every other weekend. We had her, you know, every holiday for weeks at a time. We had a lot of visitation of Deanna. So we went from, you know, so not only did I lose Rich, I lost Deanna also. Lauren, not only did Lauren lose her dad, she lost Deanna also. Britney, not only did she lose Rich, she lost so, you know, it was a lot of loss at a lot, you know, and Deanna was kept from us for 10 years. We didn't Deanna didn't really come back into our lives until about 2016, 15, 16, maybe. Yeah. Until I mean it was like I was out of college, I think, at that point. I mean, and my sisters and I, and I'm getting a little emotional because my sisters and I were tight. We did when I was here, we did everything together. So then to exactly like Diana said, to have the loss of your parent and then the loss of like your siblings as well. It's just I want people to understand, like I said, there are complex family systems and everybody needs to be looked out for and taken care of and not, you know, lost in the sauce or swept away or taken from their family. I just I I want all kids to be advocated for and family systems to be advocated for so that no one has to experience extra losses the way that we had to.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

So would you suggest having a special or a separate victim advocate for you, for each, maybe for each each family member, each section of the family?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

I would. And and I legally I don't know what's allowed or what that looks like, but I looking back, I would have loved to have someone advocate for me because unfortunately, my my birth mom is not mentally well and I don't think made the best decisions for me at all. Um I was 13, 14, I didn't know how to make it what decision to make for myself either. So I would have loved to have someone advocate for me, or even on my sister's end as well. I know my little sister really fought to see me and to not be able to was extremely hurtful to her and really damaged our relationship. And we had to work hard to to fix that and repair that. And so for her, even to have someone to help her and advocate for her. I mean, she's nine, 10 years old at the time. So I do think that's important.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

So, what would both of you want to improve and put in the process for your recovery? Speaking of after the trial and after the events of that night, what can we do as a law enforcement community to improve the process?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:17

You know, I think, you know, if if I were to talk to somebody that's in law enforcement, I would tell them, you know, first of all, you need to have life insurance. Don't don't count on whatever your agency or department provides, because it won't be enough. Rich and I did, you know, we were stupid. We didn't get life insurance until he was shot at three months before he was killed. Secondly, you know, if you're in law enforcement, tell your spouse have it in right, have something in writing. Don't just tell them, have something in writing. Do you want to be buried? Do you want to be cremated? Uh tell your family, tell your parents, tell your siblings, you know, what your wishes are if something happens to you. Because we don't have a relationship with Rich's family at all. And he had a lot of family to choose from, you know, and we don't have a relationship with any of them. And it, you know, that's and that's where I recently at the county memorial in May, I sat with um Steve Wagstaff and he had asked me a question about Rich's family. And I I told he had asked me if they were coming. I said I didn't know. And I I told him, I said, that bullet that killed him, it shattered our whole family. And, you know, if anybody that's a law enforcement, if you think, you know, oh, your family wouldn't do that, things change. People change when there's a death. I it just, you know, another thing too is, you know, the night he was killed, the department had no way of getting a hold of me. So, you know, granted now, I'm I'm assuming, you know, if if the officer has a cell phone, they could get into their cell phone maybe and and try and find out how to contact their spouse. Uh their, you know, maybe their personal information, their contact information needs to be a little bit easier accessible.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

Well, I I know now I left as a supervisor. All cops are mandated to give cell phone for their wives, their names, place of business for their spouse, their home address. So, you know, everything is, you know, it's all computerized now. It was the RIM the RIM system. Every cop has a has a profile within our RIM system. So let's say if you were to pull me up, it would have Jocelyn's name, her phone number, where she worked, my son's name, everything pertinent to that apartment that they needed, if God forbid something happened, that they could get in touch with the the proper people. So that that's definitely an effect now.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:48

Something we talked about, Diane and I prior to this, as we're talking about, you know, what happened that night and leading up to it, we're kind of recounting it. Um I had wanted to see my dad kind of one last time, and I didn't know specifically what happened to him. I didn't know where his injuries were. And, you know, at the time I I was frustrated by it because I was a kid. Diana knew more than I did, and and she decided that it wasn't in our best interest for any of us to see our dad like that. And at the time, you know, I was frustrated, but now looking back on it, I'm so thankful for that because that just my dad would not have wanted that. Um, and now knowing what happened to him, that would have just been a whole other trauma on top of it. But I mean, even something as simple as that, you know, do you want to be seen? It goes with like, what are your wishes for yourself? What are your plans, being cremated, buried, whatever? Do you want a viewing? Do you want people to see you? Do you want your kids to see you in that way or not? I think is important because it's it obviously was it was incredibly awful what happened to him. But as a kid, you don't know that. You just think, I just want to go see my dad. I just want to go see my parent. And if their wishes are written down and there's there's good reason for it, then we want to trust other adults. Like Diana did what she did to take care of us. And and I, you know, at the time, I had been told that Deanna wanted to see him, but I I Lauren, neither Lauren nor Britney had asked to see him. But I had to do what I felt that Rich would have wanted. And I felt that Rich would not want his girls to see him like that. And I felt that I knew my husband good enough to know what that he wouldn't have wanted them to see her, see him that way. But it would be, you know, like Deanna said, it would be better if, you know, if you're in law enforcement, make that known, put it in writing, have it notarized. Another thing I wanted to say about, you know, if you're in law enforcement, I've learned over the 20 years that, you know, a lot of times when people say, they'll they're they'll never forget they're gonna be there, they're not. And the agency. Or the city or the county or the whoever you work for, once you're gone, they're not going to be there for your family. They're going to do what's required by law and nothing more. Time moves on, people move on. And so, you know, make sure that you do as much as you can to prepare if you're if you're in law enforcement. And I and I know a lot of officers don't think they they think, especially if they're young, they think that nothing can happen to them. And that's just unfortunately, it's not always the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

And you hit the nail right on the head, most officers, and not just the young officers, even veteran officers. It it's almost I can equate it to just like an ostrich putting their head in the sand. If you don't think about it, if you don't see it, it doesn't one bother you and it doesn't pertain to you. Many officers have that concept of it can never happen to me. And it's also and I can't speak for everybody, but when officer when officers are killed in the line of duty, some officers will bury that deep inside of them because they know that's that could happen to them. And if they don't think about it, it it won't affect them. It's it's not that they don't care about that person, but sometimes it's that ego-driven bravado that, you know, I just put it aside and and I don't if I don't have to think about it, it's not gonna bother me. Which which is, you know, partly the problem with law enforcement now, the the mental health portion is that most officers do that. They don't deal with the issues and the problems or or face the fact that you know something can happen or you know, and the reason why they don't write down what they their wishes are is because then that kind of makes it a little bit of a reality that yeah, I I I could have that bad day, that something could happen. But uh if I don't think about it, if I don't write it down, it it's it's not gonna bother me.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

So I just want to say, you know, and I know, you know, looking back, you know, when I was when we were Rich and I were both 38, I thought, you know, he started with his long his law enforcement career in 1989. He was 21, you know, and he had been an officer before he went to law or to East Palo Alto for probably 13, 14 years. And is that a long time really? Had he you know lived and retired? Maybe not, but he wasn't a newbie by any means, you know. But I I never I don't remember thinking, be safe tonight or I hope you come home tonight. I don't ever remember feeling like that. And yes, I do think it is a coping mechanism. Um when he was shot at, he as soon as he got home, we made sure we got life insurance. So he, you know, it it's if an officer doesn't do the things to help their family, you know, that's the thing, is that they're gone, you know. I was here left to pick up the pieces, whether it's you know, financially, emotionally, everything. And it's there's so much there's so many layers of what we've gone through and continue to go through. It it doesn't go away 20 years later. We're always dealing with thing things that come up, you know, and you know, it tell your family, tell your parents, tell your siblings, hey, if something happens to me, you know, do this, don't do that, write it down, you know, because there were there has been a lot of things that have been done and said after Rich was killed. And it ultimately might I all the girls and I always go back to if any if if people would have just done what Rich would have really wanted, and what was most important to Rich was his kids. He, you know, all he wanted to do was spend time with his kids and be a dad and be a good dad, and he was a good dad. So instead of everybody doing everything that they did and putting all their energy into the Rich May Foundation, the Rich May field, all these other things that everybody else did and had continue to do, if they would have put time and energy into knowing their nieces, that was what rich would have wanted. His kids are his legacy, not the field in East Palo Alto. And if anybody really knew Rich, they would know that. Do you agree with that? Yeah, yeah. And I think it jumps back a little bit, and but it's yes, it's uncomfortable to sit down and have that conversation with your family or spouse or whoever of these are my wishes, if something happens to me. I know that's difficult, but it's so much harder for the family on the other side of that to then sit in that discomfort forever, essentially, after that. So to me it's like I don't know, I hope that doesn't sound harsh. It's like have you know 20 minutes of discomfort with your people to go over the things that you want to save, potentially save your family years of discomfort and pain and whatever else comes after that. I just I think it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

And then having gone through it, because you touched on it legally, like what the family members, the support they get after um a death, can you go through the laws and that what you've learned of the support that you are legally supposed to have after an incident like that happens?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

There's only one law. The only thing is in the state of California, back in I think in the 90s, mid-90s, there was a law passed that the surviving spouse and children up through, you know, are supposed to be covered by the officer's agency by their health insurance. It's supposed to be the same coverage or comparable coverage of health insurance from when the officer was alive. So until, you know, and it would be typical for the kids until they aged out, and now it's 26. So that's something that for the city of East Palo Alto, it's been a battle for me. Even 20 years later, I still have to call and ask them to keep me covered for my health insurance. There, I mean, there are other, you know, like laws like, you know, the officer's family gets workmen's comp, but that's not that's like a certain only a certain amount of money. That doesn't last forever. There's a public safety officer benefit that the officer famil officer's wife and children or spouse and children get.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

I know recently we we talked a couple weeks ago that you're still having issues with that problem, and I got you in contact with some of the the POA from EPA. Have they rectified that so far or are they still working on it?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:03

Well, the POA president did contact me. I was very grateful for that. In the past, I have had after Rich was killed, I had some battles with the POA. So, you know, I know I had some feelings about that for good reason. For good reason. And and that's another thing, you know, uh if if you're in law enforcement, if you're anybody listening to this, if you're in law enforcement, if you're on your POA board, be prepared in case something happens. You know, don't tell the family you're going to do something if you can't do it. Don't tell the family you're going to pay for something if your POA can't pay for it. Don't raise money for the family and then pay the bills that you promised you were going to pay from the funeral out of that money, which that happened to us. So the city of East Palo Alto, they're still trying to figure out how they can get me my check on a timely manner. And when I say my check, the city recently, the city about eight years ago, they changed their health coverage to insurance plans that are not available to me where I live. So I was forced to buy private health insurance. So the city has to send me a check every month to pay a portion of my premium. I'm I still have to pay a portion of it and then they they pay a portion. But it seemed, you know, quite often I have to call them and remind them that they need to send me a check to pay for that. And I think sometimes, although it's been 20 years, I still, every time I have to call them and remind them, it's kind of like a punch in the gut every single time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

Almost like opening up the wound a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:42

Yes. I mean, I'll I it's I never forget that he's not here, but I I don't have to be reminded, and it shouldn't have to be this difficult to do this.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

And I and when I spoke to EPA on your behalf the other day, that one of my questions was, it's 2026. How are we not using direct deposit for this? I mean, uh it's I didn't get an answer, but it was like yeah, you know, it seems like an easy fix to me, but we are talking about the city beastball although.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:09

Right. I've been asking that question for eight years, and nobody can give me it, nobody can give me an answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

And then you touched on fundraising a little bit. Can you tell us a little about the fundraising and how the fundraising for the families can go wrong?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:25

Well, you know, back when Rich was killed, GoFundMe wasn't around. That wasn't a thing. So I think a lot of agencies, they, you know, I I'm not honestly, I don't know how some agencies do it now, but for us, they the POA had opened up an account and community members donated. They would they sent checks either to the to the financial institution where the account was open or to the department, and that money was deposited into an account under the POA's name. So the way that that went wrong was because the POA told people that came up for the funeral, family members, they didn't have to pay for their hotel rooms that it would be taken care of. Well, then after the funeral, bills came in and they could the POA couldn't pay for it, so they took it out of that account, that quote unquote trust fund that was open for me and my girls. They didn't talk to me about it. I kind of happened to, I by mistake, came across that there was withdrawals coming out of that account. So they they did things for the funeral, and then the bills came in and they couldn't pay for it. And so without discussing it with me first, they took the money and that out of it and then and then they never reimbursed. I called them out on it. I honestly, I I kind of turned into a person that I didn't that I wasn't before Rich was killed. I sometimes didn't recognize the person I had turned into because I was in survival mode and I was in, you know, I just was I just wasn't shocked at some of the things that had happened. So, you know, it's possible I probably wasn't nice to a lot of people when I found out that money had been taken without discussing it with me first. So, you know, there's got to be better ways and easier ways to where agencies can raise funds for the families that is more, I don't want to say legitimate. I don't know if that's the correct word. Better communication. Better communication. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

And and I I think we touched on it last time just a little bit. You had you had said about the misappropriation of funds from the POA, and that was news to me. I had never heard that before. So you were probably a lot nicer than I would have been if I would have known about it at the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:44

But on behalf of yeah, it's just it it's and I remember, Ed, I remember I was I was very naive back then. I was very naive. And I remember when I found out about it, I only found out about it, well, I won't go into that, but when I found out that money had been withdrawn from that account, I called the chief and I asked him, why are there withdrawals from this account? And he pretty much told me that he wasn't part of the POA, there was nothing he could do about it. I didn't understand that. I said, But these officers, you're their boss. Why can't you do something?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:16

Yeah, it's it's so you know, from what you've told and what they did, they're they're damn lucky that the the statute limitation is up because that's you know, embezzlement to me for what uh you know, I wasn't a a a fraud cop, but that to me is misappropriation of funds that should have gone to you and didn't. And I I do know recall the two people that were in charge of the POA at the time and and it's well and on on that note, talking about that, and so regarding say Deanna, you know, a a lot of officers are married more than once.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:54

A lot of officers, you know, have ex-wives with and children with the with their first spouse. So now Deanna, she's a surviving child of rich, and she's entitled to the money. But what I don't think a lot of people may understand any of the any benefits, any financial benefits that a spouse, or I'm sorry, a surviving child of a fallen officer gets goes to, if the child's a minor, goes to the surviving parent. So Deanna's all the money that Deanna got went to her biological mother.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

Did that any of that money get funneled back to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:33

It wasn't clearly explained to me. There were things that she and I would do, you know, trips that we would take or events or things. And it was always said, you know, this is coming out of your dad's money. You know, and I'm I'm in high school at this point. I don't know what that means. So I'm thinking, okay, sure, fine, that's great. I don't really know what that means. You know, now years later, I have none of that. That's all gone. It wasn't well monitored or saved for me for future, you know, my wedding, or my husband and I are looking to buy a house. And that would be really helpful, but it's it's completely gone. There was, I believe it was the workman's comp that was coming in monthly for some time. And I remember those checks coming in and sort of, I mean, I'll say sort of being forced to sign over a good chunk of those checks to my biological mom so that she could continue to take care of me, sort of as like her child support, because my dad was no longer there. And so the little bit that was left was kind of what I saw at the time was like my fun money. I just didn't really have an understanding of what that money was, how important it was, how much of it there was, and and what it meant to save that for the future. I mean, my college, my undergrad was completely paid for. Well, and uh on that note, so in the state of California, yeah, if you're a surviving child or spouse of law enforcement or firefighter, uh, if you go to well, it used to be a state school, the tuition's paid for. So the girls had their their college tuition was paid for. And then also the public safety officer benefit. If an office, if the surviving family qualifies for that, it has to be it has to be determined line of duty death, then they can also apply for educational benefits for that. So I know uh I applied for the educational benefits from the PSOB public safety officer benefit for Lauren and Britney. So that helped pay for um you know rent or food or whatever when they were going to college. I don't know that I think I helped Deanna do that for you. We did that when I was going through grad school. Right. So that it could help me um through grad school. But uh yeah, so I it it was like I said, it wasn't very clearly explained to me and I didn't know any better. I didn't know to ask or look into that. I wasn't that was the time when I wasn't around Diana who worked in a bank for years who would know these things. Um and I just kind of rolled with it. And now unfortunately, there's nothing is there for me, and it kind of just is what it is at this point. But um, it it goes back to making sure that everybody sort of has an advocate, has someone looking out for them and in their court to make sure that what's being provided to them is in good hands and well looked over.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

And so can you talk about now how you are remembering Rich and the things you guys do throughout the year? Are you involved with the the Police Wives Association or the Police Week? I know you guys went last you came up for the police week in May here and you traveled to Washington, DC. Can you talk a little bit about that, how you guys are still involved with that community?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:56

Right. Uh so we in the beginning we went to Police Week in Washington, DC. Probably we went for the first five years, I think, after he was killed. We went the year he was honored in 2007, and then we went a handful of years after that. Lauren and I probably went more. Brittany was in college, so she wasn't available to go. Deanna, again, we didn't see Deanna for 10 years after he was killed. We did go. I went, Lauren and I did the road in the police unity tour in 2016 for his 10-year end-of-watch. And then Brittany wanted to go and take her my grandkids, Brittany's kids, and for the 20-year end-of-watch. So we went this past May and did that. And we do go, we go to the County Memorial in San Mateo every year. You guys did the camp. That's right. Lauren, um, concerns with police survivors, they have different things for surviving that they have it for surviving family members and for surviving co-workers. And the Lauren and I went to, they have a it's called a kids' camp in it used to be in Wisconsin. I'm not sure where it's at now, but we would we went from the time she was, we went six months after he was killed for the first time. So we went in 2007 up and in, I think it's up in we can go from six years old to uh 14. So Lauren and I went from the time she probably went for five years, I believe. And we went to Lauren and I went probably in 2018. We went to their adult children's camp, which I think is like 21 and up, surviving children. And Lauren and I did that. I think that was in like Minnesota somewhere. Or Missouri, yeah. Um that was my first time going, and it was I thought it was great. I think it's a really great resource to bring people together who can really relate to you and really understand what you're going through and where you're coming from. And we went uh we usually try because he was killed in January. We all try and spend the day together on his birthday and then the day he the day he was killed. This last January, because it was a 20-year anniversary, we all went to Disneyland for that. We love Disney, so we've done some Disney trips. Um our typical go-to is in and out. Yeah. Uh birthday and anniversary. That's what he loves. So we'll we'll typically go there and do that, which is fun. I like doing that. And if anybody, I mean Rich was when he was killed, he was tall and skinny. And so when he was killed, I think he was 6'2, and I think he maxed out like 175. And he could he could eat anything he wanted and never need a pound. And so he loved in and out. I mean, he probably would eat two double doubles. I don't know. I mean, so yeah, he I think the most he weighed was living up, was working up there because he was he would I think he just ate out a lot when he was working. But he did like he did like his in and out, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:53

So does he still send you signs that he's around?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, anytime, I mean, there's been times we've gone to In N Out, and one of us, our number will be 33. A lot of times. A lot of times it has come up. Anytime we see a 33 anywhere, um, I really think, you know, like hummingbirds, birds or butterflies. Anytime there's like some interaction, if I'm thinking about my dad, and then there's like an animal appears or something, I think like, oh, that was probably my dad coming to see me. There was a couple times when we went because we we we used to go to Disneyland on his end of watch in the beginning, and we probably went for two or three years in a row, and it seemed like every trip there was we would see a a cast member, an employee that worked for Disney, and their name was Rich or Richie or Richard or Ricky on on January 7th.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:49

So he he he does find ways of it's funny you say the not funny, the the the hummingbird. When I got asked to do a TV show with with Duke, the American uh greatest canine show, they interviewed me during a portion of it, and I I I had Rich's one of the photos with me where he's standing in front of the EPA car and I'm telling kind of his story a little bit for the TV crew, and a hummingbird did fly by.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:17

We we do believe he he still finds ways to let us know he's here. It's it's really cool to me to get to talk to you guys, especially Ed, because you knew my dad. And so I'm I'm just curious if you have any like fun memories or stories or things to share, but I also don't want to like make you emotional.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

Yeah, no, it's okay. You can ask you can ask me anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

I just I it's you know, like I I was 13, so I have some memories. My sisters and I all remember sometimes the same thing, sometimes different things. Um, but we were kids, you know, and this is what we were kind of talking about, Diane and I before is like you were like a full adult getting to interact with my dad, and so. So it's for me it's special to talk to someone who knew him and has memories of him that maybe we don't have. And so I just wanted to ask if there's anything fun that comes to mind or something that reminds you of him.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

There's plenty, but I can tell you a few. Rich w Rich Kigbrund. There was a few times the foot pursuits that uh I was amazed by his his speed. Of course, we worked on the opposite side of the weeks. We would work together when there was mandatory overtime, which there was a lot. Case in point, we were want to say dead in a week somewhere, towing a car, and always an EPA, you call for a tow, and it's been be at least an hour until you get a tow truck. So there was a lot of times where Rich and I would talk and we were working overtime, and a lot of the conversations turned to you girls, uh his time in the rain corps, and just you know, ask him about because he had more time time on than I did at the time, so I would ask him different things what he did in in you know in his previous department. But I can tell you that the community, I was always I don't want to say envious, but the community did love him because he he was fair. He was he was stern, but he was fair, and he took care of a lot of the the kids in the community and helped a lot of people that uh we didn't hear until after he passed because he didn't make it known. And you know, there wasn't you know a newspaper article of what Rich was doing, but he was doing a lot of good in the that community, and he put some good bad people away too. And that shown through. Um, I don't know how you guys got to the funeral, but we left from the department down university to 101. And I wish you guys could have seen it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:41

We did, we did, yeah. We left from well, we left the mortuary. The mortuary was in Middle Park. Yeah, and we drove, so I went to Menlatherton High School, and I remember going by the high school, and the kids were outside the classrooms, at least on the street side that we can see. But they took us through East Palo Alto, right? Yeah, and there were people everywhere in the streets.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

And it I can tell you they wouldn't have done that for me. So that's that shows a lot about your pops of the the type of character that he had. That uh he never did it for the fan fair, he didn't do it for the accolades, but he did small little miracles every day when he worked very proud to have worked with him.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:25

Thank you for for sharing that. I think I think because we don't not only we don't have any communication with anybody, not I shouldn't say any, we I think there's one officer probably from Lawnpoke that I could call if I needed something. That's it. We don't have a relationship with anybody that he worked in the lawnpoke with for all those years either. So we don't, you know, the girls can't, you know, don't have anybody to talk to and have them tell stories, you know, about him when he was, you know, how he was at work or different things. I mean, they have my stories and that's you know, I think one of the hardest things it it was really, you know, not one of the hard it was just another difficult thing to deal with after he was killed was when Lauren got to the age where she was starting to forget him. That was hard. 'Cause, you know, being not even ten years old, you know, and now when I ask her, she's 30 now, and I ask her, you know, about her memories and she's not sure if they're, you know, from pictures or from memories or just from things that you know she's heard us say. So it's kind of mixed. But it's nice to talk to somebody that, you know, you didn't know you knew him for a short time, but when you're at work like that, you know, I'm sure we get to know somebody in a different way that we can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:43

Yeah. Yeah. He he was he he was funny too.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:47

Yes, he does. He had a dry sense of humor.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

And and it's funny, and I won't go into details, but he at least to me, he never uh held back with who he did not like within an apartment, and I'll just leave it to that. And we had quite a few laughs and shared some stories about common people that we had disdain for, and mostly it was just waiting for tow trucks. That's not all, you know, we did more than just wait for tow trucks, but yeah, and you know, just seeing the things that Rich had done and and hearing, like I said, we worked on opposite side of the week. You know, when when I was off, he was on, and vice versa. But I did hear stories um from other officers that Rich had bought some food for some people that couldn't afford it. Not many cops do that. He had a good heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:30

Yes, he did. And that's why it it's I appreciate you guys for talking to us. It's so important to talk about our story and all the things we experienced because I think there's there is so much politics and visuals and people making sure that they look good and the city looks good and uh, you know, whatever else. But he was a real person who had a job, he had a family. I mean, we have stories of him, you have stories of him, and years go by and the department forgets about us and does things without us, and we're still kind of holding on to that the person that he was, and other families go through the same thing. It's to them it's a person, it's not just somebody expendable in a uniform. It's it's much more serious and impactful than that. So it's important to talk about these things and what we've gone through and and where we've gotten left out of the equation.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:36

And and I'm always of the mindset if you always speak that person's name, they'll never be forgotten. And I don't know if your your mom has told you Joss and I usually, no matter if it's you know, we when she was with East Palo Alto, she did the the run and all that stuff, but we always do something on that day to remember your dad. And uh and lately the last couple four or five years, it's it's since we own the academy here, is it's we do a 33-minute uh nonstop roll. And then this last year we did I did uh 33 minutes plus 20 minute roll after that to honor your dad just through through uh some physical activity. So we're we're always remembering him. You can uh take that to the bank with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:25

That's why we wanted you guys on the podcast and have as much of his family as we can, is because we want to hear the stories from his family. We've always heard the stories of, you know, what kind of a copy was, but it you know, we wanted to know what kind of family man he was and the people that mattered most in his life, and it was clear that his family is what mattered most.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:45

Yeah, he and I, you know, I Rich was a you know, and if I had to describe one one of his best qualities, it was he was a really good dad. He was very patient. Rich never I don't think he ever raised his voice at our kids ever. I mean, I probably did more than I should have. But Rich never and if he did raise his voice voice, they were in trouble. But he just was a really good dad, you know. And you know, I think, you know, I had Brittany young, he had Deanna young when we met, Deanna was not quite two, Brittany was I think she just turned five, maybe. So, you know, we had that in common, and he just was a great dad, you know, and that his kids were his kids were very important to him. And I just I you know it's not that I want everybody to know that. I mean I want do want people to know that, but that to me, you know, his children are his legacy. And if you you know if if you if anybody spends any time with his kids, they'll see that they're you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:03

And we gotta get some of his grandkids on the mat here.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:06

We're going to. They're I think we're planning on coming up. We're gonna come up, we're holding you guys to that. Brittany wants to come up in January, so Tanner, I mean that kid, who would love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:16

I'll buy the in and out.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:18

I mean, he's just Tanner he would have a field day up there on that mat. If and Brittany even says if if you guys had your suit, your jujitsu here, she would he would be signed up. Tanner does he did enjoy wrestling, so I'm sure he would love to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:36

Yeah. He's welcome anytime. Yep. We got a gig for him waiting.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:40

Okay. Well, we have enjoyed having you on the podcast and the 148 project, and we will hopefully see you guys soon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:49

See you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:50

Thanks for having us. Bye.