Episode 229 - Know. Like. Trust.

Credibility is the name of the game and for this episode we sat down with a Global Credibility Expert.

What does your vetting process look like? Does it vary depending on what you are deciding partake in?

In your opinion, do trust and credibility go hand in hand?

Mitchell recalls his Napoleon Hill journey from 2019-2020 in which he interviewed 500 thoughts leaders and his findings were astounding.

Tune in to episode 229 as Mitchell explains the relationship between being coachable and credible, breaks down the 3 pillars and 10 values of his framework and much more!

For more information:

Website: mitchelllevy.com ; aha.pub/superhero
YouTube: ‪@CredibilityNation‬

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What is credibility? How is it measured? Today we sat down with Mitchell Levy, a global credibility expert. When you're doing your research, when you're going through the betting process, when you're trying to find maybe a new business owner, a new company, a new entrepreneur to support, how do you find out just how credible they are? With Mitch, he's interviewed over 500 thought leaders. And amongst those interviews, there was one common denominator. Of course, I'm not gonna share it with you, but I will tell you, the blueprint that he's been able to come up with, there are three pillars. Ten values under those pillars. One value that appears actually twice, internal versus external. And when he explains it, I think you'll be just as mind-blown as I was. But on top of that, he really goes to show what all goes into an interview. What is a CPOP? An acronym that I did not know prior to the interview, but now I'm using it day in and day out to even define what we're doing here with Down to Business. So without further ado, enjoy episode 229. Know, like, trust. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Down to Business Podcast here with Tamar Turner. Look, I almost did not click record on this interview. Me and Mitchell were having just such a great rapport. We even resonated on a few things. And so we were really about to just chop it up. I wasn't really going to give you guys any content, but we decided why don't we, you know, bless the people? Why don't we give them some gems or just give them some insight um and just share the wealth a little bit? So very excited, man, very enthusiastic because you know, I something I've spoken with y'all about in previous episodes is energy. You know, I get off work, record a lot of these episodes, so that's a nine to five day, you know. But whenever I have somebody who can match or oh, I guess overdo, but not overdo in a bad way, but I guess just kind of call me out in a sense like meet me there, but then kind of get it up there. Oh, I'm here, I'm happy. So, Mitchell, man, he his energy was amazing. The team they reached out, they did the necessary due diligence and follow-ups, and they bear with me through everything that's been going on, craziness in Tampa. So very excited to be sitting down today. But before we get into everything, before we get into why he's here, Mitchell, how you doing today? How's everything on your end? Doing great. Nice opening. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Nah, thanks for coming on the show and wanting to be a part. So, look, to bring everybody up to speed, I know we're gonna have three sets of people more than likely. We're gonna have some people tapping in from my side, very familiar with down the business, have probably heard some episodes, everything of the sort. But I also know we're gonna have some people tapping in from your side. Just love to show love. You know, your infectious energy and personality has strung them along in some capacity. But arguably my favorite, we're gonna have people who probably know nothing about either one of us, came across this episode in some capacity, maybe through marketing, promotion, word of mouth, whatever have you. But to bring everybody up to speed, put everybody on an even playing field, the same page, just do two things for me. Can you, one, just tell me a little bit about yourself, and then can you two just tell us what brings you on the Down the Business Podcast today?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Absolutely. Uh so let's see, Mitchell Levy, global credibility expert. I've been in Silicon Valley for 37 years, uh, happily married for 35, have a son who's 26. Um, I've created 20-ish companies. I've sat on the board of a Nasdaq firm. I've I've created uh four different executive business programs at Silicon Valley Universities. I have the book publishing companies we have, we've published over 750 books. I've written 65 myself. Um, and I think the thing that really has made me and where I am now and and what what I want to share is between 2019 and 2020, I was trying to figure out what do I do next after the book publishing thing. And and so I went on a Napoleon Hill journey. Now, if you're an entrepreneur and you um have heard of Napoleon Hill, great. If you haven't, he is that guy who was asked and commissioned to interview 500 millionaires and wrote the book Think and Grow Rich. So I decided to go on a Napoleon Hill journey. I interviewed 500 thought leaders on credibility. And I have learned so much since then. And specifically, one of the lessons that I didn't ignore, but I took a backseat for the first three and a half years after I was done was the focus on clarity. And so I'll leave this as with something to think about. I can sit with any company or any human and help them articulate where they're executing on their purpose in less than 10 words. And that level of clarity provides both a compass for the person who gets it or the company who gets it. It also provides a magnet, if done right, so that people get attracted to who you are.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

I've heard at this point probably 200 plus intros. Um wow, that was uh it it that's a lot to digest, a lot to tackle from Oh, there's a lot of talking points, right? But I would say something the the word that stood out the most to me, the word even as I was going through your bio and just your profiles and everything out there that I can find on Mitchell, um credibility. Because, you know, even a word that I would say I knew the definition of, I understood the importance of it before I even stepped into the business world and the world of entrepreneurship. But I will say that a word that has has probably been amplified 10 to 100 times more now that I'm a business owner, a CEO, an entrepreneur, and I've talked to so many, as you said, thought leaders, experts in their field, because that is important. Without credibility, without that, you're it's it's almost next to none. It's it's literally like you say, all you all we have is our name. Sometimes all we have is that credibility and lack thereof. And the minute you lose said credibility, some it's it's almost like trust. In some cases, you can't really regain it, or you can't, and for some people, you know that that that's it, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. So 37 years, Silicon Valley. I want to go back 37 years ago, I was not even born yet.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

So by the way, not to say there will be a point in time where you'll be that person and you'll say to yourself, How did I get here?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So 37 years ago, would you say that was the true breaking point for you? Was that the start of the entrepreneurial journey? Were you just getting your foot in the door at that point? Was it curiosity? 37 years ago, what was Mitchell doing? What was he thinking? What was he wanted to do that he stumbled across Silicon Valley?

SPEAKER_01 6:58

You know, I uh I was in Boston, and I had been working for three years. Prior to that, I got an MBA at the College of Warrior and Mary, and before that, I got an undergraduate degree in at the University of Miami. By the way, I have to say the undergraduate degree because as long as I could still say it, I'm doing okay. It was a Bachelor of Science in Stochastic and Deterministic Models of Operational Research. I know that's what I said too when I asked my guidance counselor what program I should take. And and I've actually been using what I learned in my undergraduate degree my entire career, which is kind of weird. I mean, anyhow, I when I noticed that, I found that very fascinating. So I'd been in Boston for three years, and uh I met a girl on a bus stop. Two months later, she moved to Silicon Valley, and six months after that I followed her. And now, 38 years later, uh, we've still been married.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

That'll do it. That that all it sometimes all it takes is is a woman at a bus stop, you know, into but okay, 38 years later, wow, that's a that's a very okay. So you took that move. Were you at that time, at that point in time, were you, did you have any familiarity with California? Was this just the the West Coast leap for you? Was this just you know, because to go from Midwest to Cali, that's a jump. That's not just you know, you didn't go northeast to Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Oh, yeah, no, we were actually I was on the other side. I was in Boston, so I was on the other coast.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Oh no, you were exactly my all the way over. So what was I understand the purpose of the move, but what was going through was there apprehension? Were you, you know, did you have to leave a lot behind in Boston? Were there what did that journey consist of after she left and you just kind of wanted to, you know, follow those tracks?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

You know, I think I think in life we we we we definitely have a a work life, we definitely have a play life, and we have a family life. Right. And so when you meet that person who is that person you want to live with the rest of your life, they basically become the family life and the the playslash home life, right? So there was no doubt I needed to go. What was fascinating is that my parents, while I was in Boston, had moved to California, to Silicon Valley, they wanted me to join them, but you know, I was happy. I had a job in Boston. Um, and and once the person I met, now when when if you talk to her, there's no way she would say when she met me that I was the one. Um it took me huh took me 18 months before I proposed, uh, because she wasn't ready. But I knew almost immediately.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Whew, that's okay. So family there, it almost kind of made I guess it made things even uh a bit more bittersweet for you. We were just like, okay, well, this is you know, to to still have bitter, obviously being for what you said you the foundation and everything that you built in Boston. The sweet parts, you know, not only are not only were you mesmerized, not only did you know from the beginning fatal attraction almost, but family. So even if let's just say not fatal attraction, just happy attraction. Happy attraction 38 years later. Even if it, you know, because of what I'm even hearing too is that even if let's just say things didn't work out the way that they have now, you still had kind of a fallback with family being there. Was that kind of your thinking?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Was that kind of like yeah, still still had no no, I I knew I was gonna be with her forever. So the she didn't. I did. The uh what was interesting is when I was looking for a role and what to do in in uh Silicon Valley, I actually found a startup company. And if you're if you're in tech in any way, shape, or form, actually, if you're in business anywhere around the world, you know what Silicon Valley is. Now, what you think it is is not exactly what it is. And what you what you think, and what I thought at the time, was the streets were paved with gold. And that if I got a job at a startup company, I would be set for life. Right? Because, hey, that's Silicon Valley. That's what I expected. And so I ended up getting my first job. It was at a startup company. My commute was about an hour a day, which wasn't un in today's world, that's crazy. But in in uh East Coast world, that uh New Yorkers typically had a two-hour each-way commute. And it took about a year before the company ran out of money and I lost my role. And what was interesting, I was kind of shocked. I'm like, wait, this is not the way it's supposed to work. I got stock options. They should be worth a ton of money. Um, and so that was in terms of uh expectations that weren't delivered, that was probably the the biggest one is the the job I came out here for wasn't what I what I it didn't turn out to be what I thought it should be.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Understood. Understood. I could, as someone who has never been to California, um, but have family, friends over there and have just heard, you know, the plethora of stories good, bad, ugly, indifferent, everything of the sort. You know, it definitely does beg the question of a lifestyle, you know, especially being from East Coast, you know, because they always just say that the contrast from the east to the west is just is is is is very telling and is very different. And um, but as you as someone who has also watched the the spin-off series Silicon Valley, it does kind of give me sort of a uh an inclination as to kind of what goes on there. But the startup world, you know, as someone who was recently employed by a startup, I understand the ins and outs of everything that goes into it. I I had never worked for a private company previously, but to watch a company go from private to public, it has its own realm and ramifications and everything that come with it for sure. So a very interesting path to step into, but uh it definitely can be a rewarding one for sure. Now, with uh credibility, where how did that word make its way not only into your vocabulary, but so much so that you almost branded yourself around it? To talk to 500 people is not, you know, that that's no small feat, that's no small task. That takes timing, diligence, planning, scheduling, rescheduling in some cases, everything of the sort like that. So, how did credibility make its way in Mitchell's life?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So what we'll say is if you're in business today, no matter what you're doing, it will go away sometime soon. Whether soon's a couple decades or a couple or a couple weeks or a couple days, right? So I have morphed. So I ended up from the startup world. I went to a company called Sun Microsystems. I was at Sun for nine years. I left running the e-commerce components on supply chain. I left during the dot-com days. And and I became an e-commerce, uh, e-commerce consultant, helping companies deploy the internet inside their businesses. And what was great is that during the dot-com days, all you had to do is spell the word e-commerce, and you'd get a job and you'd make money. Money almost literally fell from trees. What happened is in uh 2001 time frame, there was the dot bomb. Where all of a sudden, everything e-commerce was bad, Amazon was gonna go out of business, my business dropped to almost zero. So I had to morph and do something else. Um, I ended up doing a bunch of different things. In 2005, I started a book publishing company, and we have, I've got four different uh different book publishing brands, and I ended up working with thought leaders and have published over 750 books to date. And what happened is in 2019, I recognized that yet there's another time I need to do something else. Uh, one of the problems with anything in life is when technology gets a hold of what's happening, technology makes it democratized. As a matter of fact, you as a podcaster, you're doing this because technology makes it so amazingly easy, right? So podcasting has been democratized. In 2019, I'm like, yeah, publishing is going to be democratized soon. As a book publisher, I won't be able to charge the fees. And as of today, what I will say is there's this brand new business model in book publishing. Can I tell you what it is? Would you mind? Because you can't compete against this model. Okay, the new model in book publishing is stupid. And there's so many people who just have absolutely stupid business models that as a legitimate book publisher, I can't compete. So in 2019, I'm like, what's next? So I looked at the authors that I had served. I looked at what they wanted from a book. They wanted credibility. I looked at the definition of credibility in the dictionary, and I go, huh. I don't think that's as robust as it needs to be. The next day I woke up and I go, huh. Napoleon Hill, 500 millionaires, think and grow itch, Mitchell Levy, 500 thought leaders. And it ends up the book I wrote was Credibility Nation, and I did a TEDx. Uh, the TEDx is called, for those that are interested, we are losing our humanity, and I'm tired of watching it happen. Um, but that's what that's what came out of it was I looked at the client base I was serving, I looked at what they wanted, and I recognized that what I thought they wanted wasn't defined as well as it should have been, and I thought, huh, something will come out of that that will help me get to where I need to go next.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Time and time again, I have asked that question in some capacity. Obviously, for you it's credibility, but for all of the thought leaders, the experts who I've talked to, I've always in some form or fashion inquired about how they kind of got their start. What how did this develop? Where did the foundation get built? Where was that idea? Was it an aha moment? And the consensus, the the commonality, the the true theme across it all is that they were solving a problem. Either a common problem that other models are out there solving, but there's enough room for everybody, a problem that no model is solving at all. And so that is what makes them unique and niche, or a problem that they may have thought was what it was, but it's totally different once you have that conversation, once you sit down with these people, and once you really kind of take a deeper dive. Because as you even said, it wasn't until you started having these conversations, you started talking to these people that you were like, wow, you know you're right. And if I mix that with how I feel, we can we can really spin and flip this thing upside down. Because something I hear too, and something that my eyes keep raising, I'm smiling about, is that um is is this publishing. You know, I I have spoken about it on previous episodes, and I'm gonna continue to be, you know, to continue to go hard. I want to publish a book one day. I don't know where we're going, what we're doing, what's it gonna be. We'll figure all that out. I'll get to that. But I do know that I want to do that. So the fact that I've been able to talk to authors in different realms, you know, best-selling authors, you know, people who are a multitude of books, children's authors, touring, everything of the sort, it's always so interesting to me just stepping into that realm. But to now hear that, to now hear the pivot, to now hear how things have changed from 2005 to 2019 and now from 2019 to 2024, and you know, even to see what goes on and what goes beyond that. So for you, when it came to publishing, when it came to actually to when you adopted and when you really decided to take charge, adopt your own company and and go from there, did you feel as though you already had the resources behind you? Did you feel as though you already kind of had the the information, the knowledge, the backing? Was it something that because you know part of what I'm hearing is that it was it was something that you kind of came about because you felt like it was something that was needed, especially for all the people that you were talking to and interacting with and going from there. But another thing that I hear too is that you know, this is not the easiest thing. Well, I'll speak for myself because for you it may be a walk in the park. Uh writing a book, publishing, working, all of that, depending on which realm and how you go about it, it does not seem easy. It definitely does seem like there has to be consistency, there has to be a want there, and then there has to be the whole marketing, the actual publishing. You know, writing is one thing, but then getting it out, pushing it out to others, that's the lot. And the fact that you have time and time again just continued to do that is a is amazing to me. You know, so for you, as you stepped into publishing, as you as you began to think about who you were working with and even start to bring in different companies, what was that introduction like? What was it really like getting your foot at the door? Was it something that you were nervous about? Was it something that you kind of just hit the ground running and you found out, hey, it's you know, I do my due diligence, it's really not as hard as it may seem.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

You have about two or three questions in there. So we'll answer it. I'll tell you what the question is, and then I'll answer it appropriately. Um, first question is it easy sort of to write a book? The answer is it is incredibly easy, and that's what I did for all my authors. I mean, just it's we I'll I'll paint a thought and then we'll go back to the second question. So what happens is we we put in our mind that the book we have to write is the great American novel. It's that thing that's gonna be the best, quintessential thing that will sell more copies than the Bible, which, by the way, not possible. And what I'd like to say is if that's in your mind, put a stake in the ground and say, I'm gonna do that someday. By the way, you never will. I'm gonna do that someday, and that's my second book. The first book is essentially the one that you're gonna put out there that will allow those clients you want to attract to know that you're an expert at what you do. That becomes a lot easier. And particularly now with with GPT, it is very easy to format and create and produce produce an asset. So the book thing, if you think about your your the book you want to write is the one that's going to be used to help you establish credibility with the client base that needs to see you, that makes life a lot easier. Okay. Um A different question. We could always come back to the book stuff, but we asked a different question. Is it easy to start a business? Are you afraid? Do you have everything? Do you have everything you need to have? Um, by definition, you know, men don't like to admit they're afraid, but if you're not afraid, it's not good enough, period. Um, I don't think I'm ever afraid or nervous when I speak in front of a group, my but my underarms tell me different. So, you know, because I'm sweating. The uh I'm not gonna lift my arms up, right? So the uh the thing that's interesting, if you think you know enough, once again, you are definitely um you're definitely not credible. Because there are two elements associated with credibility, there are ten values of credibility. Credibility is the quality in which you're trusted, known, and liked. Um, when you get to know somebody, there's something I was I was thinking about as you were speaking. When you're talking about people who are creating, you said I I met a bunch of people and there's a common denominator, they were solving a problem. Let me add to that, and hopefully this will change your thinking process. They were solving a problem as a servant leader. They were solving a problem that was of service to a one or more people or a group of people who had that problem who would pay to get those problems solved. That's really one of the key elements of credibility is being a servant leader. Another aspect of being credible is being coachable. So if you think you go into a situation and you know it all, and you're not gonna listen to your customers, your partners, you know, those around you, you're probably gonna fail. Right? Because, you know, whatever it is that you think you're gonna do, it will change when you get your first customer. It'll change as you see your customers and you try to figure out what is the right, what is the right optimization between how much I charge and what my expenses are. And that changes all the time. And, you know, the it it depending on who you are and what you're doing and where you want to play, may decide whether or not you stay with the business you have or you build it to a certain level, you sell and you go to the next one. And you know, as humans, we have different things that drive us. So, first, I'm gonna say for anyone, what is the what is the problem of the who is it that you want to serve? A, who's your audience? What is the problem that they have that you think you could solve? And can you solve it in such a way that they'll pay you for it? Uh-huh. That's a business. Now, is it a business that's big enough to support everything you want to do? Here's the cool part for you personally. You're podcasting. So there are different business models in podcasting, right? One business model is that gets big enough and there's enough coming in, and there happens to be sponsors that come in the door and traffic that you you make based on number of downloads. That's a great model. There's a problem with that model once once uh podcasting has been democratized, is that you now have more and more competition. So, what you could also be thinking about is who else are you serving? Right? Are you serving an amorphous audience that's listening to you because they like you? And by the way, you're like absolutely likable guy. Um, you've you've come across with all the right characteristics of someone who's credible, right? So, so you're welcome. And the thing that becomes interesting is who else do you want to serve and how best can you serve them? And if you have a little bit of extra time after the full-time job and after the podcasting job, what can that be? Because if you have, here's the cool part: if you have a full-time job, that job becomes your finance sponsor. They're paying you money to pay the bills. If you have time afterwards, what do you do with that time? Podcasting and something else. So you can make the bet that you're going to be the podcaster that has a big enough brand, a big enough influence that you get sponsors and you get traffic. And if you want to hedge your bench a little bit, this is what all entrepreneurs do, and I'll I'll tell you a story about that afterwards if you want. If you want to hedge your bench a little bit, you start another business that brings in revenue.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

I'm definitely always trying to, you know, exhaust all my resources and keep things open. So, no, I I think that one, as someone who has grown to appreciate perspective, but also open my own, you know, because I can't be, it's not always my way or the highway. It's not, I'm not the end-all be-all with everything. And, you know, culturable, that's such a big thing for me, you know, which is why I love feedback so much. I always ask my audience for feedback. And a lot of times, and sometimes I tell them, hey, like, can it be like negative a little bit? Like, not necessarily like, hey, find something bad, but I don't always want to hear, like, hey, I really love it. I don't want to hear the tomorrow uh relationship that we have. I want you to really listen to it sometimes as a bias or not a bit, which is why I love getting it from my outside audience or people who don't necessarily know me as a person, because that's really that feedback that you're gonna get. You know, I everybody doesn't really like to have those tough conversations with that person because it's your baby, or because you know, you may get mad at me, or you may take, you know, for me, I always tell people I can't take this for me to take what you're trying to do to help me personal is selfish, you know, and it really just means that I'm not really in this for the reasons that I say I'm in this. Because if I, as you said, truly want to be a servant leader, truly want to establish my credibility and be credible to others, I have to hear what y'all are saying too. I have to figure out, you know, I if I would have stayed the same from 2019 until now, oh, this would be a pretty dull podcast. I might not even be here anymore, you know. So I get that. And so I I love that point that you touched on because I the intention behind why you do what you do is so important. And it it will it will literally make or break your business in some cases. I tell people all the time, you know, I'm I came across this post that was basically saying that you're considered the top 2.5% of podcasters if you make it to 20 episodes. I was at 20 episodes in 2019, you know. But to me, it's just like, you know, I knocked off 20 episodes. That was just like, all right, what's next? You know, for for me now, obviously people listening to this are gonna hear this after 200, but the day that I'm actually recording this episode right now, we dropped 198 today. So for me, that's a milestone. 100 was a milestone, 300 was a milestone. So to hear that, you know, it this is what it takes to be in certain places in certain spaces, I'm all for it, you know. Because if it was just money, money, money, oh well, this hasn't nearly yielded what I needed to give. It hasn't paid a single bill for me to really be. I just paid some subscriptions and some things like that, but nothing too crazy. So I love that aspect of credibility because why are you doing what you do? What is your why? But then who are you also impacting and affecting? And as you said, once certain things become because I hate when people kind of use the word saturated because it brings about a negative connotation to me. And for me, like, I don't necessarily feel like the podcast market is saturated. I feel like, you know, there are a lot of podcasters out there, but are they top 2.5%ers? Are they in the business industry? Are they recording weekly? Are they live? Are they doing other different things, you know? Because while Down the Business is a podcast, it's also encompassed under a realm of different things from live events to pop-up shops to giveaways to a grant. So every, you know, I want to, and as you said, I want to eventually bring in a different entity that'll also make me money, but I want it all to be under this big umbrella. So I I love that. Now you you meant you you kind of touched on something a little bit. I want to take a deeper dive into it. You said that there were apologies if I miss if I miss um pronounce it or miss kind of characterize what you said. You said that there are 10 points, or there are 10 like the blueprints of credibility has 10 different things. Can we I want to take it I want to take a deeper dive into that? Or are how did you well know? What are the 10 different? Why don't we let's just we can get into all 10 if we have that type of time and you know, and however you want to put it, but I'm I'm very curious to know what are those, like when when when thinking of credibility, when as you said, when you first came across that and you felt like it wasn't as robust as possible, what have you now found to bring it to that robust definition for everybody to understand?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I'll I'll definitely go through the 10, then we could we can we can talk about it. The way to we know the phrase because we've been taught this phrase, no like and trust. It turns out that when I first did the research, uh, I used that phrase as well. And I said, hey, listen, there are 10, there are three pillars of credibility and the 10 values come underneath those three pillars. When I started practicing, it was somewhere between four to six months that I realized that I got the pillars. The no like and trust is no longer. No like and trust made sense before the internet. You know, you you go into a town, you don't know anything, and you say, hey, my my horse lost, you know, lost a hoof. How do I how do I how do I fix that? Well, there are two blacksmiths in town, but this one's better. That made sense. First, you have to know that there are two blacksmiths, second, you have to actually trust that this person does a good job, right? So, no like trust. The what's interesting though in today's world with the internet and our and with particularly with Chat GPT, um, with AI, what comes first is trust. When you, when my team made a suggestion that you that I joined the podcast, you gave me five seconds. Right? Five seconds to say, oh, do I trust this guy will be interesting? Right? Then what comes next is you get to know me a little bit better. Now, if you look at, let's say you look at anyone's LinkedIn profile, you look at anyone's website, the first thing you do is trust, or I trust this person can do what they say they're gonna do, then you spend another maybe 30 to 50 seconds to get to know them a little bit better. As you get to know them, you're gonna unravel elements of trust. And you also, if it's done right, you're gonna decide if you like them or not. Because that likability thing, so so they're really the trust, no like is what happens. And under trust, there are four there are four values vulnerability, integrity, authenticity, and coachability. Now, when I say integrity, I'm gonna say that is your external integrity. So as you try as you get to see if you trust somebody, it's kind of what they're saying on their website, what they say in person, that's their external integrity. Now, under being known, I don't mean that I get to know of you. What I mean is I get to know you. And as you get to know somebody, it's different. And so to get to know somebody, you get to know if they are truly a servant leader. So one of the values is servant leadership. Another value is do they have the intent to do the right thing? And do they have the commitment to do the right thing? And the other thing that's interesting of the 10 values, there was only one that appeared twice. Integrity appeared twice. So, under being trusted, it's your external integrity, which is what you share with the world. The fourth value associated with the pillar of being known is your internal integrity. So, who you are as a human. And what's really interesting tomorrow is people who are intuitive, people who read energy, sometimes you bump into somebody go, and you that they look really snazzy, they do all the right things, but something feels funny. That's because there's a mismatch between their external and internal integrity, and you're picking that up. That's something I can pick up. Okay, so those are eight. Let me give you under being likable. Now, this is the cool part. It is really easy to be likable. Okay, I'm gonna give you two values associated with being likable. First is showing respect. Now, respect is simple for me on a business sense, coming early, coming prepared, coming with your heart. All right, it's like, oh, okay, let me just be me. I mean, what does that mean? Be you. Don't pretend to be somebody else. Be yourself. Make sure if you have a meeting, come early. Even if it's a minute too early. If you're in a podcast, come 10 minutes early, right? Just you come early, you come prepared, right? You listen to our podcast episode, you you're you're set up ready to go. We we had a green room conversation. Was the sound right? Did things feel comfortable, right? That sort of thing. And coming with your heart is just being you. Now, there's another aspect, there's another value. Now, I call this value spreading cred dust. And what I mean by that is sharing the ideas, thoughts, and actions of others. We've been taught that we need, if we're an expert, we need to be the expert, and we're the only ones who have the answer. That's absolutely so untrue. And particularly in today's world, the best thing you could do is share other people's ideas, thoughts, and actions and say how you're deploying them, how you're implementing them, how things are working for you in this scenario. Right? And so those are the 10 values of uh associated with credibility.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Whoo! I like those. All words as you were, man, those are all words that I've probably said through this whole podcast, through this whole, through this whole journey, you know, because authenticity, that's that's really big for me. It's really just who you who you are when it's all said and done. You know, when all that, when the we work comes off, when the down the business comes off, when the chief marketing officer comes off, who is tomorrow? Who is Mitchell? You know, who who are these people outside of those roles and responsibilities that they enact on a day-to-day basis? But a term that I had never really heard of or even thought about was the external versus the internal integrity. And man, if you didn't paint it spot on when you said, like, somebody can just have the look. Even the aura in some cases, you know, when they walk in a room, they just kind of have you like, wow, like what's what's going on? But it's just always that, it's almost like that gut feeling, like, and it's so why I'm so big now, on just like, you know, that that first feeling that you get, or that initial just like inkling, don't ignore that, or don't just push it to the side, or don't like, you know, you got that for a reason, or you did, you know, because you you didn't have it prior to that. You're gonna have it again at some point, but not necessarily directly after. You got that at that moment from that interaction or lack thereof for some specific reason.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

And so I had a trusted gut. Oh, do you mind if I share? I'm gonna share something on that. So what happens for people who have done the same thing for a long time, they sometimes start losing their internal fire. So, an example was I I went to um in Silicon Valley, we had something called the Celebrity, the Celebrity Forum. And it was a series where the speakers would get paid between 40 and 100,000 speakers like Bill, you know, former presidents and other came in. And and there was a speaker that came in who had some amazing past and some crazy upbringing. And here's the problem: they probably were given that same speech 2,000 times. Now, he was amazing and eloquent at sharing that speech. And there were 2,000 people in the audience, and my parents were there, and the person I brought. And most people, at least 99% of the people, really loved it. I was like, he doesn't feel the words anymore. He was saying the words. I mean, all the words came and the right delivery was there, but he wasn't feeling like he had done it enough times that at some point in time he lost the ability to truly encompass that, right? So that's a that's an issue. And I think I think when something like that happens, it's time to do something else.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

I definitely agree. When that Pat when you wake up and it starts to feel like a drag or like a chore, like it's just as you said, it's not that fire. You know, I I I told people, I told myself that the day that I stay after work for an interview and I'm and I'm just dragging or I'm just faking. Because I'm I if you know me, it's to know that I cannot fake the funk. Like you will, you're gonna see it on my face, you're gonna just know, you're gonna get the if you know Aura, you're probably even gonna get it from my aura, just in that general. So I told myself the minute that I cannot enjoy this, it's it's done for me. You know, the fact that I enjoy editing, uh, uh painful task at times, but I I I just enjoy it because it allows me to watch things back, it allows me to even recollect certain conversations, certain things that we sometimes I forget. I said certain things. I definitely forget what my interviewee said, especially during four to five a week. So the I I definitely do agree with that. And you can definitely tell when a spark has been lost. And sometimes, you know, to to know that a spark has been lost but continue to push through it is only just add an insult to injury. Sometimes you really have to take that that reflection, that that moment to take a step back, that realization, that come to Jesus moment in a sense and and and really just get things to where they are. You know, if you need to maybe pivot, if you maybe need some creative redirection, if you just maybe even need a sometimes we need a break, sometimes we just need a a little bit of a high end. You know, so I tell people sometimes that I never feel bad for canceling and or having to reschedule an interview with if anything, you you gave me maybe some time to sleep or to edit or just to get my mind right, or maybe just to listen to some music or anything like that. You know, as much as I love what I do and I want to get on here and talk to everybody, I I recognize that life happens for us all. That sometimes that was God's way of saying, hey, tomorrow you just needed to pivot a little bit today. You just needed to take a break today. When I stopped doing multiple interviews in a day, I I just started to feel better. You know, I felt like I was just, I was at some points, I was doing interviews at 5.15, 6.15, 7.30, like and after working. And you know, and I told myself in the moment, you know, I just was so just I'm on it, I'm grinding, I'm busy, I'm I'm making it happen. But my my weekends got here and I was just like, wow, I don't want to do anything. You know, I don't want to have nine episodes to edit. After I do that, between football, between the couch, I'm not even trying to leave anymore. But once I was doing that one a day and kind of just set some boundaries, don't record on Fridays and different things like that, it really allowed me to just, okay, this is I'm loving this, this is cool, this is everything. I don't want it to get to that point where I'm dragging along and I think about five years of just everything experiences, memories, conversations, gems that I'm just, you know, in a sense, just leave and be where it's at. In in talking to a lot of these thought leaders and talking to a lot of these experts, what was the uh was the nature of the conversation credibility? Was it more so trying to figure out what they do and where they fall within this and how it relates to their business? A lot of these conversations you had, what was really the basis? What was really the foundation of it all?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

So I I was inspired. I got a download, right? Once I knew I was gonna do the interviews, the the goal on every interview was to ask five questions and get five answers and to do it in five minutes. Now, during the interviews, it was, you know, what would happen is people were scheduled for for a half hour. In many cases, I would, if it was questionable, um, I would do a pre-interview ahead of time just to see if they, you know, if it felt like a good fit. But what would happen when when somebody came on to do the interview is they were sent a 16-minute video ahead of time saying, hey, here's what I learned, here's what's going on, and and here's what the interview is going to be. I'm gonna ask you five questions. Here are the five questions, here's how to answer them. Now, what was interesting is when I first started, this is when I remember I said I was using my undergraduate degree, I actually, when I did my first 10 interviews, I didn't really know what my KPIs were. I didn't know what I was gonna measure. And I had the blessing of the first 10 people being very consistent that everyone else was. I think there's one person who didn't show up, uh, two or three people came late, three or four people weren't prepared, right? They just couldn't answer the questions. And I'm like, oh. And by the way, I was offended, right? If somebody didn't didn't show up or they came late or they couldn't have, I was offended. And then after that first 10 interviews, I go, wait a second. If I'm trying to study what credibility is and how people show up for something that they want to do that they think are important, I just need to be someone who receives. And so I started keeping track of. Did they come early? Um, did they come really early? Um, were they prepared? Were they ready to go? Were they coachable? Right. And and so what was oh, and by the way, I didn't know I needed to ask about coachability. So I will tell you how coachability got in there. But what to answer your question directly, it was simply the conversation. I would people would come into the green room and I'd have about 15 minutes to have them run through the answers to their questions. And and what, by the way, one of the things I found is that 98% of all thought leaders do not have clarity. When I say clarity, it's it's the it's do they know who they serve? Right? So, what is the audience they serve, one, two, or three words, and either what is the pain point or pleasure point of the audience they serve? There's a word I use or an acronym called CPOP, their customer point of possibilities. So, in less than 10 words, who do you serve and what is their pain point or pleasure point? And so I would, that would be the first question I'd ask. And so when we'd go into the green room, so what's your CPOP? And what I said to people on the 60-minute video, I said, listen, 2% of the audience has has clarity. So 98% don't. Can you add yourself to the 2%? And so people would come in, go, Mitchell, I'm part of the 2%. Let me tell you. One of the biggest problems tomorrow is that we are so full of marketing cookie cutter bullshit that that many people couldn't get away from the marketing stuff. They just, right? So they would say something that sounded like a great tagline, but not a CPOP. Right. And so that was really the way the episodes would go. And I basically interviewed between 10 and 14 people every Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday afternoon. Right. And it was it was like clockwork. My I set up processes so my team can do their thing. It was great. I absolutely loved it. I was happy when I was done too, because a year is a long time. Right. And but I learned so much along the way. And one of the things I promise I'd tell you this story, I learned something really interesting. So I had unraveled nine values of credibility. And I ended up getting some speaker who why do I always have speaker stories? That's interesting. I had a speaker who was, you know, this $35,000 a day or a keynote speaker. So I kind of predicted up front that he would have watched my 16-minute video, and that was true. And and I said, So what's your CPOP? Now he gives me so elegantly his 30-second elevator pitch.

unknown 46:59

Right?

SPEAKER_01 47:00

He had to memorize. He was kind of like, well, you know, CPOPs are typically less than 10 words. It's who do you serve? And what is the pain point or pleasure point? Um, and then he goes, okay, and he gives me a 15-second, you know, word. And I'm like, then I decided to ask something that that you really have to do before you actually do this. And I said, Do you mind if I do a little bit of coaching? Now he said something I did not expect. His response brought fire to me. You know, I wanted to use that four-letter F-word that we always use. And his response is, and when I said, Do you mind if I do a little bit of coaching? He said, Yes, I do. I have my way of doing things, and you have yours. And I don't want to learn yours. And so what was really interesting is I had at least the gumption, because mom said, Hey, listen, if you're not going to say something good, don't say anything at all. So I had the gumption just to have an extra couple seconds of silence so that he could respond first. And he said, I don't think this is going to work between us, is it? And my response was, yeah, I don't think so either. Best of luck with everything you're going to do. Now, I did mention before I was I sat on the board of a public firm. And the CEO, when he had to hire somebody on the staff, always had a board member do an interview, at least one board member. So can you imagine you're sitting on a board of a public company, you're interviewing the chief marketing officer or or the or the CFO and uh for the CEO, and you're talking to somebody, you get this feeling that they're not going to listen to the CEO, or they're not going to respect their staff, or they're not going to listen to their customers. Would you say yes? Of course not. Right? So that's when I woke up that next morning for some odd reason I let things process. I wake next morning, I go, huh, there's a tenth value of credibility. And it's coachability. Because if you're not coachable, you are definitely not credible.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

And I don't know if if there would have been another scenario that would have allowed you to insert coachability in there, but I'm so glad that you dealt with that. Not necessarily had to deal with that in real time, but you needed that experience in order to get you where it got you to. Because you know, preparation is everything for me. And that's a big thing. I'm I'm I'm so big on that. I love when people reach out to me about the podcast, want to be as prepared as possible. And then I kind of ease their mind a bit when I tell them this will be as free-flowing as possible. But if you do want to prepare, feel free to listen to any of the previous episodes. They'll all kind of follow, in some regard, a same format, just different subject matter. But I love when people, I love guesting on other podcasts now because one, it's giving me some ideas that I've copied and makeshifted for down the business for sure. But it's ideas that had I probably not appeared on this podcast or didn't, you know, some people email market certain things. Some people have type forms that I have to fill out, some people have Google Docs and Google Sheets that they need me to fill out. Some people want talking points in bio ahead of time. Some one lady had a whole intro curated for me, and it was just really cool. You know, so I love people who do the due diligence of preparation, who, in some form or fashion, you know, you're gonna remember, hey, I was on tomorrow's podcast. Hey, I sat down and I spoke with Mitchell. And granted, that conversation was only five minutes, but that was the best five minutes that I needed of my life because of how succinct and and how well organized everything was. And I think that that can make or break sometimes those interactions, you know, of one side of because I've had interviews where, you know, I've sent over things beforehand or I've told you to do maybe one or two action items in order to get as prepared as possible. And we get on this interview and we're kind of just staring at each other. You know, I'm gonna show up and do what I have to do, but I'm also an energy person. And I'm not about to just keep dragging somebody along and drink, because you know, pouring from my cup now is one thing, but having to fill yours and mine at this, I can't, you know, I can only do with so much. So to hear that, you know, originally there was nine, but that that tenth had to come in and it definitely needed, but I I think it speaks volumes because I think that this is something that I don't want people listening to this and only think that you can apply this as a business owner, as an entrepreneur. This is about life as a human being. You know, you just always have to recognize that there is gonna be something that you don't know, there's gonna be something that somebody knows more than you about. Do we do we allow that pride? You know, the inner as you spoke to the internet, I think has just has flipped-turned, twisted, make-shifted a lot of different things into maybe what they haven't been or and I think it's really complicated things. What seemed so simplistic, minimalist back then is just so it's such a long, drawn-out thing now. But I love how you were able to get to that through what you had to go through. Again, you know, we don't like those awkward moments and just people that they don't prepare, but again, it allowed you to add to what you were doing and in a sense, even solve another problem and in a sense not waste any more of your time. Because I'm pretty sure that there were some people even who may have read your intro, may have gone through the 16 minutes or lack thereof in some capacity, and been like, you know, maybe this is just not my opportunity, and this is just not it for me.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Tomorrow, it was it was really interesting. I I sorry for for butting in, and we got to sort of ask the last question so we could wrap up, but but I want to add here one of the tricks that I did at the end of 15 minutes, so we had a half hour totally that the the total the total time. We were as much as I like to do this in five minutes, and I do it in five minutes now, we were probably more like 10 minutes. So at the 15-minute mark, I would say the following. You know, I really want to feature you, and I think you're amazing, and you don't have your CPOP and the following questions as well as you could be. Now, depending on where they were, we could record now because it's good enough. Or sometimes I'd say, Yeah, we we'll need to update that. Here's what I'd love to be able to do. I want to spend the rest of the time talking about you. Do you mind if we reschedule the podcast at another time? We'll spend the rest of time talking about you, whatever you want to cut cover. Nobody said, nobody said no to that. Right? And and what was interesting is not everyone rescheduled, right? Which was part of keeping track of credibility, right? So so it was just it was interesting to think through. I I I'll give you one last tip that this is a very interesting tip. Um, so what often happens when we're online is we somehow treat online different than being in person. So imagine you're at your your rework facility, you got a conference room, and somebody comes a half hour early. Do you let them in? Well, you don't let them in because it the room's already taken, but you're gonna go meet them and tell them, hey, by the way, you know what? Guess what? You're a half hour early. So when you're online, one of the things that happen is is if I'm interviewing uh 10 to 10 to 14 people, I'm I'm four to six hours straight unless I have the platter from you know where I'm gonna have to go to the bathroom. Right? So what would happen after I finished the doing an interview with somebody, I would let the next person was in the green room, I'd let them in, I'd introduce them to each other, and I go, you know what? There's a reason why you're talking. Do you guys mind talking for a couple minutes while I run to the bathroom? And then when I came back, if the conversation was animated enough, I go, okay, listen, I got I gotta kick you out because I have the next person to do, but let me introduce the two of you over email because I really think you guys can continue the conversation. That's exactly what you do in person, and I'm gonna say the same thing. Anytime online etiquette is in essence how you would treat somebody with respect with you when you're in person, you do the same thing online and you'll know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Mitchell, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you've been around the block a couple of times. It's definitely not your first rodeo of things like this. But no, I, you know, as I it's always very interesting just going through bios and and talking points and media kits and websites and everything, and then seeing the sometimes contrast or none at all between who I'm sitting down with and who I actually read about, you know. But to it's always a pleasure just to put faces to names and personalities to names and and and past and history and everything like that. So I say all of that to say that what was sent over to me, what I went through, what I read, it did not disappoint. It did not sell you short. As I spoke about in the beginning, there were definitely a lot more than what met the eye, you know. But I was already expecting a big great thing. The the bar was set pretty high coming into this one. But no, I really just have to one just thank you. One just thank you for the for the mindset that you have, you know, for the perspective that you have. Because I I I get on these podcasts and really to date, I don't think I've really had anybody just come on here and hard sell. And I love that, you know, because essentially what I want to do is really just have these conversations. I want you to realize that, you know, these CEOs, CMOs, CROs, whatever other acronym we want to come up with, these are real people. These are real people with real experiences, with real lives that were not always where you see them. They weren't always on the LinkedIn with the millions and billions of followers and different things like that. They had to start somewhere too. They built the foundation just the same. But it's not to say that even through all that, they're still not that their authentic self. That intent that internal integrity is not still there, as the external is just the same. So, for me to you, to the rest of the team as well, I thank you all for the time and just for wanting to be on here. And I'm very excited, one that we met at this point in our journeys, and I'm excited to really see what's left of this. I'm I've already learned a lot, and I know when I replay this, there's even more to come. But even from going through everything, I know that I still have a lot more to learn. But I always do this just to close, and um, this is kind of like my call to action for my audience or whoever's coming across this episode. So before we officially wrap up, can you just tell people who may be curious about credibility, who may be curious about the book publishing, who may be curious about your plethora of entrepreneurial ventures and just following along the journey in some capacity? Can you just let us know all the best places to reach you, connect with you, websites, social media, give us everything you got?

SPEAKER_01 57:33

So if you don't mind, one of the tricks I learned is to give one. So I'm gonna give you one location. And after I do that, I'm gonna give one gift that's not at that location that I that I decided uh probably in the first couple minutes that I was gonna make sure your audience uh got. So the best way to reach out to me is my website. It's Mitchell Levy, M-I-T-C-H-E-L-L-L-E-V-Y.com. You'll learn what I'm doing, what I'm focused on, where I'm going. If you, if you're if you say, man, I need to talk to you, Mitchell, you could book time directly on the calendar. But you could see the programs. One of the things I do is is once a month we do a clarity session. It's 90 minutes long, and I guarantee everyone gets a C Pop who comes to that event, or you'll get your money back. Right. So, so the the interesting part is Mitchelevy.com and you know you connect to me on LinkedIn and wherever else makes sense. Let me share a gift. As I learn, as I grow, I'm trying my best to do things where I can create courses which are five minutes, 30 minutes, and so on. I have a 17-minute course, which is something I learned in my undergrad that I've used my entire life to help me with clarity. And so what I'll be doing is continually adding some paid for and some some complementary, but I have a complementary location with that course, it's the input-output course, that's complementary. And so I'll share this URL with you, and you can ask me or the team afterwards. The URL is aha a-ha-a, because we all have aha moments, aha.pub, aha a-ha-a.p-u-b slash, and then it's superheroes. Because it's a clarity superhero community. And so, you know, there's a couple of things which are free. I'm continually adding more. My team's not keeping up with the courses that I want to create, but you know, we that'll happen. So by the time you you hear this, there'll be more than there are today. Um, and it's the goal is as I learned a new trick, a new technique, a new approach that seems very obvious once I learn it. I want to make sure I could share it so it's very obvious for those who are who are who are going there and want to learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

We are not in the gate, we are not in the business of gatekeeping here over at Down the Business. So I I appreciate that. Aha.pub slash superheroes. Look, y'all, y'all know I'm big on the call to actions. I'm big on that. If these people are making themselves available to you, if they are willing to sit down with you, if they are opening up their calendar for you, if they are the most expensive thing that we have is time. And I don't take time lightly at all, you know. So as I but like I said, it's nothing wrong with a reschedule. I'm okay, I'm a human being. But um, I encourage everybody in some capacity. I know some of y'all like to, you know, click around in different things with the episode. So I pray that you've made it this far to the episode because this is really where there's value and credibility all throughout. But this is really where you know you you you decide to take that next step. And even if next step is nothing more than following along the journey, there are gems along the journey. And I think that there is always something to learn from Mitchell, from myself, whoever has it, even other people within the community. So again, Mitchell, I thank you so much just for the time. I thank you for everything that you are doing. I'm I'm I'm so excited that we were able to connect now, and I'm excited to see what happens in the future. And obviously, from down the business, we are here to support in full capacity. Whatever we can we can do, just let us know. So, to everybody who reaches out, whether you're, you know, it's happening live, whether you're listening at a later date, you've celebrated with us, been to an event, however, you supported down the business or myself, I thank you. I love y'all. This has been another episode of the Down to Business Podcast. Here we're Tamar Turner.