Episode 231: Happy Client, Happy Business

"I think momentum beats perfection."

Wes and the team at Uplift 360 believe that it isn't just about bringing something to a higher level or acquiring more business, but also being considerate of people throughout the process. If a client is having a bad day, why not do everything in your power to turn it into a good day?

Wes has been running his agency for over 20 years and will be the first to tell you that it has not been an easy, breezy walk in the park. Dating all the way back to his first hire, mistakes have been made along the journey. However, if he can help others avoid obstacles along the way through practicality and simplicity - then that is exactly what he is going to do. 

Tune in to episode 231 as Wes explains the advantages of building a team in different time zones, breaks down the importance of authentic SEO practices and much more!
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For more information about Uplift 360:

Website: uplift360.com.au
Instagram: @uplift_360
LinkedIn: Wes Towers
YouTube: @uplift_360

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The hiatus is over, down to business is back, like we never left. And we kicked off this episode sitting down with Wes Towers today of Uplift 360. A very, very, very important word to myself and Wes as well. And he'll tell you every reason as to why, even as to what prompted the rebrand, because that was not always the name of his business. But running a digital agency for 20 years obviously has come with a lot of evolution, a lot of change, a lot of just moving parts and moving pieces. So Wes will tell you how being faced all the way in Australia, how he's adjusted, how he's adapted, and really how he loves having a built a team in so many different time zones for maximum availability for all the business owners, for all the entrepreneurs, for all the creatives out there running and managing their own businesses, brands, websites, and companies. But don't just let me give it all away for you. Tap into this episode. So without further ado, enjoy episode 231. Happy client, happy business. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Down to Business Podcast here with Tamar Turner. This is special. Some people may not even they they may kind of be checking their microphone, checking their volume on their phone just to make sure this is really tomorrow. This is really, we're in the flesh, we're making it happen. Look, I know it's been a while. I appreciate everybody for sticking with me. We've been repurposing some content, we've relocated, we moved, new job, new atmosphere, new surroundings. But the passion, the excitement, the the nature, it's everything is all still the same. So very excited to be sitting down with Wes today. Very just you know, happy that we were able just to connect the way that we did. Big shout out to Podmatch, everything that Alex and Alicia are doing over there, just building a great community, a great family, and just and just great people. So look, Wes has Wes has a lot of insight for us today, a lot of things that he can speak to, a lot of just you know, just really just being in those trenches, just getting it from the ground. I do want to say he's joining us from Australia. So big kudos to everybody tapping in from his side, from our from their side of the world, just the same. But look, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do too much. I y'all know I love the intros, but I really want Wes to take it over. This is his show. So, Wes, one just um well one, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, really well. Thanks, Tamara. And it's it's good to connect with you at this time of uh your life. And I I believe there's seasons in life, so it sounds as though you're ready to ramp up this next season with the podcast. So great to catch you on this this uh first one back, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

So thanks for the opportunity. We are ready to go. Please believe us or no. Thank you for, you know, thank you for just being so responsive and thank you for really just taking the time to join us today. So look, I know we're gonna have some, we're gonna have a range of people. We're gonna have some people who know about you, we're gonna have some people who know about me, we're gonna have my favorite type of people though, who probably know nothing about neither one of us, but came across this episode in some capacity. So for everybody out there that's tuning in, that's tapping in, can you just do two things for me? Can you one, just tell us a little bit about your well, really, just do one thing. Just tell us a little bit about yourself today, and then just let us know what brought you on the Down the Business Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Sure, sure. Yeah, so where's Towers? Uh as as you as you said, uh, I'm in Australia, in uh a town called Geelong, just outside of Melbourne. So if there's any surfers out there, they'll probably know Bells Beach, uh quite a famous Bells uh beach down in our region. So that's not too far away. So I'm somewhere between Bells Beach and Melbourne City, if you know Australia at all. So um yeah, so we run a digital agency down here. It's been a wild journey. I've been running it for uh over 20 years now. Um, you know, there's been ups and downs and uh exciting times, terrifying times uh with tech and changes. It's always been a a space that's evolved and changed super fast, which is keep keeping us on our toes, obviously, and keeping things life interesting with how you go about marketing yourself. But obviously the last few years been has been dialed up a notch as well with AI and things, tech technology transforming the way in which we do things and and what matters, um some things are becoming more important than ever before. So yeah, loving running the agency outside of that. Um I mean, I'm a dad, I've got three kids. Um the eldest is 20. He's working with me one day a week now, which is awesome because you know, when you when the kids get older and they move out of home and so on, you you feel as though you're not going to see them anymore. But it's it's a massive blessing to be able to see him one day a week. He's working with me one day a week, and so um we get to work together, but also have lunch on that day and so on. So the blessings of life, the seasons of life, as I mentioned before, um, and the other two kids as well. So the um yeah, um yeah, life is life is uh exciting. It's a it's a weird time in the world right now. Um, but there's obviously massive, whenever there's challenges, there's also massive opportunities for those that can position themselves. So that's what we're attempting to help our clients with.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

I love that. As you said, life is life is good, even on the other side of the world. So that's amazing. And to really have your, you know, to keep it in the family. I think that that's amazing. Something that my little brother does not know yet. And if he listens to this episode, he'll soon find out. He's gonna he's gonna work for me one day. We're gonna figure this out, we're gonna make this happen. I feel like I'm very much just that on person on in front of the scene on the camera person. He's that behind the scenes, he can he can put together websites, he loves the coding, he's really good like with his hands and just the technical things. So I feel like you know, if you put those two talents together, we can definitely make something happen and really take the take the world by storm. So, all right, I love that. So, digital agency, AI, just coming into business. Okay, so one, I really want to start with the name. I love I love names, I love origin stories, I love really how that came about. But why this name really sticks out to me in particular is Uplift. So, Uplift is actually one of my fraternity, that's one of our cardinal principles. So I love that. I love that idea, I love that, you know, just helping the next man, each one, teach one, just making sure that somebody may not necessarily have to go through all the struggles that you did. So when coming into business, when building this agency, when really just thinking about the goals, the mantra, the mindset, the foundation that you wanted to build, how did you come up with Uplift 360? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, it wasn't the initial uh brand of the business. Um, it was originally called Omnific design, but I think it was eight, eight or nine years ago now that we rebranded to that because it just fit a whole lot better. Starting in business, I I was really quite naive to a lot of things in business, and I I didn't know precisely what the direction I would take was in the early days when I named the business initially. But when I got to a point where I realized what my true values and convictions were and and just even to hear from other people, I got I got the sense really um clearly that uh having spoken to lots of clients and customers and so on, um, just someone mentioned briefly one day how they felt uplifted having spoken to me. I thought, wow, that's a great, that's a great value. It really, I really appreciated the compliment because it obviously triggered something in me of a core value in which I want to create an uplift in businesses as well, because we're trying to grow their businesses, we're trying to get them more traffic and all that stuff and more visibility and getting more business through the door, through the websites and so on. That's the business side, but more at a deeper level. I want to fear, I want to uplift people. I love people and I want to connect with people. And I thought I thought, well, that's that's probably the compliment that's resonated most with me. And I thought I thought about it more completely and thought, yeah, I I wanted to rebrand because the the previous name wasn't really kind of sitting well with what we were doing. So uplift 360, so that directional piece of bringing something to a higher level, but also considering it from every angle. Um, and that's uh really where where it landed. So yeah, I'm I'm glad it resonates with you too. Uh I I feel as though every every interaction with a client or customer, I want them to feel uplifted in some way, whether that be that we're trying to get them more business or whether they're they're just having a bad day, and I just want them to feel a little bit better. I mean, there's no business objective with that, but that's I feel as though that's part of the mission in in life is to make fit people feel a little bit better, that they can grow a little bit faster, that they can get a little bit more done, um, that they can just feel better about their businesses because I'm dealing with founder-led businesses, and it's it can be scary and overwhelming and challenging, and um it feels as though sometimes you've got no one to listen to you as well. So I I just I just uh really resonate with that word, and uh I'm glad it uh it's something you picked up on as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Most definitely. Yeah, I'm a big for for my for my down-to-business events, they know that I'm a big name person, I'm a big origin story person because I often really feel like that tells the story sometimes of why you may have come into business, whether you were trying to solve a problem, whether it may have just been something that you thought about, because in hearing what you just said, it's not just really about like, yes, you're here to help other businesses, other entrepreneurs, other business owners, other people, no matter where they may be in their journey, but you also just from a people level, you want to just be able to connect in that way. You want to just, as you said, if someone's having a bad day, if someone is just on the other side of where they need to be, you want to let them know that hey, there's light at the end of that tunnel, there's there's a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, and things then things can come to fruition the way that you want them to someday. So, yes, I'm I'm I'm loving every bit of that. Now, I I kind of want to get into the nitty-gritty of your story. As I was kind of, even as you spoke to even earlier in the interview, but even now, you basically said that you you came into this really with no blueprint, no foundation, no like how to manual, no really step-by-step direction. So, did that produce any struggles early on for you? Was it do you feel like there were a lot of trials and tribulations? Do you feel like there was a lot of starting and stopping, a lot of falling and getting back up? Were there a lot of learning lessons early on? Did you really kind of adjust and adapt as you as you learned?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, definitely. There was so much hard uh learning the hard way in the early days. I mean, I'd worked in the industry in marketing for a few years before starting my own business, but realistically, I I didn't learn a whole lot about business in that. I I learned to do the skill in which I bring to the market, but I didn't know how to do a proposal or a client meeting. Uh the first client meeting, first few really, I was just sweating, you know, just so nervous and overwhelmed, and I didn't really know what to do or say. Um, but uh I struggled through and and got some mentors around me and joined some groups so I could learn learn from other people in the way in which they do things and and sort of um apply some of what I saw in them into my own practice as a person, but also as a business, uh operational procedures, all of that stuff. So just so many lessons learned the hard way in the in the in the early days, but because um it wasn't too much of a stretch because I started the business just in the evenings initially. So it was and my my day time my day job boss was actually really uh encouraging encouraging me to start my own business. So as an entrepreneur himself, he could um it was he was quite comfortable for me to build up and and leave at some point. So that was really uh a great blessing as well. So um yeah, just figured it out and you know the stakes just get higher and higher. So initially it was myself and my and I was married at the time, and and so we had two incomes, so and I was starting just dipping my toes in. So the stakes were not too great. But then when I went full-time and then we got a mortgage, and then we end up having kids and so on. And so the stakes just get higher and higher. I mean, the first goal was just to create an income equivalent to what I would be paid in in a in a regular job, an employed job. So that was the first mini goal, and then to get there and then to get to the point where you're hiring team and staff, and that was a that that was a whole world of challenges as well. The first hire I did, I got horribly wrong, and um just poor leadership skills from my part, uh, as well as um there's a concept in the Bible which speaks about being uh wise as serpents as and gentle as doves. And I I I I lack the wisdom. I didn't lack it, uh I think I didn't lack the gentleness of uh gentleness of as doves, but I certainly think in my life in general I I lacked some wisdom um in safeguarding some things and so on and um building some solid foundations. So those things came with maturity and and you know you adapt and grow through through those seasons of life.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

That's beautiful, and I I I love the the transparency, and I really appreciate that because it it really just goes to show that oftentimes, no matter where you may be, no matter what stage you're at, mistakes can happen. Mistakes will be made. As you said, you you didn't have it all figured out, you may not have had the most grace in the beginning, and it it also just speaks to sometimes the passion of a business owner, the passion of an entrepreneur, and especially from that that transition, that that that crazy transition of going from your nine to five and doing this also to just full time, and that's something that I love to hear with people. So when you stepped into this full time, thinking about your current situation, thinking about where you were in life, was there any apprehension? Was there nervousness? Did you kind of feel like you had a good backing and okay, I feel like I'm on solid footing and foundation, I can move forward with this? Did you kind of just go all in and you didn't look back afterwards? What was that transition like going from a nine to five and doing this as well, to saying, hey, this is my full-time gig, this is really what I'm gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, yeah, it was uh it's it was um sort of scary and and challenging at the time to take the plunge. Starting a business was something I always wanted to do. Um I saw I I heard of stories that my grandparents ran bakeries and they would start bakeries and sell them and and move on to the next one, build it up, sell them. I really loved that concept of building something that's sustainable and and and people can take it further. I also noticed, uh, observed my uncle who was running an architecture business, and so I'd spent time in his business, um and I saw the potential opportunities of running business. So it's something always I wanted to do, but I started so much sooner than I than I thought I would, simply because an opportunity presented itself. So I think this is a key aspect of life that sometimes you just don't, you'll never feel ready enough. But when opportunity presents itself that will take you on the path in which you want to get to where you want to go, I think you've just got to take those opportunities and uh mitigate the risk as best you can, but there'll always be some level of risk and there'll always be some level of learning as you go. I think momentum beats perfection. So um what happened was another person that I knew, uh, a friend, um, he had tried to start an agency like I was wanting to do, and he'd he'd given up. He he just wasn't winning enough work. And he said, Right, I'm throwing in the towel, I'm going to go and get a real job. So a nine to five job. And so I said to him, Well, what are you going to do with the clients you have? And he said, There's only a couple left, two or three left. You can have them if you want. Because I I must have mentioned to him I wanted to one day start a business. And so I did. I took those couple of clients, and that was the start of everything. So I, you know, that I'd only really worked for other people for for a few years realistically. So um it was probably a little bit naive to start so so young and and early, but it was an opportunity that presented itself, and whilst it wasn't much, it was a starting point that I can, you know, get get uh get started. I think that's the key in life to to get started and start moving toward your goals and objectives because getting started is the most difficult part.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

That is something that I appreach so much, just almost like just thinking about Nike and their slogan, just do it. You know, there's no such thing as perfect. There's no such and even if you get to perfection, if you if you so if you're so adamant about perfecting your start, then where do you go once you start? Do you give people do you give yourself room to grow? Do you give people more room to wander? To do you give yourself even the opportunity to develop? If you want to come at 100% from the beginning, well, getting to 101 might be kind of difficult. But as I speak to if you start maybe at like your 70, you can get to your 72, your 75s, your 80s, that progress, and you can even motivate yourself that way because it's nothing like just seeing your business grow. It's nothing like achieving goals and reaching those unimaginable heights. And it and once you really start to enjoy it, once you start to really get your footing, and if you're having fun with it, then it's amazing. So the fact that you even kind of came in like that, as you said, like you didn't really know what to expect per se. You had some clients, you were kind of just figuring some things out, you were sweating a little bit in the meetings, but nonetheless, you just kept the wheels turning, you just kept the the bridges rolling. So I I really do love to hear that. Now, something that really stood out to me, and just looking at your website and just looking at what you kind of highlight was the importance of a website, but also just making sure that your website is more than just visually appealing. I feel like that is such a big highlight. I I think that a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs, creators, I think we can spend so much time on a website, just wanting the the colors to be right, the aesthetic to be right, you want your chat bots to work, you want the things to be moving all around, you want your promo codes popping up when you get there. But are you really retaining people or is it just something that looks good when you click it, when you scroll a little bit, when you have the mobile and iOS version kind of compatible, and that's it? So when it comes to building out a website, when it comes to even what you have done with your website, I encourage everybody who's listening to this to definitely check out the Uplift 360 website as a as a model and as just something that you can look forward to as Wes gives his answer to this question. But when it comes to websites, do you feel as though extravagant is more important than practicality? Do you feel like it should be about if you're sales-based, you should be trying to just generate revenue and sales. What should people be really honing in on when building their website, when developing that foundation for people to look at?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah, so there's there's it depends on the attention, intention behind the website. So there's some clients who win all their work from tender. So we work with mainly construction industrial brands, some of them are quite large businesses, who would never win much work from a Google search. It's not as if they're delivering, they're delivering large-scale projects. So they're um it's not about being found, um, but it's about supporting the tenders and so on, the proposals that they have out there, so they realize people are going to check them out online. Every, you know, they're gonna do their due diligence and check out as much um resources and information as they can. So that's that's uh a website for brand purpose only, and to get some of that messaging across and to build trust and authority. But it doesn't need to do that attraction piece and and the conversion optimization because it's not for that. Those cases are rare. Most of us are on the other side of the scenario where we need to build the website so it attracts visitors, gets eyeballs on the site of the highly targeted people, but gets them to take some form of action, so a call to action. So that's the most most of our most businesses are in that camp, or at least to some degree. They might have a combination of both. So they might be doing some large-scale tender processes, so they don't need to attract there. That's to build the brand. But the attraction and the conversion piece is what takes the most effort. And and so just a beautiful design uh doesn't necessarily produce the outcomes that you want to produce. It's the key thing is the message behind the website, and you can design it in a way to guide people through the core messaging because no one, very few people will read word for word every every single page on your website. Even in fact, they probably don't even read one one complete page. They will scan through, their eyes will just quickly glance through to make a rapid um decision whether you're valuable to them or not. So you need to design it in a manner that guides the eye through the most critical information, and then for them to take that next step, the call to action, whether it be to request a quote or to make a phone call or booking or you know, um whatever whatever it is, you want to get them to do something next. What's that next logical step? And so without that, you know, people will jump on your website and they'll they'll check it out, but then they might go to your competitor next because they're probably if it's a if it's a larger investment, they're probably going to do a little bit of research on a number of cus uh uh potential um providers of that service or product. So they'll quickly go to the next side and they might even forget about you. So you've really got to capture them then and there, and that's most of the businesses. So there's ways in which you can design the structure of the page to help guide the eye and um and to get that action to take place. Without that knowledge and understanding of the user experience for a website, all you can do is design it to your own preferences, your personal style, uh, what you like in the terms of the look and feel. And that's not the way in which a customer or a client, a client looks at your website. They're not assessing you on the beauty of your website, they're they're just trying to get the information and what that means to them in their world. So it can be difficult sometimes, and and certainly it's a challenge right now because you know, with AI and uh vibe coding, people can quickly build um a basic website for themselves. But without the substance and understanding behind the scenes of what's really going to work, they might be going down the wrong path. Um, you know, there was a scenario just a couple of weeks ago where the um the client, it was a partnership, so two directors, and I was working with the marketing manager, and the marketing manager expressed to me that the directors were keen to have some pretty sophisticated animation. And that's super fun and cool for us to work on. It's exciting, and we can certainly do it. But oftentimes that that'll create a bad user experience, and therefore there's less conversion, and therefore there's less business and less return on investment. But the the directors weren't aware of that. So we need to explain. That to them, obviously, explain it to the marketing manager that hey, we can do it, but it might be detrimental, and here's why. And here's a here's a healthy balance between what you're wanting to what you had perceived you want uh and what's going to produce the best outcome. So they're the conversations that you need to have with clients to make sure that they're getting what they truly need out of a website.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

That intention is important, as you said, and something that I was really thinking about as you were going through that is Wikipedia. I feel like that, depending on who you ask, obviously, you know, I th I I think about the school, the academic version of that, how a lot of our teachers, it wasn't really a credible source. They didn't want us on there. You better not use it in your bibliographies or citing your sources or whatever. But nine times out of ten, whenever you were searching for something, Wikipedia was in that top three, top five of your results. You click the website, it's not the most visually appealing website at all. Very just black and white, even from the logo. But it gave you the information that you needed nine times out of ten. So, like you said, we're not like we were not, we just being people, students, whoever have you, we weren't assessing Wikipedia for how good it looks, how visual appealing it was, was it colorful? Could I whatever the case may be. We were assessing it that if I typed in, hey, I need to know information about this that took place when, is it going to give me that? And it gave you that from top to bottom. So I think that that's such a great point, too, because as you said, you you have some customers and some clients and some industries where people are out of touch with all the the AIs and the movements and this the colors and the screens and everything kind of just coming at you at one time. Like that may just be too jarring or overwhelming for them. And they and for them, as you said, they may get to the website, read a couple of things, they don't really find what they're looking for. Okay, I'm going somewhere else. And it's not to even say that it's just a bad website, but it just wasn't the message wasn't as clear as outright as they as they may have needed. I think that that's that that is so important. And it's it's important too to just know your industry and know your market. Yes, you may be a very creative person, you may love what you do, you may just be have that very artistic mindset, but is that gonna work for who you're trying to support? Is that gonna work for the industry that you're in, for the niche that you're targeting? Which kind of makes my next question a little bit. And so with your with your agency as you were building this, how did you decide who you wanted to target, what niche, what group, what community that you really wanted to help and assist with uplift 360?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, it's it's sort of found me the niche. I always knew the power of niching working in marketing. It's a it's a concept that a lot of us um understand and and promote. Certainly for smaller businesses, it's a way in which you can be seen to be an expert and and become that expert in a certain field. So I knew the power of niching, but we were generalists initially, so I would just design anything and everything for everybody uh initially, and kind of that was a necessity starting out. But eventually what I realized was the majority of our better clients, not all, but uh a good portion of them were in the similar field, so construction related, industrial brands, those sorts of things, trades. And so I realized, hey, the niche has found me to a large degree. They were the happiest clients, they were getting the best outcomes and a happy client, happy, happy business. Um, and so you know, it just found me and I realized, hey, we we'll just go we're we'll just double down on that without uh repelling our our our client base that had been. We've still got legacy clients and we'll continue to serve them for years to come, hopefully, and and that's fine. But we've grown in our expert knowledge and niche for the construction and industrial brands because once you start to figure out what works for one customer in a in a certain industry, you quickly realize what's likely to work for the next customer. Now, every business and brand will be slightly nuanced and unique and so on, but you kind of you kind of get a sense of what's going to work quicker. So you can get some quick wins on the board, which is really helpful when you get a new client. If you can get some quick wins, um, then that that trust and and so on is is built from there. So, you know, it's it's been powerful. And and sometimes people assume that I had some sort of trade or construction background. I didn't at all. I'm kind of useless at picking up a hammer and I don't know what end of the screwdriver to hold. I'm useless at all that. So uh it's um it's kind of funny. But uh for whatever reason, I resonate really well with those business people, the founder-led businesses. Oftentimes, they're practical, pragmatic, down-to-earth. They want the job done. They're happy to delegate and take uh take advice, and uh that's what where we support them. So that's that's kind of what how it works.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

And sometimes really not having that bias to an industry or to a field, it it helps you succeed even more. You know, I think that oftentimes when you look at those people who they're experts in something, or they this is kind of what they grew up, this was their life's passion, their life's work, they not necessarily say that they won't succeed or they won't be successful in what they do, but it could just it could skew a little bit how you kind of go into business or what you do or what you look at because you have a method, you have kind of a framework, you have a blueprint that you have already established. Whereas if you're somebody who kind of comes in with not the not all that expertise, you learn as you go. You may even just look at things from a different perspective, you may look at it, it may be easier for you to look at it from being a client, being a customer, and then kind of being on the other side of things as well. So I almost feel like that can work to an advantage too of not having that skill because even as you said, some people now think that because of how versed you are, because of all the possibilities and avenues that you've explored. Oh, well, Wes, did you do this before? How do you know so much, or how do you do what you do? But I I I think too, I like to think that the clients lead us and they teach us just the same, like in different frameworks and how you establish. So I'm yeah, it's it's yeah, it's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

I mean, and I know their businesses from a marketing standpoint really well and what they deliver to the end client, what the the clients are looking to buy, customers are wanting to buy as an end result, but I I I just don't know necessarily how their tools operate and so on. So and that and it's kind of to your point, it's it's kind of helpful not to know because you oftentimes a business, particularly when they try to do their own marketing, they'll get bogged down with the technical aspect of how they do the stuff, but no one really cares about how you do it. That's not really important. The customers are buying the outcome, so that's what you need to market to. And so it maybe to your point, it's uh it's helpful not to get too stuck on the how do you operate these tools and uh machinery and so on, and uh just think about the outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Absolutely right. I love that. Now, the the I feel like the topic of conversation these days just in life and business in the world, two letters, AI. So, yeah, when it comes to I guess I'll ask this in two parts when it comes to what you do specifically with Uplift 360, just being a business owner, just helping other people, just continuously building your agency, where does AI play a part in that? And then I guess my second part will be, and this I probably should have asked this first, but my second part will more so be what was your stance on AI? I feel like prior to my year hiatus, I talked to a lot of different business owners and entrepreneurs and even my audience. And some people, there were just so many different, you had those people on one side of the spectrum that were like, okay, I don't know what this is. I feel like it's just right in front of me. I feel like a lot is kind of happening from your chat GPTs to your clouds, your Gemini's, your co-pilots. I feel like it's just a lot of information kind of moving at one time, and I need to really just be able to process before I accept anything, I launch into anything. Then you kind of had those people that are just like, okay, I've been doing my research a little bit, I've been figuring some things out, I'm learning as I go, I'm testing, I'm entering prompts, I'm learning. And then you have those people that they just love it. They're all for it. They know that at the end of the day, AI is not going anywhere. We have to get with it or get lost, they're learning it, they're training the models. So where did that, where did you kind of fall on that spectrum and how does it, how does it I would say resonate or relate to what you do with helping people within your agency?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, I think it's a powerful tool, and we're certainly applying it to a large degree to the way in which we operate our standard operating procedures and the software stack we use to produce the you know websites, for example. Um, so those things have become more and more streamlined. And um the difficult part is, you know, you choose software opportunities that are best, the best options right now, but it feels like tomorrow there might be something even better. So that's the challenge of um just the multitude of choices and how it's growing so fast. So we try and foresee and project what is likely to be the leader in the future as well. So the challenge with choosing any any platform or software stack right now, if um if it's a small player, well, potentially it might not be, it might be wiped out eventually. And where does that leave you in for the long term? So we're trying to future-proof and ready ourselves for where the things might go. That that's that can be a difficult part. But certainly we're using AI to a large degree from the technical side of things to build the websites, to um create content even for clients. But you've got to really be the thought leader with it, particularly, you know, writing content. We don't necessarily trust what we read anymore, or we don't trust what we see, like videos. We see them of um celebrities and so on that are long past. So we know they're not real, but they're so realistic. And so that's exciting, but also terrifying because we know we can't trust what we see anymore. And then we think, well, how long has this stuff stuff been around before we even knew? Um, is uh, you know, over the f over the last few years before AI was uh in existence for the general population, were we being manipulated? So there's a big massive uh uh erosion of trust, and that certainly affects marketing to a large degree. So it's my view that the role of marketing now is it's less about tricks and strategies and um and so on, and it's more about building authority and trust and reputation and leveraging that, uh, which you do for real life customers, making the most of that. So if you're getting great Google reviews, thinking about repurposing those, you can embed them into your website, or you can um you could post repost things on social media. So leveraging the reputation and the things in which you can't artificially create too easily, because you know, Google reviews, it's it's kind of difficult to fake them and and you nor should you try. Some people do. But anything that can't easily be manufactured or faked, I think they're the greatest signals that we can have. And the other point too, you using AI, there's the t there's the potential for it to erode our authenticity and our own voice and our own messages. So I think no matter what tools you use, it's got to be your genuine thoughts, ideas, something of value that you're adding to the conversation. Because if you just lean upon the tool, let's say you want to write a blog post because you realize that helps with your Google rankings and so on, and maybe it surfaces in large language models as well. The you know, you might just jump on and ask for a blog post and then publish it. Well, it's just a collation of other people's thoughts and ideas put into something perceived to be new, but it's not really new, so there's no information gain. You've got to consider what's unique and new that you're adding to the conversation, thinking about the the internet as a big broad thing that's all interconnected. So the ways in which you can do that, you can sort of certainly talk about things that only you can speak about. So real life case studies of projects you've worked on, um, photographs of what you've worked on. This is really incredibly important for the clients we work with because they're they're building tangible things usually. So they're, you know, that you can see them, you can photograph them, you can showcase them. It's obviously awesome if they're beautiful works, if they're building beautiful, you know, dream homes for clients. But even if it's digging trenches, it's still a real substantial thing that they can publish that only they can publish because it was them who worked on a particular site. So, you know, it's it's um scary and uh challenging times right now to try and stand out and build that authority and trust simply because it's being eroded so so fast. But you've got to do everything within your means to leverage AI to get stuff done faster. Yes, use it kind of like a microphone. This microphone here before me um projects my voice through to you and the podcast and then to the audience uh globally. That's what AI can do. It can it can amplify your voice to the world, but it shouldn't be the voice, it should be an amplifier of your voice. So that's where I think people are going wrong uh sometimes. Just relying upon the tool to do all the thinking. When realistic it needs to be is you as the founder of the of a business or someone working within a business.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Most definitely, I will definitely agree to your point that I feel like it's taken the authenticity out of things, it's taking that genuine nature out of things because naturally it can be it can be a very creative tool. I will definitely agree. I've seen some things where it's just like, wow, I didn't really realize that these were this was what you could do with this when you put this tool to use. And I've seen some other things where it's just like it gets a bit more on that terrifying side, or it gets it begs the question of how like how detached are you or how attached are you to this. As you said, let it be. I love that example that you said, let it be the amplifier. Don't let it be the sole voice. At the end of the day, you're still you, you're still the person. You can just use this to your advantage. It's almost like, you know, when you're using different, it's on it it makes me kind of think of like our quizlets or like the when we were trying to get like the spark notes and when you were trying to just get different tools, everything like that. You didn't necessarily want to copy and paste everything that you got from this, but you wanted to kind of use that as a guide to get you where you need it to be. So, and I think that that's so important because I do feel like that with as more companies, as more people, as more, as more of the world is just starting to adopt this and move in this direction, it's really not going anywhere. It's not leaving us, and especially when it has proven to be able to help you automate, to be able to help make things easier. People are very much in their work smarter, not harder, or work more effectively. And I feel like AI can definitely do that, but don't just allow it to completely take over your business and do all that because people will quickly realize that okay, there's really no originality to this, or I can find a human to you. You you still at the end of the day, I feel like we still want that human to human interaction. You still want those reviews, you still want that feedback, you still want to be able to really talk to people face-to-face, virtual or everything. You don't necessarily want everything to feel like robotic or monotone or or or no emotion to it. I love that. Yeah. All right. Another abbreviation for you, three letters is time. So we we talked about the AI, but something that I feel like I've been seeing for quite some time, especially with my YouTube presence, SEO. How I've had people reach out to me to tell me about SEO scores and what SEO should be doing. I've talked to certain people that say they don't really think it matters. I've talked to other people that they're very much gung-ho about it, and it does matter, and you should definitely be intentional and paying attention to it. For those people out there who are trying to fight against algorithm or trying to appear in search results, or trying to, you know, or are in different search engines and trying to optimize that all just the same. Where does SEO fall? How important is it? What should people be doing to make sure that they're within the line of what's going on right now in the SEO world?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Yeah, it's uh for most businesses, it's really important. Uh like we touched on those companies who only work through Tender, that's a different base. But for the most of us, that we need to attract new business through um online. And so there's search engine SEO is search engine optimization. So it's an attempt to show up in Google and other search engines as highly as you can for as many phrases as you possibly can that are obviously targeted to what you do. Um, but it's not just search engines anymore. And the same principles that apply to search engine optimization apply to showing up in in uh AI platforms as well. So that's the good news. Those, if you do those things ethically, um, because realistically, all the tools are trying to do the same thing. They're trying to surface the very best information for someone uh having a conversation with a chat GPT or Googling, it's the same intent to surface the very best and specific information for that need. So that's um that's the good news. Search engine optimization over the years, there's always been um, because it's not always been as sophisticated as it as as it is now. Now that it's we've got large language models and it understands the full context of sentences and and so on, it does a really um uh quality job of finding the best information. But over the years, there was different times where people could cheat their way to the top. And so there was these little tricks. It was called black hat SEO. So it's unethical things that you could do to manip manipulate search engines into giving you ranking you probably didn't deserve. Actually, just before this uh this podcast, I was watching uh a YouTube video, hit my inbox, and I clicked the link of a probably what I would call an unethical SEO provider. Um, and they were going through all the different strategies they'd used in the past that no longer work. Uh and and whilst that's sort of fine, they'd changed their strategies over the years, they were just explaining what's what's changing. Um, it also reveals something uh that's potentially hazardous because if you did an unethical SEO practice back a few years ago, whilst it might have worked at that time, eventually Google realized what you're doing and they can penalize you, they can even completely blacklist you. And then what mean what that means is you won't show up in their search engine at all for a number of months or even years sometimes if it's bad enough. And so to dig yourself out of that hole to earn the authority and trust back in Google's eyes, incredibly difficult. Some people are saying Google um is is not going to be as relevant as it has been in the past. And that's possibly true to a degree, because people are not needing to um click through to websites to get information, they can get it at their fingertips on ChatGPT or whatever AI they want to use. Um, but that information in AI is actually getting pulled from online sources, and it may as well be your website and hopefully your brand will be recognized and mentioned. Um, so whilst the information in your website might not show up and get as many clicks as it once did through Google, it still has the potential to bring customers in in other in other ways. So that's the why that's the reason why you need quality content um that's shareable as well, so other people uh resonate with it and likely to share it through social media platforms, for example. And um, yeah, that's kind of where it's going. So people sometimes people over the years I've been working in this industry for for 20 years and and um SEO wasn't really a thing at the start, but when it became a thing, there's always been these times when it's where people have claimed that SEO is dead, but it's never been true. It's it's just that it it evolves and it continues to get more and more sophisticated. So yeah, the safe the safe play is always to do things ethically, to never try and cheat your way to the top. Earn your authority and trust and reputation, and that'll build for the long term. So things won't be the rug won't be pulled beneath your feet um, you know, in in years to come. You know, sometimes people will outs outsource SEO blindly and not really realize what was happening behind the scenes and all of a sudden they get a penalty. Um, that's a that's a horrible scenario. So you really gotta be careful who you use and who you choose to use in in these industries, and you can't just blindly um leave people to do their work in SEO. You've got to really know how they're going about it.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

And that's why I get so weary too, with when sometimes when these people reach out to me and they're just telling me that they can take me from 1,000 to 10,000 or 1 million, or they're sending me thousands of views, and I'm just like, instant, instant gratification isn't always great. It's not always just that that thing that you need. Yes, it may feel good in the moment. Yes, it may be something that it's like, wow, you you went to bed and it was this, and then you wake up and it was like that. But then it also kind of begs the question well, if it was that easy for you to do it, like what happened? Or was that like, and as and two, as you spoke to, as quick as you can get this, as quick as it can happen for you, is as quick as they can draw it back and it'd be taken away, and the penalty is gonna hit a lot harsher than what the reward was or what that instant was. So no, I I I'm very much a firm believer in the ethical way has to go. It it just can't be your way or the highway, you know, because at the end of the day, you're dealing with corporations, you're dealing with legalities, you're dealing with contracts, you're dealing with things behind the scenes that you don't even realize. And these companies, you know, when we agree to terms and conditions, we don't always read the fine print, we just scroll up and down really quick, and we know that we want to use it. So we have to click click agree, or we're not gonna get permission. But sometimes you don't know what you're signing up for, you don't know what these companies have done to get their backing because they've experienced things like this on a large scale. This is definitely not their first rodeo in situations like this. So it's always important to just keep it, keep it by the book, keep it cookie cutter. And even if sometimes if that if that requires a longer game, a longer game plan, then that's all right. You want your business to to have longevity. As Wes just spoke to, he's been in this for twenty plus years. But if he didn't do everything that he was supposed to do, he may be telling a different story. So it it's just like, you know, you you have to you have to also reap what you saw and and as long as you're being that faithful That wise, that genuine, that authentic person, it'll it'll always continue to happen. It's not gonna always happen when you want it to, but it'll happen. So just stick with that. Now, I as I spoke to in the beginning, we're clearly on two different sides of the world. Australia uh got me here in Washington, DC, to be specific in the US. Being that you are based in Australia, though, I I think I would be naive, but I don't like to make assumptions. I would be naive to think that all your business is done just in Australia with the Australian businesses. Is that is that safe to say? Is that incorrect? Is are you do you guys pretty much work all over?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

No, probably the majority would be in Australia, but um being niched to a in to industries rather than location, um, that means we've got clients all around the world. You'll see in the on the home page um there are a bunch of brands that uh are global. So probably brands that are recognized around the world, certainly because they're um construction-related industrial brands. Those that are in that those fields will probably recognize the brand. Some of them are massive. And that's the benefit of niching because you you grow grow in your uh authority and knowledge for that thing. And so people around the world will find us and and want to work with us. As a small business, you just don't get that if and if you're generalist. So yeah, yeah, serving all all sorts. So happy to happy to chat with anyone. Obviously, sometimes the the um calls can either be my early morning or or later evening and and so on, and that that's fine. That's um that's all cool. I love to chat to people all around the world.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

And we love that. We we are definitely a very global and diverse audience, so that's good to know. I checked out the website, I knew what was going on, but I I just needed to put that question out there just so that people know that this is not like like you said, it's not, it may be industry specific, but we're not location specific. We don't, you know, we don't discriminate in that regard. So I love, I really do enjoy hearing that. Now, so the team. So you spoke to an amazing attribute of having your son being able to work with you one one day out of the week. I think that that's amazing. Like I said, you've motivated me now. I'm bringing my little brother in soon. So we're just gonna make that happen. But as far as the team at Uplift 360, when people reach out, when people may kind of inquire about a consultation or wanting to work with you or needing your services, what can they expect? What does the team comprise of? And what is an experience like when it comes to working with you and your agency?

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, so we're a small business, so all the client facing is through me. I'm there, I'm the guy that people will talk to each and every time. And so the team I got two two teams, uh, one in India and one in the Philippines. Um, it was all and then obviously my son with me here in Australia. So in Australia, it's myself and my son, um, and he's only one day a week. So, but the teams offshore. It's been a really great way. Uh, initially I had them all a bigger team in the Philippines, now I have two smaller teams, one in India. It's been really a massive plus simply because the slight different time zones mean that there's availability of people for things that sometimes need to happen later in the in the um evening. You know, if there's an if there's an emergency, uh things can get resolved pretty quick. So someone can drop things and and get onto an emergency scenario. You know, sometimes people will come to us um and have their website hacked, for example, and so they um they find us and we and we clean, you know, we need to get the logins, obviously, and then we can clean it up pretty fast. So those sorts of little advantages um of being having remote teams um around the world. It's been really cool. Um it's the pros and cons, of course, with with any way in which you structure a business. Um but uh yeah, initially I had um team team members here in Australia, but uh the way things move, there's uh obviously massive potential and opportunities and benefits um having things offshore too.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

We love growth, and I love that. And I think you spoke to a great point about just at all hours of the day. Because it's nothing like, you know, when somebody's having an issue, it's just the most important thing. This has to get done right now. Look, I need this, I need the attention, forget the business hours, I need help. Now I'm going through it, I'm panicking, especially if it's you know your business or something that you have going on. You know, I could only imagine being awake in in the middle of the night to something gone wrong with down the business, and I wouldn't know where to go, I wouldn't know who to seek or or what to go out to. So I love that you've kind of been able to just build that and have that flexibility amongst different places, different time zones, and even different spaces. Now, when you you spoke about growth and you spoke about massive potential, that's something that we love here on down to business. We love kind of catching people where they may be in their journey and then kind of following them along that journey and then seeing where they may go. But we also love the bigger picture things. So without spoiling anything, I definitely don't want to give away any secrets or any surprises or any things that you guys may be doing over there at Uplift 360. But I do just kind of want to give my audience some insight just the same. Is there anything that you guys are kind of looking to or looking forward to as we near the future where we're basically halfway through the year at this point in time is flying? But is there anything that you guys are looking forward to? Any clients, any projects, any new services or rollouts that you guys have upcoming?

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Uh yeah, certainly. So it'll be a gentle shift more and more toward um the consulting um side of the business, simply because the tech piece is becoming easier and easier. It's self-evident that eventually people will be able to do a lot of the tech piece themselves, and you won't need uh programmers. You know, we've got really high-end level of um programmers working with us. That piece obviously is going to diminish in its importance to the to the marketplace, and the the consulting um piece is going to become more and more important, the human side. Um, so that's something I need to consider. So I'll I'll play it out with with me doing that side for the short term, but eventually it'll be um hiring out people who can follow a similar process to what I do to on the consulting piece, which will which will be um a new set of challenges and um new new set of opportunities to grow personally as a leader, because I mean you can systemize you can systemize so much of building a website from a technical standpoint, or the programming and the software and everything that you do and the processes, so everyone does the same thing. And I'm really diligent and big on standard operating procedures, but that knowledge piece is more difficult to systemize. So I see that piece becoming more and more valuable. So what I do, um, more and more valuable. Um, so I need to find a way to be able to scale that piece because I I you know I what I'm one person. And so I'm I'm exploring and figuring out how I do that. And so there might be elements of, and it won't be this year, but it's something I perceive to be true, is eventually having ways, mechanisms in which I can have a one to many approach with some of this, some of this stuff. So aspects of having a broad range of people listening in on a a particular topic or scenario, but then having it applied practically tangibly through other means as well. So I'm figuring that out, but it's exciting. It's exciting for sure to um, you know, been running a business a certain way for a long time now, but to see the shifts, um, it's keeping me on my toes. I think it's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

I think it I think it's gonna be great. Even the fact that you're recognizing that things are not always gonna stay the same. The same way we adopt to AI, to SEO, to ever-changing laws and rules of business to location, to government to wherever we are, is the same way you have to do so in business. You know, to stay on that one-track mind, to stay just so monotone and land, it could, it could put you out of business almost. So you have to really, I've talked to so many different business owners who 30 years ago they wouldn't have envisioned what things look like. 40 years ago, they wouldn't have envisioned what things look like today. But instead of allowing that to, you know, turn them off or deter them from moving forward, they just adjusted, they learned a little bit. They had they had to put in that extra time on the back end, and they definitely did that for the success of the business, for the love of the game. So I love just to hear where your mindset is, where you're going. And I think that it's gonna be amazing. I'm excited to see the progress for sure. Now, um, I definitely don't want to wrap things up just quite yet, but I do just want to give my audience just some insights, some reminders, just the same. So we've we've discussed a lot today, from just bigger picture to the build out to where you are, to what you were thinking, to what you do, to your niche, to everything of the sort like that. Do you feel like there's anything that we haven't touched on, or even many, even any words of encouragement or uplift that you may want to leave from our audience, from our viewers out there?

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, well, I I think um the the goal is no matter what part of the journey you're on, is to think about what's the next practical step you can take to move yourself forward. Because if you if you just have the end goal in mind, it's so difficult to figure out the pieces of the puzzle that that take you to that end goal. I mean, typically we have it we have a good understanding where we where we are right now, we're in that moment, and we have an idea and an understanding if we're visionary to of what things should be. But getting getting there, that's the difficult part because it's it's sometimes unclear and we don't know precisely what's around the corner. So I would I would say just think about incremental improvement. What's going to take you a little bit closer today, or just think about it even weekly and monthly, potentially yearly, but smaller size chunks in which you can you can cope with and you can handle and you can actually do something. As you're starting to build momentum, uh things will evolve and take shape, and you can correct the course a little bit if you need to. But uh if you just stay stagnant, waiting for things to happen, nothing will happen.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Could we have picked a better debut episode, y'all, for the pod for a year of not recording? This is just it's motivated me. I I already came into this episode very just motivated, just I was happy, I was hype. I was telling Wes before we hit record. It's just like I'm I'm here. I was even a little nervous at the beginning, if y'all couldn't really tell, but it was just more so me just trying to get my bearings back, and I'm just it's just such good energy. But I I really just love that message because I feel like we we get so many people here, whether they're guests, whether they're audience, whether they're just supporters. There, I I've talked to so many people at so many different places in their journey. We started back in 2019, so arguably on kind of like the the front portion of COVID, and we worked through 2020 and we did all of that. So I've watched people go out of business, I've watched people think about business, I've watched people sit on things, I've watched people have massive success. I've watched people go through the the ups and the downs, the hills and the valleys. So I feel like everything that we've talked about today, everything that you even just put in your last reply, it can resonate with somebody. And I'm I'm I'm just hopeful, and I'm just, you know, I'm just very just grateful one for you just taking the time to join my platform to be here with me today. But I'm just hopeful that that speaks to somebody and that somebody just takes that extra step or just realizes that everything doesn't have to be perfect. We're here, we're adjusting, we're evolving, we're adapting. As Wes spoke about, as I even kind of highlighted, he didn't have it all figured out when he got here. He still doesn't have it all figured out, but he's he's he's making it happen. He's building the team, he's thinking bigger picture, he's helping people, he's uplifting those business-wise and personal wise. And so I think that that's really the name of the game. So before we officially wrap things up, um, can you please just let my audience know, let everybody know who may be here in this episode, the best places to contact you, to reach you, websites, social media, give us everything that you got.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Yeah, absolutely. I'll share that. But firstly, I'd just like to say if anyone's listening this far, obviously that it's you found the content engaging. So give it a like and a share. And there might be someone actually that comes to mind that you think will benefit, share them specifically to them. But I'll obviously give it a general like and a share and everything as well where you can. Uh, but yeah, so to connect it with me, uplift360.com.au is the website. And from there you can book a strategy call with me. Uh, and as we said before, we work with people all around the world, so there's no problem. Um, the calendar's quite wide open, so you should find a time slot that suits you. And uh, there's social media links and so on uh on the website as well. In the footer, you'll find all the links as well, so you can connect in in any uh platform you choose to do so.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Amazing. All right. Look, we we love when people not only come on here and and just provide the the gems, they just provide the value, they just provide the insight, but please take advantage of these business owners, these entrepreneurs, these veterans when they're offering themselves as a resource. That's not something that you get every day. We love that personable aspect. We love just to know that we're talking to Wes where we're getting that real-time interaction, we're getting that real help. We can really connect with him if we need to. So look, please just don't just don't take that for granted. But Wes, from me to you, from down to business to uplift 360, thank you so much for everything that you've done, for connecting with me, for the responsiveness, for the quick turnaround. Um, just thank you for the thank you for the energy. Seven is going on 8 p.m. here, and I'm just I'm I'm feeling good. It doesn't even feel like I had to work today. I'm feeling I'm feeling great. Doesn't feel like my alarm was off at 4 45 in the morning this morning. I'm feeling really good. So I thank you for just, you know, I thank you for one, everything that you're doing both locally and both globally. And two, I thank you for the value that you just came on here to provide to my audience. And as he said, if there's something that resonated with you, if if someone came to mind, if something came to mind, don't hesitate to act on it. Don't hesitate to share it, don't hesitate to reach out to myself, to Wes. We're we're here to help however we can. So look to all my to all my longtime supporters, to all the veterans, to all the people who just are coming along from this for the first time, for the people who may be coming from West's side, look, I thank y'all. We are far from finished. I love y'all. This has been another episode of the Down to Business Podcast here with tomorrow turn.