60PlusThePodcast
A podcast where we dive into conversations that remind us of who we are as human beings This isn't about what the guests do as a job, career, ability or skill set. its about what MAKES THEM HUMAN
60PlusThePodcast
Who Owns The Culture We All Love? | Episode 3 | 60Plusthepodcast
We dig into Rory’s resurfaced tweets, the line between growth and accountability, and why slow apologies inflame the wound. This conversation clarifies toxicity, cultural gatekeeping, bots fueling outrage, and a call for unity that puts music and community first, not clout.
• why doxxing and harassment cross any ethical line
• how typed retweets functioned as real statements in early Twitter
• why gatekeeping can protect culture without blocking genuine voices
• social media bots manufacturing racial tension and conflict
• celebrating Max B without tearing down Jim Jones
• algorithms vs artistry and the 15-second song problem
• hip-hop’s influence on pop and country production
• Black and Latino unity rooted in New York’s shared hip-hop history
• Wale’s growth from Attention Deficit to Everything Is A Lot
• standout tracks, sequencing, and why weary tone can convey truth
If you’re rocking with this conversation, subscribe, share it with a friend who loves hip-hop, and tell us your Wale top five right now!!
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Let's move that to the beginning. Because that's what's going on.
SPEAKER_01:Especially the whole Rory thing and all that other stuff. Crazy right now. Right. That shit is right. I didn't even, I didn't even think it had legs like that. It was his response to everything. That was that episode, like he kind of brushed it off.
SPEAKER_00:It was the spaces. The spaces was the problem.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the space. I wasn't there. I haven't heard the spaces. I know I saw the episode after the spaces.
SPEAKER_00:The episode wasn't the problem. It's the spaces. He apologized for being dismissive. And that's what I'm talking about. In the spaces, it basically the first thing was like, okay, yeah, whatever it happened. Then the second one was like, oh, okay, yeah, I read I did that. And so what it eventually got to, okay, I'm sorry. But it took like four different things to happen to get to.
SPEAKER_01:He also said that a lot of it was like fake retweets.
SPEAKER_00:Well, no, it's not fake retweets. Because remember back then on Twitter, it wasn't just as simple as pressing the retweet button. And that's like, yeah, but you say you could put RT dot dot. And those are your thoughts then. No, he's like, but you could fake retweets back then. Yeah, but at the end of the day, if you even doing that, those are your thoughts. That's what you thought at that time. That doesn't mean that you currently think like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, no, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But at that time, I don't think, I don't think any anytime you should be ever thinking like that, honestly. That's the point, though. And that's what they were trying to get him to understand. Like, you dismissing this like it's nothing, and it's like, yo, we allow you in this.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I think though? I honestly, and it sucks because it goes back to Kendrick Lamar always. I think the Kendrick, this all started because Rory said that Kendrick Lamar didn't deserve the Grammy for GNX.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it just shows how disgusting the Kendrick Lamar fans could be that they have to go, oh, he said, he said that the Kendrick Kendrick Lamar doesn't deserve the Grammy. Well, now we're gonna dig deep into his past and find tweets from 15 years ago so we could crucify him.
SPEAKER_00:Now that that part is whack. That part they're going back to 15, 20 years of. Like, yo, bro, like, come on. I don't I don't like that person. I don't agree with what he said.
SPEAKER_01:Right. What he said is trash. Right. It's whack.
SPEAKER_00:But that to me is Twitter back then was fucking crazy. Because that to me is more of the issue, though. It's the fact that you you thought this way, you thought it was okay. But back then, wasn't he a kappa already? Yeah, he was in whatever one of them fraternity. I don't know. Yeah, he was a capper, whatever one being.
SPEAKER_01:That's a black fraternity. Yeah, all of them. He's gone to HBCUs. So look at the like look at it like that. Like I'm sure his Kappa brothers saw this. Right. So they didn't care.
SPEAKER_00:Because he would have, he would have probably not done that. That fraternity stuff is weird, man. Because I don't, I don't know. I don't know fraternity life like that. But they look like they've turned a blind eye to stuff, even when they do know what it is. Maybe having dudes beat each other and do all that weird stuff. Yeah, that that that stuff is weird to me, though. I never understood the fraternity thing.
SPEAKER_01:There's the thing that just it just doesn't sit right with me, man, is that part where it's like just because he said that Kendrick Lamar didn't deserve the the I don't think it was just that it was that it was that's the only reason this happened.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I'm not saying that's not the only reason. I think that a lot of people don't fully watch the show, and they heard that part and was like, okay, we're going crazy. And what he How nasty is that though? What he said was he he's pretty sure that Kendrick will win, but he would like to see clips win at least. And I agree with that best rap album or something like that. And and I'm cool with that. Kendrick was the win, but to me, it's one of those where I hate that rule of how can you win best rap album, but then you're both in the best overall album of the year category, and you don't win that one, but the person who was in your category wins. It's like you can't to me, you can't have both. You can't have the best overall album of the year, but then when it's not for best rap album, you don't have the best rap album, and you're in rap. That that's that's the part where there's a disconnect, I feel. And I think that's where it kind of got lost in translation with the Kendrick stands and what actually what he was actually saying. Yeah, because though listen, anyone who does that who exhibits that kind of behavior is exhibiting stand that's stand behavior on any side. I don't care whose fan, the beehive, Nicki Minaj fans, all of them people that that dox people. Like why doxing somebody?
SPEAKER_01:Bro, the fucking the the the the barbs, they they they don't play that. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:They don't play that, but they did that, but they did that to Demaris, though, on Rory and Maul joint. Because again, she like you said, she disagreed and didn't think that he was gonna or he should win. That doesn't give you the right to dox somebody or put put out where their parents and stuff live. Like you have nothing else to do with your life. You don't know Kendrick, you don't know none of these people, you don't need to do that, but still Rory should be held accountable.
SPEAKER_01:No, 100%. I mean, you should be held accountable. Should you though? I mean, again, you should. It's like 15 years ago. But if you're in this culture, I know who I was 15 years ago, right? It could be like I was a different person, dog. Right, and and that's cool. But if I was to be held accountable for the things I was I did 15 years ago, I'd be in prison.
SPEAKER_00:But it's one of those where if everything you do is involving hip-hop and rap and all that stuff, and you downplaying black people and you pasty white, it look a kind of way, it look weird. That the same stuff we talk about, Adam 22 and Vlad and all of them culture vocia stuff. And Rory usually doesn't give that off. But when you don't get I don't know, you don't get that's what I'm saying. You get a sincere, genuine person who loves rap, who loves RB. So it's one culture just don't love the culture. So when you he makes RB music, he makes an RB album like every year. So it's one of those when you see those tweets, they don't match the person we've been presented with. So that's why I think you gotta have some accountability. It's like ice on Joe Button joint. Ice used to wow out on Twitter. Hell yeah, he was king troll.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny because he on the podcast he don't like to talk at all.
SPEAKER_00:Because he knows on Twitter, he had everything to say, but he was the main troll. But that goes to what you were saying with growth, getting older. The thing that's 10 years ago, 12, 15 years ago, your life changes.
SPEAKER_01:I think also because his face wasn't out there, so he was just like the the the avi.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So nobody really knew who he was. Now you could put the you know the face to the to the card.
SPEAKER_00:All right, we see you. Oh, wait a minute. It's you talking that? No, no, no, no, no. So I think that's another part of it too.
SPEAKER_01:But I think I think it's just so it to me it's so hard to accept what's going on with Rory because yeah, what he said is super fucked up, right? But I feel like in in hip-hop, right, in hip hop itself, there's a problem with racism too. In the sense of like, I mean I'm I'm a hip-hop artist, right? And also comment a lot on hip-hop. And I make a lot of very bold statements about the hip-hop that I like, the hip-hop that I don't like, what I do, you know, I very I stand on my sobox and I stand on my square, and nobody can move me from my square, right? And I feel like if if if what's good for the goose is also good for the gander, right? And I feel like I've bro. I don't want to say it like this, but it ha I I I'm not defending Rory at all. And I just want you to know that. But I just want you to understand this is what I go through in hip hop as a Latino male that is white passing. Right. I've gotten more racism thrown at me from the you would call Kendrick Lamar fans or just the real hip-hop, real hip-hop purists, than ever any white person has ever thrown at me in my life. I've been called the SPIC. I've been told that my family should drown, you know, swimming over the border. I've I've been told everything under the book racially, and never, and and and I invite, I invite everybody that ever watches this, whether it hits today or in or a year from now goes viral. I invite everybody to go through all of my social media history. You will never find anything racist because I don't have a racist bone in my body. So I'm cool, I'm clear with that. But I I just feel like I've gone through that so much that it's like I well now. Let's we gotta look at y'all too, though. Y'all are racist as fuck. Y'all are fucking racist as fuck, because I I talk about a culture that I love, that I was born and raised in, that I am from the Mecca of. And because I am white passing, and because I'm Latino, and because Trump is the president, and all this other ice shit is happening, it they it's like they feel like it's okay to throw all this racist shit out. And I'm gonna wrap this all up in saying it's cool when y'all do it, but then when somebody from 15 years ago said something slightly fucked up, y'all want to cancel them. That's not right.
SPEAKER_00:I get what you're saying. I think that a part of that is gatekeeping in a good way, just not letting any person in, because that's how hip hop started, unfortunately. We started with hip-hop and we gave it away immediately. Yeah, but Latinos was part of hip hop from the beginning. No, not not not saying that, but I'm just talking in in just a general sense now. In the beginning, when you go back to Sugar Hill gang and all of them, everything they signed went to a whole nother company. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So off the rip. But that's what Jay said. I'm I'm I'm uh what is it? Uh he said um I'm triple charging people for what they did for the cult brush.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So it's like back in the day, so I think now having people, especially now, anybody can have a voice because of social media. Oh, no matter who they are. 100%.
SPEAKER_01:I agree with that. Not not everybody deserves the voice. Right. But those that actually respect the culture and have a very informed view of the culture should be able to speak on it. And just because their opinion doesn't align with yours, yeah, doesn't give you the right to throw racial comments at them.
SPEAKER_00:See, that's I think is is the biggest thing. The fact that we can't live in a society where someone has a different opinion than you. It's okay. Music is subjective. 100%. So just because I like something doesn't mean the next person has to like it. Music is subjective. So it's okay if the Kendrick album comes out or whoever it is, just get off Kendrick. Whoever it is, the album comes out and you don't like it. That's fine. I think there's a way to say it respectfully and not, you know, there's the like put a like I don't think what Rory said was disrespectful. Once you get in the race, it automatically becomes disrespectful, or you talk about skin color, or she's like, Did he did he did he say that? Yeah, I think what did he say? I think he said something about one of the girls' skin color or something like that. No, no, what did he say about Kendrick? Oh no, about Kendrick, it literally was just about the whole Exactly. I I don't think I want G, he said I want GNX to win, but at the same time, I want clips to win. And that's the thing, too.
SPEAKER_01:People said this on the Joe Bun pod, on other places where it's like Bro because Rory is white, they went back into his tweets and they found some shit, which is again, I'm not gonna say that it was right, it's wrong. You should never say anything racial, because fuck race. Race is not even a thing, bro. Like, we're all human beings, bro. You know what I mean? Like we love hip hop, and we're so I get that. My thing is you went all the way back 15, 10, 15 years just because he didn't agree that Kendrick Lamar deserved the fucking Grammy, bro. That's sick, and that and that's sick in the head behavior, bro.
SPEAKER_00:That's people who don't have time, who have too much time, I mean, who don't have lives. That don't, that don't it's like because if you have a life, you're not doing that. You're not even trying to sick in the head behavior, bro. You're not thinking about that.
SPEAKER_01:You're not because again, you And it's those same people with again. What I was saying, bringing back to what I'm saying is it's those same people that are in my comments, like because I I like I I I go, I I do a lot of views and because of my what I what I say, and I can show you thousands of comments of and thousands of DMs of people just because I'm white passing Latino talking about how you know my mother should be R-worded by 100 Africans. Now that kind of stuff like that. Like, what the fuck? Like, oh, I wish there's a there's you there's a million burritos stuck stuffed in your ass. Like, first of all, I'm not Mexican. You should say arepas because I'm Colombian. First of all, we don't eat burritos, we eat arepas. But you know, I'm like, but but again, it's like to me, it's like I've never I've I have never gotten racism from a white person. Maybe because I've never really been around white people like that, because I'm from New York. But I did, I have in the last two years since I've been doing this social media thing and then going viral, I've been seeing a lot of racism coming from the African American community.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think that's just social media in general. I think that's any community you're going to be.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm sure that there is African American uh content creators that get it from the Latino. That's what I'm saying. It's it's one of the I get it. Yeah, I'm just speaking about my experience. So what I'm saying is Rory saying that and having that be the catalyst to going back to his tweets, I do not agree with. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If he if he would have said something race-related or something like that. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:If he would have said something that was like, oh shit, that's a little racist.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But then his response to it also didn't help the thing. I think it's one of those when you sincerely dismissive. Right. When you sincerely apologize off the rip, yeah, I think that changes everything. And a lot of times people don't know how to apologize.
SPEAKER_01:But watch, Mike, watch, watch if this clip goes viral. Watch the comments. Oh, for sure. No, watch the comments. Watch what happens. Watch, and and I I I I I invite, look at my history. You'll never find shit. But watch how nasty it gets. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And it's it's just I I don't know. I think it's just the the discourse that social media has caused over the years, and just everyone having a voice. Not everyone needs a voice. Not everybody, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Not everybody deserves the microphone. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it's also what we decide to pay attention to as well, too. When we feed into that negativity, then that's all we're gonna end up seeing. Feeding into it. It's one of those where it's like we don't need to feed into that kind of negativity. Man, mute them people that's talking about. Oh no, I do that. I uh my block button, yo, my block list is crazy right now. It's ridiculous, it deserves its own zip code.
SPEAKER_01:My block list got his own zip code right now.
SPEAKER_00:That's crazy right now. Stuff is unnecessary. And like you said, that has nothing to do with the music. We're talking about hip-hop. That's all we're talking about. It's talking about the music.
SPEAKER_01:But people are very passionate about hip-hop, and I appreciate that. I I I truly appreciate the fact that people are passionate about hip-hop because I'm passionate about hip-hop. And it's uh a culture that they're saying is dying. I don't believe that. I feel like we're just in a in a situation where we're in a like correction, like how the stock market corrects itself. I think hip-hop right now is correcting itself, but you mentioned negativity, and you mentioned about how negativity spread through social media, right? And I wanted to touch on Max B coming home. Welcome home, Max. Welcome home, Max B. The wave god. Yes, almost 20 years. What was it? 17, 16? Yeah, like 17 years since he was gone. I remember the age of the come up DVDs and smack DVDs and the you know, the French together, him. Yeah, the mac and cheese out uh mixtapes, and I remember that era, and that era was a beautiful and when Max was with Jim and those incredible records, you know, you wanna be down with the dipshit. Well, girl, you gotta get your lips sweat. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:Like, you know, ushered in the whole style that a lot of people still employ to this day.
SPEAKER_01:Today, all that yeah, uh A Boogie talks about how Max B was a great influence to him. Um, but talk about the hate part. I feel like people have put more stock in using Max B's freedom to hate on Jim Jones than to actually celebrate Max B's freedom.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like to me, the what does Jim like I get they had their issue in the past, but Jim has repeatedly come out. Hey, I don't want to talk about that. Exactly. I'm not talking about it. He doesn't talk about it unless he's asked about it. Because it was one of those, I think on their last pod, him, Davy fabulous. No, Dave East asked Jim, like, yo, when he comes home, I'm gonna go see him. Is that cool with you? But Dave has records with Max. That's what I'm saying. So Jim was like, Ain't no problem with me, man. I I just want nothing to do with him. I don't, I don't got no problem. I don't want no issues. I'm separated from that. And what's the I don't I don't see the big deal about that.
SPEAKER_01:I think I think it's it's it's it's it's the fucking crabs in a bucket shit. It's it's the it's the it's the pe again who's more fucking relevant. This is the second time we're talking about Jim Jones on this podcast, and it's not by design. I'm I'm not trying to just talk about Jim, but it just keeps coming up because Jim is relevant. But it's like I feel like the people feel like because Jim Jones is like out here really working, and I feel like it's one of those things where it's like, look at him actually trying to do good for himself. Look at him actually trying to do this and trying to do that. And it's like now that Max is home, they're like, ha, now Jim Jones is oh, he's panicking. Like I saw that Jim Jones did something for the community the other day. He put a whole truck on, I think on 118th in Lennox. Uh it was like a lobster truck, and he was feeding the whole community. He was like, yo, everybody come. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. You could eat for free for like four or five hours. Yeah. And it's a whole bunch of lobster everything, lobster everything, right? And I in my mind, I'm like, that's one, that's ill to do, period, but two, that's ill to do to do right now when people are still not getting their snap benefits. Food stamps haven't hit yet. Especially then, because I think right now that snap the snap benefits hit. Yeah. But at the time. At that time, that the snap benefits had not hit, and it's been like day 10 type shit that the snap benefits hadn't hit. And I'm seeing a whole bunch of corny ass content creators who live in this like grown men. Like, how you a grown man with a gossip column, first and foremost? You gossip girl as a grown thug. You've been to jail before, but you got a gossip column. And they're and they're they're just hating on Jim. Oh, look, he's panicking because Max B just came home. Look what he's doing. He's such a cornball. No, sir, you're the cornball. You are the cornball because you're the one that is actually trying to hate on a man that is doing something for the community. You are the cornball. Period. Now, what they don't know is that this is what Jim does all the time. Right? He he he always does things for Thanksgiving, for Christmas, on random, on a random Wednesday. Right. He'll just do shit for the community. Right? So my thing is, what do you think about that mentality of like just utilizing Max B's supposed coming home celebration to put negative energy on another man?
SPEAKER_00:It's just clicks and stuff like that. A lot of, I think a lot of that a lot of that conversation is on social media. I don't think the streets is like that right now, honestly. Oh no, it never is. Social media never equates to the streets. And and that's what I think we gotta delineate that difference, draw that line in the sand of what's real life and what's online. And a lot, like you say, a lot of this discourse is online, and it's just to get attention and stuff. Because how much you want to bet if Jim Jones was in front of one of them people's faces, yo, Jim, can I get a flick? Can we flick it up? Can we do this? Can we do that? And you literally was the person just talking trash. If you was in front of his face, it would be a completely different story.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's funny, I was thinking about this because I've never met Jim, right? But I I support a lot what he does from his music to the things that he does. And I and I was thinking about it the other the other day, and I was like, I think that even if I had the opportunity to meet Jim Jones, I wouldn't take it. Right. Why? Because I don't I I I'm I'm a person that I want to admire you from afar.
SPEAKER_00:Don't meet your heroes kind of thing?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, he I don't he is he is a hero in a sense. But yeah, in that sense, like I just want to admire you from afar. I want, I just I don't want to, you know what I'm saying? Because you got a lot going on, I got a lot going on. You know, I don't there the expectation when you meet somebody is like, oh, I met you or not. Like, you know what I mean? I just I just wanted to I wanted to keep it where it is. And I know that there's gonna be a time that I'll probably get an opportunity, being that I know certain people that he knows, and vice versa, that I might be able to be in the same room. That's why I even thought about it. Right. Because I was like, I probably will get that opportunity to be in the same room with him, and I probably would never take it. Right. I probably would never be like, yo, I want to be in the same room with Jim. Never. Uh like I it gotta happen just organically. Yeah, like like organically, like you, but I would never like it's just because I I respect a man's space, but it's just like I just I want to admire what you do from afar, right? Type shit, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like I that's just what it is, you know. And I I feel like again, back to even to the Rory thing, I think like it's just that there's a whole like crab in a bucket mentality mentality that just is is like running rampant on on social media, and it it it it it it fucks with my my and I know it shouldn't. Again, I've been doing content for a while, so like now that I that my content is like it get you know it hits like algorithms and shit, and I get comments, and it's just like I should everybody says, Don't look at the comments, don't look at the comments, don't look at the comments, but it's like I'm a human being, right? Yeah, I'm gonna look at the fucking comments and it's just like you look at it and you're just disgusted by how how ignorant and how nasty humanity can be.
SPEAKER_00:Just to try to hurt you. That's what it is, because they're not trying to understand you, right?
SPEAKER_01:So it's like now I've gotten to a point where at first I was fucking, I was in them comments. I was I was a fucking, I was like, like, like uh uh uh Lionel from 300, like you know, lion is like I was like, yo, who? Yo, bro, I was I was fighting in them comments, but you waste your time doing I've gotten to a point where I understand I'm not gonna argue with somebody who has made their mind about misunderstanding me.
SPEAKER_00:Or argue with someone who's not even real.
SPEAKER_01:That's another thing. Segue of the year right now. Segway of the year, somebody that is not real. I have I really believe in going back to the racism part that I I see a lot, even though a lot of those are real, I do see a lot of those being bots. Yeah. And I and I started seeing it, so I started seeing a lot of the same profiles leaving almost identical comments on separate pages, no, on separate videos of mine, yeah, right. And at first I'm like, damn, this person's like obsessed with me, right? And then I was like, oh shit, this is a fucking bot. Uh-huh. Not even a real person. Then it poses the question why is this a bot? What what is the agenda here? Who is behind this bot? Is it the CIA? Is it Russia? It could just be some random person. That's all it is. I believe there is an agenda behind it. Yeah, I don't think there's random. I think there is an agenda to literally create whether racial tension or economic tension. Because I see bots on now that I've I've been able to identify the bots, I'm seeing those bots within other bubbles of topics. Yeah. Right? So whether it's economic, whether it's this or that, I see those those those bots trying to antagonize.
SPEAKER_00:Because as soon as a keyword pops up in their algorithm thing, it's automatically, okay, now I can send this response. No matter what the video is about, and you see those same people keep popping up, those are real people, those are just bots that have been taught by somebody by an AI, or even by a person. Hey, every time this keyword comes up, this race thing, this is what I want you to say. Every time this comes up, and then they argue with you, no matter how many times you you you argue with it, it'll come back with a response and then immediately immediately. And that's why I say it's one of those where it's like, okay, we have to separate what's real and what's fake, bro. What's fake, and not get caught up in the matrix. It's so easy to get caught up in the matrix in a system.
SPEAKER_01:And and then so my thought is because I was a kid that used to like breaking things apart and trying to see the workings of everything, right? So I like even with that, like, what is that? Why is that? What the fuck is going on? Why are the why do these bots exist? What is the what what what is the purpose of this shit? Right. What is the agenda here? Like, why what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:A lot of it is to cause divisiveness. If I can cause divisiveness without actually having to do anything, and that AI is doing it, then I've done my goal. Like the Who do you think is behind this? I think it's a lot of different people. I don't think it's just one people. Okay, I agree with you. I agree with you. So I think you'll have a group of white supremacists that do it, you'll have a group of FAB people that'll do it, FBA people, pardon me. Okay, that'll do it.
SPEAKER_01:I think you have just so you think there's like sex, like like FBA has this own bot section. Absolutely, like the white nationalists have their own bot section.
SPEAKER_00:And and then, and then you got the no no don't disrespect, but you got the losers that's in their house all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's all smell like old crayons and shit. But that's who they have time to, that's all they have time to do. So as soon as they come home from whatever they're doing, okay, oh, let's see what's going on here. Oh, let's mess this person like. So it's like, come on. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Because I I really believe, like, I think social media, social media can can it can be the downfall of humanity, bro.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's a it's a plus and a negative at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:We need it, like I said, like I said last episode, like we need, we need, we need it, right? It's a necessary evil. But just being where we are and like how what being that I've I've been in the thick of it, right? I can see what's happening, and I can see how it's it has affected me and my mental health. And I'm I'm very strong. I'm a very strong-minded person. So I know that if it affected me. It can affect anybody. If it affected me that I don't let shit penetrate me in a way, pause. Pause. But I don't I don't let things fuck with me. Bother you, right? I don't let things bother me because I've been through shit. Imagine somebody that hasn't, that doesn't have that kind of strength, how much it might affect them. How much it may turn them into doing shit.
SPEAKER_00:Other things and yeah, mess them up mentally. It could turn somebody racist because they keep seeing this stuff. You know what I mean? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Like, like if I wasn't so grounded in who I am, and I get I keep getting attacked in the way that I get attacked. I'm I like I could imagine a kid that doesn't have the strength that I have, be like, all these black people keep messing with me, right? And then it's like, fuck them, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right, it turns them, you know what I mean? But that's one of those where the simple thing is. And it could be the other way too. Right. But it is it's one of those, again, that's not real life. Just cut it off. Exactly. Cut it off. It's that it's literally sometimes it's the simplest thing, is the best thing, and sometimes, hey, all right, that's going on. Click it off. Yeah, and it's one of the I think we forget that sometimes because we get so engulfed and it's become a regular part of our lives, a part of our everyday lives. It's like, yo, bruh, just Cut it off for a little bit. Just just see. Go outside and go breathe. Breathe that dirty New York air. Watch what it does. Or touch concrete. Don't take the train. Hold on to the subway pole on the train and get sick. Get them fucking bacteria in you. It'll change your life. It'll change your life sometimes. Sometimes just get off of get off of online, please. Sometimes. I think that's the grand scheme of this. It's not real life. Go outside. I know going viral is cool. I know getting likes and views is cool. I think I think live a life. You know what it is?
SPEAKER_01:Is like once you become like once you make the decision to be a creator, it's like I'm gonna be a creator. That's your life, right? And you have to be all in, right? Just like when you're a basketball player, you gotta shoot your, you know, your thousand shots. Right. It's just the same thing as creator. I gotta create, I gotta be online, I gotta be on social media, right? So like if if you're a creator that is not a social media, you're not a creator. Exactly. You know, you're just a guy that be on social media every night. You know what I'm saying? Right. So I understand those that are chronically online because you have to be. I am one of those people that I am chronically online. I do have a nine or five, but I want to not be able to have a nine of five so I can be a creator full time. Right. So in in order to do that, I have to be creating all the time and be online all the time learning about the algorithms and learning all that shit, right? But I do feel like um social media has also fucked up. We were just talking about music, right? Like has also fucked up music, right? Because music has become so microwavable and and and you know the algorithms have dictated music and and like your 15-second TikTok dance has has like taken over the hit record, right? So like you'll have like a a song that has like a hot 15 seconds, and then the hot 15 seconds does 10 billion streams, right? But then the rest of that song is ass cheeks.
SPEAKER_00:That's why I say for me, I for me personally, social media don't affect nothing musically, music-wise, because I'ma like what I'ma like at the end of the day. Regardless, at the end of the day, I'ma like what I like, and I prefer quality over quantity. So a lot of the times, with like you said, with these quick pace, 15-minute TikTok records, we'll put out a 20-song album. The songs towards the end of the album don't mean nothing. This really is an EP with four good songs on it, but because we gotta keep people coming here, it's the whole thing and all of that. That's the part to me that sucks about it. Because people aren't making music because they love to, they're making music to fit an algorithm. Oh, yeah, oh yeah. And that's what it is nowadays. But to me, the genuine music is what hits the most when you look at the clips album. Yes, they played the algorithm game by going different places for interviews. Oh, they did a rollout. Yeah, that's a fucking rollout, right? But that's what everybody used to do, it's what you're supposed to do for your album.
SPEAKER_01:And it's crazy how they thought it was like this fucking revolutionary thing, like, oh my god, the the clips right, bro.
SPEAKER_00:That's what everybody did. They're putting in the work, but it's the other thing too, where the music matches the work that they put in. Yes, definitely. Yeah, the music is incredible, and I think that is also the key that we're forgetting is like, yo, just make if you make good music, nine times out of ten, you will get what comes to you naturally. When you look at a JID, Jay, I've been following JID's career from when he was in Spillage Village with Earth Gang and all of that. Well, I'm not gonna get it. Slify a group. Slipier group. I hope they get back together. Shout out to Dr. Dot, he just dropped his new album pretty good. Earth Gang's crazy pretty good album. But when you see where JID has come from, it's been a consistent grind of put your head down, put the work in. And you see the quality in his music get better with every album. And this album, he finally got the Grammy nom that he was working towards. Like, hey, I just want to get nominated for a Grammy and a BET award. But that's not to him. Those are the two things he wanted. He said, I just want to be nominated for a Grammy and a BET award. I feel that though.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's I feel I've always I've always wanted, I mean, we as any musician should ever want to be nominated for a Grammy.
SPEAKER_00:But for him, he for him that's like an Oscar for an actor, right? And it just shows it's recognition for your work that the work that I put in was superior to everybody else's, and that I put in a good body of work. And I think that we forget that, but the second half of the year, especially in rap, the second half of the year, the quality has stood out from clips to JID to Chance the Rapper to Mick Jenkins. These people who are supposed to be at the top and who have been putting in the work, it's showing. And it's showing, like, hey, we need these people to speak the way they're speaking, to rap the way they're rapping, to make music the way they are, so that the people up under can do the same thing and follow.
SPEAKER_01:You can have your little we were talking about with Zoe last episode, like the big homie thing, like though. Like, you know, even in music, like that got lost.
SPEAKER_00:Push a 50 and malice is what 52? Yeah, yeah. No, they're grown-ass men. But that's the thing, they're reinventing what hip-hop is. When we were growing up, there are no 50-year-olds in hip-hop. KRS1. No, not me. I mean, yeah, but but to to I mean KRS one's not making he made he could have made an album.
SPEAKER_01:KRS one always wanted to stay in KRS1 but lane. Just any of those. KRS One wasn't gonna make an album with Pharrell in in you know what I mean. But even but even like these newer, these like newer OGs, like the clips, understand the difference between I gotta always stay in nostalgia land and not like, you know, I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna keep my quality, but I'm also going to make contemporary sounding music.
SPEAKER_00:But just even at that time, we wouldn't have accepted it nowhere. We don't want to hear old ass K RS1 in the club. Because he never fucking, he never changed. Well, no, no, no, no, no. Not even just that part. I'm just talking in general. He never even changed his look. He always looked like KRS one from but but look, but look at the clips. The clips look is the same, it's just their clothes fit better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but they always were cool. Like, he always kept kept with his fashion, like before that with play clothes and his own survey.
SPEAKER_00:He always was like fashion forward. No, for sure, for sure. I'm not I'm not even talking like that. Because when you go, when you look at Gary. Harris Warm was never fashion forward. No, no, no, never. No, no, no. God, no, no, never. But I think it just it goes with hip-hop. As as hip-hop ages, we allow the that generation to continue to make music. When you look at Nas, Nas came out originally in 91. That's his debut. Your debut, his debut album is 94. Live in the barbecue was 93. Nah, 91. I promise you. Live in the barbecue? I promise you, his verse is in 91 because then the joint with MC Search comes out after, that's in 92.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So when you have an automatic guns in 92. Right, that's that's 92. Okay. So when you have the longevity of 94 all the way to 2025, putting out six albums in three years, and them being important at the age that he is. It's some Bernard Hopkins shit. Where b hop was 48 and won the world title.
SPEAKER_01:At middle age.
SPEAKER_00:That's not even like like yeah, like George Foreman. You get what I'm saying? No. So I think that now as we age, hip-hop is aging.
SPEAKER_01:And we're allowed Hip Hop. Because we're in the first generation where the the parents are as cool as the kids. Mm-hmm. In in hip-hop. So like like I saw somebody talk about how like we're in the the first era where the parents are shopping in the same stores as the kids are. You know, like where like the the parents are speaking as much as similar slang, right. As the kids are. Right. Like we we are the coolest era of parents in history.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. You got sneak parents that are sneakerheads and stuff like that. So they relate to the millennial parent. Right. They relate on the same level. So it's one of those, I think, that when we just as we see hip hop grow, things are gonna change, things are gonna move, things are gonna fluctuate. Like you said, it may not be at its peak popularity-wise, talking about the charts and all that stuff. But we but I want that.
SPEAKER_01:Like I'm a guy that if I root for a team, I want my team to win chips. I want I want to see my team in the playoffs, I want to see my team get into the getting busy. I don't want to see my team uh in their rebuild year every fucking year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but hip hop was at the top, and it's still- I want to keep seeing them at the top, it still is, but everybody has to lose eventually. Everybody has to lose this. And again, spots fluctuate. But if you got Taylor Swift remaking music, not even new music, she remaking her. She re-re-recording her songs because of the masters. So every album is that smart though. No, no, and I'm not saying that's smart as fuck. Listen, business-wise, uh huh. Smart. Amazing. But if you drop a 20-song album in the first 13 songs of Taylor Swift's songs because of what streaming is and all of that stuff, that has to me that has no real bearing on influence outside and what's going on when you go outside and the songs you hear and stuff. The biggest fad right now amongst any kid, 6'7, 6'7, that's from a rap song.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's from uh what's his name? Uh, the kid from Philly.
SPEAKER_00:Whoever he is. I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:He his we're not even gonna get into that. But yeah, the dude from Philly.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just saying, the biggest thing right now is from a rap song. Whether the song is popular or not.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, listen, hip-hop culture itself got it transcends everything. Like everything is hip-hop. Like we we are we will forever be the cool culture. And that's my big we are the culture of cool regardless. I'm talking about as a music person, I would like to see the music be big.
SPEAKER_00:I think even musically, country right now sounds like rap half the time.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we have a lot, a lot of the people from rap are making country stuff.
SPEAKER_00:No, but that that's what I'm saying. Like, we Beyonce made a whole uh she's not hip-hop, but she is hip hop Jason. But even when you hear a Morgan Whalen song, it sounds like it has the 808s, it has the snares, it has the highest. I don't care what they want to say to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's hip-hop. Yeah, it's all hip-hop. That's a hip-hop. Jelly bean and all that. Jelly Bean used to be with 3-6 mafia. Jelly Roll. Yeah, my bad. Jelly Roll. Jelly Roll. Jelly Roll.
SPEAKER_00:Jelly Roll used to Jelly Roll used to be with 3-6 mafia. It's like, come on, look at Pulse Malone. Yeah, he gets his start because of hip-hop. Yeah, he transitioned after, but why Iverson is a hip-hop record.
SPEAKER_01:I love that song.
SPEAKER_00:So, but it's just one of those things where it's like, yeah, even if it's not a rapper or a rap song at the top, the influence is so great that even if it isn't one of these other songs, like Shake It Off. Shake It Off by Taylor Swift don't sound nothing like a country song. No, it's not a country song. When she when she came in the game, she was a country artist. People forget that. Until Kanye get up there and tell her to shut up and Beyonce was really the winner. That's when everything changes and we go pop and all the records start sounding like black records that are the best ones. That's not a mistake.
SPEAKER_01:She got all the writers. She was like, fuck that. We got all these writers.
SPEAKER_00:That's not a mistake. Same with Miley, it's not a mistake, and that goes back to the point before about the gatekeeping and stuff. You keep letting these people come in, get hot, get their money, and then be like, I'm not black. That's why I'm glad we got Tommy Richmond about the paint. Get him up out of here. Cool. You don't want to be nominated in a rap or RB category.
SPEAKER_01:Peace out then. I mean, he he did uh it's like again, these white, um, these white people, they do that shit. Like they'll they'll they'll come in and have a cool hip-hop record, get cool with the hip-hop crowd, and then say, Oh, I'm not a hip hop.
SPEAKER_00:Uh uh-uh, no one fuck yourself, bro. Exactly. So that's why I say sometimes, not all the times, but sometimes gatekeeping is okay. There's not sometimes that because we've been burnt so many times.
SPEAKER_01:But I think I think I think I think it's it's it's evident who we need to gatekeep from, though. Right. I I think I I think like see, it's not evident. It's not evident. You I could I could have told you that that posty was gonna fucking go country. We didn't know that though. You know what I'm saying? Like, like you but looking at like I he's not that's not really him.
SPEAKER_00:But look at Tommy Richmond, right? I knew I could I could tell but T, but look, he comes in the game with Brent Fires. Brent Fires, amazing RB artist, black dude. So once you find out that's him, then when you see the video, it's just him surrounded by a bunch of black people in the studio. I ain't never raped all that, it's number black people around him. So, of course, at first you're gonna be like, all right, he must be valid. Let's see what he's gonna do. But then when you get nominated for oh, this is the best rap RB song or best this song, don't put me in that category.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not a rapper, I'm not an RB singer, I'm shot himself in the foot with that though, because nobody gives a fuck about him now.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's the point. And look, that's how it's supposed to be. Yes, go fuck yourself, yes. It's like cool. You don't want to be with us? Say let's now go fend for yourself. Now them songs ain't doing nothing. That album flopped, his new single ain't doing nothing, and now you asking for these people back. So dub. But that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01:Like, again, I could have told you Tommy Richardson or whatever his name is is not gonna be in hip hop. I could have told you just by looking at him. I don't you're not really hip-hop, bro. You just you just you playing the part, you cosplaying type shit.
SPEAKER_00:It's not like on some Mac Miller stuff. Mac Miller was uh hip-hop is head, genuinely, everything about him.
SPEAKER_01:He's my best ever. He's my best ever. Oh, of course. I'm not mad. Emma's number one, Emma's number one, and Mac's number two. Exactly. For me, it's one of those two you guys. And they're interchangeable. Um, but I could have told, but you could tell, Mac. You could tell from when Mac used to do the freestyles, how he used to rap. Look at the artists you collaborated with in the shit that he was saying in his raps.
SPEAKER_00:This kid studies hip hop craft, music, just music in general from the jazz albums. He used to do yeah, blues. He used to do blues and jazz. Larry Lovelace. And it was still very soulful.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Uh-huh. It was still very soulful. You could tell, like, nah, this is he's not a flyby night guy.
SPEAKER_00:He's here for the culture. He's not don't have an impressive piece of Mac. But though those are the examples of people that's out there. If y'all listening, that's who you follow. Follow the Mac Millers of the world, please. That's who you want to be like. G-Eazy, man. Yeah. G G Easy.
SPEAKER_01:He disappeared.
SPEAKER_00:He disappeared, but even to this day, if you look at his music today, he's still the people in the Bay vouch for him. And in Cali, they don't just do that for anybody. Not anybody just gets a bay. Exactly. Not anybody just gets that stamp off.
SPEAKER_01:They are gatekeepers. Fuck you, bro. Right. So if they're gonna they're gonna co-sign somebody, they gotta be valid. They gotta be valid.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that's one of the biggest things too nowadays. Just let's let's take the time and let's vet some of these people out. Just because you got a hit don't mean you can come to the barbecue. Just because you got a little hit record. That's nice. You can't come into the cookout. Yeah, just because you've been doing a little dance cookout. I don't care. No, that don't mean nothing. You can't come to the cookout. You're not an advocate. We're not inviting you to the asala either, you know?
SPEAKER_01:No coronas for you. No, no. You ain't you you ain't drinking my coronas. Fuck out of here. Now Dio Hilberto needs that. That's how he's gonna wake up the next day. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, but now I'm with you. I'm with you. I just uh again, like, like I just feel like we need we need we need more unity in hip-hop than ever, I think. Um, I think we need we need more conversations in hip-hop than ever. You know, I think I think uh and being from we're both from New York, so we both understand just from the Latino and the and the black side how how how together we are here. And I think in in the rest of the country, we they they don't understand that. You know, I think because it's so sad, like I remember I used to live in in uh I lived in Denver, Colorado for for about a year and a half, right? And it's the first time in my life that I ever really saw segregation, like a real segregation, right? So shout out to my brother Looney. And Looney, I know you came to New York recently and I ain't tap in. Trust me, I love you, my brother. But Looney, he's from he's from uh uh Denver. And when I got there, he showed me so much love. He's black, and he showed me so much love, and he's and he's he's uh he's a somebody out there, whether in the streets or in the music. Right, right, right, he's a somebody. And I remember he was like, yo, come to the studio and let's make music together. He's a producer. So I was like, all right, bet, let's do it. And I went with with with another guy from New York that was Spanish too, that was Latino. We're from New York, we know no better. We get to the studio and it's in in a place called Aurora in Colorado. Aurora, Colorado. Yeah. So we go to the to the studio, and everybody's black in the studio, but I don't give a fuck. I'm that's one of the regular. It's regular to me. Right. We get we get into that studio, bro. The whole shit stopped. Mm-hmm. And looked at us. Like, what the hell are y'all doing here? And then they looked at Looney. Like, why you look at the room? And then Looney had to be like, yo, they're from New York. And he's as soon as ah, all right. Yeah, I'm like, I that was the first time that I'm like, hold on, son. So I asked Looney, I'm like, yo, son, like, what do you mean? Like, he was like, nah, because you know, Latinos and blacks don't mix out here. I'm like, what? He was like, the Latinos got their side, blacks got their side, and they do not intermingle. And to me, that was such a foreign concept, bro, because I was like, yo, what? Like, yo, Jamal lived right next door to me, though. I won't go hang out with you. Yeah, like I used to, I used to eat like jerk chicken at Jamal's house, and Jamal used to eat our episode in my crib. Like, what the fuck are we talking about? But is but back to what I'm saying is, like, I feel like being from where we're from in New York, we have an advantage of having the conversation of like, yo, it's not supposed to be.
SPEAKER_00:New York is truly a melting pot.
SPEAKER_01:It's no subscribers, it shouldn't be no division between us. Right. Because we're we're we're, first of all, they look at us as the same. Exactly. They they want to get rid of me as much as they want to get rid of you. You know what I'm saying? And if it was up to them, neither of us would be here. Neither of us would be here. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:We're all viewed the same. And we all know who the fuck them is. Exactly. It goes without saying. You know? It goes without saying.
SPEAKER_01:So, like, if just with that alone, there should be an understanding, like, hmm, maybe we shouldn't hate on each other. And I'm not just saying from one side on the other. Yeah. Because I'm sure there's many Latinos that are ignorant as fuck, that think in an ignorant way. Where I know black, I Dominican. Well, see? Yeah. See, like yeah, yeah. No, yeah. I understand. I know black, I'm not I I Dominican, yeah. But that's but that uh that's also from the motherland. Because any Dominican from New York is gonna be like, I'm black. Fuck is you talking about? You know what I'm saying? In Colombia, we have some of the most mixed blood in the world. Like, like in Colombia, we're African, we're Spaniard, we're Chinese, we're everything. You know what I'm saying? And if you ask a Colombian from Colombia, he's gonna be like, oh no, I'm Colombian. I feel like I'm American, I'm New York, I'm from New York, I'm New Yorkian. You know what I'm saying? But in my mind, I feel like I'm no different than than than than than my one of my black brothers. You know what I'm saying? Because, but again, going back to us having the advantage of being New Yorkers, that we can kind of spearhead that conversation of especially within hip-hop, that yo, we gotta stop this bullshit with with with with like the separation. Because I think especially within like there was a conversation where they were saying like hip-hop was started by blacks and it is a black culture, it was started by African Americans, right? But Latinos after its inception played a major role in it in the beginning, right? They didn't start it because it started by African Americans, but Latinos were there from the beginning too. So once that conversation started happening, I feel like there was like such a like a like a separation, bro.
SPEAKER_00:But again, I told you that go to me that goes right back to the gatekeeping thing again, and just we've gave up so much. It's like now y'all trying to take hip-hop from us. What are you trying to take? What are you trying to talk about? No, come on.
SPEAKER_01:Like, yo, bro, the start of hip hop is a start of hip hop, right? It started in the South Bronx, and it started in 19, I think 1974, 1970. 78. 78? 78, Cool Herc. Cool Herc. And the party. And G DJ Kohl Herc was a first-generation Jamaican American. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it started in the rec room. Yep. Having a party. And in and in uh in um Cedric and Cedar. Cedric Avenue. Cedric and Cedar. You know what I mean? And in that, when that started, African Bambada came, Grandmaster Flash came, and then all the uh um the the B-boys came and the Latino D boys, and Disco Whiz came, the first Latin DJ, and all of these individuals that came and and participated in the in the beginning of what hip hop is. And I ain't trying to get into a hip-hop history conversation. What I am saying is that we need to have a unity conversation versus having this fighting against each other conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Let hip hop be the be the uniting force, be the uniting driving force to come together. No, I I do not disagree with that at all.
SPEAKER_01:And I think I think this count that conversation has to be big Zoe.
SPEAKER_00:PCs, bro. Be good out here, man.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that conversation, we really, and and I think this needs to be clipped up, and we need to really like this has to go out because I feel like it's a conversation that we need to put the bullshit separation to bed and we need to bring unity back into the fold. Is you nice or not?
SPEAKER_00:That's it. If you nice, is you nice or not? That's it. If you nice, pull up. If you're not giving up it, stay home. There you go. That's how we separated.
SPEAKER_01:If you nice, pull up. If you're not getting it, exactly, bro.
SPEAKER_00:That's it.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just I it's just it just really strick strikes a nerve in my heart because I love hip-hop so fing much. Right.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Like I love, like, since I would since as I could remember, and I get emotional even talking about it, as much as I could remember from the from I was a child, bro. All I know is hip hop. All I know is this culture that I love so fing deeply, man. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? And for somebody to tell me that I'm not part of it because of the color of my fing skin, right?
SPEAKER_00:You don't know how much I fing love this shit, man. And that and that's the thing when you keep out the people who genuinely do love it and you're trying to keep them away, that's that's the problem. When people genuinely do it, it's all I fing know, bro. And who want to see it thrive and who want to see it through man?
SPEAKER_01:That's all I want, man. That's why when I was saying about how I want to see my the team that I love win chips, right? You know what I'm saying? And and being in in in the because I love hip hop so much that I want it on the charts. I want it, I want it to be number one every time.
SPEAKER_00:Because I love hip-hop so fucking much, bro. Well, you say you want it to be number one, we're gonna talk about our then and now segment. Let's go. So yeah. So in this segment, this is called this is 60 plus presents then and now, then and now, where we take an artist's first album and compare it to their most recent release. So we're gonna see if the artist has grown, have they stagnated? How did that first album age musically compared to now? What have they done with this with their most recent release? Whether good or bad, we'll review the album. So the first artist we're gonna get into is Wale. For Lauren. His first album was titled Attention Deficit, his most recent one, Everything Is a Lot. Which one would you like to start? You want to start with Everything Is a Lot first, and then we'll go back to a lot of it. Let's start with Everything Is a Lot. So let's start with Everything Is a Lot. Uh released on November 14th. November 14th. 19 songs, 19 tracks on there. Um, I'm gonna get your viewpoints first. What do you think about Everything Is a Lot? Where do you rank it for this year? Album of the Year.
SPEAKER_01:I don't give a fuck. Album of the Year, and I'll tell you why. To me, when I hear music, right, it hits me in a way where it's like, I'm gonna live with it or I'm not gonna live with it, right? And out of everything that has dropped this year, and I listen to everything that has dropped this year, this is the album that as soon as I heard it, I'm like, I'm living with this album every day. Right. From the I So I have a I have a four-listen system. So the first listen, I just listen to it just to kind of like a gate, a glazo go through it.
SPEAKER_00:Right, go through it.
SPEAKER_01:The second, I start listening to the production, song structure. Third listen, I'm listening to like the lyrics and what they're saying, and then the fourth listen, musicality and totality and how it really makes me feel, right? So from the second listen, I was already like, yeah, this is this is the greatest album that has came out this year. And I say that because the way that Wale puts together music and how he arranges music and how he predicts his production and what he did with this album, where he like, you know, started harmonizing on his own uh uh hooks and and more so singing, and you know, uh uh it was just like to me, it felt just from everything that came out this year, and I hate to say it like this, it's like a breath of fresh air. Like I feel like everything this year was like trying to be so damn nostalgic that Wallet I said it in a video is a perfect example of someone who is lyrically elite but also understands how to make all of the raptors. And I think this year especially, with with an exception of maybe the clips album, people got so caught up in just being like, oh, I wanna rap, I wanna be the best rapper, and in and in that nostalgia bubble that we lost musicianship this year. And I think Wale brought that back with this album from like just the the was that survival? Survivor talking about you know having survivors and remorse and the hook is so like Ty Dallas did his thing on yeah well anything that Ty does hookwise hookwise he don't miss yeah he's he don't miss yeah fucking incredible um just you know um Blanco Blanco is such an incredible record. Uh power, what's that power and uh power and problems? Power and problems, amazing record. Bro, that hit me in in a very personal way because he's talking about how like solitude is his is is his love language, and like you know, his problem is he don't he don't need no one, but that's also the power too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that I don't need no.
SPEAKER_01:So, like, yeah, so like to me that hit me because that's kind of where I am in life. Um, that that intro. Yeah, conundrum conundrum is fire, bro. Conundrum is fire belly, belly to me, rap song of the year, rap single of the year. Because you know, you got singles, and belly is kind of like the single.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, technically, not a technical single. The single is City on Fire. It was the first the first single was Blanco, which is a terrible choice for a single, but that was the first one.
SPEAKER_01:I like Blanco because he's talking about how you know about his addiction to it's better in the flow of the album.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. That liter that literally was the first record that they put out. Sworn bottle is such a great one. Spown bottle is dope. The second single was Where to Start. Where to start to me is an amazing record, and that should have been the first single to me where to start. I think Belly is just the a standard. Yeah, Belly's is a great record, it's a great record. I think it will get a video, maybe, but I think one of the Nigerian records probably will probably Big Head. Those yo, Big Head is fire too. Yeah, probably Big Head. Big Head is so fire.
SPEAKER_01:Big Head is it's like, oh, you know what I mean? It gives you that party vibe, you know. It's it just all around, man. He touches so many different genres of music, he's rapping at an elite level throughout the entire album. Um Now, technically, from a musician standpoint, I like the tonality in his voice. It almost sounds tired. Like he's over it. Well, it fits the tone of the album. Like how yes. Like when he's rapping, it almost sounds like he's just tired.
SPEAKER_00:But it works. It's supposed to. I I think I think it's supposed to. It fits what the album is.
SPEAKER_01:Everything is a lot. He's like overwhelmed. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? And I think he by design, that's he sounds that way. So a one out of ten, what would you give it? Ten being a classic. Yeah. One being obviously trash. Trash. I want to start. If we're gonna do this and we're gonna do these ratings, I wanna be very, very serious about these ratings.
SPEAKER_00:Or is the five mics easier? Is five mics easier? No, not like one through ten.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So you give really I would give this a 8.125.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not mad at that. Not mad at that. So eight point one. Okay. So for me, Wale is a top five rapper for me all time. I have uh I have my top ten. I have a per I have two top five lists. I have a non-biased list and a biased list. Okay. He in my bias list, he is in my top five. If I'll be non-biased, you know, you got J, you got M. You got the generics. Right, right. Okay. You can't argue. You can't argue though. Right. So that's why I said that's the non-biased. I like that. I like that. But me. I'm gonna make a list like that. My non-bias and my bias. We should do that. Yeah, non-bias and but bias, Wale is in my top five. Just me personally. So when I heard this album, especially hearing the singles first from Blanco, The Where to Start, The City on Fire. Those are your three singles. And I'm like, all right, Wale kills the RB record. That's his thing. That's his bag. Him with an RB artist, you are going to get a fire record. Going back to Jeremiah, going back to Usher, Tiara Thomas. It don't matter who you get, Rihanna, Miguel. You're going to get a good record out of it somehow, somehow.
SPEAKER_01:Agreed.
SPEAKER_00:So when I seen the track list features, I'm like, okay, yeah, these are all smashes. I'm not worried about that. That Leon Thomas record has to be the next single. It has to be. The run that Leon Thomas is on is out of his mind. What he did with that track, yeah, took it to another level. But then while I mean that, but the his voice is fucking. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. That Dev Jam, please make that the next single. You already messed up making Blanco the lead single. And I think that I love Blanco. But I get what you're saying. It's better within the in the flow of the album. Right. Like, think if if Blanco started that album off, you would be like, all right, this is cool, but I like the conundrum started the album. No, no, no. I'm just saying, as that being the first song you heard from the album, you would be like, all right, this is a cool album.
SPEAKER_01:But it's oh, uh, oh, while he's doing the sing songy shit. Right. I get what you mean.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's a cool record, but it ain't. It ain't that. Okay, I get what you mean. So Watching Us has to be the next single. There was a few features I wish was on this album that probably wasn't. So I wanted to hear um Rick Ross on the what's it? Uh Mark. Michael Fredo. Yeah. See, I that sounded like a Rick Ross record. And I think Ross was the like generic answer because it did sound like an MMG sound. It sounded like a God forgives I don't type of record. I wanted Big Crit or Big X the Plug on that record. Ooh, I like that. I think Big X the plug would have sounded crazy. I think Big X the plug would have caught that flow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that would have been crazy. Because I'm because when I hear that the beat and I hear that how Wale is flowing on it, it automatically I'm like, that's Ross adjacent.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that's the natural, because they were so they was next to each other. So to me, that fits with tomorrow today, especially because fire records is so fire, bro. Because he just did the drop of his Nike boots in DC and he had fucking time. And they gave him the trash boots. Anyway, that's a whole nother discussion. I don't have time for it. But anyway. That's how I first learned the Wale because of ACG. That's right, Nike boots. Anyway. Anyway. When it came to that song, especially because they put Shino in the commercial for the debut of the boots, I'm like, okay, Shmino gotta be on this album. And tomorrow today is the record for Shemino. Okay. Okay, I would say I would like to hear Shemino even do a freestyle over that beat. Okay. Because when Shemino gets in his sing song y bag and he starts rapping and going, I think them two would have done something really, really great on that one. I think I think Wale was keeping the the features at a minimum in this. They're all singing features. Yeah, they're all singing features. And he was even singing on his own hooks. Exactly. He got even he had Phil A. Day on the album, and Ade is doing background vocals on his album. And A Day writes for everybody.
SPEAKER_01:And I think I think that's a good thing right now. Like a lot of these artists are like not trying to do too many features, they're not trying to put too many features on their albums. Yeah, pay the money for it. So one guy that's yeah, and the budgets aren't there. Exactly. The budgets are going back to the Dev Jam again. Budgets are not there right now to pay for features. Exactly. Um, but I I feel like overall, execution of the album was great. Um, I think I think the sequencing was good, really, really good. I think starting in the all the album out with conundrum was great. Um I think overall, like this the song, um, like what he was talking about was very female oriented. Yeah. But I think that's where he is in life. It's what he's been through.
SPEAKER_00:I think on watching us, he talks about it. Like, hey, I wanted to go public with you, but he's talking about. Do you know who he's talking about?
SPEAKER_01:But it's it's somebody that's also famous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because he says you're famous and I'm famous, so what? I have an idea. I think it's another singer. I have I think I don't know who it is, but I think it's another singer. Because it's somebody that's famous. He says that's it. Yeah, it's it's it's another singer. I just can't remember who it was. He talked about it with Joe when he was on Joe Budden joint. They like briefly, like Joe kind of mentioned it and he was Wale was like, hey man, move on. Don't it was it was one of them kind of.
SPEAKER_01:He don't want to talk about it. I get it. But it's very female oriented, but that's Wale's bag.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:If you know Wale, he that's where he shines. Um I do appreciate Blanco uh, you know, talking about alcoholism and you know, and and just the you know, the name of the thing. Being depressed from that, yeah. Being depressed from that. Um, I just feel like this album just being and I'm not so because we're gonna get to his his first album, but I just think this album being where it's at within all the albums that came out this year is just musically to me the best album.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think it is definitely the best produced album this year. It's Sonic.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you know, and you say that produced album, I think it's as well produced as the Killer Mike album that Yeah, that won a Grammy for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so he won a Grammy for. I I don't I don't I don't disagree with that.
SPEAKER_01:It's like you could tell if you you hear both albums, you can tell that they put effort into making the music.
SPEAKER_00:Even even the songs that that he picked, to flip Maxwell's pretty wings, like that's not even coming up on most people's radar or flipping the the um the SWV so I'm so into you to flip that for where to start is is super fire. The only records on this album that I'm like I I don't need is the Shaboozi joint. Yo, we had a conversation about the same and I like the record and you don't like it. I like it. It's nice to have the name Shaboozi on the album. I don't give a fuck about Shabozy. I just think I think the record itself, like I didn't need it, I didn't need it, especially compared to what the rest of the album sounded like. That one country sounding song. It was like that's what back to what we were talking about how like country. Right. It's hip hop now for the most part. But that we only need that country record, and while then you ain't need that one. But the other one was um the first um Nigerian record, Stay Fly or whatever stay. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. That one I didn't need, like compared to Big Head and stuff like that. Big Head with Yeah, Big Head is definitely the standout Nigerian. That and and Miranda Benz. Mirror and a bends. I did not like that song. See, that song to me is classic Wale, throwback wallet. That is a mixtape wallet record. I did not like that song. I think that's like out of all other songs, that was my only skip. So that was your skip. For me, that's one of my favorite, right? He gets in his introspective bag so much on that side.
SPEAKER_01:I I like I like uh what like the topic of the record. I get it, you know, the mirror and the bands and all that. I just I don't know, sonically to me, it didn't, it didn't do it for me. Sonically, just sonically. And I'm very big on sonics, you know what I'm saying? So, like sonically to me, it was just like uh I like especially coming from like belly and like right, you know what I mean? Like right.
SPEAKER_00:I I like this album. I give it probably about a seven and a half or eight around around there. We're in the same ballpark. Yeah, yeah. We're in the same ballpark. I just can't call an album album of the year in a week. I don't think that's enough time. I mean, I get I get that. I get that. I'm not I'm not I'm not mad at anybody that just that calls me crazy for saying that. We haven't lived with it yet. I've lived with it, though. That's no no no no no. I've been playing that album since Friday. That's cool. And where was today's Sunday? That's not enough time. I don't care how many times you played it. You gotta have I'm talking about repeat. I'm with you. That's not enough time. When you gotta have some time go by where you leave the album alone and you come back to it and be like, all right, you know what? Let your ears actually. I get you.
SPEAKER_01:That that's I just feel like because I've listened to everything that's come out this year, nothing has made me feel like that album.
SPEAKER_00:For me, come when when hearing it for the first time, I felt like that for Chance's album, clips, and Mick Jenkins. Those are the three that I got the same feeling. Chance's album, I'll give you. Chance's album was super deep, and I you have no choice but to go back to listen to Chance's album because there's so much stuff.
SPEAKER_01:But again, feeling-wise, yeah, just overall, like I could, I could, I could, I could take a shower to this album, I could clean the crib to this album, I could study to this album. That's what I feel like with this body of work.
SPEAKER_00:Everything is a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Everything is a lot.
SPEAKER_00:We will see how it continues to age.
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully, I I want this to hit the billboard charts. I want this, I want yo, bro. You're watching us as a damn single, you will get it on the billboard charts.
SPEAKER_00:Please.
SPEAKER_01:I want I I want this album, I want this album, and and I I hate to say it like I'm banking on this, but like I'm I I'm this album, because it's so musically incredible, and I feel like it touches, it checks so many boxes musically, like commercially, introspectively, production-wise, that I feel like if this doesn't chart or it doesn't get the recognition it deserves, I feel like we're in real trouble.
SPEAKER_00:If it wasn't Wale, I would agree with you. Okay, I'll give you that. I'll give you that because it's Wale. If J. Cole put this album out like this, and it ain't do nothing, I would be worried. Because it's Wale, you know what it is?
SPEAKER_01:I'm in my mind, I'm still thinking like Wale is one of the big three, because at one point he was. Right. And and it's been it's been what 15 years? Yeah, and this is his first project in four years.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So I is his is one of those where if it doesn't chart, I'm not a hundred percent upset. So it's so good it should. But you know how many of his albums before that? Yeah, where you could be like, hey, this should have been here, this could have been there, the album itself is good.
SPEAKER_01:That's a whole nother conversation of why Wale ain't where Wale's supposed to be, and then his own detriment and his his attitude.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of stuff that goes into it. A lot of stuff. So we go up, we go and he is his own worst enemy. Enemy sometimes, yeah, and that goes back to his first album, Attention Deficit, dropped in 2009. I haven't heard that album in years, and we just went back to it. We went back and listened to it. Going back, that Lee's single was Chilling with Lady Gaga. Hate that fucking song, bro. He's on that song is so trash. Well, he he's on Innerscope at the time, which is how you get that connection.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think I can't stand that record, bro. I heard it today. That song didn't age well. Oh man, it's like already spoiled milk. When it when it came out, it was a dope record, but it didn't age well. And when you look back on it, MIA should have been on that record, not Lady Gaga. Okay. MIA or the MIA sound like on that record. Looking at keep the hook exactly the same, but MIA looking at looking at the rich voice on it.
SPEAKER_01:I think I think it ages completely different. Uh-huh. Yeah, no, but they because it's it's just like the the MIA record. Right. Uh but then after that. Okay. It's similar sounding.
SPEAKER_00:Similar bop. But then after that record, you get Pretty Girls. That's your second single with Gucci. That caught a low fire. Pretty girls is a dope record. That's a good record. Yeah, it's a dope record.
SPEAKER_01:Again, once Gucci comes on, I kind of check out. You know what I'm saying? Gucci Man has never been my take my cup of tea and shit like that. I'm right. He's a legend and he's all right, and he's done incredible things for down south hip hop and hip-hop in general. So I'm not I'm not shitting on Gucci. Just personally, my taste and music. As soon as he comes on the record, any record. I think the only song that I ever liked is when he was in Steady Mobbing that he killed, he went crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Lemons, too. Lemons was fire.
SPEAKER_01:Lemons, but okay.
SPEAKER_00:But what I'm saying is usually when I hear a Gucci man, it seems like I'm not good. I'm good. But at that time in 09, Gucci is a big name to have. On fire. And that's one thing with Wale, he's always kept a good feature, a big uh, not even a big name, but just a really good solid feature on his album. Even when you go back to that first album at the time, Kanon. People forget about K9, the Somali dude. He was very popular worldwide, rap-wise. So when you get a song like TV and a radio and they going back and forth and they really still fire.
SPEAKER_01:I love I have I have my standouts here, and I think TV and the let me see if TV and the radio is on that.
SPEAKER_00:TV and the radio. It's not on here, but I know that record radio is fire. Beautiful bliss with J. Cole. That's one of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:You I have a beautiful, beautiful, bro.
SPEAKER_00:That covers. Oh, that's one of his best verses ever. Personal.
SPEAKER_01:Son, he said, what he said. He said, I'm sitting with Hove, and I hope that he passed the baton like he passed the patron. But he only, but he only passed the patron.
SPEAKER_00:But he only passed the killed killed that.
SPEAKER_01:Bro, and and I mean, let's J. Cole, even though you know we said what we said on episode one, he could wrap his ass off and he's he's he bets a thousand when it comes to features.
SPEAKER_00:Features rarely misses on his track.
SPEAKER_01:He bets a thousand when it comes to features.
SPEAKER_00:And and Wale on that track, I find it funny a little bit because J.
SPEAKER_01:Cole fucked him up on that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, no, no. He definitely gets them. That that's uh the third verse. You're hard pressed to ever find a feature that J. Cole doesn't get somebody. The the third verse from Wale was cool where he did the whole capital raise the money, all that. That was cool. But I found funny at the end of that record, he's trying to sing with Melanie Fiona. And at the end of that record, he's like, fuck it, I can't sing, man. Just let it go. But you fast forward to now. Exactly. And his whole album is almost him singing. It's him singing. So to hear that from back in 09 to where he is now, I think is super dope. I like that. And then one of the other things that I thought was really fire from attention deficit is back in 09, he had the African songs on there. My sweetie is a Nigerian. He's always done that, and I really appreciate that. Him sticking to his roots. I appreciate that. So when you have people like, oh nah, he just kind of do it with a wave.
SPEAKER_01:He always shows the go-go, the go-go influence as well, like from DC and stuff, like the DMV sound. And you gotta appreciate that for somebody that's from there and you know stays true to his roots.
SPEAKER_00:He does it every album. Every album, every album. Every album. And even on attention deficit, I think this might be the first one that everything isn't a lot. On attention deficit, a song like Shades, where he's talking about different, about colorism in the colorism. That's one of my that's one of my favorite songs. Shades. Yep, I have Shades. With Chrisette Michelle. I love that song. Amazing. Deep introspective.
SPEAKER_01:And actually one of the other deep introspective 90210. 90210. Talking about how like Beverly Hills and like and like just just how women go through like bulimia and and and just that pressure of of being beautiful and what that has, you know, and or songs like uh prescription. Prescription. In nine in 2009, where the opium that uh epidemic was uh the opiate epidemic wasn't even as like how it is like it is now with the fentanyl.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like nowadays, that was Molly era. Oh nine was Molly era. That's what people got in Molly. The effect that prescription drugs was having in the community back then shows foresight.
SPEAKER_00:And that to end your album. Facts. That ended that album. That's the crazy part. So it's one of those where Wale, you've seen throughout the years, he's staying true to being introspective, talking about things like that.
SPEAKER_01:I think Wale, and I've said this many times in in conversations. Wale is in hip hop, is one of our greatest artists. Severely underappreciated, yes.
SPEAKER_00:For what he has done. This is 15 years of a run.
SPEAKER_01:2009 to 2025.
SPEAKER_00:And that's not counting the mixtapes. Has he won a Grammy? No. Oh, I say yeah, yeah, yeah. For uh Lotus Flower Bomb. I want to say best rap uh performance, like our rap sing song. Hold on, let me see. I'm I'm pretty sure though. Ambition should have won a fucking Grammy. Wallet. What ye what year did Ambition come out? 2011. 2012? Okay, no, probably not. Because that is what what albums? I gotta look into it. 2012 is like G Kid Mad C. He was not he was nominated 2013 for best rap song for a lot of slow bomb. That's it. Only one nominee. And see, the this goes back to Def Jam again with everything is a lot. This album isn't considered for the upcoming Grammys. It's for the next one. The next one. That album will be out of sight and out of mind by the time that next Grammy selection process rolls around. So this is another album from Wale that's gonna go.
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully they they keep pushing singles and keep keep bringing because there's I think every song on that album could be a single, obviously. Easily. I think they can they can push almost any record on that on that album, it could be a single.
SPEAKER_00:Now, my question to you has Wale grown or has he stayed stagnant? He has 100% grown, in my opinion. When you go to the singing aspect, the fact that the being introspective has grown so much for him. Because when you do listen to an attention deficit, maybe two, three songs where he's talking about himself. He's talking about broader, broader topics instead of like shades is about everybody, it's broader, everything is a lot. This is him, this is him.
SPEAKER_01:It's everything within him. And even in the like I said, the tonality of his voice, it sounds like he's tired.
SPEAKER_00:And that's another thing that he improved on conveying emotion, like you said, just through the tone of your voice. That that goes a long way.
SPEAKER_01:And I think because in in 88 uh in attention deficit, he's you could tell like he has that youthful energy and he's more shouting in the way that he raps. And it's him. And in this one, he's just more on like talking and just like more reserved, but it it's it it works.
SPEAKER_00:And in 09, I think it's him trying to show, hey, I am good, I'm great.
SPEAKER_01:Like I was talking about tonality-wise, he sounded like lupe to me a lot. You know what I mean? Like he gave me lupe vibes, you know, and you could tell just again the youthfulness in his voice during that time, but in just everything is a lot, like just the maturity, exactly everything from the from the production, everything, introspection, just being just just being so honest in what he's saying. Um, is I think yeah, I I agree with you. I think I think he's grown so much.
SPEAKER_00:So, and I hope that, and I've started to see it online already, where people are like, wow, this album is great. I have to keep I'm keep playing it, like you. So I'm gonna keep running this back, I'm running it back. I'm not, I'm not gonna stop running this back. And it's dope that he's finally seeing the love and recognition that he deserves, that he's always deserved, and that he's always yearned for. He's always yearned to be accepted and to be loved by hip hop. He's been so misunderstood his whole career. Exactly. And it and it shows in the song, like Survive. When you hear, he's like, Hey, I covered my face on my third um uh my last album on the Falaran joint. He's like, Because I was crying, I was going through shit. I was I was hurt out here, and I think he is a misunderstood person, but one of those where you can't deny how good he is lyrically, how good he can make a song, and how good he does promote himself. Wale week in DC this week was awesome. He was a principal at a school, held the free concert, gave out shoes. So it's like, what more can the thing he do? You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he's very misunderstood. Maybe a lot of that could be self-inflicted because you know it, you know, again, we're artists, and I'm a I'm a very arty artist, so I understand like we can be very eccentric and and and and in our feelings, right? You know what I'm saying? Because our art comes from emotion, so I get that, but at the same time, just the bodies of work that he's provided us, you know, 17 projects total. And all of 17. I don't think he's dropped a dud dud ever, musically.
SPEAKER_00:The only two that I can say I'm not the biggest fan. He's gonna DM you if you say something. Oh no, it's cool, it's cool. Listen, listen. It's all love. Wally, you know it's all it's all love on this or that. We big you, we done bigged you up the whole episode. We got you with something a little bit of hate. I I'm not the biggest fan of Summers on Sunset or the free lunch mix. Those are the two for me, but if you 15 out of 17, you still, you still, yeah, that's a good batting average.
SPEAKER_01:And you got you got you got a classic with ambition.
SPEAKER_00:Ambition to me is a classic. I think album about nothingness too. I think he has I think he didn't.
SPEAKER_01:Album about nothingness. Bro, to have Jerry Seinfeld on your album. On the entire album. I've always, and maybe I can speak this into existence from the album about nothing, how like uh um while they had Jerry Seinfeld narrating his album, I always thought, like, damn, I I would want to do an album like that with I don't know if you know who John Lugozamo is. Yeah. John Luguzzamo's from Jackson Heights Queens. I'm from Jackson Heights, Queens. So I always like, damn, I would love to get an album in the same of like album about nothing and uh John Lugozzamo, me doing an album about Jackson Heights Queens and have John Lugozamo narrate.
SPEAKER_00:And see, and while they did that organically, the mixtape about nothing is based on the Seinfeld show of him just doing clips from the show and comparing it with the songs and stuff like that. It's a natural thing. That's just him organically, and eventually it led to Seinfeld being on your entire album, giving monologues the whole way. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, Johnny Legs, holla at me, man.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let's do it. Let's make it happen. Peace, peace. Be good. But no, no, definitely. Um, yeah. Um, but if if you guys are watching this, go go go listen to Wale's entire discography. It's incredible. It would be a treat. If you've never heard a Wale album, I don't know why you're even fucking in hip hop or listen.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you see, you know, this this might be their introduction. Okay. So you know what? We're gonna be nice. If this is your introduction, just listen to the LPs. You don't even got to do mixtapes. No mixtapes. Just go start from attention deficit and work your way up.
SPEAKER_01:I'm telling you, you will you will be it's it's an incredible body of work. Shout out to Wale. Thank you for the body of work that you've given us up till now. Yes, and I'm looking forward to seeing what this album does and what your future projects are. I am a great supporter of you. I think you're one of the greatest artists that we've had in hip hop. And thank you for the great music that you've given us so far, bro.
SPEAKER_00:I concur with every single thing he just said. Hopefully, you can see this while later show that hey, people really rock with you. We enjoy your music, we enjoy what you do sneaker-wise, we enjoy it. We need it. Please keep going. And if this is the last project, thank you. You gave us 15 years of amazing music that you didn't have to do. So just thank you. Thank you for being a dope artist. If you do continue to make music, please continue to grow. Keep wrapping circles around these guys, please. Because we need it in the case. Because you wrap circles around these guys, bro. Wrap circles, literally. So we need this, but again, thank you, Wale. We appreciate you. And this is the 60 Plus Podcast. Present then and now it's