6: Rolling with the Punches with SmartPay NI's Marc McLaughlin

In this episode, we sit down with Marc McLaughlin, Sales Director at Smart Pay NI, a local payment services provider punching well above its weight against global giants.

Marc takes us behind the scenes of a business that started with two people in a small room in 2017 and has grown into a team of 20, with customers across Ireland, England, and beyond. He shares the raw truth about the first four years of grinding before things really took off post-COVID, why door-to-door sales never goes out of style, and how a boxing background taught him everything he needs to know about resilience in business.

We also get into:

- Why Smart Pay answers the phone on Christmas Day and why that matters
The power of local trust in a contactless world
- How social media transformed their business (and why video beats photos every time)
- The state of business in Northern Ireland right now 
- Their upcoming charity golf day for Foyle Hospice featuring some special guests

If you're a business owner, in sales, or just love a good underdog story, this one's for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

So Mark, welcome. Thanks for joining us. How are we? Well, what about yourself? The best. Good, good. So we're obviously here to talk about SmartPay and uh all your roles there as sales director. Yes. Um bit of a strange industry. Not a common one for not in this not in this part of the line, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

We're the only uh local payment provider in in Northern Ireland.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

And you're competing against pretty large players in the market. Big players. Yeah. Uh so take us back to the start. How did it come about that you decided let's take on um some global players?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Well, it started it it actually started a wee bit by chance. Me myself and my uncle have always kinda been the yellow in some form or fashion, whether it be through boxing, um work related, working in the same areas. Um I actually moved to Belfast, he was in telecoms at the time. Um when I moved to Belfast, they they start work whether whether I've been in a bar or whatever the case may be. Um but I actually fell on the uh a call centre, uh creation finance, right? Ringing around as a a debt collector, uh nearly uh taking abuse on the phones for for uh a number of years. Um and then we came up with the idea of uh we actually had a company called Tailored Appointments. Okay. So we used to book appointments for telecoms companies, web designers, solar, anything with with sales guys. Um and we we had maybe five or six staff at one point doing a lot of campaigns for Virgin Rebel systems, all kind of big big operations, um, but it kind of getting paid from certain industries and you know sales guys saying disappointment wasn't set or whatever the case may be. Uh and then John at the time was was working with Bank Ireland doing merchant services. So I think you kind of seen a niche in the in the market, and we started from there, really.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Um So Smart Pay is actually the in the second iteration. It's not it's not it wasn't there was there was a business before.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

There was a business before Taylor appointments. Um we had that for maybe three three years. Okay. Um, a lot of phone calls, two, three hundred phone calls a day. At nine in the morning, you were booking an appointment for a web designer, at half eleven you were booking an appointment for a solar, yeah. So you were a bit of a jack of all trades in that sense. Um but that's that's how we started. Good experience for what you for what it then went on to be. Good experience for for where you are, and it teaches you a lot as well. You know, rejection is a big thing in our in our industry, you know, it's it's a numbers game, so you have to be used to getting the no's and the knockbacks, and and that gets you where they to where you are.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Like that aspect of it, you know. We're the toughest job in the world. I could because you know, there's a lot of people think you know sales is is uh glamorous, glamorous and tough job.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

It's a lot of miles, a lot of knocking on doors, a lot of no's. Don't get me wrong, I love door-to-door, you know, speaking to business owners, and every door's different. You're gonna get somebody that's in a good mood, you're gonna get somebody that's in a bad mood. You just have to tick the the roughly smooth, and every every door is different.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

But and it's the thing that that drives the business. So if the sales side's working, you know, generally the rest of the business you can sort out afterwards. Whereas if you don't get the sales side, it's dark. You'll not land.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

You're not lands. When the sales are coming on, everybody's everybody's happy, it's it's good. But when there's a dip, and there always is a dip, you know, you're witting on maybe you're working on 30 or 40 deals within a month, and you know, you could have 10 or 11 am waiting on decisions and one thing or another, it just kind of slows up your week. But then you come on the Monday and you could have five or six deals on the board, it's a it's a it's an emotional roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

How do you how do you actually keep your motivation up for that? Because especially if you're going through a bad spell, let's say, you know, is it tough like it is tough.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I think from from my kind of sporting background, boxing teaches you a lot, not only how to defend yourself, but it teaches you a lot about life um and getting knocked down and getting back up. Um and it takes a certain individual, they they sell and they keep selling, and you know, just every morning you have to say to yourself, right, let's fresh, fresh start, let's go. Today today's a new day, yesterday's the past, let's let's go again.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

I suppose the measure of a good salesperson is is not the times when everything's going well and it's flowing, it's actually the but it's the down. It's when you're down.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

It's when you're walking walking a a street in Balahi and the rain's pouring down, and you've got your umbrella up, and people are telling you to go away. You're the fifth sales guy today, you just have to keep going and going and going. That's the that's the only way. And as you say, it turns around, it's a numbers game, and it eventually does also help when you're local um and you've got a good product and a good service. It it does help you in uh in a way, um, because people like dealing with local people.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Um, and that's what we thrive on. We thrive in local businesses, local charities. We give back to local charities, we give back to local businesses. Businesses in the in the area will give back to us as well by giving us their their business and trusting us with our payments. Yeah. So the the local aspect of it is it it it helps in a way.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

And we'll come on a bit more to the to the products and and service side, but uh there's something that we actually discussed before, and and like that is definitely ingrained within Smart Pay, is that listen, there's people who ring you all the time. Christmas Day, Christmas, New Year's Eve, doesn't matter. Yeah. We answer a phone. And it is like one of the things that you'd said before is like like that's the that's just differentiated.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That's your shell on point. Like we we have we have businesses that we've worked with now for eight and a half years. That's unheard of on merchant services and payments. People switch and swap, and we we've actually become friends with these people, more so than a than a business relationship, um, which is which is down to uh the service that we provide. Yeah. They trust us with their because at the end of the day, everything now is contactless.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

There's very little cash, uh people are paying with their watch, they're paying with their phone, and if your terminals go down in a busy restaurant or a busy bar or busy shop, who do you who do you call?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

And you don't want to be calling somebody and saying, Oh, we'll get back to you.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

You don't want to be ringing through and in a call centre being on hold. And yeah, you know, if there's a staff member on which is a good example as well, the staff member can't ring through to these call centres because they're going to be asking for their dates of birth and short code and account number, which staff won't have, but they've got a direct line on the U.S. We know them, we go out, we fix the issue, and it works well for us.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Is it hard to teach that and install that onto the kind of rest of the company? Because obviously there's there's not just G anymore. There's not.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Um we have a great team. Uh we really do. And they they go above and beyond for for every customer, no matter if it's a coffee shop or a hotel or a multi-million pound business that's doing 50 million a year in card, everybody's treated the same. We look after everybody in the same in the same way. All the all the customers have a uh a dedicated account manager um on hand from 95 Monday to Friday, and then they've got the line through the the 24 hour support, which is their selves. So they're they're always looked at.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Take us back to the early days, so obviously it started just with yourself and John, was it?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Myself and John um and uh in a wee room in Clarnton Street, and John's wife as well, okay, would have done the applications for us. Um I didn't have a driving licence at the time, which was a bit of a a pain. So if John was maybe going to Belfast or whatever the case may be, yeah, I would be thrown out of the car, cookstown, and picked up on the way back home, and you were door-to-door, and it was just sticking anything starting out, you just have to, you know, you were getting maybe five, six customers a month, and then slowly but surely you were getting the right customers in the right areas and using them as a as a reference point. Yeah. Um and then it just started to gradually pick up a wee bit of momentum, but it wasn't, it wasn't, it was two or three years before anything. Was it that long? Or did to pick up like it was a hard sort of thing. We started in 2017, um, and we really didn't tick off the movie post-COVID. So you're talking four years.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

But and this is the thing, you know, people say about you know, owning their own business or or working on their own business, and I don't know if they they necessarily always appreciate that you know people go, oh look, look at the success, and you know, look how good SmartPay's doing. But there is a hard log at the start.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Five years, look, it's it's it's hard now. Do you know what I mean? There's that many, there's that many competitors out there, and you're not dealing with you're dealing with big competitors like these are multinational companies. These guys have offices in San Francisco, London, where wherever there's thousands that work for them. We have a good team, we have a team of around 20 um between on the road and and on the office, and and we we're we're we're punching punching well.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Do you like the underdog? Love it. But it died. Love it. Is that from the boxing? There's always the underdog. But and you can you can kind of you know move a bit better than they can.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Well, you've got you know, again, it's the local side of things. Now, don't get me wrong, we we don't just have customers in Northern Ireland, we've got customers uh in Southern Ireland, we've got customers in England, the Alexa Birmingham, Brighton, Manchester, Liverpool, we've got big bars and restaurants, so we are branching out in a way. We we now just um we've taken on a sales uh exec in in Liverpool and we've just taken on one in London uh and we're speaking to one in Scotland at the moment. So we're we are branching out in a way. Um but again it's every day's just a a battle. It's it's sales, it's every day's you just don't know who's who's out the who's out to get you or do you know what I mean? So you just have to keep your keep rolling with punches, as you say.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

What was it what was the point where so you're saying about you know it may it basically took four years, was there a point where you were like, geez not you know what this is a real business now?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Like this is post post sorry, uh post-COVID or in the middle of COVID, really everybody went on the like a kind of panic um of because there was a lot of people that didn't take card before COVID. Okay, um a lot of people, um, but that kind of increased the the drive for people to take those contactless payments due to you know you know not being able to handle cash or whatever, whatever the case may be, and it became more convenient for people as well, with places being closed and you know, people only being able to order over the phone or whatever the case may be. So we did see an increase there, and then we moved offices to the the Strand Road and we had two or three extra in the office, and then as the sales coming in again, as you say, if the sales are coming in, it's all part of the growth, yeah. And being able to invest in and more staff and you know, invest in car for uh a sales rep or vans or whatever the case may be, it just gradually grew. Then we meant the um our tolerary street. We had a an office in our tolerary street which was a wee bit bigger, we had about seven, um, and then again the sales kept increasing because the brand kept getting better. Uh and then we now are in the Glend Hermit Road where we have our own office, um, we've got our own boardroom, we've got our own sales room, we've got our own kitchen, which we we we never had. Um small things, um so it just gradually again you just keep you just keep plucking away and every day you just keep firing away in, getting the sales on, and then everything else looks looks after itself.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

And see on the marketing side, right? So obviously like you're saying the performance seal.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

I know I I I do like it. I do like it. I d I never thought that it would be one that would get in front of a camera and promote uh promote business, but Hayley who looks after our our social media has been a dream to work with every day. She comes on maybe once a week for maybe an hour or two hours, and that's the best part of my week. Phones away and she's saying do this, do that, so it's no works well.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

And it does work are there did it take a while to figure that out or it did it to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

We uh for for years it was maybe we were using a lot of photos, um, you know, photos of customers, photos of new businesses, and then maybe photos of customer service and and things like that. But we did when we sat down with Hailey at the very beginning, we completely moved away from that. It's all video. Yeah, people scroll past a photo, and I think you see that in all our businesses now. Everything's video, um, because it's you interact with it more. What's what's he talking about, or why is he shouting like a m- or why is he dressed up as a Grinch? What's what's happening here? Do you know what I mean? Um so it works well that way, I think.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

How important do you think it is on the social media side of businesses?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Very important. Even uh we were we were chatting before we started about restaurants, you know. If if we're going away anywhere, we're going a night away, or you just go straight on the TikTok or Instagram restaurants in Belfast, and more than likely you'll pick the one that's that's most viewed or looks aesthetically pleasing. You know, that kind of way um very rarely would you Google anything as used to anymore or look through your reviews or it's all it's all digital like and it's funny like how much it drives things.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Like I would be the same as you. Like, I I hadn't ever thought that social media would be a part of what we do. And uh you know, we we have a similar industry and that people kind of wonder what what what is it you do? And you know, it's that sounds really boring. Um whereas you know the social media side of it really does drive it, but um, you know, you have to it's it's uh it's a constant machine that needs fixing.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

It is, and you have to keep coming up with ideas and and things, and and most of our most of our ideas are on spot. We don't sit and you know go, right? Well, we need to do something about this or we need to do something about that. We'll we'll be just doing a video and then we'll go no this'll work and we'll run into the the office and grab a glass of water and throw it over me or get a lemon, or there's there's lots of videos on the TikTok that you'd probably look and go, How have I come up with that idea? But it's it's mostly on the day. There are any that didn't make it? A few because John wouldn't allow them.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

But um it's early days, you never know. Still still room. You never know. Um see if you're starting again tomorrow, right? So the same product and no customers. Is there anything that you would do differently in the first year on the business development side? Wouldn't change any of it? No. Like you need to go through that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

You have there there's no other I personally I I don't think like if you're starting a especially in our industry, and that I I don't know what it would be like in any other industry, but it's the hard yards, the the knocking on the doors, the getting in front of people, who you are, what you do, what you can offer, who you look after. I'm still out knocking doors. And I and I love it. And it'll never it'll probably never change. Um like we would bring on, we've brought on three or four new members of staff in the last maybe four or five months, and I've about Emmons maybe once a week. You know, knocking doors, shadowing, and and it's it's the only way they they do it. Look, there's obviously through the social media and the lead generation, we've got brilliant appointment setters in the office, the guys all Thomas and Connor, they'll book maybe 20-30 appointments a week. Cold call, and I'll go out and set appointments, and the the the sales guys will get appointments, the sales ladies will get appointments as well. So you there's other avenues where you get your your business from and and word of mouth is a big a big one for us because we look after customers. Um people will refer us on and one thing or another, but the nitty and gritty and the hard work is the the door-the-door, the LinkedIn, Instagram, calling people, it's there's it's it's 24 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And it but it has to build up towards that. It has to say, like and then the appointments are set, and then you get in front of the city.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

The end of the appointments are set, and then the social media people notice the brand. We do a lot of we do a lot of charity work, we do a lot of sponsoring, which I love. Um and then through through the social media, people will see, oh, they're doing a golf day, or they're they look after the mons. Well, if they look after the demons, then well why aren't we using them? They're local. The local thing's a big a big driver. And the the fact that they know who they're dealing with and it's not this kind of it's not uh a company in America who you ring through, they don't have a clue who you are, and they really, in my opinion, don't really care.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

It's all about the the kind of fees and things you just want and turn over. And that's so the and the pr like on the product side, that's where you know like we were saying, you know, how you differentiate yourself, right? So you can do the savings in relation to the fees and stuff like that, but it kind of only takes you so far. You have to have the customer service.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

It's okay going on their business and saying, Look, I'm gonna save you a thousand pounds a year. Great. And then you sign them up, which we see a lot in the industry. You sign them up, and then it's smoke.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

They're gone.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

And who do you ring? And their terminals go down and they've lost 10 grand of sales and givers sold it to them as vanished.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

As such, I'll ring that number. Whereas you ring us, we'll be out same day.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Not gonna help and have you have customers lined up who can't pay and have no cash. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

A great example yesterday, quarter past five, uh, a customer we have out in just out in the on the way back in from the airport, just a uh Marshall's store, just a convenience store, terminal down. I was out a quarter past five yesterday evening, got a sorter from and it was like great service. And that that's what that's what I like about my work when people say good service, that's what it's all about. And like it because it's their business, like it's their you're looking after their uh their terminal goes down or their payments go down. That's their that's their business. So it's it's rewarding when look, don't get me wrong, there's not a lot of issues that happen within the industry. If somebody drops a terminal or you know the Wi-Fi goes down or there's a a data outage or whatever the case may be, we will have a resolution for any issue that you have. And when you when you get out there and you sort it, it's a it's like a you know, well done. The team as well, like they're constantly on the phone sorting issues, helping customers, whether it be uh a refund or you know, a missing payment or whatever the case may be, the team on there five stars.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

No, no. But that comes from I'm not putting you know like that that's kind of set up that way on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Like exactly. It's we kind of want not well, we kind of need our staff, they do what we do. Do you know what I mean? And and we look after our staff, um, and we give back their staff, and then that way they give back to us. Yeah. I mean, without our staff, we're no you're you're you're not on that. That's what we're doing. We've got a we've got an engineer on the ground now who goes out, sets all the terminals up, teaches the the customer how to use them, or whatever the case may be, they get a welcome pack, then we've got a a retentions team, we've got a boarding team, we've got a customer relations team, you know, three or four days after they go live, they're getting a welcome call. How's everything going? Is there anything you need?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

It's all it's all there, like could you have imagined this whenever you started in Tarn Street? No, not not. Did you did you think it was gonna be kind of what it's become?

SPEAKER_01 21:22

I'd never really because you're working that much and you're trying that hard and you're it's that's just a grind, you never really look. I've obviously thought about you know wanting to be a successful business and one thing or another, but you don't really have the time they they think you've got your goals and what you want to do and what you want to achieve, but you never really get time to go, Oh, maybe it's going to be like this, or but you do have to look back and go, Well, you're doing all right, look.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, it's a good achievement on the amount of time. And and like you're saying, you know, for for payment services, if you've customers for eight years and it's it's unheard of in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

But we're only getting we're we're only getting we haven't Scratch the surface. We really haven't. Like the amount of businesses alone in Northern Ireland that we don't look after, as there's a massive market out there. It's always evolving. It's not just terminals anymore, it's QR codes, virtual terminals, pay by links. There's there's an array of an array of products and services that we that we can offer customers.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

And then to you out obviously work with a lot of the businesses in in Northern Ireland and as you were saying the south of Ireland and the UK as well. What do you think the mood is out there? Like is it are things okay? Are things getting better? Are they getting worse?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

To me, it it seems to be okay. Um look, there's businesses that are busier than others, um, depending on the industry. I mean, hospitality, um the the overheads that they have at is it's hard. You know, they they they they keep it they keep it going. You do see a lot of bars, you know, closing down and restaurants closing down, which is awful, they see like but in any way we can help by saving some some money for these customers. They you know it might only be there's customers there that we might save £100 a month, there's customers there that we might save 20 grand a year. But so it it's all different, but the mood really it's hardy, it's hard to say. You know, some businesses are thriving, some businesses maybe just getting by and it's very much sector, depends. It's a bit of a and it's there's a lot of uncertainty with what's going on at the moment. People just don't know what they're gonna wake up doing on the on the the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Like even we're finding that as well with our clients that you know there's certain areas are are really doing well and and absolutely flying, and then there's some other ones, like you said, their overheads are just absolutely killing them. And shocking. It is sh shocking, like and and there's no uh there doesn't seem to be anything that's gonna change that's gonna be medium. No, there doesn't seem to be any common sense from the the policy, the the power to be to be honest. And it it is like you're saying it it's it is really disappointing then you see like really good kind of businesses just can't brilliant red like brilliant restaurants, bars that you you know you you lo you would love to go on day and uh having a pint and after work or whatever, and you just like shocking to see. It is really it's it's shocking because it's not just a thing, it's like it's the people that own it behind that. Exactly what's gonna be. Um in terms of um is there is there any habit now trying not to be too thing about this? Is there any habit or behaviour you notice in businesses that are winning or something other owners could copy tomorrow?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Social media.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Social media, you think it's under underused by a lot of people?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Big time. Alright. Social media, like I'm I'm one for a a bit of a stroller in the evening. Alright. Looking always looking for you know businesses that are opening or whatever, you know, like offers that they're doing or whatever the case may be, because it makes you it makes your conversation easier when you're trying to approach them. You know, well, I've seen you done a an event for makeup and hair at the weekend. How did you just get on? It kind of opens that door a wee bit easier rather than saying who deals with your who deals with your payments if they're a cold open bread. Cold cold. Um but you just see no businesses that use their social media. We we have a uh a company and and we look after them and NSKL and they use their their social media excellently. Um and they all are always popping up. Um and even locally, the bit dependent, their social media is top naturally. Some of the stuff that I see it's brilliant, and that I think that drives people towards you know, not not only in hospitality, uh clothing, the clothing industry, retail, whatever, sweet shops, these sweet shops now that sell all the sweets from around the world. If you you see that on social media, you go, I haven't had that sweetened. 20 years must pop in. That's why I think social media is a big winner for businesses.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I think what people don't, and like it's definitely something for us, is that you know, if people don't know you exist and what you do and what kind of different like exactly you know uh and as you say, like for from yourselves, like there's a whole lot of businesses that you don't have, so there's a there's a an entire market there that's what you can do. Um slight change in direction. So if you could give your younger self one piece of advice about running and growing a business, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Um don't don't overthink too much because it always seems to work out.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Alright. Just keep working. Just keep working.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Hard work works.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Alright. And it is like there's a lot of people, you know, get probably focused on it and whatever, and if they just keep at it, you just have it's just a it's just uh and I think it's came from I used to box for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

It's the same thing. No, it's just you just have to keep going. Persistence, just persistence every day's every day's different, but every day's the same objective. You just have to keep working, keep your head down, and and good things will happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

And then finally, just we're obviously doing the foil hospice golf day. Look before that. Can't wait. Steven. Oh I? Yes, oh very good, and uh any and drusen who's attending that?

SPEAKER_01 27:33

We've got uh Michael Collin, good friend of mine, Olympic boxer, uh Olympic medalist, we've got Patty McCord, footballer, Celtic legend, we've got Jerry Armstrong, uh huh, we've got Patty McDonald, comedian, uh we have uh hopefully Shane Duffy, great friend of mine, um, and we've got a few other week surprises on there as well. Good day out, brilliant day out. We've got we've kind of changed the the kind of way we're doing it. This year we would always last year and the year before we would have stayed in the in the clubhouse. People kind of tend to leave earlier. Um so the Bentley have generously give us the steakhouse upstairs. So we're uh playing the golf, shotgun start, barbecue in the ninth, cocktail bar in the 14th, as always. Um then and everybody's getting escorted to the Bentley, food, drinks, entertainment, and fundraising. Just to give back a wee bit more. There's a lot more there that we could be doing for the foil hospice in terms of raising raising funds, because you know yourself when when people are in a a good mood and they have a couple of couple of brambles on them where they tend to donate a wee bit more, which is the which is the plan. So that's the that's the plan this year. And it's getting bigger every year, uh, and it's something that I I I love I love doing and I look forward to it every year.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

And like as you said, such an important local charity.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Amazing local charity.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Amazing. It's great to see. Just one one thing, and we'll finish up on this one. So from Smart Pay's perspective and also then Northern Ireland more generally, you optimistic for the future? Always. Always where do you want to see it in five years time?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

SmartPay EU, Smart Pay UK. Everybody in the world take pay tax payments. Okay. So there's no reason why we can't go everywhere. Just keep growing on it. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Excellent work, listen.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Thanks very much. Thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

All right, pleasure, thank you.