Can I Borrow Your Skin
Can I Borrow Your Skin is a conversational culture and lifestyle podcast exploring self-support, fetish identity, and relationships through the lens of people of color. Blending personal stories with insights from expert guests, the show dives into the complexities of intimacy, body autonomy, and emotional growth. Real, unfiltered, and thought-provoking, it’s a space for listeners to connect, reflect, and embrace their full selves
Can I Borrow Your Skin
Pride, Mental Health, and What Support Looks Like
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At the intersection of Pride and Male Mental Health Month, there is a trans-man telling his story. The love and insight shared gives me hope for our world because the next generation is BRIGHT
Hi, I am Angelique. I am the host of the Can I Borrow Your Skin podcast? And it's June. So besides male mental health, it is Pride. And June is this celebration, and it's highlighting these two very important things that are near and dear to my heart. For those of you that don't know what pride is, it is a celebration of all things lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, like queer, like pretty much all the amazing people in my life. Um, and if you have not followed my pod, read my book, heard me speak, or truly don't know me in real life, um, I am a supportive person of all the disenfranchised. So whether it's based on gender, sex, religion, creed, race, ableness, trauma, etc., pretty much to sum me up, I let people people. Like I do not have an opinion on how a person chooses to exist because their existence does not require my opinion. Period. Point blank. So for the discussion I have here today, I am going to be combining the ideas of pride and uh male mental health. And I am joined with my nephew Toby. Um, and to introduce Toby a little bit, um, he is a college student. He is studying anatomical engineering, he wants to work with persons with uh physical defects and disabilities of the limb. At this point, I don't know if you've decided to go clinical and be a prosthetist or not yet, but that's pretty much where we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so fair. I it's a little bit of a struggle getting into the market. Um just because it's it's a little small, but once you're in there, you're in there. So I'm still currently looking for a job in that field right now.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So tell us about yourself.
SPEAKER_00So I am Toby. I'm a trans man. I've post-top surgery, I've been on testosterone for Lord, almost five years now. Um, and effectively have been living my life completely as a man for like God, probably about two years now. Um I it's uh it's definitely there's definitely a lot that goes into that, that's for sure. Uh I definitely have to thank my parents for letting me um uh medically transition as early as I did.
SPEAKER_01And that's something I actually want to talk about. So what does and did your support look like?
SPEAKER_00Well, so I first came out to my parents. I want to say late middle school-ish as not a girl. I didn't know really what I was at that point. I think I came out as non-binary first. Uh, and it was a very emotional experience because my mom, not so much my dad, but my mom was very heavily religious.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I I was, I was never just the people that my parents are, I was never worried about being like kicked out of my house or anything.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I was I was never worried about uh being put in danger. But I I was significantly worried about being denied who who I was or um just I I was just I was just worried about feeling rejected. So when I came out to mom, she definitely didn't understand, but in her words, she definitely wanted to try. She never she never said no. That's awesome. She she said, give me a minute.
SPEAKER_01I can actually hear her voice saying, give me a minute. Literally, I can I can hear her voice saying that. So Toby is my nephew by love. Um, I actually know both of his parents. I've known them for decades. I've known Toby his entire life and Toby's sibling. Uh so like they they are family to me. All of them are family to me. And it's actually kind of funny because uh both of Toby's uh parents are in a scientific fraternity that I am in, and I'm both of their big brothers. And so so so one of the jokes is yeah, uh, from Toby's father is yeah, my wife's big brother is a black woman name.
SPEAKER_00And I'm just like, my auntie's my uncle twice.
SPEAKER_01So um, one of the things I want to touch on, and I think it's absolutely amazing, and I I I've walked with your parents through your transition, and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring up mental health this month with pride is one of the biggest fears for people transitioning um is family rejection, the lack of a support system, you know, and you didn't go through that, and that is absolutely amazing. I think besides your parents, it's a miracle, you you you had extended family as well that were there to support you, blood or not. And so I think that that is amazing. One of the other questions I had for you, actually, what was the hardest part for you of being your authentic self?
SPEAKER_00It probably was getting over that fear of being rejected. And like as I as I learned to like function within myself a little bit better, uh it did become easier. But there is a little bit of this dysregulation when you're uh I mean you're you're learning to function as a new you. It feels raw. It it like it feels a little bit like a weird blister. It's like it's it's a little bit uncomfortable, but you know there's new fresh skin underneath. You you know that there's like it's gonna be stronger, you know it's gonna be better off, but it is like dealing with that friction is especially uncomfortable, uh, especially early transition. Okay. When you feel I I I struggle with this a little bit. I feel that uh even though I know from my interactions in society, I I know that I pass just as a man, generally, I a queer man, but a man nonetheless. Um, but I I still don't feel like I do a lot of the times. So I'll like sometimes I'll I'll do and I'll say things before realizing that people are viewing me just as someone that was born a man, and that would change people's perspective on that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, like a lot of times my opinions on like uh women's health and stuff like that, I I feel like even though it I'm like spouting the same stuff, I'm saying the same stuff as a lot of the women in my life. Um I I feel like I I do get swept under the rug a little bit more because people are like, oh, that's that's a man, their opinion on that stuff doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01Which, you know, and that's actually one of the reasons why the lifetime risk of self-harm and suicide is so high in transgender men. It's actually um up to 80 per 82 percent of them might actually have self-harm thoughts, and up to 40% of them will actually attempt to take their own lives. It's high. And one of the big reasons for that is the lack of gender-affirming care, both health care and mental health. And that number, when I looked it up and I saw it, I was so unhappy.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, it's it's a it's genuinely a huge problem. Um lack of gender-affirming care. I mean, I can I can't count on my hands the amount of testimonies that I've written to my friends' parents to uh like say, like, hey, I've been on, because again, I'm incredibly lucky. I got on testosterone pretty much as a 16th birthday present, like as early as I could. Um, and I got top surgery at 18. Um, all of my transition goals were it was super early um compared to the average, and people usually don't start transitioning at all. I have several friends that did not start transitioning at all until they were in like their 20s.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Um, and were like already a little bit distanced from their parents and like the people that don't accept them nearly as much. Um, but it's uh it's it is a huge problem because there is that community, and even within the community, I feel like a little bit trans men are kind of swept under the rug a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um there there is a visibility problem with trans men. Uh and part of it is that it is uh men are ex are expected to be lazier almost. Okay. Like when you think about uh women are expected to be if we think about it in our in a in our in our society, women are expected to be a lot more prim, a lot more proper, a lot more put together. Correct. Um, as a general rule. Right. And that does apply to trans women, but the the inverse does also apply to trans men. Right. There's also that uh that rhetoric, uh uh turf rhetoric, trans exclusionary, radical feminist. You're not a feminist if it's not uh inclusionary, intersectional, intersectional is the word.
SPEAKER_01There is okay.
SPEAKER_00You're not a feminist if it's not intersectional.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um but because of that sort of rhetoric, it kind of pushes the thought that like one trans woman are like predatory and like that's the only reason they're transitioning, but it also pushes the rhetoric that trans men are these sweet little baby victims that are the victim of uh violence on females, and that's why they don't want to be a girl anymore, is because they've dealt with too much of that.
SPEAKER_01Fair.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it is it's it's infantilizing. It is. There is very much like a problem where it's like I'll I'll I'll get I'll I'll get called like baby names or like pet names by people that like think that because I'm a trans man, I'm any less of a man. Uh I I'm not I'm not a boy anymore. I'm I'm not in high school. I'm I have a I have a full goatee. I have more facial hair than your father does. I don't want to hear it.
SPEAKER_01Right. And that's actually one of the reasons why there's so much anxiety and depression, especially for transgender men, because according to the NIH and the Trevor Report, you're never viewed as an adult. Like you kind of stay in this infantilized state. And then once you get to a certain age, then it's like, well, you're not a real man. And it's just like, bro, what do I have to be to become this quote real man?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. What do I have to be? And the answer usually is misogynistic. Unfortunately, you find a lot, a lot, a sad amount of trans men that fall into that like alt-right pipeline, that like misogynistic pipeline, uh, looking for uh approval from their male peers. Yep, because that's like the only way that they can get it a lot of the time.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Trans men, gay men, a fair number of them fall to the alt-right for that exact reason. And it's sad, and I I'm not gonna do the political thing, but according to the NIH, um, 44% of trans men suffer with depression, and 33% of as adults um suffer with anxiety, and it's much higher in children. Um, and I and I think the higher um rates in children have to deal with physical violence, bullying, um the documentation, so discrimination at your school and workplace, and you know, because a lot of parents aren't supportive, they don't get like their birth certificates and things changed, and so you know, they they feel that they're and I I have I'm sorry, I'm gonna this is I don't like it, but I'm going I have to because I don't want to use real names, but they feel like they're Barbara, but they're you know, their their birth certificate says Barbara, they feel like they're Billy.
SPEAKER_00Oh Billy dog, quit calling me Barbara, and so oh yeah, it was like I had my name changed legally, like in in the system. Uh I want to say junior year of high school before like you know, they announced the birthdays of the PA system. Right. I never once, I never once got my actual name read out on that birthday on the PA system because they required a birth certificate change, which is something a lot of trans people really don't get done. The only reason I got mine done was because in Michigan, you can get your uh you can get your things amended without an amendment like note on the bottom. It's just they just reprint it like it's how it was all the time.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um, so that actually does I I'm actually signed up for the draft because of this. Um I am I I am legally stealth. Everything down to the birth certificate all matches.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um and while it is good, it does provide like a layer of protection, a layer of concealment. It's also like that's an expensive process. I'm not gonna lie. I like I I'm like adding up all even just the name change court order itself cost me about $300. Oh wow. That's just the name change order itself. That's not um, that's not any of the any of it, that's not a passport, that's not a driver's license change. The passport itself is like $150, the license is $60. Yep. Like it the the money adds up quick, and then you add on to that uh medically transitioning. I mean, I'm and God forbid insurance doesn't cover your surgery. Insurance didn't cover my top surgery.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Um, because all of the transgender stuff is billed under mental health care.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00Um, so they refused to cover surgery. Uh I was a well-endowed individual before. Uh so they would have covered a reduction for like quality of life, but apparently quality of life doesn't cover a full mastectomy. So I actually went to an independent plastic surgeon, and that was still seven grand.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Uh like my appointments for like to get my uh granted, these appointments get more spaced out the longer you are on testosterone, but my appointments to go get testosterone are like $300 a pop.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Um granted, there are much cheaper pla there are cheaper places to get them. Uh I'm my again, my parents, amazing. My dad does pay for all of that.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00Um my my thank you, dad. Exactly. It was amaz actually, the story of me getting top surgery, it it does make me tear up sometimes. Because um uh my my dad's been amazingly supportive, uh, but he hasn't understood. Okay, but the thing is that hasn't stopped him from being a good dad. He that's awesome. He he has this thing where it doesn't matter if he doesn't understand or if he doesn't think that I need it. I can put my foot down and say, Dad, I need this, and he's there.
SPEAKER_01That's okay.
SPEAKER_00He gives it to me. He's um because I was at especially with uh starting testosterone, I was at a point where I was down in the ditch. I was so so mentally unwell.
SPEAKER_01Um horribly, horribly.
SPEAKER_00I was not the person who I felt I needed to be. Um I was I didn't match your outside.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I was you were struggling. I love that your father and your mom have stepped up for you. So last question, and to wrap this up if you could tell your younger self anything, what would you tell?
SPEAKER_00I'd probably I'd probably it sounds cheesy. I'd probably tell him that it does truly get better. Because I like yes, being trans and being a man is a very integral part of my experience, uh, just around life. It's there are some days where I don't think about it.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Like I'll I'll just be hanging out in in my underwear playing video games with my homies, and I'm not thinking about the fact that they're sis and I'm not. It yes, it's important to how I function on my day-to-day life, but there are times where it's not the main thing on your mind.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00It's it's not it's not something that takes over your life. It's it's just an adjective on who you are. And who you are is an amazing person.
SPEAKER_01Any any last thoughts you want to put before we close out?
SPEAKER_00Um I just want to say to people that it sounds cheesy, but it it does get better. Um there are resources out there. There are resources out there for you. Planned parenthood does gender-affirming care. Um look up surgeons in your area if you need them. Do your research, please, for the love of God. Do your research, get your blood work done. Stay safe because a world without you in it is a world that is worse off.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Thank you so much for joining me, Toby. Of course. Thank you guys for watching. Uh I'm so bad at this, but like, subscribe, save, jump in those comments, let's talk about it. Thank you. Bye.