Male Mental Health Month

Interview about male mental health: the good, the bad, the ugly and how to get over ourselves and move forward 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Alright, uh Angela Clemens here, and as you know, June is Male Mental Health Month, and I've been doing some of interviews with you know family members, friends, just trying to get an idea and a hold on how men approach their mental health and to have some conversation. So I am joined by my little cousin Jason, who wanted me to say he's my favorite little cousin. He is one of my favorites. I don't know if he is number one, but you you definitely crack that top five guys. There you go. So one of the way I'm gonna start this is one in eight men actually experience depression and every year, and so that's six million men a year. Okay, and to put more science behind it, men have a two to three times higher suicide and substance misuse uh than women, and so I I want to talk about as a man, first of all, can you talk to me why there's such a stigma? Do you think there's a huge stigma amongst men for seeking therapy that they have to do instead of getting actual therapy, they go to the harmful route?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

You know, therapy, people think it makes you weak. You know, we was always taught that as a man, we're supposed to be tough, you know, we're not supposed to cry, we're not supposed to be able to go. So you suck it up, be tough, you know, handle it. But you know, at some point in time, though, the more mature you get, and the older you get, you know, responsibility for your mental and physical health is important.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I love that you mentioned the whole, you know, men are told to suck it up. And you, you know, the more mature you get, you you learn that you know what, this is not a healthy way to de-stress. And so, what are some of the healthy ways you de-stress besides my dog?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

You know, you know, I love fishing, sleeping, relaxing, sightseeing, enjoying conversations, um, definitely conversations, and it's all about who you have the conversations with. You know, you have to pick and choose people who are eligible to receive a conversation and let allow you to say what you feel and then just get it off your chest, and then not be judgmental towards you, but give you positive and oftentimes a hard reinforcement on what you believe and how you feel.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

That that's a good point. You know, good communication skills are important, and when you're talking about your stressor, sometimes you're not seeking advice, you just want to get it off your chest, have that that unloading moment. And I'm I'm one of those people, like my husband will tell you sometimes I will sit down and I want to have a conversation, but the conversation I want to have is me reorganizing my thoughts. Definitely, and you know, I can sit there and have a conversation, and all I need is okay, okay. And I walk away feeling so much better than that.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

You know, you you you don't often always kind of need a person just to reassure you what you're doing, you just need to get it off. It just needs to be said, like, okay, and once you have spoken, you know it's already in effect.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

And that's one important thing in terms of self-talk. People don't realize that the way that we talk to ourselves is so very impactful. If you're constantly calling yourself a dumb asshole, you're gonna become that dumb asshole. Oh yeah, and and so one of the things I do in some of the courses that I teach and in my conversations with my friends, when I'm you know, especially when I'm being encouraging, I I talk life into them. You know, so if I I see a friend just struggling and having a hard time or a family member, you know, I'm like, what's up, king? What's going on in young world? Like, you need that positive reinforcement. If you see things aren't going well in your life, me going up to you, like, yeah, that was fucked up, dog. Damn, what we gonna do? And I'm coming up to you and I'm like, what's up, king? Tell me about what where things are.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

But oftentimes we do have to acknowledge the fact that sometimes people do put themselves in fucked up predicaments. That is in order to be able to go and acknowledge it, and then for us to reassure them, like, hey, look, you did fuck this up, but now let's move to a more positive note and put you on a better predicament than what you are, and oftentimes we don't do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

We just focus on the bad and we strip them down, but we don't start giving them themselves to rebuild. That is a good point. We definitely need to do more of that, definitely. Coming from that standpoint, what are some of the ways that you would hope that you receive encouragement from your family, your friends, the people that you're you're in a relationship with? And I understand that not every man wants to be encouraged the same way, but from your perspective, what are some of the things that encourage you, some things you like to hear?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

I think just people being understanding. I think that's just enough. Just being able to understand where I'm coming from when a problem does persist. But oftentimes we don't want to be understanding, we want to automatically be judgmental and give people solutions to the problems, but you're not understanding that it is a problem. And I mean, oftentimes a problem can be solved by yourself immediately. It can be, but at times we do dwell on problems and we eat problems, and then eventually when it explodes, then it's too late because it's like, okay, well, now I'm harsh and I'm irrational and I'm an aggressive person. But if you just give yourself the opportunity to think, like, okay, maybe I need to just shut up and listen to them and get an understanding. And then maybe it might work out better. But you know, we oftentimes don't get that. You're definitely not gonna get it in the workplace because you know, you're there to work family-wise, you expect it from loved ones, but oftentimes the loved ones, the people who are closest to you that you're supposed to love and be tender towards, are the most people that are oftentimes the most judgmental.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Good point. And so then that leads to some of our biggest stressors as as people, you know, 32% of it is work. You know, when a third of your stress comes from work, and then that ties to 31% of it being money because they go hand in hand, and then you're looking at you know your health being a major stressor, uh, like 23%, but then you talked about family, and uh those percentages come from the UK mental health and social care, um their private sector. So because you have MHRA, which is public, and then you have their private sector, because you know, free health care gives you a lot of options over in other countries. But uh when it comes to family stressors, one of the things in your generation, since he is my little cousin and I'm older than him, you start to unpack is combating or breaking generational trauma and damage, and that whole idea of what happens in this house stays in this house, and all the abuses that you know, even with me watching our older generations uh endure and some of them perpetuate, and you're talking physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, when you're looking at your family committing some of this bullshit, and then the idea that what happened happened, and now we just move on. That's bullshit, and you know, therapy helps with unpacking some of that, and then when you're trying to unpack that, you're trying to talk to family members, and all you get is well, it's been done. That doesn't help, yeah. That that is absolute bullshit, and so you know, trying to go back and have that communication with your family, and so you can have some sort of closure and you can move on, you know, it it's it's so profound that you talk about the kind of communication in a family because but you know, they also say that the person just because you call people family does not make those people your family.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

And I have found out that I have a better communication skills and able to express more from people that are outside of the actual bloodline and family line than actually inside, because oftentimes you're not the only person in your family, isn't the only people that are struggling with these problems. You know, you often have people who are are in worse predicaments or in the same similar predicaments to you, and people find ways to solve their problems, but for some reason, oftentimes it seems like you find better solutions outside than what you will on the inside.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

I agree with that, and I think a lot of that too comes from the inherent shame that you you have. Like you can I can go to one of my friends or a friend of a friend, and I can say, you know, last night was fucked up for me, and it was because you know, little boo-boo, you know, had self-harm ideation, but I can't tell little boo-boo's mama who's my cousin, so I'm gonna talk to someone else about it. Because if I go to little boo-boo's mama, he he might, yeah, they're gonna feel some kind of way, and you're gonna tell them to man the fuck up.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, yeah, we do that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

We do that a lot as a society, and so getting that that support from outside the family sometimes is not only necessary, but sometimes it's your only option. Definitely. Um, one of the things I do want to touch on is being in toxicology, uh where in my life, in my work life is often times where you know, I'll see case reports or you know, a death will come across my across the desk, and you you hear that this was self-harm. And whether in you know, in toxicology, you're looking at substance use, um, whether it's abuse, misuse, or um trying to do self-harm, and you get this this case, and you're looking at you know the different things in this person's body, or where the stuff is and how much is there, and you realize that oh no, this was intentional. Okay, and so you have this statistic from the Anxiety and Depression Association of America or ADAA, where they say 40% of men will never discuss their mental health with anybody. I can see that. I can see that too, and for me, it's it's it's disheartening because I always try to be that person who, regardless of what's going on, you know you could come to me for anything.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

But but we have we have it now where you gotta understand too. Communication between people is so tight. Like I said, we walk an extremely tight line now in a world where you might be able to tell somebody something, but they're so judgmental and so quick to be able to say boom, oh you have a drink, you're an alcoholic. Oh, you smoke a little weed, oh you're a pothead. You know, and we we we judge people so based off of a thin line that it's ridiculous. And I mean, I do understand we all have our flaws. The fresh is weak, but you know, I think open community, an open line of communication between people, once again, just being able to talk to somebody openly will work out way better than a lot of the things that we put our bodies through.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I agree with that, and I I do know that you know, for me, um being kind of the black sheep of my family on both sides and a lot of occasions, I I walk through life with a I don't give a fuck. Like the fucks that I give are so few and far between to the point where, like, you know, my mother-in-law actually bought me there's there's a gag gift that's a bunch of uh fucks in a jar, and it's like a wooden stamp out of the word fuck, okay, and a bunch of them are in a jar because I would say I only have fractional fucks to give, and so she gave me this was like, well, maybe you have more fucks to give now, and that shit is sitting upstairs in my office on the desk, and I have not given a fuck away out of that jar yet.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And you you know, we that I would they say tusk skin, you know, like a water down a duck's back.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yes, don't we use the most sensitive motherfuckers?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Being being understanding that, you know, we only we do have a shield up and we have to, you know, you also have to protect yourself. Right. But at the same token, you know, I do believe that you can only give so many fucks. Because at some point in time you will, you know, you something will hurt. But I just feel like, you know, if you do more protecting of yourself and then actually find you somebody that you can be comfortable with to also express those fucks that you do give. Right. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

There you go. 60% of male suicides um have no prior mental health documentation. So you you get this person that has these ideations of self-harm, but they don't feel comfortable talking to someone about it, especially uh, you know, more than half of you know, just about half of men say that they're not comfortable talking to anybody about their mental health. And so you have this person that is suffering and they may even have self-harm ideation, and then 60% of them when they cause self-harm, everybody's like, but Billy, how could Billy? Billy wasn't even, he was a happy guy, Billy.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

It's it's definitely signs, there. I believe, I believe that they might, it has to be someone who intimately is knowing to this person in order to actually see the signs. Because at some point in time, if you're in a person's circle, you will notice they flaws of you know inconsistency. Like a person who, you know, who lives with you, you know, you start noticing their little traits of things. You'll start noticing the drinks disappear faster. That person's sleep habits and you know, things of that nature, you know, and people, I don't believe that no one just all of a sudden just off themselves just off themselves. You know, I believe that it's traits of things where you could see, you know, inconsistencies and what they was doing on a regular. You know, we build patterns as people. You know, you you you do certain things as a routine, and eventually once you start seeing a person slightly off their routine, I don't think it's like an immediate cry for help. Oh my god, he didn't take his lunch, or oh my god, she didn't kiss me on the way out the door, and oh my god, but you know, you got some people that are tender as hell to the point where the slightest little off in their little routine, and that I'd be the person that hops in their car and do 100 or 94, and you know, we got a suicide on our hands, or a person that's just tremendously out of whack. I don't believe that you know, it's just all of a sudden just boom. I believe you know it's a built-up overfactor.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, but people have to pay attention. They definitely they have to pay attention. So that that was one of those things I I wanted to talk about is you know, people not knowing how to give themselves that mental self-hug that we all need. You have you know, you have the the oxytocin that we get from giving ourselves that mental self-hug. I I know for me, um, you know, gardening. I I have a a garden, uh three beds in in my backyard, which take about you know a large fraction of my backyard, and and gardening is important to me and looking out at you know, my my flower beds out front and my garden in the back, and you know that that to me is that self-hug. And when you start releasing those positive neurotransmitters, and they they come out with sex, they come out with you know, if you enjoy whatever you enjoy, it comes out, but sex is a big one. You do release them from a substance use, whether that is alcohol or you know, an opioid or you know, whatever, you do release some of that, and so when you start getting into you're not getting what you need from home, then you start doing other things to supplement that, and so you know, and like I said, they will reduce stress, they increase your resiliency, so your ability to take on more, they actually increase your physical health, which they they come out when you exercise, and that's why you get those marathon rubber, because it's that drive, that drive, yeah. You get it, and also with social interactions, and so when you start to see someone isolate themselves more, then you know that's that can be a red flag. If there's someone who's always self-isolating, um, and then they they start to see more social interaction, and then you have to say to yourself, like, well, what's this change?

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yes, yeah, yeah. That's well, that's awareness of the person, but you know, we get stuff like that. It's as simple as even noticing your neighbors, right? Eventually you'll start seeing, you know, if you don't see your neighbor outside, you know, on a regular, and then you start seeing that guy sitting on the porch at two o'clock in the morning every day, you know. It's something to be like, you know, peek out the window, like, oh, you know, Jim is over there, and next thing you know, Jim's sitting on the porch with a shotgun, taking availability to do some stupid shit. But you know, we it's the simplest things, you know, and amongst our families and amongst the community, paying attention is definitely key, but just the simple, the simpleness of keeping everything simple to me. A simple hello can change a person's life, can negatively impact someone in the wrong way, but at the same time, a simple hello can change someone from being a total asshole or inconsistent and going out their way. Just do it. And I say we as people, we definitely have become so shadowed and so shunned in that we isolate ourselves. So oftentimes you don't get to see people, and once again, people living behind keyboards, like we just had that conversation. You know, nobody wants to actually be able to talk about anything because they feel like, oh, if you got the drop on me, if you got the information on me, you know about this, you know about that, you could use that to hurt me.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

You know, we and that's that's actually a really good point because I know if we were talking off camera that COVID kind of shifted how we thought and just the technology in general. You know, when we were younger, your ass was outside. You were outside. There was there was no screen time, there was no this, there was no that. You were outside, and now that technology has made it so that more people socialize through technology and technological mediums, you don't get that that one-on-one interaction anymore.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

And people people will try to uh express their feelings through the memes and the uh not liking a comment or something, and people really do take these type of things to offense. And yes, at some point in time, to me, I just feel like it's a little bit over, a little bit too much, you know. Social media is a great platform to express and get information out there. But when people use it as a weapon to try to demonize or hurt other people or do things viciously and maliciously, it just is so weird to me, but it's so available. I mean, it's a real tight line of walking when it comes down to the social media aspect that you can use it to brighten up almost everybody's day. Just a simple hello text or a simple good morning text uh to brighten someone's day. But at the same token, though, you get on Facebook and if someone doesn't post something and you don't like it or you don't commit to it, or you'll have somebody just like, oh, you seen my post on social media and they felt some kind of way. I mean, I might have seen your post on social media or I might not have. Who said that I was on social media today? Who said that I didn't take a personal day off of scrolling Facebook or TikTok or Instagram or Snapchatting and all of those? Oh no, it's a lot, it's a lot, it can be, it can be overwhelming, extremely. It definitely can be.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Last thing I want to talk about is they're talking about the male loneliness epidemic and the whole idea that because more women are prioritizing themselves, and they have the women-women relationships where they can actually, you know, grab a bowl of popcorn, sit on the couch together, watch a movie, and so they get that social interaction that we all need to release those happy neurotransmitters. And God, a lot of men don't use their male relationships. So a woman uses her film female relationships, and there's so many men doing the bare minimum if that um men are lonelier. And so, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Well, me being a truck driver, 14 hour days. You got a brother. We got a brother. We always have a brother that we, as a truck driver, we associate. I don't see. On the phone with guys 13 or 14 hour shifts, and we'll sit there and talk the whole time. The whole shift is something either personal, work-related, job-related, life-related, and we always have that. Now, at times, you know, you do pick and choose the person, you know, because you don't want to sit on a guy on the phone with a guy for 14 hours while you're working a shift at work and he's sitting there complaining about his old lady the whole time. You know, uh we spend a lot, me as a truck driver, I spend a lot of my day alone. A lot of it, you know, a 14-hour shift, minus the traffic that I'm looking at, minus the people that I'm having to, you know, deliver to in these factories and associations. It's you know, it can be to the point where, you know, overwhelming at time to try to deal with everybody else's interaction and everybody else's personalities. So oftentimes, like I said, we always have a guy that I can call and be like, hey, what's up? What are you doing? How's your day going? Oh, you know, everything's not going too good, the job this or the job that, but you know, communication, excuse me, communication between me and my other fellow truckers and truck drivers and people in the transportation industry. It's great. I mean, you know, we able to talk and communicate if you're in the same playing field. You know, you get guys sometimes, you know, that I used to deal with back in my younger years and life that want to call and, hey, what you doing, bro? You know, it's kind of hard to communicate with them about what I'm dealing with now with my life or what's going on currently because we're not on the same field. I can listen to you and understand what you're going through because it might be a little bit more simpler. Okay, but you know, I can't tell you, oh, I got a 53-foot trailer that I'm trying to bag in behind this door, and it's two o'clock in the morning, and I'm in Brooklyn, Michigan, or I'm in Lima, Ohio, or I'm in St. John's, Michigan, where I've just seen six Confederate flags, and I'm not sure if I should be okay with getting out at five o'clock in the morning. By yourself, you know what I'm saying? By myself. So, you know, the mental part of that is just like always an eye-opener, you know, a deep breath, paying attention and being aware of your surroundings. But that's when you sit on the phone with that one guy that you're cool with, and you like, hey, you know, I am up here in this little area, you know. Oh man, bro, you okay, you good, you know, just pray about it, keep your head up, man. I'm with you with it if you need it. But oftentimes, you know, sometimes you don't have that person. But for me, thank the Lord that I always got somebody to call.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

That's awesome. So I I just I want to end this with well, as a resource, if even if you don't want to go into therapy or do any of that, when you need someone just to unload on 988, which is the national number um for mental health. Um, it it's called the the suicide. I I don't want to misquote, but it's like the suicide hotline, but it's not just for suicide, it's for anybody. I know I've called 988 a few times um in the last few years, and it's great because they are therapists who answer the phone. Uh, when you call it, they also have a button that you can press to get to a line for veterans because veterans do have um unique needs, but it's nice because I you you can talk, and I've never uh called on them recently because that's still you know self-harm ideation, but I was just so overwhelmed, and the things going on in my life were so overwhelming, and like I said, I need to talk out stuff, and I'm not gonna wake my husband up at two, three o'clock in the morning just to you know ramble off things in my brain. I could, but I'm not going to do that, and so I would call them just to ramble off stuff. And I'm the kind of person that I I listen to classical music and I hate the oh well, you know, we're gonna talk about it. I'm like, no, don't don't talk to me. Don't bother it, don't down it. In this in this calm, bullshit, half whispering, half boring ass tone, like and then I had a lovely lady answer the phone once, and she was like, Oh, how does that make you feel? I'm like, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to turn up, do a little swear or something. Like, I got she was like, hey girl, I got you. And I'm like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Someone to relate to, and that's that's really what it'd be. But you know, that that right there definitely is one of those things where I say, you know, once you find people that's in your circle to be able to commit to, it's best that you know keep that relationship strong. You know, I got a guy that lives out in Chicago named Harvey Pickett, great guy. And me and him could sit on the phone for hours, hours, hours. He preaches also. But me and him could sit on the phone and talk for hours. Great guy. And I mean, you know, he works out, he does his thing, you know, real family-oriented guy now, you know, in his lifetime. And I really appreciate, you know, certain aspects of people like that because, you know, you get that one person where you want to sit there and you know, he'll give you the religious side to it, or he'd be like, you know, chapter six of John says this J Boogie, and then he'd be like, you know, I ain't always been perfect, so motherfucker understand it. It's like this too, though. And that's what you that's what you really desire when you do call somebody for help. That's really what it is. That person you can relate to. Definitely the person that's extremely relatable, you know. And it takes a lot to find people that are relatable, but it's always somebody out there.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Awesome. Besides saying that, you know, you have an amazing dog. Oh, yeah. Anything you want to close with?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Hey, much love, Eastside.