Interview with Donny Dobson

A new approach to caring for mental health from a man's perspective

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, welcome back. This is Angelique Clemens. I am the host of the Can I Brow Your Skin podcast? We are in June, and June is mental health month. And I know for the last couple weeks in June, um, I've actually aired episodes of my interview with Amanda Willett, who is the first identified American victim of the Rape Academy. But today I really want to switch gears and really jump into male mental health. So I am joined here by Donnie. And Donnie is the host of the Whatever Talk and the Challenge Our Beliefs podcast. Welcome, Donnie.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I need to do a whatever talk and I'm sorry. Challenge Our Beliefs. But uh yeah, I'm good, cool, awesome. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Thank you so much. And the reason why I wanted to bring on a male to talk about male mental health is I I can name the statistics and I'll probably get into some of those. But I can't talk from a male perspective. And so I wanted to bring in someone who could, as someone who has a penis, talk to me about the stigma of men seeking therapy.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Um I don't really know. Well, I'm I'm aware of the stigmas, but I I don't really go by them. Like I don't believe in them per se. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Um, yeah, uh I don't need to speak for myself. I don't know about I don't even like talking in men and women aspects. Because men and women do the exact same thing as far as stuff that we get talked about.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Right. But in terms of statistics, and these have been proven by you know the National Institutes of Health, and when you start talking about um the American Association for Anxiety and Depression, and it's been published for years and years and years, that when men have an issue in terms of mental health, they don't seek whether it's a therapist, whether it is even reaching out to friends and family, which I feel that having your core group of people that you talk to is so very important. And to get into some of the statistics, uh men are two to three times more likely to misuse substances than women because they do not actually seek professional help or semi-professional help when it comes to anxiety and depression. And one in eight men are actually diagnosed with depression, but of that one in eight, out of them, only 40% will actually seek help, help for that. And so for and you know six million men, just in pure numbers. And so I'm trying to figure out, like for me, I have had a therapist for uh for over two decades, and I've I've switched therapists uh based on where I live, and honestly, based on the compatibility with the therapist as I've I've moved through life. And even if you don't seek a therapist, and I absolutely get what you are saying, what are some of the ways that you personally like to be encouraged? Because I know what encouragement I like to have. I I know what my friends and family and my spouse enjoys. Like in general, are there some things that all men would like to hear, or all women you feel like to hear, or yourself personally? Like, how should we be encouraging each other?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Um, don't seek it. I don't seek encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Like, yeah, I don't yeah, that's that's just that's how I do it. Like I don't seek encouragement. I I do what I want to do, how I want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Okay. And then something doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And then, you know, I try it a different way. I do, you know, I listen to other folks, you know, I take in consideration, but I don't look, I don't seek encouragement. I don't need anyone's approval to hype me up. I don't look for hype men.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah, if that's what you said. That's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Hyping you up and finding encouragement in your environment are not the same thing. A hype person is someone behind you going, yeah, yeah, yeah, even if what they're yeah is not a good thing. Encouraging word is you did great today. That's not hype.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Gotcha. Yeah, I don't seek that neither. Okay. I I I uh to me, I look at that as I mean, I I understand that that that's out there in the world, or I think people think they need that versus people actually needing that, right? But so I'm aware that hey, if you think this works for you, I mean it's working, I suppose. Okay, but me myself, yeah, I don't need encouragement. Like I yeah, well if I like it, I'm a uh if I get uh what is that um inspiration from it? Right, you know, I'm on it. I I all all I need is to think it. Okay, and I'm on it.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Self-actualation.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

So are there people in your life that need external inspiration that you provide?

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I mean, I provide a little, okay, but only that's only because of what I just stated. I don't think I don't believe in statistics for one. I I don't think statistics are for real.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

So, but that being said, I again I'm a I I'm aware that people think that they need this. So I'll give a little because you know, maybe, hey, it may work for you. Okay, you know, it may everything works for some things, not everything works for everything.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Right. No one thing will work for everybody. That's absolutely facts. How do you de-stress? What's a healthy way that you go? This works for me. It's gonna help me decrease what I'm I'm stressing about.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Well, before I answer that, what do you mean I uh I don't take in? Like I'm I'm not saying I won't accept it, I just don't seek it. Okay, yeah, okay. So so I'll I'll take in. Okay. I'll take it in, but yeah, I just won't seek it. But uh, I just do the things I like to do. Play video games, edit, you know, whatever I like to do, I'll do that to de stress.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Fair. So according to um Priori, which is the United Kingdom's uh healthcare system for mental health, uh their independent one, not in MHRA, they said that the main stressors for humans, especially for men, 30% of it is work. And, you know, I can understand that as someone whose work can be stressful. Uh 31% is money, and that makes sense because for most people, money and work are tied together, and 23% of it is their health. What do you think? Uh, and you know, I know you said you you don't really believe in statistics. So for you, where do you think that stressors for the average person come from? Or you can talk about yourself in specifics.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah, I could yeah, I I I would say work for everybody, just about everybody, work. Even if um I'm beginning to notice even in the work you enjoy, right? It's stressful. I mean, I don't really get that. I mean, I I have an understanding of it, but right, but even so, within, yeah, so I would say work and coinciding with the finances.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Health, I don't really think about that now.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

I I think that health falls on the list because of things like cancer and heart disease, like those major things, those major diagnoses that have long-term effects. And people, even people who have you know their affairs in order that have um their plans for what if I get this sick, I want this, this, and this, if I pass, I want this, this, and this, this is where I want my items to go, etc. You know, people tend to freak out.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I say for no reason, but yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

When you get a cancer diagnosis or you know, your heart.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

That's exactly. Yeah, when you get that diagnosis. So when you have that that health issue, you know, you're you find out you have cancer. Um, even if it's stage one and treatable, um people hear the word cancer and they freak out. And when people are told that they have, you know, advanced stage heart disease, when people um realize that they have, you know, some mental health disorder, um like you know, schizophrenia or you know, bipolar disorder.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I think it's uh commonly known as um facing your fears. So you would do a bunch of stuff that you don't even like to me, you don't really need to like it's no need to jump out of a plane to face a fear. Like, I think that's a logical reason.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

You can put yourself into a negative feedback loop by trying to do things that may not even be part of your normal everyday life and you may never actually do or see or experience because you're in this idea that I have to face my fear, I have to, you know, put this behind me and on the side of me, and so I must, you know, go into it head first, I believe is what they say. Yeah, I must go into this head first, and you know, people are afraid of you know a spider, so they put themselves in a room full of spiders, that that whole that whole negative feedback idea that you're talking about. Yeah, that's crazy. I agree that that is not necessarily logical. Um, I absolutely agree with that. Uh, I do know that they are healthy ways that people can seek to give themselves oxytocin. So, sex gives you oxytocin, you know, drugs can do it, and you know, cooking yourself a good meal. Like for me, it's cheese. I'm lactose intolerant. So when I am in a bad mood, I will go get some cheese. And it sounds gross with some dark chocolate with some nice parmesan, man.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Gross indeed, gross indeed.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

It sounds gross to people, but if if you you don't put the cheese and the chocolate together and let you you eat a piece of chocolate and you're like, okay, drink some water, then you have a good cheese. I'm just saying. But so when you know that in when in when you are being prescribed something, if you have depression, usually there is a breakdown in that chain where you know your dopamine doesn't release as much neurotransmitter um as you want, like the natural system. And so you have you seek this this additional oxytocin. And so that's where you get people that have, you know, they take the less desirable uh ways to get that that dopamine release, and whether it's you know having increased amounts of sex, and you know, if you're not in a relationship, you seek all these different partners, or this is how some people, you know, become drug seeking and you know, they start misusing substances, and it's just to release that neurotransmitter to get that oxytocin release. And, you know, so that's why we were talking about positive ways to de-stress and different ways that you can make your body feel good. And, you know, that's one of the things that's very important because, and while you don't subscribe to a lot of statistics, it is quite well known that people who enter a heavily depressed state, some of them will take their own lives, and suicide rates are you know increasing right now here in in the US. And so, what are some of the ways that you give yourself or you know people around you that give themselves like that mental hug to increase their dopamine, to increase their oxytocin? I know you've mentioned video games.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Well, oh one, you just know the people around. You being pay just pay attention to the people around you, you know what they like, you know. Give them give them one. That's all. But uh, I got this theory of mine that everybody acts like everyone, and they and they a bunch of my theories link together, and part of that theory is uh I think do things go the way they go because you treat them as such? That but what I mean by that is I I don't think people are really feeling these ways. I think people are feeling the way they think they're supposed to feel given the situation. And I I mean I'm just going off the things I've been perceiving and paying attention to and reading up on myself, for example. I mean, just just an example of what you mean of uh people acting like everybody?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

No, people the you said that people act they act this way because they feel like they have to act this way.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, it's like to me what I'm trying to uh what I'm trying to convey is women and men are raised to be what society deems a woman, a woman or a man. Neither one is being raised to be themselves who happen to like things, neither one is they're being we're being groomed to be providers protectors and what all this, whatever else a man is supposed to be. Okay, but and men are going into depression or feeling a certain way because they think they have to do these things. Like I'm I wasn't born to be a protector no more than you were born to birth. You just a woman, you would just happen to be born a woman who has the capabilities of giving birth.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

That's not even saying that you even want to give birth, or even, but you're being groomed to be somebody's woman or wife or girlfriend. Okay, and women are it it seems like women are taking that stance and vice versa for men.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

So you're kind of getting into the idea of oh uh yeah, sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

And I wanted to add to that by by doing these things, you somebody had uh I I hear this often about maybe I could tie it into what you were saying is um people who are in these states that you that you're talking about. Anxiety and depression states, yeah. Okay, and they they were they talk to people, hey man, what do you do? What do you do? What do you do? And everybody in that and I think that kind of adds to everybody acting like everyone because you're doing a bunch of stuff that you know you don't really think is cool, but instead of doing the things that you know you like to do, okay, you're avoiding all of that to do what other people do for whatever gets them off. Okay. And that's what I'm trying to convey. That's that's what it seems like to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

So I I if I'm if I'm gathering this correctly, and I I think I picked up what you're putting down, that there are some people who are anxious and depressed because they're trying to live up to societal norms, and these are not the places that they want to be.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah, we're we're we're living by societal to morale for the gender that we are rather than our own morale that we claim to have.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Okay. So I think I agree. We, for example, in our society, just because phenotypically the statistic is very low, therefore, most people raise their children to be, you know, heterosexual, uh, phenotypical, stereotypical, what they're born. And because of that, there are certain expectations that are put on people. Uh, and because, you know, 40, 50 years ago you got a college degree, that meant you got a high-paying job. So a lot of people build their child's future based on those sorts of things. And so, yes, if you are a non-cisgender person, then it can be depressive for you to, or you get very anxious to not live that role. If you are someone who does not want to go to college, it can be depressive, or you could feel anxious to tell your parents I don't want to go to college. If you are a female and you do not want to have children, it's very depressive or anxious because you don't want to experience life with having to tell a partner, actually, I don't want kids, because that's an expectation that society puts upon you.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

But it's up to you to want andor conform to it, societal normal. You're the one conforming to that.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

You're the one worrying about the imagery of others, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

So I picked up what you put down. I mean, yeah, you got it. All right, here I go now. Um, so and I think that kind of ties into the topic of, you know, generational trauma and damage, some of the ideas that you are expected to be a certain way, you're raised to be a certain way, and this is what um people want you to be. And to go even further on that you have, you know, I don't know how old you are, but for me, in my parents and grandparents' generation, you had the whole idea of what happens in this house stays in this house, and and that it didn't matter if it was physical abuse, emotional abuse, um, sexual abuse, you you kept that to yourself. And you know, people are still dealing with the trauma of of that. And um, you know, as a family, as a group, as a society, um, what do we do to combat that, especially when it comes to especially for young men um who had to deal with some of those things?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I don't know. I think is it just gotta deal with the human psyche. Uh, I think that's what that gotta be more part of. Um gotta become what we would call that that much more fearless and chuck it up. But at the same time, I think what I don't know. I said the only thing I could think of that comes to mind is somehow humans gotta start thinking what we will call more maturely at a younger age. Okay. Not necessarily stripping away their childhood, because I say that's like whack.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

But at the same time, like gotta think like a big person.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Like now.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Still have your childhood because we're gonna take care of you, but think, think. Even if mommy and daddy is telling you, go and jump off that bridge.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Oh, no, mommy and daddy jumping off that bridge looks dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Exactly. I think what we call um generational curses are being broken all the time.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Agree.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

It's who's gonna uphold that.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Because the same one we talk about, the kids, they're they're their own. They're their own. They're their own. No matter what we teach them, I doubt that there's I ain't gonna say it's people not, but so let me take that back. What's the chances of that person raising a gangbanger? And that person actually be like, nah, nobody's raising somebody to be a gang banger, but their kid, but their kid is a gang banger.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

It's a situation in which they found themselves, and a lot of it is compounded with things like um poverty and um lack of access to education, lack of access to libraries. Like growing up, there was a library. There were like three within a mile of me. Now, where I live, the library that was within a mile of me is gone, and the closest library is like five, six miles away. As a child, my Saturday mornings after cartoons, I went to the library and I had a ball hanging out in the library. Now, kids in my neighborhood can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

But without a car. But also at the same time, that variation to me is coddling society.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Because we don't need a library no more. Your library is in your hand, and you're in the you're in the library all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yes and no. There is there are certain things that aren't indexed.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Absolutely. So but you can still get to a library though. Yeah, it's harder. It's hard, a lot harder. It is harder for sure, but for the most part, you can't let not get into a library um block you because it's it's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

As a 10, 11, 12-year-old, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah, we was outside all the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

I was you know, you you there are certain things you can and cannot do, especially as a parent when you're limiting screen time, you're not going to force your child to use their limited screen time to go to the library. And so that going outside, making that effort, going to that walk, that meant something. Um, one of the things I want to mention uh before we before we you know stop and get to some of the statistics I wanted to talk about is the male loneliness epidemic. We have um this whole idea that men are lonelier now than they have been because there are less women that want to be in relationships with men because they don't see the benefit in the relationship with the men versus their own personal peace. That is what the male loneliness epidemic is. And it's in this male loneliness epidemic, there was the idea that well, women aren't lonely because they have their friends that they can lean on and get support from. You know, they there's so much in a female-female platonic relationship that's more supportive than a male-male platonic relationship. And the whole idea of asking someone, well, how are you doing? Fine. I was like, Well, I want the long answer. Like, I've always been that friend that says, No, but I want the long answer. How are you really doing? Like, why? And I don't know, you know, I've seen I I have most of my friends are actually male, and getting them to open up and talk has always been like pulling teeth out of a giraffe, and I'm five foot four. So do men actually get the long answer? Do they seek the long answer when they talk to their friends about how they're actually doing?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

I have zero idea. Like, I mean, I hear these stereotypes slash statistics all the time, but I think that stems from what I stated earlier. We're being groomed to be a gender versus being groomed to be a person ourselves who like stuff.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

So that being said, we we're viewing ourselves as product is how I how I see it. Okay, especially when we start off when we talk with women B and men B. That's that's a product to me. Cause uh because women and men be the exact same stuff. Men don't cheat better, women don't cheat better, men don't cheat more, women don't cheat more. They both cheat. Right. And we if we and we we keep putting we keep conforming to these stats and stuff and uh this isn't a statistic. I am well no, well, I I'm I'm that my bad. Uh what what did I uh what did you call it?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

You were talking about conformity to the idea of stereotypes.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

That's my bad. Uh but I the stats add to that, is what I'm trying to why I'm missing into that because what I said earlier, do things go the way they go because we treat them as such? My theory is I think a lot of us is acting out our emotions rather than actually having the courage to feel the emotion that you think that you're supposed to feel. Like, are you are you jealous because you think you're supposed to be jealous given the situation that you're in right now? Or do you actually feel the emotion jealous? Are you angry because you think you're supposed to be mad right now? Or do you actually feel angry right now? Right, you know, and so we keep viewing, we keep viewing ourselves as product. Okay, men are lonely because women got friends. Men got friends, I would assume so because I got friends. Okay, I don't know this guy over here, the cameraman, but I will assume he has friends. Oh, your engineer, I'm sorry, your engineer.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I would assume he has friends because he's not allowed to have friends, he's all he does is be my engineer.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

But you are a friend, I would assume.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

No, I I guess my question is personally speaking, do you sit and have long conversations with your male friends about your life? That's amazing. And they reciprocate. You sit down and listen and long conversation. That's amazing. Most men do not answer yes to those questions that I've asked. Me personally, I will go up to people and I'm asked, this isn't a statistic. These are the men that I speak to, the men in my life. And some of it is societal pressure, some of it is they don't have actual friends, they have people that they do stuff with, and that is a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

But to me, again, I think that's people acting out life. That's people, everyone acts like everyone, because you can I keep saying you. No, it's a general you. Yeah, I understand general you, yeah. You let's just say you don't like you don't like this a specific type of person. Okay, but yet here you are hanging around this specific type of person for why these are so-called acquaintances. Then why are you hanging with them then?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Why are you putting yourself in situations that you don't like? Why are you putting yourself in situations that you don't feel cool in? But you're trying to invoke something, you're trying to invoke a life. I'm like, you got things you like to do. Do them. Don't worry about me. Don't worry about other people's imagination on your life because you know that no matter what you tell somebody, they gonna believe what they want to believe, no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Right. There is that saying that people make up their mind about you within the first five minutes, and regardless of what you say or you do, they're gonna keep you in that box.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

And most people who have conversation don't really want to have the conversation, they're just in it to feel time, in it to feel space. To me, I feel like a lot of dialogue is being reused in virtually every conversation. No one's no one is actually thinking for themselves. They it's to me when I hear conversation, I don't hear bad integrity. I hear somebody feeling a societal way and afraid to think, afraid to speak their thoughts, afraid to speak them, and because of the imagery of others based upon what they're gonna say, rather than just saying it, express yourself, express yourself, like be you, especially when you already have it in your mind that other people are going to believe no matter what they want. I mean, going to believe what they want no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

What you say, so so fair, fair point to kind of wrap up this conversation. Um I'm gonna end on a few statistics. Your favorite thing ever. Um, with it being male mental health month, the Anxiety and Depression Association of America states that there is what they call the 40% rule that men, 40% of men will never discuss with anyone their mental health. And this is whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. Most men don't will not, 40%, that's not most, less than almost half. And this is a statistic that has been proven over and over again that 60% of men who commit suicide have never had any prior mental health documentation. So they've never been documented as having any anxious thoughts, any depressive thoughts. They've never had any suicidal ideation. Everyone thinks that they're the happiest, healthiest little person. And you see it all the time in my personal life as a toxicologist. You know, you'll get an oxycotton overdose. And, you know, I'm I'm looking at stomach contents and I'm seeing how much they consumed and ingested and or injected into themselves. And, you know, you talk to the family, and it's clear that this is a fatal. This isn't someone that was trying to recreationally use. This was someone um intending to take their life, and you get background for the investigation. So you get all this information when you're doing some of the testing and you're having these discussions to see, well, were they just a chronic user that used too much and et cetera? And it's like, no, based on what's in their system, in their blood, in their urine, in their stomach, in you know, in in their eyeball jelly, you were like, this person was attending to do this, like they were trying to take their own life, and you you're they're they're talking to the family and they're discussing things. And it's like, we thought Billy was happy. And so you, you know, you're like, huh, and that's actually very common. And so one of the things I do want to say, I myself have used it not because it has pseudocidal ideations, just because it was late at night. Everybody I knew was asleep, is there is 988. It is uh the suicide and crisis hotline for all of the United States and all of Canada, and it is trained therapists who will just listen to you. Like I called them once just to come, you know, what do the kids call it? Crash out about something going on in my life. And I didn't need the person on the other end to say anything. I just wanted to talk and talk through things. And sometimes we all need to just talk through things. We don't need to hear anything, we don't need any encouragement. We just need to, because sometimes one of the ways humans learn, and I'm one of those people, you have your visual learners, but then you have your learners that have to like draw things out in your brain, and so you need to talk through it. And some it's great to have that sound and bored. And sometimes you don't want that to be your significant other or your friend or your you know your spouse or sometime because you unload onto them and they feel like they have to help. And sometimes you just need that person to talk to.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Only if they're not paying attention, they feel like they have to help.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah. Or they could be paying attention and they think they're doing the best thing is to help.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Yeah, but at the same time, I think it's more you're not paying attention.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

But I agree with your statistics, but I agree with your uh the stats because I think uh most men don't talk because most people don't talk. Most people don't be straight up in conversation. And I feel like it's kind of a cop out to only if you're being straight up at this point. Right. Uh when you say you call the the hotline.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Oh, yeah, I definitely called 98.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

No, no, not no, not you. My bad. The general you yeah, yeah, my bad. Sorry about that. Not uh I was when I mentioned when I said you, I was talking about the um the general you the example that you um brought up. I didn't see that. Oh, yeah, no, that was absolutely personal. I didn't see that. No, no, not no no, not not you personally, not your personal example, the example of uh of people who were called up and will um just talk.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Right. That was a personal example.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

If you, yeah, my bad about that. Uh make it uh uh more expressive. But if you are being straight up at that point, I feel like it's kind of I mean, you got it out, but you're putting on the persona that you want help, or you're putting on the persona that you're trying to change rather than because I think you can just change just like that, because you do it on a such an often basis right all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Most change is gradual.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Um I get that. I mean, I I understand that as well. I I'm aware of that too. Uh but going off what I agree with more so, lean towards more so, okay. It's you're not finished to stop doing what you want to do or been doing. You want to continue this, and you're putting on a persona of the the the atts, the motions of what we call change when you could just change. But yeah, the only reason I agree with that statistic is because just because most people just don't talk straight up. They just they talk, and if you listen, you will hear it seems like a random Rolodet of dialogue with just spinning their head, and whenever it stops, it'll add to the conversation, but doesn't because it's it's on topic, but it won't add to the to the conversation to progress it.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, there's no context to it.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Well, Darny, I absolutely appreciate this conversation with you about uh male mental health here in June. I will say that I am a proponent of giving yourself a mental hug. Uh when you actually talk nicely to yourself and you do things that make you happy, whether it's chocolate and cheese or it's playing a video game, um, those sorts of things do release more oxytocin and it helps de-stress you and de-stress your life. You know, drop in the comments the ways that you guys help give yourself that mental hug and you do things to de-stress your life. You can look Donnie up on whatever talk.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah, yep, yep. Go ahead. Yep, whatever talk, uh challenge our beliefs, um Facebook. Just or just Google.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Just Google it's everywhere. It is Googlable, y'all. I am Angelique Clemens. Thank you so very much. Like, subscribe. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Google.