HR Dynamics Podcast
The HR Dynamics Podcast is where we talk all things people, performance, and workplace culture. Join our team as we share real stories, helpful tips, and down-to-earth advice to make managing HR easier and more effective for Australian businesses.
HR Dynamics Podcast
HR After Dark - Building a Business with Purpose with Laurie Pritchard
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In this episode, Phoebe sits down with Laurie Pritchard, founder of Small World Journeys and recent Cairns Business Women’s Club Business Woman of the Year, to talk about business, leadership, resilience and building a workplace people genuinely want to be part of.
Laurie shares how Small World Journeys grew from a broad travel business into a specialist educational travel company, why choosing a niche became one of the best decisions she made, and how strong relationships with schools helped the business recover after COVID.
They also chat about:
• Overcoming self-doubt and imposter syndrome as a business owner
• Why doing difficult things can build confidence and create growth
• Building a business around a strong purpose and clear values
• Creating a positive workplace culture through flexibility, transparency and genuine care for employees
• Supporting mental health in the workplace
• The importance of asking for help and building a strong support network
• Why Laurie believes businesses should “add value, don’t discount”
It’s an open and practical conversation about the realities of running a business, leading people and staying connected to why you started in the first place.
Learn more about HR Dynamics and how we support Australian businesses with practical HR advice and ongoing HR support.
Super pleased to have Laurie here. Laurie Pritchard from Small World Journeys. Laurie, not originally from Cannes, are you, Laurie? You're from Florida.
SPEAKER_00Is that correct? You know that when I open my mouth. The state in the United States that I'm from is called Ohio, but no one's probably ever been there because there's nothing there. So uni was in Florida, and that's where my family is when I travel back. Yeah. Excellent.
SPEAKER_01But how long have you lived in Australia for? 20 years. 20 years. Excellent. So 20 years. So you know, we're up in Cairns. I think we can call you one of our 20 years here. It's a pretty good, pretty good innings. So you run an educational excursion for Australian high school students specializing in far north Queensland. Do you run groups for outside of Queensland as well, outside of Cairns area?
SPEAKER_00Do we get them or do they go outside?
SPEAKER_01Do you go outside? Do you run groups or is that are you solely focused on groups that are coming to school groups that want to come to Cairns?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, we do. So much of our business is Australian and they're coming from the south, from Victoria and New South Wales mainly, that it really suits them to come up and just be in this one place. We do get overseas groups. However, we we go deeply into this destination. So if they're using Sydney, for example, as a gateway, we do have a coup a couple of contractor guides there who will greet them and then walk them around the city and educate them about South Sydney. And then they'll fly up here. And I've actually been questioned before about would I consider expanding small world outside of the region? And the answer is no for now, because as soon as you go away from a destination, then you lose quality control. So the beautiful thing is that we can visit all of the hotels we use, all the restaurants we use, and have really intimate connections with folks here and even go outside of the tourism industry, get instructors and people who do things that aren't considered necessarily a tourist activity. We can add use them and then add depth to our program. So I can't see us ever leaving this region and going other places. Excellent.
SPEAKER_01So, and I think you know, some of your background before you got here was you're an outward-bound field instructor. So yes, so really connected to the wilderness, to outdoors, to education, working with young people is the feeling that I'm getting from you. So the reason I really wanted to speak to Laurie, and I've known Laurie for a long time. We've done work with you through high times, through some pretty dark COVID times as well, Laura. When you've pivoted and changed your business many times over the time, over time. But you recently won Cairns Business Woman's Club, Business Woman of the Year. A huge congratulations. That was fantastic that you you got that. Because having been involved with Cairns Business Woman's Club, I know that you know that it's a strong field. There's some amazingly talented women in business and in our community up here. So I guess what do you think you've built that's made your business worth recognizing? Like this award is really recognizing.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's there's the me part and there's the us part. Yeah. So the me part, you know, getting businesswoman of the year, sure, it's about it's a recognition for me, but really I couldn't have led this business to where it is without a fantastic team, of course. So I have people on board who really believe in the vision that I have. And I would say staff and guides stay with Small World Journeys because they feel like we're doing something worthwhile, that it's more than just a job, the ethic of the business, the way things run in terms of our honesty, our transparency, but then also the content of what we do where we're educating young people. I think that people feel like it's contributing to the greater good. So I tend to get people who are really invested in the environment and the community, and then they appreciate the efforts that we make so that they feel like it's more than just a job, it's contributing to cans and contributing to the community. And so that, I suppose, having this invested team has then helped me be a better business. And so the recognition was really nice because as I mentioned in my acceptance speech, is you don't often as a boss get recognition or a pat on the back. So I am we get taught a lot of the problems, a lot of the things we do wrong. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, you see all the problems. And so, you know, every once in a while, you know, something like this makes me feel really good because it's outside recognition. And the fact that it's from other women feels nice. And because I had imposter syndrome for so long that it feels like, okay, I'm I I am doing something right. And I I can't get that from my employees, I get that from my customer, sure. But it feels like my peers are saying, we recognize you and and and you're doing a good job, and that feels good.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. So when you won, who was the first person you called? My mom. My mom, mom. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Mom, I did good. I I did okay, mom. I got the award. And I'm sorry I woke you up in the middle of the night. So yeah, it was my mom. And she's always encouraged me to do, she's never instilled caution on me, actually, when all of my adventures and all of all of my adventures and ventures. She's just said, Great, do what you want. I support you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and like one of the things that I so admire, and and I'm I'm sure this is one of the reasons why you want is you just have such genuine energy and passion and kind of vision and belief in what you're doing. Like it just it just comes from every pore in your body every time that I see you, you know, every decision that you have to go through with your staff, you know, that's just that that energy, that vision, focus on what you're trying to achieve. It's just always front and center for you. So, and I'm I'm sure you made that that come through, which is why you're a very worthy recipient. So, but travel is a huge thing for you. Um, you've traveled to more than 40 countries, I believe. Is there one trip that you've done that's made you that's changed how you think about travel or about yourself?
SPEAKER_00It it wasn't necessarily a trip, but it was a an experience in China. Years ago, it's been wow, about nearly 30 years ago. I traveled to China, but I I ended up working there teaching English. And with no preparation, no formal, I have a degree, but it wasn't in teaching. And it's probably one of the hardest things I've ever done because I was so naive about what it entailed and what would be expected of me in a country that is so completely different from what we know in just the thinking, because it's a communist country, it's it's very group oriented as opposed to the individual. And as you know, Australia and the US is very individual focused. And so just the base baseline thinking is completely different. So, to answer your question, it it changed me in a way that it was something that I got into very naively, and it was one of the hardest things I did, but also the biggest transformation in that going into that that group travel.
SPEAKER_01Like, what does it look like taking groups rather than taking individuals for trips, sort of traveling? I'm sorry, can you say that again? So, one of the biggest changes it made for you was thinking about traveling as a group, that that different way of traveling. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00Well, no, not necessarily. It was more about understanding a completely different way of thinking, that there are people in the world who think much differently than us because it's more group-oriented. Like the benefit of the group as opposed to the benefit of an individual. And we're very focused on that. But also, Phoebe, the process of doing something that was willingly doing something that was very difficult. I now see the value in doing things that are difficult. And this is kind of the message that I say to young people in my leadership talk and things is you have to be willing to choose things that are difficult in order to inspire growth and and confidence. So, but you have to choose that. And and it's human instinct to try to want to do the things that are the easiest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The path of least resistance, huh? Yeah. What's the easiest way to do this? How often do we say, oh, I'm going to choose that? That looks really hard. I'm going to choose that. But that's what has to happen in order to fuel confidence and and and for growth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I think, yeah, that's so interesting and so interesting working with young people with that, because I think that we've become very good in bringing up our children to not have to do the hard stuff and to protect them, which we do it with the very best of intention, but are we setting them up for you know challenge facing some of life challenges in the future or you know, stretching or extending or pushing themselves if we have this mentality, like if it's too hard, we we shouldn't do it, we should find something else.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01I I think my children would say that I didn't always tell them to take the easy path. I think I was probably a little bit old school for that.
SPEAKER_00Well, good. And I bet they're highly competent people.
SPEAKER_01So take us back to 2008. What, which is when you started Small World Journey. So you were living in Cairns at the time, is that right? Or had it.
SPEAKER_00I'd only been here for a year. So my my background was doing outdoor education and guiding. And so the only exception to that was that classroom stint that I had in in China. But I was doing guiding uh young people in the bush and then organizing tours for young Americans to do overseas uh as well as in the US. And so then when I first moved to Australia, I worked for a company where I was their operations manager, you know, organizing their tours. And it just took a little bit of a push for me to realize that I I had the skills and the ability to start small world journeys. And the biggest barrier even after I started it was always what I had in my head about myself. As in I didn't go to business school. I'm not a business person, I'm good at my craft. And just like you might have, you know, a someone who's a plumber who's very good at the craft of plumbing, but is he or she going to be a good business person? And just because you're good at plumbing doesn't mean you you will be good at a plumbing business. So I knew I had the skills and the knowledge to do the business, but I didn't necessarily have the confidence that I would be a good business person. And so that you know, fuels into my imposter syndrome. So it it it was a logical next step for me, but there was still a lot of barriers in my head that that kept me from, I suppose, growing faster than I than I could have. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Fear of a mentor, or was there someone that was sort of guiding or pushing you? Or did you have sort of any sort of community around you to help you do that? Or was it really just you know, in your own mind focused?
SPEAKER_00Well, my husband at the time was encouraging me, of course, and uh he was probably the the main one to say, you know, you you can do this. So having a partner, of course, who's who's supportive and saying this can happen, then that was probably instrumental in in you know taking the first step. And you know, friends and friends and colleagues and things, but yeah, it helps to have a supportive partner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I I'm actually really big into having that community around when you're setting up the business. I think that I I didn't understand the importance of that early on, as as much as I've learned having those support networks to be able to tap into. And maybe I've learned it. Maybe when I first started out, I just didn't know enough people in business to have that support. But it's made it much easier. Like every problem I've had in business, someone else has had it as well, or the emotions or the frustrations, be it you know, financial or government or red tape or you know, staffing issues, uh, and it does give you a lot of confidence when you know that you're not doing it in isolation by yourself. So I think I think community is really, really important. It's so many aspects of life, but definitely when you're starting up that business.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you're right, someone's already had that problem, and that's why. And I'm just gonna plug, I'm gonna plug HR dynamics here for a minute because we have found such value in using HR dynamics because we feel like so many things come across your desk, different scenarios that you've dealt with that it's having HR dynamics is like having a friend that you call and you say, This has happened. Oh, thank you. What's good? What do we do now? And you all have have been a great team and a great support to us with anything relating to human resources. So we don't have an HR department, but you're as good as having our own HR department.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm pleased we've we've been able to provide that. As D says that people don't really call us when they're having a good day very often.
SPEAKER_00It's like lawyers.
SPEAKER_01Um, so yeah, education travel for high school students, that was a really niche area to get into. Why did you, why that market? Why did you choose that? And what do you think you understood about it that others didn't like? How have you managed to sort of crack and be successful within this specific market?
SPEAKER_00Well, when I first started Small World Journeys, it wasn't uh exclusively for student groups. I actually cast the net really wide in that I was saying, hey, we'll do adult groups and we'll do solo travelers and we'll and was sort of uh uh more of a travel agency than we were a tour operator in the beginning. And as we got happened to get school business and then repeat school business, it dawned on me two things. One is I really enjoy working with with young people and that their their plight and their angst and stuff resonates with me, and that I feel motivated to to offer the kind of experiences that we do to young people. But I lost my train, I lost my train of thought. There's two there's two reasons why I like that. Just that I I felt a kinship with with teenagers, but we were good at it. Young at hot, it's what you are.
SPEAKER_01Young at hot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and I'd had some experiences when I was young too that that were transformational, being out in the bush and things like that. So I I kind of wanted to continue that on and and and offer that to young people. And we were getting that, not not really accidentally, but we were getting repeat business. I remember what I was gonna say, is solo travelers and adult travelers and things tended to not come back to Australia. Whereas school groups, especially within Australia, they came back every year or sometimes every every second year. So that business model or that market was reliable. Yes, and they would return. And that's what saved us after COVID is the loyal groups that have been coming year after year, for academic purposes, said, Yeah, we we're ready to come back now, as opposed to us trying to grab the international market, which would have been extremely difficult. Then that that saved us, really. The relationships that we had with our domestic schools that saved us. So, Phoebe, to answer your question, it wasn't until the start of the business in 2008, it wasn't until 2013 that we had enough school business that it was it was uh a decision, a business decision I made to drop all the other business and focus solely on student groups. We changed our marketing, changed the website. It was scary because I was saying no to business. You've got to be brave sometimes in business, don't you? That was the hardest business decision decision I've ever made. But we and we became more niche, but in doing so, we appeared to be experts in that niche. Yeah, yeah. And then our business grew. The business grew immediately. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, really forward-thinking, really smart to look at doing that, really. Because it is easy to scattergun yourself. And you know, in some ways it's quite good because you're diversified, you know, you're not at risk. But sometimes to be that niche, to be a specialist, like I can really see the advantage of that. Yeah. Um, what's been the hardest year in business for you, Laurie? And what got you through it? Sorry, say that again. Your hardest year in business. What's been your hardest year and what got you through? Oh, 2020.
SPEAKER_00That's that would be everyone's answer. Yes, it it was 2020, and of course, and and actually, probably no, it it might have been when COVID hit, that was hard, but it was perhaps harder when the business started coming back, and all the tour guides had left left the building. I didn't have enough staff. I was trying to do everything on my own. And and then it, yeah, the business was coming back, and suddenly I needed people straight away. And people had left the tourism industry, people thought it was unreliable. Yeah, guides had changed careers. That was probably even harder than the the initial boom in 2020 when we lost all of our business. It was then getting staffing and things when when it started coming back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, I can't. I think it was around that time too that the hospitality and tourism business industry started losing a lot of staff to NDIS. It really went off and it pulled a lot of people and it was seen as being more reliable, better pay, you know, better options with it. So it was a really it was a really tough time to get quality staff. I would agree with that after the COVID night. That that's what we saw with our clients, definitely. Sustainability, environmental issues are a huge part of your passion. I know. How how do you balance that running a profitable tourism business with sustainable commitments that that matters so much for you?
SPEAKER_00Uh, we'd probably be, I know we would be a lot more profitable if we didn't contribute to you know the local charities and the the carbon offsetting we do and and all the things that that the ventures that we do to give back to the community and the environment. But if you think about it in terms of my vision, and if I had unlimited funds, what would I want to do with those unlimited funds? Well, I'd want to give back to the community and the environment. So the argument is, well, why don't you just do that now? Because why wait until you have, you know, a billion dollars? If I'm integrating that into what I do, that is personally satisfying to me. And that's why I continue to do this. Is one, I get to you know, educate young people, but then I get to support Cans and the environment and the community, and that makes me feel good at the end of the day. So if that makes me feel good at the end of the day, that's what I want to be doing. So why not? Yeah, sure, we're less profitable than we could be. I could take all the money and stuff it into my pocket, but then I want to give it back. So well, why not just integrate that into the business?
SPEAKER_01You know, one of the keys, one of the tools for success is understanding your why, knowing what's important and how you're contributing it. You know, that's what you know keeps you going, it keeps you going through the hard times, it gives you a goal to focus on. And I think that it's it's great. You've got your why, you know, that is one of your that's one of your big whys. I'm sure there's probably many, but there's one of your big whys.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's one piece of advice you'd give a woman starting a small tourism or educational business in regional Australia today?
SPEAKER_00Well, advice I'd give to all young women is people will help you. If you are clear in your vision and you ask for what you want, you ask for help, people will help you. They want to join you, they want to support you, they want to see you succeed. So having enough money or having enough support is rarely going to be your biggest challenge. And I believe that your biggest challenge is gonna be what you have in your head about yourself. So if you can get over those hurdles about what you think about yourself or you know, what you think other people will think about you, you'll be successful. If you're clear in your vision and you ask for help, you Can learn stuff. You can ask AI, you can look it up online. You can get the answers to the questions that you need, the nitty-gritty of how to run a business and how to do your bass and how to how to do all the things that you have to do as a business owner. But no one, you know, you you your biggest enemy is what you have in your head. So do some work on yourself, do some personal growth, take some workshops, do something so that you are prepared psychologically to take this on, and that's going to be your biggest challenge.
SPEAKER_01And what about from a staffing perspective? What would you say is one of the key things for building a high-performing, positive workplace culture, retaining staff, you know, all of those easy things to do? All those easy things. What's your big tip around that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I can tell you what employees, like current and past employees have said about why they like working for small world. And a big one, which I never would have guessed, is flexible hours.
SPEAKER_01But it's big nowadays, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00In a salt water. Yeah. So I tell staff, you can come in whenever you want, just do your eight hours. So if you're a morning person, come in at 6 a.m. and then stay. Or choose each day when you come in. Say you have something going on at home and you want to come in at 10 a.m., that's fine. And that is considered one of the biggest luxuries in my business. And by that means people can never be late either. You know how people stress about being late to work. And if there's traffic or whatever, no one has to stress. If you get if you're coming from the northern beaches and you're half an hour late, then you just work half an hour longer. Like no one's watching a clock. So that helps people, I think, that flexibility people love. It's also, I think, as I mentioned in the beginning, you know, the ethos of the business. I think I tend to attract people who who have that same ethos, so feel like they're contributing to the environment and society. But I'm also very transparent about how the company is doing financially when we have hard times, when we have good times. You know, I've told staff what I pay myself. I I'm I'm really quite transparent, and I think people appreciate that and and value that. So those are just a couple of things. We have a big attention to mental health too. So every weekly meeting we have, we go around and people have an opportunity to say if they're having a bad mental health day or if they just needed to be treated with care that day. And they don't have to explain why. And it's just to get rid of the stigma around poor mental health. And even I talk about, I'm not doing so well today. I'm I'm feeling quite emotional. And, you know, and so we talk about it around the table. So then that uh releases that stigma around mental health. And uh and employees get a stipend each month towards something that that supports that, whether it's a self-help book or a yoga class or a visit to a psychologist. I give out a stipend to each uh employee to promote that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I love that that you've really looked at your business to work out how you can provide that that flexibility and that meaningful connection to staff. And I think that just because you're able to do in your business that flexibility of ours, that's not gonna work for every business, but you have to look for your business to go, well, what would flexibility look like as a possibility in our business? You know, maybe it's a four-day week or maybe it's a working from home, or you know, these different things, you know, that you need to do, but just find something that's going to work. I think it really does go a long way. I think that there is a really big demand, and I think we get a higher output from our staff when they do feel that they've got that sort of flexibility and a little bit of control over their work. They understand what's going to be required and what the output is, but they've got a little bit of control. We tend to get some better results. And I and I love that mental health part that you do, that psychosocial as we like to talk about it in nature. I I actually find too, and and and I'm the same, you know, we've had some, you know, challenging times. I'm well let the stuff know that gosh, I've got a lot happening at the moment. I might be a bit snappy, or but I actually find I'm better as soon as I've said it. Do you find that as well? Like once you say it out loud, you kind of you don't feel quite so tense or snappy, or you know, kind of it's almost like sort of pops the balloon a little bit and it releases some of that anxiety or frustration. So I love that you do that and that you're you're working at getting rid of that stigma.
SPEAKER_00And I think you you said not all employers can do a flexible work arrangement, but I think asking the employees what aside from a pay raise, what would make you feel good or better about working here? Or what's what would you consider what would be a benefit if we changed or added something? What would that look like? And I think employers would be surprised to hear the answers and probably be surprised that that pay doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Not every employee is gunning for, I just want to raise, I just want to raise. Some people, yes, but there are other intangible benefits like flexible work hours or the, you know, we we at one point I had a massage therapist come in and give everybody a 15-minute massage, which is pretty minor, but people go, whoa, that's so cool. You know, and it's you know, it was considered, I considered it fairly small. But if the ideas come from the employees, I think employers might be surprised.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that anything we can do to make people feel valued, to make them feel trusted, make them feel belonged, to make them feel that you know they're an individual. I I think that's I think that's what the modern workplace is looking for, to be honest. I think that's one of the secret successes for creating that good workplace culture. So if you're if a group of four your former students bumped into you 10 years from now, what what would you want them to remember about the trip? What do you hope that they they dwell on when they look back on those young school days?
SPEAKER_00That that actually happened, Phoebe. I I was in a well, I was at a conference in Sydney for a geography teachers conference, and sitting right next to me were some urban planners. And one of them turned to me and he was looking at my my my pull-up banners, and he said, Oh, I I did when I was in high school, I went up to Cairns and I had this fantastic trip, and it was so great, and we learned so much, and we met indigenous people, and it was just one of the best trips of my life, and he was gushing and he said it was a company like yours. And I said, Oh, do you remember the name of the company? He said, No, which I told me we're not doing a good enough job marketing. But we came to came to find out that it was small world journeys, and he talked about it so wistfully and like it changed my life. It was so good, and it made me want to become an urban planner. Like it made me wow, sorry, not directly, but he said it sparked my interest in geography so much so that I went on to university to study geography, and then that's how I became to be an urban planner. And that's pretty awesome. Oh, like I nearly cried. Yeah, yeah, I I can understand. And so the the feeling that it touched them or transformed them in some way um is the best feeling. And yes, and that's what I would I would want. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what I want for all students. So just a quick one to close the best piece of advice you've ever been given.
SPEAKER_00If my mom ends up listening to this, she'd be listening intently. But I see it more as I'm taking this as business advice because that's kind of the topic here. My former boss that I had often spoke about uh avoiding discounting and adding value. So if I just distill that into yeah, don't discount add value. And I've that's stuck with me and I have done that in my business. So if groups are say struggling with the financial aspect of it, of the trip and the affordability, we end up talking about what can we change so that you'll still have the same experience. But I'm not discounting it, I'm not saying we will make it cheaper for you. Saying how can we maybe make the trip shorter, but still have value in that. And and I don't I don't put discounts on our trips or sale or anything like that. I just look at ways to add value.
SPEAKER_01And that's been that's been good advice, and that's that's the way he ran his business, and that's how I I Yeah, I I I have heard that advice before, and I would be a believer of that as well, because otherwise everyone just excels. I didn't I it it irks me when I go to Myra and I pay full price because everything's always discounted or on sale there, isn't it? So my expectation is that you'll always get a discount or a sale to go there. And I just don't think we should be pitching our businesses like that as small businesses. I don't think it's a model to go for. I think that, yeah, don't discount, add value for it, you know, be proud of the value and the experiences that you're able to bring. And yeah, maybe we need to shape that for budgets, but just discounting ero erodes the value, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it cheapens the product or the service. And and I've been told, and it might have been my boss too, just saying you don't want to cheapen your product, you know, you want to add value, but if you're competing on price, you'll never win. You'll never win. If we're only trying to be the cheapest one out there, I can understand if you're selling widgets, but we're not, we're selling experiences. So if we are going on, hey, we're the cheapest company out there, we'll we'll never win because someone will always come along who has a cheaper something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, excellent. Well, Maury, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. Once again, a huge congratulations. It is super well deserved. You you're just one of those people that have this glow of energy and positivity around you. And I think as a member of the business community that you're also in, I'm I'm so proud to have you as part of that. And and I look forward to continuing to see you, to work and support you in your business, but also to see that friendly face waving at me across the room when we're at any of those events.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me, Phoebe.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it was lovely to talk. Thanks, Laurie. Okay, cheers.