E7 – Spring Growth, Smart Book Promotion, & Taking the Leap

Spring Growth & Smart Publishing: Taking the Leap

Is your book idea still hibernating? It is time to shake off the winter chill and get moving. In this episode, Laura and Jess are talking all things growth, from scaling your business to taking massive leaps in your personal life.

The Friends Are Here Segment

We are joined by two incredible authors who prove there is no single right way to make it in this industry. Kelly Shrank and Barb Stone stop by to share their polar-opposite (but equally successful) publishing journeys. We dive into:

• The secrets to niche self-publishing success.
• How to leverage events and public speaking to turn a book into a brand.
• Creative marketing tactics that actually move the needle.

The Beestie Bestie Story

Sometimes "taking the leap" is metaphorical, and sometimes it involves a plane ticket. We share a personal story about the absolute wild ride of buying a home in Belize. Whether you are eyeing a new market or a new country, we talk about the mindset shift required to go all in.

Also In This Episode:

• Spring Gratitude: What we are thankful for as the season changes.
• Wildebeest Updates: Big things are happening behind the scenes at the company.
• Why now is the perfect time to stampede toward your publishing goals.

Whether you are a seasoned author or just starting to sharpen your horns, this episode is packed with the gnu-found motivation you need to succeed.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to Beastie Besties with Jay and Lowe, the podcast where we share publishing updates, laughs, and all the new news in our world. On today's episode, we have two powerhouse businesswomen with us with two very different books, sharing their paths to publishing and what happens after you publish. So that's a very fun Friends Are Here segment coming up.

SPEAKER_05 0:18

Yeah, I'm really excited to like meet them both since we've only kind of corresponded over email so far. Oh, you know, speaking of which, one of the authors that's joining us today has a book that reminds you of all the wonderful little things in life, which we also like to try to do on this podcast. So we check in with instead of our grumpy fours, we like to have our grateful fors and keep our intention our stuff intentional. So I don't know about you, Laura, but I have a couple things I'm grateful for this month.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Yes, I am always having something to be grateful for, and uh I think it is very important when I wake up feeling grumpy, and then I say, okay, let's turn this around. So yeah, do you want me to go first? Go ahead. Okay. Well, I am most definitely grateful spring is here. The trees are in bloom, the flowers are blooming, New York City is gorgeous with all the pink and white trees, and it's also nice in Florida, not too hot yet, which I've been going back and forth to, so I'm super, super grateful that this incredibly frustrating winter is finally left the building. Um, I am extremely grateful to be able to do what we do. And we have, you know, two new authors that just signed on a few days ago, and we'll be by the time this comes out, we're we're knee deep in that. So I'm just I love all of our authors so much. And seeing them blossom into, you know, the business authors that they become is so awesome. And uh finally I'm grateful grateful for just music. It's you know, always the path to changing the vibe, the mood of the day, or the moment or whatever. And without it, I don't I don't really know what I would do.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

I know I always say life needs a soundtrack, and music is so important. I mean it's just like a good jam comes on that playlist, and yeah. Yeah, well, you just made me change my grateful for so Mine are so good. Yours are so good. I mean, clearly, uh you know, living in Florida and not having seasons, having like a colder spring and a warmer spring or a colder summer, I guess I should say, and then hot. Uh I always thought fall was my favorite season, but really it's spring, and same thing here. I mean, walking around the neighborhood, because I was gonna say I'm really grateful for spring in my house, just smelling the lilacs everywhere and like living in this, being able to live in this beautiful house that's just mine and do what I want. And you know, just being a single lady, just living it up here and like decorating, and I don't know, and I'm just so happy for it. I am also grateful for all the wonderful women in my life. You know, present company included. My mom and my auntie were just here. They came with Dottie, my dog, her best friend, who unfortunately had to have emergency surgery on the way here. And I was really worried about how Dottie would behave because she just wants to play. She was so good, and now I have a house full of furniture, and they help me paint and put everything together, and it feels like a home. And so personally, those ladies, professionally, those two authors you mentioned a moment ago, plus, you know, I'm working on the sequel to The Old Witch's Home with Avian Swang song, and I these three books that are coming out are awesome. I mean, you know, Avian is such an unbelievable writer. I love, love, love. And it's nice getting a chance here to do a little bit deeper edit with her and kind of like, you know, see, and it's just like you ask for something, she delivers, you know, just like some of these other beasts we'll be talking to later today. And it's been a lot of fun, you know, working on this book, and it's really good. It's really good. She just added so much extra incredible content and move things around, just uh just a treat to work with.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Yeah, I'm really excited for that to come out. Um she too has just been she just does what she needs to do, and her sales in her first book were so great. She did such a good job with it. So I'm excited for when this comes out for for people to get the second one and to see how those two work together and just like watch her continue to grow.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

I mean, and the care and consideration and the thoughtfulness and the creativity and everything that she puts into these stories is admirable. I mean, just talent across the board. And I mean, yeah, yeah, no, just yes, love it, love it, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Yes, yes. So grateful is for so many things, and uh, you know, sliding into intentions. Oof. The one that I want to focus on, and actually I think it was in here last month, but we did not, we kind of glazed over it. I don't want to glaze over intentions, they're so important in staying grounded and checking yourself, right? But I think that you know, we've had one to keep this going. We're on episode seven, so woo! Pat on the back for for you know, keeping that promise to ourselves and holding that intention to support our authors. Our author support is unheard of, and that is, you know, has been an intention, right? That's been an intention to uh ensure that we provide them outlets and areas and ways to do that. So, you know, there's that, and then but the one I would like to propose for right now is to just enjoy the ride. Ooh.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

Are we still having fun? That's what you used to ask in the front of every team meeting, which we've been a little lax on lately.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

But Leah is uh still on her Spain trip. She'll be back soon. Yay. Actually, she'll be back before this comes out. So Oh sweet. Maybe we need to have Leah on when she comes back and hear about her story, her trip. I would love to hear about Leah's trip. Leah's awesome. Yeah, so uh anyway, it's just you know, it's hard enough running one company, but running multiple and then getting all of them to a point where they need to to do a little bit more at the same time. And so, like, but just enjoying this process and watching it continue to grow and knowing that this is just you know, it's all part of it. The same with like the authors themselves, you know, yeah, you you're gonna hear from two coming up on how much work it is, and you've got to find ways to enjoy what you're trying to accomplish when it comes to business because we all have to make money somehow, whether it's job or entrepreneurship or entrepreneurship, and it comes with work, hard work.

SPEAKER_05 6:13

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean truly, and it's you know, when you and I were talking about these forthcoming books and things like that, and trying to balance it out and see, I was like, oh, how am I gonna do three books at once? And I'm so lucky that these three are all they're just lovely humans. I I'm so excited about them, and their stories are all really great, and they are open to learning and open to communication and things like that. So it's just made the whole process a lot easier, you know. It's like we're all working together toward the same the same goal, you know, and it's like how can we, you know, and each one of them, it's a different process, it's a different path. Yeah. Just like it is for each author.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Right. And enjoying the ride can be as simple as like just telling yourself, reminding yourself it's you know, all part of the process, but also just finding things like having your tea. So I have my Golden Bee bookshop mug and my tea, and like, you know, that music, other ways to just like, yeah, I gotta get through the work, but you know, make it fun.

SPEAKER_05 7:08

I forgot, that's what I wanted to say. My grateful for is you know, my very, very, very dear friend Michelle is coming in town this weekend because which is past the Christmas. Oh, yeah, this last weekend, you know, when this comes out, and one of my favorite musicians from Forever Ago, Pete Yorn, is coming, so we're going to go see him. And, you know, my other friend and her fianc her fiance, they just got engaged, are coming. So it's gonna be a lot of fun seeing one of my favorite musicians with one of my favorite people, you know, because I had an open ticket since there was a vacancy there. And I am very pleased with who's using it. Yeah, that's awesome. Music. Music is awesome, and friends.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

And yes, you know, our beastie besties. I'm glad that she's getting to come out there to go to that. Me too. All right, circling into our news and authorpreneur stuff. You know, the biggest news is that we are shifting our three-day workshop retreat into a one-day workshop, and we have secured the CNY Arts Center in Fulton. Sweet. And it is a fabulous venue. They had renovations like two years ago. They had they literally raised the roof, and I'm so excited. I haven't seen it since they finished it, so I'm really happy to have this there. Um, on top of that, we are uh May 21st. So in a few weeks, I'm just gonna okay, raise the roof. Makes Jess giggle. We'll just hold on to that. We are going to be sponsoring their new book club. So they're starting a book club. The first one is going to have Gomez Adams, who wrote collar number seven, please try again. And then his wife, Kim Adams, and her book. So her book, Bella and Nash, she's going to do the run-a-run simultaneous book clubs where there's one for the adults and one for the kids so that everyone can come out. So we're doing both of those and we're supplying the books. So if you happen to listen and be in the central New York area, I'll make sure you get in on this because it's gonna be a lot of fun. So this is the first one, May 21st. They're already gonna have read the book, so get in touch or figure out how to get the books so you can start reading. Like I said, they'll be giving away some of them. Not giving away, I think they're gonna take for donation the ones that we give them. Of course, you can grab them on Amazon and then participate in that. And so the authors will be there for any questions and answers, autographs, all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

And yeah, speaking of giggling, if you want to giggle, your caller number seven, please try again, is freaking hilarious. I Gomez and Kim both wrote such excellent books. You know, I mean, I, you know, laughed out loud um many, many times, as I've mentioned how much, yeah, yeah, and Kim's book is so great. She's really those two are tearing it up on the marketing scene.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Oh, yeah. I love their advents all the time. And they're actually posting things on social media and just like they're having a blast together. So speaking of keeping it fun. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And um, yeah, and so I'm excited to go. I'm gonna try to get there so I can be a part of that. Then we are yeah, so the for the circle back, the workshop will be in the same location, and by the time this comes out, there should be registration there. We're gonna have tables with a contest for best table in different categories. So you can sign up to have the table there, uh, whether you're craft or books and or an author, and you can um set up. It'll be outside that the things to be gorgeous in August, it'll be perfect. And then the workshops will be held during the same time inside, but they'll be separated so you can pop in and out to your table if you can want to go to both.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Since I'm ignorant with the area, is that the place where um Amaranth is? That kind of real cool collective space?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

No, that's that's in Syracuse itself. Fulton is probably about a half an hour north. It's a little outside of Syracuse, but it's not too far, and it's a very cute little town. And they're gonna be doing I thought it was showing the movie, but they're not showing the movie. They're doing the play of Legally Blonde afterwards, so you could stay for that as well.

SPEAKER_05 10:47

That's awesome. Yeah, that's super fun. Um, is it like school actors or adult actors, or do you know, or I think it's community?

SPEAKER_04 10:56

I think it's a mix, I think it's community, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. So our um our speakers might be having uh building backdrop behind them or something like that, because they'll be doing it in the stage area. That's super fun though. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be awesome. And they're just they're such great people. Oh, I would love to shout out Bill Grace. He is my contact there, and he'll be retiring, so I appreciate that over the years. Uh, when when um Barb talks about doing billboards, I think he was the contact. But um, he's just such a great person, and he's not an artist himself, but he's such a big supporter of the arts and artists, uh, authors. And so, um, you know, I just want to give him a shout-out before he sets off on his retirement and heads off into the sunset. Hopefully, we'll stay in touch. Yeah. Yeah, and I think we're gonna be at Brooklyn Book Festival. We'll keep shouting that out. And with our friends at Fiction Magazine. Yes, with all of our our beastie friends. And then we have um a YouTube video. It it's if it's not out already, we did a recap of the AWP event with the authors that attended, so you could hear and learn about what they learned and if you would like to attend next year when it's in Chicago. So you can check that out on our YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_05 12:12

Yeah, I had a little teaser conversation with one of the authors that was there, and you know, just kind of the things I wish I'd known, and it was like comfortable shoes. You gotta wear comfortable shoes was right kind of a highlight of that. It's like, oh I know, Siri. Well, I hear the doorbell, so our friends must be here. So let's invite them in and see what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

So let's invite in Kelly and Barb. Welcome to the show. Hi, welcome. Hi, good to see y'all. Awesome. Well, let's kick off with Kelly. Kelly and I met in Syracuse. I met both of them, these lovely ladies in Syracuse. And Kelly, Kelly came to me with her book started and didn't want us to publish for her, but wanted to self-publish, and I know that she's completely technically capable. So we did coaching work together. So uh that's another service that we provide where we'll just meet with you and walk you through it. And so I would give her homework, and I've never had a better student. That's great. But tell us about your book, Kelly.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah, uh, so it's clarity by design, comprehensive checklists in medical communication, and it's about creating comprehensive checklists for work tasks. It's it's supposed to, it's it's meant for people like me who are medical editors or medical writers in in the pharmaceutical industry. So it's a very niche kind of world. To say the least. Yeah, I mean it's just so niche, and it's I just can't it's really hard. Talk about that more.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Like you wanted to have this done by this conference you were going to because that's where your audience is. So how did that all work out? I mean, and you did like when you I think of writing a book for technical medical writers, like this is so very specific, but then you still made it fun.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Yeah, I did try to make it really approachable because people do have a lot of uh, you know, I don't need that, you know, kind of, you know, and and then there's some people who don't need productivity, they have their own things they want to do. And so it it kind of needs some um it needs some motivation, they need some um encouraging, you know, encouragement. So I try to do try to make it very approachable. But it is really hard to to market to such a small niche. I I did take it to that conference, it's the American Medical Writers Association, and I did have a lot of people buy books from me, and I did have um some people ask me afterwards, like, where can we order your book? And I'm like, I carried like so many books. Like, you could have had a book, he could have had it cheaper and signed, and right then, like, why didn't he ask then? Like, it ended up being really weird because hearing himself publishing this book, and it's a tiny little thing, and it's it's just as long as it needs to be. And then there's a colleague of mine who was actually also traditionally publishing a book called Medical Editing, which is like a textbook, it's like a huge textbook, and she brought it to the conference, and she actually had they like gave them away.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

And I was like, oh my gosh, you're already trying to get $12 from people to buy my book, and she's like giving away a textbook. So I was like, not you just never know what's gonna happen, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:24

You know, so it's everybody has different interesting gold and their own budgets. So you definitely cannot compare yourself to what the author next door is doing because you know, everyone has a different, you know, just it is not necessarily just because she's traditionally published, but she might have 10,000 of them in her closet she's trying to get rid of.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Whereas the press was there, the press was there giving her book away. Yeah, yeah. That was the so that was the total totally different situation. But yeah, I am using it as like, okay, so where is she? Like, what is she doing? So I'm trying to see what kind of stuff she does and see if I can emulate any of it. And then also on Amazon, she's usually gets paired with me. You know, when you say, Oh, people who bought your book often bought this book. And I was just like, oh yeah. So like I felt like for a little while there that would that I was in the right place to get to the right people. It's not so bad.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

I mean, and medical editing too, uh just the terminology, making sure it's all spelled correctly or pronounced the code.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

That's why you need the checklist. Like, it's so specific. The formatting is specific, the abbreviations just a lot of details you have to track. Because I I was a technical editor for 15 years before I became a medical editor, and I just didn't need checklists the way I do in this industry.

SPEAKER_05 16:42

Yeah, right. There's a full SNL skit with Penelope. Kate McKinnon, when she was introduced, playing Penelope Cruise, and they had her try to pronounce all these words that were in the shampoo, and it was so ridiculous just watching it. And I I mean, you know, uh pseudophedrin or pseudo ephedrin or however everybody pronounces it differently. I so bravo to you on that. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

I don't have to say any of those words. I just have to read them and know if they're spelled right. So it's a it's a different skill.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

That would not be my strong point. So, yeah, so let's talk about, you know, what was the self-publishing experience like for you? You know, I know that some you were always telling me I didn't do enough or I'm gonna. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Well, the marketing is the harder the marketing is way harder. I mean, like, I was a technical writer, technical editor, like I'm good with software, like I can figure out systems pretty well, been doing that kind of stuff for a long time. So getting into Amazon wasn't hard. You know, doing initially I thought, well, maybe, you know, then I would lay it out, but then I saw a book that someone had book designed and done the cover, and it was this seamless. It just it just looked amazing. And I was just like, oh no, I'm not gonna do this. I I want what they have, you know. And so I ended up hiring, you know, this this person who's a book designer, cover designer, and I had her help me with that. So, you know, I did pay people. I I paid a book designer, cover designer. I even though I'm an editor, I paid an editor to look at it and then to proofread it when when the final um files were done. But you know, it's I like the flexibility of it. You know, and you don't make a lot of money, but like it's it is what it is. You know, I can make more if I want to go out and sell books to people in person, of course. You know, and I I like the flexibility of like knowing that you know, if I want a second edition next year, I can do it. Like I don't have to wait for anybody else to to tell me it's okay or that I didn't sell enough or that I you know, anything like that. So Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

A lot more creative control, right? Like Doc well and like Dr. Caprono always says the niches have riches. So I mean just stay the course, it's all there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

And then Barb and Kelly, you guys met, I think, the same way that I met Barb through Wise.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Why I met you more, I think I met you in the community somewhere along the line, and then you came to WISE, and that's how I met you. Right. And then later on I met Kelly, yes. Through Wise.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

Yeah, so I think every woman that I know in Syracuse is connected to Barb in some way. Everyone says, I have this new coach at Wise, and I'm like, uh-huh, and her name is Barbstone. Yep, know her. Yep. But I did have another coach before I had Barb, so there has there are other coaches. There are other coaches. There are, but for whatever reason, the ones that get connected with her are ones that that I know or always get connected with her.

unknown 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

That's yeah, that's but I met you, Laura, at like a meeting. Like just at a meeting, I remember meeting you like way back.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

Yeah, yeah. When I first moved to Syracuse, I was doing a lot of networking, so who knows where those would have been.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

But yeah, so Kelly, what is probably one of the biggest takeaways you have since being published?

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Dear.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Or pieces pieces of advice you might share.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Well, piece of it, I mean, just the marketing, it it's just so much. I think that's that's probably the hardest part. I think the marketing is like harder than the writing, especially for somebody with my skills. Like, I just I can't think of there's like I have all these ideas, there's not enough time. Like, how do you design? Trying to, you know, I have so many speaking engagements and you know, getting in all these different places. It's so much fun when I go out and I'm so happy I do it. But like it's just a lot just to keep up to keep track of it and keep up with them. You know, I don't have a VA or anything. I probably should at this point. You know, but just trying to, you know, get people to look at the book, buy the book, you know, maybe book me for something, you know. It's just a lot. I I'd say the marketing. I I I think maybe the Amazon review thing is probably what I wish that I'd paid a little more attention to is getting a lot of reviews before I had launched it. Um but I was just trying to get to that conference, and so I think I'm gonna have to kind of do it. Now right. Do the Amazon review push now.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

That makes sense. Well, better late than never on that one. Oh, which is a perfect segue in to Barb, who is so so good at marketing and promotion, and you're at another event every other day and winning another award every other day. So you came to us with drool with so much to drool about after complete and utter frustration with your previous publisher. And I was so so happy that we were able to get this thing back on track for you. So, but I did want to see from your perspective, not from me as a publisher, but from you, in hindsight now, what are some of the things that you would tell someone else who's looking for a publisher what they should be looking out for or looking to get?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah, so I think number one, thanks, Laura, because you guys helped me when I was in a mess. But you know, I think, you know. People recommend you to uh start working with somebody and and then, you know, they go like, Oh, they'll take care of you. But um as I went down the road, I became um the project manager and I became you know, I was supposed to know everything about it, and that's not what I I hired the original publisher to do. At the time, I was thinking I wanted to go to Laura because I knew know Laura, but she was doing more workbooks at that time, and she hadn't really gotten into other things, and so I'm going like, okay. So, you know, I walked down the road with this publisher, and I mean it was a good learning experience, so my advice is to really do your research and really listen to your heart and gut. And something kept on saying to me, This isn't going good, this isn't going good, and even in the first month of engagement, I said, Hey, look, if you don't want to do this, I'll move on. Oh no, no, we're gonna support you. Well, that was my first sign, and anyhow, it did make it to Amazon bestseller in four categories, and I mean I really worked the launch for it because I ended up tapping into everybody that I knew who had an email list to mail out that I was having this um book launch through Amazon to get it the bestseller campaign. Bait it, and I was happy. Um, you know, but the process of it is a lot of work. You gotta get the reviews up front, and then you have the campaign, and then you send out all these emails, and then you send out all the reminders to have people to buy the Kindle version, and so it was a lot of work. Yeah, you know, in hindsight, it was okay, but then there were issues with the publisher and Laura and Jess, Wild the Beast, to my rescue. Um, so um, and now, you know, continue to um move on, and but it is a lot of work. If you think you're just gonna put it out on Amazon and go through Ingram Sparks and go to different um, you know, Barnes and Noble that it's just gonna sell, you're gonna be, you know, lots of oodles of copies. It doesn't happen that way. But I had decided that, you know, Druel, it's about life lessons through the eyes of my four great dames. And I really wanted to make it more of a ripple effect. So, and I'm finding that there were so many different places. I mean, I've probably gone on about fifty to sixty podcasts, and again, fitting it into my schedule was a lot of work, and then trying to every week or every other week there was a pop-up event where somebody wanted me to talk about it. And I'm still doing that. Um, you know, I've got um two events in May. One of the things for people to think about is getting in front of book clubs. Book clubs are amazing. If you can get there to speak and then put the book in front of them and then have them have a conversation. Now, mine is a little bit different because it is life lessons. It's got a little verbiage, a uh picture, and a pithy statement. But what I do is I have people open up and start conversations, and before you know it, I am selling books. But, you know, it has been it has been a journey, uh, and there isn't one thing that's gonna be the magic pill. There's a lots of different things, and I have applied for a lot of book awards. I have been uh third place on one, honorable mention on another one, but I won two. One um was the Independent Press Award for a gift book, which I had wanted to make this. I'm really excited about that one, and I'm going to be getting the award next weekend going down to New Jersey. And the reason I was really excited about that was because I wanted this book to come out for Mother's Day and graduations to be able to give it as a gift for life lessons for people. So I'm really proud about that one, and then the other one that I just found out about is the Book Fest. I was the best for nonfiction animal because obviously four great things. So yeah, and it's a journey, it's kind of a little bit of a legacy. There is so you know, a and I you never know when you're putting your work out there where people are gonna find you. But you know, I do have a lot of speaking events, and then I I I do go into school. I've got another gig going into a school and working with these children because this is part of SEL, social emotional learning, where they really need to learn about life. I'll be doing a presentation and then we'll be going through stories, specific stories in the book, asking them questions about it. And I might even be able to bring Zeus too.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

That would be awesome. I love that you bring the dog sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

And then I do pop up events. I've been asked to you know, last year I was at one and they go, Barb, would you do it again? And you know, I have merchandise um to um to sell and to go along with this and and people love the um love the thought. But you know, another one that I just got uh a call for is going into uh nursing homes or assisted living and talking to them about, you know, the book. And you know, again, life lessons. What did you learn? How can you share and how can you pass these on? Because we're always in the learning mode. So Yeah, it's been a journey.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

I think it's such a great crossroads from you and your values and your dogs, and it's it's just such an embodiment of you yourself, and so it's it's your path. This is I think it's amazing, and I love seeing all the stuff that you're doing and the different ways it's percolating out into the world. Um, but I do want to ask you, since you have have been, you know, some some people publish, especially self-publishing, and they they don't do much. Some of it because they don't know what to do, some of it because they don't have a budget. But I think people look at other authors and they think, I don't know if they think it's easy or someone gave them money or if they're getting it for free, or you know, for for you when you do things, um, clearly you're spending money on something, and I don't want you to tell us how much or anything, but how are you deciding where to put it? Like, um, there are a hundred thousand awards. Yeah, how do you decide I'm gonna I'm gonna put some money into this one or I'm going to put into this one? Like you said, the one was the gift, the gift one, so that makes sense for you. Yeah. But just kind of if you could summarize how you decide where to spend your marketing dollars.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, so I think part of it is to end up seeing like where can I get the most exposure? You know, I have had billboards, you know, and then I'll get people phoning me and go, Barb, I see you, you know. Or I did the movie theaters. And they go, Barb, you're on the screen. So will I end up saying that I'm getting my money back on that? No. But and and I I'm not, I didn't do it to start saying I was gonna get my money back. But this has become, yes, I'm a a leadership development coach. The name of my my company is Build Your Path, and I'm helping people build their path. And the stories in this book come from my blogs, so it's all connected. But I just decided that when we pulled out the blog and the stories from the blogs that we were gonna put it through the eyes of the great day. So it's all connected. So it's it's just part of an extension of who I am and really wanting to get it out there. Unfortunately, I'm gonna tell you, Laura, I haven't really set a budget. I just like, do I wanna show up there? And do I wanna do that? Just as I know that I have worked with my clients and end up saying, you know, as you get different marketing channels and end up saying what's working, what's not working, you know, there are certain events that I've done the last year that I would not go back because it was not um a good event for me. But I didn't know until I did it, you know. And and then just kind of in the one of the things I think that uh we're all to an extent servant leaders, and I really want to be able to share. Um and when I get um some people who I've I've done, um, for instance, I've done um raffle baskets, and I've had people come up to me at different events and go, I got your book in a raffle basket. And I'm I'm just it was it just really touched my heart. And I I say to him, Thank you very, very much. And what I'd really love for you to do is please pass on the word, you know, to sell it and um get the exposure there. So um yeah, I mean, I I think getting out and speaking is another place, and um I I just I'll do it because I'm very passionate about this book. I'm very passionate about the meaning of it and the impact that it can make in in everyone's lives.

SPEAKER_05 31:42

Truly, I mean, the title alone is its own glimmer. There is so much to drool about, right? Because we can get stuck in that looking at the negative things. I'm in the Denver area and completely dog obsessed. So I'm just sitting here like, oh gosh, I would go to these adoption events with these rescues and just have the book there, set a table up, get to pet all the puppies, and it's just that's what we always tell everyone, just make it your own and find like, you know, we always say throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. And it is just kind of dipping your toe in and seeing like, do I like the temperature here? Are there more people in this pool hanging out, having a good time?

SPEAKER_03 32:15

So Yeah, I'm going to some new conferences this year to try to see, like, okay, are these people are these gonna be checklist people? We'll see, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Gonna go hang out there and see what happens. See what happens. Exactly. The possibilities are endless. They really are. And it's it's like everybody wants a magic pill that it's just gonna this is what I gotta do. Just tell me what to do and it'll work. It doesn't work that way. No. Yeah. It's not until you step into it and you make it your own. And exactly. So Jess, you nailed it, you know, it's like, yeah, I've like helping hounds we got here, and I another rescue, you know, it's endless. And but it's also you've gotta really think about your time as a resource and your money as a resource. Where do you want to put that resource? So what fills you?

SPEAKER_05 33:06

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

On everything.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

Yeah. And you don't always know. Our time is running short. Uh, Kelly, what is next for you?

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Or speaking of conferences. It's really, yeah, it's really busy. I'm gonna go to the uh ACES conference next week, which is uh copy editors. And I'm not speaking at that one, so I'm just getting the labeling and just seeing if there's a lot of checklist users there. Uh and then next month I'm gonna go to a local animal, uh, which is conference. It's gonna be a smaller event, probably meet more people, more intimate, you know, kind of thing, and see how that goes. And then I'm going to editors Canada, which the first international conference. Oh, I forgot I'm speaking in an international combo. I'm gonna speak international conference, you know. So that's that's next month, and that'll be fun. And then I have another local one in June, you know, um another local ML one in June. So this is spring conference season, there's just a lot going on, and I'll have a little break in the summer before fall conference season starts up again.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Yeah, you and Laura, you're really traveling a lot lately. She's bouncing all over as well.

unknown 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

And Barb uh is a rolling stone. Oh, yeah. So, Barb, what is next for you? Among air note. I know you have a million things, but top five, top three, couple things coming up?

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Top three. Number one is I do have another book coming out, and it's gonna be more geared towards grade schools and and I'm gonna have questions in there because I think that a lot of the stories are asking questions to really get the dialogue going, and especially with the younger children, because there is a lot of lessons in here that they need to learn. And so that's going on. I'm gonna start a YouTube channel because what I'd like to be able to do is continue sharing the stories of this book and getting it out. So another way of getting it out is doing a YouTube channel and get them to buy the book. And then continuing to speak about book clubs, pop-up events, and just being able to spread the word about drool because drool is meant so it you know, life needs to be savored and we need to drool over life.

SPEAKER_05 35:29

So exactly, exactly. And does Zeus have the outfit that he's wearing or that is on the cover? So when you bring him along to these events, will he be in that beautiful bow tie?

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Uh he has bow ties, but he does not have a red and yellow one.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yes. That was part of the merch. That's not in your merch catalog. Thank you, Kelly.

SPEAKER_05 35:55

This completely off the top of your head. Don't overthink it. If you could invite anyone living or no longer on this earthly plane for afternoon tea, who would it be? If anyone's ready, they could go first. You know, it could be a mentor, it could be a celebrity that you find interesting. You know, I'm or a dog that's no longer with us, of course. So please, as your whoever's are either of you have an idea?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yes. Okay, we'll go. Please, thank you. So my grandmother, uh we call her nanny. She was from Poland, she came over here, and you know, she didn't have a lot of money, but one of the things she really taught me is a lot about love. And she was ever so and she she taught me about love because she told me about how to be unconditional about it. And I would love to share this book with her, and I know she can see it, but to just see that that was a seed that she had planted in me when I was a child and a baby and taking care of me, because that's what she really did. She took care of.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

No, that's a great answer. Too bad you gotta follow that one, Kelly.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

It's painful, yeah, because I I was just thinking about my grandmother and how, you know, she always instilled a love of books with me, and I've gotten a lot of her books, and she's you know, I've she had an Alzheimer's at the end, and I know I feel like I lost touch, you know, before it hit too hard, and then it hit too hard, and then you don't. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:33

It's that's such I think that's the cruelest.

unknown 37:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:36

Yeah. Uh yeah. I had a grandmother, a great grandmother I wish I could have gotten to know a little bit better. She came from Italy and English wasn't her strongest suit. But she was just like Barbie's saying your grandmother is, and I'm sure Kelly yours was as well. Or it's just like she was one of the kindest, just love, love, love, love, love, all the time love people. And she was fascinating. Always wanting, you know, typical Italian granny wanted to give you more food and more candy and more bananas and everything all the time.

unknown 38:03

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Well I hear uh Dottie gearing her face up to drool all over.

SPEAKER_05 38:07

Whoops, yep, that's my dog. Yeah, I get I don't know who the name on that one, but she's very thirsty and I didn't feel it. So, yes, clearly she's my reason for living. I love her. She loves to shove her face in the water and then well, her actual breed is an Airedale terrier terror terrier. Someone called her an airhead terrorist. And I was like, yeah, that tracks too. Terriers, if you have terriers, you know they are. Smart and headstrong and hilarious. So she's great.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

She loves to soak her face and drool all over me, even though she knows I hate it.

SPEAKER_05 38:43

Drips that beard drips everywhere. So I made sure to put a big carpet in the room that her bowl's in so it doesn't ruin the floors.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

All right, guys, this has been amazing. Before you go, tell people where they can find you. Kelly Burst.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Website is headbookworm.com. You can buy a book on there that I'll sign for you. I'll give you a bookmark. Uh, you know, or you can go to Amazon like everybody else, or you can ask your bookstore to stock it. And please leave me an Amazon review.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Thanks. And you can find me at barbstone.me. That's my website, and you can find out all about me. You can see a lot of the podcasts, and um, you can buy my book there um too, or in Byrnes and Noble at Amazon. And yes, I would love a review once you purchased it. The impact that it's made on your life.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

Yes, Dottie is very aggressively saying, give those reviews. Thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_05 39:37

Those books aren't gonna chase themselves. Thank you so much for making the time, ladies. It was really great to see you on here.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

So now that we have our friends have left the building or the pasture if we want to stick with all our nerdy funds, have you heard about how the best way to find a publisher is? I can use words. Hi, I'm the editor and I can't put sentences together. You real good stuff find a research on the internet. So yeah. Yeah, so Laura, you know, obviously we've been talking with people and kind of finding out how they found their path or, you know, bar built their path. What's some of the stuff that what's some of the feedback that you've been hearing from people?

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Yeah, um, I mean, it's always this. I think we need to talk about how to find a publisher because a lot of people don't find out the wrong way until they've already done it.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

So there's there's things that you really, really need to know up front before you start looking. And first of all, talk to many. Even I'm, you know, if you talk to us, talk to four others. You know, it's we are the worst sellers in the world. We're not here to sell anyone, but we are here to invite you into our herd if you would like to be with us. But if there's a better fit for you out there, by all means. But there are just, you know, first of all, what is we're not going to get into this today, but what is traditional versus hybrid, which I do not think we are. We're nothing traditional. Um, and and doing it yourself. Like, what do those options really look like? Um, you know, now there's AI publishing, and like that might work for some people. There's really, you know, all the options that are out there, I mean, except for the truly scam ones, you know, could be valid. There's there's such a like knee-jerk reaction to oh, you're hybrid or oh, you're whatever, or you know, you're you're making people pay. Like, these are valid ways. If you aren't going the traditional route for many various reasons, we can talk about another time. Also, it's very valid to pay someone as a service to do something for you that you could very well do yourself. Um, it's no different than having somebody work on your car. Yeah, you could change your carburetor yourself, but you're likely not going to do that. Precisely. Right. So, you know, you listening to other podcasts and stuff have told me about some things that you've heard people lament about afterwards, having found having picked a publisher.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

Yeah, I mean, definitely. And you know, like like you were just sort of saying to kind of bounce off that, what you see is what you get with us. And we try and be as like open and transparent as possible. I mean, all the costs of everything are listed very clearly. What you get, excuse me, what the what you give for your money, it's all right there. And I've heard feedback from a lot of people that sometimes they have difficulty finding some of the, you know, some sort of details like that with other people, or you know, there are hidden costs, and multiple times, you know, we just did we had a few new clients sign on recently, and they said, Okay, well, what are the hidden costs? I'm like, you know, like because the marketing costs that we mentioned, it said those are very, very small. I mean, a few bucks here or there. If it's anything larger than that, we're gonna tell you, you know, it's just like it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

It's yeah, so people need to look for the the format of it. You need to be very clear on how does this work.

unknown 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

And like Barb talked about, it was all very like figured out yourself, or you should just know. Like she does, you don't know how this works. That's why you're paying someone if you're paying someone else to do it for you. And so you want to know that this whoever you hire to help you with your book is gonna communicate with you, and you want to know that you're not gonna be left in the dark. One thing to know is that it is very normal for them not to be able to share live numbers with you. It's not, it's not really um a software that exists that isn't greatly expensive. And even if it did, it's it's not set up to be shared publicly or with you directly. So that's that's not maybe something that people are hiding. But um, but they should be able to tell you. I've heard from people that, oh, I asked my publisher, you know, how many have I sold, and they can't tell me. Like they should at least be able to tell you, even if they can't give you the live data. Yeah. All of this, so that's all transparency. So you want to make sure if you go to the website and you can't find what is their process, what do they charge? How would it like should be a red flag? Now, if you still submit and then you wait at some point before you go to contract, you should have this information. Nothing should be a question before you sign. And then what else do you want to look for? You know, that support afterwards, so many people publish their book and then they move on to the next.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Yeah, I mean, and I think I think we may have mentioned this in the last podcast too, but it's just like we're as invested in our author's personal stories as we are in their written ones, you know, because it's like we know these people, you know, especially spending all that time at AWP and being able to tell people that walked up to the booth, hey, this person, yeah, this book is about this, and this is what this person is about. Just having that little bit more of a personal relationship has been really great. I mean, I just sat on a meeting with for an hour and a half chit-chatting with one of our authors, talking about life and support and you know, just all sorts of other things in spring and how there's a new fire in our bellies to get out, and we've, you know, a lot of good creative ideas coming out, like like the beautiful tulips that are sprouting in my yard. So it's, you know, and you know, as Barb was saying, you have to kind of like trust your gut a little bit in this and just see because we might be the perfect fit for somebody else, but you know, other people are gonna be like, I don't know. That just girl's a little too intense for me. I'd like something a little more like arm's length or something like that. So it is just finding the right fit, and it's you know, different strokes for different folks, of course.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

Yeah. But I think those big three are really non-negotiable. Communication, oh yeah, transparency and support. Like, what are you getting for that for whatever you're putting into it? And in even if you do traditional, there are things that you should look out for in that hopefully your agent is helping you with those things. But if you I know Kelly mentioned that her publisher was there giving away books, that looks great. That looks amazing. Oh, look how much support I'm getting. But who's taking the money for that? So you really have to pay attention to what you're getting. I know people who've been traditionally published who aren't allowed to go to an event, they aren't allowed to sell a book from their hands. You can't even sign a book and give it to your friend. So that's a lot of control. So if you that's another thing, like I said, I wasn't gonna get into this, but another day we will talk more about the different types of publishing and what you get and don't get with those. But it is something to look out for before you sign off. And I guess that that applies to you like service publishing as well. How much does it cost you to get copies of your own books? Um, because I've heard varying differences on that. You know, yeah we don't charge you much above the cost. I've heard other people say they have to buy their books. At full price. Yeah, at full price. Um if they buy a certain amount, they get a discount. But then I'm like, where do you get your margins? We want you to make money. And where the money is in his sales from your own hands. And so we we would never stop you from getting that.

SPEAKER_05 46:17

So yeah, we've mentioned the royalties aren't really royal, you know, a lot of the time. And it is kind of getting the copies in your hands and you know, putting feet on the street and going out to these events and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Yeah, exactly. So uh I think that's enough on that.

SPEAKER_05 46:34

Of course, if you have deeper questions, please reach out to us.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

Yes, yes, please. Or if you want to know more, if you want to argue with what I said, like go for it, let's go.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

Uh, we don't want to argue.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Well, you can try. I don't know. Polite discussions, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:47

Um so then Besties Corner, huh? So we've had a lot going on with besties, as y'all heard earlier. My bestie was just in here slurping up some water and causing a ruckus. Yeah. And you were just uh babysitting some new little fa feline and I don't know, are turtles?

SPEAKER_04 47:07

What red-footed tortoise. Yeah, tortoise, excuse me. Yeah, that was fun. I'm glad it's over. And my pet sitting days are probably not as grand as my mom's. My mom is like a pet sitter.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't do it either. I get too attached, and I just it's like my life disappears for the animal. Which is why I have the spoiled puppy running around in here.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

Yeah. Um, I think let's, you know, uh our episode is going long here, so do you want to jump right into our story? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

So we have another Beastie Besties. And um Submit yours. Submit yours. Submit yours. And I'm sorry, Jamie and Dan, if I butcher this, but is it Brulee? Brulepti? It's a very beautiful name, but this was submitted to us, and I haven't even looked I haven't read it because we like to be just as surprised as you all are. So surprised? So surprised. Okay, here we go. Okay, so your origin story. How did this story begin? Was it a corporate cubicle cubicle, shared hobby, or a total accident? And they said technically this story began way back in 1996. Hey, watch it there. When I first met my husband, who's also my very best friend. Perhaps more pertinent to the tale, however, our shared midlife crisis began in 2020 amidst the COVID 19 pandemic. Oh yeah, I mean, that seems like ages ago and yet just yesterday. So then, the Wildebeast moment, what is the biggest, scariest, or coolest thing you've tackled together? A business launch, a wild trip, a massive project. Give us some details. And they said, avid travelers and real estate investors. Ooh, fun. We took our combined love of both and dove off the deep end, aka take a leap, together when we purchased our house, sight unseen, in Belize. What? We proceeded to renovate the house together, which was by far the craziest thing we've ever done. I can't even imagine that would be awesome. Belize is beautiful. Renovating a house in a developing country while still living in the United States would have been enough to drive most couples straight to divorce, but somehow it brought us closer during an already crazy time of life, and we even managed to make money by the grace of God when we decided to sell it a few years later. Well, congratulations on that, because I can't even imagine the details of purchasing real estate in another country. So the struggles, what challenges did they face together and how did they shake it up and keep going? Dear Lord, where do I even begin? I love the way she's writing this. We faced just about every challenge you could possibly imagine during a renovation along the way, from having to navigate customs and shipping furniture and home goods across the sea on an actual barge to having tarantulas in our yards, scorpions in the house, and nearly being bitten by one of the deadliest snakes on earth. The entire experience was one unbelievable moment after another, but neither of us regretted it at all. And this is kind of the thing when you say like someone submit pictures. I know, right? Like if you like one of those things where it's like, oh, if this were in a movie, you wouldn't believe it, but real life is even more wacky than movies and just books. Okay, so their inside joke. We referred to the entire timeline of purchasing and reneging the Belize home as our midlife crisis. Most people end up with some sports cars or fall into the traps as infidelity. But we spent our time and money on a crazy Belizean adventure.

SPEAKER_04 50:07

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 50:08

I love it. I love it, I love it. You know, us both being big travelers, like this speaks to our hearts. Yes. So their advice to the herd their secret to a successful entrepreneur or business bestie partnership. They said, you have to fully trust one another and support the decision. Truth. Once a decision is made, there's no backing out. You have to be all in no matter the outcome. I think that's fair, and I think you and I have kind of learned a little bit of that along this this leap we took together. So, yeah, that is, I mean, this whole situation, I couldn't even imagine. Like, living with someone is has its challenges, you know, because you all bring your different ideas and quirks and things into a situation, and then like they said, moving to another country, like Belize and getting furniture shipped there and everything like that. That's awesome. I mean, I would love, I would love. We're gonna need some tips from you guys so we can buy these.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Sounds like a great adventure.

SPEAKER_05 50:59

I know, right? Yeah, I know. It's like when I was in Ecuador, they said, Oh, it's easy to buy a house here and we use your dollar, just come down. It's like, okay, and yeah, I try to speak Spanish, so no, that is an awesome story.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

Yeah. If you would like to share yours with us, we want to hear it. We want to hear from Beastie Besties, whether you're sisters, brother, sister, whether you're best friends, for real, husband, wife, whatever it is, we would like to hear your stories of how it doesn't have to be two of you either. It can be a group of beastie besties. You can be a herd of of beasties.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

Yeah, exactly. But Jamie and Dan, thank you. That's awesome. We'd love to see pictures or hear more about your midlife crisis. Can you show us pictures of your midlife crisis? It sounds like no, that's awesome. But you know, and just like being able to laugh at the mishap sometimes. Like, you know, we all take everything, and rightfully so sometimes, but sometimes you just gotta be able to laugh at yourself and just go like put it on the pile, let's keep moving. Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Well, that is awesome. Thank you, friends, for being with us today. Be yourself, run wild, and take leaps. And don't forget to pen your pages and high five your homie.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

Bye.