New Occupation Unlocked: Program Creator

In today's episode, Hannah and Cheri explore the process to creating a program based on their experience developing Charge Your Mind: Battery Bootcamp. They explore the stages of creating a program, and share their top tips for any aspiring program creators.  

Be sure to follow us on instagram @ots_figuringitout

This podcast is brought to you by Charge Your Mind Program, WonderGlowOT and Joyful Journey OT.

We acknowledge the Wathaurong people as the traditional ownders of the land on which we work and live here in Geelong, Victoria. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of Country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present.

Produced by Hannah Lees

Transcript

Intro + Our 'Qualifications'

Cheri 0:00

Welcome to OT's Figuring It Out. A podcast where two occupational therapists chat about the messy, meaningful, and sometimes hilarious parts of life as OTs.

Hannah 0:10

We're learning, growing, and definitely still figuring it out.

Cheri 0:25

At the end of last year, 2025, we started talking about the program we've developed together, which is called Charge Your Mind. And today we're going to talk more about where Charge Your Mind came from, what actually goes into creating a program or resources, and our tips and tricks for anyone else out there who is interested in starting their own project or program. And yeah. I'm excited. Yes. A bit of a behind the scenes.

Hannah 0:58

Ooh. I thought we could start by going over our credentials or our experience and background in creating resources and programs. This is really our first major one. Yes, yeah. Did you want to go first? Oh, I can do that. I think back to my first year as a new grad OT, and actually I didn't know this at the time, but I have since learned that I was actually getting in trouble because I was spending too much time making new resources either for my the clients or clinicians that I thought would be really useful. Um apparently I should have been doing billable things, sure. Um but that was that was a great start, and now that I run a small clinic, I'm in charge of mostly creating the templates and and resources. Do you enjoy doing it? I do, but I'm not super creative. So I remember as a new grad, I was trying to make an Excel spreadsheet, which I love an Excel spreadsheet, that you could put in the age and area, say self-care for a child, and it would spit out the milestones as a reference. That I could do, but your amazing beautiful resources, those are yours.

Cheri 2:19

I am and have always been very creative, so it comes very naturally to me. When I was working in a private clinic, the OTs had moved on, so there was actually no senior OT, and they hadn't set up any templates or resources for an OT department. Yeah. So I did all that as a new grad. I was like six months out, but I loved doing it, so not complaining. Yes. And creating templates, resources, and like systems. I like having nice structured but also flexible systems is definitely a spin and a glimmer of mine. A spin. A spin, yes.

Hannah 3:01

Tell me more about a spin and a glimmer.

Cheri 3:03

Well, a spin, spin S, well, capital S, lowercase P, capital I, lowercase N stands for special interests. Yeah. So an area or a topic that a neurodivergent person has really intense interest in, and sometimes it can be for like a short period of time or really long term. So for me, I can get really fixated on creating a resource or going with a new idea, and I can hyperfixate it and spend hours doing it and not realize I'm spending so long doing it. But it also like brings me joy, which is what a glimmer is. It's it's something that brings you really intense joy, calm. So some people collect rocks and they like looking at rocks, it brings them comfort, so that's a bit of like a glimmer. So yeah, I I like having a sense of a process to work within to guide me, and that makes me feel comfortable and I guess calm in a way. So I'd I'd already been creating stuff, and then when I went out on my own, I then decided to start providing free and paid resources to the OT community or Allied Health in general, as well as some stuff for families. So yeah, I've been doing that. I actually don't know when I started selling stuff, I'm not sure. Yeah, I think it's been a while.

Hannah 4:35

I know I've benefited from it. The whole clinic has really. Yeah, that's kind of where I've been. Amazing. And so we've worked together to sort of brainstorm the steps that you might go through for a maybe not a resource, you might do some of these for a resource, but the bigger program like your mind.

Cheri 4:59

Yeah, and because obviously, I mean a program is much more bigger and intense than a resource. Yeah. But we kind of like brain-dumped what we think it where it starts and kind of the process for developing like a really comprehensive program. And it all did start when I re-jigged a new or a current program, but then I started adding in bits and pieces from other programs, so I was technically changing it, yeah, and was like this is something that everyone would benefit from, other OTs would benefit from, and would be nice to provide that to the community. So that's kind of where it started, yeah. And I guess the process from there was we had our fun stage.

1. The Fun Stage

Cheri 5:50

Oh, we like stages.

Hannah 5:52

Did you want to chat about what was the fun stage? Oh, I can. I was thinking just quickly before we jump into fun stage, though. Really, before any of this happened, the first thing is identifying uh something that's missing or a a problem that you got a solution to or want to find a solution to. But after you've done that, the fun stage.

Cheri 6:16

Yeah, knowing what's what's already out there and what's missing to then because obviously that's gonna be the the core of why you're making this progress.

Hannah 6:26

Yeah, it's not something out of nothing, yes, yeah. But first stage, fun stage, brainstorming, the ideas, the the fun bits, the names. If you're gonna have characters in the group, we are fans of analogies, or I am at least. Yes, yes, I think we are.

Cheri 6:43

It's gonna be themed, has to be consistent.

Hannah 6:46

Yes, and that was a that was a while. It did take a lot of time, yeah.

Cheri 6:51

Yes.

Hannah 6:52

I enjoyed it though. Yeah, it was easily of it.

Cheri 6:55

Yes, it was good, and I think it even then as we went through making the program, there was probably some stuff that we shifted and changed so that all flew flew flowed, flowed is what I was meant to say, flowed better, but yeah, it was obviously the that was the easy part, yeah.

Hannah 7:14

And we've broken this into stages, but really that that happened throughout as well.

Cheri 7:20

Yes, yes, yeah.

Hannah 7:21

It's not a a stage that just ends and then you're finished.

Cheri 7:25

Yeah, yeah. But after the fun stage,

2. The Research Stage

Cheri 7:29

the research stage, not as fun, but you know.

Hannah 7:33

Some people might enjoy it, might be their glimmer.

Cheri 7:35

Well, it it very well could be, yes. So we sat down and looked at okay, well, these are the programs that are currently out there, and these are what we're basing our like our clinical reasoning, essentially. Sure. This is why we're making it and where that information's coming from. So I guess as well, we were also thinking about well, what would our clients benefit from right now? And I think that was a huge part of it. Yeah. It's like our experience with clients and those families' experiences, what was missing from what we're currently doing or using in terms of the programs that our program could provide.

Hannah 8:18

Yeah, and we are both lucky that we are supervisors. So we also get stories from our supervisees.

Cheri 8:26

Yes.

Hannah 8:26

But if someone maybe wasn't a supervisor, at least talking to other colleagues to get that sort of information would be a very good idea.

Cheri 8:36

Yes. Absolutely. Hearing real life lived experiences is what's going to really guide what you're making. Because if it's not actually something that's happening, well then who's going to be benefiting from it?

Hannah 8:51

Yeah, you could make something beautiful and amazing and technically uh perfectly evidence-based. But if you haven't got the audience and the families in mind, yeah, if if it's not actually something that people need or want, then it's probably not really gonna kick off.

Cheri 9:09

Yeah, so finding that balance.

Hannah 9:10

Yes, the the lived experience and the uh technical research evidence. Yes, yeah.

Cheri 9:17

And I know I know we looked also a bit into the adult, I think what is that adult coaching model?

Hannah 9:24

There were a few models, but that was a lot of people.

Cheri 9:26

Yeah, you know, we we reflected on what theories, what models, what research are we actually basing our program on and how we're approaching it. So we've used evidence in that way as well. And you know, everything's within OT frameworks as well. I can't remember what one we've mentioned in our book. There's a few. I know I think we've mentioned the POP as a is a con. But you know, all of these things are reflected in the program we've developed, even though we're not directly saying, oh, what's the person, you know, doing, what's the environment doing? But yeah, you know, it is reflected in that. We've made sure that we've have those sound underpinnings. Yeah. You can see the lens through our lens we use.

Hannah 10:14

And I think that's also where the fun stage and the research stage come together. Because in the fun stage, we also brainstormed, well, what is this based on? Um, we identified very early on that this was something that needed to be neurodiversity affirming. Yes. That actually was number one priority. And so then in the research stage, making sure we've got those principles outlined, yeah. We know how we're going to structure this or uh what yeah, what's going to guide the next stage?

Cheri 10:45

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And then, yeah, the next stage was program

3. The Program Development Stage

Cheri 10:50

development.

Hannah 10:51

That was big.

Cheri 10:53

That was long.

Hannah 10:55

Have we finished that stage? Maybe never.

Cheri 10:59

And I think this is where I think you and I are a bit of perfectionists. What? No. And I think this is why it was so long. Yeah. When I actually think about it, I think we made it and then we remade it, to be honest. And then maybe again, honestly. Yes, yeah. Yeah. I actually don't really remember. Do you remember much about what we did at that stage?

Hannah 11:23

You and I, with our background in creating things, I think probably merged what should have been two stages into one. Yeah, we did, yeah. But we definitely, you know, outlined our program is going to be into lessons. So we outlined what those lessons would be and sort of what topics were covered.

Cheri 11:42

Yes. We had a document where we just really outlined everything, didn't we? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then we moved everything into Canva.

4. The Creative Stage

Hannah 11:50

Yes. Yes. Tip one, if you're gonna make a program, Canva. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know how else you would do it, but Canva.

Cheri 11:58

Can Canva is my soulmate.

Hannah 12:01

Best friends.

Cheri 12:02

Yes, I don't know where I'd be without Canva. I absolutely love it. Most of the time. Most of the time. But yeah, we really broke things down and then broke things down again. Yeah. And we kept refining it so that it made sense.

Hannah 12:18

Yeah, absolutely. And this was the stage in my life, not just in developing a program where I really started practicing and deliberately thinking about doing things imperfectly, and then you can refine them later.

Cheri 12:34

Yes, yeah. We definitely had to let go of some stuff, and we still have to. Yeah. We're still learning of having to let things, it's got to be good enough. Is it good enough? If it's good enough, put it out there.

Hannah 12:46

Yes, yeah. Otherwise, we're never gonna get past stage one. Yes, exactly. Which I think is why it took so long, as in like two years. Yeah, and it could have been longer if we hadn't gone, all right, enough.

Cheri 12:58

Yes, yeah. I think it got to the point where we're like, wow, we've been doing this for so long and no one's benefiting from it. Yeah, no, literally, just you and I. Yeah, literally, just like you, I and anyone else that we supervise that we can pass that information on to. Yeah, they were the only ones benefiting from it, which was not the point. No, exactly. So I know I mentioned we moved everything into Canberra and that's when we really started visually structuring things. Yeah, and what does visually should it look like? For me, that was easy. It was time consuming, but easy. I don't know about you.

Hannah 13:34

Uh no, I can come up with ideas, I can brainstorm every day of the week. Yeah, um, and then I will very kindly ask you to make it look nice.

Cheri 13:44

Yeah, I think because I picture everything as a system, as a process diagram visually. Yeah, that's how my brain processes information. And so that's probably why I find it easy. I feel like it's already in your brain. You just have to get it on the page. Yeah, sometimes it can be a bit annoying though, because I have a really specific way I want to present the information, but then I can't find an easy way to do the visual, like on Canva, for example, and then I get really frustrated because I can't find what I want. And then I'm like, what's the best way for me to get it out of my brain onto the screen? No, I love

5. The Trial Stage

Cheri 14:22

that.

Hannah 14:23

All right, now can I talk about the trial stage? Now we can talk about the trial stage. I think for me, the trial stage was a bridge or a safety net between okay, we've got a program, it's ready to be seen, but I'm not ready to share it with everyone. So we'll share it with some people. Yes, yeah.

Cheri 14:44

We want we yeah, we kind of wanted to know how it was going to be received. Kind of like a glimpse into if we did release it, what would people think and say?

Hannah 14:53

Yes. Is this even useful? Yes, the two years been a waste of time. Let's find out. Answer is no.

Cheri 15:00

Um, thankfully, yeah. We we advertised and invited people we knew, our friends, family, current clients, who we thought one would benefit from it, but also two would have the capacity to be able to provide that feedback as well. We didn't want to add pressure or make an expectation for people. Yeah. And then they gave us some really great feedback.

Hannah 15:27

Some amazing feedback.

Cheri 15:28

Yeah.

Hannah 15:29

I remember saying I needed to stop reading it because I was gonna get a big fan. That was big actually. That was eye-opening to me that something from our brains could be so impactful.

Cheri 15:40

Yeah, and because it was a physical copy at the time as well, we had it printed, and then seeing it printed, that was a really big step, and then sending it to people and then them sending it back with written feedback on there. It was oh, this is crazy. This is real.

Hannah 15:55

Yes. So then we that was uh probably one of the shortest stages. I would say so. I think. Yeah. Because then we uh the next stage as

6. The Refinement Stage

Hannah 16:05

well was not too bad, the refinement stage, implementing that feedback.

Cheri 16:10

Yes, because I mean there actually wasn't that much people really suggested that they would want changed. I mean, it was a small group of people we had um review it, but even then there wasn't much. No, people generally were just praising it. Yeah, I think there was just like a couple of little things here and there.

Hannah 16:28

Yeah. And then the financial commitment. Yes, our first financial investment to pay an artist to make us some unique visuals, a little bit less canva-y.

Cheri 16:41

Yeah, yes. We wanted it to be really I mean, originally I tried having a go at it. Yes. Which was alright, but then I was like, hang on, I can't that that took a long time. Yeah. And I was like, I actually can't do this as well. Like, that's just too much of my time. And doing like digital art is not something I'm super skilled in. So then it was just too hard, it was too hard, too hard basket. Yeah, I can get someone else to do it, and they will do it better. So that was really good, and I I love that everything was on brand, yes, and consistent, all of our icons for a lot of our diagrams, all our characters, our logo, our branding was they she did all that, so it's one art. It was so nice to then put it into our workbook into the actual project C.

Hannah 17:35

I don't know about you, but having done two years of program development on Canva, I can see ads in the community and go, you made that on Canva. Yes, I see it from a mile away. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

Cheri 17:51

No, I mean for my for my other business when I like sell my resources, like everything's on Canva, like none of it's custom made. I'm very proud, is that the right word?

Hannah 18:02

Of our art style. Um, it's not ours, of the final product. Let's say that.

Cheri 18:07

Yes, how everything came together.

Hannah 18:10

And that brings us to the stage that we are in now.

Cheri 18:13

Yes, marketing.

7. The Marketing Stage

Cheri 18:15

Oh I tell you what, I have completely underestimated marketing.

Hannah 18:23

There's a reason that marketing firms exist. Yes, because I can't do it.

Cheri 18:29

The the time that goes into marketing, like even doing like social media posts and like marketing that way, even doing like lead magnets, so when people you have the freebie on your website that's from a paid resource, the idea is that okay, here's a free part of that resource, they download it, they like it, they want to the whole thing, so they go and pay for the paid one. Even that, even setting that up on a website, there's just it's just so much. And that's assuming you've got a website.

Hannah 19:08

Designing a website is also its own job. Oh my gosh, yes. I've now designed three. I think I've done two, and it was two too many.

Cheri 19:20

Yeah, websites alone. So much time, so much effort. And you're paying, you're not getting paid for it, you're actually paying to have a website.

Hannah 19:31

Yes. First impressions are important, so that website needs to be right too. Yes. So we have started working with a marketing company out of necessity.

Cheri 19:44

That that was absolutely required. Yeah, because we even posting on social media, we we couldn't keep up with it. I mean, I have several other uh accounts that I'm trying to stay on top of. I was gonna say.

Hannah 20:00

And what matters to us too, this program. We don't want it to just be a side project that we post to occasionally, yeah, and that it's like just out there and if you stumble upon it, great.

Cheri 20:11

Yeah, like we we want people to know about it.

Hannah 20:13

Yeah, we know the impact that our program can make. People have told us now it's our duty to share it, and so getting some help to do that I think is a great idea.

Cheri 20:27

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I don't know about you, but I feel like it's taken so much pressure and weight off me. Yes, having them on board. Yep. Otherwise, this would have to be our full-time job, and maybe one day, yeah, maybe one day. But I mean, you and I we both still do clinical work, we see clients, we run businesses as well, so we've got like all that other stuff that we have to do that we don't get paid for but need time to do, like invoicing, service agreements, you know, all that jazz. And then we have what else do we do?

Hannah 21:03

Personal lives. Yeah, yes, yes, a big one. Do we?

Cheri 21:08

Maybe that's on the side. Personal lives is on the well, I feel like at the moment my personal life is on the side. Oh, there's just so much, yeah. So much that goes into it, but yeah, that's kind of the steps and stages we've gone through to get to where we are.

Hannah 21:25

Yeah, been quite the journey, but we have learned a lot along the way. Oh, yes.

Hannah and Cheri's Top Tips

Hannah 21:32

And we've got some tips for anyone interested. Yes, absolutely. We might almost rapid fire them, I reckon.

Cheri 21:40

Yep. So tip one is don't try to reinvent the wheel. Figure out what's already out there, what's already available, but what's missing, because then that is what is probably needed. Yes.

Hannah 21:54

Especially in this, I don't know when it stops becoming new, but it still feels new, um, and you're Diversity affirming movement. Yes. You know what existed that was not neurodiversity affirming?

Cheri 22:06

Yeah.

Hannah 22:06

That you can re-jig. Yes. Yeah. Because that's where we started. Exactly. A huge part of it.

Cheri 22:14

Yeah.

Hannah 22:14

Yep. Second tip. This can be tricky, but I think it's important to decide where your boundaries are and just go. In terms of the project as well as your time commitment. But you can't do everything for everyone. So who is this program for specifically? And narrow it down. What method or form is this program going to be in? What's your audience who what's your topic? Be specific.

Cheri 22:43

Yeah.

Hannah 22:44

Or you will never get anything done.

Cheri 22:46

Yeah. Because we had to decide is this going to be a book that people download? Yep. Is it going to be a print copy? Is it going to be both? Is it the therapists or parents or children? Yeah. Who can actually use it? Can both use it? Yeah. So it's like there's a lot of decisions you have to make quite early on because then that changes your end product. It yeah. Yeah.

Hannah 23:09

You need to know what your boundaries are, what your scope is.

Cheri 23:11

The third tip is being open to adapting your idea and just going with the flow. Yeah. Which we certainly did. We developed a book and then realized hang on, this isn't the first step. And then we developed another book, which is Battery Bootcamp, which is what we have available now.

Hannah 23:30

Exactly. And if you're going to work with somebody else, which I think is a an amazing idea. I can't even imagine trying to make something like this by yourself. But that's two brains, two ideas, two expectations. So being open to that too. Find someone you like. Yeah. Tip four is as scary as it might be, being open to feedback, having other people read it. I know my mum was probably the first person I let read it as a proofreader, an editor.

Cheri 24:02

Yeah.

Hannah 24:02

Sometimes she gave me feedback I didn't like, but I just ignore it. But you've got to be you've got to be open to it because if it's gonna help other people, you're gonna need to read it.

Cheri 24:12

And like we're I say we're one person, but like you're one person, I'm one person. Yes, our brains work in their own way. So having other people's perspectives is really important, and being able to make sure that whatever you're developing can be received by different types of people. Exactly. Nicely said. Tip five? Are we on five? I think so. Five. You are only one jelly bean in a jar. You don't have to know everything, you don't have to do it all, you don't have to have all the skills. Use what you already have, and if you need to outsource. So, like when when I was saying like I started doing the artwork myself, yes, with our characters, with Buzz. And I was like, great, it looks good. I did one, and then I was like, nah, the end, and then I was like, yeah, I can't do it all. I'm doing everything else. This is something that someone else can do for me.

Hannah 25:15

Yeah, very important, especially in marketing, unless you know what you're doing. Yeah. Last tip is just to consider the financial and time commitments. Time is money, so consider what you are giving up to put time into this project. I have full faith that any project or program that you are developing is worth that time, but be considerate of that. You are still important. Yeah. And then the financial commitments, what some of your decisions we were talking about, digital versus print or audience, some will cost more than others.

Cheri 25:49

Yeah.

Hannah 25:50

So being mindful of that.

Cheri 25:51

And like stuff isn't cheap, and obviously, everything we've outsourced has been quite big investments from our own money. And being able to be realistic and be like, okay, well, can I actually afford to pay for XYZ? Yeah. Um, and if you can't, that's fine. Just getting it out there, I think. Yeah, because you can always change it later on down the track. Like, yeah, if later on down the track, when you've got the money and you've built up that audience, you can then hire an an artist to do the artwork for it. Yeah. It's not permanent. No, exactly. And I think that's something we've had to let go.

Hannah 26:32

Is it is good enough. Yeah. Just a quick note to say we are not financial advisors either. This is common sense financial. No, this and this is our experience. Yes. This is what we've done. I would love to hear if anyone does have the seed of an idea for a program or project. If you feel confident, comfortable sharing it.

Cheri 26:52

Yes, I'd love to hear what other people are making because there's some things that pop up in my social media, and I'm like, oh, that's such a good resource. Yes. And at the back of mine, I'm like, I should have made that. No, but I'm so appreciative of like everyone else out there. And I think this is a benefit of our modern age, is that yeah, we can share so many great resources so much more easily now, and they're so much more accessible. They which means like more neurodiversity affirming resources. And a lot of these things are made by people with lived experience as well. So hats off to them for having the time and energy to make something.

Hannah 27:31

Yeah. So whether it's yours or someone else's, yeah. Tell us what's out there, what's great. Comment and we will check it out. Well, thank you for joining us today. Hopefully, you've gained some ideas or some knowledge on creating a program.

Cheri 27:45

Yes. And if you do have any questions about what it takes to create a program or what we've done, feel free to reach out to us. Yeah, we'd love to chat. Yeah. Awesome.

Hannah 27:56

Till next time.

Cheri 27:57

Till next time.