Episode 12

"Another hour of your life you aren't getting back."

You’re watching Season 2, Episode 12 of Aggressively Casual. We built this for the people who are tired of corporate entities pushing advert-heavy content with skewed ratings.

This isn’t a tech startup or an esports brand ; it’s a group chat with structure.

In this episode, we’re leaning into our core beliefs: openness, honesty, and zero time-wasting. If you’ve ever ranted for an hour in Discord about the latest remake, you’re home. Pull up a chair, skip the "let’s dive in" bollocks , and get ready for some dry honesty.

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We are Press X to Skip. We cover gaming, film, and pop culture with zero interest in objectivity, SEO-chasing, or corporate polish.
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Real Talk: No fake excitement, no fake rage, and absolutely no "Top 10" lists for things we don't care about.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

God, you gotta you gotta love making changes between shows, right? Isn't that the greatest thing ever?

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Well, you know, streaming. Streaming is one of those things where failure is always an option.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I mean, I I have my I I went and redid my entire audio setup a couple weeks ago because I was tired of having to like push a button over here, to turn a knob over here, to do something over here. Right? And I'm like, fuck it, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make it simple. And it works. When it works, it works great. It just needs to work all the time. And my favorite thing is everybody going, well, it has to be something you're doing. And I'm like, no, I've literally followed every video, every tutorial, I've talked to the fucking CEO of both of these products, and they're like, yeah, we and they're like, yeah, this is a weird outlier thing. I'm like, of course it is. Of course it is. It's me.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Suddenly my chat is going through the system and not the chat like it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

So why is Discord over here, not over there? Yeah, so the beacon, the new one should be here on the 24th. Oh, good. Hopefully that fixes these issues. If not, I'm gonna have to find a different solution because this is not tendable long term. I hate it. The guy's been very helpful. The the dev that I've talked to has been very helpful. Um, and we got deep into this. I mean, we were finished assigning assigning prior process priorities to specific cores.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yeah, I mean I mean to to their credit, like Beacon have been pretty like like like they have really kind of gone at least at least from like the outside looking in, right? They have really gone above and beyond what I thought they would ever do.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

It's still frustrating because uh at at times like, well, the problem's obviously in your system, and I'm like, no, the problem is your device. And and I've been fairly staunch on that from the very beginning. That I didn't have a problem until I plugged in your device. So, and when I unplug your device, all my problems go away. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Um But like I said, to their credit, like them them even taking the time to do that is something that not a lot of companies would do.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

When I unplug, when I when I unplug the device, the problems go away. Yeah with Windows 11, not so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Well, fair, fairly.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

And they also gave me a new one, which they didn't have to do because this one is out of warranty. Um I do appreciate it, and I hope that it works. I really do, because I like the product. I really do. I like it. It's easy to it's fairly easy to use.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, same. I mean, I mean, I I I I always enjoyed beacon products. I I mean I'm people are like, oh, well, you know, beacon and elgato are the same thing. I'm like, eh, yes and no. They do the same thing in different ways, slightly, you know, and and really like everybody a lot of a lot of content creators, you know, really, really love Elgato products. And don't get me wrong, I own a bunch of them. I'm talking into one right now, there's one on my desk, there's one back here. Like, I enjoy their stuff. It's alright. But you also have to understand that like I needed a quick problems with their stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Well, and for me, it's like right, and for me, it's like I needed a quick solution like that day in the case of like my mic, I needed a new mic that day, and I needed a new lighting solution that day, and oh, Best Buy happened to have these.

unknown 3:26

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Literally, why I got it.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I am, however, I will I will say that Wavelength 3.0 is ass.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

3.0 is a mess, and I'm I'm really uh off topic for a second. Uh the 3.0 is a mess. Not really.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Because it's it's still used for a lot of gaming. Yeah, so it's not really off topic. But yeah, but it's not true. You don't have a device at all. And the new one is supposed to be open. So it doesn't even see the devices.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Well, and well, and and and and 3.0, I mean I mean, I remember the first set that I used 3.0, it literally hardlocked my machine. Yeah. Like I was I I was streaming and I was talking to you, and all of a sudden, my entire mission, my memory usage shot to 97%, and it hardlocked my rig. And the the worst of it is, is like I run a two-pc system to avoid that shit happening.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

And there was no explanation for them on why that was a thing, you know, no reason, this, that, the other thing. And I was like, okay. Not helpful. Not helpful. But but it it is what it is. They seem to have fixed it because they did put out a hot uh hot fix a couple of days later, and I haven't had the issue since. I do still occasionally get the weird crash. Um Stu mentioned the weird crash to me, and I said, Yeah, that's kind of what I experienced. I do still occasionally get the weird crash or hitch, but then again, that could also be because I stream my gaming PC to my streaming PC using Moonlight and Sunshine. That could also be part of it, but I I I just I I haven't but I I haven't caught it in the act to see which one is lagging. Every time I notice it, it's usually a network.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Three different iterations of it now, and it has yet to actually work.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

So it's whatever. It is what it is. So we've got a lot of things to talk about tonight. Um, do we want to talk about the good things or the bad things first?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Or use the company. There's a list.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

All right, if you want to if you want to if you want to run the list, let's let's run the list in order. Um the first one that you put in here is um how much do you trust sponsored videos? Um, you did. What what what what what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Help me. This is the thing. How many times we were we were literally just talking about this. Okay, I'll be down later. Um that there's been so many times where it it's been proven now where they're getting sponsored for good reviews. So after a while, I just I'm like, if anybody's like, if if if you're reviewing whatever, and they're like, by the way, you know, we'll say if we're reviewing Marathon, because it's a hot topic right now, Bungie's Bungie sponsored this video. My trust level will go down on your video. You know, even if you're like, we can say whatever we want, and I'm not against sponsored videos, I'm really not. Um it's sponsored by War Thunder, everybody else does. Uh right.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Hey War Thunder!

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Hey! Hey, hi but but it just it calls into question things now because it's happened so much. You know, again, there are people out there like, yes, they sponsored this, but I'm allowed to say whatever I want. But then when they go on to give it an absolutely glowing review as at the time, you start to question, yeah, but are you really saying what you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Right. Well, it's like it's I I remember like when Destiny 2 came out, right? And every review was glowing. And I'm like, something feels off here because I don't think we're playing the same game. Because I had I I I enjoyed what we got with Destiny 2. But I'm like, there are things that feel weird, and none of them were mentioned in any of these reviews. Come to find out that a lot of those reviews um either didn't either A didn't get to that point in the game and just gave the campaign a glowing review, or B were paid off.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Right. And so it happens so much now, the question becomes how much do you trust a sponsored video? But at the same time, content creators, you know, especially when you get to the point where you're doing this for a job, you often need the sponsors to help keep the lights on.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Right. Well, but but but but here's the thing. Here's the thing, right? There are there there are two types of sponsored videos that that that that that seem to be prevalent these days, right? There is X company sponsored a video about X product, right? Or it's I'm making a video in the sphere of X thing, so they sponsored this video, but they're not the focus of the video. The second the second type is pretty okay in my book, right? Like is a like you know, or whatever. But the first type is where I start to look at it and go, hmm.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Right. If if you sponsor the video and I'm doing a review of your game, it's a little suspect.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Is that my whole point, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah. Yeah. Fair. Fair. Um, I I but yeah, I I I think that like like I said, I I tend to take a lot of that stuff with a grain of salt, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Mostly because, you know, at the same time, you have to be like, yeah, okay, you've you've gone from reviewing to cheerleading, or you've gone from reviewing to just shitting on it.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Right. Now, granted, that there there are there are a few uh uh content creators I watch, like uh uh like uh Felhammer for 3D printing stuff, who literally has said, you know, a company can fucking tell me uh a company can send me a product, I'm going to shit all over it if I think it's bad, to the point where he actually went on record, uh, a month, a week, a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago now, talking about how he won't work with Creality anymore because Creality got caught asking him to edit his reviews.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, yeah. That's happening a lot. I've seen a lot of creators in the 3D printing space talk about Creality, and which is a shame because Creality products are usually pretty solid. Are they the best? No. No. Are they the worst? No, not no. They are a very solid, yeah, middle of the road product. I have two, for fuck's sake. I have a I have a Hallett one and I have an Ender 3 Pro.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yep. Well, and the worst of it is, is like the thing of it is like with with with 3D printing, especially with Creality, right? Um, a lot of companies since uh uh since uh Bamboo Lab have kind of taken over the like mainline uh part of 3D printing in the in the space, right? Are trying to be Bamboo Lab. And you just kind of can't. Um because you're chasing a success that you will never achieve by trying to copy their products.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

It's the same thing we talked about in the gaming system. Oh, yeah. Don't chase wow. Right. Don't chase it just you're never gonna catch it, right? Right. Um but yeah, I mean now to be fair, I'll sit here and tell you that Creality products are usually pretty solid. But I really want a Saturn.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yep. I would love to get one of the Saturn 4Ks.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yep. My buddy's got one, and ooh boy, I oh I want it.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

And and the good thing is the quality you get out of home 3D printing now has games workshop and other companies absolutely running scared. Oh yeah. I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

But I mean, dude, you've you've seen the stuff that I've printed for the for for for my Star Wars droids and uh and all that, right? And and I mean, like that the e even five years ago, that quality where all I have to do is take it off, take it off, sand and paint. Well, you know, right, yeah, yeah. I mean wasn't happening. So it's it's insane how far that space has come.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

You've seen, Mio, the the the Hallett One's a 2K printer. Yeah. Which is, to be fair, for the most part, plenty of resolution. I just want more. Um and you've seen the stuff I print and paint off of that. Yeah, I do. Now the Ender 3, you're gonna have to do some work. It's an older printer for one thing. Yeah. At this point, the Ender 3 is a venerable old printer that used to be uh everybody's first entry into larger printers.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

It was mine.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

It was mine, and I still have it. Uh but I don't do a lot of FDM anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

So most of the stuff is most of my stuff and when it comes to printing, yeah. When it comes to printing, most of my stuff is FDM just because I do a lot of large-scale, you know, droid and cosplay stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

That's just it, though. You're doing stuff that record that is better and cheaper to do on an FDM printer. Exactly. Whereas I'm doing miniatures, bigotures, so to speak. I'm not doing large-scale models, or else it goes to the Ender 3, you know. Um which is also how I found out my thermistor was broken because I was actually trying to pr to print a um don't at me. This was years ago. I've had this thing for a long time. I was trying to print a large-scale Hogwarts. Nice. Um and it kept sounding the alarm, the overheat alarm. And you're like, um, I think I I think the problem is my thermistor's burnt and I need to replace it. I have it. I just haven't got off my butt to do it. It's like it's like unsolder two wires, solder back two wires. Done! Um but it's getting to those two wires that takes like an hour. So, you know. Right. Um But anyway, uh I would that's the thing. But I've seen a lot of that in Creal, the Creality space. Creality's shot themselves in the foot, basically.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah. Um to the point where the only promotion I'm currently seeing that is positive for uh Creality printers are live streams on TikTok where they're trying to sell you ones out of the TikTok shop.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

And listen, man.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

The products are fine. Don't misunderstand me. The products themselves are absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

M for the most part. Some of the newer some of the newer ones are they've got some they got some problems that Creality really needs to fix, and I all and I only think they'll be able to fix them um on the software side at this point, and they seem kind of unwilling to do that or unable to do that. I don't know which one it is. That being said, you put another topic in here um about uh arcades and uh uh uh what what explain?

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I saw an interesting thing the other day about arcades and what actually killed them. Okay Yes, I realize that there are some arcades still around. We are nowhere near the height of the arcade mania days.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

No. There used to you when I was a kid, you couldn't walk 30 feet some some fucking malls without hitting an arcade.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting an arcade. Um and the gist of it was what killed them was Street Fighter 2, but specifically Street Fighter 2 for the Nintendo. Because at that point, before that, because Street Fighter 2 for the Nintendo was the first home game that looked almost and played almost exactly like the arcade game. Yeah. It was the first one. Really. Uh Mortal Kombat came shortly after that um and then it just spiraled out of there, and then it really died when we got to Tekken 3 because the technology had got to point. You can look at Tekken 3 arcade versus I think it's the PS2 Tekken 3, and I will defy you to tell me which one is which.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Well, and the other interesting thing is that is that after a while, the people who were doing these arcade these arcade box uh titles started bringing those titles, those direct ports of those titles to Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

I could practice at home.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

And then that just spiraled and as the technology got better and better, and more and more of those games started porting to consoles. And it just it just it why do I well you know it it no longer becomes a good investment for an arcade to spend thousands of dollars on a cabinet that they're not gonna make their money back on.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Exactly. Which sucks.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I love the arcade. I used to work in one, I worked in one for a while, it was best.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I loved that. I loved I love the arcade. Hell hell, I I we we have one here. It's uh uh I and Trish and I still go every every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

The problem is now most of them are all just it's all fighting games. And I'm like, I that's I'm not really interested in that. I you know I played the Seamus out of Dragon's Lair, though.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah and Seamus, Seamus, Seamus likes the Halo one that they have with the arcade here.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

It's and to be fair, it's actually Which is that is like art imitating life imitating art right now. Right? Right you put Halo back in the arcade, and you know, you know you have video games as arcade cabinets.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Or or or uh uh what's the other one? The the the uh the guitar hero arcade cabinets with exclusive songs to get you to go and play in the arcade.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um but yeah, that that that that that that doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

And that's pretty much the gist of what what actually killed it, because it killed the business paradigm, is what happened.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Killed the business model.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Exactly. Alright, now uh we get to move on to our favorite punching bag. I mean video game shop pack. Um Marathon. Um and specifically, um, it's been a couple of weeks, you know, the dust has kind of settled around it for the most part. Um the question that I posed is does it look intriguing after a couple of weeks of hot fixes and updates and and now that the end of the game is kind of either out or coming out, you know, does it look more intriguing? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Um the answer to that question for me, and I can only answer for me, right, is a little of column A, a little of column B. Hey, same. It's more entertaining or more interesting to watch players playing it now. Yes. As they figure out a little bit of things of go that are going on. Yeah. But it's also for me, and I'm gonna point to the name of the show aggressively casual. A little on the hardcore side for me. Um that being said, I guess if somebody gifted me a copy or I could get it ultra cheap, I might give it another I'm not gonna give it another run um just because there are some things that look intriguing. They've done some balancing. I mean, I'll I'll give Bungie credit on one thing, is they do seem to be actively working on it and trying to improve it and and balance it better to what the community uh wants, not necessarily what they need. And maybe maybe and then they have to walk a line here because you can go too far.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, right. Well, and the thing of the thing of it is, right, is like you a lot of companies right now, um, for fear of losing a player base, are afraid to say no. Sure. Right? And and that's I don't think Bungie's ever had that problem. I don't think Bungie's ever had that problem. But that being said, I can see where if the if if engagement, and I'm I'm I'm not going to say player numbers, because we don't we we are not bungee. We cannot say we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Well one player numbers. Everything that I've seen indicates that the game is PC heavy.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Right, sure. But one, we don't know we don't know the full player number story. Two, we don't know what Bungie considers to be um you know good player numbers or whatever, whatever, right? So I'm saying engagement, right? If a player engagement tanks below a certain level, at what point do they have a panic button they can push or a ripcord they can pull to where where it's a well the community wants XYZ, let's give it a I think Marathon was their panic button, so to speak. Yeah, yeah, I I I I would say.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

If if marathon tanks, and that's still an if, because again, again, we don't have metrics that they want. Um I have to think though that these aren't quite the metrics that they want. Um that they would prefer to cross that 100k threshold on a regular basis, and they have yet to do it. So um with the game being live, the server slam did pass that threshold for a bit. Right. Right quickly fell off. Yeah. But they did not pass that when it went live. So not that I recall, I could be wrong. Right, but so so oh right, but so so beyond that, then, like and then the real question becomes how many how many of those players are continuing to spend money in the cash shop? Yeah, because they've already altered they that was the first thing they did was change the cash shop because people were complaining.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Um so that's the key to this sort of game is you've got to keep people spending money in the cash shop, but keep the money coming in past the initial $40 price point, which is already paywalling every to a point where on a in a niche market that's normally not paywall um or that is often not paywall. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. Um this interestingly enough tails into the next thing. Now my feed is just full of articles that say, Is Marathon a success? I think the answer is it's too early to tell.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Absolutely. This is a live service title. This is not a It's a single player game. It's not a co-op game. This is a live service title where success is driven and told in long-term stories. Right? Again, long-term player engagement.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

But how long can they sustain, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Um, well, and well, and and and you see all of these armchair experts on fucking Twitter and YouTube and whatever and TikTok and whatever saying, well, the game can't, you know, Bungie. Bungie needs X shut the fucking Bungie needs, you know, X numbers to be a success. Bungie needs this. Bungie did. I'm like, really? So you work for Bungie and you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Right, you work for Bungie and you know this stuff, huh?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Because um Because none of us. We can speculate. Say it's speculation, but you all state this shit like it's fact, and it drives me baddy, right? You have no idea. None idea what Bungie's success numbers actually are. You have no idea. Right. But like but but the the the point is that nobody knows. Nobody besides whoever the fuck is directing the game knows what success is or isn't. We can all sit here and speculate, but speculation is not fact.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

It's not fact, right. And and you know, I think is Marathon a success? You know what? I'd have to say moderately.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

I mean, they launched a video game and a bunch of people play it, so right.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

You know, it's it's it's a moderate success. Um it it it is not a blockbuster hit by any stretch of the imagination. Um that would be Slay the Spire 2, by the way, uh, for comparison. Um I do think that a lot of their player base is just cannibalized out of Destiny 2. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Although I had some pretty big uh extraction streamers now picking it up.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, yeah. I I I I I I caught like a guy who who does a lot of extraction shooter stuff a couple of days ago. It was his first time playing the game, and I can't remember who it is, so I'm terribly sorry. I caught it on Twitch and I was like, well, I'll see what this is like. And he was having a really good time, but also had similar criticisms to what you and I had. And this was after the nerfs they made to the NPCs. So take that for what you will. This is a guy who plays um plays extraction shooter games pretty much exclusively. That's his chosen category to stream, and he is still saying that some of the NPCs are you know fun. So it is what it is. That being said, um in it's very much a hardcore game, I think, too.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

It's more hardcore, it's far more hardcore than Arc Raiders, for example.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Well, well, but look, here here's well and and and and and and and here here's the thing about that were your expectations expected. Well, right, but but here's here here's the thing about that, right? Is that Bungie, it it that may that may have backfired on Bungie a little bit. Only because only because, right, and it's only only because, right? Like it or not, and I think we may have mentioned this before, but Arc Raiders is the template now. Right? Yeah, R Craters are indifferent. Right, wrong or indifferent. Rc Raiders is the template now. I still play Arc. I play ARC at least once a week with my buddy Brian out in California. That is that that is measurable engagement, right? That is quantifiable engagement. I still give them engagement at least once a week, if not more. And for that in any live service game is considered a massive success. For the game to have been out for six months, and you still have and you still have people who don't really play the type of game logging in at least once a week, that's a massive success. So Bungie catering, and I and maybe they weren't maybe they weren't intentionally catering, but this is what happened, right? Here's the thing they ended up catering.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

If you do want to look at player charts, our creators. Right now. Yeah. 120,000 people playing. Right. Marathon. Destiny 2. 7,000. Right. Hang on, I got one more here. Slay the Spire 2. 185,000 people play. You know. So what does that tell us? Not a lot, really, to be honest. Uh nothing concrete. And again, because we don't know the numbers that Bungie needs. Um, and now here's the thing, though. Part of me thinks that it might be good for Bungie to come out and go, hey, we're meeting some targets, we're missing some others. You know? You don't have to go into detail, right? But for all this speculation shit, if they come out and go, you know what, we're meeting some of these targets, we're fine. Don't be wrong, people won't shut up. But it also takes a little air out of that balloon. Right. Bungie is really bad about their PR has always been shit, to be honest. Oh, yeah. Um they've never really been able to engage with the community that well. I did see one thing where somebody's like, the the article was this is not the same bungee. And one of the devs came and listed a bunch of devs that have been there since Halo. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. You guys have no control.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Right. Right, right. Well, and and and and the well the that part of that, part of that is the fact that uh gamers, uh, all of us, right? Um seem to associate developers and management in the same bubble.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Right, and it's not.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

And it's not, it's not at all. It's like any company, right? You have your customer service level people, and you have your management, and you have your executives, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

And I guarantee you that if we saw the game that the devs wanted to develop, we'd be having a completely different conversation.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

As opposed to what they were allowed to develop.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yep, 100% agree.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

You know. But it is what it is. Time will tell some luck. I I want them to succeed because I like Bungie well enough, despite all its faults. I like Destiny. I I want them to be able to do Destiny 3. Right now, that doesn't seem like that's really going to be on the plate.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Right. Well, yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing. I I want them to be able to do Destiny 3 and to give us the the grand reset that that that that that franchise deserves.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah, and that it needs at this point. You know, um you you called it the final shape, but yet we're still here.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Right? Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Part of it is there's a lot of players that just don't want to start over, and I get that.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Sure. Sure. But but but but but but at the same time, there are a lot of players that do. And at this point, I mean hell, Destiny Rising is a is it is a concrete example of that. Destiny Rising is a concrete Destiny Rising is a concrete example of that. Destiny Rising came out and players flocked to it. And and yes, player numbers have been down, and that's why they're making a bunch of changes to Destiny Rising, which I'm going to go and check out, by the way. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna go check it out. Um I might stream it. I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna review it.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, I need to know it. I haven't reinstalled it since the rebuild.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Because I want to know what's going on, because they they've made a bunch of changes or are making a bunch of changes, and I want to know what the hell is going on. Because it's either that they're doing this because engagement is down, uh, or they're doing it because the game's about to go EOL.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Now that that being said, neither one of those is actually good.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yeah, neither one of those is a good thing, so we might as well enjoy it while we have it. Because, like it or not, Destiny Rising story was pretty damn good.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

It really was. I was I was surprised because also a lot of times these alternate timelines don't play out well.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

But they've done a really good job in the story of taking the lore from the point that they took it and then taking it in a different direction while still being at least slightly familiar. Um without needing to be familiar. That's the great part about that story is you could play just Destiny Rising and have never touched any other Destiny and it wouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

You know, a lot of times when you see alternate timelines, you really kind of had to play it and know what the actual timeline was to understand some of the things that I've done.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah, this one no. Yeah, this one you didn't have to, which is great, which is absolutely great. But yeah, anyway, moving on. Moving on, uh, we we have uh the the the the latest game uh that everyone's been talking about, at least on my timeline. Uh uh for for for to qu a quick reference, uh, this is being recorded on uh March 18th, uh, so we have not yet played Crimson Desert, uh, but the review embargo dropped today. Um but I wanted to talk more about um the the controversy surrounding Crimson Desert and whether or not it's been manufactured by clout chasers. Um my my Sharona? Yes, um, but like so long story short, to keep this as brief as possible, uh the developers did not show the gameplay on the base Xbox Series S and the um PlayStation 5 until like two days ago. The the only footage that we saw from this game was on PlayStation 5 Pro or PC, and it got a lot of people going, well, what about the base consoles? You know, are they gonna be terrible? You know, I mean, they can't look this good, something's gotta give, performance has gotta be blah, this, that, the other thing, right? And, you know, Digital Foundry did them no favors by saying that, hey, we were sent a PlayStation 5 Pro to test this game on this, that, the other thing. Like, um it was kind of a bit of a wonky showing overall for a game that was that that, you know, for a lot of people, they're expecting it to be this massive, successful, you know, game of the year style hit. Um and so before the reviews, before the review, the review embargo dropped, that was the major controversy. You know, will it won RHEL? Did the devs hide the console gameplay? You know, all this shit, right? And every single review that came out today, by the way, was on PC. Sure. So that only added more fuel to this flare. Now, that being said, two days ago we got we got base PS5 console gameplay. And to be fair, it looks fine. It looks fine.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Well, yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's gonna probably be fine.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

It looks fine. That being said, the game itself, and now I I will be playing the game tomorrow. Uh, when it launches, I'll be here uh playing the game, sharing my thoughts. I hope Cheeks will join me, depending on what time it is after we get done with your music stream on uh over at Half Century Track, Shameless Plug, and all that. Um But that being said, I'm not going to let the reviews that I've seen dictate my playing of the game.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

At the end of the day, you really ever never should, right? Right. But we've we've game if you watch a review of a game, a video review, let's say you watch a video review, or you because it's a little bit more than reading an article, and what you see intrigues you. Yep. Even if they're going, man, this is terrible, if the cost is where you're willing to pay, then try it. Then try it. Because which is kind of uh I'm gonna jump topics here for a second. Because I've seen a lot of people that like when you're like, oh, this game is great, this game is great, and then they play it, and then they think it sucks. They get offended. But but that's how it works. That's how it works. Not everybody is gonna like every game. It would be nice if the games I presented to my friends, they all went, oh yes, let's play these. But that's in theory, in not in theory, but in practice, that's not how that works. Now, don't get me wrong, if if you have something your friend's like, hey, I want to try this, and you agree to try it, well, there's some scratch your back involved, too. So when that friend comes back to you and says, I want to try this game, even if you think it's something you're not gonna like, give it a try.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Right. Well, opinions, I mean, like, but you know what? Well, sure, but they're but but they're already has one. Well, right, but but opinions are uh uh opinions are subjective, right? It's my opinion, your opinion, their opinion, whatever. And the thing of it is is like is it is is we we are if they're like this doesn't run, it's buggy, it crashes constantly.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Right. That that's gonna give me pause. I I will I will not deny that. I and I'm gonna go to the body.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Right, but if they're like if they're like, oh the story is like the story is this, yeah, I think the story's weak.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

I think you know, and my my classic example is the original release of No Man's Sky. People were like, oh, this game is terrible. Meanwhile, I'm over here with like 300 hours you know, um because I thought it was fine. Was it what they promised? Really?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

No, but but but again everything they promised, but no, but but but I don't hide train so right, but as we've also talked about before, they spent the past decade making, you know, making up for that. Well, true.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Um there are still games that I like that I know most of my friends look at me and go, what? Fucking there are games that there are games that you like, and I look at you and go, what? Fucking dirdo. It's a good game.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

It's a good game. Don't knock it till you try it, cheeks.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Right. I have tried it, actually. Um it's not my stock. It's not my game. Or there's what was the other one you were playing? Some store simulator game. I don't remember what it was. Are you sorry? The one you sent me yesterday, the video store one. I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Nostalgia!

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Well, it is nostalgia for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

That is that is that is one and now, apparently, by the way, because there are a lot of like, you know, uh uh a lot of uh uh you know simulator titles like that now, you know, but but apparently that one specifically um uh is from from what I what I was reading and a couple of reviews that I read and some stuff I was watching, um doesn't have the same what people call simulator slop features that a lot of these ones that are very obviously just kind of like cobbled together do. Right. So I was like, hmm. Yeah, it might be might be interesting to give that one a shot someday, maybe we'll say.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Find a reviewer that thinks like you do kind of is close to the way you do, the game has your same game tests, your same, you know, your your tastes in gaming. Right. Somebody that you go, okay, if this person likes a game, there's a good chance I'm going to like it. Exactly. If they don't like it, there's a heavy percentage that I won't. Right. But I still would say don't make that your end-all be-all.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

When you can, which brings me to my last topic. When you can. For the first time in God, it has to be ten years.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

There is a baseball game. And I've been watching people play the pre-release, the pre-order, and I'm like, that looks cool. I want to play this. But I can't. Because it's not coming to PC.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Damn you, MLB 26 road to the show. First baseball game in ages that I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Good job, MLB the show. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

I mean, I get it on my Xbox One, probably, but I don't spend much time on that anymore. So it's one of those things where you just thought about getting rid of them.

unknown 39:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Well, and it's one of those things where it's like, do you really like again, like that game itself is not going to sell a console for most people.

unknown 39:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

I'm surely not going to go buy an Xbox One X just to play MLB the show. Right. Um we don't have, you know, we have the we have our we have my Xbox. You know, we have an eck, I have an S, and I have the original, and that's it. Um I I would I like the newer one, sure. But again, I don't spend enough time on it to justify it.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Well, right. That's the thing. It's like my my my Series S I got I got from a guy who couldn't get it running, and I fixed it. Because I'm like, I just need to just need a power supply. Done.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Like so in common.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah. And the 360 for that matter. Right. Um it's an Xbox thing, to be honest. Uh right. But yeah, my whole point is, first time in a decade, I'm like, oh, I want to play this game. Son of a son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Well, and it's and like the really funny thing is like they're like, well, they're like, well, the the the cost to put it on PC in the market and this and the other thing. And I'm like, right, but but I mean, you're still making you're still gonna make your money back. Bro. Um for the most part. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

You'll leave your money on the table.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Well, and like, and like EA, EA with Madden, they're like, well, you know, we we we we put it on PC because it's because it's it's an easy port and it makes us money. I'm like, exactly. Like, it makes you money. Like, this would make you money, SDS, so just do it. But then again, it's also it's also Sony, and we know how they now feel about PC titles. So speaking of Sony and PlayStation titles, uh Starfield yesterday, uh a bunch of stuff was revealed for Starfield yesterday, um, including the new uh DLC, the Terranar Mata, and the new update. Uh uh uh uh Oh god. I've already forgotten I've already forgotten the name of it. Uh free lanes. Uh free lanes is the free update, uh, as it were, um, which uh allows for what they're calling cruising mode, which allows you to actually go between a fly between planet to planet. And there are things that will take you outside of that cruising mode.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Not not not system to system. That's still the old warp. Fly faster in system.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yeah. Um and there's things that will take you out of cruising mode. Like that there are like signal jammers and stuff like that. It's a really cool idea. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Copy delete, which is fine.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Right, sure. Um, there is also the the DLC, which is the Terran Armada DLC, which is basically um uh, you know, uh humans and robots fighting together uh to murder, death, kill you, um, which looks amazing. They actually added some like realistic finger quotes uh guns this time around, too. All of that looks really cool. It hits April 7th. Um and it comes on and it comes to PlayStation 5 on the 7th as well. Um That being said, uh they also did drop the price of the base game. Price of the base game is now $50, so that you can then go and spend full price on the DLC and uh on the first DLC, shattered space, and this DLC. It's absolutely time. It's been three years. Yeah, it's absolutely time. I have shattered space.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

I don't I don't have you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

I need to get I need to get shattered space yet, uh, but obviously, you know, the uh it' how do you not have shattered space and you're playing the Star Wars mod?

SPEAKER_02 43:19

It's required.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Oh, maybe I do, I guess. I don't know. I don't know, man. Maybe I don't don't require shattered space. Okay, then I guess I have shattered space. I don't fucking don't ask me, man. Oh no. Oh no! I I didn't I didn't buy it. Uh whatever. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't uh anyways. Um and then uh oh oh NVIDIA. NVIDIA Oh boy. Um so So NVIDIA announced the DLSS5 uh the uh uh uh technology and you know We're we're at a point where you know where the AI is playing the game and drawing the pictures while we just watch. Let's be real here, friends. Um and and it it's it's impressive tech. Don't get me wrong. It's impressive tech.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Well, it is, except when it gets it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

But but my my god.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

And when it gets it wrong, it's nightmare fuel.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

My god. Well, it just I some of that some of the fixtures I saw were nuts. And the really interesting thing is that it came out today that after all of that, developers were left in the dark about DLSS 5. Here's a quote um from Capcom. Uh uh people were talking um to insider gaming.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Right. Uh, people were talking to insider gaming today, and uh Capcom and Ubisoft both said that DLSS 5 tech was revealed to them at the same time as everybody else. And I quote, we found out at the same time as the public said one Ubisoft developer.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Put me in a pod, put me in the matrix.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

I just I just gladly be your battery. I just, man, it just it it's it's it's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

You know, and NVIDIA on the one hand wants to say, we're pulling back from AI. Well, meanwhile, the other hand and both feet are like fuck we are.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Right. Well then the the really funny thing is like today Jensen Wong was like, no, no, they no do you they have no idea. You're wrong, you're not correct, and I'm like, what the fuck? People don't people think that what you're putting out ain't great. Like, and the examples you showed ain't great.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

So some of it was cool. I'll give that the stuff, but then when you see other things, you're like, What wait, wait, what?

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Like when when when when when you see the um when you see the what like what totally flattens everything out, takes away all the textures and the shadows. Well, not even that. When you see what it did to uh to to to Grace from Resident Evil Requiem, like and how they were touting that as a one where their eye her eyeballs kept changing like mid-conversation. No, just one of those. Just just just just like look at the look at the stills. Look at the still look at the still look at the look at look at the stills going around where it's completely changed her face and the features and made it more realistic looking. More realistic looking. And I'm like, and I'm like, and I'm like, right, but like Capcom as artists and and and the design team made those choices. You don't get to just take those away from You don't get to make other choices for them, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Yeah, yeah. It's like the Starfield ones that I saw look like the same people.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

It's like if I wanted to, it's like if I wanted to fucking play Halo, right? But I turned on DLSS and suddenly Master Chief was SpongeBob. Like that's like that that's the that that that's the way that it feels.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Let's go kill some covenant.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

God damn it, cheeks. Count it.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

I knew I'd get one when the show was over.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I play that game, by the way. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Right. And then and then to move into more fucking controversy, oh god, Subnautica 2. Oh. That poor that poor fucking video game, man. All it wants to do is come out and be successful. And uh we finally have we finally have a confirmed release date for early access in May. Well, that comes on the back of the CEO being reinstated by a judge.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Yeah. Yeah. What all kind of wrong for the company that was the Crafton Crafton done dirty, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Crafton absolutely got I mean, it's just insane.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, that was nuts.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Just pay the bonuses and make your truckloads of money you're gonna make off this game.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Right, you're gonna make money, so shut up and play it.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

The first one's insanely popular. It's still pretty popular.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

The first one is still really and despite all the controversy, it's still really popular. Right. What? Like, that's that's the thing is like you you've obviously made a good game when you could have that much controversy surrounding it, and people are like, yeah, I'm still gonna play the second one.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

The fuck I So it's like just I I mean, just just my I mean, how how insane is that that a that a federal judge had to step in and reinstate the CEO? Because even the judge was like, yeah, no, this the the this this bullshit holds no water. Like, come on now.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Yeah, it was fucking and then to nerd out for a second, slay the spire 2 is really damn good.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Really good. It looks good, but I I didn't like that JRPG style of combat when it was first around. I mean, fair it's not it's not my fair.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Fair, fair, but god damn is that fun. Oh, if I if if I had the first one, if I had more time in my day, I'd play it more. But no. I mean I played the first one, it was alright.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah, I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, yeah. And and and this one takes all the things that you like about the first one and amps it up, turns it up to fucking 11, and then adds new shit.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

This is something that is something that when it comes up on sale, I'll probably pick it up.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Well, right, but it I but I mean I mean and then the the thing of it is is like is like it's at such a great price point, too. Like $25. $25 is nuts for a game of that quality.

unknown 50:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Like it's it's absolutely insane. It's so fun. Like, I I I I cannot recommend that game enough. Like, if you like that like car battler, you know, kind of turn-based JRPG, play the fucking game. It's so it's so much fun. Play the goddamn game. Um that being said, uh, the Steam Spring sale starts tomorrow. Uh, so go fill your backlog with cheap games you'll ever play. Go! Spend money.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

You know, I would, but I was looking at my wish list today. There are 120 items on my wish list.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

And how many of them are out?

SPEAKER_02 50:42

100 of those are coming soon.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

I do want to see.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

I just literally I literally used the wish list as a game tracker.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Right. There, well, what's what's what Steve hopes for? Let's be real. Let's be real. That's absolutely what Steve hopes for.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Um I saved that for last because, you know, now we can nerd out.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah, alright. So um we talked a couple of weeks ago as these little teasers were starting, uh, that Nathan Fillion was um going around to all of the Firefly cast members and doing weird little shorts on Instagram, and for a couple of weeks there was a bunch of speculation as to what it could be. We now know that Firefly is coming back as an animated series.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Oh, we don't.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Well, for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

That's a stretch. That's a stretch. They do not have anywhere to do it yet. They don't have it filmed, they haven't even pitched it yet. The last thing he said in his last video was, yes, now I'm gonna go pitch this thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Well, yes. From what I from from what I have gathered in the in reading things. Do I think it will happen?

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

That post on Instagram has like uh uh the day after it went live, had over 12 million had over right Disney is not gonna pass that cash cow up.

unknown 52:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

They're not gonna pass it up.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Well, you know, here's the thing. Even with 12 million views, over a million likes, I am one of them. Um million it it depends on if they look at views or likes to where they, you know, because a million viewers these days is kind of eh Well it uh I'm I I so yeah, and I imagine it won't cost as much.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Well I mean the screen acting build works. Well, and like so many people were like, oh, animation, oh blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Unless you want a lot of AI. Unless you want a lot of AI uh, well, and and and and and and I I I said that I I I was like, okay, so first of all, it's been twenty-five years. Like, like first of all, like it's the only way they could do this. Second of all, setting it in between the movie or the the show and the film was the only way they could do this. Unless you suddenly wanted them to retcon what happened in Serenity or say that Serenity wasn't canon.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

You can tell the story that's after Serenity, but now you don't have Wash.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Well, well, and that's the thing is like let's be real. This is sci-fi? It's a quote from Skywalker, no one's ever really gone.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Serenity walked a really hard line of being very close to hard sci-fi.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Yeah, fair. Fair. Okay, I'll give you a.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

I'm not to say I'm not to say you can't. You can. It's like a comic book. Nobody's ever really dead.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

But to be to be fair too, for me, this is the preferred place to tell that story. I I don't I'm not interested in what happens after Serenity. I wasn't actually interested in Serenity. Um because I wanted more. So that movie can go away.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Look, look, don't get me wrong. I liked Serenity. I was 16 when that movie came out. It was alright. I loved that movie, it was great. Um uh that being said, I haven't watched it in a number of years. I actually should probably go back and give it another watch.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Here's my issue with Serenity. Yeah, it's very simple. In the entire lead up to that, Joss kept saying this will not change anything in the continuity of the series. It takes place after the series. We will start there. And in the very first, less than ten minutes into the movie, we get this conversation between Mal and the doctor. You're not a part of the crew. Even if I know X-Y was pretty clueless about that sort of thing, went that that's not right. Because let's go back to depending on how you watch them, I think it's episode two where Simon says, Why did you come back for me? And Mal says, Because you're part of my crew. And I'll be honest, it kind of lost me a bit right there because you've already gone back on your promise to not change continuity.

unknown 55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

And there were some other there were some other issues that I thought did change the continuity from what had gone before. And so I was just like, eh, it's okay. Now, don't be wrong, I like some of the characters. I dug the operative character, the yeah, I can't I can't pronounce his name, I'm sorry. Um I would just butcher it if I try to.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

No, yeah, I I get you. I get you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

You know, uh I can barely I can barely come pronounce Timon Houston Houston's name. So that's it.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Well, and and it's and like so they're like they're like everything else these days, there are people who are very excited the Firefly is back. There are people who are very excited.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

I mean, and I can't I'll be fairly excited when I actually see it.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

And no matter what, but but but the the the point that I was just about to make is that like everything else, some people take this shit too far. And there are people who are like, oh my god, animation, it can't be animation. Animation isn't real. And I was like, Oh, right. I mean, this is a f neither was Firefly. Neither was Firefly television. Spoiler alert. I don't I don't know how to tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Um I can understand the desire to have more of the TV series itself, but here's the problem. That is exponentially more expensive now than it was then, simply because of one thing, and that is the Screen Actors Guild's rules. That series is now exponentially more expensive to cast those same people in as it was then than it was then. You're gonna blow your entire budget on getting either Nathan, Alan, or Marina. Right. That's before you get to anyone else. Right. You might get one or two of them for that kind of money. Right. But you're not gonna get that entire cast. No, and there's only so far that an actor can agree to take a price reduction before SAG steps back in and says, No, that's bad for everybody's business. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Well, then well then the other thing, the the other thing, and and and and and and I've seen this, I've seen this around, and look, I am not one to ever disabuse anyone of their personal beliefs. Right? You know me. You know me for a long time. Well, but you're right. There are people who are like, well, I'm not going to watch this because Adam Baldwin is in it.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Well, look. He said some kind of silly stuff.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

He said some stupid shit. He he's done some stupid shit. But at the same time, that's a personal choice you're making, and that's fine. The problem that I have with it. Probably lying, number one. Number two, the problem that I have with it, right, is that you made a personal choice and then had to share it with everybody else for validation of that personal choice.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Sure. But don't we all do that? Aren't we kind of doing that right now?

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Yes, but it bugs me. It bugs me. And we're doing it, well, well, we are doing it because we are on a show. We're talking about it in like that's what the show was created for. Right, sure. But they are doing it like just as like a I'm going to announce to the world.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Sure. Yeah, and I don't know why that bugs me.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Good for you. Right. Also, you're probably like, I'm like, I don't know why that you're right. I'm like, I don't know. I and and and and and it it just it it just oh and then then then there was somebody who got mad and and and oh well they they asked for Joss Whedon's blessing. How dare they! He created it, he owns it. I'm like, he created it, he owns it, like Joss Whedon or not.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

They have to.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

He they had to.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah. Look, look, just go make Firefly without his blessing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

They they cannot just go and say, hey, we're gonna make Firefly now, because Joss could sue them.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

That's like saying we're gonna make more Harry Potter, but we're not gonna consult JK. That's not how that works.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

That's not how that works, unfortunately, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Like, like look, no matter what you think it worked that way, that's not how it works.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

No matter what we think of Joss Whedon now, the fact of the matter is, like, he created the damn thing. He owns it, he owns the intellectual well Fox owns you he owns the intellectual property.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

But he's on the rights, but he still owns the basic story and characters in order to use them to have his permission.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Exactly. Everyone and people are caught up in semantics about that. Oh, they they got his blessing. That means he's going my favorite is is is the hyperbolic speculation, right? Well, they got his blessing. That means he's going to ghost strike these episodes. No, no, he isn't.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

They already have two script writers, but they already have two script writers.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Plus, Nathan, I watched. If he is, you'll never know. Number two, I watched.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Here's how you tell. Does somebody on the show have foot fetish? And he's probably gonna scream it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

I would say you'd go ahead and bring it. But the the the other the the other the other the other thing is that like is like like there they're the oh well. I just I can't, man. I just I just Oh I I know I'm right, Greg.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

I know I'm right. That's the point.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Well, Nathan, Nathan shouldn't have used the word blessing. Fuck all the way off.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

Whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Whatever. Like, come on, man. Now look, look, now that being said, if we get Tim Mineer back, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

Like my my main problem is can't get wrong glass. You know. But however, Kama, by doing this in an animated fashion, you can get a voice actor who's pretty close.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

Will it be the same?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

But at least the character can be present without having to and I mean this is gonna sound weird, but he can look like Shepard Book as opposed to somebody playing the part of Shepard Book who's not Ron Glass.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

You know, exactly in the same way that that Mr. Man can now play Zavala because Zavala still looks like Zavala.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

You know, um so it this was the best way they were gonna be it's really the only way they were ever gonna be pulled this off. Absolutely. And do I think it will happen? Yes, I do. I think they'll find a spot. You've got all these people already on board, you've got writers, you've got producers, you've got you've got everything except somewhere to put it, to put it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Well, and and and and so and and let's be real, right? Disney Plus, um while they are doing well in in member numbers, right? They are not doing well in what is called time of engagement.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Um something like this, an announcement like this, where that it's hey, for the Firefly animated show is Come and Get Is D Plus, will turn that around in a fucking heart. It will drive engagement. I know people, I kid you not. I I I've been a part of a couple Firefly groups on Facebook since oh, the early, I mean, since the early days of Facebook, right? And and they're all fucking abuzz, and everyone's losing their goddamn minds. But there are people who literally keep a Disney Plus window open on their computer 24-7 and just constantly stream Firefly.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Yeah. Yeah. We call those people insane. You know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Um, see, here's the thing. I have a weird, uh weird history with Firefly, sorta. I didn't actually watch it when it was first on. Fair because it was it was against something else I was already watching. I don't remember what it was, but there was some other show that I was already watching. And then let me finish, Mog. Come on, hang on. Uh don't at me just yet. So later, then it got cancelled, so I was like, oh well, I guess that's done. Um but then I found it on sale in Walmart when they released it on Blu-ray, I think. Maybe DVD? I don't remember. I think it's I want to say it's a Blu-ray. I'd have to go look. But anyway, I found it for 20 bucks. The whole that whole run thing. Yeah. And I'm like, shit shit, I can eBay it for more than this if I hate it. Right. I still own it. I'm just gonna put that out there. Right. Um you know, and it's don't be wrong, yes, it's my whole point was I didn't come to Firefly when it first aired and they screwed it all up. Right. Um I did watch it originally. I I did well, I have watched it in both the order that they wanted to release it in and the order that they released it in.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

And I my opinion is had they released it in the proper order, we might not be having this discussion. Right. Because it would have made more sense. Everything would have lined up properly. Um but networks even then were notoriously uh oh, I already talked about that. Serenity can go away and I wouldn't miss it at all. You missed that part of the conversation, actually. You weren't back yet. I have some issues with Serenity. I like parts of it, don't get me wrong, I like certain characters in it. Um yeah, but which is why I prefer the fact that they're going back to the timeline of the series before the movie happens. Um it will be interesting to see if they can get back into that headspace with the scripts and everything else. Um because you do have to roll back the continuity that you did put in from Serenity, the relationships, especially with like River and Null. Because by the end of the Serenity, their relationship has really moved forward. Um but now you have to roll some of that back. Jane is a Jane, it doesn't change, so yeah, but that's that is what it is. Right. Um my favorite Firefire line ever was targeted at Jane. Which is the next time you want to stab me in the back, stab me in the face, you can do it to my face. I love that line because I'm like, man, that makes no sense, but it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

So I'm glad about that. I'm glad we can get this on. Form of Shepard Book back. If they choose. Or they could choose to go to the timeline where he's left the ship, but it's still before the movie. See, I I I would I I would I would like to see that. But you've got to have you you almost have to have at least a little bit of Shepherd Book, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

I was gonna say, I I would like to see why he left. You know, or how he left.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Right. Um I think they they I thought they explained that in the book. They explain it in the book. Because I read the book too, because I'm that guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Well, but yeah, well, I mean, and and and there are and all of the Firefly books are fucking amazing. If you have not read them, go read them. If you have not read the comics, read the they are so good. They get um uh they are on par in terms of like a continuation or or or or or or uh uh uh a continuation or a a um a different take on a universe with the 90s X-Wing series.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:59

I'm so disappointed we're not gonna get that. Thanks for reminding me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I just break your heart?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

You did. All over again. We're not gonna get the Rogue Squadron movie or series.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

I'm I'm the worst, I'm sorry. I I love you. I love you. Um uh would you like a Sheamus Hug to make it better? He will he will gladly offer you one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

I was like, I have to put up with Ahsoka season two, but I don't get I don't get Rogue Squadron.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

Hey, hey, hey, you'd be nice. Ahsoka season one was pretty damn good to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

That's true, but we have to do this without race teams.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

I know. Well that being that being said, though, the dude thank god, I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I'm okay with that. I'm I'm looking forward. Yeah for sure. Um I was like, ooh, good choice. Right. Um yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens with Firefly. I think it will happen. You know, technically it's not a done deal yet. Um I did watch the panel.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

So did I? The panel was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

The funniest part of the panel was there at the end when he's like, so I real talk in the live, real time, I just got a text. Yeah, and you know, uh from the guy who played Mr. Universe is like, hey, good luck to you all. I'm sorry I'm dead. And then he's like, Don't worry about it, we're going back to the series. You're still alive, yeah. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Honestly, like the the the the the the the the the opening bit with the cue cards, I was fucking dying the first time I watched it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

That was funny. I'm Nathan Fillion. And I was like, Spartacus before we ever got to Alan, I was like, Oh, we're a Spartacus in it, are we? Right. Um it's interesting. I actually saw an interview. I there was a bit on the We Were Spaceman podcast, I think, where where Nathan is like, Do you realize that you're like in every Disney movie now? Yeah. Every animated Disney movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

All of them. You know. Um yeah, it's pretty funny. Uh but yeah, which also makes the again, it's part of what makes those that series now to film it on film essentially more expensive. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

Um and the the the the the interesting thing is that Alan was even like he was like, it's been 25 years. And he's like, and he's like, arguably, I've been in larger commercial products projects, 25 years, but Star Wars has not displaced Firefly.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

He talked about that. Right. And I was like, damn. It's level with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

Um that doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

It doesn't surprise me either, but I was like, damn. I mean, uh, yeah, I was like, damn, but that's that's it, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Like Firefly, and God, people are gonna hate me for this. Is a modern is a more modern version of Star Trek the original series. Yes. It was kept alive after it died by the fan base. Absolutely. You know, the fan base kept Star Trek alive in a very similar manner. Hell, that Star Trek fan base is why you have conventions now. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's why they literally they are the ones that kind of started that whole nerdy con type thing. Um and I've been to a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Yeah, have I?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

Yeah. Uh on both sides of the table. So, you know, um so yeah, it's kind of the same deal. The fan base has kept it alive for far longer than it technically had a right to survive, right? Right. Um, I was I I'm a novel fan. Like, you know, I read exhaustively. Um so I've read the books, I've read, you know, you know, so actually I still own the series, I still refer, I still go back to it and watch my favorite episodes once in a while. Um I don't watch all of it. There's a few of them where I'm like, no. Fair. Uh you know, just because I'm like, no, no, here, not no.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:10

I ain't going to that train again.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Right. Not not every episode is is an absolute rock solid winner. No, but people forget is it's very much a first season show that in many ways was still trying to find its legs.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Right. But what but what when that show well that's the thing is like when that show hit, it hit our cylinders for sure. And and well, and and and the the the other thing the other thing with that show is is it holds up really well.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

It does. It absolutely holds up really well. There's a lot of people in that show that went on to do other things.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Supernatural, for example.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

Yeah. Oh, yeah. But there's a lot of people in that show that uh that that wanted on to do other things that that that still say that that show was one of the best things that that they've ever done.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:00

Oh, yeah. Pretty much all of them, with with very little exception, yeah. They they have nothing but good things to say about that shoot. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

Absolutely. And like the buff, which is a completely different story.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:15

Which uh but yeah, I mean, and there are a lot of them, I mean, hell, they they all still chat, they all still talk. Yeah. That's pretty unusual.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

That's yeah, that's really unusual.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

It's less unusual. I have discernment that it's less unusual for a TV show than a movie, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:34

Because the Star Trek guys all still do it too. At least the next gen guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

Yeah, yeah. The Star Trek guys do it. Um uh uh but yeah, I it yeah, that that that is so unheard of, so so rare. And a lot I mean and and and a lot of it is just because you're yeah, it it it it's it's it's like working a renaissance festival, right? You you you you work these shows, right? And you work these shows for how long? You know, uh a couple of weekends up to two months at a time, right? And you all get really close, and then you don't see each other for a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

Yeah. Sometimes, and then others you don't. Um, but at the end of the day, you know, the for a lot of the patrons, that's the only show they go to all year long. Right. So at the end of that, you know, I'll use Kansas City, for example, because that's the longest one that we did, which was seven weekends.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

At the end of that seven weekends, they're very, very sad. Yeah. And I understand that. Oh, yeah. For me, next weekend, I'm down in Central or I'm over there. Yep. I'm just going to the next office. Yeah. So it's it's one of those, it's one of those rare separations.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

For for us, we got that feeling when when we would leave a show that like like the like the first year we did Great Lakes, we felt that way because as much as we loved being there, as much as everybody loved us, there was no guarantee that we were coming back because we were an expensive show.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

And they were running on fumes.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

There's never a guarantee you're coming back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless they give you a contract for the next year at the end of that show, which some do, it's very rare.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

Or if you happen to sign a multi-year deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Right, or if you happen to sign a multi-year deal. But in there are shows, don't get me wrong, there are shows where I've been I've been sad to leave, but usually, especially at the end of five, seven, you know, if the the anything that runs more than like three weekends, or really honestly, anything that runs more than two. Yeah. I'm just so tired by the end of it. Yeah. That it's really hard to to to feel much of anything other than, oh God, I just want to lay down. Um performing at those shows. People don't a lot of people don't understand you know, like, well, what? You're just you're just sitting on stage five times a day. It takes a lot of energy to do that. To to put out that show, you are cranking energy out into the audience, hoping that they can that you can get them to give it back to you. But still, by the end of the day, you're just exhausted from from doing that and being in character all day. Because unlike being on a TV set or a movie set, canon to canon, you're in character.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:24

If you're out front, if you're not by backstage somewhere, you're on. You're on stage. The whole thing is a stage. All the world is a stage, then you know, literally in this case. Um so it takes by the end of the day, you're just exhausted. And after seven or eight weekends, because you start say you start at 100%. Well, the next weekend you're starting at 90%. Right. And after that, you're starting at 80%. And then you might go down to like 60. Because it starts to get exponentially more tiring because you're not recovering as much, right? Yep. Um And that's just how it works. It is what it is. And I want sometimes I want to feel sad for them and with them, and I just can't because I don't have the energy left. Right. You know, and you just hug them, you take pictures, you tell them to see them next year. Well, in this case, this is our next fair. We will not. We're done at fair. This is it. Oh we're coming up to our last one. I have mixed feelings about it. Uh not as much as I had expected, to be honest. Right. Um for many, many, many reasons. Uh but even now, I can hear my voice, for example, from the beginning of this show to the end of this show, and I can hear the quality change of my voice. You know, um, and so pushing that out on stage for two weekends, I ain't gonna be able to talk at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

Uh so hopefully I need to check the calendar. Hopefully, there's none AC in the middle of that. Although there might not be, if there is, because I have a medical procedure scheduled for two days after we get back.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

Oh, yeah, yeah, no. We can we can work around that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:17

They're supposed to fix this some of the scar issues that I'm having. Um which basically, gosh, this is weird. I probably shouldn't talk about this online, but I don't care. They're gonna uh go I have an old scar, too long didn't read. I have an old scar that splits open and it's developed calcium deposits which are binding and catching. Um pain-wise presents itself like a hernia, and it'll they get these adhesions and then they pop, and then it'll heat get another adhesion, and it'll pop. And it keeps building up these calcium deposits, it just gets worse and worse and worse. So I've got like 12 years of this built up, and they're gonna go in, open the scar back up, remove all of the calcium deposits, but then I'll be left with an open wound.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

I will have to go to wound care to get closed.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:11

Yay!

SPEAKER_02 1:18:12

Yeah, yeah. So we'll have to walk that particular path again, which will kind of suck. Um there, done that. But in theory, then it scars up a little better this time, and I don't have that problem. Right, exactly. Which would be nice. Yeah. You get tired of walking around with an open up.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

Gee, I wouldn't know anything about that. No. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

So anyway, that's scheduled for like two days, the Tuesday after we get back.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

So if that's an aggressively casual, I'm guessing I probably won't be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:44

We can play it by ear. We got plenty of time.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:47

I can actually tell you, hang on. It is an aggressively casual that week.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Okay. We can we can play it by ear. I I don't think you'll be here, but hey. All right, chat.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:01

Scheduled for the 26th. The aggressively casual is on the 27th. Yeah. Although, which is kind of nice because that's actually Memorial Day weekend, but they're not going three days.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:13

It's a second, their second year, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:16

Oh, that's right, yeah. No, yeah, it's I I forgot. I forgot it's that show.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:22

Yeah, it's a small show. Um, it's not the smallest we've done by any stretch of the imagination.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

Um, fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:29

I've done shows where the you know where the entire time the casting crew outnumbered the patrons.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:35

Yeah. Um Been there, don't I?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

So it's not the they they pushed they pushed uh something like oh, I don't know, um, not quite 2,000 a day.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:47

That ain't bad. Per first year show, that ain't bad at all. Yeah. Alright, chat. We're gonna get out of here. Thank you so much for hanging out with us tonight. I appreciate the hell of y'all. Uh let's find someone to send y'all to over here. I'm gonna hit this button to send you guys over to Center Views. Thanks for hanging out with us, guys. We'll be back in a couple weeks with this show. I'll be back tomorrow night here with some uh Crimson Desert. We love y'all. Uh be kind, choose joy, show love. Uh hang uh uh hang out with cheeks tomorrow night before the show uh with the uh uh the half century tracks I can name over on YouTube. We love y'all, we'll catch you soon.