Sony...What Are You Doing?

This week on Aggressively Casual, we’re pulling the pin on the Sony and Bungie fallout. Destiny 2 is facing its definitive end-of-live-service reality, and the ripples are tearing through the entire gaming landscape. Bungie went from the golden child of independent shooters to Sony’s multi-billion-dollar cautionary tale.

Spoiler alert: The era of treating players like active checking accounts is hitting a wall, and we are absolutely here to roast the wreckage. BUT, the Destiny community will NOT go quietly into the night. This could get interesting. Sony HAS to listen. 

Grab a drink, skip the corporate damage control, and let’s talk about the collapse.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yeah, we got we got some things to talk about tonight that are uh fun and amazing. We got some things to talk about tonight that are terrible and frustrating and uh one makes me want to beat somebody over the head with a two by four. Um preferably some executives at some.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Alright. Inevitable.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

The moment that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

But that being said, it was the endgame. Right. But that being said, hi cheeks, how are you? Hello. Alright. So what what uh what what what's new with you? What you've been playing the past couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Well, we finished up our Rinfair performance career last weekend. I have been playing um I have Forza installed, but I haven't had a chance to play it yet. Fair. I've been playing MLB The Show 26, uh Tiny Little Bit of Windrose. I started uh a 007 last night. I obviously did not get as far into it as you have. Um but right now you have far more time than I do. It's true. Two months ago, that was me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

It's true, I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Uh um I am I need to get the new Mech Warrior 5 Mercenaries DLC that just dropped because boy, if you're a Battletech fan, yeah, baby. Hey Buck.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Uh yeah, um, so for me it's been, let's see. Uh dabbled a little bit of Windrose, uh, did some base things, want to do some more base things, played a bit of Forza, really, really likely this iteration of Forza, except for one thing, and I'll say this, and we'll and and I'll come off my Forza soapbox. Um, whoever decided that the controls for driving around in the open world and the controls for driving in the races should be different by default. I just want to have a lot of. Those persons should be taken out back and whipped with a noodle. I just want to have a talk, okay? Um, because I spent half and then and then for whatever reason I and I I I I've I've heard this complaint from a number of people. Um, the the default controls in Forza, um, in terms of the sensitivity of the sticks, if you're using a controller for steering, are terrible. Like you can nudge the stick and go creating into a wall.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

You know what? Some people would think a sensitive stick is a good thing. That's all I'm saying. God damn it, cheeks. We're still talking about gaming. Count it!

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I think the counter's a little behind. Uh it might be. Oh uh, this one is. The counter should be at like 91. Yeah, so this one is for some reason they don't match up, but I can't figure out why. Uh let me see if I can fix that.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Just give me two, and we'll be good. There we go. That's that's the correct number. I keep track.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Oh, yeah. So uh other than other than Forza, I played and beat uh Lego Batman Legacy of the Dark Dight, which is fucking phenomenal. We'll talk about that later.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, I'm not paying 70 bucks for that game.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

We'll talk about that a little later. Um uh Lego Batman, that that game kind of blew my mind a little bit how wonderful that game was. I have two problems with it again. We'll talk about that in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Um and then uh good watching you play it, but it ain't $70 worth of goods.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, and then uh just started uh the uh uh uh uh 007 first light last uh yesterday. Um I I think I'm probably about like 60 or 70% of the way through that game. By started, he means most of the way through it. I'm pretty sure I'm like 70% of the way through that one at this point, which honestly I'm okay with. Like I'm I mean, I I I I I I kind of figured it was gonna be a sit-down and you've been playing it for like three solid days.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So I mean well, two yesterday hours that you've been playing.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yesterday and today, and according to Steam, I have 17 hours.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

He's not working right now, so he has much more time on his hands.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

So we're talking from not saying anything other than it's not that short. Right. It's also not really, really long.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Well, the other the the the other thing is like you have to remember that this game is also designed for replayability because of the the there's different ways you can do these missions, right? It has that little hitman aspect to it where you can go back and redo things, plus it has all the tax sim stuff that I haven't even touched yet. I haven't even seen what the what the what the what what the tax is.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

The campaign itself, there's other stuff after the campaign. But yeah, it it's not terribly long, but it ain't terribly short either. I you know um there are there are certainly shorter games. Right longer ones. I mean right.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Right, yeah. Well, and for the for the amount of content that it gives you, and for what and I I I am satisfied with with with with what I have played and how long each mission is in terms of like like what when you start a mission and kind of where you think it's going, isn't always where it ends up, and yeah, how could I play is has been quite lovely.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Uh it's it's about the right length. Um and this is a this is a balancing act with this sort of game, too, because the missions get too long, you get bored, they're not long enough, you're like, that's it. You know, it there's a very fine line to walk.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Um Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

So with with with with with with Bond specifically, right? I said this kind of at the outset, and it really rings true is that this game, because a lot of people with with with with with 007 First Light were worried that it was going to be you know a hitman clone and nothing more. But what it really feels like is it feels like um a hitman, Uncharted, and Watchdogs kind of had this weird baby, and it all works really well together. Um, they did a really good one.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

The bits that I played have have worked together, and yeah, it's not just go here, kill dude. Um, which is uh yeah, I I can understand why people were kind of worried about that. Well, sure. But but yeah, but at the same time, I don't I was more worried about would they be able to implement the other aspects as opposed to would it only be that?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Fair, fair, you know, uh and I I really think that they that they have succeeded in most of the things my games are hard, yo. Right right now for me, the game is sitting at like a a an eight and a half, nine out of ten. And somebody asked me earlier, like, why is my score that? And I said, because I haven't seen how the story ends yet. How the story ends and how it wraps up will determine if my score stays where it's at or if it goes up. This is one of my favorite single-player games I've played in a while. And again, I just beat Lego Batman, which for me was a solid like eight and a half, nine. But Lego Batman had two things that I could not get over. A lot of people are like, well, it should have been a 10, it should have been a 10, and I'm like, no, it shouldn't have been a 10. Because for me, Lego Batman, Lego Batman had two problems that I couldn't get over. One, the stealth is not stealth, right? I wrote uh stealth is ass. The stealth in Lego Batman is not stealth, it is slower walking, right? Sweet.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So it's like me in real life trying to be stealthy.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

But do not do not tell me that I have to sneak up on somebody and and do a takedown on them when I can't actually sneak up on them.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Um so here's the thing. If you get a 10 out of me, you're gonna know that game is fucking good. The last game to get a 10 out of me was some of my favorite games only get eight and a half.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

The last game to get a 10 out of me was The Witcher 3 in 2015. I see I wouldn't even give The Witcher 3 a 10. But at the time, I had not played at the time that that game for me was perfect. I had no issues, I had no a lot of people were reporting bugs. It was an incredible experience, and speaking of Witcher 3. Yes, okay, yeah, um uh uh uh uh ME2 also got a 10 from me. Um uh but The Witcher 3 is also apparently getting DLC next year.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, I I have I have I have absolutely zero care about that. That game, I I've played that game, I'm not putting that game back on and trying to go all the way back through it just to be able to play that DLC.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Well, right. I I I I'm pretty sure that they've said it's going to be a standalone like D you don't have to play through the whole game to get there. You can just install the game and play through the DLC.

unknown 9:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Um, from from what I from what I've gathered. So I mean that that's at least nice. Um because I was worried about that. I was I was like, um, so you want me to play the game again, huh? I don't want to do that. But apparently, no, you can't.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Well, yeah, for me, for me, and we'll touch on this again later. The time for that game has come and gone. Sure. Now, that's not to say that if you still love playing The Witcher 3, you do you. You play the hell at that game. Because Lord knows I still play Skyrim once in a while, and I go back to a lot of older games. Just for me, that one has come and gone. But I was never as enamored with the Witcher trilogy of games as a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

One and I I always freely admitted that one and two were clunky as hell, and if you didn't know the lore or have an interest in the lore, you were kind of shit out of luck. Which given that I've read the books, I think three is the first one that really kind of everybody got it.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Opened it up.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, everybody got it. Um uh but yeah, what what but but returning to Lego Batman for a second, the other gripe that I have is that because Rocksteady was a co-developer on the game, they allow it allowed them to do like the cool things like the combat and and and and like the Arkham Asylum style, you know, takedowns and things like that. That's all good and grip. The problem is that they also reverted to an old school um an old school way of thinking when it comes to the way the grapple system works in the game. So what I mean by that is if you played Arkham Asylum or if you played Arkham City, right, you remember that if you were flying or gliding around, I would be looking at, like, say I'm looking up here, right? And I'm looking up here and I want to grapple up here to this next ledge. Well, the game apparently thinks that I want to grapple to the street lamp three blocks away down there. Because you can't control it. They solved that in Gotham Knights. They solved that in Arkham Knights.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

That's like that's like the parkour in Assassin's Creed 1.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Right. Like, why did I just jump around wall? Right. Why did we revert to this broken, you know, almost 20-year-old system?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

The the first thought that comes to mind is it was that a limitation of the Lego engine? I don't think so. You know, I I wouldn't think so. But I mean, that's the first thing that kind of pops into my mind as a possible thing of why they might have done that. Um but yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

It was it was just so weird, it was just so strange, and and it it it it kind of took you out of the experience you were having a little bit. And so that's where I was like, I can't forgive this, right? Like if it happened once or twice, whatever, it's a bug. Oh, and the other thing is that sometimes, sometimes there were a couple of little bugs. I posted one on TikTok the other day, well, across across all of our uh all of our shorts platforms, where um I was fighting some dudes as Catwoman, and then all of a sudden everybody disappeared around me.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

There's a kink there in there, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

I was like, well, uh, I deleted I deleted those men real good, chat. I'm so good they disappeared.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

But you know, there there is, I can't actually think of a game that's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Oh yeah, no. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

There's always something where I go, man, I love all of this game except that over there.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Right, but the point the point that I was making is that like for for a number of years now, the live service, you know, machine peddlers, we'll call them, right? Have been trying to convince us that single player titles and single player gaming is dead. And well, I mean, they've been trying to do this for what, like a decade now. Yet, you know, here we are, right? This this week, the past week, two weeks, however long, it is proof that these cohesive, you know, no pains.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Two games does not proof make. Two games begins to establish a pattern. Right. Two games is not proof. Because if I go to Steam right now and look at all the other releases, I'm sure there are more single player games. Most of them are gonna be complete crap. So, of course, at the end, most of the multiplayer games are gonna be complete crap. Now, with that being said, and I said this before the stream, I do hope that this is the beginning of companies realizing that the live service model is unsustainable. And let's go back to making products that are finite, right? You play them, you get a good story, you move the hell on to the next one. Yep instead of trying to keep these things perpetually going. Right. Um, I do too, Drag. I I current I I love single player games, don't get me wrong, but my preferred game is multiplayer. Note the lack of the word massive. All I want to do, for example, is get into Fallout or Skyrim or or even Swotor for that fucking matter, or EverQuest, or whatever, and tool around with a couple of buddies. I don't give two craps about the 10,000 other people that are playing this game at the same time as me. I don't care. Right. Arc Raiders. I just want to get into Arc Raiders and go pop some stuff with friends. That's it. It doesn't matter. So but at the same time, most of the time, and I mean I say this, and if I look at my machine right now, the bulk of what is installed is absolutely single player games.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

You know, um or or or games that are that are that that can either be played single player or cooperatively. I mean, you and I play a lot of my games.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

The bulk of what I have installed is probably just single player. Yeah, fair. Um let's see. One, two, three, four, five. Yeah, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, electrical, thirteen. Yeah, a lot of this stuff is just single player games. Um, it doesn't have any multiplayer whatsoever. I would love to get into Starfield and just tool around with a couple of buddies. Right. Um, you know, that sort of thing. I don't need massive. I I do like multiplayer, right? But I don't need massively multiplayer. So games like well, games like Wenrose and even Arc and things like that are pretty much perfect. I can go off and play them to my heart is consent content, just me, or Big Pop server, get a few friends on, go have a wild time. Yep, exactly. Exactly. You know, I mean the the the the other So hopefully live service the live service paradigm is starting to fade. I'm not holding my breath.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

I'm not holding my breath. I'm not I'm I I I I think that companies are starting to look at live service as as I I think they're starting to look at it differently and they're being more selective about about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

You have to, because now you've got a saturated market. Yeah. You've got a guy so when you come along with a half-assed game, right? I'm looking at you, you know the one. Yep. It doesn't do what you need it to do. We'll talk about that one in a little while.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Right, exactly. Um exactly. So my thing is like, we're we're talking about single-pair games, but like we're like you can also look at a game like like Subnautica 2, which has been in development hell for a while, and we've covered that before, but then it finally comes out in early access and it's already sold two million copies.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

It has. There is indeed a large elephant in this indeed. A large so but on the other hand, the the the appeal, obviously, of live here. Listen to me being a live service apologist. I'm not, by the way. I just I'm a realist and I know how this works. Um with live service, obviously, the money stream is in theory, somewhat continuous. With well, look at look at Lego. Boom, that's what you get. You know, you get my 70 bucks, you're not gonna get another 70 bucks from me for Lego Batman because I already bought it.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Oh, you got my 70 bucks for first light. You're not gonna get my first, you're not gonna get another 70 bucks from me for first light. Now, with that being said, where do you actually draw the line? Because The Witcher 3, that's a perfect example. It's got several DLC packs, but it's not technically a live service game, or is it? But that revenue stream is still finite, is my point. Right. And so the idea here, and part of this is because, you know, if when you're spending $300 million to make a game, which is a dollar, um you're not gonna make that back most of the time. Your your wind roses, your Semnauticas, your what's the other one uh lately that's been huge, that was surprisingly huge.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Blanking on it. Blanking on it. Anyway, um talked about it a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

But yeah, like some of the things that's yeah, what the hell is the one that sold six million fucking copies?

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Crimson Desert?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Crimson Desert. Yeah, not a live service game. Nope. That's but that's one of those things. I mean, well, to be fair there that can make that make that again if we're doing if we're defining live services ongoing and not just DLC drops. Yeah, yeah. And let's be fair, most of the time when people talk about live service, we're really talking about cash shops. Right. Right. Well, and to be fair, they're they're ever. We're talking about buying packs in MLB or Madden or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Um, but yeah, Crimson Desert's not complete. They're still doing it, and they've already talked about but but at its heart, it's just a single player game. I would love to have multiplayer in that game. I think pooling around with two or three of us in that game would be a blast. I think great. Yeah, that'd be that'd be incredible. So but the the thing is Crimson Desert is one of the few games to make back that kind of money. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that doesn't Glazed Assassin's Creed surely didn't.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Right, yeah. That doesn't you know those things don't happen generally.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

And on average, you just don't make that back that back because that's why game prices have gone up.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Well, right. But that's why the live service model got so popular, but it's also part of the reason why why budget started to inflate because people pe because companies were like, well, we can spend 200 or 300 million dollars on a game, but we can make it back over a longer period of time versus needing to make it back within the first six months, or else we're fucked. Right? That was the idea. That was the idea was that we can we can we can raise the budgets a bit, but then we can make the money back over a longer period of time.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

But the problem is the budgets have gotten out of hand. But yeah, but right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Exactly. But yeah, we we we've talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Sustained Hollywood level budgeting.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

You cannot have you know you cannot have a five or six hundred dollar million budget for a video game.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Right, yeah, no. You know, because I have to make I have to be more and that's for the that's for the standard versions. Right before you get to the you know, I remember when 70 bucks was the Uber Uber silver, deluxe, gold, platinum, blah, blah, blah. Here's everything in the bag of chips edition. Yep. Um and I get it. Prices have not kept up with the times, but there's a reason for that. Gaming is a pure luxury market. Yep. Pure luxury market. If video games went away tomorrow, it really wouldn't change anything about how you do or don't pay your bills. Nope. Um, or you because you don't, as much as we know, don't be wrong, I am a hardcore gamer. I have been a gamer since my very first Telstar Pong system back in the early 70s. Good Jesus Christ, I'm old. Um, but uh if video games disappear tomorrow, it's just a luxury market going away. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

I mean my thing is speaking of luxury speaking of luxury markets, we gotta talk about the Steam Deck price increase because that's right. SteamTech kicked the price up by like two hundred bucks. It's insane. The Steam Deck has already kind of become a bit of a wonky value because new units have been out of stock for a few months, right? Through Valve. Whatever, right? But the fact of the matter is, is like other newer handheld consoles have kind of quietly become a better deal. Yeah. Even if the Steam Deck was selling more units. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Well, I think I think the Steam Deck was selling more units just by sheer knowledge of Valve. Well, right.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

I I think I think that's I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

For a long time I didn't even know the ACES Rogue existed.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah, I think I think that's like how did I not know this existed?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

But I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Valve announced today that the Steam Deck OLED, so the newer one, the prices are going up by over $200. The uh hey Chuck. Uh the 512 gig model is gonna be $790.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, in general, the prices went up by $200.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, and the terabyte one is $950, which is insane.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

I'm not spending $950 for a portable system. Well, here's here's what's really funny.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Here's really funny is that for for seven, eight months now, I've been saying what a bad deal the ROG Xbox Ally X is at $1,000. But now with the upgrades that machine has over the Steam Deck, better processor, double, double, double or almost triple the RAM, like a faster SSD. Like if you are if you are for whatever reason in the market for a thousand dollar handheld, buy that over the Steam Deck any day. Like, and like of course, all these companies are like uh Steam Valve and ASU.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Instead.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah. Yeah. Valve and ASU instead.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah, yeah. And if you know me, that's really weird that I'm actually telling you to go out and buy an Apple product.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, Valve and Asus and and and and Lenovo with their Legion Go and all this, they're all, you know, oh, it's it's the cost of doing business right now because of the shortages and it's that other thing. And I'm like, I'm like, sure. But this a one terabyte is a one terabyte seam deck now costs more. I don't think they will either. But the thing of it is that a one terabyte seam deck now costs more than a PlayStation 5 Pro. Right. That's insane. And like new letters for you. Yeah, right. Well, and and and the same component crisis that they're blending all this on has already delayed the Steam machine and the Steam uh VR, the new Steam VR headset that everybody was talking about at the end of last year.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

But the Steam Machine doesn't need any bad PR before it's ever gone on sale. Right. That's what you've just done.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Right. But my my thing is like when I I I was saying this to a buddy of mine uh uh on on the Star Wars Discord earlier, I was like, look, like this is four-year-old handheld architecture that just raised its price by $200 plus, right? When that happens, the market's completely fucked. Right? You know the market is broken. Because, like you're you're it's at like you're not gonna be. Well, right, but it but right right, but it but but but i i if if if if you want to talk about like the the market being broken, like what you've actively done is made old tech, outdated technology a luxury item, which is insane. Like, and and like if you didn't buy if you really wanted a Steam Deck, let's say you're dead set on a Steam Deck because you like what the Steam Deck has, right? And you haven't bought one already, and you don't want to go buy a refurbed one, which which the refurb ones are still a good deal. For whatever reason, the refurb L C D models are meaning uh for now. Well, well, I mean they are refurbished models, let's be fair. If they tried to raise the price on refurbs, people would get a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Parts are just as expensive. True. Well, yeah, yes, you're trying to get parts are just as expensive. Yeah, it's true. So I can almost guarantee you those prices are gonna go up pretty soon. But they may not jump the full 200 bucks, but I bet they go up. Yeah, but it's I bet everything goes up by about a hundred.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah, fair. It's like if you really wanted a Steam Deck and you didn't buy one like last year or up to now, you're kind of screwed. Like we're seeing well, and like for all the shit that people give Nintendo, right, about raising the price of the Switch 2, at least they announced it six months ahead of time. Right. And they're like, hey, on September 1st, that price goes up. So you've got six months if you really want one to buy it before the price goes up. Right. I cannot believe I'm saying I cannot believe I'm saying good job, Nintendo, here, but the parent's what I'm saying. Oh, you're true.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

It's marketing 101. True, but it's but I'm not saying it wasn't a good thing. It was. Well, it was and it wasn't. Obviously, price increases are never good. Right. But they did warn you. And they warned you with plenty of time.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Fair. All right, and then you uh you you saw a thing about Stop Killing Games uh. Yeah, so Stopkilling Games in California.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Now, this is not a done deal. This is going, but it's going to this this bill is going to move forward. They tried to stop this bill from going to the floor and they have failed. EAS has failed. Now, Stop Killing Games has beaten ES the EAS lobby like three times now. Um so the upshot is just hitting this real quick, yeah, is if this goes through, and this is in California, then an operator would provide the purchase would have we require the operator, provide the purchaser with an alternative, an alternate version of a patch or update to keep the game playable, the game as provided, and prevent prevent the operator from selling, leasing, or otherwise distributing a version of the game that cannot be used by the purchaser independent of services controlled by the operator, or they must issue a full refund. Now, on the surface, that sounds pretty fing cool, doesn't it? Sure does, but we don't live with the guys. This is also, by the way, what's killing live service. Because Crimson Desert is not reliant on servers. Right. First Light, not reliant on servers. Arguably the survival games we play, not really reliant, not really servers. You can peer-to-peer those. So what is going to happen is all these multiplayer games, if all this starts going through and now they have to provide you a way to play this game when they shut down the servers, what I think what you're going to see is an absolute return to single-player gaming. Um, because there's no return on investment now. I either have to make sure that I provide you a way to keep playing it once I can't afford to run the servers anymore, or I have to give you all the money back that you gave me. Thus, again, defeating the purpose of developing the game in the first place, it becomes the cost-benefit analysis, swings the other way. There's no money in it. Literally no money in it. I I am as much as I like the idea of stop killing games, don't at me, chat. I really do like the idea of it. I'm not entirely sure they've thought this through completely, and we're going to see some unintended consequences from this. Yep. I'm an lose your Call of Duty, who are you gonna burn? You ain't gonna burn the company, you're gonna go right after these guys. Yep. Suddenly it's gonna be their fault. Why? Because that's what we've seen time and time and time again. But I I I like the idea of it. Nobody likes losing a game, which conveniently brings us to our last topic. Oh right. Sure. But that's gonna cost them money too, Val. In order to do that, they're gonna have to pre-plan that. Right, yeah. Which is gonna cost them money.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Um now, granted, it does it's like every game, I think, whenever the bill goes into effect, there's a few months after that where it actually takes effect. Yeah. So up until that point, you're fine. But after that, you have to provide a way for them to continue to play it. And again, on the surface, I applaud this. I I'm all for it. I frankly, if I could play Anthem single player, I would. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. If I could play the multiplayer part of it single player, I absolutely would, because the moment-to-moment gameplay is still pretty good. Yep. Um absolutely. Well, they were supposed to. They were supposed to, and then the NEA got cold feet. Yeah, that's basically.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Which which brings us to the big, big news is June 9th will be the last update to Destiny 2. It will then go basically into bug fix and maintenance mode. Most of a lot of those developers will be moved to Marathon. The rest of them will be moved on to another new pastures. There's huge ramifications for this, not just the fact that Destiny 2 is dying. Destiny 3 is not greenlit in any way, shape, or form. Sony basically put the entire impairment on Destiny 2. Yep. Um, which is I mean, well, not entirely the thing, but it's also not entirely not the thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

I was gonna say we we say that, but then what then what other choice did they have? Because Destiny 2 at the time.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Well, at the time at the time they took this at the time. Let's just put it on Destiny as a whole. Well, sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

But at the time they took this impairment on, right? But at the time they took this impairment on it.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Was Marathon in development when they bought Bungie? Uh yeah, yes. And it ain't all destiny, so but the thing of that.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

But it was their only active game. Marathon wasn't active yet. So you're still spending money on it. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

That's you're still spending money on it, so that's still part of the outflow of your company. Yeah. So now to say, oh, the entire problem was over here, not that, oh, by the way, we got our ass sued off for Marathon and had to go back and redesign half the fucking game. Right. And then tag the guy that we stole his artwork. I mean, right. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

I mean, look, my thing is like Sony right now is burying their fucking head in the sand, right? They're shifting the entire studio to a to marathon, which is a niche game, it's a distraction shooter that is currently, let's be real, it is it is not performing great. We've talked about this before, right? It's performing okay, but it's facing these weird, uh, let's call them what they are, identity crisis issues, right? Along with community backlash, a lot of it now because of them basically destroying destiny, cannibalizing destiny, whatever you want to call it. I mean, they've been destroying destiny for years, so right, but but what I'm saying is the the the narrative that's coming out that that's being put forth is that they're cannibalizing what's left of destiny and the destiny team to continue to develop Marathon, which is weird because they're moving they're moving away from their multi-billion dollar flagship IP to something that is completely unproven that most people have said they don't want to play. And look, if you if you like marathon and you want to play marathon, please enjoy the game.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

The thing about that, though, is the thing about that is marathon is uh is uh maintainable with a much smaller team. Right. That's that's the there is a petition out there on change.org to ask Sony to develop Destiny 3. Right. It has passed just past just past 275,000.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

I was gonna say, when I when I when I wrote the notes, the show notes, it was at 200 no it was in near 200,000, and that was a dead two days.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

275,743 to be exact currently. Now look, um my name is on it. I know bird's name is on it. However, I ain't holding my breath. Um, but I agree that is the better pathway forward. Um, if you because it has here's the thing about marathon. Marathon has zero mass appeal. Adding PVE to marathon won't fix that.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Well, and and then they they they just announced today, too, that marathon's gonna have like a free week or whatever leading into season two World One Season 2. I was like, I was like, I don't care. I don't give a shit about your game. I'm not gonna play I'm not gonna pick up and play your game because it's free.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I was half interested, I'll be honest, I was half interested in what they were gonna do with PvE and Marathon. Now I don't care. Yep, now I don't care. And because now it's a principle of the matter, you've killed the game off that I do love to make to try to force me to a game I actually don't like at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

So like look, do I think this will move the needle? Do I think that it should? Yes. Do I think that's significant? Do I do no no no hold on, hold on. Let me finish. Do I think that it should? Yes. Do I think that it will? Probably not. Because look, Sony What a Sri Weekend? No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the the the the the uh PvE thing?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Well here's the thing. Until they establish what they're permanently gonna add, nobody really knows. Because all these new things coming are temporary.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

I was talking about the the the destiny petition, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Oh it won't move the needle because Sony's already made this call. So and they're a big enough company that they just don't care.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Well, that's it is is like I I I think it should move the needle, but I don't think that it will. Because again, they've they've blamed that, you know, almost $800 million impairment solely on Destiny. They don't care about, you know, internet signatures and community outcry is they care about balance sheets, right? At the end of the day, that's what the C-suite executives and the number crunchers are caring about. Right. And those are the people who made this call. They don't care about the content creators who make their living off of Destiny, they don't care about the people who played Destiny for 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Well, they don't care about conflicted on that particular subject, by the way. Um, the thing about it is too is everybody is blaming the C-suite for this. I agree that the lion's share of blame belongs to the C-suite. And not all of it. Some of it is the choices that the devs made, also ignoring the community and ignoring all of the signs that said this was going to fail, and they did it anyway. Well and then it failed. And then they act like it's all our fault, even though they got warned.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Well, right, but are are are you talking when you say devs, are you talking about like management of Del Valma? Are you talking because like the devs, every rank and foul devs have no say in that? They just they just do what they're told to do.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

At some point, even if they push it. So you're telling me, so you're telling me that every feature ever added to Destiny was created by a management level person.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

I mean, it was approved by mean-level for sure. Approved, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

And sometimes created by them.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

No, but it's but but sometimes, unfortunately, and you know this as well as I do, in when when you're working at wherever you're working, you have to do shit you don't want to do. Because you need a job. And unfortunately, I think that what's the point of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

What I'm saying is at some point these devs got behind some decisions they shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, okay, fair. Fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Or at least, or at least didn't didn't put up enough of a fight or or put it up enough of a 100% of this does not belong only on Pete Parsons' car collection. No, sure, but I I Which actually, if you if you run the numbers, is nothing. It's absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Sure, no, but but but but i i i i i i i I I think that I I think the villainizing of Pete Parsons, which is which is well deserved. I'm not I'm I'm not gonna sit here and say that Pete Parsons deserves no blame. No, Pete Parsons fucking deserves deserves a lot of the blame for this because he sold Sony on the fact that Bungie, well, yeah, yeah. From what I was reading and from my contacts that I have spoken to, right? He sold Sony on the fact that Bungie not only had Destiny and Marathon, but they had other projects they were working on actively that were vaporwork.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

All of them were shit canned. Yeah, they were um but the thing is that it's it's never at the end of the day, it's it's it's never 100%. No, yeah. There were bad decisions made across the the history of Destiny 2. Starting here's where Destiny 2 truly started to die when the content vault appeared. Yep. That is when Destiny truly started to die. That is the moment that it was and I said this then, I said it just now a matter of time. Because when you rip out half your game, which also cost them money in court, because they couldn't prove anything on the author who came at them about the Red War, because they couldn't recreate that, because not only did they vault it, they apparently just got rid of it and couldn't put it back in any form. Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Well we which we which which makes all of the times they said, oh, we can add remove content from the vault as we see fit super fucking disingenuous, Bungie. Because you lied. You flat out. I mean, you I very you obviously could not do that. You had no intention of adding and removing content from the vault. You just wanted to keep adding content to the vault. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

They never had any intention of putting anything of rotating shit through there. Um, you know, and you you destroyed the new light, the new player experience in your game. What you replaced it with is absolute shite. Yep. Um and and I've I've I've tried it. The thing of it is like look, look, I will find it. Having played both of those new light experiences lately, yeah, I can categorically say the Destiny 1 one is far better. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Correct. Agreed. I I will forever be grateful to Destiny for what it did for me personally, right? Um, not only did it help me launch a career in games media, right? Because uh uh uh Destiny was the first AAA game to really take us seriously as an outlet way back when. Right? Sure. They were the first one to invite us to all these events and do all this stuff and and whatever, right? Like they they they they were the I the they they are the reason that I'm sitting here with you right now, if you really break it down. They're part of the reason that I that that that that that that that I got the career that I have because I was able to turn my career in games media into content creation, into product management, right? Like, like that that all happened really because of because of Bungie and Destiny taking us seriously. So I will forever be grateful for that. That being said, I'm not going to sit here and and again it and and and and and say that oh well destiny should never end. Right? We've talked about this. It was always going to end. It was always going to end.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Well, I got a bridge to sell you.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Right. It was always going to end. That being said, right? That being said, the best case scenario, and we've talked about this before, the best case scenario would have been for the final shape to come out. And then Bungie to go, hey. Um, so the final shape is starting. We're gonna start developing Destiny 3. Uh, we're gonna give you we're gonna give you some seasonal updates, some little stuff here and there, some events, stuff like that. We're gonna mostly go away for a while.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Which when we come back, dev's in the devs favor was based on some articles that we've read lately, was in fact suggested, and that was turned directly down by the C-suite. So that part, all the C-suite.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Yeah, well because because because we don't want to spend another, you know, 200 or 300 million on but how much but how much fucking money are you spending on fucking marathon to bleed money?

SPEAKER_00 42:50

You spent 10 years developing the light and dark saga, and then you ended it. Yep. There's nowhere to go at that point. Right. You're done. You're done. You destroyed the one ring. The mountain blew up.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Sauron is dead. Right? Okay, now you gotta reset. Well, and then and then the the the the the whole thing, the thing that really pissed me out as a destiny lore fan, right, is all the tweets going, hey, by the way, we pitched Destiny 3 or the next Destiny big expansion with fucking Z Vu Wrath, and you're never gonna see it. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

I don't give a shit. I think there are other stories that need to be told.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

I agree, but at the same time, how long have they built up Z Vu Wrath? And then now it's like, yeah, well, sorry, fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Well, you still got the winnower and shit out there, too, which is just dumb. Here's the thing, too. I don't give two shits about uncovering the mystery of the nine. Part of the thing that makes the nine cool is the mystery. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. When you show somebody how the magic trick is done. It loses its magic. Yep. Agreed. I would agree. And that's where the storytelling in this game has gotten at this point. Yeah. And so, but anyway, whatever. It's done and it sucks. I'm just as upset as anyone else. I don't want Destiny to go away. I like Destiny. I have, like a normal person, over a thousand hours in Destiny. Yeah. And Destiny, and both of them. So and so I was looking at so like I was looking at some numbers. I uh Cross was putting out numbers the other day, and so was Bife. And I'm like, yeah, but guys, no offense. You don't fucking count. It's your job. Do this shit for a living.

unknown 44:39

Right?

SPEAKER_00 44:40

You're doing this eight at times you're doing this eight, ten, twelve hours a day. Right. With nothing else to do. Right. When you look at somebody like the rest of us, aggressively casual, who have a full-time job and kids, and yet I still have over a thousand hours in this game. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yep. And well, and the thing of it is okay, so so let's let's talk about real quick. Uh uh we've been dooming glooming for a little while, but we are getting on June 9th a fairly significant update to Destiny. Yeah. Like we're getting portals going away. We're getting we're getting we're getting the Monument of Triumph, which will be available to all players as a free update. Um basically, it is going to include the following things. The director's coming back, the portal's going away. Apparently, you can still access portal activities at the bottom of the director, but the portal never should have been a thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

It's just getting hidden. But the portal it will not be the main thing again. The director will now be the main thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Right. The portal never should have gone away in the first place. Never should have been a thing in the first place. The director should have won the first thing. Okay, that being said, uh, we're also getting Pantheon 2.0, which I'm really excited about. Um that was one of those decisions that they shouldn't have made. Right, exactly. Uh, we're getting Raid and Dungeon loot updates, so all Raid Dungeon weapons will have armor uh and armor have been revisited to bring them to the modern standards with full tier parity, set bonuses, new perks, and more. Whatever that's cool because awesome, cool. Um uh destinations, uh uh uh destination weapons and armor have also been revisited to bring them to modern standards with full tier parity set bonuses, yada yada yada. Um sandbox has new aspects.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Uh uh Translation, we're doing all that stuff to gear that we should have done three years ago.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Right. Uh we're getting a new solar hunter, uh new void warlock uh aspect, a new solar titan aspect. A new hunter's getting a new melee. Uh there are two new grenades coming for all classes. Uh there are class specific abilities for everybody that are coming. Um, and then their exotic articles. Full translation.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

We're dumping everything that we've been working on the least little bit into this. Right. The thing is, my fear is this is going to be a complete and total shit show. Because how much of this stuff is really finished and ready to go, how much of this stuff was half done, and they're like, fuck it, throw it in there anyway. Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

On the downside, on the downside, all seasonal events are being retired, which is what happens when a game goes in maintenance mode.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Uh we are getting sparrow racing.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

We that was what I was gonna say, but so so uh uh so seasonal events are being retired. Armor ornament sets that are previously available for bright dust, we've made available not only through direct exchange, but also through bright dust engram focusing, which is new. That's cool. Um you will still be able to purchase silver because of course you will. They still want to make money off of it.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

So I'm gonna give them a pass with that one.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

To be fair, to be fair, that that that that that silver purchase hangs over your entire bungee account. So if you buy silver, it applies for both D1 and D2. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

It's it's a good thing. But the point is, there's still an Eververse store in D1.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

There's much less in it. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

But there is an Eververse store in D1.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Um, so they they they added they they they they added a an updated rewards pass uh that apparently was originally planned for Shadow and Order. Of course they will have a new hand cannon armor ornaments uh and a bunch more stuff. They've also increased the number of cosmetic rewards on the pass, including multiple armor ornament sets, ghosts, shaders, and and everything that's like they're like and more. Yes, we said and more twice. Look, we put a lot of extras on this thing. We hope you enjoy it. I'm like, well, yeah, you have to. It's the last one, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Um of that false jovy joviality, fuck off. Just give me the information.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Right. And then uh uh uh exotic armor transmog is actually happening now. So that's thank you. Why did it think the game dying? And then, of course, the thing you mentioned, the thing why again, why did it take the game dying for this to happen? Sparrow League Racing returns. The thing I've been thing I've literally been clamoring for since Destiny 2 launched.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Nine years, because that's the last time that we saw Sparrow Racing right before the release of the Taken King.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Like, I've been clamoring for this.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

So eight years, because I think it came back once after that. It did come back once after that. So eight years people have been saying, where the hell is sparrow racing?

SPEAKER_02 49:17

That being said, uh, they did announce today um Rockstar thinks Red Dead Online is still successful, Val. Just because it, I mean, it's monetarily, it is. Yeah. Um that that being said, um, they did announce two hours ago that the first developer insight into Destiny 2's final update will land tomorrow morning uh at 8 a.m. Pacific, where they're gonna talk through the return of the director and um the recently announced distortions activity for destinations and some other things. And the Twitter'll be live on Friday talking about uh weapons sandbox.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

So we're getting to sparrow racing and destiny rising kind of sucks. They they they did it, they they had they gave it a good shot. The sparrow racing of being a mobile game, it's it's I think I feel like I can walk faster in Destiny Rising than the Sparrows, to be honest. Um as much as I like Destiny Rising, and I do, uh the Sparrows are kind of lacking. Uh that's the one thing where I'm like, this kind of sucks.

SPEAKER_03 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Um, I would like to see them give a pure PC port to Destiny Rising so that you no longer had to play it through an emulator.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

The thing is, I don't think they're gonna do that because Rising is Rising has lost 95% of its player base.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Sure, so is Destiny 2, and it it was still around for years. What's your point?

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Well, right, but Rising is uh Rising is not making NetEase any money. And if NetEase doesn't make money, they generally at some point fairly soon, one would one would probably one would surmise.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Yeah. So the first descendant's still making money. Right. Uh but yeah that being said rising was a good good it was a good concept. Unfortunately, once you chose to go mobile game, you hump you you you kind of hamstring hamstrung yourself from the very get-go. Now you've got some you've got some hardware limitations you have to be able to deal with in. That being said, I like the story behind Rising. I like the way they went. They they made everything for for an alternate history type of thing, everything made sense. Well, which is unusual.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

It it it it's not even it it's that rising was a good time. My thing is that like the whole thing with with Destiny is that you play as your guardian, right? Right. And that did not be.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

As soon as you make it a hero game, I'm I my my interest level goes down.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yeah, as as as as as as as soon as you take it from my guardian that I got to create or customize or have a story with or whatever. To some gotcha character that I grabbed, that's where my bugbear comes into play. And I'm like, I agree. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

And we talked about this in other games. I I don't even like role, like, to be honest, I have a similar issue with 007 in the fact that I'm not playing my own dude, right? Fair. Oh, you got him before I did. Uh so AI viewers now, huh? Damn, now you're not even selling real views. Now it's AI views. I know, right? All the way off. Not just halfway off, all the way off. But yeah, I I don't like hero games because again, I and I don't like I even have this kind of this problem with like I at least with Mass Effect, I could design my own Shepherd, right? So he at least looked the way I wanted him to look. Um which to be fair, I ended up using the default shepherd because it was I was like, that's kind of the best looking one. Right. Um but anyway, yeah. That's that was a rising problem. It's like, oh, it's it's I'm not playing my guardian, I'm just playing whatever guardian I have handy. Um that is that is definitely a downfight. If you would take take the same game and give me an actual character creator without all the gotcha shit, I played it.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

So I didn't mind I didn't mind the gotcha whatever as a con I I don't have a problem with gacha games as long as the the odds aren't absolutely terrible. And Destiny Risings weren't actually. Still shit, because that it's all gambling, right? But uh so yeah. Had Destiny Rise Destiny Rising's problem too is it came along too late, right? Right had it it came along after Destiny 2 had already shot itself in the foot. Um and that's before it shot itself in the foot 14 more times. Um it sucks. It'll be interesting to see if some and the thing about that is even if they do green light destiny three in a couple years, most of the people that made Destiny Destiny 2 will be gone. Right. They ain't coming back. You're gonna have to pay them big bucks to come back, and that ain't gonna happen. So what happens is all that institutional knowledge that's irreplaceable goes out the window. Right. So you're gonna basically get Bioware all over again because the games that Bioware makes now are not the games that bioware used to make.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is we we we we kind of touched on this, but like you where you had mentioned like the people who had like the the the content creators who kind of made this their job, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah, I'm I I'm kind of conflicted on that, I'll be honest. Um on the one hand, I'm like, well shit, that sucks. But on the other hand, I'm like, you you had to have known this wasn't going to last forever, and you have no exit plan, right? You have no pivot. You've got no pivot. A lot of them, a lot of them have no pivot. Cross started a pivot a few years back, right? To where Destiny was not a good one.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

But like I I saw Life will be fine. I saw uh data will be fine, he's been doing deadlock for a while. Right. I saw I saw Cacus be like, so uh anybody know any good looter shooters that are coming out? Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

And I'm like, my my some um Sweatsickle, uh Vase, Evaze, who's another history guy. Um yeah, those guys I'm a bit concerned that they're not gonna be able to pivot. Uh because Bice's been doing uh lore for like Warframe and a couple other games as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Um so yeah, well, and people are like I just I I don't know, like there's there's this big community initiative to you know log in on June 9th and and show the game some as as much support as possible. And you know, and I might log in, I ain't buying shit. And spend money on the Eververse. And I'm like I'm like I have some I I I have some silver that I've banked, I'm not gonna spend new money.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Like I have no interest in dropping any extra money on it, but like I have to do that. I'm not giving them any more money at this point. Yeah, I have silver that's sitting there that I'll find something to spend it on.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Yeah, backtics will be fine. Yeah, but there's some that that only do Destiny 2. That's it. They've never done anything else. They built their channel on that, and they don't they don't have a pivot. So it's like, how fast can you pivot, boys? Right. Because you're gonna need to. Because you're gonna need to. And the weird thing is we're talking about like this game's getting shut off. It's not, but the problem is with no new content, the interest level will fall.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Well, then that's the thing, is is is it is is like, okay, I how so let's say let's say the plan, right? This is my question, right? Let's say that the plan is for everybody to log on on June 9th and play the game, right? Okay, how long how long do we need to see these sustained numbers for?

SPEAKER_00 57:16

So now we're Rockstar once a month spiking the viewers. Yeah, I saw that video.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Right. But but do you know what I mean? Like, how long, like, like like are we are are are are we saying that okay, like we're gonna be we're gonna need to sustain these numbers for a week, two weeks, a month to get Sony to sustainable to get Sony to change.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

And here's the thing, it doesn't it doesn't change the problems with Destiny 2.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Well, right.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

That's the problem. So and I'm I just simply uh refuse to play a game I don't like anymore.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Right, but the idea that people have, right, is that it's wrong. And again, they're they're probably wrong. But what I'm saying is the idea that they have is that it is that if there is interesting. That is shown it's not gonna move the needle.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

But uh again, the idea that they have is that if if enough interest is shown, it could potentially move the needle with Sony again. I don't think it's likely. I don't think that it will.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

But I think that I think logging into Destiny 2 and do shit. That petition has a better chance of moving the needle than a bunch of people logging in on June 9th.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

I think that doing nothing will obviously get nothing, right? So they're trying everything they can to keep Destiny alive. Because the wording that Bungie chose in that first couple of paragraphs.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

I'll log in, but I am not spending money.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Yeah, not happening. But like the wording that's- Hate me all you want, chat. The wording that Bungie chose in the in that in those first couple paragraphs was very specific. And it it's vague for a reason. Right? And yeah, that's what I was about is is that all the stuff that they're dropping to keep people engaged. But it ain't gonna hold me. But I don't think it's gonna keep anybody beyond a month.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Because you're not changing the fundamental problems with the game, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:02

They need it and again, they need a new they need a new game to do that.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

And I just go to Destiny 3. Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

And I don't I don't see that happening, and and because I don't see Sony wanting to spend again that 200 to 300 million dollar investment.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Here's the thing. I can't we keep throwing out these numbers. I think that number is bullshit, by the way. Here's what I think is gonna happen. Yeah, they're gonna kill it, they're gonna let it die. They're gonna do and here's what I think is going to happen. I don't think marathons is sustainable right now. I don't I don't have confidence that the company that exists can make marathon sustainable. They're gonna have to do a lot to make me interested in buying it.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Um now, I'll be honest. I will in fact be completely honest. You put in a permanent, full PvE mode, I might buy it. Because the shooting is fine. I don't think the shooting's as good as Destiny. Some people do, I don't, even though it's the same gun models. Um but I think Marathon is gonna fail at the end of the day. I I don't think it's sustainable, or it'll be such a small game that it won't matter. Bungie as an entity will cease to exist completely. They they pretty much already do, by the way. But it just it'll get erased. Those people will get folded into Sony systems, but Sony now owns the IP, and I think five or six years down the road, you'll get something that's called Destiny 3, but it won't be nearly as ambitious.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

I I would agree. And and that because because but then again, you're talking about a company who's known for letting IPs sit and die. Um, you know, twisted metal, uh Killzone, uh Ratchet or not Ratchet and Clank, but Daxter and Jax. Um because they just don't think there's any money and continuing those series. There's a list, that's just the first ones that come to mind that I know Sony owns. Um so it wouldn't surprise me if this is it. This is the end. This is all the destiny we ever get. Yeah. Um well, right, because a company that big, Concord, so we keep talking about Concord. And while there have been some notable examples, those are still the exception rather than the rule. Yeah. Marathon is closer to the actual rule. A game comes out, it doesn't hit nearly as hard as they think it should, and so they start milking it. And that's usually what happens. Concorde, um, what was the other one? Uh what was the other one we were just playing? That just got shut this again shut that got shut down. Uh that just came out the extraction e shooter thingy. Oh, Highgard. Highgard. Those are kind of the exception rather than the rule. Um they're notable, but they're really not that much different than Anthem, other than the quickness with which they sunk it down. Um so we'll see. I think Marathon will limp around limp along for a few years. I would like to say that, hey, they could turn that around, but you've got what another thing that we haven't talked about is what this has done is polarized the communities. Oh, yeah. There's a war going on right now, metaphorically speaking, um, between the destiny community and the hard marathon community. Um you've just what Sony has also done is alienated a large part of the people that they actually need to buy into Marathon. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm gonna go back to Cross. Cross a day, he's he's put out a video, he's like, not playing it, I'm done. Even he's like, sorry to you know, DeFrostbolt and all the guys, because they were supposed to play it this weekend. He's like, not happen. Right. It's uninstalled, not doing it. Now, whether he sticks to that or not, whatever, he's like, I don't care, I'm gonna burn bridges, I'll probably never talk to Sony again after this video. But he didn't pull any punches and he let him fly. He told him you know what he thought, you know. And whether you like Cross or not, dude has over a million subscribers, is one of, if not the largest community in the Destiny community. Yeah, and acknowledged by Paul Tassey, that article is hilarious, by the way. Um, because he even puts a thing in there that says, Hi, Cross, if you're reading this on your video in the art in the article, yeah, which made me chu which made me laugh.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Uh yeah, that was good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Uh and cross was like, that's weird. You know, because it's like a very meta moment all of a sudden. But uh, you know, he basically said, I don't I don't care. I don't give a damn if Sony ever contacts me again. Right. You're killing the game that I love. So get bit, you know. Right. Um, and they're not and he's not the only one. Uh my feed is full of of Destiny 2 content right now, of pretty much the same opinion. Um I'm not that different of an opinion. I just I'm pragmatic. And if they try to make Marathon a go and give me what I want, I will honor that by giving it a try. Right. Um if for once they listen to the community. Um that's a good joke. Which is which is which is right, which is the problem, which is how we got here in the first place by completely ignoring the community. Not and don't get me wrong, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Devs do not need to live and die by what their community wants, because in general, very few players are cognizant enough to say this is good for the game. What they care about is what is good for me, right? And what is good for me as a as a player is not necessarily good for the game as a whole. Yeah. Maybe marathon is the same way. Maybe PvE and Marathon just don't belong. That's okay. That's cool. I just won't play it. And that's fine. It's okay. There's I have a plethora of other games that I'm looking at on my desktop right now that I can play. I have a bunch of I have a PS5 sitting right here with a bunch of games on it that I can play, none of which are marathon. So that's all good. That's fine. Um I am saying if they make those changes that that I that I would like to see, I will honor that and spend the 40 bucks and pick up the game. Fair. Yeah. And again, I still don't want done I still don't want Bungie to die as an entity. I know. You guys think we hate this company. We really don't. That's the problem. It would be easier if I did. Right. It would be much easier to sit here and go, well, I saw that shit coming. You know. Told ya. But that's that's really not the case. It's not what we want. I want Destiny. I love Destiny. I didn't at first. I d and it wasn't the world I didn't like, it was the original gameplay I didn't like. Um but then by the time we were taking King Rolls around and I gave it another shot, I was like, oh hey, they have made some changes. Right. Okay. And I honored that by proceeding to pay play their stupid game for 10 years. But it's just it's it's just one of those things. But games do have their time. You know, and and again, I don't want what I want is not Destiny 2. What I want is Destiny 3. Right, yeah. I need something new at this point. Yeah. Um, I don't even really want Destiny 1, although objectively it's overall the better game. And it's certainly the more complete package now. Because even if Destiny 2 continues to exist, it still exists in this fractured state of you're not really going to bring in a lot of new players because the new player experience is total shit. Right. And it's confusing, and there's no no real guidance, and you know, um so yeah. It sucks. It does. Death of a game, uh death of a beloved game is never a good thing. No. Guess what? At some point, you will stop playing Skyrim.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Because something else will come along. Yep. For me, it's probably Crimson Desert. I can see myself playing that game a while. Right. Especially as they continue to evolve that game. Right. I did talk you into playing. And you sunk $5,000 into it. You're welcome. Yeah, exactly. You think you got your money's worth mostly. I think that was just it. I think you got your money worth there, Belle. I was getting to the point where I didn't feel like I was getting my money's worth when I continued to give Bungie money. Right. You know, and so you gotta make me feel like I'm getting money's money.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

So many bits. Oh my god. Yay, bits. That is so many bits. Holy crap! Are those? Thanks, Bell. Auddy bits. Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

But yeah, I mean, overall, like, I think that we we we we we've talked about this a lot on this show and a lot on this channel. Is that we have always wanted Bungie and Destiny to succeed, and now that we're coming to the end of that that that rope, right? We we we we we we we said about a month ago, right, how long is that rope that that that Sony's gonna give Bungie? We've we found out. Right? Found out and and and overall, um it just it's it it it's it it it's they're at the end of their rope and they've discovered that there's not enough rope left to tie a knot in and hold on. Right, exactly. They they they've run on a rope, they cannot, they they cannot hold on forever, and it results in one of the most polarizing and f community fracturing things to happen in a long time. And and and and look, do I think it's a dumb decision that they're making in terms of basically shuttering Destiny 2, putting it on maintenance mode, whatever you want to call it, without having a plan in place to move Destiny forward? Absolutely, because Destiny is what brought what what brought Bungie to the fucking table with Sony in the first place. And the fact that they're willing to let that community and those people and the people who are passionate as fuck about this, people the fact that they're willing to look them in the eye and go, yeah, I get fucked, basically, is really frustrating and really stupid.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Because now Sony, but here's the thing that's not Sony's player base, they don't care. I mean it's their player base now, they own Bungie. Sure. But but it's not the player base that they brought to the table.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

So there's less care there. Obviously, arguably the C-suite doesn't give a damn anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

Well, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:09

It's all numbers on a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

It's all numbers on a spreadsheet, and then go, well, this one sucks, this one doesn't, right? It's the reason that the ghost of the ghost of Yote or Ghost and Ghost of Tsushima multiplayer didn't get further fleshed out. Because while people loved it, it didn't get the numbers that it needed to sustain. Like that's is what it is. At the end of the day, in in this industry, if you're not making money, there's no point in keeping you around. And it's harder and harder to make money.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

To be fair, that's business in general, right? If you're not making money, you're not gonna stay around. Right. And and that's the problem. But Bungie is not making nearly enough money.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

But the point the the point is when it comes when it comes to when it comes to Bungie and Destiny and Marathon and whatever specifically, is that like is that is that they're they're not necessarily making enough money, but it's also becoming harder and harder for them to make money based on the decisions that Sony continues to make. And you have to wanna I've seen some wild speculation on Twitter.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

Oh, there's some speculation that's out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

I have seen some wild speculation on the Twitter machine.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

This is their plan all along. Right. Their plan all along was to spend four point, you know, four billion dollars to just lay everybody off and let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

Right, or even, or my my my favorite one was well, you know, Microsoft should swoop in and buy it back from from from or buy it from Sony. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? In what reality would that ever happen?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

Especially these days. Microsoft can't decide whether they want to keep investing in their gaming division or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

I mean, well, they they apparently do now because they're making they're making Xbox a huge fucking priority again after letting it stagday for the past few years. So good on them, honestly. Good on them for that. I hope they succeed. I really do. I really hope Microsoft succeeds in that because I'm an Xbox fan.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

The only reason I own a PS5 is because I could not find a Series X at a price I wanted to pay. Um and I wanted to play that stupid game. Uh but uh and there's other things on this I wanted to play because I can't play Spider-Man on Xbox.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Uh I won't be able to play Wolverine on the Xbox.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

I won't be able to, you know, so yeah, it is what it is. It sucks. We'll see how it plays out completely. Yeah. Um I would like to think the petition will move the needle. I'm I am way too cynical to think that will actually happen. Right. I do think though that at some point we'll see something called Destiny 3. I don't know when. I don't know when. Hopefully before I shuffle off this mortal coil. Um, you know, I would like to say hopefully before GTA 6.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:59

Listen, listen, listen, listen, cheeks, they're not gonna they're not gonna delay Destiny 3 for 30 years, okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

You know you say that. Um will we get Destiny 3 before we actually get GTA 6? Who knows? Um not that I actually care, I'm not a GTA fan. I've tried them, I've played like three of them. I I it's not a good time for me. And it's not because I have a problem with the concept, I don't. I don't like the gameplay. Right. Fair you know, I play even played GTA online, and I'm like, I don't see the appeal here. Um, but many people do. Makes an absolute mint for Rockstar. So, you know. Obviously, I am in the minority there.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

Yeah, they're going back to console exclusives and they're not releasing single-player games on PC. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

Yeah. That is at least not new titles. Once they come out, I think they'll get released at least probably a year later.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

Uh no. That's the then no.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

I bet they do. They have, no matter what they say.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Yeah, that's it. Well, right, but I'll all all I'm saying is that like from what they've said, they have no plans on bringing up bringing the PC at all. I bet that changes. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

I I would and you know, but you know, but you know how you get around that? You just hire out another company to do it for you. Yeah. And then then you're not doing it. You're just allowing it to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

Yeah. Just relax and allow it to happen. Um yeah, we'll see. They're trying to drive more stuff to the PlayStation, which obviously tells you that they're not that confident in the PlayStation. Uh I can confidently say still that overall, for me, the Xbox has far more titles that I will play than the PS that the PlayStation does. Right. Um like my PlayStation. I do. I like it a lot. And I put some stuff on it, not just MLB. Uh although ironically, now I can play Gears of War on the PlayStation. That's weird. Right. Um, that's very weird. It's kind of cool, but it's very weird. And now that I have a controller that lets me essentially use an Xbox controller with a style controller with the PlayStation, it's much better. Because I hate the PlayStation controller. I don't like the layout. It's it's my hands, it doesn't fit my hands well. It's it's not it's not that it's not a it's not it's a terrible controller, it's not. It's just I don't like the layout. The stick layout is not for me. I prefer the Xbox layout. Uh the problem is now I have a really good controller, and once you have one, there's kind of no going back.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

Uh once you use a $200 controller, you don't really go back to the $20 controller. I didn't pay $200 for it. I paid $60 for it. Right. Yeah, sorry. But it's essentially straight out of the plastic wrap. This thing obviously was never actually used more than maybe once. Uh everything is there except for the little wrench, which I didn't need anyway. Um I prompt I basically took it. I so what we're talking about is the Victrix BFG Pro controller. It is configurable to be either a PlayStation style or an Xbox style. Also, you can take one stick out and put in a fight pad, which I installed Mortal Kombat just to try that. Haven't tried it yet, but I want to. I would actually love to have two sticks and the flight pad just to get rid of the little bumper buttons completely. Just get them out of here completely. Give me a six-button bank as opposed to four and my sticks, and I'll be a happy camper. But uh it's it's retails for 200 bucks. I got it off the Facebook Marketplace for 60. I know Bird picked his up for even less. Yep. Uh so but the problem is now that I've gone to a really good controller, when this one dies, and it will, you know, it's all Hall Effects. The buttons and the buttons, the triggers, and the sticks are all Hall Effects. So it should take a while to go bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

Um, but it will eventually go bye-bye. And that's assuming that that it's not easy to just replace the stick. You know, if a stick goes bad, replace it. Right. That sort of thing. I did in fact get it configured for the PC and swap it back and forth. So my really nice game sur controller is now in the drawer as my backup. Nice, but the game sur controller actually has some weird stick calibration issues now. Um, like I showed you the other night, that left stick is now off-center. There's no drift in it, but the stick itself is physically off-center. I don't again, this the steam controller is too close to a PlayStation controller. It's got those close-in sticks. That's what I don't like. Yeah, fair. Um that that's the part I don't like. So uh everything else says that's a really good controller, actually. Uh, but it takes a third-party app to work outside of Steam. So that's a problem for that's a problem too. Uh to use it with non-Steam games takes a third-party app to make it work. Yeah. So and I do still have quite a few non-Steam games. A lot of EA games, a lot of GOG games, some Epic games, some Ubi, you know. So um well, right, it doesn't work with the game. You there there's a third-party app that will make it work, is my point. Yeah. Um but that's just it. I'm spending $100 on a controller, then now I have to go get another app to make it work. And don't get me wrong, if I'd had to pay full price for this controller, I would not have it. I I I I can't quite bring myself to pay $200 for a controller. Uh for a Hotos setup, maybe. Yeah. Um but for just a controller, no. And uh, you know, and whatever, it's on me. I get it. But I'll certainly pay $60 for a $200 controller. Um because I'm paying $60 for a controller anyway, or $70 now, right? Uh so yeah, but yeah, the problem with the Steam controller is the stick layout. I don't like where the sticks sit. I like my offset sticks. It's just a personal thing, and it's been that way forever since the original Xbox brick and the PlayStation 1. Except the PlayStation 1 controllers I actually like better because they were the stick the sticks were wider. The stick the stick separation was wider. Um it's not till you get to the PS3 where we get what's what I consider the quote unquote modern style controller, which is what I don't like. Um but that's it's a it's a personal thing, right? Yeah. But this controller's pretty dang cool. Um it it hasn't it has in fact improved my response time in MLB. I still get it for shit, but it's but it's improved. It's improved, it's improved the speed with which I miss the ball. Um because my eyeballs are old. I I just can't find a a setting that I like. Because I'm not I'm not interested in playing it competitively online, so I don't necessarily need all of the PCI flickies and shit. Um I just want to play some baseball. You know, hit the occasional home run and play some baseball. Makes sense. But yeah, I also installed uh like I said, I installed Mortal Kombat, Gears of War, uh Mankind Divided. So I may stream some of that. Gears of War is a hell of a game.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:36

I love the Gears of War series. Um Gears of War 2 and 3 are peak. Gears of War 1 has some issues just because it's the first game in the series and they hadn't figured everything out yet. Yeah, but it's still really good. Uh Gears of War 2 is good, Gears of War 3, which is obviously the end of the original story, is is really cool. There's some moments in it that piss me off story-wise. I was like, no. Um they were great story beats, don't misunderstand me. I was just like, oh man, dang it, no. No spoilers if you haven't. But there's you would think that in a shooter about just macho dudes, that they wouldn't have any story beats that would make you give a shit. Right. You would be wrong.

unknown 1:21:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

You would be incorrect.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

There's a couple story beats towards the end of the story where you're like, oh my god. Plot twist? Right. Uh right.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:36

You know, one in particular that you I think that'd be great to see you play the yeah, to uh to see you play through some of those. Um uh because I I I I used to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:47

Hey, Gears of War is only Gears of War is on sale right now until tomorrow for like 20 bucks. Uh and it is it is do it is duo playable. Ooh, that's a good deal. It's co-op playable.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:57

That might be that's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:58

It's a lot of fun co-op. That that might need to happen. Yeah, if you could swing that, grab that, and we can duo through the campaign.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:05

That might need to happen. Yeah, let me go uh check.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

We can flip a coin for which one of us gets to play Marcus and which one of us gets to play Marcus.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:13

Oh, good. The old player one, player two debate, I see. I see, I see.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:17

Right. Well, it's it's really not. It's just you can only have one of each character. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:23

Oh but yeah, other than that, chat, uh I think I think that about wraps up where we you know where we uh where we are at. I obviously the the the the destiny stuff is what it is, and unfortunately we we all knew where it was going. I just didn't think it would I didn't think it would end like this, um, especially so soon. I thought I thought we'd get you know one more expansion.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:43

And again, they had the perfect spot to go out with a bang. And instead we're going out with barely a whimper. That's the problem that's part of my problem. It's not that destiny is dying, it's that you're killing it in the wrong spot. You should have ended it at the final shape. It just should have been done. That's it. There's nowhere to go after that. And I think this has proven my point because I said it at the end of the final shape. Where do you go now? Yep. You literally we literally just beat darkness. How do you go bigger? Because you have to go bigger to make it keep it interesting. And that's the problem with both long-running novel series and game series. The bad guys have to keep getting bigger and badder and bigger and badder in a couple of years. And you have to keep appeal.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:30

Yeah, yeah. The the the the the power creep for you as a player is just insane. And I yeah, I just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

So, yeah, it's it and I have the again, there's certain novel parts, novel series that has the same problem. There's only so much bigger and badder you can make your bad guys before it just becomes ridiculous. Right, exactly. And to be fair, the stuff that has come after the final shape has been mostly very anticlimactic. Absolutely, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

And and and as as much fun as we have with had with renegades. Right. It's still just why are we why do we care? Like, what it wasn't even that. It was, it was, it was, it just ended. And you were like, oh, that was it? And then now we're gonna get a fucking resolution out of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:13

That was it. That was it. We're done. What? I remember getting to the end of that campaign and we were like, wait, wait, we're done? Wait, that's the that's the end. Wait, there's there's another couple of missions, right? Yeah, right. That's the end. But no, there was well, and it's like um at the same time, too, it's like, why the f should you know, why are you threatening? You should you're not even you're not even on the radar of threats to me at this point, and by me I mean the guardian. Right. Um, because canonically speaking, your guardian is pretty damn powerful.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:45

Right. Well, again, it's it's it's it's it's a it's the same power creep problem that we have in World of Warcraft.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:49

It's far more powerful than any of the actual Vanguard. As a matter of fact, arguably he's more powerful than all of them wrapped up together. Yeah. Because canonically, your guardian is the only one that uses light and dark at the same fucking time. Yep. Yup. You know, um, it's like, oh, listen, uh it's like Ghostbusters. Are you a god? And if the answer is no, well, you have chosen poorly. Right. And at this point, even if the answer is yes, you've still probably chosen poorly poorly. You've still chosen poorly. So, yeah, the power creep was real, but if for story purposes, they try to make this where these guys are threatening. And I'm like, yeah. It starts with Spider, right? Right. Why was Spider ever a threat? Answer, he wasn't. Technically, the first time we walk up and Spider starts spouting his shit, you really just go, okay, I'm gonna need you to give me a good reason not to tear this place down around your ears because there's nothing you can do to stop me.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:59

But, you know, he's supposed to be this impressive gangster. Yeah, settle down there, job of the butt.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:09

But yeah, it it is it is what it is. We'll keep keep an eye out on the channel for us to check out some of the D2 stuff in a couple weeks. Um yeah, we'll check it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:20

We'll see what see what they do.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

I'm sure we can convince Nell to come join us and hang out and and then have some fun. Right. Spider is down with the hunt you bought off T Mu. Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But I just it it again, it is what it is. And as always, friends, um, thanks for being here. Thanks for hanging out. We appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

Spider's not the godfather, he's the get father. God damn it, cheeks. Count it! One last time, baby. Listen, we're in the US. I can't use the word I wanted to use. Um not really.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

Like I said, guys, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate the hell of y'all. Um, I love doing the I I say this every time, but I I love doing this show. I love being able to share shit share our stupid shit on the internet with y'all.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

Believe it or not, I like it when we don't agree completely. Yeah, it makes it for a more interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

I agree. I agree. But let's let's let's find let's find someone to send y'all to. Let's see who's on this evening. Thanks for being here, guys. Thanks for all the support the past couple of weeks with the games we've been playing. It's absolutely incredible. But you know what? You know what? Speaking of Destiny 2, now playing Destiny 2. Here we go. Send you guys over to Nell Star. Treat Nell Star exactly as you treat us, guys. We love you. Be kind, choose joy, show love. Uh, I'll probably be live later with some more James Bond. We'll see, if not, definitely tomorrow. Catch you later. Love ya. Bye.