The Games Are Great. The Industry Is A Mess.

The Games Are Great. The Industry Is A Mess.

Record sales. Critical darlings. Sold-out launches. And still, thousands of developers are out of a job. This episode digs into the gap nobody in gaming wants to talk about: the industry is making more money than ever while gutting the people who make it happen.

We break down what's actually driving the layoffs (hint: it's not the games), what Bungie and Concord taught the industry the hard way, and why "the games are good" and "the industry is broken" are both true at the same time. If you've ever wondered how a $200 billion industry keeps torching its own talent, this one's for you.

New episode of Aggressively Casual, out now.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome everybody to Aggressively Casual. My name is Freebird. With me to my internet left. As always, is Cheeks. Say hi, Cheeks.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Waza. Or, you know, because I'm old. Wazza.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Oh, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Where's the I've fallen and I can't get up? Oh wait, that last one hits a little too close to home. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Man. Now I just hurt. After the weekend I had with that fever scare and my leg hurting. My beard is pretty much just white at this point. It's true, it is. But you know what? It's it's distinguished, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

No, no, it's just wall.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Alright, cheese. What's uh what's new with you? How you been? What you've been playing recently, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Um well, I I occasionally drop to Destiny to uh do a little spare racing. I've done some more sim racing. Um I'm still a dick of a bad bit. So that'll that'll be a while. Um, I tried out a few of the demos from the Nest Fest. Nothing to write home about. Uh the I still have a gaggle of them to try, so I may still find something that's cool. Thank you, Kim. Um but yeah. But most of that is what what? What is it? Oh uh most of it has been sim racing being objectively, well, not even objective, just demonstrably bad at sim racing. Uh I did get my pedals mounted today. Um, did you? So yeah, I got that right after work today. So I haven't tried them yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Nice.

unknown 1:42

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Are you gonna try that after the show? Hopefully, maybe probably cool. Uh we we we we got a lot we got a lot to talk about tonight. So, uh, real quick to rundown what I've been playing recently, uh World of Warcraft, um Guild 2? Sh shot them, uh Destiny 2, Division 2, uh uh Diablo 2. I'm kidding. I I I um uh let's see, what else have I jumped into? Hey, listen, Diablo 2 is still pretty fucking good. Oh, it is actually so good. I've played Diablo 2 recently. It's still good. It's uh well, especially that new have have you played the Warlock class in Diablo 2 yet? I have not. You are missing out.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I'm not a warlock guy. That's the thing. Fair never really had okay, fair, fair in pretty much any game ever. It's not my bag. I am I am not much for uh unless it's destiny. It's a multi-class thing, um, right, unless it's destiny. Well, that technically unless it's destiny 2. Because if I look at the play times on all my characters in Destiny 1, the Titan is by far in the lead. Um, and actually in Destiny 1, the warlock is number three. Damn. Okay. Um, right? Because I don't like the Hunter, but in Destiny 2, it's pretty much all Warlock all the time. Fair because I just didn't like the changes they made to the Titan and Hunter's dream on my bag. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Um so But didn't want to be locked in Hunter jail?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

In Destiny 2. I throw a lot of tangles, and that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Right, right, exactly. Exactly. But uh we we've we've got a lot to get through this evening, and I know we're running a little later than normal. Um, do you want to do you want to we we have quite a lengthy list? Do you want to just run down the list as we have it?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Uh yeah, let's let's get to one. Actually, let's get number 12 out of the way first because I don't think there's a lot to talk about here anymore with uh Destiny 2. Yeah, I would agree. Um, but but their last technically, well, I and I'm and they're not really calling it their last, but it kind of is their last bug picks patch is next week. Yep. Um, after that, you're probably not gonna see much. They are working on a lot. I will give them credit, but they've already said we're not sure if we can get it all done. So I will credit these devs because they they know they that all or most are about to become unemployed, yeah, and they're still trying to put in the work. So that is much appreciated.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Like seeing seeing some of the tweets that the that the Destiny 2 team like Twitter account has put out talking about like we know X is a problem, we can't promise you a fix, but we're working as hard as we can.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

We can't promise you'll fix it.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Like um like can I cannot tell you like the the the the way that just shot through my fucking heart.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

The latest one from last night just simply said, do not go gently. Yeah. Um, yeah, which is the quote, do not go gently into the night. Yep. That's a paraphrase, that's not the exact quote, but yep, that's what they're that's what they mean. Um, and you know, a lot of people are like, oh my god, I can't believe these numbers haven't moved the bar. I can. Sony has made up their mind currently. I am convinced that what is going to happen is, well, Bungie will be what's left of Bungie will become a marathon studio only. Yeah. Um, for as long as that lasts. Uh the fact that their free weekends we'll talk about that later. Uh oh, yeah, we're we'll talk about marathon. Um, but oh boy. That it is what I think is going to happen is probably a year, maybe two. At the outside, Sony will throw up a splash screen and all it will say is D3. Yeah, but it won't be Bungie who does it, it'll be another company altogether. It will not be bungee. They they don't long, they don't own it anymore anyway. Sony does, yeah. So Sony will hand it off to some other company, but I I do think that the IP is too valuable to let remain dead. Um, somebody at Sony will eventually think enough time has passed. This is a lot of money we're leaving on the table. We need to do something about it. The question is, will the players come? And we won't really know until then. Um, so they they have kept the player base up since the big patch. Um uh right now we're sitting at about 80,000 on Steam, which is lower. It is already starting to drop. Sure. Um, for that first week at two weeks, it was past 100k every single night, no matter what night it was.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

So it already started to drop back down to where it was. Um we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

We'll but I mean see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, but I mean, I mean for me, I'm not logging in and playing every night, and that's just it, because I'm just like, well, it is technically more of the same, it's just more of it now. Um when I get in, I do some sparrow racing, and then I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Yeah, and and there there is another like community initiative, you know, to like log on on a certain I can't remember what I think July 9th, I want to say.

unknown 7:06

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

And you know, and and and and and go do stuff in the game and whatever, and like and then and like that's all well and good, but like that's not that that that kind of thing is more like community morale boosting at this point than anything else. Which don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

That should have been that should have been a few years ago, but the problem was the state of the game sucked. Right. And that's what we that's what we all seem to be forgetting is if for a long time this state of this game was crap. Yep. Well, I mean, I see the thing is you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

I don't think a lot of people have have forgotten that a lot of people have readily acknowledged that the state of the game for a while was bad, but that if if if Bungie or Sony or whoever we're blaming this week, right, would have been given the resources and at least the time or or at the very least the time to be able to create what they've created with this final update, and this is what we got once a year, and then we got small incremental updates throughout the year. I think people would have been fine with that long term.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

This is until the decade of Pete Parsons going on record saying under delivery is the goal. Yep, and they succeeded in that goal so well that they succeeded themselves into non-existence.

unknown 8:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

But anyway, it is what it is. That the next patch comes next week. I mean, I still have it installed. I'll still log in. I'm sure we'll still play some. Yep. You know, just because, like, hey, let's go jump into play Destiny.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Did you log in and get your uh did you pick up your uh your My Formula One stuff? I didn't sure do. Yeah, your F1 Sparrow was fucking great.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah. For this, I think for now we just move mostly on the list, except I'm gonna I want four and twelve probably should be together. Um but yeah, so one of the first things I saw this earlier this week actually was the ultima copyright has returned to Lord British himself, Richard Garrett. Now I say copyright specifically because the trademark has not, which means he can create a new Ultima game. What he cannot do is call it Ultima. Um that's he can, however, call it Lord British's Ultima. Now we're getting rid of that whole thing of Queensreich versus um what's his crap? I'm blanking on his name. Um second, holy um Jeff Tates. Yeah, so you have Queensreich, and then you have Jeff Tates Queens Reich. Yep. Because it's it's all about name who owns a name, how what you can, you know. So anyway, we're getting into that area. We're also by the way, fairly convinced that that's why Star Citizen is not called Wing Commander all because at the time Robert did not own the copyright to Wing Commander that has since lapsed back to him, yeah. But anyway, Richard Garriott now owns Ultima again. He probably will not be letting that go, so it'll be interesting to see what comes of that. A lot of people are excited. Oh, we're gonna get a new Ultima, and we might, we probably will. Yeah, his current track record ain't that great, right? You know, uh when the thing about Richard Garriott is when he was breaking new ground, it was literally new ground. There were no standards there. There's literally the only game in town, yeah. Yeah, so we'll see. Am I marginally excited for marginally?

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Yeah, but or or is it gonna are we gonna get another what the fuck is the Camelot Unchained?

unknown 11:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Are we gonna get another Camelot Unchained or you know, um is that sort of thing? Um moving right along, Unreal 6 will contain AI tools. Claude, Jim, and I uh the 5.8 version already does contain some of these. Now, whether you stand on the AI argument or not, this is just a fact. It's it's going to be there, which means people will be using it. Yeah, um, uh, it's it's a sticky wicket. AI is a very is still to me a very sticky wicket. I think there are a lot of IP intellect, you know, intellectual property issues that need to be worked out that were specifically ignored in all of this. Um, but I don't know that AI is going to go away. I'm pretty sure it won't. It'll be here forever for in some form. Yeah. I don't think it's also going to end up being the end-all be-all because you have a lot of companies discovering that replacing everyone with AI is costing them more money than just to hire the people.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Well, including including a certain yeah, yeah, yeah, it just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

It it it it never ceases to amaze me. You've got Microsoft backing off of jamming copilot into everything. Yep. You've got places that are absolutely refusing data centers.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

A couple of companies that I used to work for in particular um went all in on AI last year and started building up their own AI thing and then discovering.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah. This week, Nvidia, Micron, and other companies who invested in AI, their stocks actually dropped this week by quite a bit because people are tired of waiting for this supposed influence um and influx of money. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Well, it's all so it's all it's all it it it it it's it's all fake money, right? It's it it it it's all it's all what we call notional margin, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Where it's money on paper, but it doesn't actually exist.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

It doesn't actually look, it look and and it but it looks real good on paper.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

It does. Um SpaceX has valued two trillion dollars. People are already questioning that value. Oh yeah. Um yeah. I I think that might be a bit hot on the high side. Don't get me wrong, I am I'm all about the space program. I think we need one, whether that's privatized or not. Yeah, um whether or not SpaceX is worth two trillion, I don't know. However, some of the stuff that they have been able to do is kind of fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

I'm gonna shoot this rocket into space and then I'm gonna land it on the square.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Right? That's nuts.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Impressive. Yeah, that's impressive. Impressive. Um, so yeah. So which um doesn't really segue us other than money, segues us to the next topic Steam machine.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Okay, so Valve Valve avoided talking about the steam machine pricing for literally as long as possible, and now you understand why. Um, because the the reviews came out two days ago now for the Steam Machine. Every tech every major tech reviewer in their mob, Linus Tech Tips, Dave 2D, MKBHD, uh fucking, you know, all uh all everybody got one, right? And so if you can't get one, you know why and they all kind of came to the same conclusion. It's a really cool little box, but it underperforms it's underperforms the promises, it underperforms the promises that was made, kind of performs around the around the base PS5, not even the PS5 Pro. Not even the Pro. And it costs, without a controller and 512 gigs of storage, $1,049. Right. If you want a controller, that'll cost you $1,128. Now, now people are like, oh, that's not a lot of storage. Well, good news, they have a two-terabyte option. It's only $1,350 if you don't want a controller. And that's the thing. I I I I today, today, I watched a video from Linus, I watched a video from uh uh uh uh uh Jay's two cents, and I watched a video from gamers uh uh uh uh uh techie bros um doing that exact thing. Building machines that cost less than the Steam machine that beat the Steam machine to death and they and they still installed Steam OS on it because Valve even said, look, we know this price is ridiculous. Right. Thank you, AI and the Rampocalypse.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

But at this point they have to put it out. They've spent all this RD money, they've got to do it.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

But because and look, to their credit, to their credit, they will not take a loss on this machine. I understand why. Because there's no guarantee that you're going to run Steam OS on this thing. Now, you're more than likely going to if you buy one, because you buy it for that purpose. But you can install whatever operating system you want on it, just like you can on a Steam Deck. So, like, there's incentive there. There's no incentive there for Valve to subsidize the cost. Hey, Salsa, thanks for the likes, appreciate you, good to see you. Um, like it there's no incentive for them to to to do that, and plus they have so much RD in this thing, like you like to your point, like there's there's no there's there's there's they have to make their money back somehow. Well, and unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

And that's what a lot of people don't realize though, is that for a lot of years, these um they're making up for it in game sales and volume. Yeah, but they're actually taking a loss on the gone on the Xbox was was not a moneymaker in and of itself. Um I believe it was the you know, and they so they're taking a bit of a loss to get these out there, hoping that you know the fact that I'm moving, you know, however many copies, four million consoles or whatever, um, that's a number out of my ass. So don't at me.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Um you like to do that, I know. Uh so but in Steam saying no, we're not gonna take a loss, and hell for all I know, we they may still be taking a bit of a hit. Who knows? Um But to be fair, it said for the very beginning it was not gonna come in at 700 bucks, like they originally said. Right. Well, they said that from the very start. And that was before the prices even went up.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

And the thing of it is like I I thought it was gonna land between like 850 and like 950 originally, right? I'm like that that that that seems to be the range where for most people.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I figured 950 was gonna be the opening price.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah, but yeah, and and and so to hit for the bare bones stripped down and so to hit to hit over a thousand dollars without a again, without a controller, which granted, look, you can plug an Xbox controller, but that's not the point, right? Like people who are buying this thing are buying it for a purpose-built reason, right? They want to plug it into their living room and they want to go, right? The other problem is this is even especially at that price, forget 7, 8, 950, it's not performant. Now, to to to to to the credit of every review that I've watched, they've all called out Valve and said, look, if you guys would have just, if you guys would have shut your mouth and not said 4K 60 FPS, even with the FSR caveat, right? Nobody would be calling you out on it. If you would have said, ah, you know, yeah, you know, 1080p medium settings that'll upscale to 4K with FSR, that's a different story, right? But like, no, no one no one's they didn't do that. They tried to make this big bold claim and it fell flat on their face. And I don't know because of that, how many of these they're going to sell.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I don't well, I I don't even know if keeping their eyes shut would have helped in this case because when you start dropping things in the thousands of dollars, that the thousand plus rather starts to make people pause. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, there is a price break where people just go, hold up.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Oh, yeah. Well, but well, and then there was a there was an article I read too um as I was starting to formulate my own article that I'm working on about this whole fucking debacle, right? Where it's like they priced forget the price that it was supposed to be, right? Because that's not the price that it is, right? Well, but we we can sit here all day and meet it where it is, don't try to meet it where you want to meet it. LTT and IGN and and you know and and and MKBHD and and and and and all these people can talk about what the price was supposed to be, and that's great, but that's not what the price is. Right? So at the price that it is, it is priced as a premium product that does not look or perform like a premium product, and that's a problem for a lot of people 400 or whatever on a PS5, jailbreak it, put Linux on that.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Right? And get literally the same box.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Um again, again, I can I can spend I mean fuck this the the the the this handheld console is around the same power as the fucking Steam Machine.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And that's half the cost. What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

There's a game on Steam, released today. Okay. It's called Congratulations on Your Purchase. Oh no, yeah. It's a 10-minute game. Yeah. It's literally you walking through a palace on a red carpet with some paparazzi. At the end there's a wall. You put your name on the wall for the next person who purchases this game to see. The game is $999.99. Yes, it's a thousand fucking dollars. The The little summary says, and I quote, the most expensive game on Steam. A palace, a red carpet, paparazzi, and a wall where you leave your name. Visibly to ever visible to every owner who comes after you. Ten minutes. The price is not a mistake. It's the point. The weird thing is, you know some people are gonna buy this thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Because they can.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

This is a pure E peen flex. Look at how big my balls are.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Oh yeah. My favorite part. My favorite part, by the way, is you can tell they're totally taking the piss. Because if you go to the fucking about this game description on Steam, it is full of BR tags and it is broken as fuck. Like they are totally break breaking the piss.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Not accidentally. You paid for this. Break, break. Not accidentally, not on impulse. You saw the price. You read the description. And then you bought it anyway. Break, break. And by when I say break, break, it's literally two break tags. Welcome.

unknown 23:16

Break break.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

About the experience. Congratulations on your purchase as a first-person luxury experience set inside a palace. There is a red carpet. There are chandeliers. There are velvet rope barriers. Because some spaces must be protected from the wrong kind of people. You are not the wrong kind of people. You have proven that already. What combat, there are no enemies, there are no quests, no skill trees, no loot boxes. Well, there is one box, but it contains only the feeling of having arrived somewhere important. Break, break. You will walk, you will look, you will leave something behind. Break, break. That is all. That is everything. Break, break. Features! A palace interior rendered with the care and attention your investment deserves. A red carpet, which you will walk because you have earned this. Other guests, or at least evidence that others were here before you. Ambient music composed to make you feel that your decisions have been correct. Ending of sorts. Unending of sorts. The persistent, unshakable sense that something meaningful just happened. A note on value. The question of whether this experience is worth $999.99 is, philosophically speaking, unanswerable. Worth is constructed, price is arbitrary. The fact you are reading this suggests you are already considering it. A side note, no, I am fucking not. Which means the answer for you may already be yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

No break break.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

We respect that about you.

unknown 25:15

Break break.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Congratulations again on your purchase. Or your consideration of your purchase. Break break. Either way, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

By the way, company that made this game, you may now pay me for that amazing fucking promo. Thank you for it.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

Fuck yeah. There we go. There we go. I love yeah. By the way, by the way, did you notice the developer name of the game?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I did not, actually, was it? Hang on, hang on. Minimum viable prestige. Published by Worth It Studio. But the weird thing is, some dumbass gonna buy this thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Oh yeah. Somebody did. It has a review.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Cross, cross, don't buy this.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Right, cross, don't buy this.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Self is actually funny.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Hey, dev.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Self says the game was okay, I guess. Would not buy again. Lol.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Uh we're gonna segue right from that. We're gonna go up one to why am I getting aimbot slash cheater bot ads on Facebook? What what okay, what was all that about? I sent you the screenshot. What it literally came up as it was one of the ads that popped up in my feed because you can't get rid of them. That literally says wand gaming. Wand gives you control over your game, health, difficulty, speed, and more, so you can actually enjoy it. Works across 4,000 plus titles. So no reload, super accuracy, disable enemy guns or whatever your games need. It's a cheat bot.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Yes. Um, I was about to say, to be fair, it is not an aimbot. Um, but it is it is basically game shark for your PC. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Super accuracy implies a money.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Oh, yeah, fair, fair. Um, but yeah, um yeah, it is basically Game Shark for your PC. Right. It is a terrible application, and they charge money for it. Well, I'm sure they do, which is why they're paying for Facebook ads. Right. And they make balls. Oh yeah. Oh, well, yeah, we we we've talked about Turtle WoW. We've we've talked about Turtle WoW. Yeah, Turtle WoW was like, oh my god, Blizzard shut us down, you think? Really? I couldn't imagine why. You taunted their fucking developers and the Blizzard fucking account itself. Can't imagine why they would be there, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

You're the people, you're the same people that wonder why THJ making $100,000 a month got shut down.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Well, and then it's it's it's it's not even now now everyone's acting surprised when fucking um uh uh Dalaran shut down and Ascension shutting down. It's like gee, I wonder why. Let's be real. Let's be real. It's because Blizzard is going to announce Classic Plus at BlizzCom. That's what's happening, that's why they're doing this. Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

But at the same time, Blizzard never had the same policy that Daybreak Games had when it came to the game. Yeah, go, yeah, god no, you did it. These these guys were. Blizzard was always like, don't do it. Yeah, but they never really said anything as long as you kind of flew under the radar. Right. Daybreak has always said, as long as you're not making money, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Have fun. But but the thing, but but dev, the reason that Blizzard plays hardball, number one, they have to protect the IP, right? Like, like above, like above it all, right? Excuse me. Yeah. Like they have they have to be.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

In this country, IP laws are rough, and if you don't protect it, that will tantamountly open it up and you will lose it. That's that's also why like Lucasfilm for years has been so rabid. Yeah. Because if if you start allowing people to play in the yard and it it can get out of hand really carefully, care easily. Sorry, use my words. However, Lucasfilm also had a very soft policy about certain things for years. Um, unlike Paramount, and I know who shut down everything Star Trek fan that came along, and I know shut it down hard.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

And I know people love their private servers, but stealing McBoody off their IP deserve uh to go down and taking them down to the region.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Absolutely, absolutely you're stealing, and Daybreak was able to prove in court, for example, that THJ was sucking away a significant percentage of their player base. Right, yeah, exactly. And you can argue that Turtle WoW was doing the same thing, right? And and the weird thing is it's a lot harder to prove where base is still in the millions. Well, right.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

But but the the the mere fact that uh EverQuest Legends hits in a month is proof that Daybreak was losing money.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Well, I think so. Here's the deal, though. I think Legends was in development long before this whole thing came to light. Yeah, I think so. I think so too. Journey was making. I think so too. You know, I because you don't just develop this in six months, right? Right, even if you have the code base to work on, this is a significant divergence from the code base. So the only way that would have happened is if they would have gotten the DHJ code base, which it's an emulator code base, a lot of it is available, not all of it. Right, there's some stuff that they kept in-house proprietary, which I also think hurt them. Um, but either either way, I think it was in I think this was in development for a while before this. Um, I do not know.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Uh I I think so, but don't quote me on that. From what I've gathered, yes. But they usually don't announce those until like closer to BlizzCon. But I also agree because I can't afford to go and I and I really want to, you know, experience BlizzCon this year.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Okay. What are your what are your thoughts on the Tencent thing? You put this in here.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Okay, yeah. So Bloomberg reports, right, that uh Tencent isn't talks to offload several game studio investments in Japan.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

They're like, man, we gotta get rid of some of these.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Uh basically they're evaluating its minority holdings in many studios, finger quotes, right? Um they're propelling to preparing, excuse me, to sell stakes back to the original management team, even if they take a loss. Right? Nice. Um, the only ones that are reportedly safe are investments in platinum games and from software. Those are the only two that they're not those are their main ones. They're the right big ones. But so he so here's the I I I I I I I put this in the in in the spreadsheet, but it's like Tencent kind of seemed to have thought that investing in gaming was just going to be a smash in the smash gri money cash grab, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

That oh, we just do this, we just do this, we're gonna make a shit ton of money, and then we can just get out, right? And they are realizing that this business is not that game dev hard, yo. Yeah, game dev game dev hard, okay. And and they can't just do that thing. So here's hoping that that doesn't negatively affect more studios moving forward because we've seen this, because I I I kind of figured that like Tencent doing all this major investing in the first place was going to be a problem in a few years. Well it was never sustainable. It was yeah, it was it was ne the the amount of money they were throwing around was never sustainable. And I'm like, it it just it's you could throw some of mine.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I'm sure I could crank out something at least as good as 80s Vice Thief.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Uh you crank out something better than that, you have common sense.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I know, I was just on that. Oh all right, we have two topics left. Well, technically we have six, we have five, but there's really only two.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Right, all right. So, so uh the marathon world. Right. So marathon finally announced their experimental, and I'm that's I'm using their word, experimental PvE mode. It's called Vaultbreaker, and it confuses the fuck out of me. Because it's a robot. Right, this is what they've said, right? It says um uh the mid-season update will start on July 21st and will include introducing Vaultbreaker, marathon's experimental PvE mode, Vaultbreaker. Explore Cryo Archive as a crew, duo, or solo player, taking on a progressively challenging series of vaults. Grow stronger across multiple matches with progression that's unique to Vaultbreaker, and push towards the final vault and the mysterious entity within. Vaultbreaker requires a special sponsor kit to crew up, like the PvE mode they did during the free week. I understand that, right? But here's the weird part, right? Any gear or items you stay that you use during that that that that that that that that that match will stay behind when you exfil. The exception to this is the exception to this is vault data. This is apparently a new currency that's found within these vaults, and when extracted, it can be exchanged for upgrades to your sponsored kits as well as gear that can be used in the extraction modes. Yeah, whatever. Um, this lets you experience cryo archive without flooding the economy with low-risk, high power cryo loot. Okay on Fortnite PvE. I was going to say, so this is this this this is fucking this is a roguelite. You've taken you've taken a roguelite and made it marathon, which sounds cool. But the problem, well, but here but here's the thing. It sounds cool.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

That's just it. It doesn't sound cool at all. I don't none of that sounds cool. What how does that none of that sounds cool to me?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

But but but the point of a looter shooter is loot. Well, right, but that that that's what I was about to say. It sounds cool. Let me finish. It sounds cool if it wasn't bundled in the same fucking game where I'm playing a looter shooter.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

That wouldn't even be that I mean, that's just every roguelike ever. Um the whole marathon is I get what they're trying to do. They're hoping that this will beat people into trying the real game. Because let's be fair, this is not the real game. Um it won't work. It won't work. Uh by the way, currently. Take a shot in the dark at how many people are playing marathon right now on Steam. 7,000. You're you're slightly low. 8,000. Oh, meanwhile, there's still 79,000 right now. Yep, there are almost as many people playing a dead game as this game as marathon had at their uh peak. Oh, you're just gonna save Bungie. Yeah, you're so baffling. That's not interesting to me. So here's your one map, which is technically, I guess, seven maps.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

But it that's it. That's all you're gonna get. You know, this is not a PVE mode. This is a hack to desperately try to bring some of the people you just told we're gonna kill the game you've been playing for 10 years. Yep. Over to the over to the property. Um, I was listening to a video the day that was like, and they were like, man, I really hate that some of those people back in the day, we were not one of them, by the way, uh, that were that are now that said marathon will kill destiny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

And it did, probably just not quite in the way that just not in the way that anyone had envisioned.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Um, so right. I just uh yeah, well, part of that is probably because the connection between myself and the bird right now is a little tentative. He just got his internet some powers back right before we started. He's cutting out quite a bit on my end, too, tonight. So um sorry.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Um yeah, and then the other it just it it it it from what I was reading, this was not something that had been in development for, and and I quote, a while. This is a very recent development that they threw together.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

This is a please put some PvE in here really fast so that we can try to fulfill this promise of we're gonna put in something that's not pure PvP. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Well, and like I said, what I have played of Marathon, when I played it with the right people, it was alright. It wasn't bad after the lafter the the changes they made.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

You can make that statement about almost every shooter game out there.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Well, right, that's the thing, isn't it? But but that that was the point I was about to make. I I shouldn't be like, yeah, it was alright.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

I enjoy I enjoy Call of Duty when I'm playing it with a group of people I know.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Right. But I shouldn't have to sit here and qualify it with, yeah, it was fine, it was good when I played it with my friends who I play games with.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I enjoyed Fortnite when I played it with people I know.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Right. Like the the whole point, the whole point should be I want to play the game to play the game. Hell, I played Arc Raiders.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

I would for many years I just played by myself. I played Arc Raiders a lot solo.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

I jumped into Arc Raiders solo so much I I I enjoyed that more than fucking grouping up half the time.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Well, yeah, because it it but it totally changes that game. Oh, yeah. Still, to this day changes the way you approach the game when you're playing. To this day. And to be fair, right? To be fair, uh, I played for it with my so many. That's why I don't play with my eight-year-old grand. Um, in order to do it, I'll have to set up another Microsoft account because he uses mine. Um yeah, kid, well, A, kids are savage in the first place. They're even savage when they don't mean to be savage. But no, he meant to be savage. That was that was just savage. And I usually go, hey, don't quote the deep match to me. I was there when it was written. Um you can level the playing field by go get a pong machine, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Well, the the uh the uh earlier earlier in today I was making some some voice at Seamus, and we were just doofing around. He goes, Grow up, dad. And I was like, dude, you're five. Sit down. Right, have a seat there, old man. You know, I was like, sit down, and he he he was like, Oh, and sat down.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Right, you know, son, there is a line, you found it. Right. I was about to say, there's that line. You found it. He's said a few things, he just he doesn't really think about what he's saying, right? He knows immediately that that was a bad choice. Yep, and it usually has to do with with being disrespectful too.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Folks are even telling an adult to get good, don't misunderstand me. I am I am well aware of shit talk. Yeah, um, I actually, unfortunately, one of my children picked up one of my bad habits. I have a habit back, especially back in the day when I was playing a lot of Destiny 1 Crucible with with friends to uh hit somebody in the face with a rocket, and uh it was eat it, bitch, every single time. And I'm sitting there one day and they're playing Destiny or something, and I hear this tiny little crookie voice go, bitch, and I was like, mmm, yeah, we should re-evaluate things that we say while we're gaming, dad.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

He also called me bra once, and my sister said that is your aunt, not a bra. He says mom bruh is gender neutral.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

God damn it, that's partially my fault. Yeah, my my the little one here that calls everybody bra, and it's partially my fault because I do too. I grew up in North Carolina with a bunch of surfers, and so everybody's bro, bra, bruh, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Um, Seamus, Shamus, Seamus comes home and and and um uh well she does, you know where we live, right? Um and so you can you can imagine the population that lives around where we live. And um he comes home the other day one day from school and he starts going, bruh, bruh, bruh, this, that. And I look at him and I said, Seamus, there is no one in this house. It is your brother, bro, you know, bruh, what you know, in insert whatever you want to call us here. I am your I'm your dad, that is your mother. And he's like, he's like, but bruh.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Right. Well, that's that's not um that's not a familiar, that goes back to respect for adults, right? Yep. And when when the little one does it, he's like, bruh. And I just kind of look at him, he's like, pop haw. Good.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yep, same. Seamus, Seamus does it now. Seamus goes, Seamus goes, bruh, come on, and I'm like, and he goes, Right, dad. I'm like, yeah, yeah, there you go. Now that one right there. Better choice. All right, so the big topic of the day that came out today is that Grand Theft Auto 5 finally, or Grand Theft Auto 6, excuse me, finally has pricing. Um I mean, you know, close enough, whatever. Right, which which look, let's look, look, I don't know. Well, wait, it it it's it's at a release date. Um, but like GTA, GTA six has a price point of eighty dollars for the base game and a hundred dollars for the ultimate edition, and none of this surprises me.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Yet the edition price doesn't surprise me at all because that's kind of common these days. Well, right. The hundred dollars super super deluxe twisty dragon ball edition is is Has hit that hundred bucks hundred bucks. But the raising the price of the base game for eighty dollars is just pure we know you fuckers have been waiting for this for years and you know we're you we're gonna make you pay through the fucking nose for it. Right. It's well then literally a fuck you to every fan of this game, and I will die on that hill.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

Here, here, here, here's the other thing, right? Like the the thing that bugs me the most is that all of these speculation presented as fact articles and videos for clicks that have surrounded these the the price point of this game for months are all screaming because they swore that you know Joe Schmoe from insert product placement thing over here told sources say told me that it was gonna be a hundred dollar base price, and you were all gonna be enraged. It's like no, but hey, you know, let's just all continue to present speculation as fact. For me, it doesn't mean shit. Now, I mean sure. But the the other the the the the the the other thing that I think people got a little bent out of shape about today is that um they announced what comes with the ultimate edition. Now, don't get me wrong. Look, look, um I think that the ultimate edition pricing is fair for an ultimate edition of a game, right? It is what it is, right? We've been paying $100 plus for ult, we've been paying $130 for ultimate editions of games for a number of years now. So $100, I was kind of shocked that it was that low, to be honest with you. Um but they announced what comes with it. It's a pretty lengthy list.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Well, they're say they're saving money by not shipping any actual discs.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Well, that's all that's the other that's the other part there, too. But the the the the the the interesting thing was is that they they they I'm going to use the term locked, but they locked some cosmetic things to the ultimate edition, right? Okay, that's which I don't quite understand why people are in arms about this. That's because the reason they're in arms about this is because some publications have run with the narrative that these businesses that have this content are locked behind the ultimate edition and people are losing their minds.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

And I'm like, that's a you problem because content, content, cosmetic content has been locked behind ultimate editions and deluxe editions and everything else since those were a thing. That's why they exist, by the way. Because they're like, look, you buy this, you get this pretty coat, but you buy this, you get the pretty coat, the pretty hat, and the pretty shoes to go with it.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Like it says, it says, it says, no, sir, no, sir, no, sir.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

I did read something, I don't know the truth of this. So, but it's some there was actually apparently some story content that was locked behind the ultimate edition. I have more of an issue with that because that's just like saying, okay, so you have D1 DLC. Are you gonna sell that separate? But I don't know the truth of that. It was just in a couple articles that I was reading.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yeah, um, so basically people were up in armies because Rockstar has confirmed that several stores and activities in Grand Theft Auto 6 are exclusive to the Ultimate Edition. This includes access to certain.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

You cut off completely there.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

This includes access to certain tattoo shops and mod shops and custom of vehicle operations and businesses. Right, it's the shit they listed in the Ultimate Edition. Right. What the f oh my god It's just the shit they listed there!

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

But anyway, okay I'm in my evil overlord thing now. I even have a cat.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yes, but you have a pinky ring.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

I can't have a cat, I'm allergic, so is Trish. Uh I have a I have dogs though, so it's fine. Hey, buddy!

SPEAKER_00 48:15

This is Finn again. This is Finn. Say hi, Finn. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

So the one wrench that's been thrown in all of this is that GTA will the physical edition will not have a disc in the box. It will only be a download code. Right. Which the that's my big what the fuck. And and I my only concern, like look, look, I get it. It they're gonna say manufacturing costs, and you're gonna buy it anyway, because it's charging me 80 bucks. Right. Well, you know, but that but that they're gonna say all these things, right? And like my only concern is what does that do for the resale market of the game?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Oh, hang on. That's a diff that's a slightly different comic because here's the thing they've been trying to kill the resale market since the resale market existed, and this is how they finally get it done. It's mostly been done already because fewer and fewer games have been coming out with no discs. It's just a download code. They're not the first game to do this. We're not saying it's right. Right. I'm not saying it's right, but this is the they've been trying to kill, and they being the gaming industry at large, yeah, have been trying to kill the resale market for over a decade. Oh, long. This is how they finally do that.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yeah, yeah. Um, but now the the the other thing is that people are losing their minds over GTA 6 not having an online component at launch. But apparently these people weren't either probably, let's be real, some of them probably weren't even born when GTA 5 launched.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Because do not because I was there, and I remember for them to put out a GTA 6 online, they're either gonna have to double up or GTA 5 online has to die.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Right. Which which they still make millions of dollars a month in GTA online, so why would they kill it?

SPEAKER_00 50:12

I would be more upset if I was interested in this game, which I am not, and that's not because it's probably it'll probably be a great game. I don't know. I've played GTAs in the past, that's why I'm not interested in this one. It's not my bag. Fair. Um, but there's a whole shit ton of people out there that are looking forward to it, and I hope it's great for you. I really do. Um, but if I was going to buy this game, I would be more concerned that it's not coming to PC on release. I get it, none of the others came to PC first either. But we don't live in those times anymore. Right. So the PC people, you you're looking at a year to two, maybe as much as two years before you ever see this game. The idea is they want people to buy it twice. Well, right.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah, no. Well, and and and and let's be real, I bought GGA, I bought GGA five three times.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Um fluent as money.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

Well, but but but but but but you have to also remember the.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

I can't say anything. I bought Minecraft like six times.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Okay, like I bought I bought it on the 360 when it came out. I bought it on I b I bought the up I I said I bought two and a half times. I bought the upgrade for the Xbox One. The upgrade for the one and then I bought it on PC.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

I'm online for for box and PC, haven't played it in years. Uh yeah. But yeah, I mean I I bought RDR2 on two different places.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Right. And the thing of it is like they will announce whatever the next iteration of GTA Online is when they are good and ready to. But the thing of it is the GTA, up until five, has always been a single player game, right? Like, yeah, four has been a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

The actual game itself is a single player game. I've always looked at GTA online as a completely separate thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it has its own stuff. So, you know, um, you're right, Dev. The prices suck, but part of this is for years and years and years, and this is the this is the shit part. For years and years and years, the game prices did not keep up with the rest of the inflation. Right. Which is fine, because I personally think that we're hitting a we're gonna hit a break point, and the industry's gonna discover that raising the prices has not done what it they're supposed to do. Because games are also a pure luxury market. On the other hand, when things get rough, luxuries actually are not necessarily the first thing to go because you still need that escape. You can say it's criminal. I agree. Maybe not for the exact same reasons. I think it's exploitive. Yeah. Because if you want your escape, well, now you gotta pay me a premium for grand. I get it, companies have to make money, but you know what? Don't dump $500 million into a game. You know, uh, I'm not quite sure what the budget for this game is, I'm pretty sure it's high. Uh, but this brings us back to the fact that the prices are high because budgets are out of hand, right? Just you don't need to be spending $400 million to build a fucking game, and we've seen that recently. Look at Crimson Desert, look at you know, these games that are coming out that are that are selling millions of copies, but they didn't spend hundreds of millions to make them, right? And they're still some of the best. I think Crimson Desert is a solid candidate for game of the year. Yeah. Um right now, it might be my game of the year, to be honest. Personally, my personal game of the year. Um, so part of that is budgets. Budgets are out of hand. It's also why the gaming industry now has I'm gonna crack my team up with a bunch of contractors. I'm gonna release the game and then I'm gonna promptly get rid of them all to cut that expense. That's that's how the game industry has worked now forever. Um, it's always worked that way to a certain extent, uh, but but not to the extent that it does now. Um, there's so much more contracting involved because it's easier, but they end up paying more because we see that even in my industry. It's like, yes, if I'm a contractor, you're paying my contractor, my contractor probably half again, if not twice, what you're actually paying, what I'm actually getting paid. So you could cut the middleman and save expenses, but the difference is I can't walk in tomorrow and tell a permanent employee that they're done. There's usually procedures in place that have to have to happen. Most of your contractors, you just walk pack it up, boys, we're done here. Um, so it gives you that sort of ease of of moving people around. We're about to see that with Bungie. Although Bungie's also gonna be getting rid of longtime actual employees, so not just contractors. Yeah. But yeah, yeah. I think the price is, I think we're gonna hit a price point that you're just gonna see sales fall off a lot. I mean, I mean, the I mean the other the other thing is like I also might note that Crimson Desert did not cost $70 for those six a piece on those 70, those six million copies that it's sold.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Right. I mean, well the other the the other the other thing is like I posted an article yesterday, you know, about how gaming is expensive now, right? And how and and and I listed 11 titles, right? Um, that were really, you know, pretty solid games, right? They had some pretty good reviews, but they kind of flopped commercially because of a number of factors. Terrible release windows, you know, non-existent marketing, corporate politics, whatever it is, right? And like a guy messaged me about this, and he was like, well, that list is that that that list is like they're all you know old games. Well, yeah, that's not the point. Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Like, the point is that like um they were side note, you're right, Dev. You can pay you for your sub, your WoW sub now with in-game gold, but you couldn't for a very long time. That that's a fairly newish thing in the grand scheme of WoW.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

Yeah. Yeah, but it it I mean it it it's like it's like the it's like this list is not meant to be like a oh hey, here's here's you know 11 games that came out, you know, two years ago that are that you should go and and and and and immediately buy. No, it is games that you came out you know, in some cases 20 years ago. But right, they still hold up today. They're still gonna be able to get it. And they're worth checking out, and you can spend five, ten dollars and get a 30, 40 hour adventure. Exactly. Because everyone in their moms is that they want that they want those experiences again.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Right, they're still there, that's just it, but you have to hunt them out. Jumping back for a minute to the uh the resale thing, I'm gonna include the bargain bin here, too. I miss the days of being able to walk into the game shop of games that have been out a while. That those two-year-old, sometimes slightly older games that have been out. They've been sitting on the shelf for a while. So now I can go buy that game that would have cost me $50, $10. And um, I can take my fifty dollars or however much I have to spend, and I can come out of there with two or three or four games. Um always about value for the money. Oh, yeah, which was which is funny because back in the day when my grandfather would occasionally buy me games, he never he was always resistant to buy just like one game for 50 bucks, right? But if I walked over to the bargain bin and got a stack of like six games for that same 50 bucks, he had no issue. Right, yeah, he's like, Oh, yeah, sure, no problem. Go pick, you know. Well, how about he goes, Well, go pick you out, you know, this much worth of games. I miss those days, I missed the resale market because a lot of these games, I just I'm not interested in paying full price. And as the price goes up, I buy fewer and fewer games. I can count this year on one hand the new games I have bought at full price.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Which has never which has never happened before.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

So I'm not a good two. Forza Horizon. I think that's it. And I don't think any of none of those were $70 games. Oh well, but that's not true.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

I think First Light was First Light, First Light was 60 years. First night was six years seventy, Forza shouldn't have unless you got Forza on Game Pass.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Uh I might have. I might have. I might have Forza through Game Pass. So, but still, it's just like just it's you know, it's a handful of games. Whereas in the past, you know, when it was $50 even, I was willing to purchase virtually every new game that I was passingly interested in.

SPEAKER_03 59:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Um But 40 was 50 was the start of the break point for me, for me personally. Um, and I've talked about this before. My metric is am I gonna get that am I gonna get the game price worth of play out of it at three dollars an hour? If my lease gonna break even, then it's probably worth the purchase. Um but that even that at this point, I'm 70 bucks, wait, I'll just wait for it to go on sale. Right. That means I'm behind the times, so be it. Um because oddly enough, it doesn't really change the experience just because you didn't get to do it the first week. It's still a good game. If you've never played The Witcher 3, for example, and you bought it today, still a good game. Um if you bought Diablo 2 today, still a good game.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

You know, you still get that experience because you never right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

But but people I don't I don't I don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

It is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

That they're just not they're not going to get, obviously, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

Well, and FOMO's a thing. Um and and there FOMO is a thing, and companies prey on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

There's even been companies recently that have been sued and lost because they were preying on FOMO. Destiny 2 is fucking designed around it completely. The thing, the time limited stuff, the unlocked, all that. It was absolutely just banking on your FOMO. That's fear of missing out for anybody that did it take me to finally get a skipper because didn't you bother to get it when it first came out? Um I got close. I missed it by like I missed it by like five credits or whatever the whatever the currency was we had to get for it, I missed it by like five before time went out. Uh so it was like, okay, whatever. I didn't get it. No big deal. Yeah. So thankfully for myself, I don't tend to suffer too badly from FOMO. Yeah. Um, I'm also not a completionist, so you know, I don't have to 100% things. Uh I know people that absolutely are, they absolutely have to complete something, and that's fine. If that's your bag, that's your bag. Uh you know, it's like, oh god, I got a Lego game. I must 100% every achievement. Yeah, no, not for me. Um right. But I understand that that's a thing, and that some people that's where they get their enjoyment. They they they feel like they've accomplished something in the game if they 100% all the achievements, to them, that's winning the game, right? Uh but yeah. So yeah, it sucks. It'll come out, it'll come out a year or two for uh for the PC. I do think at this point they need to release it all at the same time. Um on the other hand, on the other hand, PC folks, by the time it gets to you, it should be well patched. Uh, so all a lot of the bullshit will be have taken care of. You won't have to deal with it. The the folks that are gonna grab this thing on launch day and gonna have to deal with all the bugs. Um yeah, and you get you're right. Drag it gives people time to create the guides that are accurate and not based on early information that is no longer correct. Uh on the other hand, they're also gonna there's some of those guides by that point will be old and outdated, and that's a that's a problem of itself. I've been running into that a lot lately with some of these simracing apps where all of the guides are not for the current version and the buttons are all different, and you're like, okay, I gotta find where that is in order to click that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

So, and you run into that in games too. Once games, you know, like if you watch well, if you watched a Destiny 2 guide from the Red War now, it would make zero sense. Right, I you know, um, because you can't play the Red War anymore, they vaulted it. They sure did, yeah, but it is what it is. Oh, I mean, I'm sure it'll do well. It's Grand Theft Auto. It's like saying it's not gonna do well, yes. Um, or the next Madden or whatever, it just is what it is, right? Then they vault it, they deleted it. It's like, wait, what? Good job. That came back to haunt, too. It did, it sure did. Um, it came back to bite him in the ass.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:48

It sure did, and it's honestly probably part of the reason why they're you know in the situation there.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Well, so vaulting content vaulting is absolutely part of the reason we got to where we did. Yeah, that hurt the it hurt the community.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

It hurt the community, it hurt morale around the game, it hurt everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

Bungie is real good about shitting the morale around their game. It's excited for what turns out to be nothing. They're also really good at then turning around and shitting the morale of the game right down right down the tube. Right. Um so there's a lot of things. Bungie, I think, it soon will make a very interesting case study for people in in how to run your company, or in many cases, not run your company. Um, it will make an interesting case study for sure. Uh the post mortem on this will be really interesting, but we'll never know the true story, we'll never know the whole story because we weren't there, we didn't work for the company, and even the people that worked for the company are not.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Well, right. I was gonna I was gonna say in in that particular case, it it's the case of you know, there's the there's you know their story, you know, the company's story, and the truth probably somewhere in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

Well, right, there's three sides to every story, right? Yours, mine, and the truth. Right, exactly. That's usually somewhere in between. Um and that's not saying that people are lying, don't misunderstand me. Yeah, no, no. But it has been proven time and time again in court that that eyewitness testimony is unreliable. Yep, sure has. If you have ten people, ten people watch an event, and then go ask them what happened, you will get ten different stories about what just happened. You sure will. Ten people go watch a movie, ask them, ask them what they what they noticed. They will be ten different things. They read a book, ask them what they remembered. It'll be different things. And that's not to say that they're doing anything wrong, that's just how we work. We all are different, we all get caught, our eyes get caught by different things.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

So, point is nobody's nobody's lying outright in this case. Um, well, we'll assume that nobody's lying. Sure. For for the sake of argument. So, but they're all telling only the piece of the story that they know. Nobody has the whole thing. I don't think anybody has the whole story. Um, because this is not just this didn't just happen last week, right? This is this was developed, this this whole thing developed from the very beginning. I also not not to get too deep in this rabbit hole, but there was a thing that came out this week, last week, since the last time we did the show. There was actually a marathon clause, a creation of marathon. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The original destiny contract. Not the destiny 2, the original destiny contract was that if destiny reached certain milestones, Bungie would be allowed to develop Marathon. Yeah. So Marathon didn't just pop out of thin air. Yeah, no. A, they developed the you know, the the original one as well. So I just I found that to be interesting, not because it's terribly significant, just shows that how long Marathon has been on the table, you know, um, which from the very beginning. It was always on the table, which I just I found that to be fascinating. Oh, absolutely. For whatever reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

Same, same.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

As I suddenly channel Mr.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

Spock, fascinating, illogical, but fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

Exactly. So, yeah, it it's it is what it is, it's a thing. Yeah, Grand Theft Auto will be what it will be. Hopefully, it's good. Hopefully, it doesn't just come out and fall flat on its face. And people are like, Oh, there's no way that could happen. Never say never.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:59

Never say never. Never say never.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

There, there's been way too many surefire games that were.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Cyberpunk was supposed to be the be all end all of RPGs. Look what happened at launch.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

Right. At launch, you know, you can make an argument now. Um, it's not, it's those apples and oranges, actually. Well, they're both first-person shooters. Does that count? Uh but you're talking about Quake era, Quake or Doom?

unknown 1:09:28

Quake.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

We'll call it Quake. Quake era versus now. But so they're both first-person shooters. The original one is not a marathon, not an extraction shooter. It is what we would call these days a boober shooter. Um, I find that term quaint. People get offended. I'm like, I don't get offended, and it gives you a very, it tells you exactly what to expect with that game. Uh but so I'm not sure, I haven't dug enough into the lore to know if the lore follows the original at all. Um, I'm gonna presume perhaps incorrectly that the answer to that question is yes, at least a little bit. Inspired by, if you will, like most movies that are made from books these days, inspired by. And by inspired by, which means we took the name, a few characters, and a couple of things from the book that said that that are called the same thing, and we're calling it Inspired By. Um, so yeah. So who knows? But it's been there for a lot for the point, the whole point of that is it's been there since the very beginning. Yeah, um, so this is not a new project for Bungie. Although apparently they did scrap everything and redo it like with in in like a stupidly short time frame, which which happens a lot in gaming. Same thing happened to Anthem, they scrapped like almost all of Anthem and had to redesign it within like 18 months of release. Yeah. Um, and I think I read something. So, which goes back to give these time, give these companies time to cook. Right. We've seen with Bungie that if you give Bungie time to cook, Bungie can cook. But you've got to give them the time and the freedom. And as soon as you start trying to shackle them, it all falls apart. Right. Look at you, Lightfall. Oh, yeah. Lightfall was good in concept, the execution kind of sucked. Yep, absolutely. 100% there were moments in Lightfall that that are good. Um I wasn't quite as annoyed by the one character that everyone seemed to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

I just um I just went through an I just went through and replayed Lightfall, but Titan. And yeah, it it it it it had moments of wow, this is really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

It has it has moments, oh this just got good. Um, you know, like I said, I wasn't annoyed by by Mr. Man as much as everybody else seemed to be. Yeah, I wasn't so going for they did miss, don't get me wrong, it's a miss. That character Oval is a miss, but I would honestly I prefer him to Shaw Hunt. Um as to cross, as they say. Yes, the character looks almost exactly like Cross, which is hilarious. Um and that's just because the character, the the Shaw Han character himself is a cheat. He's a liar and a cheat.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:29

He didn't get he bought all of that gear that he's wearing. If you look at the lore, sorry, we're gonna diverge a bit. If you look in the lore exotics and things that he bought them from a black market, he didn't actually do those that stuff. On the one hand, I was like, okay, that's an interesting piece of lore, but it doesn't make me like the character. So you know exactly. And he also left his fire team to die, he abandoned them. So, you know, he's not a not a good guy, not not exactly heroic. He's no Saint 14. Right. You know, that sort of thing. So whatever. It is what it is. But so I found him less I found him more annoying than the dude from Lightfall. I say, dude, they're actually neutral. So right, fair. Yeah. Um but yeah. You know, do uh but at the end of the day, I think as an I I do think the recap, I do think we'll eventually see a D3. It will not, however, be a bungee product.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Yeah, no, I don't I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

I don't think it's I don't know that there's any way in hell that it's gonna be a bungee product.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:40

Yeah, I don't think so either. I don't as much as much as it pains me to admit that. I don't I don't think so. I think I think bungee is we know what is done at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

Um I think that they I think that we got we got ended over on the clock, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:54

Yeah, I I don't know why it killed it. My my my upload may have just gone to shit. I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Yeah, probably. Yeah. But anyway, that's the that's pretty much most of the topics tonight. I mean, I don't we can keep talking, I don't care. Um, there's plenty of stuff to talk about. I have been, like I said, I have been doing some more objectively bad racing, or in my case, demonstrably bad racing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:17

Um I will I will get back into it once my leg cooperates.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

Oh. One more thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

Yes, chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

Steam summer sale starts tomorrow. Dun dun dump. Just there you go. Fill your backlog, chat.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

Fill your backlog. Speaking of game prices. Speaking of game prices, the summer sale. I I don't know who they would hand it off to. I don't, but they'll put it out for bid. It's pretty easy, it's pretty, pretty standard, right? Who who wants to develop this? Or some company will come to them for a pitch. But Bungie no longer owns any of that. It all belongs to Sony, so they can do what the hell they want with it. And I don't think that well, because Bungie technically at this point, no, really doesn't is functionally not even non-existent. You know, marathon's the only property they have, so the only teams are working on Marathon. They're cutting everyone else, so it's not like Bungie could do it even if they wanted to, right? Um, which they do, by the way. I'm sure they do want to, but there's nobody there that's gonna be able to do it. So the only way you get it is to hand it off. Who would I hand it off to? I don't know. Um, you know, but I think they're gonna pass it off to someone else. Just like just like some of the best Fallout, it's not done by Bethesda. Yeah. Look at you, Obsidian.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

Um, you know, I mean, well, could you know you know what though Fallout Fallout?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:50

You know what? Speaking of speaking of Obsidian, give me a destiny made by Obsidian. Sure. Please? Absolutely. Toss in some of that obsidian humor, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

Please. You know, or just, you know, uh I I hell at this point, I wish they'd do an actual full-on port of Destiny World.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:14

Listen, man, to this day to this day, my favorite line from the Outer Worlds 2 is an is is an announcement that pops up as you enter uh uh uh one of the areas, and and and the announcer yells, uh it's an advertisement, and the announcer goes, Whether it's an orifice or a face, Anti's Choice has a cream for it. It kills me every time I hear it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:42

Well, the thing is that tone, I don't know the matches destiny, but just from a development standpoint, I think they do fine. Um give it to the guys that do Crimson Desert, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:53

Um that, yeah, but that so the problem is is that what we we've seen what they've done with Black Desert.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

I'm not worried about yes, that's true. But you know, you can you can put things in the contract, right? Uh Black Desert Online is not terrible, it's just overly monetized. Um you know, there's a ton of companies that can do it, and then maybe I would say I would say they more likely to end up giving it to somebody unknown. Um because it's cheaper for one thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:31

Well, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

Here's your shot at the big time.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Right, here's your shot, don't fuck it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:37

Uh don't fuck this up. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:39

Here's your shot, don't fuck it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

You know, it it contrary to popular belief, Bungee's not the other person that could develop this game. Um we saw that with Halo, right? Yeah. Some of the later Halo is out Halo the fonts. So it could be done with Destiny. You know, and well, we kind of seen it with Destiny. Destiny Rising is pretty solid in the story department. Right. Yeah. Like the mobile game brings it down a bit because it has all of the those trappings, not the game itself. The game is fine. Um, I would like again, I would love to see an actual PC port as opposed to just playing it through the player the emulator. Right. Um so we know that other people can develop Destiny and make it decent and make it interesting. So um you could even go that route too. Um, I would like, honestly, while us were talking about that. What would we want from a Destiny 3? I think it would be terribly interesting to uh go back to the pre-Guardian. Go back to the Iron Lords and the Warlords and take it up through the Battle of uh Twilight Cap and uh was it Battle of Five Fronts, Seven Fronts, whatever it was. Yeah. Um go up through there in the early days of Guardians when it's you know, when the the actual big active Guardians were Zavala and Saint and Osiris and Tolan and all those guys. Um and then bring it forward. But at the same time, that's that you you kind of have a hard cutoff there, unless you're gonna take it in a different direction or start repeating what has happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:38

Yeah, I mean my thing my thing is.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

Taking it forward is the easiest track.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:42

Yeah, for for D3, if if they were to make one, like it I I've always said that the what one we we need to get out of soul, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

However, they do it's a big galaxy, much less a universe.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:55

So however, however, they do that, they need to get out of soul, and then we need to figure out a way to have that that that showdown with the you know I mean I mean really at this point I I I want to see the fucking winner stuff because that don't at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't try to continue any of that. I don't think that's I think that's a lose-lose proposition. Oh, but that's because you've got all these people, yourself included, who have built this up in your mind for 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

Myself included. Fair, yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

You know, so that's a lose-lose proposition. That that was the whole thing with the final shape. They stuck the landing, but they stuck the landing to me alone on a little shape, a little shaky. Um, and part of that is just because after you've played this game for so long and got so deep in the lore, you kind of have your own expectations about how you think it's going to go, and then it doesn't because you're not writing the story, you're participating in the story. You're you're basically reading the book, right? Or watching the movie. You don't have any actual control over what happens. I I don't know that I would go with the winner, I would leave that out there because again, you've already got this point of the power creep is so bad that that's we've and again, I get it. So apparently the winner is is so is the winner darkness itself? That's or did we actually beat darkness? Because but so my point is where the hell do you go? The power creep is always bad, already bad. You already have you're gonna have to you're gonna have to find some way, basically, lore-wise, to depower the guardians a little bit. Right. Because at this point, it's like you said, it's like you know, somebody, some big bad comes along, and you're like, hey man, we literally just defeated darkness. Right. Who the fuck do you think you are?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:55

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:56

Which is why characters, which is why characters like Spider annoy the shit out of me so much. We're supposed to be intimidated, bro. Now we're back to that. Bro, what's to stop me from pulling the entire place down around your ears? Do you really think that all of your people could stop me? Do you think this? I mean, you know, at this point we eat gods for breakfast. You know, that's true. It's it's like the fan speech. All I have to do is tell the guardian you've got a gun or the heiress can turn you into one. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:36

Did you see speaking, speaking, speaking of uh destiny things, did you see the pitch idea that one of the uh uh the narrative dudes had about Amanda?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:49

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

I did see the Destiny dating game thing, and and how they wanted to um how they wanted to have her uh come be come back, be resurrected by a hive ghost and be a an antagonist for a while. Be a lucent guardian for a while, and be and be and be an antagonist for a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

The problem with that, but a problem with that is I it immediately brings to mind Crow. Yes, it's kind of the other way around, but it's really the same story. Eh, fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:24

Um, plus, here's the thing. We are already functionally immortal. We're actually zombies, if we stop to think about it. We've we're risen dead. The traveler is in fact a necromancer. Um or a warlock, which brings us back to that topic. That's a nice little callback. You like that? Um but if nobody dies, there are no stakes. Watch the point. If all the all the characters we like are plot armored, they're gonna constantly come back for some reason. There's nothing to buy, there's no, there's nothing they'd want. I I did not want the character of Amanda to die. Right. Yeah. But you know, I didn't want Cade to die. Difficult to permanently kill the guardian. Uh even Cade came back and then left of his own volition.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

You know, um, he chose to leave again. So, but if nobody dies, there are no stakes. Right. Plus, again, to me, that's literally just flip the coin over and go the other way, and it's the same story we just did with Crow.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

Um just some people, uh some characters actually need to stay dead. Uh I'm looking at you, Game of Thrones. Uh speaking of, I did watch the first episode of the new House of the Dragon. And we'll see. It was, I mean, it's it's mostly fighting. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:03

Yeah, I'm I I'm I'm definitely the same motive. We will see.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:07

It's mostly fighting. So now I am curious as to whether or not. Oh, wait, no, spoilers. I am curious as to whether or not the one character is actually dead. Um fair. Hopefully, hopefully you know which one I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:25

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

Um, but again, people it's Game of Thrones, so they they are kind of known for that. Uh right. But if you've read the books, you also realize just how big of a bait and switch most of that turns out to be. Yeah um the only person in the I swear to god, in the books, the only person that hasn't come back yet is Ned.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:50

Um, that's because he got his head chopped off.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:54

Yeah, well, Caitlin got her throat cut and her head might as well have been chopped off. Yeah, yeah. In the book, she's back.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:02

Spoiler alert, by the way, if you've not read the books. All right, she she most definitely, she most definitely is.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:10

Really put that storyline in the books, though. In the show. I understand. I it didn't really, it just it was unneeded. They they had that elsewhere, yeah. Most of that storyline was elsewhere. Yeah. So, but anyway, we digress. Yeah. Um, yeah, we'll see what happens with with GTA and and everything else. And game prices in general, because this is gonna test the waters for a lot of companies.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:35

Well, but but Nintendo's been doing the same thing for over a year, and they're kind of still wishy-washy on it. So, yeah, you know, we'll we'll see we'll see. We'll see, we'll see what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:45

But I don't I here's here's the weird thing. I don't actually give a shit about Nintendo because I don't buy a lot of Nintendo games. Right, I do buy a lot of PC games. It has more direct direct consequences for me when a PC game comes in at $80.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:59

Fair. 100% fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:01

And at least with a console game, I still get a disc or a cartridge or something. Well, other than just the box. Not anymore. Well, right, all those download codes because it kills the secondary market.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:14

Yep. It should be.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

You know, they could have fixed this whole thing with the secondary market years ago if the companies that were doing the secondary market just would have tossed them a bone of a couple of percentages.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:29

Yep. I said the same damn thing, and I and I got and I got vilified for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

It would have fixed, I'm sure I will too. But you toss them a tiny little bone, and everybody's happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:41

Right. You lit you literally give them two percent. Right. Two percent, and it doesn't sound like a lot, but guess what? Over time that shit adds up. Oh, and you know what, you can't, and and and and and you could do two percent of every sale, but it's only paid on a but it's but it's only paid on a net thirty. Or hell. Hell. A net 60.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

Like, come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:04

But you know, if you pay it out, or you know, whatever. Give them 2% of every sale, even no matter how many times you sell that copy of the game, because that's the whole thing about the resale market. You're hoping that people buy it from you and then bring it back and sell it back to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:19

So that you can sell it again.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:22

Um, I have sold games in the past, not a lot, to be honest. Um unless I just didn't like it. Right. I usually keep the games that I buy because if I like the game, I'm probably going to return to it at some point, especially on the console. Umdly enough, that happens less now that everything's a download. Uh, which is kind of weird. I I freely admit is kind of weird. But that's how it works for me. I don't know. My brain is weird. Um, you know. So yeah. Which oddly reminds me as I look at it, speaking of weird, I need to play some far, far west and see how much they've changed.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:05

Oh, I need to buy that. That's right. I keep forgetting about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:10

Steam sales starts tomorrow. That's what I was gonna say. Check your wish list, folks. Although to be fairless. Two-thirds of my wish list all just says coming soon. Right, yes, basically use it. I just use it as a placeholder to go look for dates on the games I'm actually interested in.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

Oh man, speaking speaking of speaking of deals, Bellright is actually 19 bucks right now. That's a solid deal for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:32

Yeah. Yeah, my brother, um part of the reason he picked up Windrose is because he he plays like I've done everything I can do in Bellright. Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:41

Fair. Because you could what what was the other one you and I were? It was Bellright and Medieval Dynasty were the two we were looking at, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:50

Because we we haven't we we haven't picked up either one, and I can't remember what I can't either.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

Well, Bellwright, I think we were waiting for a sale. Yeah. But there was something else, some other reason that popped up that I was like, eh, maybe that's not so much for me. I don't remember what though. I can't remember now. Yeah. I also need to jump back into Pow World.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:13

We need we need we have a bunch of other stuff. Like Dawn of Defiance. Uh like in in in in in in terms of things we need to check out again. Like, and and and and and and and and since we're saying it publicly, you know, it's chat, hold us to it. Um In Shrouded, PAL World, and uh Dawn of Defiance are the three like survival games we we we we need to check out again. I don't want to touch uh uh I don't really care about touching Dune until the fall. Not until the not until the the big changes hit. Yeah, when the big changes hit the fall. Um I logged on to the start to the you know but I may hop in and you know build stuff back up, but say that I'm like I'm like, what's the point if if I have to go back and log in and you know redo all my shit again?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:00

Although they they did it. Well, there's a thing they're doing. I I saw an app out there the other day for Dune Awakening. Yeah, that actually tracks offline when you're offline and lets you use the app to track your base power.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:14

Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:16

Yeah, that's kind of cool. Where the hell was that? Uh I'll have to find. I thought I sent you the thread actually. I found it on Reddit, and it actually has the approval of devs. Oh, nice. They they actually because he put the thing in Reddit and he's like, I don't have official approval yet from the devs. Very next, the very first comment was the company going, as this app stands right now, we have no problems with it. Nice. He said, Look, if you don't want me to do Yeah, I'm trying to look in the track. You have it, I think I take it you have it, Bal.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:56

Yeah, Bal, if you've got it, if you can link me, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:59

Um yeah, I saw it. I haven't grabbed it, but that'd be cool. Yeah, so I saw that, which would be nice. Send an alarm for when your power is dead. Looking at you, Freebird.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:12

Shut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:17

Uh, which reminds me I need to play if I'm gonna play it all, I need to log in and throw some more batteries in my tiny little tiny little South Hogabase, basing my little 21 level 21 dude, um, who hasn't done hardly anything at this point. I I forgot he even existed the other day. Um I'm on the same server that Balavir is on now. Uh I had I move I moved him basically. Because if because of the server we were on is now is kaput. So you get a free server move in. Uh uh yeah. The oh, speaking of the thing I am kind of sort of interested in in Dune is they've put in private servers as in you can build your own. Yeah, um we however I talked to Cubby about that, and he's like, it's really finicky.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:10

Yeah, because I I yeah, because I I I was looking at setting up setting it up on my box, and it's a fucking nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:20

Yeah, it's a mess. And what was it? Hang on, let me say, let me find it real quick. Because they have one, they set one up, but he basically has to reboot it every day. Um he's like, you need a full you need to run the full game, you have to have at least 64 gig of memory because it sucks up 40 gig for the VM. Uh I'm like, yeah, I got 128 on my PC, that's not an issue. But yeah, the guy who's actually built, he's like, I've been popping in twice a day to do uh man to restart the server and do manual backups because the automated backups are not working right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:59

Oh great.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:01

Um so you have to do man a manual backup, and apparently it crashes a lot. And of course, when you crash, you lose everything back to your last you know, backup. So um it's it's real shaky right now, basically. But it's doable. So that would be kind of interesting. It's something all the time but they also it's something. I can't remember. Yes, yes. So that that's the thing, you know. I because again, I'm just not interested in the way they've implemented their PvP. They fucked that up pillar to post, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

You know, of any game, of all games that are just crying out for actual faction warfare, Dune would be the one.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:53

Uh, you know, uh so I get it, it's it's hard because you can't every server is the biggest faction wins. That's what's happening now, anyway. The biggest guild wins. Right. It's the that that's my problem, too. Sort of PvP in these games, and it doesn't matter whether it's EverQuest, WoW, whatever, it literally darkens your camera, it boils down to he who can throw the most bodies at it wins.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:24

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:26

Um every single time.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:28

That is unfortunately is not every single time. Again, don't act most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:34

So some of you would be like, oh, we used to win all the time with blah blah blah. Yes, yes, yes. You you but you are the exception to the rule. You are not not the average person, right? The average bear or the average person's experience. Right. So when you come from, make sure you come knowledgeable. That's all I say. Uh because I don't care. Uh by the way, I don't care. You want to come for me? Come for me. Good on you. Oh my. We can discuss it. We can discuss it. Then I'll charge you 20 bucks. Um so uh that's going to the quote channel.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:15

You want to come for me? Come for me. We can discuss it. I want to charge you 20 bucks. Um the face is 40. Uh damn it's listen. We're gonna there we go. Count it, baby. I knew I'd get one before we were done. Sometimes you just gotta go, how far do I have to push it tonight before I get my oh, it didn't hit.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:42

Why? I'll fix it later.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:46

Lame. Yeah. But the point is, if you if you have a if your contrary opinions are welcome, um, if you're respectful about it, we'll even discuss it. If you just come and tell us, if you just come in and say, uh yeah, two fat guys talking on the internet, well, you're gonna get ignored. Or if you just come in and rage about how fucking wrong we are, you're gonna get ignored. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:08

Yeah. Come and come and come and have a meaningful conversation. Yeah, come and have a meaningful conversation, and I will sit here and debate with you all day long. Right. The minute, right, the minute that you start throwing shit around is the minute I nope out the map.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:25

Just check out because there's no point because you don't want to talk, you just want to tell me how wrong I am. And I can get that anywhere. It won't even cost me 20 bucks.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:33

I can get that at home. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:35

Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:38

All right, chat. Well, as always, friends, I want to thank each and everyone of you for hanging out with us. We appreciate the hell of y'all. I I say it every time, but I love doing this damn show. Um I love sharing, I love sharing our silly little opinions on the internet with y'all. You guys make it all worth it. Thanks for hanging out. Um, we really appreciate it. I will be back.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:57

The irony that we bitch about people constantly sharing their opinions on the internet while we share our opinions on it. It's not lost.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:02

Oh, yeah, no, it never lost on us, no. Um, but uh I'll be back tomorrow with something uh to kind of make up for non-streaming last night. I was still not feeling great last night and just decided not to bother with you guys staring at me, looking looking like the fucking zombie on stream again. Um but I'll be back tomorrow night with something. Uh hopefully cheeks will be there. If not, friends, uh uh I'll catch you sometime this weekend. I'm gone Saturday, but I'll catch you guys at some point. Um we love y'all. Let's find someone to send y'all to, shall we?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:32

Yeah, who's on? DD bros are on. Oh, they're playing Warhammer too.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:36

Go to Bros. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're going to the bros.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:39

They're playing Space Marine.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:40

Yeah, let me wrap this. Ooh, yeah. We're uh let's see. So a streamerhouse. Streamerhouse. That's interesting. Was there an update? Oh, oh, they're oh, they're doing dark tide.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:52

Oh, they're oh, was there an update for darktide? No, it says Space Marine.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:58

Uh uh, well, uh no, uh Streamerhouse is doing Darktide.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:05

Um, I think there was a Dark Tide, go to the Rose. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Alright, guys. Like I said, be kind, choose joy, show love. Thanks for hanging out. We love y'all. We will talk to you guys a little bit later. Okay, guys.