Summer Slump? What Summer Slump?!

Aggressively Casual tackles the summer games media news lul the only way we know how...by talking about everything and anything that comes to our minds! Join FreeBird and Cheeks as we take a look at the latest in the gaming and pop culture industries! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Alright, welcome everybody to Aggressively Casual. My name is Freebird, and with me to my internet left as always is Cheeks. Say hi, Cheeks.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Hi.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Because I haven't been here for the last three hours. So I don't think I need to ask this question. But I'm gonna ask the question anyways because it's tradition. Cheeks, what have you been playing recently?

SPEAKER_04 0:21

Um, so there's this little game called EverQuest Legends that launched.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

What?

SPEAKER_04 0:27

I know, and I have been playing that pretty much exclusively for the last week. I have been playing um so yeah. With that is I looked at a couple other things, but for the most part, it's been EQ.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

That is news to me. I have never heard of EverQuest Legends. Cheeks, can you give us a rundown of what EverQuest Legends is?

SPEAKER_04 0:47

The power fantasy version of classic EverQuest. Um you get triple classing, so you each have three classes. Yes, like that server, but not like that server. It's it's it's very similar to the hero's journey with what they had set up. Um now, whether it's not whether or not this was in development before or after that server appeared, nobody really knows. But anyway, um most everything is supposed to be soloable uh given your build. All the all of the class combinations are supposed to be viable, at least in the basic tier up to 50. Yeah, so it's a good time. You can group, you don't have to group, you can do all the things that you always wanted to do solo. For example, I'm I was down in SolarSec B doing the Ifridi Lord solo tonight. That was something I never could have done live ever. Um you know, there were classes that could do it, I was not one of them. Nice, so yeah. Uh but there are a lot of people that never played EQ picking this up. Yeah. So give it a shot.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Absolutely. It's a lot of fun. It's it's a really, really good time. Uh, I've also been playing EverQuest Legends. Um, in between uh bouts with the Division II, uh, playing the new uh the new Dust Storm event, which is a blast. Um really, really happy. Alright, really, really happy with that event. Uh, but I've also been dabbling in some Everquest Legends. I am currently level 30 and I'm looking for the next place to go. I think I've got it figured out where I want to go and what I want to do. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go um where we talked about last night um and go hang out there for a bit and uh go get some other spells and have some fun. It is a it is an absolute blast. It really is. Um, cannot recommend that game enough. It is $20 for the game, and then it's uh $10 a month, and that is a phenomenal value for the amount of content you get. And like Cheek said, it is designed to be what is what they call solo first, but not solo only. So you can play the entirety of the game up to 50 so or 30 games solo, but you can also group up in small groups. I would say thr probably four, three to four is probably the sweet spot from what I've gathered. Um in in in the readings. Yeah, in the readings that I have done. If you get a little if you get larger than that, I think it gets a little wonky at times.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

So where did we talk about you going last night? I don't actually remember.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

I have it written down. Uh shit. Um somewhere. Yeah, we were talking about you could do well.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

We were talking about you're probably looking at lower guck.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Um we yeah, we were talking about you can do cast, you can do miss more. We were just yeah, we were talking we talked about miss more, we talked about um especially if you go in the the uh especially if you go in the back entrance. Oh my we talked about we also talked about um that other spot in in the in Wrath Mountains um because that's like 32 to 37, but I was and we talked and then we yeah, but really I think I think lower guck is probably probably where I'm gonna go because well supposed well supposedly supposedly I can also do split paw.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

Supposedly, yes, you could do split paw. Um split paw is more difficult, I can tell you, having done both of them, because split paw has been revamped to to EQ Legends. Right. So but I enjoyed split paw a lot of healers, but yeah, you know, it is what it is. Is that where the stop healing quote came from? No, I actually think that came from permafrost because I was getting double healers in a group, and I you know they were healing each other. Chad, if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's this. But yeah, but it's a lot of fun. Um I'll be playing it probably for the foreseeable future. I'm already trying to plan my second trio once this one is to 50. I am about 13% to 45.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Oh, that's weird, pal, because I heard it. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Oh yeah, Twitch twitching.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, twitch be twitching. Um, but what we we've got I I I said the title of tonight's show is August is weird because it is. We are in that weird part of summer where everybody in the games media industry seems to take like a couple like a month off, right? There's not a lot of news coming out, but it's also that kind of weird time because we've also we we we've got Gamescom coming up, we've got um D23 for Disney fans, which always brings gaming news, especially the last couple of years coming up. So we're going to be flooded with news in a few in a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

But right now we're in that thing coming up. Yeah, uh Hell Let Loose Vietnam on the 13th. Yep. Sinking C2 on the 18th.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Um Mistfall Hunters, by the way. We were talking about that game. It's on Game Pass. It's on Game Pass.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Is it? Oh, okay. That explains why everybody and their dog is playing.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, it's oh so is Corsair Cove.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Nice. And Corsair Cove's a good time. If you like city builders and you like pirates, give Corsair Cove.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

The other, the other, the other new one that came out is Beast of Reincarnation, which is an action RPG. Looks pretty good. That's also on Game Pass. Those three titles right there are on Game Pass. Plus also And of course uh the 27th Zero Company comes out. Oh, I can't wait. I'm so excited. Although I'm not buying the limited run games collectors edition of that game for $300.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Ouch. Yeah, I don't hear it on my end either. What the what Twitch Twitch is twitching, but we'll worry about it later. Anyway, yeah, uh August is a slow time next month, which which I'm kind of thankful for, to be honest. Oh, right, yeah, sorry. I ain't gonna have a lot of playtime over the next couple weeks to do much of anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Fair.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Um fair. I ain't gonna be doing much of anything but laying in bed.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

So it's true. It's true. Um, so we we we we we have we have a short list, but an interesting list to talk to talk about tonight, including uh it's been kind of a slow couple weeks. Uh uh Spider-Man brand new day. The brand new Spider-Man movie. Um, everyone and their mom noticed that all of these like uh Spider-Man, the movie Spider-Man does in the movie looked really familiar. And people started looking at the Spider-Man games from Insomniac and going, wait a minute. It turns out that Tom Holland confirmed that they pulled moves from the game to be to use in the movie, and then and then they turned around and put the movie suit, the new movie suit, into Spider-Man 2. Right, into the game, that's cool. And I'm like, hell yeah!

SPEAKER_04 8:11

That's awesome. Um, the the one thing really that jumped out at me Easter egg wise was the recreation of the original Spider-Man 1, Amazing Spider-Man 1 comic.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah, it was so good.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Jumped right out at me because I actually used to own that comic.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Oh wait, yeah, but you say used to it, it just hurts my heart because uh I damn.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Yeah, flood.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Oh no, oh, that was a that was a flood victim.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

It was a flood victim.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Damn, but yeah, that that was really, really cool. That was that was a cool tip to start the show tonight. I thought that was super neat. Um, I actually went and replayed a little bit of Spider-Man 2 the other day because the movie made me want to play with that suit and wanted to check it out, and it it's really fun.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

It's really all of the money. So um uh yeah, it's the second movie in two weeks to make a billion dollars.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, it's it it's like one point one billion dollars. Oh yeah, right. Well, and and and like like that that's the thing we talked about after you had watched it, right? You after you'd seen it. You you you said that like you you said it was good, and and and and and it it kind of brought back for a lot of people it seems. I mean it made a billion dollars, it brought back like what the MCU can be, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Yeah, I said, I said, and I quote, the MCU really needed a bona fide hit. Yep, they needed something to be popular again that people were like, okay, this is good. And then I see I saw a comment that was like, see, we don't have superhero movie fatigue, we have bad superhero movie fatigue.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Right. And and and well, that's the thing is like Kevin Feige even came out and admitted he said, he said, from now on, we are focusing on quantity over quality because we beat you over the head with things and we didn't always hit the mark.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Well, and they went hard in the multiverse, which I think was probably a bit of a misstep. It did allow them to do some things, but it also allows them to but it also gives you a crutch and an out, and I think that cost them.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

It allowed for some really cool stuff, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

But it also allowed for some things where you're like, and basically Secret War is the end of the multiverse, yeah, exactly. Which is fun because in the comics it's also well, the original one in the comics didn't have fuck all to do with the multiverse, but right later that the later one did. Yeah. This is I'm sure I'm sure this is based, this is obviously based on the later one, given the things that are how it's how it um it's not based with the beyonder, it's based with doom. Right. And it's so it's very much the later one. I'm a comic book nerd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

I'm I'm really yeah, and and and and to be honest, it got me. I I was already pretty excited for Doomsday, right? Because I want to see where they're going with this story, um, and and and I want to see where they take the story that we know and if what they add that's new, and all this stuff, right? Um, I I'm really excited for that because I I I and I'm excited to other. I'm I I was a huge X-Men X-Men k kid growing up. I love the X-Men. Like, and and so to see some of those characters come back um one last time, let's be you know, as one last ride for some of the one last one last ride for the second time.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

With the new X-Men, so yeah, um which will be an all-new cast.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

So exactly. So I'm really excited with yeah, yeah. So I'm excited to see where that goes. But that being said, it it it's an interesting time for for that industry, especially because also today, um uh uh Disney uh Disney CEO Josh DeMaro had some comments about Mandalorian and Grogu and Moana saying that while the movies underperformed at the box office, they actually made money for the company in every other avenue, including gaming. They mentioned gaming specifically for Star Wars, saying that gaming saw a 205% increase um based around that that time period when Mando and Grogu was before it came out and then after it came, like a month after it came out. That's like those are those are stupid numbers.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

That's a world that's a that's a part of the world that's kind of ripe for a game, too, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, well, and the the other thing bounty hunting RPG, right? Right. Well, it it it's it's like I said for years. If we are going to be stuck in this live service video game, hell, right, give me Star Wars, but make it destiny. Right. Someone make that game.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

Something like Bounty Hunters is is a perfect vehicle for that, right? Oh, yeah. Um are you listening, Lucasfilm?

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Right? Hey Lucasfilm Games, you exist again. Make the damn game. Right? Bounty hunting, open world, live service. Yep, make it, make it, make it, make the game, make the game. Right? I wanna I wanna I want to fashion I want a fashion bounty hunter. Come on!

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Right, I want I want to put Bascar armor on my F.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

You've already proved you're willing to enter that with the Destiny collaboration, so just do it yourselves now, please. So yeah, and in in another news, uh so EA went private. Uh that deal was uh was official as of yesterday. Uh the Saudi Arabia PIF completed a $55 billion takeover of EA. They now owe 93. Right? They now own 93% of the company. And so uh some interesting information came out after this uh that this all went down, is that they took out a massive loan from Chase to do this entire deal, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:20

But here's the thing here's the thing you don't do that if you don't think you're not gonna make that back. Well, right, so so that's the thing. The debt is Arabia and they have more money than God. Well, right. You don't do that. I mean, 55 billion is still a lot of money, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

But the debt, the debt ballooned to ten times what it was because they took out that massive loan. So but the means there it means nobody could match that.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

That's the thing, right? Well, right. They're like, here you go, we're going to buy this, and nobody is going to stop us because no one can match this number.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Well, well, well, well, let's be real. What that means for the consumer, for us, is that we are going to see more microtransactions coming into EA titles to make up for the debt. If you thought it was bad with college football this past the the the couple months ago or last month, I got news for you.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

More microtransactions or anything, you're gonna see them remove more features and try to sell them back to you. Yeah, and the way you stop this is to vote with your wallet and don't fucking buy them.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

It's not going to get any better until it gets worse. And that that's the shittiest thing. And again, Cheeks is right. Vote with your wallet, stop buying the game.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Because that's a whole lot of deficit to make up.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Well, especially because you, I mean, you you know who now has part of that majority stake, right? Jared Kushner.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

LL Ray.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah. Uh-huh. We don't we don't normally d dive into that realm on this show, chat, but needless to say, that's not a good look for anybody. It just is, you know, it just is what it is. But at the same time, like I said, uh the industry, industry-wide notes, uh uh doing a bunch of research past couple of days to figure out what to talk about this week because you know, we didn't have much to talk about until we didn't have much to talk about until this morning. And and and literally the last week of July in particular was, and I quote, from every news source that I saw, relatively quiet. So the suburb slump has finally hit the media. It's a miracle. They had nothing to talk about. Well, the thing is, you always know they have nothing to talk about when they start making shit up. Well, they start making shit up. And suddenly 20 opinion pieces come out of IGN, and I'm like, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

None of them make all sense, but they're not.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Well, I'm saying none of them are any good. Right, none of them are any good, but you know what? You know what?

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Interestingly presented.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Well, right, exactly. That's honestly been more the problem with IGN is that they they present whoever is writing these op-eds, right? Because they have different op-ed writers, they're different review writers, but whoever is presenting the opinion does a terrible job of presenting the opinion that they're trying to get across. And the thing that bugs me the most, and I will call you out of this, IGN, the thing that bugs me the most is I know how your structure works, right? You you you have to submit an article, right? That article has to be read by another human being. That means that two people, at least two people, have read this article before it ever goes on the site. And that editor is supposed to look at that article and go, yay or nay. And if the editor is saying that this article is okay to go out, and the opinion is presented so poorly, my eyes are going crossed reading it. What does that say about the quality of work you put out over time?

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Right. Here's one for you. I'm I'm overall massively overpowered. Yeah. Because I've been reading this site for a thousand years.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

And here's the headline. Roblox claims it's safe.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Oh. Okay. Do you? Yeah, okay. I'm gonna go with no. No. It's not.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Oh! We can we can talk about this. We can talk about this. Speaking, because we're we're we're about to get into the MMO section of the show, uh, I forgot to add this to the document today. Uh, the Guild Wars III uh uh article that came out today that we that I sent you about um the the playable races that are coming to Guild Wars III, and there's only four of them. Now, that doesn't sound like a lot, right? But then you remember there's only five in all of Guild Wars II.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Now that being said, not a lot.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Right, but that right, but that being said, they did say that in three, they want to add more races and more species down the road. And they're working on the way to do that.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

But when the game launches, gotta go in the cash shop, watch it.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Right, oh absolutely, right, right. But when the game launches, you're gonna be able to play as a human, uh, a Sura, uh uh, uh, the the the the the bear dudes whatever to uh play as before, the Kodan, and then there is a third or fourth, excuse me, I can I can count, a fourth mystery species they haven't revealed yet. Now, I'm really I I I I think that it's really cool because they said that um technically they aren't races, they're doing species, right? And the other thing is that they're not there's no like racial, there's no like, oh, you've gotta play, you know, as a human to get X benefit. There's they're not doing that. It's literally just play what you want to play. What looks cool to you, right? Play it. Right. Love that idea, really do like that idea.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Well, yeah, it really makes it makes the races basically your cosmetic, right? This is what I want to look like, but doesn't affect anything about the game. On the other hand, I I can see the other argument. You know, traditionally, there are some things that make races more viable. For example, we'll go back to our early example, EverQuysic. Yeah, nobody wanted to play a human because you couldn't see in the fucking dark.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Even with a light stone, it sucked. So uh, you know, plus for me, I I rarely play humans in my games. Um says the guy who's currently playing human. Well, I was gonna say, says the guy who's currently playing a human. Playing an ogre, playing a human. I'm a dude, playing a dude, and another dude. Twitch, flip that. Um but but yeah, but but they they fixed it here where nobody has that problem.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

So um and and and so that the so uh we'll we'll we'll we'll leave we'll leave the the uh the Lord of the Rings stuff uh uh for after. Uh talking about EverQuest, right? It has its hooks in a lot of people, right? It does. And the interesting thing that I've seen as as a byproduct of EverQuest Legends is people are spending money for daybreak all access and going and trying EverQuest and Everquest 2. More likely, but more specifically, EverQuest 2. EverQuest 2 seen a pretty significant uptick, right? But but right about EverQuest Legends specifically. What is it about Legends that has its hooks in so many people? We are seeing a huge turnout of new players for what is essentially a retrofit of a 27-year-old game.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

I I have an answer, but I want to know what's going on. We've talked about some of this, right? Like we were talking about it last night, how we can play And the combat is such that you can be active in the combat and still carry on a crucifixion. You know. Um there's times I can't do that and like wow. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. In other games, you're just like, okay, you know, um, but the combat is paced in such a way that you can still kind of, you know, like earlier I was down in Soul B and I was having dinner while I was fighting three or four mobs at once. Right. Um the but the game itself is it's just it's good, it plays well. Um and yes, it is a retrofit of a 27-year-old game, which is so it's always played well for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Um there are some there is some, you know, what I would call you know ancient jank to deal with, right? Yes. The first hurdle, the first hurdle is can you get past the way it looks graphically? Um for me, this is no problem. Okay, because I and for a lot of us, for a lot of us, the answer is plain and simple, nostalgia. And it's also a chance to go and do those things that I couldn't do in 1999. Right. Because I didn't have the group or I didn't have the dang it, hang on. The cat just opened the door.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yeah. So for me, right? I I played. Oh, well. I played EverQuest um when I was let's see, it came out in 99. I was 90.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

When you was like four.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

I was nine, thank you. I played, I played I played EverQuest. God damn it, cheeks. Count it. I played EverQuest uh when when I when I when I was very, very young, right? But it left an impression on me. Right, that to this day has shaped some of the way that I look at what an MMO should and shouldn't be. Absolutely. Yes, yes, other games have come and and and done things better. Other games have come and and and and and done different takes on MMOs and all this. But but other games have built upon what EverQuest built. Right, exactly. The the thing the thing the thing the thing with with with EverQuest Legends, right, the the its biggest selling point, I think, for for anybody, is that it will at this point it will run on any fucking machine.

unknown 24:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Yeah, you could probably run it on the calculator.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

I could probably honestly, I could probably run this game on a fucking emulated box on my fucking Android tablet. Yeah, most likely. I guarantee you I could do that. You know what I mean? Like I I guarantee you that that could be a thing that as long as I had the drive space, that's a thing that I could do. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Well, and EQ Legends ain't exactly huge.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

I think yeah, I think I think it's like 16 gig. I I I I installed it on my handheld uh again last night to see if I can get the controller to work. Um spoiler alert, chat. It's a mess. Offer the handheld? Yeah, yeah. Um it it's yeah, it sort of works.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

I've got I can move seven gig.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Uh seven, okay. I I can I can move around with my left stick, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

And I can click on the spells with my touch screen, right? That's really cool. Um, but there are some growing pains that we need to figure out with the controller if we're going to continue to use the controller to play the game. Um, I believe Game John has said they want to add native controller support, which would be great because they should they should take a page from Guild Wars Reforged. Guild Wars Reforged on controller and on mobile is hmm. By the way, if you want something to do when you're laying up, cheeks, Guild Wars Reforge on your iPad. Do it. It's fucking amazing. No, it's incredible. It's a good time.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Um I had to have to buy it for a second time, and I don't want to play it that bad.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

I thought you had it.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

I do, but typically the iOS versions are separate.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Nope. They are they are it it is the same access you have from the thingy, I believe. Uh huh. Yeah, because it's all tied to your internet account.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

Good lord.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Um, but anyways, EverQuest Legends.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Um Kitty's got the zoom the the Yeah, so the game I I so I read I sent you that article, uh, that timeline of EQ. And uh the guy who wrote it obviously had some happening because my experience for that was very different. But the thing about EverQuest is once you start getting into it, the game is deep. And what I mean is has a deep story. There's lore for everything, but a lot of it you can find in the game. You gotta look for it, but it's there. Yeah. Um you know, it is one of the few games where I've gone in, I've read a book on the table because you can. Right. Some of them are readable, not all of them are, but some of them are. Um but overall, the game EverQuest is still kind of the template, right? Right, yeah. Um Wow is definitely the game that built on the house house that EverQuest built. EverQuest is not the first MMO, and looking at you, Rubies of Haven't Died. Um even Ultima Online, or frankly, multiplayer battle tech EGA on the G network.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Um, in the mid-90s. 500 people on all connected with 2400 baud modems, which for the time was quite fucking impressive. Yeah. Or or Air Warrior, but um, but it's not your fantasy MMO, you know, but Rubies of Eventide was, and uh god, I was at the Gym Con when they were handing out those stupid rubies.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Cardboard rubies were I bet they were.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Oh, they were everywhere. It's like 96 or 7, something like that. Yeah, but for your first person playable MMO, right? Everquest is the template, and it's still the template, and it's still for the most part the blueprint that almost every MMO that comes out is built upon. Those bones go back to EverQuest. So when you're playing the template, you're like, okay, this is pretty solid, right? You know, um, but yeah, why how is it attracting new players? Probably just because it's good, and this particular version of it is the perfect intro, I think. Um yeah, oh I I I agree 100%. And then if you want to make it harder for yourself, you can go play classic. Um, because live now there's so many things they put into live to to make it easier to quote unquote solo things, and by solo I mean take a gaggle of mercenaries with you to form your own party. Yeah, but um, so it is a much easier game than when it when it came out. Uh and and I'm not trying to say that oh my god, we were hardcore, it's just everquest itself, the way it was designed, it didn't hold your hand at all. Right. As a matter of fact, tried to cut your hands off. Um now later we did find out that uh some of the some of the bigger guilds and guys that were able to do the things they were doing because their guild leaders worked for Varent Interactive and could play during the day and get paid for it. Right. Um but regardless, uh I have a Fuhrer story after the thing too, which is kind of funny. Uh Fuhrer was the guild leader of Fires of Heavens, Alex, something or other, also worked for Varrant. Then went on to this little game called World of Warcraft.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Oh, yeah. Oh well, yeah, little tiny tiny little project.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

It's an indie game. Nobody's probably ever heard of it that's listening to us, you know. Um that it is right, and I mean I played the shit out of it. I played it through Burning Crusade hard after Crusade. It was on and off for many, many, many, many, many years. Um it's been a while since I played it, probably two years now, three years. Right since we last played. I know you're still playing, but since I last played. Um but anyway, it's just it is it is what it is, and it's some there's something about EverQuest Like EverQuest itself, it's kind of hard to put your finger on. What does keep drawing you back? And I think part of it is the richness of the world, yeah. Um, and even I don't even think World Warcraft does it as well. I really don't. Um they do it really well, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, they do it, yeah, they do it really well.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

But yeah, and I I just it doesn't, it's never felt quite as deep to me. Uh maybe it's because the EverQuore literally goes back to the creation of the world, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Well, so I mean tech technically, technically, so does well, but but yeah, it it it it it it took the thing the thing the the interesting thing about Warcraft lore specifically is that Warcraft was technically never meant to be an MMO. Right? Warcraft was meant to be other things, and they turned it into an MMO.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

They turned it into an MMO, yeah, sure. Yeah, and uh I played the second game exhaustively. I played the first one and I played it a lot, but it did not hold a candle to Warcraft 2.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Oh Warcraft?

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Oh man, Warcraft 2 was peak real-time strategy, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Well, and and the the the funny thing about Warcraft 2 is Warcraft 2 still holds up really well.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

It does, it does hold up. Dwarf Griffin Riders are still king. Um but I played three, I liked three.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Didn't they do wait?

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Is it to his peak?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Did you ever play the the the Warcraft 2 remaster they did that they did a few years ago?

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Okay, I did play it. I did play it.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

Okay, that's why I say Griffin Riders are still king. Um just wave after wave. Um so you know, but yeah, and it's just that I, you know, like I said, I played the original one. Hell my capstone project for my my programming degree was essentially a clone of Warcraft 1.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Oh that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Um built from the ground up, but that was kind of the what I built. I built a turn-based, turn-based strategy, so it was technically built more after like masters of magic, master, you know, of that sort of thing. Yeah, but still, it was you know built on that kind of the way it looked and all that sort of thing. Yeah, um, that was my capstone project, and I had to fight for that. I had to convince my professor to let me do a game. He's like, why the hell should I let you do a game? So I basically had to write a paper proposing it and pointing out that well, games touch every piece of this machine. Yeah, I'm doing input, I'm doing output, I'm doing sound, graphics, every aspect of the computer games touch. Right. And to be to be fair, he was like, you know, I never actually, you're right. I never actually that never really occurred to me. Right. You know, you know, a spreadsheet doesn't do that, but yeah. But yeah, I don't know. At the end of the day, it is what it is, and it's it's just there's something about it. Right. So if you will.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Right. So so speaking of MMOs, speaking of MMOs, um, another MMO that I've played a lot of that I think you've dipped your toes into or tried to every now and again, um, and hasn't kind of grocked with you is Lord of the Rings Online. Um they they announced a bit, but never, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

They announced they announced at Gen Con their newest expansion, which is uh the Wolves of Mordor. Um we are going back to Mordor, uh, which is confused with Wolves of Gondor, completely different docks. Right. Uh but this this is taking um still waiting for you to hit that counter, by the way. I did, it didn't take. I don't something is wonky tonight. I don't know what's going on. Um uh so this is the the this this is going back to to Mordor um and it is focusing on the eastern regions of Mordor and dipping into Stalgon's past as Lord of Wolves, which is super neat from a lore perspective. You want to talk about lore? This sounds really, really good. Um that being said, they've taken an interesting approach with this expansion. Um it'll come out in the fall, uh, which I mean means it could come anywhere from you know probably September to December. Uh that seems to kind of be there, you know, but whatever. Um level cap is not going up this time. Um level cap will remain where it is, which honestly for people who are just getting into the game is a good thing. I think the level cap is like 150 now. It's pretty high. Right. It's a pretty high level cap. So, like, if you want to play the game and get into it, you kind of have a bit of a rough go. Um at times. Um that being said, it they're introducing two new gameplay systems with the expansion that I think are interesting. Um, they've had a housing system in the game for a long time, but they're introducing, like a lot of these like kind of like cozy crafting games, they're introducing a neighbor system, which allows you to invite NPC neighbors into your player housing area, and these NPCs will have different traits and like backstories and daily quests you can complete, and uh something they're calling secret passions. I don't know what that means. I don't know that I want it to be a lot of people. Right? Uh but players can build up a friendship with these NPCs over time through giving them gifts and using and doing these quests. And um it looks interesting, right? But the other the other thing that looks more interesting to me is this uh what survival instinct system, um, which it which is a account-wide progression system for the end game. So it is an account-wide progression track that is active specifically within these wolves. Right, so it's active specifically within these wolves of Mordor regions, right? It will give you new skills, new tactics, new enhancements, as they're calling lessons, without raising the level cap, which means it provided it it gives progression to uh the entire account that ults can also benefit from.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Um they also it also integrates like the Evercrest legacy system.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah, kind of. Kind of. Um, it integrates with three different regional factions.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah, you do it now.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Um uh one has a physical focus, one has a tactical focus, and one has a mix of both. That system to me sounds absolutely incredible, and I cannot wait to try it out. Um that being said, it could also really fall on its face.

SPEAKER_04 38:16

Well, right. This is a system that could be great, could suck. Right. And if it's somewhere in between, it's still gonna suck.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Right. Yeah, they they have to hit this, and then and they have to hit it right. Um we're also getting uh we're also getting uh one new three-player instance, two new six-player dungeons instances, excuse me, and then we're getting a new raid. So cool, awesome, yay. Um, but I think that that new system uh uh has a lot of potential. And you're right. If it's either going to be good or suck, and there's no in between. Um and and I really, really hope they nail that.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Right. Absolutely. Well, because if they don't, I mean obviously it'll just kind of fall flat on its face.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Um but reading the article, they're kind of aware of some things that they've done in the past that yeah, kind of falling on their face and they yeah, well, because I mean, yeah, the first time you go to Mordor in this game, it's um it's it's pretty it's pretty dark, man. It's um well, it's Mordor. Oh, right, but well right, but I mean it's it's um it's dark.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

Yeah, Lord of the Rings Online.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

It's dark. Yes, yes, you should, Nell. Yes, you should. Because this this new system I'm talking about is only max level endgame stuff for the new for the new expansion, the new zone.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Hit max level, you cheap skate. You you make time, just just quit working. That's what I did.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

Apparently. Well, I'm about to, but I ain't gonna be doing a lot of gaming.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Alright, must you're doing a lot of laying in bed and relaxing.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

Relaxing.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Please see the finger quotes.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Meanwhile, laying in bed watching the clock to my next pain bed.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

What game do you want me to play? EQL, Div2, WoW, Sword Dry, I have no time. Yes, play all of them. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

You call yourself a gamer.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yeah, you call yourself a gamer? God, oh.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

A real gamer, you wouldn't even ask that question.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Oh, here. Well, here's here's what you do, Nell. You uh, I mean, you you you you you you you're one of them streamers, right? You uh you set up you set up a schedule so you have a specific day or time you play a certain game. And then you um what's what's what's that word? Uh stick to it. Phrase, stick to it. Yeah, that. That. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Side note here. Every time we call Nell Star Nell, I just want to ask if his last name is Finwick. You're fucking old. And as an if he's Canadian.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

And then, yeah, we have we we have Galactic Racer coming out in October, zero company hits at the end of the month, and then yeah, we have Monsters and Memories is in the fall. Uh oh god, Druid's fire is getting into installed DDO. Why? Why? Why would you why would you do that to yourself, Nel Star? Why why would you do that, Nell?

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Just one more game you won't play. Ah, Rift.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

You forgot you started playing Rift. Rift, I mean, yeah, Rift was a good time. Rift was good. Rift was a good time. But why why why why why do you want to play DDO? DDO is um Hold up.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Hold up. You're about to stop preaching and go to Madeline. DDO is actually pretty good, and they've made it better.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Oh, have they? Because the last time I played DDo, it was not great.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

Yeah, they've made it much more soloable for one thing. Um I might perish.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

You did this to yourself, Nelsar!

SPEAKER_04 42:25

I love I love DDo from the beginning. Yeah, Monsters and Memories I got my eye on. Um Monsters Memories, yeah, Monsters Memorals comes out soon.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Yeah, Monsters Memory Looks Gary.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Oh god, really? Jesus.

unknown 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yup, yup, yup. Lord, we're uh we're we're oh man, we're drowning in that. Oh no, we're drowning in good game, good games to play. Whatever shall we do.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Right. Um well, but the problem is with prices today, yeah, you have to be picking, you have to pick and choose what you buy. Um so if anybody wants to send us codes hand to hand. Right. Um but because especially at $70 a game, I have to be real picky about why I can't just buy everything these days anymore. Up to 60, I was still pretty much finding a way.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

I gotta read that. I want I want y'all's take on that. I think it's obvious, but a classical MMO Monsters and Memories?

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Well, Monsters and Memories is made in the classic EverQuest vein, actually. Yeah. Um, it is a it it is by their own admission somewhat of a spiritual successor. Yeah, it will not hold your hand. I've I've messed around in some of the betas.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Um monsters and memories looks like it could be really good could be really good.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

Yeah. Um, there's a lot of potential in what I've seen and what I've played. I haven't played a lot of it because some the betas are pretty short normally. Yeah. Um and I often don't have time to get it. Yeah, monsters.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Monsters and Memories hits early access October 1st.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

Yeah, I know it's coming pretty soon. So uh I'll probably be giving that a look. But it is designed for you know old school. You're gonna have to have a group. Yeah. So I'm I'm real excited for Monsters and Memories. Um I'm not really excited. I'm excited, but I'm not like real excited. I'd be more excited if I didn't have legends.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Well, fair. But also by that time, you know, we're talking, we're talking three months from now, right? Like, how much of legends will there still be for you to dig your dig your heels dig in into?

SPEAKER_04 44:40

Depends on how many trios I want to run up.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

It's good enough that I'm actually starting to contemplate what trio do I want to do next. So right. You know, we'll see. Yeah, fair. And it it's for those of us that don't know life the game, he says is he's just turned 45 in less than a week. Um, but there are 50s doing plainest raiding through plain of sky already. So yeah, yeah. I saw a guy earlier today that linked his cloak of flames tier six. Oh god, that's a nag that's a Nagathan drop. It's a dragon drop, it's a raid drop. You can only do raid once, yeah. Right. That's not true. You only get all of the loot once a week. Every other time you can do it, you're gonna get only one piece of loot. So he's basically been no lifing Nagathan, apparently. That's kind of a multiple statement on multiple levels there, right? Um, a cloak of or he just burned a whole lot of moats to get that to tier six, right? Um, but point is you've got people putting a whole lot more time than me in this game. I'm 45, I don't feel like I've been playing that hard. I really don't. I just don't feel like I've been playing that hard. I have used all of my available game time this past week.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Um feels like EQL is a fleeting time sink, people are flying through content, and that's never good.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

You know, you can say that, and if it is, it is. I don't agree. I'm I'm not really gonna go into it here. Um, because the one thing I think that holds them back is not allowing multiple characters, but because I can just run up multiple characters, my my single character is also all of my alts, and everquest has always been an alt game, yeah. It's always been about alt characters. Um, you know, personally, you could say that about every MMO. There's there's zero way a company can keep up with the content needed to constantly be churning new content for for the upper end of the user base. You just can't, it cannot be done because fast as you put it out, they're gonna eat it in a week max. Doesn't matter if it's WoW, EQ, DDO, Lotro, Destiny, Halo, whatever. You put out new high-level content, somebody's gonna blow through it in two days. And then they're gonna bitch that they're bored. They're like, oh, there's nothing to do. But those of us that have legitimate time constraints, it takes a lot longer, and that's the bulk of your player base. Most of your player base, and yes, technically, we now I now count as a content creator, but I don't play games for a living. So I only get a few hours a day to play, and that's not every day. So your average gamer is not gonna blow through that contract content that fast. But you know what? If they do, they do. Okay, go play something else. That's the beauty of gaming. You know, you don't have to turn one game into a job. We live in this paradigm now where they've preyed on FOMO, they have preyed on the fear of missing out to the point where people just get in a game and they're like, okay, this is the only thing I'm ever gonna play. Um, yes, I've played EverQuegends solid for a week, but I won't always play it solid. There'll be other things I'll play. Um, but they prey on this fear of missing out, so they want that you make in the division, is a perfect example. They absolutely want you to play the division and nothing else. But you can't keep you can't keep that content churn going. There's not enough content in the world to keep that going. So you're always gonna have this the content droughts, if you will, whatever you want to call them, um, where people are just done with the content and they're struggling for people things to do. Um but a lot of the people that are flying through the content right now have been in this thing since the closed beta, so they know the exact path to take. Um, but I could also launch, you know, EverQuest has also always been about the journey. It's never really been about the end game, it's the journey to the end game. So if you're flying through the content and not taking the chance to explore the world a little bit, you're doing yourself a disservice. That's why every time I see one of these threads about where should you go, oh, you go here, you go to Befallen, you go to Negina, then you go this, this out there to go and explore. They don't get you there, well, A, just as fast. But it's not the meta path. So they don't ever mention it because they all want to rush to the end game. But like there but the problem is there's not a lot of in-game right now. There's like three zones. Um, yes, they are. They're rushing to get to the end game, and then they're promptly gonna start complaining that they're bored because there's nothing to do. Um, and again, I haven't been playing that hard. I'm 45 in a week. You know, um this thing came out literally a week ago yesterday. Um so it just is what it is. The the problem is the your player base is not gonna leave because some of yes, some people leave because they get bored. Most people just start another trio and keep rolling. That's true. Yeah. That's just you know. Um, but but you you can literally say that about any game, any MMO, especially. Oh, I'm done. I got to the end game. I'm I've done this raid 30 times. Why should I do it a 31? And yet they do. You know, that's true. Um the only the only way we're gonna know if this game has legs for the long haul is to get there. Yeah. Right now, you really can't make that prediction. You're making that prediction on a such a tiny data set that it that the numbers don't the numbers don't work. That's it. It's an invalid statistical data set. You don't we have the game's been allowed for a week. We have no idea how me if people are gonna stick around past the free month or not. You know, I plan on sticking past the free month, but we'll see what happens. You know, and and that's assuming that's assuming the devs don't walk off the deep end and you know, with some of their choices. Because that'll kill a game faster than nothing to do. I'm looking at you, Destiny. Um, but you know, overall it's a good time for 20 bucks out of it in a month. Um and then you either never have to play it again or you can pay 10 bucks keep playing it. Just like, you know, other MMOs out there. Do I think this should have made a gone maybe maybe been like a free-to-play with that sort of thing? Eh, whatever. I'd rather not, actually, because that brings with it so much more crap. Um, you just have to look at EverQuest Live to see that. And their free-to-play tier is not great anyway. It's not the worst. I'm not gonna you, the Audible Immortal. But it ain't the best either. What would be the best? Probably ESO. Free-to-play tier, maybe. I don't know. Certainly, probably the best value for their well, of course, all access gives you access to everything, so you don't have to buy the expansions either. So, but yeah. But even if people leave, they'll be back at the first of the year when QNARC drops. Um oddly enough, when EverQuest first launched, they were launching expansions so fast that people weren't able to burn through the content in time. But a lot of that was because of the way the content worked with the way you had to key for it and the the mechanics of the game in you know the early 2000s. Um when it wasn't as nearly as easy to key as it became later. When everyone had to have the key, you couldn't just have one person that had the key. Everyone had to have the key, and they had to do the quest to get the key. And some of those were kind of ridiculously long. Yeah, it's true. Um like my never mind.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Yeah, oh yeah. Speaking of ridiculously long, but yeah, I I I think that I I think that EQ Legends has some fairly long legs. Um it is it is We'll find out. Right. It is it is it it it it is it is more a matter of you know And if I'm wrong now, you can just say, well, I told you so. Right, right. My biggest concern has been and will be until they prove me otherwise, um, Game John or Daybreak or whoever it is, right? And their communication.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

Or lack thereof or communication currently sucks, yeah, or miscommunication.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

What however you want to phrase that, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:07

That's what I was saying. If the that's why I mentioned that, you know, if the devs don't walk off the deep end with some of their choices, yeah. You know, looking at you, Destiny. Um I I don't I think I think your worries are unfounded, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

Yeah, part of it is part of this too, is people are treating this like every other MMO that count has come out, and it's not designed to be treated that way. Right. You know, um, and that's gonna take some time for people to adjust, that will cost some players. That's inevitable. It's inevitable that some are going to leave, right? But like everything else, as long as it's profitable, it'll stay up. And considering that uh Classic EQ just released its 32nd expansion, I think we'll be all right.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah, I think so too.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

I'm interested to see where they go. We've got QNARC coming the first of the year, right? You got Velius coming six months after that, and then they're gonna start deviating.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yeah, that that that that that that's the that's the interesting bit for me too, is is okay, we know where EverQuest goes, right? Right, but where does EverQuest legends go and what well like what is their I I would love to see their board, right? I I would love to see their their dream board of like what if we did X, right? Where do we go?

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Right, what can we do this? What can we do? Right, I think a lot of then the question becomes what will daybreak allow them to do? Um well for you, right? Yeah, how much freedom do they have to really monkey with the timeline, so to speak, right? And the feature set. There are some things I would love to see. I do want to see. Um yeah, you're not probably not gonna get one.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Well, yeah, I I I too would the thing about this though is that is that I've I've always said that roadmaps are kind of roadmaps aren't worth the fucking paper, they're pixels they're printed on, though. So right. Like that that's that's my bugbear with roadmaps, is that half the time it's here's our roadmap. Here's what we might do. Maybe half the time a roadmap is here's what we're thinking. Let's be real, unfortunately. Right. Um but yeah, roadmaps they pretty much are here's what we're thinking. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

One one game had good roadmaps. That's one, okay. You got anything else in that statistical pool?

SPEAKER_02 56:29

I don't think so. Did hey Nell, did control have a roadmap? Ouch. Damn. Shots fired. What control was amazing, but I'm just saying. Single player game, apples and oranges. Yeah, whatever, Nell Star.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

No, it's not. Roadmap's a roadmap is a roadmap. Um, most single player games are theirs either. All right. You know, but I actually don't, I would prefer, I just want to know what you're doing. I don't want to know what you're going to do.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Because what you're going to do is subject to change. Everything is subject to change. Most roadmates will tell you that. Everything is subject to change. I just want to know what you're doing. What are you, what do you, what is coming now, so to speak. What is the next thing on the horizon? After that, I just I don't care because it's going to change so much by the time it gets here that it may not even resemble what you originally said it was. I'm looking at you. No, fair sky. Fair. Um, fair. 100% agree with that. Yeah. Um and and I just I think companies would be better off going back to that. Here's what we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Well, look at look at how Windrose did it, right? Look at uh so does Swotor. Swotor does the producer's letters ever since Broadsor just gone.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

This week in Swotor, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Right. I I I I really I really like that that they adopted that style of communication. Oh, really? And I I I wish that, right? I wish that a lot more titles would do that. I really, really do. Um, but but that being said, um I I have I have never been more optimistic about this is the best time to play video games. I have also never been more pessimistic about the state of the industry. And we've talked about that ad nauseum on this show, but it still rings true, and I will say it till I'm blue in the face. Right? Which given the light filter now, you're kind of blue.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

So I mean, you know. It's a light blue, but there is definitely a blue tint.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Oh, why are you pessimistic? Is it because a lifer like me left game for sports? I mean, I'm not saying that the industry is fucked, but um EA says hello.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

EA ruins everything.

unknown 59:05

Ha ha! Ha!

SPEAKER_02 59:07

Trish from the other room, EA ruins everything.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

True. I mean, looking at you, Anthem.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Oh break my heart all over again when I cheeks.

SPEAKER_04 59:18

Anthem. What a what could have been um but yeah, it is what it is. I I think EA as at this point the a EA is gonna go down the road, more of the road of more and more slop. Um yeah, unfortunately, yeah. They're gonna start taking shortcuts.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Um it's possible for them to take more shortcuts.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

They'll find a way. Much like life, EA finds a way.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

I was gonna say EA, much like life, finds a way. Got it.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

But um, yeah. So it sucks. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Oh but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

I think that's gonna do it for this evening. What, what, what?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:16

I'll tell you when we go up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Oh, yeah, sure. All right. But yeah, I think it's gonna do it for tonight, chat. Uh, thank you so much for hanging out. I I say this every week, but or ever every time we do the show, but I I love doing the show. I love spending time with you all. Uh cheeks, cheeks, I the the this show would not be the same without you, so thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

Um that's good because the next one, if we do it on time, we'll probably be without me. Um I was gonna say it'll probably be without you. Um the next one may be delayed.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Yeah. Um I I I I would presume then. Something else I can lay in bed and do it. Oh I I I I would I would presume the next one either will be delayed or I'll have a guest on with me. Um we'll uh we'll see. We'll see how that goes. But uh chat, thanks for hanging out. I love y'all. I mean, look, look, look, if if if if fuse was on this show, it'd be half an hour of him bitching about your mic quality.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

Hey, you can't bitch about my mic quality right now because I'm using the quadcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

All right, chat. We're gonna find somebody to send you all to. Okay, thanks for being here. I love y'all to bits. You guys are incredible. Uh, you know what? Uh Ice Rocker's on. So thanks everyone Ice Rocker Treaty here, exactly as you treat us, guys. And uh, as always, we love y'all. We'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

See you guys.