A Champion's Journey: Dr. Andre Dos Santos on Resilience and Education

In this episode of Building Bridges, a podcast by the Butler University Doctor of Medical Science Bridge Program, co-hosts Dr. Adrian Banning and Dr. Cody Sasek welcome their guest, Dr. Andre Dos Santos. Dr. Dos Santos shares his remarkable story of immigrating from Brazil, his diverse career as an MMA fighter and Hollywood stunt performer, and his journey to becoming a PA educator at the Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science. The conversation highlights his dedication to addressing social justice through education, his extensive commitment to his students, and the impactful difference his work is making in underserved communities. 

00:00 Introduction to Building Bridges Podcast 

00:52 Meet Dr. Andre Dos Santos 

01:59 Dr. Dos Santos' Journey and Inspirations 

03:33 Challenges and Motivations

 09:54 From MMA Fighter to PA Educator 

15:01 Supporting Students in PA Education 

20:09 The Importance of Individualized Attention 

21:28 Journey to Becoming a Clinical Coordinator 

23:48 Challenges and Rewards of the Role 

27:48 Advice for Aspiring Educators 

31:47 Impact of Mentorship and Education 

35:08 Final Reflections and Gratitude

Transcript

A Champion's Journey: Dr. Andre Dos Santos on Resilience and Education

Adrian: Hi there. Welcome to Building Bridges, a podcast brought to you by the Butler University Doctor of Medical Science Bridge Program. We are here to bring people together, to bridge them together. Whether you're a pa, you are in PA education, maybe you're in PA doctoral education, or you yourself are in doctoral training, or you're in medicine in any other type of form or none of those things, we hope that we have.

Content and topics that are going to help people come together and learn from each other. My name is Adrian Banning. I'm a faculty member in the Butler DMS Bridge Program, and in just a few seconds I'll be joined by my co-host program director, Dr. Cody Sheek. We have an amazing guest for you today in Dr.

Andre Dos Santos. He is not only an alumni of the [00:01:00] Butler DMS Bridge Program, he is a faculty member. At the Charles r Drew University of Medicine and Sciences PA program, and he has a story that might be different from the background of another PA student or another doctoral student that you might know.

Spoiler alert involves being a black belt, jujitsu world champion, an MMA fighter, having worked in Hollywood and the story of. Where Dr. Dos Santos has been where he is now and where he's going. Frankly, Cody and I found so inspiring when we got off this call. We were both like, Ugh, we're, we're slugs.

We need to do more. We can do better. Dr. Dos Santos is so inspiring and his work ethic is so incredible. I think you're going to hear when we jump right into a conversation. Just really how far he goes for his students and why. [00:02:00] So we're jumping right in and we're at a place in the conversation where Andre and I have just been chatting and Cody has just joined the call.

So I'm catching Cody up on what we were just talking about before we start to hear from Dr. Dos Santos. I've just welcomed him. Dr. Sheik has just joined us and this first part I think is gonna tell you. Really everything that you need to know as we go forward. Okay.

 there's two things that I really wanna talk about I know that you had a career before PA school that's different, some others.

So I'm definitely gonna talk about that. And this

but before you came on, I was like, oh, okay, so Andrea, are you, where are you in California? Right? he said, yeah. Okay, so I was like, oh, but where in California and Andre, where did you say that you live?

Andre: ECLA. It's close to San Diego. Yeah. In Temecula.

Adrian: close to San Diego. Me knowing really nothing

Andre: Mm-hmm.

Adrian: that it's gigantic, works at Charles Drew in LA and they are, how far apart?[00:03:00] 

Andre: miles.

Adrian: 90 miles. So Cody. Andre was saying that can take sometimes two hours in the morning, but longer after, and sometimes up to three hours. So five days a week he's driving about five hours a day.

Cody: Are you, so are you calculating how much time he's gonna be able to spend listening to this podcast?

Andre: You listen the podcast.

Cody: Yeah,

Adrian: No,

Cody: that's an ex, that is an extraordinary commitment. Uh, that's, uh, uh, that that's incredible.

Adrian: Yeah. So I said, why are you doing that? And that's kind of where we left off because then Andre started to say something that was so important and I think like everyone wants to hear, and like Lucy Kibe, I'm thinking of like everyone at Charles Drew wants to hear, but Andre, you were saying like, okay, so why, why are you doing this?

Andre: Yeah, I, uh, I was saying because like was the opportunity that I had to start in academia, like in a pa, academia, but, uh, definitely it's because of the [00:04:00] school mission. Like because of that institution like itself. being an immigrant, like a first like, uh, of my family, first generation to go to college. Being able, like to graduate, like have a master's degree, a doctorate degree, then become a faculty is, is very important. Not for me, but for my family.

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: And I, I'm from Brazil, so I moved to US like in 2010. I was already old when I moved to US without speaking English. So I gotta like, make sure that I, I learn the language, I do everything in them to be able to go to PA school and, uh. Because I'm not going back to Brazil. I have my family here. I'm married. I have a 5-year-old, like I'm established here. I wanna give back to the community and help people that are assembly with my story.

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: So CDU was the perfect location, like, and uh, the mission of the institution. Like I really believe that we're making the difference, and that's, that's the reason that [00:05:00] I wake up at 4:00 AM every day.

Adrian: Oh

Andre: And, uh, to be there like every day in the morning. But, uh, it is, it's, it's definitely like their mission. Like when we look like the numbers and everything, we, we see we actually making the difference. Like if you compare like PA schools all over the country, I think like, um. African Americans and underserved community represents like less than 10%. Like our school is pretty much like 90% and the PAs that graduate and go working in the service underserved community, like our national wise, I think is believe, I believe it's like less than 5% and your school is close to 70%. So it's it that tells me definitely that, uh. And I'm, I'm the clinical coordinator, so when I send the students to the rotation, most of the times they're alumni and it's in your neighborhood.

Like is is in Compton, like they went to school there stay in the community. So we, we [00:06:00] use those students as preceptors also. So it is just like a circle.

Adrian: Oh, that's amazing.

Cody: That, yeah. Uh, that is, is, uh, so incredibly cool. The, the, uh, and so it sounds like it was a little bit of. The timing and the like. Everything kind of just came together for you and, and being able to, as you finished your doctoral program and, and then found that opportunity. Can you tell a little bit about like that process that, you know, you, you, you've finished your training and what, what, you know, you graduate with your master's degree, you get your certification.

What did you think about, like, what comes next for you? Did you kind of have a vision for that? You'd get to where you are right now?

Andre: Yes, but I didn't think that it happened so fast. But, but that was the, ultimately the goal. Like I, I worked a little with education in Brazil, my background is like I was an athlete. So I trained the kids before I trained adults. So [00:07:00] indirectly is a type of education like I'm leading with like education.

And I also like personal trainer. So like I was involved like in training and. Uh, assisting in, uh, physiology, anatomy, kinesiology classes. So I always love educating people and be part of the people's like growth. when I graduate, because of my age also, like I, I start to work like straight on the UCSD, like in, uh. Uh, uc, San Diego Emergency Medicine, I was working there like wasn't what I expect.

I love emergency medicine, I love orthopedics, But in my thought, like I was looking for life like balance because of my kid, my wife and I had the idea, okay, I'm gonna work three times a week and then I'm gonna have four times a week off.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: a illusion. I was working three times a week and I was [00:08:00] chatting four times a week. So, so it was a lot of work. And then, uh, but I, I always want to get involved in education and that was the reason that I did my, my doctorate because, uh, I had a really good mentor, uh, at a, I, I graduated from USC uh, Dr.

Kevin Lohenry, like he was a very, the director, very good mentor, like. True leader.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: uh, I was talking with him and I remember like today, he's saying that like the PA education is moving to the direction that like it will, will be required a doctorate in the future. Especially if you wanna go to academia, like the, the PAs that have their masters, they want that up, need to during their, their doctorate. So when I crossed with Butler, uh, bridge Program, that was a win-win. I didn't wanna, I definitely didn't want to keep my education after PA school.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: thing I ever did, but I said, I know I got into here, I just [00:09:00] gonna keep pushing a little more and then get the doctorate degree. And, uh, while I was working the, in the er, so it was perfect.

It was like time wise, like the timeline was, it was perfect for me.

Adrian: I laughed when you said Dr. Kevin Lohenry because like literally just yesterday I emailed him 'cause I needed something and I was like, Kevin Lohenry knows how to make this connection. And you're like, yeah, I mean I'm on the other side of the country. And you're right, he's just a great leader. But when you say though, that's the hardest thing you ever did, PA school is what you mean. And you didn't wanna do more school after that, but you already just told us you're driving like five hours a day and you told us about your background and moving to a new country without knowing the language and like, working so hard in emergency medicine and, and doing a doctor in the, in the meantime, like, I feel like your pain level tolerance is higher than the average human, which makes me get to what I've wanted to talk about the whole time. Which is what you did before PA school.

Andre: Yeah, [00:10:00] so I was a professional athlete. I was an MMA fighter in Brazil, and that was the reason that I moved to, to us, like my team from Brazil moved to Huntington Beach in California. I came with my team uh. During the MMA fighting, I met one of the stunts from Hollywood I did a few works as a stunt performer while I was a MMA fighter.

Adrian: And then, but then. What happened? Like, so how, how long did you do that?

Andre: Well, an MA fighter was my entire, my entire life. Like I start on Juujitsu when I was 13 years old, like in Brazil. Like if you want to change your life in sport, like first you go to soccer and if you are horrible in soccer, like myself, you go to jiujitsu, like, or MMA. So

Adrian: Wow.

Andre: uh, I grow up like in a really. poor [00:11:00] neighborhood. Like I, that's why like, I think you're resigning with me like A CTU. Like I, I grew up like in what is called in Brazil favela. Which is like a very, very poor neighborhood with high criminality and is, is dominated by the narcos. So I have a lot of like, of, pretty close friends that died like before even like, uh, uh, getting the old age. uh. It was the opportunity for taking myself out of that place. It was the sport. It was the only thing I had by education during that time. I was, I didn't have money to go to a private school in Brazil, and public school in Brazil is very, very bad. So you don't learn very much. So what I need to do is make sure that I do sports.

I was able to teach in Jujitsu and MMA and start to make some money to be able to go. And do my, uh, my bachelor's. I have bachelor's in physical education because of the sports. So I went to physical education, started to work as a personal trainee, got some money, did my post-graduation in [00:12:00] physiology and kinesiology. And because of the MMA opportunity and the jujitsu opportunity moved to us. And, uh, I, it was the best decision I I ever made because it definitely changed my life. I see lot of people like before seeing like us is the country of the opportunities, and it definitely is. Or today I'm here. I changed not only my life, but also my whole family's life.

My parents is here with me today. They live with me. I was able to take them out of the place that where I grow up. And, uh, if you have, like, if you're a hard worker and you believe in yourself, like, and you put 110%. You, you will succeed it. Like, and that's, that's been the mode of my life the entire time.

Like even when I was, I'm MA fighter. When I was an undergrad, when I was in BA school, when I'm every time in my life, I, I always believe if you don't have a plan B, you make sure the plan went a will work. And that's what have been done my whole life.[00:13:00] 

Adrian: That's incredible. And I think about your five-year-old who has a totally different life and trajectory now because of those decisions.

Andre: Yes, definitely.

Adrian: Also, I think there's something really wrong with PA school. If you can be a professional, MMA fighter and stuntman and then still, PA school is harder than that.

Like, uh, maybe we made it too hard.

Cody: I tell you what, what one of the, the things that I think is so, so impactful, and as you're talking, I was thinking about the just generational difference that. That you have made for your family in the opportunities and, uh, you know, through working hard and obviously being sharp and talented and all of those sorts of things.

But, um, what a, what a, you know, to, to Adrian's point, you know, your child will look at things, you know, and I'm sure we will be very grounded, but just have such a different, different experience and, you know, because of, you know, the work you've done. So that's, that's really cool.[00:14:00] 

Andre: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. My, my job, like as a, as a father, is make sure that I, I keep him grounded, so like, I, well of course we're gonna spoil them as much as we can, but like, remind them like where I came from, like the sacrifice that I do every day and like I see even today, like, 'cause I barely see him. 'cause I live at 4:00 AM. And I came back, like at home around 8, 8 30. He goes to bed at eight 30, so it is a time to get home, give him a kiss, like talk a little bit with him, putting him in bed and then start everything again next day. And in the weekends at least we are together the whole time. But, uh, he knows, he sees my sacrifice, he sees that I wake up early in the morning.

He has been at CDU before and he knows like the work that we're doing, like indirectly, definitely.

Adrian: Yeah.

Cody: so hearing about your story and just thinking about the remarkable success that you've had, and now you're, you're a part of that on a larger scale, working at Charles Drew, working with students who might not have had [00:15:00] access.

Um, otherwise. Do you have any, any thoughts about how, like, thinking about the profession as a whole and what we do in PA education, how we can support those students who might not have a typical path to, to PA education?

Andre: Yeah, I think like is is a very good question. Like in my opinion, it starts as like in the foundation of the university, and it starts in your admission process. that, those are two things that are at CU, like they're very strong on, like we have students that, uh, apply and they're the perfect student la far 0.0 GPA. when we have like the interview, we don't see the sense of social justice, cultural competence on those students. Like we see that he's there and, and I don't think there's nothing wrong with that. Like if you, everybody's different. Like, so we have very strong like candidates that came and then they, they have like a 4.0 GPA, like I said, but like they want to go to dermatology or plastic surgery and they want to make money.

I. [00:16:00] I completely understand, like everybody's different. the other hand, we have a student that don't have a perfect GPA, got some like low grades during his, uh, uh, bachelor's and is not a perfect student, but he has a huge and strong sense like of a cultural competence and social justice. So I'm, we at CU we look more for this student because we know in the end of the day, this student, he he'll like to go and he want to go and serve the underserved, which is our mission. So during the entire like, uh, uh, process of selecting or, or students or new students, we are always looking for those. And being said, we already know. uh, we, and we prepare for that, that we can have some hiccups during the PA program. So based in the, the fast pace of the PA program and, and the how hard the materials are to [00:17:00] absorb, like, so we prepare and you make sure that those students are gonna have support. So we have a student support team, so we have a true full-time faculties in at CU that is just to help the students that are struggling academically. So they review the whole curriculum with the students they sent with. With them, like make like the schedule for those students, like what time you're gonna study, which topic, including the weekends. So stay after hours. Like I have faculties that stay there, like it's 9:10 PM like. Reviewing things with the students like, so I think the, the team itself also helps because is everybody with the same concept, everybody has the same mind. We have very similar backgrounds even that we are like all over the country or all over the world.

We have. Faculty that's from Taiwan. We have faculty that is from Jamaica, myself, so faculty from everywhere, And what we're looking for is the same. So we have [00:18:00] like a common sense what, what we expect from the students or what we want.

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: that helps a lot.

Adrian: Do you, um, have support built in? I mean, you just must, it's not just someone who has like too much information, right? So many times you see someone struggling and you know their capacity to do well academically. Is

Andre: Mm-hmm.

Adrian: they have to drive really far or they have family responsibilities or they're dealing with something emotional.

Maybe they don't have like housing or food security. How do you deal with those types of like holistic supports? Yeah.

Andre: It happens a lot, like specifically like we have students that have kids, we have students that are, are, uh. like going like un uns sheltering, unfortunately. So like, we have like a lot of, we trying to give as much, uh, support as we can. Like in the university we have, uh, the Shaw that provides like mental health, like support for the students.

We [00:19:00] put them in connection with like a transportation if they need like any access. The program itself, we, we separate like a Dr. Ki. Amazing that part. Like she, she really take care of the students like their own, her own kids. And, uh, she put aside like some mon money from the, the, uh, program to make sure if the student have like any incident like, uh, happening.

I, I saw with my eyes the student that her car broke and she couldn't go to the, her, her rotations and Dr. Kipp help that student to make sure that she finish her education.

Adrian: yeah. Like an

Andre: is

Adrian: slush fund.

Andre: exactly, exactly.

Adrian: Brilliant.

Andre: yeah, so it is, it is the whole program itself and the school itself is built to, to help those students and we on purpose, select those students. Like what, what I always tell like, uh, or the, the PA candidates, like doing your interviews for admissions is that I, I have no doubt. If they got called [00:20:00] for the interview with us, with the faculty, like we normally we, this year we had 4,000 applicants and uh, our class cohort is 30 students. So we're a small cohort. That's one of the reasons that we can do what we do it. I don't know if you're gonna be possible if for 60, a hundred students, because we really do individualize. We know each single student, we go, every faculty have time with every single student. So it's very, very one-on-one. Treatment with our students.

And I tell the candidates when they come, like from this 4,000 that applied, we select like like one hundred, a hundred fifty four interviews and we select 30. So during the interviews, I tell them, I say like, I have no doubt that you, you will eventually become a pa. Like, if you're not in our program, in another program, I can tell your GPA is amazing.

You have a really good professionalism. You present yourself good. I just wanna make sure that I got the right 30 that I'm looking for, because that's the right 30 I know is gonna make the [00:21:00] difference, especially in our community.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: have no doubt that you'll become a PA in another program or in our program, or in another program, but I, I must have the right 30 because otherwise I'm taking place from a student that.

It probably will not be accepted by another program.

Adrian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. those 30 have to interact with each other in the right way too. The right

Andre: Yes.

Adrian: each other. Yeah.

Andre: Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Cody: And so you've been, you've been in your role for how long now?

Andre: Is being, if, if it feels like forever, but it is being like a, and three month. Yeah, a little over one year.

Cody: So I, I imagine you've, you've already had many experiences that kind of fill your cup, but if you could think of like what's, is there one experience that like, boy, this is the right, this is where I need to be doing what I need to be doing. Like kind like a really a affirming sort of [00:22:00] moment in your time in PA education that sticks out to you.

Andre: I think it, it had so many, because like, uh, I, when I, I start like just a, a little like, um, timeline, like what happened? So when I was in the er, uh, I was applying for, for jobs, like to try to get my feet wet and get in the. academia, and then I received that, uh, Dr. K, like a invitation, like to, to, to have the meeting with her, like, and do an interview. I start as a part-time because in my head, that was going to build more clinical and at the er and then the other days that I'm not working, gonna do academia, I, I think like literally after two weeks that I was a part-time, Dr. Ki offered me like a full-time job. So I was like, oh, I didn't expand that fast.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: And then I think three weeks later she offered me the clinical coordinator position. So it was like, [00:23:00] okay, like. It was a lot at one. I, I will confess, I had no clue where I was getting myself as a clinical coordinator, because it's a completely different beast a faculty. I thought I was going there, teach my classes and go home.

Nope, like, like developing sites, maintenance of sites, like a connection and network with preceptors. you, uh, like is, is a completely different beast. So, and, and during that time, also helping in didactic year. So I'm the clinical coordinator. I'm in charge of the clinical year, but I have roles in the didactic year also. So it, I I, I'll tell everybody, like being a clinical coordinator is a full-time and a half job. It's not just a full-time job.

Cody: Yeah.

Andre: I, it, it was amazing because he exposed me to the whole PA program, which it would take me years to get a, like a deep understanding of, because I was involved in the clinical year, I was [00:24:00] involved in did, I was involved with admissions.

So while seeing the whole picture, especially because our program is small. So I was able to directly work in every single section of the PA program. And that's like one of the things that Dr. Ki like try to do in our program is making sure that you get exposed to everything in case someone like get hurt or sick.

Like they're not the only person that know that job. So we can cross, cross like jobs.

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: yeah, it was a lot. It's still a lot, but like, uh, I think like he gave me like a, a, a 360 vision of the whole scenario of being, being the pa, like academia

Cody: Yeah, I distinctly remember very early on and, and this was probably the first, I don't know, two years that. There was so much more that happened behind the curtain that I was, no, I did, was not aware of as a student.

Adrian: Yeah.

Cody: Um, and you know, for me that was one of the things which made it really interesting that there's so much tremendous variety and that you might [00:25:00] be engaged in giving a lecture one morning and then that then you're doing some small group work, then you're doing some scholarship, you're doing some administrative work.

And so, uh, yeah, that I, you know, being a little past a year now for you. Uh, I, I imagine you're, you're feeling like the learning curve is, is lowering a little bit, but there's always something else to learn, for sure. I don't know if that's been your experience.

Andre: definitely.

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: Well, I'll tell you like, uh, the first like, um, alumni, uh, meeting that we got together at the USC. When I came back, I was already a clinical coordinator. I, I went back to Ms. Maldonado, which was one of my faculties, give a big hug to her and said, thank you. Now I understand

Adrian: Mm-hmm.

Andre: are like holding and protect us and shield us. So we don't know what's happening behind all the problems. So we can fully focus in, in education and you guys are doing a lot behind that. We don't see, and I can tell by myself a lot of times we don't appreciate because [00:26:00] we don't know what's happening. So my approach with my students in the clinical year, like I'm just finished yesterday, uh, clinical orientation for the students that are going to clinical. I thought, I'm not gonna shield you. I'm gonna show the whole thing. You're gonna see the beast by yourself. So, uh, I got the onboarding process. We got the, like how we developed sites, how we do site maintenance and everything that happens behind the scenes and show them, like, this is the whole thing that happened behind the scenes.

So they have an idea. Because I say like, when you're going to a rotation, you gotta make sure that like, you're not like only doing your rotation, but you're standing like in a lot of peoples that came behind you shoulders. So those peoples develop like that, that site for you, those people have been there and it only takes one student to do something bad to burn the whole bridge.

Adrian: That's

Andre: So we, we want you to know before you do anything, think about this whole thing that we did, how long it takes to develop a site and everything before you do anything [00:27:00] wrong.

Cody: Yeah,

Andre: they appreciate, yeah.

Cody: yeah. The As, as a, as a former clinical coordinator myself, I definitely appreciate, but it is a really unique opportunity that, you know, nothing is more impactful in students' learning than, than the patients that, uh, get to be part of their learning process. And the preceptors who. Who shepherd them through that.

And it's really, uh, yeah, there can be a lot of, uh, bumps in the road, but it's so clearly very, I important work that, uh, that you're doing.

Andre: Thank you. Yeah, it is a lot of work. I, I have a big appreciation for our clinical coordinators because I know

Cody: Yeah.

Andre: happened. Like you got a call like at 2:00 AM like someone got a needle stick, and then you will just like, what we're doing now.

Cody: Yeah. And do so, you know, uh, like yourself, there may be a lot of folks who are, um, early in their careers and thinking that like. I think I might have an interest in this education [00:28:00] thing. Is there any advice that you'd have for them about like, just, you know, either thinking about the timing of things or, or what's the right opportunity or just any reflections you've had that that might be valuable for, you know, those folks who are, are thinking about moving into PA education.

Andre: I think like you, you gonna know the call, like the education will call you. Like when it's the time, like you, you gotta go to education for the right reason. And I'll say that because like I had no clue before, like how much, uh, faculty makes, how much like you make in clinical and you. You, you make less in the education that you make in clinical, you can make a lot of more money in clinical than in education.

And that's like all over the board. So that tells me like knowing that now that you gotta go for the right reason. Because if you don't have your heart there, like you gonna go to clinical and make more money. But if you believe in our job, you believe you're making the difference. You [00:29:00] believe that we're doing is. I'm meaningful. Like you, you, you gonna keep your career for a long time and, uh, I I, if you don't have a passion for that, I definitely, I don't think that's the right place for you because if you're thinking about money, about life balance, like I said, like I thought you have more life balance than you are. I don't, I have less, but I'll tell you like I have a lot more passion for what I do it than what I had in the ER. Not that I don't like the ER, I love the ER. But like I, I see that what I'm doing is touching a lot of my life. So when in the, uh, I was in the er, I was changing like 10 to 15 people's life a day.

Adrian: Yeah.

Andre: I'm in academia, I'm changing one person that is gonna change like thousands of people over their careers.

Adrian: Right.

Andre: every cohort, so like I, I'm multiplying and I'm amplifying like how many lives I'm touching and I'm making the difference. Okay.

Adrian: Yeah, I think that's easy to forget sometimes, [00:30:00] um,

Andre: Mm-hmm.

Adrian: in academia that the influence, like in kind of the spiderweb going out is enormous. You know that one thing that you say negative that someone will remember. You know, your student then will member or some, I dunno, I have students say all the time, remember when you told me fill in the blank?

And I'm like, oh gosh, no. But you've remembered that for 15 years. Like, yeah, and I think that's a really good point, that there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that students have no idea how hard it is and that you're doing it and making less money. And, um, but also it's wildly rewarding if it's the right fit for you.

Andre: Exactly. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. And even like, uh, thing that, uh, I learned and I need to digest and see, like, you, you never gonna be like you, you're never gonna pleasure a hundred percent of the people. So you are always gonna have one student. For some reason, they gonna give you a bad review. you have like other, the whole class that give you a really good review, but it will [00:31:00] stick with the bad one. Like it sticks on you like, oh my God, I'm that bad. Am I like the imposter syndrome? Am in the right place. Is this where I should be? So just a reminder, like if you are in early academia, I, I talk with my students a lot and, uh. Don't, don't let you down yourself because of one bad review. You don't know that person may be in a bad day that day. You don't know what happened with their life. Just the moment of the just she or he was, uh, typing the review. They're like the keyboard warriors. Like, so,

Adrian: Right.

Andre: they're gonna put everything on you.

You were the reason of their failure or the reason of that they missed that exam. But, uh, yeah, like, uh, just, just believe in yourself and believe that what you're doing is meaningful. Yeah.

Cody: One, one thing I think, and, and I think I we're approaching the end of our time, but one thing that's certainly notable, uh, is that, uh, coming up, I think, uh, at the, at the first of the year, uh, you'll have the opportunity to [00:32:00] participate in the Harvard Macy program for health professions, educators, uh.

Andre: you.

Cody: Yeah, so, uh, the PA Education Association sponsors one, one member every year to attend the program, which is, uh, is it two sessions that are in Boston on, on Harvard's, uh, campus.

Andre: Two sessions. Yes.

Cody: And, um, uh, so it's, it's, it's quite an honor also. What a great,

Andre: weeks is coming.

Cody: okay. Well, what a, what a, what a great launching pad for, for your ability to continue to make a difference, as it sounds like you are.

Andre: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, like the, my, my project title, like, because of CDU, like I, I chose to do about like adapting, uh, PA programs for diverse learning needs. Supporting like a low social economic, uh, students and immigrants and learning disabled students. So it is pretty much getting what we do at CU and putting data on that and see like how much, 'cause we have students that struggle like in the beginning, and then they do like, uh, student [00:33:00] success, like help.

Like we have one-on-one. And then you see like their scores start to improve until they like actually kicking in and go by theirselves and they don't need help anymore. that, that's the project that I wanna do about, like, tell, like I know like a lot of other PA programs when they start like, uh. Failing exams or failing remediations, like is, is no, is no way back because of how fast is the pace, like they're gonna get dismissed. But, uh, at CU like we, we, we tell the student, like in their, uh, short white coat ceremony, which is like they do normally, some schools are after the first year in our schools, in the first day of class, and then we tell them like, our compromise with you is that we're gonna do everything that you can and you can't to make sure that you're gonna graduate. But you gotta do your part. But if you need to stay here until midnight, if to come here in the weekend to help you, we are gonna do it. If you, if we see that you have on you that you wanna make the [00:34:00] change and you wanna improve, we, we are here for you.

Adrian: yeah. It almost makes me wanna go back to PA school.

Andre: don't do it.

Cody: I, you'd have to imagine the second time around it gets easier. Right. Also, I will say my, my, my 40-year-old brain is probably not firing quite as quickly as, uh, as it was at, uh, at, at, at a younger point in my life. But, uh, that's, that's, uh, that's great.

Adrian: No, I think it's like one of those things where you jump in and you can prepare all you want, but you really don't know what it is. But by that time it's too late and you gotta just keep swimming.

Andre: Mm-hmm.

Cody: Which is, I think, which is exactly why the, the, the importance of mentorship is, is, you know, is so key. And, you know, Andre, you, you, you know, you mentioned the.

Adrian: I.

Cody: The impact that mentors have had on you, and I'm sure you're, you know, knowing your program and strong program leadership that continues to make a difference for you and, and then, you know, it impacts your ability to go make a difference for others too.

[00:35:00] And so that, that, that's really, you know, the opportunity to pay that forward is, is pretty cool. And it was great to hear more about your, your story today.

Andre: Thank

Cody: thanks. So thanks so much for being here. We really enjoyed the chance to, to chat with you and learn a little bit more about your journey. Really inspiring.

It was, it was, uh, it was, it was fantastic to hear and, and, uh, you know, we can get, we, it's so easy to get, get just into the rut of, you know, one meeting after another, you know, day after day that really zoom the opportunity to zoom out. Just reflect on, on what it is that the, the awesome opportunities that we have in education to make a difference for folks and their families is, is really pretty cool.

So thank you for offering a touch point for that today.

Andre: No.

Cody: Uh, we hope to connect with you again soon. Yeah, you bet.

for having me. And, uh, again, like thank, thank you Dr. Sasek, like for your education, because you also taught me my education, like during the PA program, the, the, the DMS program. And I, I, I still remember seeing your, your little [00:36:00] videos, like give me feedback, like what I can improve, like, and, and thank you, thank you for being part of my life and my education.

Definitely.

Yeah, you bet. That's so cool. That's so cool.

Adrian: Andre, I'm really inspired. I was thinking as you were talking, like I'm first gen two, my grandfathers were coal miners, right? Like, I know that I worked hard to get here, but still now I have a really nice cushy life and I get like whiny sometimes. Like, well, I didn't like this thing that happened.

And then like, hearing your story again, it reminded me of a time when I. into clinic in primary care and one of my veterans was telling me about his experience, like living in the war in Europe and then

Andre: Mm-hmm.

Adrian: States and then becoming age where he could go back and fight in the war. And like, my problems just seemed ridiculous then, you know? And I was like, oh, right. There are people out here doing real things. And I was thinking back to his story as I was hearing yours, like, I'm re-inspired again. um, you're, you're just such an inspiration. I feel less willing to whine

Andre: No, but thank you. [00:37:00] Like, but myself, I need to remind myself every day, like when I woke up at the 4:00 AM like, trust me, I don't wanna wake up 4:00 AM to go to work. But when I, I, I wake up and I say like, okay, I, I know why I am waking up at 4:00 AM and go where I going. Like it just give you the, the feel that you need, like to keep pushing and like keep making the difference.

Adrian: Right. You have purpose,

Andre: Exactly.

Adrian: but how can we talk to your. Bosses about getting you like a work from home day, like do you need any,

Andre: So in,

Adrian: we make some phone calls here?

Andre: in theory, I have a clinical day, which supposed to be once a week for me to do clinical, but since when I started, because, uh, the I, I'm changing a lot of things in the clinical year, making more efficient, like the way that it was before, it got a lot better than before. uh, I need, I'm doing a lot of cleaning it up, like to be able to, okay, now I can go back to clinical and have this day to do clinical.

I want to do it and I need to, to do [00:38:00] it because I need more clinical experience. But, uh, I, I think it was a necessary time to put everything in place. Like to be able to say, okay, now this day I can take it off. I don't need to be on my phone and my emails all day because I know everything is taken. But, uh, that, that's the only reason. But interior supposed to have one day or. Uh, to do clinical, but I, I just chose myself to go there to make sure that everything is done and I have time when everything is in place, I will go back and do my one day.

Adrian: I am gonna hold you to that. I'm gonna check back in with you in like a year. 

Cody: that is the end of our time, but best of luck to you as you. I'm have no doubt as you continue to make a difference.

Andre: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.​