PA Education and Leadership: Dr. Pam Vayda

In this episode of Building Bridges from Butler University’s Doctor of Medical Science Bridge Program, hosts Adrian Banning and Cody Sasek speak with PA educator Pam Vayda, interim program director at Mississippi State University. Pam shares her path from prior work in education (including teaching secondary school and college labs) to joining MSU’s inaugural PA cohort (graduating 2023), practicing in urgent care, earning her doctorate through Butler, and quickly transitioning into PA faculty roles. She discusses seeing PA programs from both student and faculty perspectives, the complexity of running a program, and the major work involved in achieving 10-year accreditation. Pam highlights how doctoral training and mentorship support curriculum alignment, evidence-based medicine, and faculty development, and she describes outreach efforts to introduce Mississippi students to the PA profession.

Transcript

Speaker 0:05

Hi there, and welcome to Building Bridges. This is a podcast from the Butler University, doctor of Medical Science Bridge Program. I'm Adrian Banning, and I'm here with Cody Sasek, and we are so glad that you are here because this podcast is all about connection, bringing together voices from across healthcare, education, leadership, and beyond. So whether you're a practicing pa, a student, an educator, or. Someone passionate about any of those things anywhere where healthcare is headed. This is the space for you. Today we are joined by PA educator, Pam Vayda, and she has a really interesting story that we can't wait for you to hear.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 0:45

So, uh, Pam, welcome. Uh, you know, as we talked about, uh, this is a new venture for us. Uh,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 0:52

Yeah, we don't know what we're doing.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 0:53

no. And, you know, how many, how many episodes will it take Before we're like, yeah, we got it. We know what we're doing.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 0:59

Well, I don't know.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 1:00

I don't know, but I'm.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 1:01

our charm that we're like.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 1:03

Yeah, I'm gonna take the overs on, uh, on, on, on that. So, uh, but we appreciate your, your time and I'm, I'm confident, confident you're busy. So we're looking forward to the chance to, uh, chance to chat,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 1:17

Yeah.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 1:18

uh, you, you know us, but maybe, uh, you can introduce yourself and just a little bit about your background, where you're from, what you're doing now, and we'll start there.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 1:29

sure. I'm Pam Beta and I am currently the interim program director at Mississippi State University. So I actually was part of our inaugural class that graduated in 2023 and then. Went on through the Butler University program to, to obtain my doctorate and started working in urgent care and, uh, picked up an anatomy class part-time and then that turned into a full-time position, uh, very quickly. And then, um, and then here we are. I was in higher education previous to going to PA school, so this seemed like a very easy fit for me to come back to. Higher education.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 2:06

You were in the inaugural class of the DMS Bridge program.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 2:10

No, the hour class of the MSU Mississippi State University PA

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 2:14

Mm-hmm. So you've been there from the beginning.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 2:16

Hmm, yes. So I get, I've seen it from both angles, you know, from, as a faculty member now, but as a student as well. So, you know, things that I'm like, oh yeah, that was here, or that was, uh, something that we need to work on, um, as a student, you know, I mean,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 2:33

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 2:33

like, uh, supplies for clinical skills, you know, I mean, how many, how many sutures do you have? I don't know. Do I need to order more? Um, so those kind of things.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 2:42

Yeah, there's so many of those things that as a student, you, you, you don't kind of see it's a little, you know, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. And then all of a sudden it turns out that PA programs are these really complex sorts of things that, uh, have a lot of, a lot of things going on, a lot of stuff beyond just kind of standing at the front of the front of the classroom lecturing.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 3:04

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 3:05

That's right.

Speaker 3:06

Now before we get too far in for the three of us in video podcast land, are you all able to see my video? I.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 3:13

Yeah. I can see you're, yeah. You,

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 3:15

Oh, okay. Okay. Well that's perfect then, because I, I, every once in a while, I don't know if this is the case for you, but I'll be on video and I'll catch my, I'll like catch my video and then I'll like. Not wanna look weird. And so it's just best, it's just best if I just, I can just focus on the two of you, like a normal conversation as opposed to like wondering what sort of facial contortions I'm, uh,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 3:39

Do

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 3:39

I'm, I'm making at the moment.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 3:41

hide your

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 3:41

yeah. Oh, I don't know. I, no, I don't, but I should because I feel like it would be just much less distracting, but.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 3:50

Pam, do you hide your video during meetings?

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 3:52

I don't, um, I, and I, but I usually, my little portion is I can't see it unless I go look for it. You know what I'm saying? So I have to, I have to be intentional

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:02

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:02

it, but I usually don't, I don't intentionally do

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:05

Oh,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:06

It's

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 4:06

Yeah.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:07

my, go ahead.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:07

do we have a, a mirror in our dining room? And so whoever sits at, at one end of the table can see themselves. And so I have teenage daughters. Um, and

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:16

Oh,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:16

they're telling a story, sometimes they're looking at themselves telling a story, and

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:20

Uhhuh.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:21

oh, yeah, yeah, I have real people here. So then they tell us the story. I feel like the same thing happens on Zoom calls when Well, thanks.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:28

Uhhuh.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 4:29

Uh, that's so funny.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:30

I stare at myself like a parakeet. Like I'm just like,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 4:33

Do you really?

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 4:34

like talking to my, and I don't know if it's good or I don't know if it's anything except, you know, everyone else. Every day I get a day older and I'm like, oh, look at that. And for a while I touched up. My appearance, like in Zoom, you know, you can, you can like smooth out your appearance, but then real life was harder. I'd be like, oh, I looked amazing on Zoom today. What is going on here? Like, like touching the mirror, like how do I smooth this?

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 5:03

Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 5:04

So I've taken that off so that I can live more in reality, but I still chat at myself like a parakeet. Um, anytime I don't, it just is,

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 5:12

Yeah, one of I,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 5:13

Go

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 5:13

I, I think one of the most painful things is having to, you know, in, in the work that Adrian and I do, uh, we're creating lots of, you know, lots of video content for, you know, instruction and needing to go back for, you know, quality assurance and make sure that it's, it's going back and watching. Um. About every 10th video. I think I surprise myself where I, where I watch and like, oh, that was, that was good. Nailed it. And but the problem is that's 10% and the other 90% is like, oh, I do not like watching myself. But I imagine that's, that's, that's probably a common, common, uh, occurrence.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 5:49

Well, we record our lectures and sometimes I'm like, oh,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 5:51

You do too.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 5:52

Did I say that? And then I go back and watch it and go, oh, I really hope no one else is watching this. Ah hmm. This is bad. You know, like, Hmm, I'm sorry.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 6:02

one else except the students that you're hoping. Watch it.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 6:04

Yeah. Right. Fingers, fingers crossed. You know, and maybe, maybe the next generation it won't be a problem 'cause they're so used to creating content and um,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 6:13

Sarah.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 6:13

maybe, you know, I'm just a, just a Luddite. But, um, yeah, that is,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 6:19

the, the other century. So we're used to some,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 6:21

Right.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 6:22

more polishing, not

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 6:23

yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 6:23

reality TV show, you know?

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 6:25

I love it. We, you know, as, as someone born in the 19 hundreds. Um,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 6:29

Exactly.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 6:29

know.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 6:30

you know, it's like, what, what is going on? Uh, we were, we, we were, uh, I was, I was, uh, working in the yard the other day and we had a, a student and we were talking about somehow as these things will come up, uh, Y 2K, uh, that whole thing about, you know, were the computers just going to all explode at the same time, or whatever that was going to be. And I wasn't that old at that point, but old enough to appreciate what was going on. Uh, the student kind of looked, had a kinda confused look on her face, and it occurred to me like, oh, and it turned out she was born in 2001. So, you know,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 7:04

She missed the whole thing.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 7:06

you know, we're, we're all getting older, but the students, uh, seemed to not be so.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 7:12

right. That's a realization that I was like, what is going on here? Like I used to be the same age as them, and now. They just stay the same age, but I don't, and that's troubling. I kind of

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 7:25

Y

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 7:26

2K had gone down the way that the pessimists thought that it would.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 7:30

just kind of a, just a reset.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 7:33

Yeah.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 7:34

yeah. You know, when, when I, when I started in PA education, I was, I was 29 years old it was a, a short timeframe. You know, at that point there were portions of that class who were older than I was. And so, uh, I just think about, you know, Pam, as you've lived that transition into PA education, having that, having, having some lived experience and background on in higher education had to, I would imagine make that a little, a little, a little smoother, but I'm sure, um.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 8:06

Well, it was inter, it was entertaining because we had a lot of, um, brand new faculty, brand new program, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of brand new faculty. So people transitioned from clinical into academic work, um, and they didn't know, like we use Canvas as our, um, as our platform. And so. I had actually taught in the building that the pa, PA program started in, I mean, literally one of our classrooms, I had taught kinesiology classes in there. And so, um, so I would be like, um, do you need help with Canvas? Do, do you understand? Like, you know, some of the functions? And they're like, we hate to ask you. And I was like, it's fine. Like, I, I get it, you know, kind of, and so I can show you this and did you know it can do this? And they're like, what? You

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 8:45

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 8:45

because they're coming from a clinical setting. They, and they had no, you know, we started in January, so there wasn't like the normal faculty training that occurs in August where everybody gets all the, all the good stuff. It was like, Nope, here you go. Go. Um, and so there are lots of, uh, learning curves. I was older, so I was older than most of my cohort. So, um, they were kinda like, um, mama Pam, can you help us with this? You know, for both,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 9:14

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 9:14

cohort some of

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 9:16

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 9:17

Anyway,

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 9:18

I, I.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 9:18

of it,

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 9:19

I imagine because of that and, and, and knowing you a little bit, I imagine you had kind of a, a leveling, calming presence for, uh, for the class and, and I can remember a few of my classmates who had that same sort of, it was, that was a real gift to, you know, as, as, uh, as PA students, sometimes we can get, we could get a little, uh, a little wound tight.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 9:37

No.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 9:37

Uh, and so yeah, who knew, who knew that, that, that PA students were, were type A and driven, but, uh, that, that, that leveling sort of presence was really. Definitely really, really valuable. What do, what do you think? So, so you have been in, um, in your role in the p uh, in the PA program, um, um, uh, at Mississippi State in, for how long? How long have you been in your, in, uh, with the program now?

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 10:06

So I've been, um, with them as faculty since January of 24. Um, I started and, and I just picked up an anatomy class. That's what I taught previously. Uh, and that just, and it, it really morphed into a full-time position very easily, very quickly, uh, by March actually.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 10:22

Mm-hmm.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 10:22

Okay. Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 10:23

then, uh. there, uh, uh, just, just as faculty getting my feet wet. And then that morphed into academic coordinator and also worked on accreditation, uh, as an accreditation author in the fall. So we just received full accreditation for 10 years. We're

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 10:40

Oh my gosh. Congratulations.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 10:42

Uh, and so then, uh, the, our program director had been here for several years and she stepped away and I was the only one that had three years of higher education experience. So,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 10:54

Mm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 10:55

congratulations. But, um, I'm, you know, so I've, uh, had kind of a speed train. Introduction into PA education, but it's, it's been really good. I mean, coupled with what I had done previously, you know, it's, it's been, it's been really good. And, and I obviously have a, a vested interest in the program as my alma mater. And, um, and this is where I live. I wanted to do well. Um, so it's been, it's been an interesting ride

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 11:23

Yeah, I imagine so.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 11:25

um, for three weeks, interim program director.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 11:28

Oh my gosh.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 11:29

well then we definitely appreciate you, you finding some time for us. Uh, and for those, those listening who might not be as familiar with the accreditation process, getting that, that continuing accreditation is a. Big old process

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 11:42

sure.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 11:43

including three site visits, pages and pages, volumes you might say, of writing and documentation and supporting efforts, program, self-study, all those sorts of things. And one of those requirements is, is for the program director to have a certain level of experience, which, uh, which is, is kinda what Pam had referenced in that, that three years. So it is,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 12:04

So.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 12:04

is a big effort both. Developing the application and then, and then having a, a two day site visit where, uh, where people are combing good colleagues, but, but looking through your, uh, your documentation and all the sorts of things, asking lots of questions and finding out more about the program. So it really is, um, it really is a big process, which means that it's a really nice one to be on the other side of and having, having attained that continuing accreditation. So congratulations on that. That's, that's awesome. That's

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 12:34

It

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 12:34

it. It's.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 12:35

of why we do what we do. You know, I mean, there's oftentimes you're going, what, why are we doing this? You

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 12:40

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 12:40

realize that it's, it's part of, it's part of the accreditation, it's part of the standards and that kind of thing. So it was, it was very eye-opening, um,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 12:49

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 12:50

uh, to be under that, uh, umbrella. But it was very, very helpful for me in learning that.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 12:56

Yeah, it gives you the perspective too, that you were missing as a student when you were like, oh, okay, I get why they were being so weird about that thing. 'cause this is part of the standard. Pam, you've mentioned you had experience in higher ed beforehand. Can you, um, walk me through kind of like the timeline, start, start at birth, and then just bring us up to where, where you are now?

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 13:16

She's born wearing a mortarboard.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 13:19

I'd like a timeline, please. Um, no, kind of just how, how did you, was that before PA school? When did PA school come into it? What about the doctoral degree? Can you just kind of Yeah. Run it down for me.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 13:32

Um, so as you all know, Mississippi was the last state to license pa, so that was a relative new career.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 13:38

I don't think I did know that

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 13:40

25

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 13:41

Ohio.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 13:42

well, it's, it's Mississippi

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 13:43

Congratulations.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 13:44

you very much. So it's, it's very, it is relatively new. Um, we do a lot of patient education about what a who a who a PA is, what a PA does, all the stuff, all the time. Um, so. Really and truly in college, I, I thought medical and,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 13:59

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 13:59

I didn't really know a lot of the options. My, um, my major professor had mentioned PA and I just, I didn't know anyone to go and talk with, to have any conversations about. And so I thought, well, we'll see. And so I put that on the back burner, um, and started applying to medical school because I thought that was the obvious next step, um, after graduation. Decided to stay home with my children for a little bit and, um, take some time just to invest in family and then return back to the classroom. And, uh, as part-time, um, in St. Louis and organic chemistry labs and then, um, in high school in Texas. And then when I got back to Mississippi, um, I was at the community college here as well as, um, Mississippi State University. So. Have seen education from a several different levels. Um, but really and truly, uh, probably about or 15 years ago, I knew PA was probably my direction that I wanted to

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 14:59

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 15:00

Um, just a matter of how to get there and when to get there, when it was appropriate for my family and for our life circumstances. Um, so. In 2018, um, I finished a master's so that I could teach in higher education. Um, and I knew that I wasn't finished at that point. I knew I was gonna PA school, I just didn't know where. And started really looking into that, um, and trying to decide do we move again? You know, what do we do? And Mississippi State was developing a PA program. Um, and so. I was watching that very closely, uh, as, uh, a graduate of Mississippi State with my master's already. Um, so when this program became available, I, I was, um, applying and wanting to be part of the first, first cohort and so grad went through, uh, PA school, 21 to 23, graduated and started practicing, and then started my doctorate in the fall of 23. Came back on board as part-time faculty in 24, continuing to work on my doctorate, um, through Butler. And then, um, graduated with my doctorate in 24 and as a full-time faculty member at that point. So, and I knew that I would return to education even while I was in PA school. I knew that I would return to PA education eventually. Um, I didn't anticipate it so soon, but I'm very, very thankful for the opportunity to be part of this faculty.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 16:22

Mm-hmm. So when you were talking about the different places and the different school systems, you meant like you as an educator, you, so you were a high school teacher.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 16:31

Yes.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 16:32

Holy cow.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 16:34

So I've taught, um, just right out of college. I taught, um, seventh through 12th grade,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 16:39

Oh, no.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 16:42

uh, and then, uh, returned back. And so it also did, um. Some, uh, the organic chemistry labs at, um, Missouri Baptist University and then, um, high school anatomy and physiology and biology, all the stuff so.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 16:55

Mm-hmm. Mm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 16:56

and then that's where like I really started noticing, you know, students don't understand all of the different career options that are available. And so

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 17:05

Right.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 17:06

drive here, um, at Mississippi State, as has been to invite students, high school students on

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 17:12

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 17:13

so we, we've developed some curriculum. Um, we have the anti watch tables here. We have a whole lab of anti watch tables, so we want to immerse them in that technology and then as well. Immerse them in some experiences with our students. And so our students practice neuro exams on, they teach 'em how to, you know, kind of the basics of how to read a chest x-ray. And so they get to know our students and hopefully visualize themselves. And that could be me. You know, as I mentioned, Mississippi is one of, was the last, uh, state to license pa, so they, a, a lot of our students have. A lot of experience with nurse practitioners, doctors, nurses, but not as much experience with pa. So, you know, as they're learning and going, wow, that, that sounds like something I would like to do,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 17:58

Right.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 17:58

also see someone who's closer to their age and go, that could be

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 18:02

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 18:02

did you get here? So those conversations happen organically, um, when they're in, in that, those situations when the high schoolers on campus.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 18:12

Amazing.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 18:13

And when you, so in that timeline, you also mentioned, you know, you've, you've pursued and earned your, your doctorate and clearly in, like in PA education and practice space. That question is a, is a big one.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 18:26

Sure.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 18:26

Kind of seeing now on the other side of, of things in your PA education role. What are your thoughts or your experiences about how that. How that fits in that level of education. For PAs, just maybe kind of some of your thoughts on the space and how, maybe how you've, you've found it to be, um, useful if you have in, uh, in, in your specific role in, in, uh, in higher ed.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 18:51

Sure. Uh. When we think about education, in my opinion, I think oftentimes, um, education opens doors that would otherwise not be open to, you know, and so I think that knew even when I was in the middle of school that this is a master's program, but I, I planned to, um, pursue a doctorate afterwards. Uh, and for me it just made sense, especially when I learned about the bridge program, that this would be an, uh, a very. Efficient way to move straight into, um, that program instead of getting used to not being in school and then

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 19:29

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 19:29

go back to the classroom as I had previously done. So it was, that was an easy fit for me. But I think that having a doctorate has helped to open doors. Of course, the training that goes into, um, into a doctorate and, and those vary across the different. Programs that are out there, um, has been beneficial as we start to plan curriculum, as we align curriculum, as we talk about, especially evidence-based medicine. Um, I was very appreciative of the, of the. The experience I had with Butler of working, um, specifically with my mentor individually, of having her give feedback and, and, and giving suggestions and, and that kind of stuff on my research project. And I think that has benefited us as a program as we look to, To align what we're doing in research methods one and two in the capstone and, and how that will influence how our students practice medicine. And returning back to the evidence, what does the evidence say? Going back to, you know, the updated guidelines, the updated studies that are coming out, and making sure that they're staying on top of those, those items.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 20:42

Yeah, that's, I, I think the, um. You know, it's certainly an evolving space in, uh, in, in what we're doing. And, and, um, you mentioned, you mentioned mentorship essentially, and they're working, you know, closely with, with your Capstone instructor. And it sounds like, interestingly now you've moved into a PA education role and you've started doing some mentoring. So, you know, I imagine, uh, you know, if someone's listening and thinking about. Possibly moving into PA education, what, what are, what do you think the role of that mentoring is to be able to, to learn and grow in that role? And maybe if someone's looking at programs and interviewing as the, you know, how might they get a sense of, of kind of that the, the ability of the, the, their, you know, potential colleagues to help 'em move into the role effectively.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 21:33

Well, I think mentoring is at the basis of our success. You know, you can learn from someone's mistakes and then also they can kind of hold your hand until you're comfortable, um, to, to move into places, to, to work independently. Um, and PA education is. Um, multifaceted. We're called upon to do things that were not necessarily content experts. Um, hey, I need you to teach a lecture on, um. this particular subject and you're going, oh, uh, I'm gonna have to go back and study.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 22:06

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 22:07

a self-proclaimed complete nerd, I'm okay with that. Uh, so, you know, when we, we, we look at that, the mentoring is, is essential though. I mean, when you have someone who has gone through some of the steps and they understand curriculum, they understand the bigger picture they can, they can talk you through maybe how to write test questions or exam questions, but also why it's important to. sure we nail down this part of the process first before moving into that. And also help to understand where the learner is. You know, oftentimes we just think education, they should just get it. Um, but a first year, first semester student looks completely different than a second year, third semester student

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 22:48

Sure.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 22:49

different. Um, and so that mentorship really helps us to develop our strengths. And identify our weaknesses and when we're moving through that process. Um, we here at Mississippi State University, our PA program is in a different location than, um, than the larger university. We have two separate locations and so there are other programs here, um, we are oftentimes. of dependent upon each other for a lot of the mentorship that that occurs. And so it's, it is been very beneficial for me to learn from others that were here and, and they can go, okay, this is the whys that we did this particular change. For instance, we moved. pharmacology from third semester in the first year to first semester. Well, why did we do that? And then we can go back and look at data and we can talk about how that has benefited our students and, and why we want to stay there. You know, it's not just because that's why we always did it. This is, this is why it made sense. Um, but, but how to approach students, how to coach students, how to mentor even students who may be interested in PA education. Um, that mentorship kind of anchors us and helps us to. To be able to develop even further.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 24:06

Yeah, I don't know if this is, has was the case for for both of you, but I always found that. Um, I guess I kind of, I should have known getting into PA education that there'd be mentoring of students and I kind of thought about maybe in the advising sorts of, sorts of realms, but it's always so amazing to me, um, that, you know, even a small, what you might think is kind of a small thing can have a really big impact. And that was always really, really interesting. When I, I worked early in my career was primarily on the didactic. Teams at, at programs I was at, and the, so you'd work really closely with those students over a year or more. You'd send 'em out on clinical rotations, you'd sort of see 'em periodically and then all of a sudden they'd come back for graduation and they were like these polished professionals.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 24:55

Right.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 24:55

and that growth in that time I always thought was just really incredible. Every, you know, I've been through a lot of commencement ceremonies at this point, and every time there's this just pause of like, wow, that's, and you know. It it 101% because the students worked really hard. But if there was a, you know, a little opportunity to help support 'em or guide 'em or put 'em in a position to be successful, uh, that's pretty cool. And I think that's a kind of a unique, at least for me, kinda a unique aspect of, of PA education, I'd say.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 25:23

I feel that way every callback day when they come on campus. I'm like, there you guys are, you know, and they wanna tell you a story. I'm like, but look at you. You helped to run a code. You know, you've helped to do

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 25:33

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 25:36

just amazing to hear their stories and so. Um, and, and it is also, it's, it's humbling to me and powerful as I think through like what we're doing in the classroom impacts what they do in clinic, which ultimately impacts our patients' lives. So the impact that we have in the classroom will, will ultimately impact people that we will never see and we'll never encounter. And so for me, that's why I take it so seriously. And so, you know, it's, it is, um, it's very important for me to be intentional about what we're doing in the classroom because that will affect. of others. That's someone's grandmother, someone's mom, someone's aunt, uncle, niece, nephew.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 26:14

Yeah.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 26:16

What a, what a what a calling. And, and you know, I think, you know, at its core teaching and education in the, you had mentioned the, your work in, in Butler in the capstone, and that's some of my, my. Favorite work that I've ever done is, is mentoring students through that capstone where they develop a novel research proposal. And because it's it's unfamiliar territory,

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 26:38

Mm-hmm.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 26:39

and students oftentimes start with a position of like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't think I can do this. And by the end of it, they've developed something. They've developed a real deal clinical study that's feasible and of value. And nobody did that with them. And it's just, you know, the com what you, you know, you'll read course evaluations, which is a whole other, that's a whole other, uh, part of PA education is getting, getting feedback. Um, but, but comments like, I didn't think that I could do this and now, and I did. And that kind of opening up of possibilities. I think you see it so much in PA students too, where.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 27:14

Yeah,

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 27:15

They gotta learn a lot in a relatively short amount of time. And so, um, I always think that, you know, as just a core education concept, that growth and being a small part of that, that's, that's pretty cool.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 27:26

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 27:26

and I think it correlates, you know, in healthcare you see patients who come in and, and they don't have an answer, and you're able to. find a diagnosis, help find the appropriate treatment, help to manage that, and, and you can see that patient thriving. And so it's a, it's a similar yet different experience from, from the classroom into clinicals into practice where you watch students. Maybe they've, they've struggled with. we'll pick on anatomy because that's what I've taught, you know, and they're like, I just, I just don't like this. And, or, or it's just hard to study or I don't understand how to study. And then watch them as they grow throughout the process, throughout, um, the didactic year and then into the clinical year, and then all of a sudden they're practicing and doing crazy amazing things, you know? Um, and the same thing, you know, it is a very similar type, uh, correlation.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 28:15

Pam, as you've made this transition, is there anything that you might have done differently as a new PA educator?

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 28:26

Probably the one thing I would've done differently is try to become more, I, I, I utilized the jumpstart through PAEA with new faculty and that kind of thing, but I

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 28:36

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 28:37

I would've sought out a couple of other, been a little bit more intentional, seeking out more mentors,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 28:43

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 28:46

you know, what we do in our program, what, what everyone does within their own program is a little bit unique and you have to develop and, and, um, respond to what's happening within your program. But sometimes it's nice to have an outside party to say, Hey, does this make sense? Or, um.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 29:02

Yeah.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 29:02

is this appropriate alignment of whatever we're doing in the classroom, um, and those resources are available. Um, but for me, I think I, and, and I continuously, you know, self evaluate. Do I need more, um. Of that mentorship

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 29:19

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 29:20

in this position I'm in right now. Yes. The answer's always yes. You know, I mean, it is always helpful to have others advice and, and, and that kind of thing. Um, but I think that's probably one of the things I would've sought, I should have sought more,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 29:33

Mm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 29:33

just, um, from, people who had already, um, blazed that trail.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 29:41

That was kind of a backwards looking question, but as our kind of time together wraps up.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 29:45

Sure.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 29:45

I have a forward looking question too. Do you happen to have, and maybe you don't, but do you happen to have kind of like a mantra or a guiding principle, something that when you're not sure what to do, you just go back to like, here's what we do in this situation. Here's, here's our guiding light.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:01

Oh wow. That's, um, that's kind of a, that's a hard question.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 30:06

I know.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:08

you know, at the end of the day, like what is, what is. When we're thinking about making changes for, in the program with students, like what is gonna be the best thing that will ultimately affect other people's lives? So,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 30:21

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:22

and I mentioned moving Farm as we're talking about even other courses changing, making changes in that kind of stuff. Will this help help our students to learn efficiently so that they can progress through the program to become better clinicians? You know? And so those are kind of questions we always come back to,

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 30:39

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:39

when we're looking at any of that. Again, ultimately at the end of the day, we'll be affecting other people's lives.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 30:46

Right?

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:47

and, and making some for some of those people will be life changing.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 30:51

Mm-hmm.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 30:52

you know, so those are always the things that we consider as we're making changes to a rubric and an OSCE larger changes with curriculum development.

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 31:02

Yeah. Keeping the end in mind even at the beginning.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 31:07

That's right. That's

squadcaster-99f8_1_09-24-2025_100517 31:08

Thank you.

cody-sasek_1_09-24-2025_090529 31:09

That's great. Well, Dr. Rader, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I thought it was a great conversation and, uh, we wish you the best and, and, uh, hope, uh, I think our, our listeners will, will really appreciate and enjoyed the, the conversation. So thank you so much.

pam_1_09-24-2025_090528 31:24

Thank you so much for having me.