How to End Tenancies the Right Way - Ep. 32

Welcome back to The All Things Property Podcast, where Simon Bacon and Ian Sadler break down the realities of property management in a rapidly changing legislative landscape. 

To get the resource we mentioned, simply email simon@prefprop.com, and we'll send it over. 

This week, we’re tackling what it really takes to end a tenancy under the new rules. Gone are the days of quick, straightforward notices, today’s landlords and tenants face longer notice periods, stricter requirements, and a much greater need for upfront planning and watertight record-keeping. 

Whether you're a landlord wondering about your routes to possession, a tenant navigating your new rights, or just trying to make sense of Section 8 versus Section 21, Simon Bacon and Ian Sadler will guide you through the practical implications, common mistakes, and why good communication has never been more important. 

If you want honest, local property advice without the corporate jargon, you’re in the right place.

Chapters
00:00 Discussing new property legislation

04:12 Discussing Section 21 Abolition

07:44 Tenant notice period discussion

09:46 Landlord responsibilities and tenant notices

14:56 Tenant document receipt process

17:00 Ending a tenancy requires planning


______________________________

Get in touch with Simon for all your property needs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.prefprop.com

E: simon@prefprop.com

T: 0121 2402244

______________________________

Get in touch with Simon for all your property needs. 
www.prefprop.com

E: simon@prefprop.com

T: 0121 2402244

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today Ian we're going to talk about ending a tenancy under the new legislation, notice periods, rights and what happens next. Welcome to the All Things Property podcast with me, Simon Bacon of Preferential Properties. Every week Ian Sadler and I will delve into All Things Property. We'll guide you through with friendly, no nonsense advice. I suppose for me, any tenancy used to feel quite straightforward, but with the changes that have come in, it's no longer as simple as just serving notice. So talk us through about how a tenants now end a tenancy. What are the notice requirements?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Tenant would need to give two months notice on the anniversary date of the rent payment. Yeah. And they which is gives them far more security of tenure and far more flexibility of tenure.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, but it's it's relatively simple, isn't it? Yeah, pretty straightforward. Two two months notice and uh uh away they go at at any point. Landlord's routes to possession, what's what's that going to be now?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Roots of possession are selling the property or moving back into the property. Well they're the easy ones, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

But effectively loads of grounds. They've got to use it's a section eight notice, no longer section 21, section eight notice, lots of different grounds, lots of different reasons for being able to serve notice, but somewhat more complicated, I would have said. Potentially more expensive as well. More expensive, more complicated. I think what will be fundamental to all landlords is understanding the the correct route. Any landlords who aren't sure what route to uh to follow, we have got on a link to this particular website what all the various grounds are. So if you want some uh guidance or just want to know what those grounds are, what the various grounds are, then do click the link following this podcast. So Ian, something that you picked up on was um or one of the one of the um ending tenancies you talked about was landlords wanting to to sell or move back in. How does how does that work in in practice?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Well, they'd have to serve notice under section eight of the housing act, uh which gives the tenant four months' notice of their.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

What's the difference then?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

What what would a landlord have done previously under the previously that is served section 21, which would have given the tenants a specific two months notice, and they could serve that at any time after any relevant time during tenancy or after the tenancy. Um it's not that simple now. There are various restrictions that make it less of an option for a landlord to do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Yeah, I mean, do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing? I know we're we're in the new legislation now, and we've got to see how that works. What do you think the implications could be? Because if I was a landlord thinking of um, you know, selling my property, and landlords do that, don't they? They do think, oh, do you know what? You know, my circumstances have changed or something's happened, you know, maybe it's time for us to to sell our property. So let's, you know, much as I don't like to do it, let's serve the tenant a notice. Only takes uh in the old system, you know, you've got a couple of months and then we pop it on the market. That's that's changed.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

You have to be really certain about your plans, then you can't sit on the fence and say, well, if it doesn't sell, I'll re-let it because it the rules and regs have changed with that from a timescale perspective. So do you think that's good? This whole act is aimed at the renters reform, isn't it? It's making it more secure, secure offering more security of tenure for tenants, and that's in in in as much as it makes landlords less keen, less less able to, you know, on a whim make a decision.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

That's what this that's what the legislation was there to do, wasn't it? Wasn't it to give tenants a little bit of security that if a landlord wants to sell, they can still sell it. It has to be committed to. But it has to be has to be planned. They have to know that's what they want to do. You know, there was all this um for me, there was loads of this negativity and stuff that landlords just want to get rid of tenants because they fancy a change. That's what section 21 abolished. But really, you know, all this is doing is saying to a landlord, there are so many grounds you can still sell your property, you can still serve notice on a tenant to vacate because you want to sell a property. But what you've got to do is you've got a plan for it. The notice period is now four months, so that means that there's no point a landlord thinking in January, oh, do you know what? I think I'm gonna sell my property, get it ready for the you know, Easter market, which is traditionally what some people will do. They've got to have thought about it the back end of the year before in order to market it for the Easter market, and what they're not going to be able to do is to go, oh, I've put it on the market, I've tried it for two or three months and hasn't sold. So I'll give Simon a call and say to him, Well, can you put it back on the rental market for me, please?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Which could be perceived as a tactic of increasing the rent, which people used to be able to do, but they're not not they can't do that now.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

So ending a tenancy now has to be for for those kind of grounds, has to be thought through. You have to think, I'm planning for my exit from this particular property or properties. If you rush, you're going to get it wrong. So, you know, for me, the section eight notice for selling is a positive. How many times have you served a section 21 notice, a valid section 21 notice, because a landlord has wanted to sell, and what has the tenant said to you?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Have I only got two months? Well, that's where the flexibility aspect comes in, isn't it? It's um I think landlords need to be aware if they're selling that uh properties will take time to sell, and it may be a case of well, what's to stop the landlord extending a tenant's tenancy past the four months if it suits both parties? I presume there's an option to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

And um there is, but communication, isn't it? If if a landlord wants to sell, does he want to sell with a tenant in or a temp tenant out? Surely there's got to be a point where you're giving the tenant four months. So why would you want the tenant to stay in longer than four months if you're trying to sell it? That's that's that you know, going down the old route of Well it is, but it might suit their financial circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

If they're committed to selling and the income's not um not that important to them, they can manage without it, then the you uh the the logical route to follow would be enforce the four months and get the tenant out and sell it in when they can possess it.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Isn't that the way that we should be going? Yeah, I think it's a good thing. Because if if you leave a tenant in and then you suddenly find a buyer, and the tenant's then under pressure, if they haven't found anywhere, they've you've said to the tenant, oh, you can stay in until the landlord is sold.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

No, you can't do that. But um conversely, you could say to tenant, if you find somewhere within the first one or two months or three months, it suits both parties, then doesn't it? Well the tenant.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

You're given the option, so you're giving you just that hasn't changed, has it? Because you've still, even under section the old, the old regime, if a tenant said, you know, you've given me two months, I'm giving you a month, now it's four months, a tenant can still just give you two months. So you've got to be the whole reason for section eight for selling and the longer notice period, I think, is absolutely justified in terms of, you know, I've done it where tenants I've given them two months notice, and the tenant has said two months. I've only got two months to find a new property, and all the hassle and implications of of going with that. So, you know, I would have said four months for selling is is gives everybody a bit of breathing space and the opportunity to go, right? I'm gonna find I can I've got four months to find somewhere. You know, that's a lengthy period of time. But if the tenant does find somewhere within two months, so the tenant has the flexibility to go notice I found somewhere, I'm not, you know, I I'm not gonna lose out because I've got uh you know I can't give my notice. The tenant can still give their notice, so for me it's it it's it's a business, isn't it? Ultimately it'll be a better affairer system. Yeah. And also if you think if you also think about it, a lot of the Section 8 ground, so persistent non or persistent late payment of rent, you know, you're talking about you only need to give the tenant two weeks' notice, and then you can apply to the courts. Isn't that advantageous? It means that you can, as a landlord, as a letting agent, you can act quicker, you don't have to keep on waiting. So for persistent late payment, you don't have to be in arrears, it can just be that you know the landlord is fed up because the tenant is persistently messing around with paying their rent. Yeah, but that ground on its own is which yeah, it is very so you know I think what we will show through this whole podcast is information, communication, record keeping, you know, you have got to have stuff really buttoned down, which is why any landlord has to be very cautious and make sure that the properties are being managed, that they're keeping good records, and that they have got a I don't know, a history that supports what they want to do. So what what tends to happen, you know, in your experience, what what happens after a notice is served? You don't often get, you know, you serve a notice, not often that you know anything really happens, is it? Straight away, the tenant takes a bit of time to think about it, landlord it it ends in compromise by the landlord, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Because you can't complete the sale of a property in two months, but a tenant can find a property within that two months, or well it's it's it's irrelevant what used to happen because it's it can't happen now, can it? But the flexibility from a landlord's perspective is not as uh as good as it used to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

No. And I think for me, you know, uh the only the only fly in the ointment that I can I can see which is no different to what used to happen, was court timelines.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Which is why landlords are are going to be reluctant to push that button, aren't they? Court proceedings are expensive four figures minimum time, courts are backlog of possession cases, twelve months now, best case scenario perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Letting agents, do you think they will be comfortable, you know, with the volume of Section 8 notices and the various grounds and the amount of record keeping? Do you think you know letting agents will be comfortable doing all of this? Or no, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I think it puts their public liability insurance and their professional indemnity insurance under threat.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

And I think that's something that you know for for a lot of landlords that may be an indication that you know letting agents will start to be saying to them, well, you know, yes, we we will be producing all of the documentation, we've got all the timelines, we've got the evidence, but actually you're going to need you know a solicitor or you know someone else to actually be serving the notice to ensure that the the compliance and the the notices are are valid, etc. And I think you know for me that's one of those where you know that may come as a surprise to some landlords, won't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I think the grounds for possession, there are too many discretionary grounds. I think uh the sale one is the firmest one if you've got all the paperwork in place. Yeah, moving back into it or a member of the family is unlikely, but that does happen, that's the second most secure possession process. I think the rest are a bit up in the air, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah, absolutely. Which means that you know, I I don't know, if you what's your view? Because my understanding, you know, I've attended court on behalf of landlords on simple section 21 notices before. Um landlords have had to attend as well. You know, the days of um you know courts allowing letting agents to just you know sit in or to to lead the proceedings uh seem to be probably No, judges don't like that do they want to they want to deal with professionals.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah. Are you saying we're not professional? Not in law, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

The legal profession is a different breed. Yeah. So you know, I think there will be costs associated with it, and I think that you know, potentially a letting agent's role will be much more of a provider of information rather than you know the the doer. I think you know you may find that we we serve the Section 8 notices, but you know, I think even we will need to have guidance from from the legal profession around that. Any ideas? You know, some of the mistakes, have you ever come across any mistakes that invalidate notices?

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Ultimately with no nasty so um nasty consequences. Consequences is the word I'm looking at.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I'm struggling with my vocabulary today. Oh well, never mind. Any ideas? Do you want to give us a flavour of something?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, or not um serving the relevant documentation as far as the tenancy. We've been through that gas, electricity, VPCs, tendency deposits. Uh a checklist of about five or six things that you need to send. Easy to establish if that's not been sent to the tenant. So you can't just say I handed it to them on the day of the tenancy, you need attached your emails as a minimum, just proof of service.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah, I mean, something that we do, I don't know whether you do it.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I'm going to be doing it shortly. Are you? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

You tend to, I just I think sometimes think the podcasts are more for you than for anybody else. I learned so much. Guys listen to this man who knows what he's talking about. So what we do is all of the documentation that you have to have evidence that you've provided to a tenant at the check-in at the tenancy, we actually list it all out and get them to go through and sign that document. So, although we have all the documentation and email evidence if we need it, we actually have a very simple form that the tenant signs that says, I have received, and we list out all the documents that they have received, so that again, if you're serving a notice, you can go, here you are, there's one bit of paper. The tenant has signed it. Can't say they didn't get something because they have signed on the day they moved in to say yes, they received all of the relevant information. That's a good piece of admin, and I will be using that in the future. And any landlords again that would like to see a copy of that, there will be a link to that form at the end of this podcast. So let's talk about communication. It's something we talk about loads. So during the notice period or during any period where you know you've served a notice or a tenant is under notice, what's the important thing with communication? How does that help?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Apart from the obvious.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Well, what's the obvious then?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Well, look, keeping people appraised a situation and timelines and so on.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah. Avoids conflict, doesn't it? Yeah. By doing, by communicating, it's and that's again one of the messages I want to send out to everybody. Good communication, active, regular communication with your tenants is critical to ensuring that some of these processes like ending tenancies and giving notices can run as smoothly as possible. What about tenants' rights during the notice periods? Any changes to those? Do the tenants does the tenant, if you're under notice, does the tenants still have the same rights or do they lose certain rights, tenancy rights, or what? Um they lose any rights, do they? No, they don't go good. All the protections remain in place, their tenancy remains in force, all the obligations remain in force, and their protection remains in force during that whole notice notice period. Okay, so let's wrap this particular session up in. And I think the again, the upshot of this one, the message I'd like to send out, I think I'm sure you'll agree with me, is that ending a tenancy requires planning. If you rush it, you can get it wrong, and if you do that, it can cost you time and money. So if you are interested or considering bringing a tenancy to an end under the new regime, then please do give us a call and let us give you some help and assistance. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the All Things Property Podcast. If you found this episode useful, don't forget to subscribe, like, and share. These things really help us reach the people who need to hear this advice. See you next week.