Why Deposit Disputes Start on Move-In Day | Landlord & Tenant Checklist

ost deposit disputes don't start at the end of a tenancy. They start on day one. In this episode, Simon Bacon of Preferential Properties and co-host Ian Sadler walk through the complete move-in and move-out checklist that protects landlords and tenants from end-of-tenancy disputes.

Simon draws on 17+ years of lettings management across North Birmingham to explain what should be in place before a tenant ever gets the keys: a photographic inventory and schedule of condition, key records, utility details and meter readings, and why the signed inventory is the single most important document in any deposit dispute.

They also cover what tenants should be doing during the tenancy, how a proper final inspection works, where cleaning expectations sit against fair wear and tear, and why communication and negotiation resolve most disputes before they ever reach arbitration.

Chapters

0:00 What's coming up
1:00 Move-in day essentials: inventory, keys and meter readings
5:48 The signed inventory: your proof of condition
8:06 Preparing for move-out day
11:14 The final inspection
12:24 Cleaning expectations and fair wear and tear
16:59 Deposit return timelines
19:16 Resolving disputes without arbitration

📋 Get our free Move-Out Checklist: email simon@prefprop.com for the resource.

🎧 Listen on the go: Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/65pvM5PsStLWf6zGyEjgjE?si=6146a80b38d64e1b Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-all-things-property-podcast/id1852833218

Preferential Properties is a personal, independent lettings and sales agency serving Sutton Coldfield and North Birmingham. If you'd rather hand the compliance side to someone who does this all day, get in touch: www.prefprop.com

#DepositDisputes #Landlords #LettingAgent #UKProperty #PropertyPodcast #Tenants #BuyToLet #SuttonColdfield #Birmingham #PropertyManagement #LandlordAdvice #Renting

______________________________

Get in touch with Simon for all your property needs. 
www.prefprop.com

E: simon@prefprop.com

T: 0121 2402244

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the All Things Property Podcast with me, Simon Bacon, and me Ian Sadler. So today Ian we're going to be talking about moving in and out for rental. The checklist to avoid deposit dispute. Welcome to the All Things Property Podcast with me, Simon Bacon of Preferential Properties. Every week, Ian Sadler and I will delve into all things property. We'll guide you through with friendly, no nonsense advice. So most tenancy issues don't actually happen at the end, they're caused by things that weren't done properly at the beginning. We've talked in previous episodes about uh the checkout process and about deposits, etc. But what we're going to talk to talk through today is just that checklist to try and avoid problems happening at the end of the tenancy and why, if you get it right at the beginning, you can avoid those kind of issues. So, in terms of uh move-in day, what's it really important to make sure tenants have have access to? I'm not talking about the documentation of the legislative issues here, but I don't know, things like I'll give you I'll give you a clue on this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

I don't need a clue. Don't you? Go on then. Well, the most important document they they need is an inventory. Manage them at the property, yeah. Extensive list of photographs, as many as you like. Usual things, ovens, fridge features, freezer boxes, pet aid, gardens, front to back, shower cubicles, all those things. More photographs the better. And the tenant giving it to yeah, that's one the process of what they do with it, and spend afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Okay. So that's six out of ten. Anything you want to try and get your mark a little higher?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Um details of the utilities. A seven out of ten, yes, well done. Oh settle for seven, I think. Will you? Yeah, that's a good score for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Mediocre? I'd have perhaps tried to get it. Anyway, moving on. So keys. They're gonna need those. They are, and a good record of those keys as well, because often you get to a point where I know the keys you s give out are not the keys that come back.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, if you have a uh scan of your keys, two copies, if one's a tenant, get him to sign the other one and take that back with you, scan it onto software and permanent record.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Absolutely, it's what we do.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

You say that, but do you?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So moving on then from that, you you know, we are talking about moving day, making sure they've got your you know records of the keys, who the utilities are, what the meter readings are, um they have an inventory, they have the photographs. That's really important. If you give if you give all of that information out at the beginning of the tendency, then you know I joked about your six out of ten, but you're you're almost creating a uh seven with a bit of help, but you're then creating an environment whereby the tenant is ten out of ten because he's got everything that they need, and you as a letting agent have got everything you need to make sure this was provided at the beginning. So let's move move forward. What about um again looking at that checklist to avoid disputes, tenant responsibilities during the tenancy? How many tenancies? In fact, let me go back one. The inventory, the ingoing inventory, not many is the answer. How many questions? Okay, so that's the answer. Anyone know what the question was going to be?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

I do.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Go on then. How many give me the question?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

How many tenants are how many tenants get back a signed copy of the inventory within the timescale stipulated in tenancy agreement? Yeah, that was exactly my question in. Ten out of ten then.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Very good. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

But if your tenancy agreement doesn't, it should give you a specific number of days to get that back to the agent. If not, the document handed to them will be taken as a final document. What time scale do you give? Seven days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Okay. Five days. I talk to him all he knows. Yes. So in terms of that, what's what's the benefit of that in?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Proof of condition. It's called an inventory and a state of a schedule of condition. Photographs of the old the old days, I go back to the old days again. It was just purely written, wasn't it? And how speculative can a written report be? It's um photographs of an oven is a photograph of an oven. If a tenant signs for it, that's that's it. Three freezer boxes unbroken at the start of the tennis. I do, I do. Okay. It's only because I had somebody own up to it the other day. I'm afraid I've broken three freezer boxes. £139. Wow. How much is a new fridge? Uh double that probably.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Okay. Wow. Okay. So anyway, we're we're off this off the subject. So there's the issue is make sure, as a tenant, make sure that you do check the inventory and go through it and highlight any areas that you feel are incorrect because why is that important in?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Well, if they don't document the changes or amendments they want to be made, then they have no proof, they bring it up at a later day.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

It's too late at the end of the tendency to say, well, it was like that when I moved in when the infantry says something different and they haven't challenged it. Absolutely. Um so then you talk about during the tenancy, and again, we've we've highlighted some of these issues around inspections and about promptly reporting repairs, etc. Why is it important that um the tenant does report and look after the property during the during the tenancy when it comes to the moving out? Again, in terms of that, to avoid dispute damage or disputes at the end of a tenancy, a tenant has got to look after the property whilst they're in it and promptly report repairs. So again, I can give you examples where we've moved a tenant out, and the tenant said, Oh, it's been like that for ages. I just haven't reported it.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So would you charge the tenant in that respect? Well, if it's damage, yes. In what in what way damage? Damage from water leak?

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Um, no, not damage from water leak, but a door, a door's got damaged, an external door's been damaged. I don't know, because um of something's happened. Oh, yeah, it's it's been like that for for years. Why are you now saying I'm responsible for that? Why are you charging me or going to charge me for that as damage? So it is really important. What we're trying to do here is say to people, when you move out, you can't say it was like that at the beginning of the tendency if you haven't documented it, and you can't then go, well, it's always been like that, or it's been like that for the past X number of months or X number of years, and that's that's not my fault. So, for example, your freezer drawers, well, yeah, but it happened during the tenancy. Well, that's not my fault. How's it not their fault? Well, that's that's what they're saying. It is their fault, isn't it? If they say, Oh, that happened because uh, you know, it the the drawer got stuck. And why did it get stuck? Exactly, it got stuck because they hadn't defrosted the freezer. Exactly. So ongoing care during the tenancy, the more you care for the property during the tenancy, the more chance you've got of avoiding deposit disputes at the end of the tenancy. So preparing for move out day, what do you do? Do you do you send them anything for that?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah, I send them a uh A4 list of move out notes detailing what I expect them to be to do prior to handing back the keys. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Move out checklist is available as a link at the end of the episode if you are interested. So I think one of the important things preparing for move out day properly is don't leave it to the last minute, don't leave it to the last day. If you're going to have to get stuff cleaned or you need someone to come in to do something, whether it's an oven clean or do the gardens, or you're doing the gardens yourself, don't leave it to the last day and then go, well, it was raining on the day that I moved out, so I couldn't cut the grass.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think yeah, I know 100%. I think um corners tend to be cut on move out cleaning. So I not only give them the sheet of notes, but I also offer them any assistance they might need, gardening, general cleaning, oven clean.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Well, you can do it for them.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, I would charge a price, five pounds an hour, I'll clean their ovens for them. Really? Yeah, excellent.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So anybody who's interested, Ian Sadler uh does end of tenancy cleans at five pounds an hour, which in my opinion is quite a bargain. I think you could be quite busy at the end. At my age, you can get away with doing that.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Really? Okay. No, but on a serious note, you uh yes, um six pounds an hour. No. No. If you give the tenant an option, I recently offered a guy, I said, listen, if it cleaning often takes I'm very subtle with it, which is unusual. Cleaning often takes more time than you think. If you need any help with it, I've got a cleaner who's very reasonable, she'll give you a quote.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And he he got her in, she gave him a quote, she did it, and it's it's just um future-proofing the that's something that I always think as well is that you know, if a tenant says to me, Can you recommend a carpet cleaner? and we give them one of the one of our approved carpet cleaner companies, and they go in and clean the carpets, and we go and do the checkout, and we're thinking, Oh, you know, not as good as I would have expected, then you're not going to go back to the tenant and go, oh, you haven't done a good job. They've they've used a company that you know is good, and therefore, you know, we tend to put that to bed and just go, okay, fair enough, you you've done it, because you they're using an approved approved contract to a certain extent that mitigates any any potential disputes or any potential liability. So yeah, you know, I always think the more help you can offer to tenants is is really good. And maybe that's a takeaway for for us as well, is that uh you know, maybe we'll start giving tenants, you know, as a schedule of perhaps approved contractors to use to to help them. So thanks that, Ian. That's the first in the many episodes that we've done. You give me something that might be. I mean, you think during most of them, so yeah, absolutely. So, what does a final inspection look like? What what are you what are you doing? What are you comparing like for like with how how do you do it? I think you you would give a far more detailed answer to this because your processes are well for our listeners then, let's see how it's done sort of six out of ten, and then I can add the the eight or nine out of ten. I want to go down that route, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

John, go on. Are you using certain it works or not?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

How do you do a move out inspection?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

What are you looking at? I'm looking at um I take a copy of the inventory and explain to tenant if they haven't sent it back in within the first seven days. This is this is the one I sent to you, this will be used. Um I check the oven, the hub, the extractor hood, fridge, freezer, the bathrooms, uh and the garden are the main points where you can notice big differences. Then the others would be general cleaning of um skirting boards, walls, anything substantiated by photographic evidence. What's a reasonable expectation in terms of of cleaning? I think it doesn't the standards of expectations of cleaning don't get met very rarely. I I don't it doesn't take any time. I don't the number of times you walk into a property and you've got dust along all the skirting boards, bedrooms, living rooms, hall everywhere. Takes half an hour to do it, but it's not done. And I'm not over sure why, but hey.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

It is, you know, cleaning expectations, they should be realistic, uh reasonable and not excessive, but they are probably one of the more contentious parts of any move out. Absolutely. Um so you know, but you're right, skirting boards, cobwebs on ceilings, um, you know, dust and that sort of stuff, that's that's the fundamental really, isn't it? In terms of yeah, if and I always think if you go into a property, I was talking about this to a contractor the other day, they'd done some work and I was went in to just check the it all being done properly, you know, it was a refurbishment. And I said to them, if you walk into the first dream you walk into and it's you spot things that haven't been done, you are more it builds a picture up and you're then more inclined to search things out. Critical, yeah. Whereas if you walk in and you know you go around the property and you're thinking, No, this is good, then you're less likely to be quite so critical about every single aspect. Just out of interest, do you do a walk round first as a general walk round? Or do you start the tendency? Yeah, no, at the end of the tendency, when you're doing your move out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I think you have to get an overview and a feel for it first, and then be more specific. Have you ever been caught out?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Where you've gone in and gone, well, this looks all good, and then actually when you've started going through the inventory, you've gone now.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

I learned you learn that uh you do it once and you don't do it again.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. What are the kind of things that that you wish landlords wouldn't put into properties in terms of cleaning from a cleaning perspective?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Carpets in downstairs toilets. Yes, okay. Carpets in the hall.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah. Um slatted blinds. You know those the vertical blinds.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Oh, you mean Venetian blinds? Yeah, Venetian blinds. You mean horizontal blinds? Yes, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Horizontal verticals. Five out of ten for that one. The Venetian ones where you have to clean in between these. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. But that's again often uh one where tenants. So you have curtains in yours, do you know? No, we do have them, but you know, it's it's one where, you know, uh we often have issues with tenants who say, Oh, really? I've got to clean every single, every single slat.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Shower curtains. Would you expect brand new white shower curtain starts attention, two years later, same shower curtain, would you expect the tenant to replace that? Depends whether it's gone really poor. When you think what a what the cost of a shower curtain is exactly. I would expect them to do it, but they didn't I'd buy it from the landlord.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

That's that's kind of wear and tear, isn't it? Yes. That's the whole subject is very subjective, isn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

We have tenants who will replace a shower curtain for Because their cleanliness standards are higher than hygiene standards. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

But you know, if a tenant leaves it, often it is, you know, it's where it's wear and tear. Toilets. Yes. Do you need to go?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, I've been thank you. Okay. But um yeah, cleaning toilets is another one.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

They don't seem to like no generally, generalization, I understand it, but so you actually go again, use the ingoing inventory and the photos, and you check it off to make sure that everything is as it was and any discrepancies. Because I the way that I tend to do with um a lot of the checkout inspections will be actually the these are the discrepancies, not costed, but what are the discrepancies? What are the things that are different to the ingoing inventory? And then you strip those out and go, okay, which of those are fair wear and tear, and which are damages, and then you can start to put put costs next to them. So that's that's the approach we tend to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

In terms of deposit return timelines, what what are you up to? I normally get them back within seven days. I know that's within the guidelines, but um quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are very specific guidelines in terms of returning um the uncontested part of a deposit and notifying the tenant of any deductions you are seeking to keep. But what I would say, and this is something that um does happen, I find, on regular occasions, where you write to the tenant outlining what the uh dilapidations are, setting out what your costs are. Do you attach photos of of any deductions you're seeking or not? Well, you need proof, so yeah, I do. Okay. So we always do the photos, and then a tenant sometimes will come back, say I'm not happy with that, so you know I'm going to go to dispute. And what we then end up having to do is go back to them. So, look, the whole process is communication. So, what is it you don't agree with? Because if you go to dispute straight away, the arbitration service will say, Have you made any effort to discuss this or negotiate? And if you haven't, they won't even consider it. So it is very much a case of from a tenant's perspective and a landlord's perspective, you know, it's not written in stone. There is an element of negotiation and there is an element of subjectivity to it. What as letting agents I think we're trying to do is to be fair and reasonable. Um and you know, when I think sometimes tenants think we're here to we we go with the view of how much money can we actually deduct from a deposit, which whereas it's completely wrong because what we want to do is give it all back because we don't want the the difficulties that come with exactly to make it but there was a time where the agent could make a decision on behalf of the landlord to deduct without agreement from the tenant, anything they wanted to, and we're still living under that perception from a tenant that the landlord can and will do that, whereas he can't do that. No, no, absolutely. So if disputes do arise, how how how are they resolved?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Well, ideally without going to dispute, because that involves reams of paperwork, hours of evidence giving on both sides normally. Um so resolution beforehand to try and get a three-way conversation going between tenant, agent, and landlord and find uh that's an amicable solution. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

And if if it does end up any dispute, it's it's it's assessed based on evidence. So, you know, and I would say for everybody, be aware of that. It is any any deductions from deposits are based on evidence, photographs and comparisons between move in and move out. And actually, if you communicate well at the beginning, communicate well at the end, and communicate well during the tenancy, you are m much less likely to end up having disputes at the end of a tenancy. So, upshot to this a smooth move in leads to a smooth move out, and that's what avoids most deposit disputes. If you want sight of any of these checklists, then please do click the link at the uh end of the episode and you'll be able to uh pull them down. Thank you very much. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the All Things Property Podcast. If you found this episode useful, don't forget to subscribe, like and share. These things really help us reach the people who need to hear this advice. See you next week.