Mastering Fast Bowling: Steven Finn's Career Insights

In this in-depth interview, cricket legend Steven Finn shares insights from his career, including his early days, international highlights, challenges with technique and mindset, and his transition into broadcasting and coaching. Discover how Finn navigated setbacks, refined his skills, and his thoughts on modern cricket strategies.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, and welcome back

Introduction to Steven Finn's Career

SPEAKER_00 0:01

to the Science of Chinese podcast from Fast Bowlers Limited. In this episode, we're joined by former England Fast Bowler, Ashley's winner, and broadcaster at the FA. The conversation covers the technical and mental side of fast bowling, dealing with setbacks and injuries and adapting across formats, and how coaching, biomechanics, and trust played a huge role throughout his career. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

Hi, and welcome everyone to Science and Shiny with myself, Shiny John O, and we've got a really special guest today. We've been joined by Steve Finn, or Finney, as no doubt will be calling him through this podcast. And just before we do the proper introduction to Finney, just let me go through his sort of timeline because it's pretty impressive. Steve made his debut for Middlesex at the age of 16 to become the club's youngest debutant. He had a fantastic career spanning 18 years and was highlighted by Ash's victories and taking over 250 international wickets. He is definitely one of the most exciting bowlers of his generation. On his day, he would match anyone for pace, bounce, hostility, movement, and control. And this helped him to become the youngest bowler to take 50 Test Wickets for England. He's now begun a career as a broadcaster and commentator for Test Match Special and TNT. And it's fair to say he's an absolute natural, giving a brilliant insight into the game and knowledge to the public. Steve, really, really thanks very much for coming on and chatting to us here. How are you going at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, yeah, good, good. Nice to see a couple of uh of my old coaches there. I've spent a lot of time with you guys over the years, didn't I? So um it's nice to reconnect, but it's the IPL time, so I'm fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Well, Joe, to be fair, I spent a lot of time with you. How am I not the moment?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

That's me again.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, no, it's um yeah, it's but it's a super quiet time for broadcasters if you're not working on the IPL. So it's actually been quite nice over the last um six weeks or so just to spend some time at home with my young family um and refresh my brain for um for the summer ahead from from a broadcasting perspective and to observe as much of the um the early rounds of the county championship as possible because um it it seems like it's uh it's a bit of a fresh start for everyone in English cricket.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Do you still get do you still get excited by county cricket today?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, I do. I do because um even though I finished my England career in what 2017, I think I played my last international game and then struggled with injuries and and stuff after that. Um I still thoroughly enjoyed being in those domestic environments because of the young players that were coming through and feeling like you could make a difference as someone who had seen a lot throughout their career to then help those young players make the the best of theirs. And I'd like to think that that would be reflected in what the young guys that I played with um and shared a dressing room with would say about me. So um, yeah, I I kind of look at it now with half an eye on who's next from an England perspective. Um, and as a broadcaster, I I want to be across as much as I possibly can. So um to connect with county cricket and see what's going on is also an important thing for me to do my job properly.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Do you miss those early season early season uh stiffness and uh getting into the throes of Fares Bowling again, waking up in the morning, not being able to touch your toes, you know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. So I I've got a lot more into golf in the last four months or so. And um on a few of the days that the boys were out there playing pre-season games, I was wrapped up in um lots of layers out there playing golf, thinking the last thing I would want to be doing right now is um Johnno shouting at me, telling me I had to buy 20 overs in the day at Merchant Taylor's school. That's uh that's not that's not one.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

With the wind howling, and yeah, it's uh yeah. Those days wrapped up warm, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Isn't it amazing how John o became the old poacher turn gamekeeper? You know, could I get him out of that changing room in pre-season? No chance. As soon as he became a coach, what was he doing to you, Finny?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, running me up down.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, I was very good with my fast bowlers. I I had my fast bowling hat on a lot while I coached them, I can tell you, not like you now, Shiny.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

Absolutely. Um right, Finney, can we take you back to where it all began at Middlesex at 2005? You'd have probably had John O somewhere around in the background. Um you were the you were the youngest player to play for Middlesex at 16. Can you talk us through that, please?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, I mean, it

Early Days at Middlesex

SPEAKER_01 5:02

was a bit unexpected because uh I had been offered my first professional contract just before I turned 16 by John Embry. Um, but it was never on my mind that I might be in the hunt to play for the first team. It was more just they were trying to lock me in to have a bit more control of what I was doing between the ages of 15 and 18 to hopefully then develop into a player that could play a lot for the club in the first team. So um there were a few injuries, I bowled pretty well in practice um and for the second team in the games that I had played up until that point. Um, and it wasn't a championship game. I didn't make my championship debut until 2007 when I just turned 18. But it was a university game, and uh the main bowlers were rested, there were a few injuries, and uh and yeah, I I got called up into that first team that contained Ed Smith, uh Ben Hutton, um Jamie Dalrymple. There were there were guys who played a lot of cricket playing in that. So to be parachuted into that as a 16-year-old um was something that was yeah, uh amazing and a great experience. And I think exposing me to men's cricket early helped me develop at a quicker rate than my peers at that stage.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Yeah, yeah. And um so Johnno I I'd actually poached him uh to Somerset, obviously, when you you'd started. So we he got the lure of the bright lights of Taunton from London. Um, did you actually play against Johnno in the early years?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I don't know if I did. That the we played a couple of second team games at Taunton, but I can't imagine Johnno would have been playing in those. Um unless he was coming back from injury. Coming back from an injury, yeah. Exactly. Um, no, I didn't play against Johnno, but then you came back, didn't you, in 2007 to to play for the club, and um your first game was at Taunton for Middlesex, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

It it was, yeah. It was an interesting game, that one, Finney. You didn't play that one, did you, Finney?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I no, I'm very, very glad I missed 850, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 7:08

That was um Merz's Tim Mertz's uh debut as well, wasn't it? I think, yeah. And he batted seven that day, Finney. I mean, can you believe that? Um anyway. Yes, uh, we got we got 650 batting first, and they replied with eight eight fifty, or we got six something, and they got eight fifty. Uh so yeah, it was a nice welcome back. But one little story to that is that every lunchtime in the old changing rooms, you sort of the change rooms sort of uh combined, didn't they, on the stairway going to lunch, and every day I'd see Caddy, my old teammate, and I'd just smile at him and give me give him a big hug, go, hey hey mate, you're right every single day. And by the fourth day, when you know I bowled about 40 overs in a game, got naught for 130. Um, he sort of said to me, What the hell are you doing? Johnny, why are you still smiling at me? I said, Because mate, I know this is the only game I'm playing here this year. So yeah, it was uh but yeah, that was uh that was an interesting one. Yeah, well so Finney basically um finished me off basically at the middle sex because I I had a two-year contract in Middlesex, and then this these young guns were coming through, and it was the old knock on the door and sort of going, but Johnny, you know, your injuries and your body, etc. etc. Um, and we've got a young Steve Finn coming through, so um you know we don't really need you anymore. I was like, Oh, cool, yeah, that that sounds great. So that was the way I sort of uh sort of went out, really.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

So ironically, Finney put you out of your misery then.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

I did put me out of my misery. I thank him. And you were miserable at times, to be fair. I do thank him for it, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

So, Finney, let's move, let's move forward to 2010. So, I'd obviously come across you quite a bit in England Lions, and um you know, obviously, between myself and John O, you know, we we were trying to sort of um work with you, and and and one thing I would say to everyone who's listening is if Finney always had his own mind, that was really, really clear, and it and it was his absolute strength, especially early on in his career when he was trying to forge his way into a strong England side. And I I do remember you were very, very focused on a yes, you would work technically, but it was the mental side the I've got to get into this game, and I can remember we were actually in 2010 we were on a tour to the UAE, it was a one-day tour, and we actually took this new piece of kit, it was a stadium track man, so it's the it's the trackman that they used in golf. It was it was able to pick up speeds um from um a long, long way away. So I was we were about 80 metres away getting speeds on you, and and we also had a bit of footage that we took, which was a true 90 mile an hour ball, and it was at Hafiz. Do you remember that? You actually took his wicket, and and you did, you know, and that shows how competitive you were because you you obviously gave him a you know nice polite

Transition to International Cricket

SPEAKER_04 10:13

sort of see you later, um, and you and well well tried. Um and but that was our that was our template bit of um footage for your action, and that was the one that you went to England with because you got picked on the tour, didn't you, to Bangladesh then. Um can you remember your transition from England Lions into going on that tour to Bangladesh?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, I mean I I was fortunate, I think, that my transition wasn't that long. I think you see some guys who will go on four or five Lions tours and wonder if they're good enough, I think, or um go into those lion tour lions tours desperately trying really hard to make an impression. Whereas I was so wet behind the ears at that stage in 2010, I was 20 years old, um, only just turned 20 years old, and I um I was just going into it thinking, wow, what a great opportunity this is um to be we had some really good players who were trying to get back into the ODI team, didn't we? Ian Bell was on that trip. Um there were some really experienced guys, Michael Lum, Craig Keysvetter, who were um on the cusp of playing for the the full England team. Um and I just remember going and thinking it's almost like a bit of a free hit to me um to go there and and just try and give his best account of myself. And um if I wasn't ready, I wasn't ready. But the fact that it all happened so quickly that I had that attitude on that tour that I bowled well, but I clearly caught Andy Flowers' eye in the game that we played against the full England team on that trip. Um and then before I knew it, I was being flown to Bangladesh to make my test debut about five or six days after landing. So um everything happened so quickly that I didn't have that much time to think about it, which actually now knowing how much of an overthinker that I could have that I could that I was or that I could be at times in my career, um the fact that I didn't have to think about it that much really helped me. Um and I went into that Bangladesh tour, bowled well in the warm-up game, bowled well in the test match, and then felt accepted by those great players that were in that team. And and that was a real like super accelerated three or month, three or four month period of my career where I went from being a domestic player who had aspirations to then knocking around, knocking shoulders with Kevin Peterson, Andrew Strauss, Alistair Cook, um, and feeling like I kind of belonged there. Um, so yeah, that that really short transition definitely helped me.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

It's a it's a massive feeling though, isn't it? If you if you can get in early and feel like you belong, you know, and and it sounds so weird, doesn't it? Because you can you can be in cricket all those years playing county cricket, picking up loads of wickets, wanting to desperate to play for England, it's the biggest thing you ever do, and you get there, but there's always that doubt, isn't there? There's always that doubt. Can I can I actually do it? Can I am I good enough? And as much as the bravado and everything that you think about, yeah, of course I can, of course I can, until you put a performance in, until you start actually competing against the world's best, it's difficult to actually say you can. And actually, if you if you have a good game, it's amazing how your confidence levels can go through the roof with that, rather than the flip side of it, and you you you sort of always then clutching, aren't you, and wondering?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, and I I remember there was a spell that I bowled with reverse swing, and I love bowling with reverse swing. I mean, the only thing that would encourage me to bowl a ball now, having been retired for three years, is if you gave me a dog-chewed ball that was reverse swinging, I'd probably dust my boots off and give it a go for you. Um I I I loved, love bowling with reverse swing. So the fact that this first tour was in Bangladesh allowed me to do something that I loved doing, which was bowling with that reverse swinging ball. And I bowled a spell and Kevin Peterson came up to me afterwards, he was like, That's that's proper, that that's proper bowling. And as soon as someone like that says something like that to you, um it just kind of relaxes you and the weight goes off your shoulders. So um it was clearly him being a good teammate saying something like that to me. But to know that you were accepted by those guys helped me hugely.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah, and you also know with him he meant it. That's not he's not fluffing you there. It's you know, he means that when he says that as well, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah, definitely helped.

SPEAKER_04 14:37

So that was the at the age of 20, you made your your debut. Can you remember your number?

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Uh 647, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I only know that because I I've got some golf balls with that number on the side of it as a present.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

And your first test wicket?

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Um was uh that the famous Bangladeshi batter who was a night watchman Shahadat

The Ashes Experience

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Hussein.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Correct. Brilliant called Collingwood. Do you not find Philip Finney? Do you not find like you you make your England debut, like, and you get your cap and all that, like which is amazing. But that number is the thing, isn't it? The number is your place in history. You are the 647th, did you say, player to ever represent your country in hundred and whatever years, 150, 60, 70 years, whatever it is. Um, it that's incredible, isn't it? That's the bit that I think you know really defines defines that sort of you know, step up.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, I I'm I'm being facetious when I say I didn't know my number. I I push you. I know so you pin numbers if you want a pin number. It's um it's it's something that and when you get that the cloth cap and your first one doesn't have a number on because the one that you go on tour with doesn't have the number um stitched into the back, it's right at the back of your head that they stitch your um your um your your number in history. But then when you get home from your first tour, there's a box waiting for you at your house, and it's from the hat makers, and it's your England cap perfectly fitted to your head with your um with your number six four seven stitched in the back of it, and and yeah, that's um that's hanging in my living room.

unknown 16:21

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Real good.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Let's go let's go on to your first Ashes tour. Can you remember what year that was? Yeah, 1011. 1011. So talk us through that because that that's obviously uh must be a brilliant memory for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, I mean look, I was so naive again at that stage, like in the build-up to it, all everyone was telling me was how hard travelling to Australia was. And I was clearly wary, but I was someone who because I was on England under 19s and England Lions, I'd never gone and done a winter away in Australia, so I I had I'd never been there, I had no idea what the place was like. Um but I was just excited to be there, and again, I I think at that stage of my career I just saw it as a great free hit, a great opportunity of me to just go there, try my best, and if it didn't work out, then um then I'd have another opportunity, or I'd had other other opportunities through my career as I developed and grew and became a better bowler. Um, I didn't have any negative feelings in my mind about it at all. And when I reflect on that now, that's a mindset that I wish I could have found so much more throughout my career. Um that just feeling completely free, feeling as though you're just running up with without your wings being clipped and you were just letting the ball go. Um that is something that um that I tried to recapture, but only managed to for short periods of my career for the rest of the time. So yeah, my my overriding feeling was that I I just went there and gave it my best shot and um and ended up playing in a winning Ashes series. So what's transpired since has kind of made me realise how special that was. But at the time it it just felt another series and another thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Well, you finished off with 14 wickets at 33 on that tour, which you know that that's that's an amazing effort.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

In three tests, that was as well.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Yeah, yeah, because you uh just looking there, yeah. That that I mean that's an incredible effort. Can we go back to that thing on feeling like your wings have been clipped, Finny? Because you were the most I think of the all the bowlers that there are there's loads of bowlers I remember, and they were all all brilliant. I was lucky enough to work with two of the probably most free spirits would be you. This is when you before you got into them, would be you and Woody, who just had that just amazing love for the game, a real laser beam focus on I know where I want to get to. And you know, you were the youngest player for England to get to 50 wickets. So I would imagine at that time, or up to that time, you were feeling pretty free-spirited and probably doing what you did best. Talk us through how you felt your wings were clipped.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Um, I well, I think first and foremost, you you you have bad experiences along the way, and um, and those clearly affect your confidence and the way that you commit to bowling the ball. But I think that's one of the the most challenging things for bowlers, is especially now with white ball cricket, is committing completely to bowling the ball and just letting yourself be free and trusting all the work that you've done to um to be able to deliver what you're trying to. Um, and at that stage in my career, but I didn't I I hadn't had any of those negative things in my mind. All I was thinking about were the positives of what I could do to affect a game, what I could do to try and win a game for England. Um, but I suppose being dropped on that tour was the first time that I questioned myself in my career because when I was playing for Middlesex, I I just saw it as a great experience. Um I love doing it because I loved the club. Um, I was doing it with my mates, which which also helped as well. But being dropped

Challenges and Setbacks

SPEAKER_01 20:11

for that fourth test was the first time it made me take a step back and think, maybe what you're doing isn't right. Um, and it's the first time I really properly beat myself up in my career where I told myself that I wasn't good enough and that if I kept doing what I was doing, then I was gonna fail. So it made me reassess where I was at, I think. So that was the first time that I clipped my own wings.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yeah, and what was the reason for the for being dropped again, Philly?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Too expensive, not not enough control. Um which again is I mean it was justified because Tim Bresden came in and bowled amazingly tight um and quick in that fourth test match, and I think took four wickets in the first innings and and helped win the game. So it was it was the right decision, um, but it was the first time that I had to really reassess where I was at in my career.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Um Johnny. Sorry, I was just gonna say because I remember we when you came back from that tour and it was suddenly all about trying to not go for not go for runs, wasn't it? It was I've got to get my economy rate you know at three or under. You know, I have to get my economy rate three or under. And when you start a county season thinking that, what how did you go about how did you go about trying to do that ultimately? Because you you you you are always someone, I want to play three, I want to get better, I want to be the best. So that laser focus Shiny talks about is I have to now bowl at under three and over. How how how did that affect or how did you go about that?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Well, I suppose you you go through this and you it's like a lot of it is exploration with what you can do, like whether there's anything technically that you can change that's gonna help you um or that you can tweak as opposed to change that is gonna help you become more disciplined at hitting the top of off stump. Um Or is it a mindset thing? So you so you you're like problem solving um on the spot as to to thinking what it is, and I think that in that time sometimes I'd be too careful about putting the ball there as opposed to bowling it, whereas when I was really effective, I bowled the ball hard into the top of off stump. Um but when I came back from that tour, there were probably games in that period straight afterwards where I'd be trying to just put the ball there in order to not go for runs, which is a completely different mindset and it's not a fast bowler's mindset.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah, and you and you were someone who actually hit the stumps more than any other tall fast bowler that I'd known, to be honest, because you arrowed in on the top of off, and people were actually sitting back on you and getting bowled. Um but I I I remember you coming back from there, and I remember uh uh you know having conversations around you know, you you've got to remember what you are as well, and you are a really tall guy, what you six foot seven is it? Um you know, you bowl night you can bowl 90 miles an hour, you you move the ball, so you are naturally gonna leak runs more than other people. You know, your natural trajectory is getting a bit more bounced, you are gonna get more three-quarter edges, you are if someone gets a you know half an edge on, it's gonna fly. So your economy rate almost is a little bit like, well, it's not ridiculous, it's not stupid anyway. You're picking up wickets, for God's sake. You know, don't focus too much on trying to like change too much because what you've actually got and how you've started is it's been absolutely brilliant, and that that's the difficulty, isn't it? It you're being told one side that you need to reduce, but actually what got you there in the first place was you being you, right? And it's it's it's a real crossroads that it's a tough moment.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah, and that was a challenge for me. So I I turned 21 at the beginning of that summer. Um, and no, sorry, I was 22 at the beginning of that summer, the the 2011 summer, and um yeah, you you're like sat there thinking, well, I thought what I was doing was the best for me, but I know that I won't play for England because you're explicitly told I won't play for England unless I can control the scoreboard. I could take as many wickets as you want, but unless you can buy into the team or ethos of controlling the scoreboard, you're basically not going to play. So I didn't play a test match that summer at all for England when I was probably bowling as well as I've ever bowled in my life that year, which it like is this crazy position where there were times where I did play for England where I wasn't bowling that well, um, but because of the the way the team was set up at the time and the great bowlers that we had, um, and the fact that I did leak runs more than the others, I didn't play at all that summer.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

It's an interesting one that, isn't it? Because then you you're talking about how people balance sides, and you know, us as coaches and John and I both being head coaches, yeah. Yeah, variety is the absolute it's the lifeblood of a team, isn't it? And and let's face it, you know, I I think both of John and I being ex-bowlers as head coaches was all would always say, Well, we need 20 wickets, you've just got to get 20 wickets, and you know, you can then

ODI Success and Strategy

SPEAKER_04 25:13

you can then work out how to bring the runs down. That that would be my take on that, but there again, there aren't that many bowling coaches who are head coaches, are there? Um, and it and it must have been tough for you at that particular time because I was obviously around and involved with England, so I was sort of trying to communicate with um with the England coaches when you weren't in the side as to what we needed to do to get you back in. And it was really clear that you know, I do remember that, it was really clear that you've got to be able to um improve your economy rate. Can you remember? Were you ever given any um any advice on how to do that from England? Was there a method that they wanted you to go with or a type of bowler that they wanted you to become? And what we we're not naming any names here, we're just interested in the advice that you may have got. Should you have taken it? Yeah, or at the time, did you feel you could you really couldn't uh say anything apart from just go for it?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah, I mean, I think what I remember of that time was it was up to me to go back and figure it out, and that's where your relationship with your bowling coach at your county, which which I was well, John O was my bowling coach at Middlesex, um, and you go back and you problem solve in a safe environment, and that's what I always felt Middlesex was to me. Um, was a safe environment for me to go and be vulnerable to John O and say, like, mate, I'm bagging my head against the brick wall here, I'm trying to go under three runs and over, but I'm finding it really hard, but I don't want to lose what makes me me as a bowler. Um, and it's important, I always found, and as I'm sure we'll discuss later in the podcast, it's having that safe place that you can go back to as a player, um, and in particular as a fast bowler, where you can have those honest conversations um and charter a plan and a course forward for you as a player. So um I was lucky that I had that with Johnno, um, and I would say it was more up to us at that time to figure it out as opposed to being told by the ECB what to do.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Yeah. John, how did you you feel? Because you obviously had you know, your your um responsibility wasn't to England, it was actually to Middlesex and also to Finney as a you know young fast bowler coming back to you. How did how did you work with Finney on that?

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Yeah, I mean, I sort of alluded to it earlier that it it was a really tough one because when you've got a young fast bowler who you know is breaking records basically, um, and you're being told, well, you're going for too many runs, you're thinking, well, hold on, from an out from an outside looking in, you're going, well, hold on, you've got three or four other guys that are not going for runs. If you have one guy who actually leaks a little bit more because of his height, because of his pace, because of his bounce, etc., um, that's okay, isn't it? You know, and that as you said, when you put your coach's head on from the outside, you're sort of going, well, that's but they've obviously set their target and that's what they want to do, and they're in their right to do it. So, how do you go about you know dropping half a run and over or whatever? And it's it's a really difficult one for someone like Finney, as I said, um, because you want him to strive to bowl 88, 90, 92, 95 miles an hour. You want him to do that because that's game changing, that's world class. But if you get something minuscule wrong in your action trying to bowl at 92 miles an hour, you are gonna leak a little bit straight, a little bit wide, a little bit full, a little bit short. So, what do we want? Do we want Finney to now bowl at 85, 86 miles an hour and dob it on a length a little bit better? You know, that that wasn't what we wanted to do. So we just I think we just went around, it was a while back now, Finney, but I think we went around just trying to clean up your action a little bit, just try and make it a little bit more economical if we can. There was no way we were ever gonna try and drop pace, there's no way we're ever gonna try and drop um what made Finny him, but can we just clean things up a little bit? Can we make it a little bit more economical and and see if that works basically? And and the other thing, of course, is county cricket, you're not going at uh four and over, you're gonna go at three and over because you're a fine bowler and you're gonna create wickets and you're gonna you're gonna do the job in county cricket, but obviously when you move up to that level and the wickets are different and the players are better, you only have to be slightly out, and and it you know you get punished for it. Sorry, Frenny, I I cut in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

No, no, you don't know you're spot on. You're spot on. I think that the thing that you've also then got to um contemplate as a bowler is do you then set more defensive fields? Do you bring your gully out to a cover? Do you bring your third slip out to a cover? But then you're losing catches and you've less chance of taking wickets. So that that's the balance that I found I was constantly fighting in that time was like not wanting to sacrifice any of my of my attacking instincts because I was an attacking bowler. Um, but what where where is that sacrifice that you're willing to make?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Um and I think you I think you mentioned it, I think you mentioned it earlier, and I I vaguely remember uh the conversation actually about you trying to be more accurate, and so you end up just trying to bowl an area and you're not bowling the ball. And all of a sudden, when you try and bowl an area, you drop your pace drops off a little bit, you end up going a little bit too full, or you know, and there's nothing on it, and when there's nothing on it, you get punished more than when you're you're 100%. So yeah, it was it was a tricky one, Shiny. That and I mean you were involved in that as well, weren't you?

SPEAKER_04 30:44

Yeah, I I suppose I was very lucky to have a a bowler of the quality of you and the fact that we were friends as well, so that helped. So I was able to, you know, pretty much just be a set of different eyes on everything that you were doing because I was totally confident that you'd you know, as you said there, Finney, going back to your safe place is important, really important. Going back to a coach that you know and trust is really important who's going to spend a lot of time with you. And you know, for for someone like yourself, it actually showed that you had you know a huge amount of resolve, you built some robustness in there because there were some tricky times about to come up, weren't there? But just before we we talk about the inevitable sort of knee gate and shortened run-up and stuff, you you actually knee gate, I love that. You were taught you were doing pretty well in ODI cricket, weren't you? You you you were basically you were you were the top-ranked ODI bowler, you were a key bowler for England, you got to 100 ODI wickets, you were the third quickest Englishman to get to a hundred ODI wickets. So, yeah, what what did you find? Did you find there was a difference in ODI cricket to test match cricket for the way you could yourself?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

What was your economy rate in those hundred? Sorry, no, carry on.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Do you know what? It was remarkably good. I think I was under five and over for most of my career in ODI cricket. Um actually welding now. Yeah. What what I found was that the game plan was so much more simple. Um, and the passages of play dictated to you how you had to bowl, um, as opposed to you having to do it yourself. Um and yeah, I you just had to hammer a back of a length over the top of the stumps and challenge people to make mistakes. Whereas in four-day cricket, you're you can't live around that length or test match cricket because it's too easy for people to defend and not get out to it. Um so I found that the one-day game, especially the 50 over game, suited my natural strengths, which was angling the ball back into right-handers, bowling 90 miles an hour, um, keeping the line tight, and bowling back of a length, and just hammering away at that with the odd change of pace. I mean, the game is clearly a lot different now than it was then, um, but it definitely simplified it in my mind at that time, and I think that's why it was probably my best format.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

See, that that's an interesting one there, Finney, because I think you know, of the probably the two best bowlers of my sort of coaching area in the middle overs would have been you and Plunke. Because you both it it was a similar method but different, if you see what I mean. Your yours, as you said, was about just choking line, wasn't it, and and giving them nothing to hit. Whereas Plunkett's was a little bit more around sort of variation of bounce with his cross seamers, you know, heavy lengths, bumpers, you know, to try and get people to play square of the wicket if they wanted to take him on, you know, and he ended up being very, very successful. But the the the clue was in the type of bowlers that you both were when you're at your best, which was really aggressive, you know, clear plans in those middle overs. And it's it's interesting, isn't it? We we is 50 over cricket going to gather a little bit of pace in the next few years. That's going to be interesting. See whether the

The Evolution of Bowling in T20 Cricket

SPEAKER_04 34:12

the world would would do that. Do you think that type of bowling now converts into T20 cricket as well?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Um, I I certainly think wicket takers, yes. I think you have to have wicket takers in those middle overs um in white ball cricket. Um, because uh if you don't, you get hurt so badly at the end now if you're not looking to have that intent to take wickets. So what I would always do when I had the ball in my hand was look to take wickets, and that doesn't mean looking to bowl big in swinging York as every ball, it's just trying to stack the odds more in your favour with the size of boundaries or the pitch that's in front of you or the player. Um you're constantly making these decisions, but I would always err on the side of aggression, which again I think it slows the scoring rate, it allows not people people not to be settled as you go into that back end, and there's definitely space for that in 2020 cricket.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

So, Finney, you're a pretty feisty bloke on the uh on the pitch. Okay, let's so let's ignore the cash that's on offer now, right? How would you fancy playing T20 cricket now?

SPEAKER_01 35:23

I mean, it's it's bloody hard, isn't it? And I I think when you're watching, you have to remind yourself that guys aren't robots because if you miss as a bowler, um I you see so many guys hitting what would be the perfect Yorker if we're playing the Yorker game that we used to play, where you have to try and get the ball underneath the bar in the block hole. There are so many Yorkers now that would go underneath that bar easily that go for boundaries. I I I think the hardest thing that I would find now in T20 cricket is for that not to wind me up and then it affects your next ball. I think I think the best bowlers have this ability to just be able to wipe what has happened and focus completely on what they're about to do. Um and I think that's quite consistent across all the best T20 players in the world with the with the ball in hand. So that would be the biggest challenge, would be the mental side of the game of knowing that you've nailed your skill, but it's gone for four or six. Can you do it again?

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Yeah, yeah.

Mental Challenges in Modern T20 Bowling

SPEAKER_02 36:26

It was interesting when I um uh was lucky enough to work with um PC and Sam Curren, and you know, you're you're setting 220 fields and plans and everything, and then they go out to to play, and all of a sudden you see the field, you go, right, I know what he's gonna bowl, and then it you know it's set up for uh you know the big offside pitch or something, and then all of a sudden it's a bouncer to the short side, and you're like, oh hold on, what's what's going on? And and I think they were the ones that, from my perspective, from certainly domestically, you've started bluffing and then double bluffing and and bowling the ball that the batter wasn't expecting. I mean, that's just normal now, but we're talking maybe five, six, seven years ago, they they certainly were doing that. And what's quite interesting as a coaching point of view, you know, you've set all your plans up, but actually they're doing the opposite. Now, how do you how do you bat you know how do you react to that? Well, it's actually you you've got to give the player the freedom to feel the game, and I think Shiny, we've we've spoken about this previously about coaching. How do you coach a player to understand the game and feel the game and know what's required within the game? Because coaching's become very planned and structured, and this is what we're gonna do to him and his matchup, and this and that. Actually, how do you learn the game? You know, the feeling of the game when you're out there, it's difficult.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yeah, it is, it is. And I I remember I used to go to so Trent Bridge was an easy place for me to go and watch games to sort of look at potentially young cricketers to to move into the lines, etc. And you know, difficult place to bowl Trent Bridge in one-day cricket because it's so small. And I remember you know, I was watching Jake Ball bowl once, you know, in a really decent one-day bowler. I spoke to his bowling coach afterwards, Andy Pick, and it the ball had gone everywhere for everyone. And um, I said, Picky, how do you review that with your bowlers? And he said, it's quite simple, shiny. I just say to them, lads, if you end with the ball you started with, you've done pretty well in this game at this ground. It was it was do you know what? It was it was one of those moments where I just thought, brilliant, you know, you're sort of not taking it too seriously because it is an absolutely crazy game at times, you know, and I think that there's a certain amount of, and I go back to the fact that you were pretty, pretty feisty on the pitch, Finney. You I I I literally don't see bowlers lose it now because they're actually sort of at peace with themselves that even their best balls that would have gone under any bar you could set up are going out of the park. And I suppose as long as you've practiced them, and you know, when you look at it now, you've you've only got a certain amount of balls that you can bowl. You know, there's there's and and Peter Moores is really good with this actually when you talk about you know, he's now on the franchise circuit and goes round. There's there's sort of two lines, which is straight or wide, and there's three lengths, which is either at your toes, right in the middle, or at your head, and you've got to work out the different paces and the different times that you do that. And you know, what I quite like is people seem to be simplifying it now, and you know, as a coach, the days of sending out you know, Johnny, you said about matchups and stuff like that. I'm sort of beginning to understand that that's a lot of that's for the captains, isn't it, to be able to to make decisions and you know who they can possibly go with? But you know, I I'm I'm seeing that generally maybe the best T20 fast bowlers are the ones that keep it really simple

The Importance of Simplicity in Bowling

SPEAKER_04 40:06

and and don't take it too seriously if they get met, which let's face it, it in this game at the moment is going to happen, isn't it? Um, Finney, do you think if you were playing now, do you think that playing all formats, or let's go specifically playing T20, do you think that would have helped your international cricket, or do you think the segregation from sort of like Jimmy and Brady went to just test match players? Or you know, how do you think that works for the modern one-day fast bowler or sorry, modern fast bowler?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Well, I think it's very challenging because when you're talking about playing T20, I look at the guys that are playing the IPL now that could be playing a test match in early June. If they get all the way to the IPL final, they'll come back, have three days prep, and then they're into a test match. So um I think the the frequency um or the gaps between games being so small now, I think it's really hard to prepare properly for it. Um so I think we are gonna see more segregation of people who uh are specialists in each of the formats. And I think the games are really different. When I played I played all three formats for um for most of my England career, I was in all three squads a lot of the time, and um the the difference in skills wasn't vast between the three, especially 50 over in T20 cricket. Um but you felt like you could survive and manage all three. As long as you practiced a good Yorker and you had one slower ball, then I I think that you could transcend across formats. But now I think what you're required to do as a bowler, um, you need to have a ball that that spins in, you need to have a ball that spins away, you probably need to have another slower ball as well that that goes straight, but you need to be able to nail your Yorker. Uh already there's like these skills that you have to practice in order to get better at um that you just don't have the time to. So um I I won't be surprised now if we see fewer and fewer guys playing all three formats and becoming specialists in in one of them.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

Well what did you find the hardest format?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I found the hardest format. That's a good question. Um I suppose it varied throughout my career. Um but I I I thought I think I found a way to be competitive in whichever format um that I played. But there were times where I found the four-day game really challenging for fitness and the the stuff that we spoke about earlier, where you're second guessing yourself a lot, whereas the white ball games I found really focused my mind and lasered me into what I had to do. So um I probably found the most challenging format, the longest format. Um yeah,

Adapting Techniques: The Shortened Run-Up

SPEAKER_01 43:01

on balance.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

Yeah, yeah. Let's let's go to a little bit of you know, you're where you need you needed to be coached. Okay, you needed to find some um uh some help. Okay, so you know it's well publicised that you shortened your run-up um at a certain time in your career. And you know, if we if we're looking at all all bowlers out there, you know, we're not just talking about young bowlers, but you know, obviously yourself, you were a you were a proven international cricketer, and you decided to, or you received some advice on shortening a run. Can you talk us through that? What uh what you know, obviously how it happened and then what happened subsequently.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah, I mean I was reluctant to do it, but in 2012, uh for some reason I I had a really long run up and I got a bit close to the stumps in 2012 and started kneeing the stumps. It probably happened once every Four or five overs, maybe so not super frequently, but it it happens sometimes. And um I nicked off Graham Smith in a test match at Headingley, bowling down the slope, got caught by Strauss at first slip, and the umpire called a dead ball, uh Steve Davis. And from that moment forward, every time I needed a stun, it was a dead ball. And then about three months later, the laws of the game got changed to then it being a no-ball, with which comes consequences, especially in white ball cricket. If you bowl a no-ball, clearly it's a free hit, which you can't afford to do in especially in T20s. Um so I had to find a fix around it. And when I look at that time in my career, I went from playing all of the summer, I went straight into a T20 World Cup, I went straight from there to India for two months to play test matches, went straight from there home for a week, then back to India for a month to play white ball stuff, then went from there to straight to New Zealand to play three Test matches, three ODIs, and three T20s. So there was no time in that period of my life for me to take a step back and work on what I needed to, which was the mechanics of my running to the crease, which was making me dart in at the last second and disturb the stumps with my knee. But I had to look for a short-term fix in order to keep playing. Like, bear in mind 18 months previously, I missed an entire summer of test match cricket because I wasn't in the team, I wasn't prepared to give that away. So I looked for a short-term fix to try and keep myself in the team and not need a stump, not cause the team no balls. Um so I thought that shortening my run-up and just sprinting towards the middle of the crease was the way that I could not lose my momentum and that I could not go near the no go near the stumps because if you don't lose your momentum, um, which I was doing, you're not going to dart in towards the stumps. So in a lot long story short, it was a short-term fix to a problem that um just required me taking a month out to um to work on my running mechanics to to keep that natural long flow to my run-up that I had before.

SPEAKER_04 46:14

Yeah, yeah. And uh did you did you find a way back from that?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Uh I yes, I did, yeah. So uh again, the the knock-on effect of me um shortening my run-up was that it made my levers really short when I was bowling, and and I went from being this free-flowing, long-levered bowler that used the momentum that my run-up gave me to get momentum through the crease, um, to a bowler that was forcing the ball down there, um, which was great when everything clicked and it went well. I was bowling like 95 miles an hour. Um, I felt in great control when it was good, but then on the bad days, it would be all over the place. Um, and that was a scary feeling was being that out of control. Um so then the everything knocked on to get to a point in 2013-14 where I went to on an ashes tour, um, basically like got myself in such a tiz um and so confused with what I was trying to do that it I couldn't be selected. Um, was sent home from that Ashes tour, and then that's when me and John O really um got our heads together with the help of Angus Fraser and and Andy Flower to try and realign and unpick the tangle that I'd got myself in for those 18 months previously or for that year previously. Um, and that was a huge challenge for us at the time. And me and Johnno spent a lot of time in the indoor school before anyone would get there trying to iron out these kinks in my action that had come as a result of me changing my run-up to a to a short run-up 12 months previously.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

John know, how did you approach that one?

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Um, so how do I approach that? We I mean, obviously, Finney at that point was I mean, you couldn't get any lower. I I I you know obviously knew him as a as a bubbly positive guy who loved cricket, and you know, to see him the complete opposite and be in absolute pieces was really hard actually. Um, and I suppose from my point of view, I I I with with Finney, we I sort of took away the England bit. I don't know if you remember this, Finney, but we sort of said let's not focus on let's forget England for a while, right? Let that that that's down the line somewhere, right? Let's focus on you being like, and this is gonna sound weird because we went above England in the end. We said, let's focus on you being world's best. What does world's best look like? What does it what does world best mean? Right? So we talked about six foot seven, bounce, swing, um, you know, control, right. So that's our own. That's what we're gonna do, right? We're gonna set the bar as high as that, and we're gonna aim for it. And do you know what? You know, fitting out of every person I've ever met, the hard work that Blake puts into uh training and practice and being the best he possibly can be was unbelievable. We were in the indoor school 7.30 in the morning because you know, we wanted to do it away from the other guys, we want to do it privately, we didn't want other people, you know, it's difficult at lords because you get members of public, you get you know, people booking nets and everything in the indoor school. So we wanted to be just us, no one else around. So it was like 7:30, 7.15 in the morning. And then we started just with a standing star, didn't we? Start getting your arms moving, start feeling your length of your action and your arms flowing, and you know, and that was the start of it, really. And and and what the one thing we always joke about, the one thing we made sure that happened was we took the GPS out of your vest. Because if if the sports science guys knew how many overs uh Finney put in that preseason, I don't think I don't remember having a conversation with you about that. I was trying to get you in trouble about it, but it was never it was never gonna he was never gonna like get over it by bowling a few overs a day, right? So it had to be the hard the hard yards, and if you're gonna have anyone who's gonna put the hard yards in, it was it was finished. So it was it was a process, wasn't it? But it it it came came through nicely. And I think Shiny, you were gonna mention uh about the the running style stuff as well, which was really important, an integral part to it.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Yeah, I mean a guy called Raf Brandon, didn't we, who um you know was uh firstly an athletics coach, but then he was head of science and medicine. And I can remember we we dragged him along, didn't we, to Old Merchant Taylors on frosty mornings. So yeah, you know, we remember that piece of footage that we always went, which the 2010 that that 90 mile an hour ball on track man, which on a gun on TV would have been probably closer to 94.95, but it was also a wonderful technique from a run-up point of view, and we sort of tried to use that as a as a baseline to do your running drills. Just talk us through how that went, Fanny.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Well, we used to talk the word bounce was what we spoke about, wasn't it? So um where when I was running, I had a bounce to myself in that run-up where it gave me time when I got to the crease to be able to unlock all of my levers and my height and the braced front leg and and the whip over the top of it. So um we were looking to re find that bounce, I think, because it had become quite flat and quite hurried, um, and not uh not very smooth and natural. Like I was a good natural runner, but in that period of my life, if you put a cricket ball in my hand, I looked like I'd never run before in my life. Um, and it was about unpicking that and regaining that bounce. So the drills that we did, I mean, but people, if they'd have seen us doing them, they must have thought we were crazy. But um, I always had a cricket ball in my hand to make me familiar with the feeling of doing these bounce drills with a cricket ball in my hand. But there would be I'd be running backwards, I'd be doing up and over the fences, but all with a cricket ball in my hand, with Raf barking at me, telling me that it wasn't good enough. Um and but it was it was like a resetting of like my core central nervous system to be able to relax with a cricket ball in my hand and run naturally with a cricket ball in my hand, um, so that then when I got to the crease, it didn't feel rushed, it didn't feel forced. I felt that flow and whip through the crease. Um and those two things hand in hand, the the technical work that me and Johnno did for my position at the crease and the strength of my action at the crease, plus the run-up stuff that we did with Raf is what got me back to playing for England again, which is something that I I say it to John occasionally, but I I'm eternally grateful for the work and dedication that Johnno put into me, especially through my entire career, but especially in that period, it was unbelievably selfless. And without Johnno, I'd have never ever been able to come back to to um be uh anywhere near the bowler that I that I was. So um, yeah, again, publicly, I I thank you very much for that, Johnno.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Well, but part part go on, sorry, sorry. You're a humble black, very, very humble black. And it's great. Do you know what? This is lovely because you know, coaches, you don't coach to get um, you know, to to get praise, but it's lovely when you know, as a coach, you put your you put your neck on the line, don't you? Because you're having to try and give ideas to someone, give some confidence, build some belief back into it. And I I know how hard you worked on that, John O, because you know, we were sort of constantly to and fro in a little bit on the phone about it. You know, my my job was to try and get Finney back, but I knew that you were the best person to do that because of your history that you had. Um, you know, and I I saw that piece of work going on because you were constantly sending me through the footage, and it was it was probably the best piece of repair work I've ever seen over a long period of time. So Finney, you know, ultimately, yes, you've had to do it, but I think Johnny, you have to take a lot of credit for you know, you'd have been having to soak up Finney's tantrums, and we've all seen his tantrums, you know, they're pretty epic, aren't they? So, you know, you you unfortunately, mate, you've got that for a year, and I sat back going, ooh when you used to come when you used to come for no no no no when you used to come for the odd session, I'd say gone dog.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

You'll go.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

No, he's all yours, he's all yours. But I tell you what, there's a couple of things that came from that, Finney. There's a couple of uh really important things that came for that from my point of view. So the first thing was is we kept that piece of footage that was always something that we referred back to because it was you at your natural best. It it also has changed the way I coach. If if ever I talk about coaching, now I talk about bandwidths, and you protect a bowler's own technique and method within that bandwidth. Now there's a bit of wriggle room within it, but ultimately it's theirs and they own it. And because your you know, your your technique changed reasonably quickly, didn't it? But we couldn't actually stop it from happening. So, you know, I I've sort of designed my own way now where I coach through bandwidth, so I never let a player, whether it's okay, so if if it's an arm, if it's a leg, it's a if it's a rhythm that changes, you know, we get into it really, really quickly. So we don't let it happen for a day. We don't let it well, a day it can happen, but hopefully not a week, hopefully not two weeks into a month, into something that's really tough to repair. And I remember all John O's notes, all of his footage that was coming in on you, the project. I've still got it here, sort of sat on my my iPad. I can see you know the dated stuff and how you did it, and it was a brilliant bit of work from both of you, and it and it's completely led to a change of how I coach all my bowlers now. So all of my bowlers are at knots, they have a you know a bandwidth that keeps them in their own hopefully sweet spot, you know. And and that's that's down to the you know, your your vulnerability, finney saying you needed help, and John O saying, yeah, well, I'm I'm the man to do that. So let's talk about the success of it.

The Road to Redemption: Overcoming Challenges

SPEAKER_04 56:38

All right, so you then get picked, don't you, in 2015 for the Ashes test against Australia Edge baston. So talk us through that day.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Yeah, I think the the emotions that I was feeling then were doubting because all the stuff that was written and and it was hard to stay away from it then, so it it'd be impossible for young players um to stay away from it now with social media, but um it was it it was on my mind that a lot of people had said that I they didn't think I would be ever play for England again. Um, and I used that as motivation in that time to to get back to that point um on those tough mornings. It was it was always like a no stuff you I'm not letting this defeat me. Um I'm gonna come back from this. But then when you find out you're playing that test match and you're stood there at the back of your mark and you've done all this work, there is that person on your shoulder that's like, uh, maybe maybe you're not quite up to it. Um and the thing that I'm most proud of uh in that time and in that moment when I got asked to bowl, but I think it was the eighth over on the first morning of that test, was that I allowed myself to commit to what all that work that we'd done. I trusted it. Um, and because we'd done so much work, um, and we because we built up my confidence slowly and gradually, like climbing a ladder, um, to get back into that test arena, um, I was able to take a deep breath and trust what I was doing. Um and the last ball of that first over, Steve Smith had got 200 the week before at Lourdes, um, Australia had won the test match. This was like a must-win in a home ashes series. Um and I bowled my sixth ball in it, nicked him off, and caught first slip, caught Alice to Cook. So Smith's gone for nothing first morning of the test. Um and if I could bottle like one moment in my life, outside of the moment my daughter was born 15 months ago, if I could bottle one moment in my life and and relive it and recount it, like I would give an infinite amount of money to be able to do that. That from the the the zip of it coming off my fingertips to seeing it kiss the edge and then go to cook at first slip, and then that celebration, that that is like the happiest moment of my life, and and that was as a result of all the work that we did.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

So, my my story on that day, Finney, was um, you know, we we uh we'd obviously worked, we talked about world's best, and one of the things we talked about was swing, right? And it was something that you had the ability to do, but had never used. Um, and for various different reasons, you felt more in control of the wobble seam. Uh, there were there were team sort of uh stuff that was going on as well that wanted you to bowl wobble seam. Um, but we said, okay, look, world's best, six foot seven, ninety miles an hour, swinging it away, can't be any better than that, right? So we did all that work on that control and the seam and the swing and everything. And I remember I was at Richmond in a second team game, uh, coaching a second team game, and I remember it coming up on the screen, and you're still at the top of your mark. And I there were a few lads in it. I'm just going, Finny, hold it, seam up, hold it, seam up. And that's all I'm saying. Hold it, seam up, hold it, seam up. And the first ball you bowled, it swung outside of something it might have been a lead, but it swung. And I was like, I was the most happy that I didn't care what happened after that all first five because I knew you'd let go, I knew that you'd trusted everything that you'd worked on, and the whole winter then and the year before was absolutely worth it because you trusted it. And the fact that you took wickets doing it, you know, that was that was the byproduct of it. But the fact that you had the the balls basically to stand there, hold its seam up and swing it. Uh, I thought it was amazing. It was so good, great to watch.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

It's fabulous. You you know, you know the this about me, John. Oh, I believe you know, I get the wobble seam, it's it's it's got a place, but the ultimate skill is to be able to swing a ball. That is the ultimate skill. And I can remember watching that day as well, and and uh how invested you were in it, and it was it was fabulous. Now, Finny, we've kept you for a long time. I want to I want to go now to just a little bit about uh coaching and you a couple of your thoughts. So I'm gonna sort of almost quick fire you a bit. So through through your career, do you think you were overcoached? Do you think your natural side was ever coached out of you, or were you pretty happy with how you've managed to sort of go through your career?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

Just a quick break in the episode. One of the things we're now offering through Fast Bowlers is personalized video analysis for fastbowlers. Players can send in side-on and rear-on footage of their action and receive a detailed annotated video report from coaches like Shiny and John with feedback on what they see technically areas to work on and practical recommendations or drills to help improve performance. That can either be done as a standalone coaching review or alongside a full payflow and biomechanics report through our partnership with Dynamic by combining detailed biomechanical profiling and world-class coaching insight. If you'd like to find out more, head to the website linked in the description.

Coaching Philosophy and the Role of Science

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

No, I was I was definitely happy with how I was coached. I I regret one moment of vulnerability that I allowed the wrong information in because you both know me well, and I'd be stubborn at times if I didn't believe what we were chatting about was the right thing for me. I had one moment of vulnerability where I let the wrong information in and it derailed me for a couple of years of my career. So um, on the whole, I would say I'm very happy with how I was coached, but it was my own weakness and vulnerability that let that happen as opposed to a coach's mistake, because coaches are there to give ideas to the players, they're there to provoke thought for the players, and it's up to the player, the best players, decipher that information and choose what works for them. So, um, yeah, long-winded answer to your quick fire question.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:46

No, no, that's that's a brilliant piece of advice, isn't it? It's a brilliant piece of advice for anyone there who who is being coached. Um, do you think science has a place in the modern fast bowler's life?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Yes, I do. I do. I I still am a bit old school in the sense that I believe that feel and working out situation whilst you're in them is vitally important to be a good, sustainable fast bowler. But I understand how science can help you be better informed about stuff, whether that's technique, whether that's information on opposition, whether that's information about yourself. I think that you can be really well supported by the right science.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

Yeah, okay. Now, if you could replay your career now, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Not go to that bloody short run up.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

And play me to T20.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Quick question, quick fire answer. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:50

Save the pain and go to T20. Um, alright, now this one's a really interesting one for everyone out there. You know, you're you're now you know a broadcaster, you see an awful lot of cricket, and we've got an exciting summer coming up. Who are the best England or potential England bowlers you have seen and why?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

I I look for guys in my kind of mould, like guys who are wicket takers, guys who can change games. Um so and we're lucky actually at the moment, we're blessed in this country with some really exciting young players. So the ones at the moment, I would say Sonny Baker started the season very well. But to me, from what I've watched of him, um Alfie Yogbourne at Somerset looks exciting, even though in that team it's gonna be hard for him to play loads of games. But so the left arm, left arm side of it, yeah. Yeah, he looks like someone to be very excited about. Nav Sharmer at Middlesex excites me as well because he has a quirky action, but he's played all three games for Middlesex so far this summer. Um, and looks to be someone who's gonna improve and improve. Takes wickets, doesn't he? Yeah, takes wickets, threatens good players. So there's a spell he bowled to Lava Shame. Was it last summer, John O, where you're watching it thinking, Oh, this is this is a 19-year-old rushing and having one of the world's best test batters in trouble. Um so so that those are the three off the very top of my head that that I think of, but that we're lucky in this country at the moment that that there are quite a few coming through.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

Yeah, nice. And it's it's I do you know what I love about that is you've not gone with the obvious, the guys uh out there, you've actually shown that you're watching some of the other the the sort of the the real proper county cricket that's going on out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

I'm a badger, you both know that.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

You are a badger, you are a badger. And here you go, Finney. You you've obviously got a you know a fantastic career building in broadcasting, but do you think you'll fancy coaching one day?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

I I like the idea of coaching, yeah. And I think that one of the things that kept me going as a player as long as it did, even though the That in reality, I could have retired in 2018 when I after I had my second knee surgery knowing that I would never be the bowler that I was before, which was immensely frustrating for me. Um, because you're constantly chasing this former version of yourself that's not obtainable because of your body. Um,

The Joy of Coaching and Mentoring Young Players

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

but the thing that gave me great joy was working with the younger players and seeing them develop around me at Middlesex firstly, and then down at Sussex for the last couple of years of my career. Um and the satisfaction that that gave me having talked to them in the morning of a game or the day before, and you're working on something, and then they go out into a game and and do it, and the look on their face when they're like it it worked, like that that is a feeling that uh as a coach I would imagine is is amazing. Um, and the feeling that you're helping guys fulfil their potential. So, so yeah, I would definitely be interested in coaching.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:58

You have the coaching gene, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

Yeah, again, I've I'm I I love the game, I like observing the game, um, and I like seeing people fulfil their potential because I uh if I'm honest, I took 250 odd international wickets. I don't think I fulfilled my potential. Um, and yeah, I I would want to help people do that themselves.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:22

Yeah, that's a great answer. Great answer. Vinny, we've had well over an hour of your time, and I know you're a very busy man. You've you've you probably want to see your daughter now, you've got some gold. Um, but mate, you've been so generous with your time, and we we really, really appreciate it. And um, I look forward to hearing your Dulcet Tones on Test match special in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

If you need a good kip, I'm your man, I'll I'll put you to sleep. I've got John O for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:55

Um, thanks, mate, and good luck.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Cheers, guys, take care, mate.