How a Background in Design Led Craig Turner to Restaurant Automation

Meet Craig Turner, Chief Operating Officer at Agape Automation. While he's deeply rooted in the restaurant world today, his background in design, strategy and brand has blazed a one-of-a-kind career path from retail to restaurant, with many stops in between. 

Join us as he sits down with Joanna Hollern to discuss his thoughts around retail, restaurant, the future of automation, and more.

For access to retail insights and perspectives that build better businesses, subscribe to The Gist to stay in the know.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi everybody, welcome back to another episode of Brands in Banter. My name is Joanna, and I'm super excited to sit here today with Craig Turner. Uh Craig, we've known each other for three or so years, but it's been a bit since we've gotten to chat. So yeah, I'm super excited for our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Of course. Um go ahead and introduce yourself just so our listeners can get to know you.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Sure thing. My name is Craig Turner. I'm a native of Columbus, Ohio, and uh I'm a buckeye. And uh so uh I'm the COO of Agape Automation. I'm also the executive director of the Edge Innovation Hub, which is an innovation space for the future of food, uh, which is where Agape Automation lives. Um and uh I have a design background, I have a uh creative um art background, and uh today I get to bring all those creative uh drives into creating the future of food and specifically uh automation in the food space with agape automation. So yeah, how's that?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

That's amazing, incredible. Uh kind of just pivoting off of that. I always like to know when somebody asks you what you do professionally, how do you describe that to somebody that might not know the ins and outs?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, great question. Um always contextual, I guess, but but um in this context, um I'm I'm working on the future of food. Yeah, bringing um technology into the uh food space, uh specifically in the pizza industry. Pizza is very big in my world. Yeah. And uh so uh we are working on uh developing automation equipment for the pizza industry, and um and this is all driven by uh uh Jim Grody, who is the founder of Agape Automation and the Edge Innovation Hub, and also uh the Grody Company.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Uh and also uh Donato's Pizza, which is a big deal if you're from central Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

It's the best pizza in Columbus.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

And it's also growing well beyond Columbus. Um it very uh very strong growth across the country. So Jim is a uh tenacious founder, uh an awesome person, an amazing innovator, um, somebody I've learned so much from and has really been a you know a huge influence in my development, uh not just um in work but in life. His values are as strong as any of his other characters. And um truly believes in developing uh technology for the future of the pizza industry, and he believes wholeheartedly in automation uh as a way to help um restaurants grow, restaurants be better, teams be better, and um and he really he wants to do that through the power of love, yeah, which is uh the word agape, which is a Greek word for unconditional love. Um so you put that with automation, we automate with love. And uh that also you know helps me answer that question that comes up about automation and jobs, um, because we're not interested in taking away anybody's job. That's not what it's about. Um, we're we're developing equipment that helps people do their jobs better and allows businesses to grow and uh take new uh pizza retail locations into communities where pizza's never been before and create new jobs in places where there weren't jobs before. So that's uh that's that's um a long answer to maybe a short question, but uh anywhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

For sure. No, and I think it's so interesting. I I know automation in the restaurant space has been kind of a sensitive topic for some people, but what restaurant operator do you know that's like I have all this extra free time in my day and I don't need to automate stuff, right? It's like there's always room for it, yeah, and it's just to continue to help streamline the process, make the employees there have an easier day-to-day um, you know, work environment. So it's definitely it's something that's necessary, but I know has been like people have to warm up to the idea of it. Yeah, uh, but I think the way that you guys do it and go about it is is so grounded in who you are as people, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I always say uh, you know, the first person who uh invented the wheel, there was somebody right next to him who was like, What do you need that wheel for?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

So true.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

We we got legs, yeah. Why do you need a wheel? And that will always be our interaction to new things, and um you know, people uh fear change for obvious reasons. Um it's part of our uh survival strategy to have that whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on here? Um but uh you know this uh change of automation is coming.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Um it it's it's not going to be stopped. Uh our thinking and back to our name is how do we do this in the best way for humanity? How do we automate with love in the best way for the pizza industry and for the future of food? And uh so that's that's the way we approach it. It's not just dollars and cents or um uh uh you know, thinking about it as um uh just pure efficiency. There's there's the human component, and um so we need to think about doing all those things the right way. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

For sure. Well, I'm eager to dive more into the roots of agape and what you guys are doing over there, but first I want to hear a little bit more about how you got here. So you said you're a buckeye.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Tell us a little bit about what made you decide to go to Ohio State and then what got you into kind of that design world.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, yeah. So um Ohio State is kind of a ubiquitous force in Columbus. Yeah. Um it's huge, uh, huge institution, huge university. Um, and I always felt comfortable in that kind of large scope, um, felt like I could find greater opportunities. And um from the time I started as an undergrad at Ohio State, it just kept kind of pulling me back into more opportunities. Um I went uh and did my master's in design research and development with the Department of Design at Ohio State and completed in 2017. And um so that was a you know an opportunity for me to go back uh to school while I was still working full-time, right? And um and kind of uh you know reset, refresh, and kind of double down on my desire to stay in a creative career. Um was super interested in brands and studied brands. It was really kind of the underlying uh context of my um thesis research. And um, you know, one of my philosophies going in was um I'm gonna take on every opportunity that I can. I'm gonna do as much work as I can that's creative and interesting. I'm not gonna say no unless I absolutely have to. And uh I'm I'm not gonna worry too much about uh what the what the uh salary or the rate is. It's just gonna be um, you know, I'm I'm gonna drive through passion during this time. And I had a belief that would help set me up for whatever was next. And so I uh long story short, there was a a lot of different things I did, obviously, over that two years. Um but I took on a project um pro bono with uh Stonewall Columbus. Yeah. And um Stonewall Columbus is an LGBTQ organization in um in Columbus, Ohio. And um so uh Stonewall Columbus uh was kind of refreshing their brand after 30 some years. And uh through that experience I met Tom Grody, who was a co-chair of the a campaign called the Stonewall Builds Campaign. Long story short, Tom and I worked together for six months together pro bono on this project for Stonewall Columbus, and really did some great work. And uh I'm still a volunteer with Stonewall Columbus. I'm going into my ninth or I think my ninth year of um volunteering for for Pride in June, uh already already ramping up. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, because it's it's uh it's it's when when the weather just starts to turn, it's time to start thinking about uh summertime fun. So, anyways, um so uh Tom and I worked together. Turned out that uh Tom was uh a veteran at um Donato's Pizza, had grown up in Donato's Pizza, uh, was Jim Grody's uh first son. And you know, he we we started a business together to help develop uh brands and tell brand stories. And um so uh here comes uh Jim Grody with an interest in building the Edge Innovation Hub, um, which is a uh a building on the campus with Donato's Pizza and the Grody Company in Gehana, Ohio. And um Jim is uh fired up about innovation, but just has a complete open space about what this innovation um is is going to lead to. Um and uh so you know I I should have known that uh it would lead to uh automation and uh and and the future of food because uh Jim's always been interested in automation. He started the Grody company out of a machine called the Peppomatic, which he developed in the early 70s to slice and apply pepperoni, which really took off in the frozen food industry, and um uh has created uh uh an amazing 50-year business that's global at this point, um uh with with with a lot more than um uh uh pizza automation, they do uh um sandwich applications and they do slicing um machines. So uh some really interesting stuff made right here in central Ohio that uh can be found all over all over the world in in the food processing um plants. So if you've ever had a baby carrot, yeah, uh there's there's a uh there's machines that take you know the the carrots that aren't able to be used or sold in normal uh um uh uh retail um groceries, and they take those carrots and put them into a machine that's made by the Grody Company, and they kind of whittle them down and shine them up and turn them into baby carrots. So that's one of the many things that Grody Company does.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

So I did not know that piece of it. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, there's all kinds of of little amazing tidbits about the um behind the scenes of of uh food processing. Yeah. Um, you know, they uh I always make the distinction between ultra-processed and processing. Pretty much everything we eat is processed in in some way. It goes from wherever it comes from to whatever it is. Um and so just an example of you know, grow a carrot and what do you do with it now? Well, you process it into something that can be some baby carrots or or whatever it is, so or you know, slicing and peeling potatoes, all these different things. So um, so anyways, that's uh that I I know I got right back to agape automation and gym, which happens a lot, but um but before my time at um uh in my MFA, my my master's degree at Ohio State, I studied design as well with the Department of Design, and uh, you know, really had a great career for almost 10 years as a designer, um, always gravitating towards brands, always was interested in, you know, kind of the the bits and bytes that make the story, and um, you know, kind of taking messages and simplifying them down to their their core and um designing brands around that. So um, you know, I still design. Uh uh it's hard to get away from designing. Uh there's always opportunities to do that for my business. Um, you know, small, we're we're a small group, and and so everybody gets to do a little bit of everything. And uh so I I still love to design and uh still develop uh the brands that that we work on and and the the products um product lines that we develop. And uh so yeah, it's been a good uh good good and very interesting road. Yeah. Um, which doesn't look connected maybe from the outside, but very much uh is is connected to uh um designing, developing brands, and uh creative execution uh that's now going into the future of food.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah. So you mentioned a little bit when you were at Ohio State, you were studying brands.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Was it always restaurant and retail for you, or were you interested in other things and you just kind of went down this path that is now very restaurant retail heavy? Yeah. Um or was that always an interest of yours?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, you know, I as I look back, it is interesting that there is a a thread of food that has always run through everything that I've done. Yeah. I've I've always been very interested in uh small brands, and I think that's just because there's so much opportunity to create. You're not just maintaining and tweaking um existing brands, but you're you know, literally creating from nothing. So I was always interested in that part of it, um, which you know has has um uh you know created an opportunity or or at least an alignment of my interest when it came to agape automation and the edge innovation hub, we were starting from nothing.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

And and so uh so that was very exciting. It was a very energized time when we were first starting in 2019, the Edge Innovation Hub, and then um, you know, uh almost immediately agape automation um started out of that. So um, so yeah, I not necessarily, it's not like I have to work in food or I I um need to be in food retail, yeah. But somehow it always keeps coming back.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

It is it is funny how that works, right? Like I uh I worked retail, that was my first job when I could get a job, and here I am. I've you know kind of been in the restaurant and retail industry to some extent, um, and now pretty retail heavy, but it it's interesting how you find your way back into these industries that you've had roots in.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Um maybe it's a comfort thing, or maybe it just is because that's what you're meant to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

But something, something in the universe, uh yeah, keeps pulling you back in. Yeah, yeah. It's hard, it's hard to tell, but yeah, there is there seems to be a thread there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Um, so walk me back a little bit. You went to Ohio State and you um I know we're in creative for um e-retailing. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your time there and kind of when in your timeline was that? That was obviously before Edge and Agape.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, um, so e-retailing, that's going way, way back. That was um right in the exciting years around 2008 when when uh um economic uh issues were were uh big part of the story. Um but uh that that came after my um undergrad uh design degree and uh very interesting small local brand.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Um that was you know basically had a a website that allowed people to go in and create their own t-shirts. If you've seen, you know, like the um bridal party t-shirts or you know, these type of things. Um and the you know this little niche market that that um uh that that was kind of a great opportunity. And um uh so you know that that was uh one of my first first jobs out of when when I first became a designer. And uh, you know, I was able to become creative director at there and and that was very exciting because I was um real again able to create and um and kind of uh build this brand. So yeah, yeah, that was that was the the story there.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Incredible, I love that. After e-retailing, you landed at L brands or was there okay L Brands after Columbus Staple there. Yeah, oh yeah. Um and were you there across all brands or did you have one specific staple?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, right I worked with uh International, okay. Yeah, which was very uh very interesting little piece of L Brands because there was really many uh all the brands together in one. And you know, uh it was this kind of uh interesting uh uh intersection of uh retail locations and airports, yeah. And they just were selling uh perfumes like crazy, so you know that was a big part of the business. Um, but it was um you know the um the all all all the different portfolio brands, Adele brands, um, coming together in in international, including Licenza and um uh Bath and Body Works and Victoria's Secrets.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

The you mentioned the airport model, that's it's always been so fascinating to me having retail embedded in a space like an airport until I find myself like trapped in an airport, and then I'm like, well, what do you do? You know, so it's like all of a sudden there it makes sense when you're not hustling through to get to your next destination.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

But yeah, yeah. You know, it's it's funny, I it just made me think that I was just listening to this piece. Um and and the one of the things that that stuck out to me was um you know, airports, they've they are retail environments in themselves. Oh, for sure. And they have uh an incentive to not just make your time in an airport a very efficient and you know, A to B uh proposition. It's kind of like how about we let them hang around for a half hour, 45 minutes, maybe even an hour and a half. They'll probably be hungry. Yeah, they might uh see something shining in this beautiful lighting here and and want to buy that. They're on vacation. Yep. So uh uh or they don't have what they usually have and they need something, so it's like big opportunity. So kind of interesting how you know, kind of these captive environments um create captivity.

unknown 21:15

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And uh so so, anyways, um, yeah, think about that next time we're in airports. Uh you know, how much of this how how much are we of our time here is because somebody's got something to sell us here. So uh an interesting thought. Um so, anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, you're turning my brain on for the next time I uh travel. I'm gonna have my guard up in the airport. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Me too, me too. Yeah, I I was not thinking about this very much before. But uh yeah, no, there's no place quite like airports, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

You also you taught design thinking at Ohio State.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

That's a pretty full circle moment. You obviously went to Ohio State, studied there. So tell us a little bit about that journey.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, yeah. Um, really uh teaching was one of the great experiences. experiences in my life and I would love to get back to it someday. I think that's that might be part of my full circle. But I taught um six semesters at Ohio State and I started uh during my master's degree studies and uh and then did a few semesters afterward. And uh you know I I think that uh on a on a very practical level um I learned that you know teaching is a lot like giving a performance and um I would suggest that anybody who wants to be uh more comfortable presenting more comfortable um you know really with the subject matter that they're interested in if they get the opportunity to teach that go for it. Yeah um somebody said once you know if you want to learn teach and it it really that I I learned what that meant while while I was teaching um because you you have to know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Oh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

And to to get to the depth of that knowledge you you really understand that through teaching and being challenged um uh hopefully you're challenged uh by by students so um yeah I I uh also learned a lot about design and and you know back to you know the kind of the core of design thinking which is the user experience and understanding researching and uh developing uh design through understanding the unit the user's experience yeah that has come uh right back to where I am right now um because I uh am on a team that develops automation equipment for the pizza industry and to to develop a piece of equipment for the pizza industry you have to test that equipment yeah in the pizza industry which means you need to have a pizza shop and you need to uh get that equipment in there and uh amazingly enough I have that ability uh because of Jim Grody and and uh and Donato's pizza so um it it's really um you know a big opportunity uh um that that I learned through teaching uh of um you know how to really focus on what the user is saying how to understand feedback how to ask follow-up questions how to design research studies all these different things I could go on and on but um yeah it all it all really came together with design thinking and and the methodologies around uh that study so that's amazing yeah and and just the the other thing was just interacting with students yeah and and you know back to that idea of performance you know there wasn't time along with everything else going on I was still doing my still working full time doing my master's degree and teaching and so I'm uh there's not time to sit down and study the lesson plan. No it's kind of like um you know you you have to be quick on your feet.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So that was an amazing training in uh walking in delivering and um being confident in doing that. So yeah I great experience and I recommend it to anybody. Find a way to teach find somebody to mentor. Yeah um stay open um to those kind of opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Definitely you learn a lot from the way other people receive information too I think yeah absolutely people are different learners and they're different communicators and so having to diversify the way that you think about that and that it's not just the way that you receive information I think is important and it I think opens your eyes to like different ways that you can communicate and educate people on certain things. So yeah I love that yeah absolutely well that brings us to present day and I still use the same work bag that I've used for the last three years. So every day I have my agape coin yeah with me. So tell me a little bit about the coin and the meaning there's three different messages on here.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah yeah I I've got mine in my pocket I do every day carry it with me this is really you know back to Jim Grody um and his values um you know he he really started his businesses with um with with the ideas on this coin when I first um met Jim he always talked about values he talked about what values meant in business and uh so you know it was it was a lot uh coming at me we actually worked together on on helping uh to kind of take those uh a lot of those messages and and how to get it down on paper and um so uh you know up comes my design and brand training taking all these little bits and bytes of information and uh kind of bringing it down into a message that can be delivered and that really was was um the the the outcome of of these three points on the on the coin which are uh lead with love uh the golden rule or treating others like you'd want to be treated and do the right thing and and it's kind of a simple philosophy but simple is good yeah and um you know if you can lead with love and you can treat others like you'd want to be treated and you can do the right thing um not only are you going to do well in business I think but um but you're gonna do pretty pretty well at life so so that's kind of that's kind of how we look at it. Makes an easy value system. Yeah and um and you know it doesn't take the business out of it we're still we're still here to uh to make money and to grow our business but uh there's absolutely no reason we can't do that in a good positive way and um uh so that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah yeah I think the impactful thing too with this is the amount of people in my network that I've seen like spread this on LinkedIn, you know, and just share that you know they've kind of been brought into the the purpose and have been able to hear your guys's mission and vision and I think that's really impactful. And just having something physical too I think is such a cool way to bring yourself back to your roots and understand that these are the three pillars that you guys kind of live and breathe each day both probably in your personal life but also in in business.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

So that's that's really uh nice to hear um I uh there's thousands of these out yeah um we actually make these with the grody company next door um they have all kinds of sheet metal and and uh these are stainless steel and uh they they make them for us and uh um they're they're out there and and they they keep people keep requesting them and we keep sending them out and um you know when we started this pr project it wasn't a project yeah it was just um I just uh had an idea to make a coin and so so we did we we we we uh 3D printed a bunch of versions and um and then uh was talking with Bob Grody who's the CEO of the Grody company and and Jim's nephew and uh he said you know we could make those over next door in in stainless steel and so okay well let's let's try that yeah and and then you know the next thing you know here here it is in my in my pocket years later and and in a lot of other people's pockets and uh so I think that kind of comes back to make makes me think of just try things you know it's a form of innovation to just uh um instead of seeing the limitations see the opportunities and um and so it's kind of a kind of a cool story that it's not for me especially that it's not it wasn't like a a project that or you know it wasn't uh I didn't get a uh spec sheet on it it just happened and here it is it's uh um something that's been very very special and impactful in my life and and hopefully uh impacts a lot of other people and reminds them of who they are and what they can be so it was yeah I think it absolutely does so I think you're you're nailing it there.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah great thanks um let's pivot a little bit and chat kind of about the intersection of retail and restaurant and these two industries that I think have some commonality behind them. So let's let's talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah yeah well um ro retail um need a thing go to a place buy a thing yeah I guess you could probably there's probably a way to simplify that down even further but um so whether it's you know a pair of shoes uh um uh a a sweatshirt or or a pizza um you know there's there there's a place you can go to get those things yeah and and they're all they're all retail so um yeah I think that you know some of the uh some of the ideas of retail uh are are completely similar whether you're talking about a quick service restaurant or or um you know a a place you go a big box store or whatever and um you know creating an environment where uh you you feel like you uh are interested in buying something yeah obviously we're thinking about this um and uh you know lighting uh presentation smells oh yeah um you know interesting that you know a lot of scent branding happens in in retail locations well scent branding happens in uh quick service restaurants as well and uh if you've ever hung around a a pizza shop um there's some amazing smells uh especially near the oven so um so you know there's there's uh there's a lot going on all all the senses are engaged when you're when you're uh entering into uh a pizza shop so yeah I think that's the scent component is so interesting and I've always said you know restaurant has it has it made when it comes to scent you know if you walk into a pizza shop and you're like craving this pizza you're excited that's gonna be like the first thing that probably hits you the first scent scent that is engaged um and with retail it's interesting that a lot of you know more specialty retailers have leaned into that and really tried to find their identity with scent yeah um because they have you know obviously the immediate sight of seeing clothing or whatever product they're shopping for and then they can touch it and um all of that but the scent component is is fascinating and there's so many retailers that I feel like do it really well and obviously in the restaurant industry QSRs are you know that's just a built-in piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah um and it's it's such a brand recognizable thing a lot of the time too if you're like really familiar with a Donato's pizza or another pizza shop you're gonna recognize that scent and be able to have a connection to it.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah absolutely um you you're making me think of a quick story I I was in Seattle in the pike market and there was this little bakery. I was not about to go into this bakery because I you know it it was a trap it's it's a trap but I would they have this beautiful window um right you know out uh people walking by and through the window is the kind of the the bakery line so there you know there's flour all over the table and uh bread is being kneaded and pastries are being woven and there's this fan above uh an exhaust fan above the window and the smell of the pastries baking and the sugars melting and all of the the icings and the this and the that's and it is just pouring down on the sidewalk and onto me and onto the people that are watching and I'm thinking wow I don't know if this is a happy accident. It's not it's I I to me they they're very strategic. Yeah um and great like what a what an amazing uh um um execution uh you know they they nailed it and um so you know it's kind of that that that brings back to this idea behind brands of how do we take the essence of of what we are that is good and just give people that you know and yeah it's like the the the pastry that I could have walked in and and bought um that's that's the goal but to get there um what they have that's really great and really accessible are the smells that are coming out of their their ovens and to find a way to they figured out how to bring that right out to the point of contact which isn't even inside uh where they're paying for or what they're paying for uh as far as a retail space um but uh yeah so how do we take how do we take what we do that is good and and give that to the people yeah um so yeah it's all facilitating that experience and making the experience inviting so that people that maybe didn't have it on their radar are like I have to go in here because this looks like a place that I have to check out or it's reminds me of XY and Z.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

That that experience component is is really important.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Awesome. Well now let's chat a little bit about some things that restaurants can maybe learn from traditional retailers and vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Is there do you see anything that retailers are doing really well that could be brought into restaurants or the other way around yeah I you know um from from the perspective of what I'm working on right now you know we're we're back in the kitchen we're really aiding the the um the store teams to just help them do their jobs better. But obviously um you know there's all kinds of opportunities around um food safety around um you know efficiency to help get somebody exactly what they ordered yeah and so that's that's definitely a piece of what we're what we're doing it's not just speed it's accuracy um and uh so so there's all those little things you know like connecting the dots in the background um I I mean it's such a there's so many things um I I mean creating just creating a beautiful experience I I don't know that people uh you know people in brands talk about that all the time but but you know the the customers I don't know that they think about like well I need a new set of tires for my car so I'm I I'm expecting a beautiful experience yeah uh to do that typically not but how amazing would it be if it was a beautiful experience it it and and it could be yeah it could be um so yeah it's a it's a lot about uh what we expect and what our standards are and um and that's what that's what folks are or brand builders are trying to deliver um or businesses are are trying to sell um so I think uh you know um back to what I'm what I'm doing um I I really believe you know it that in automation of uh automation of pizza making it is not uh you know back to the job thing it is not about uh reducing the amount of jobs in the store it is about how do we compete in this market to create the best working environment for the best folks who will want to come and work here. Yeah that's a big deal because there's all these changes going on all the time and we saw it through um you know the last five years or uh six years I guess um it's been that long since the pandemic isn't it so so uh it's not yeah so we we just saw so much change in that time period so much um you know uh uh especially around food retail it was a really challenging time oh yeah and um you know there's still the case where uh somebody can offer uh you know a quarter more per hour and somebody will leave a job to go take that other job so there's all these things happening how how do we create um work experiences um that are um not just better for the customer which ultimately is gonna happen too but how how can we create a great work experience that would make somebody want to work here and keep coming back because that's the other thing turnover is is so high and so having an opportunity um to keep somebody in a job uh of any retail job um is such a powerful thing and such a efficient um um business uh opportunity so uh what I'm trying to do with my team is to create uh automation machines that make a team member's life easier make that team a better team make that store a better store make that business a better business and little by little and piece by piece we keep getting a little better and better that's the goal yeah it's it's uh never moves as fast as we'd like to um because we can we can see it can't we we can see the the A to Z but there's all those other steps so um so anyways um yeah that's that's what I'm really focused on um and I think there's a there's a trickle down effect from a great a great team in a restaurant. Oh yeah um and uh and you know you hear so many stories about um you know restaurants that have grown too fast because they lose that that kind of core fundamental that uh that the owner or the founder brought um that was kind of holding it all together like a big ball of glue and um and then you know the expansion happens and that original energy spreads and it kind of loses its center loses its soul and then um and then uh can't can't figure out how to replicate it so we're you know in addition to creating a great experience for a team we're we're trying to help create a stronger system yeah that can grow and automation equipment is a big part of that system um a lot of technology that's happening right now whether it's AI technology around training um new store associates or um you know uh technology uh software systems that allow for better organization of orders and deliveries um you know all these all these little pieces are uh coming together to to create a better experience so yeah and I mean I think that's so important too because truly the root and the heart of the experience that customers are going to get whether it's at a retail location or a restaurant is coming from that team of employees.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Yeah and so empowering them and making sure that they're not only bought in but that they're not experiencing like this overwhelming burnout or that they feel like they can actually function in their job is so important. Yeah. Because I know I've been in retail positions before where it just feels like it's it continues to stack up on you. And I worked at a beautiful specialty retailer that was just truly a great experience because people enjoyed coming in and that made me enjoy like continuing to give them great service. Yeah whereas sometimes when you work in spaces that don't foster that as much it's a little bit harder to do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

So yeah yeah yeah that's like um it's like how we all want to live we we all want to live in in beautiful places inspire us and make us feel uh whatever feelings we're going for. Yeah. And uh so it's it's not always um i it's a hard job.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Like you said, the stacking up is it's uh it's a very, very hard job. I have a lot of compassion for um the store teams that that I work with. So yeah, we're we're trying to love them and understand them and understand how to help them. And uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Alright so we've talked a lot about automation. Let's chat a little bit about this coined term of a smart kitchen and what that kind of means for the restaurant industry right now.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah yeah so um you know we're we're building the smart kitchens of the future um and uh really the the core of it is um using technology to um create better spaces again back to you know better teams uh better businesses better kitchens and uh so there's just so much opportunity around technology um ai is a whole other wave that's that everybody's talking about that obviously has implications um and uh we're seeing a lot in the training space right now um because uh you know the same kind of problem that we all understand uh you've got a a manager in in a store or a retail location who's very busy yeah and then you've got a new employee and that new employee is looking to the manager to uh answer a question that could be as simple as um where's the restroom and I'll I'll tell a quick story about that actually um and this this might help illuminate the point um I I heard a story about somebody and this was some years ago but I heard a story about a person who uh started working at a at a restaurant and um that person uh disappeared and uh around noon or so the the store manager called to find out where they went and if they were okay. Yeah and the person said uh yeah I I got there this morning and nobody told me where the restroom was and I couldn't find the restroom and I really had to use the restroom so I just left and that person never came back and never came back to work. Now that's probably not a situation that I would find myself in. Yeah but this this was a young person right somebody who maybe had never had a job before again like compassion let's think about where they're coming from and meeting them where they are um that's a you know a shock but also illuminates kind of an opportunity um how do we use technology to answer that question so that that that person doesn't leave because they're confused. Right and um what kind of tools can we build uh for that person uh and that's just one little piece there's so many different ways like imagine being a customer and not understanding uh where your order is or why uh nobody's giving you what you ordered at the time they promised you were gonna get it yeah how do we uh use technology to uh use the tools that we have a smartphone right uh to to uh alert that customer or let them know exactly what's happening with their order right it's very appreciated I I love it when I'm when I'm uh in on the process of what's happening with uh with my money or with with uh with my uh you know order of what whatever that means so uh so many opportunities and um you know there's so many different ways it could be a headset that that a uh new associate wears that they're talking to a an AI agent to allow them to uh ask questions and get those answers in real time um uh you know that's obviously something that was a a foggy dream five years ago and here we are it's it's uh it's happening yeah so uh these things are all gonna be bumpy for a while there's there's gonna be uh a lot of a lot of things that need to be worked out um but it's going to happen and uh the only way to get there is to to start trying so so we're we're building we're building uh that kind of technology and um and and everybody's gonna have some version of it and I I hope that it continues to make experiences better and better in a in a more and more complicated world. Yeah and uh I I think that's the way it'll go.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yeah things things kind of you know back to the wheel uh things have gotten better yeah we have we have a lot more opportunities um how we feel about it and and how we compare it to uh other things is a whole other story but but um there's there's so many so many uh possibilities yeah that story you say about that employee that just left is so like that just like hits you because you're like that's why like that's such a simple thing so simple and to have that question be unanswered is is pretty crazy but finding ways to to streamline that and and make it better for the people that are working in the business every day is is important.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Yeah absolutely and when you you know if you've worked in um a real fast paced environment um where the phone's ringing and you know people are yelling for this and yelling for that and and the things stack up like you like you mentioned um it it it can be very overwhelming especially when you're new yeah and you haven't had time for your brain to organize all these things um so that you can um make uh kind of rational steps through complex situations so um you know we can we can use technology to help simplify that process for people that are that are new and that is just a it's one thing I'm kind of focused on um uh in right now but that you know that that first week is so pivotal oh yeah uh for a retail associate it is um it's a make or break and there's so much um so much attrition in in that short time period if you can keep somebody for just that first week um the statistics are that they're gonna stay for um much longer and and be very valuable to the business and um and especially that not have to repeat the resources to continuously bring in new folks so a lot of opportunity yeah a lot of opportunity there to make uh make make kitchens uh in my case a better place so yeah that's incredible so tell me a little bit to um you know you're obviously pretty focused on the pizza space what does that look like you know in the next five or so years do you see yourself you know pushing into other areas of food and restaurant or do you see kind of pizza staying that main focus? Yeah I I could see it going both ways I I really think that we'll stay focused on pizza because of the same reason we've we've started our focus in pizza we have such an incredible knowledge base in pizza and um our from our founder Jim to to Tom Grody um who who's worked in the pizza industry for so long um uh as an operator and that's that's really um that's that's really been a a core distinction of of um agape automation um because we have that operational view um jim grody started donato's when he was 19 years old and um he uh you know thinks like an operator he thinks about the mom and pop shops and uh and he wants to you know we're we're creating uh we're creating equipment for the industry at large and he thinks about those mom and pop shops and how they support their communities and and part of his value system part of Jim's value system is uh kind of a you know uh tide raises all the boats um you know he thinks if people are having good pizza experiences out there and thinking about pizza well that's good for donados too that's that's just the way he that's the way he thinks so um and and I'm I'm with him I believe it and uh so you know um we have this incredible operational knowledge um hundreds of years of of uh you know combined knowledge in the space and that specialized knowledge is is such a big deal when you're trying to create new things um like the smart saucer and the smart pep and the smart cheeser that we're working on these these individual pieces of equipment that um do individual processes that help the store associate do their job a little better a little faster um when we first started out around 2019 we saw um the new kind of uh startups entering the automation space specifically in pizza yeah the the concept was like let's put it all in one box let's put the you know you put in a pizza and out comes a finished pizza with the sauce and the cheese and the pepperoni and the toppings on it that makes that made sense to me back then it's like yeah that would be great yeah um and then you've got this you know$100,000 machine that's as big as half of this room that doesn't fit into an existing pizza location and it doesn't work because there is so much uh so much nuance from sauce to sauce to cheese to cheese um there are there is so many little moving pieces um that it's it's very hard uh to make it all work in the same box and uh what looks very simple or the idea is very simple is very complex. So um you know my my leadership was right on it they saw that and they were like we you can't bring in this ginormous uh machine that overwhelms the budget of a of a individual operation and expect this to work if we can break it into smaller pieces uh the smart saucer the smart cheeser the smart uh pep you can you can do it and so uh and that's what we found is uh the success was through simplifying um still an incredible amount of development because we still have all the fine tuning um but at least we have a better chance with a small modular tabletop piece of equipment right that um that that can that can help uh the team make a pizza better and faster specific function too like that's then you can almost pinpoint you know where are we seeing the most efficiency and in the line if it's the sauce or the the pepperoni or what what might it be. Yeah sure thing yeah yeah so that's that that's kind of a an example of why uh that operational knowledge in the pizza space is so important. Yeah and I bel really believe in it. I also wouldn't be surprised if the technology that we develop has application in other uh parts of the retail restaurant space um I that would be great. Yeah maybe we'll get there someday we'll see yeah um but uh um we're always we're always uh thinking about possibilities we're innovators at at heart and um we have a you know luckily we have a great manufacturing partner uh that that um helps us commercialize um uh because you know it's easy to float away with innovation uh the the shiny object uh ooh look we could do that too you know this this kind of thing so um it's uh it's you know it it takes a lot of discipline on on top of you have to be able to balance that innovation mindset with with uh with with the discipline to to finish so yeah yeah I'll tell you I was at uh the pizza expo here in Columbus in like October and there is a ton of innovation and a ton going on in the industry so it's that particular segment of the restaurant industry I think will continue to just move up and and we'll see more innovation and more interesting things happening which is really exciting.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

And it's cool to know that that innovation is happening here in Columbus.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Absolutely yeah yeah awesome well before we close out today anything else you want to tell talk about tell us about so many things probably yeah I think um I think just as a as kind of a core message um you know as I think about my my kind of uh path and my journey it it kind of goes back to just uh doing more and and not saying uh not saying no um uh always saying yes until you until you can't um and I I know that's kind of in opposition to some of the self-care messages of um you know take don't overextend yourself and take it easy but um but you know I I really believe that that uh that the more energy that that people can put out in the direction of their interest and and uh in in the in the directions that they love um you know that that kind of energy comes back um in in very positive ways yeah so yeah so I I encourage folks to do more and um yeah yeah that's all I got I guess awesome well thank you so much for joining us today on Brands and Banter we loved just learning more about everything going on in the pizza industry and automation more about your background um but thank you so much for for joining us and thank you all for tuning in uh we'll see you guys next time yeah thank you great to be here really appreciate it thanks yeah