Sick and Tired
Empowering women during life’s transitions.
Sick and Tired
Episode 7: Sick and Tired-Stress Fatigue with Dr. Mary Nickson
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Identifying, naming, and overcoming the stress in our lives.
#drjanbell #healingjourney #youareenough #StressFatigueSickandTired
Introducing Dr. Jan, speaker, healing coach, podcast leader, educator, Dr. Jan Bell, the advocate for the sick and tired. Hi, I'm Dr. Janet Bell and welcome to the Sick and Tired Podcast. We are so happy that you have decided to join us today. This podcast is about empowering, uh, inspiring, and just actually starting a healing journey with women all over the world. And we are going to specifically focus in on women 40, 50, 60, 70 years old. Why? Because I am one of those persons. And the one thing that I realized is that in my in my time of my life transitions, and I've had many of them, uh, um caregiving, death, grief, uh, divorce, all of this I have looked uh for um things to talk about, things to read. And it's very there may be a few uh areas and few things that I can read about. I've read about late uh divorces, but it's usually about um a researcher or someone putting together a book about uh those things instead of having the actual person do it. Well, I am the actual person, I'm the one who's going through the life's transitions, and this podcast is about me talking to you, having raw conversations because I'm one of I am one of you and you are one of me. So today we're gonna talk about uh fatigue, we're gonna talk about stress fatigue. I think that as we begin this podcast, that we as women need to understand what that really means. Now we can say it, but do we believe it? Do we understand what it is? And I have a wonderful friend that's here, one of one of my best friends that that I can have in this area of counseling and therapy, and her name is Dr. Um Mary, Dr. Mary Nixon will be joining us today in this discussion about uh stress fatigue. So, welcome, Dr. Nixon. We're so happy that you're a part of it, and I am so happy that you're a part of it as well. So I'm gonna let you tell everybody who you are.
SPEAKER_04Okay, that's great. Thank you for having me. Uh I am Mary Nixon, I'm a licensed Dr. Mary Nixon, a licensed psychologist, a licensed professional counselor, and a licensed specialist in school psychology. And so I have worked in the field of providing mental health services for over 30 years in a variety of settings. Um, as I mentioned, as a school psychologist, I've worked not only at a university, but I've worked in public schools with students who uh have special needs. I've also worked uh in agencies with families that are coming in as a result of trauma. I've worked as um as a psychologist and a mental health provider in um the VA hospital. And so um I come to you today with experience in a variety of settings.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you do. Yes, you do. And I'm so glad that you have decided to come and talk to us women about um stress the tea because you've seen it. You've seen a lot of you've seen it in your in your practices as well. So we're so happy that we're gonna start this conversation because the whole um the whole idea, the whole purpose of this podcast is for us as women to identify um what it means to have um stress, fatigue in our lives. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dr. Nixon, for being here with us. And so let's just just begin to talk about. Um, you know, as women, we tend to stress out.
SPEAKER_04That's right. That's right. Thank you, Dr. Danville. I am so delighted to be here uh to have this conversation with you today. And I hope that there are a number of people, if they get a chance to see this, that will be certainly helped by uh our discussion today. And so um you reached out and we decided that we were going to talk about stress fatigue. Stress fatigue, and I I got I received that from you, and I thought, yeah, that's that seems to be a common kind of issue that uh you know many of the clients and patients that I see, they're dealing with that because we live in a pretty stressful world. Stress fatigue, though, was a term that came about in 2020 as we were going through the pandemic. And so that was a really difficult time for everybody, you know. So, in addition to what other stressors people might have been taking on, we had the stress of the pandemic, and as a result of that, uh, we not only maintained all of those stressors as we've come out of the pandemic, and so now it's just you know kind of exploded because things have changed since then. As a matter of fact, the American Psychological Association put forth some information in 2020 that said two of three Americans in this in this country are you know, I don't want to say suffering, but having to deal with stress. Yeah, stress, having to deal with stress. And um the definition that they give for stress fatigue is that it's exhaustion related to being stressed, persistent, persistent tiredness. So how many people have you talked to uh just casually and they'll say, I'm just too tired. I'm just tired, I'm exhausted, yeah, and it's just a weariness that we take on, um, you know, in addition to being burnout, whatever that is, in terms of your maybe your professional and work uh situation, and it affects us physically, mentally, and emotionally. Yes. So um many of the clients that I see come in with a specific situational kind of issue, but you know, on top of that is this whole issue of stress.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the stress. You know, I'm very clear and very open about um me um going to, I'm I go to a therapist, I talk to a therapist, and and it's uh it's amazing how you you guys know when we're talking and you are listening, that we say things that you hear that we don't even know, we don't even see, we don't even think about it. And I know that so many times that I'm going in and I'm talking, and you know, very very clearly uh pointed out, therapists pointed out that you're stressed out, you know, you're you know, you're you're you're burnt out. How how often do you have patients coming in telling you about these situations that you're talking about? And they never really put anything, they never really say that it's it's fatigue, it's it's stress fatigue, it's but we but we are very good about saying how tired we are and you know how exhausted we are, and we just go to bed and get up, and we never really say that it is fatigue.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes, well, let me just say that 75%. I have a small practice, but 75%, 75 to 80 percent of the people I see are women, yes, and the men that I see they are typically coming to therapy because their significant other, which is generally a female, is requesting that they come and do some counseling, either because of the work situation, uh, the men are coming because of you know, do you having to deal with anger management? The women, on the other hand, are like I said, coming because a lot of them are tired. And in in terms of the way um I generally see it, it is a it is a persistent kind of depression. Yeah. Stress fatigue is is either a precursor or it goes along with a kind of low-grade depression where people just don't have the energy, don't have the energy to do some of the things that used to bring them pleasure, yeah. Don't have the energy to really sometimes even care for themselves. So uh when women primarily come in and are seeking support, that's another issue. Seeking support for what it is that they're going through at the time. Um, as a therapist, I'm looking to, you know, hear if there's any of any patterns. I'm looking to uh determine, you know, kind of if there are some ways that the person can really think about what it is that's happening to them differently so that they won't be in so much distress or you know, really will willing to, you know, listen in a way that might bring about some kind of solutions.
SPEAKER_00So how when let me come to you? What what are what are usually the reasons that come and you find the stress uh a part of their reasoning? Because I know that when I went, I didn't go to find out that I was stressed out. I went to, you know, I went for grief counseling and I and I found that whole other you know, a whole other side of me that um that I would not have known about unless I I went to you, um, you know, therapist. Yes. So, you know, for me it was the death of my mom. You know, and in in in that conversation, in that therapy session, well, it was more than one therapy session, it came out that I was grieving also my marriage. Yes, right, yes. So, so how do we wind up in your office?
SPEAKER_04Yes, generally, you know, grief uh is is a is an issue that a lot of people are having to deal with, not just grief from the loss of a loved one, but grief from loss of job, grief from loss of friendships, grief from loss of support. And so um a lot of times because of different changes that might be taking place in a woman's life, there's a certain amount of grief, there's a certain amount of loss that goes along with that, that that they're looking for um some support in terms of how they can deal with that, how they can deal with it emotionally and mentally. And so um I would say also that uh a lot of times the women that I see there's a lot of grief over, you mentioned, you know, kind of changes in relationships, you know, they they either are in a relationship that they you know like and it's changing, or that they think is changing, or they are in a relationship where they're not being respected. And in a lot of cases, um, I do I have had situations they're in relationships where they're being you know emotionally and sometimes physically abused. Yes, ma'am. So it is helping or assisting through talk therapy, um, the client to come to a realization of what is the word. That's a word yeah, come to a realization of what it is that's really kind of the source of the stress or the source of whatever it you know that they that's causing them to you know not feel good about themselves and to you know kind of stress over you know.
SPEAKER_00So the realization piece, um, when you bring that up when they realize um something that they were covering up, and all of a sudden, you know, you open up and say, Hey, you know, this is what's going on. Yes, do you see that we are afraid to um to acknowledge? Oh yes. You know in a lot of instances. And why is it that you think that women have that issue of acknowledging what is real and alive?
SPEAKER_04Well, personally, I think that it has to do with um our society um saying that this is the way it should be. And in a lot of instances, I find that we compare ourselves to some perfected model that really doesn't even exist. Yeah, it is okay, I you know, I'm this age and I I need to be married, or I'm this age and I need to have X, Y, and Z. And um, I think, you know, when we were talking about having this uh discussion, we talked about um, you know, kind of the book by Trisha Hercy, Rest is uh Resistance. And she says that we're all here as a you know, and working in what she calls a grind culture, that we all are working to do our best. And I think, you know, in some cases, especially uh for African American women, we've always been told you're gonna have to be better than the best. You're gonna have to be better than the best, you're gonna have to work twice as hard. And so that's what we've been going after. And then, you know, I find that a lot of times the clients, you know, are really, you know, kind of despondent or not feeling well because you know they get to a certain point in life and they haven't achieved what they have set out or what they think they should have achieved.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. You know, the whole um the whole vision for that I have for this this podcast is really talking about um women, you know, of the the later stages of life. And that's because I know that there are so many of us who um haven't taken the time or are felt like we had a place uh to have just raw conversations about the later stages of life. Um and and and as I said at the beginning of this podcast, there are a lot of conversations about dating. Of course, we're gonna talk about dating too, but we're gonna talk about later dating, you know, after after, after after dating, I guess. Um, but just just to hear um conversation about where we are at this later stage in life. Um and to also give women permission to be able to talk about the stressors, um, what what has caused us to feel bad now, and how we can have uh how how can we uh now at this age, what can we do to feel better? What can we, what are some of your um what what is some of your advice?
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, it's interesting. We I think you know, just um in our relationship, we've had this conversation before, and one of the things that we talked about before was to have self-compassion. Self-compassion is something that I you know I think as women uh we we skip over. You know, we can have compassion, we've taken care of everybody. We've taken care of the husband, we've taken care of the boyfriend, we've taken care of the parents, we've taken care of the children, and we take care of the friend, we're there to listen to them, but then we don't give that same time and that same kind of compassion to ourselves. We don't, we don't. I you know, we're we're you know, I tell people all the time, I said, listen, you gotta think about re-prioritizing and putting you as a priority, and don't think of it as being selfish because it allows you to continue to be the supporter of all these people that you're you're you're saying you need to support. I have you know, I have a client that I've seen for years, and she is so compassionate with her family members that live across the United States, making sure that she stays in touch with them and calls them. And if they're having a problem, she's she's in the middle of it. She's taking care of her adult children, and you know, if they are having problems in their relationships with their girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever it is, she takes on that. And then, you know, certainly if you're in a relationship, I think we we have also discussed that, you know, the longer you live, you have these, you know, body breakdowns. You know, somebody's gonna get sick. Yeah and so you know, you're taking care of your husband or your spouse as they go through whatever illnesses they they have, and in doing so, you deplete, you deplete yourself of all the energy, you just become depleted and fatigued. And we need to step back, give ourselves compassion so that we can you know start this journey of healing by resting for sure, yes.
SPEAKER_00We also have to give grace, give ourselves grace. Absolutely, you know, absolutely and you know, I'm I'm I'm big about being a nurturer. I think we that's yes what we do. Women, you know, we're we're nurturers and we give to everyone else and then we sit back. And sometimes we wonder how come we, you know, why why are we receiving some of this that we're giving out? Right. Sometimes we get we are we are uh we we are giving out and realize that uh not even thinking about anyone giving back to us.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And at the end of the day, we you know, I the one thing that I realized about mental health, if we don't take care of mental health, physical health diminishes. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04What do you have to say about that? Well, I think again, um in terms of societal kind of um pressures, uh we don't talk about that. You know, we don't, you know, talk about the need for taking care of our mental health, you know, and it's just been recent that it had, you know, it's it's being accepted that yeah, I have a therapist. You know, I you know, and so people are starting to talk about it, but I think it, you know, it used to come with a kind of stigma. Yeah. So I think that now that people are, you know, getting to the point where, you know, I've done all the things that have been required of me. I still don't have peace. I still don't feel good about myself. I think they have turned to the fact that, well, maybe I need to do some counseling. For sure. Some counseling and therapy.
SPEAKER_00Yes, uh-huh, for sure. Yes, and that's important for us to uh realize that you know it's we have to um first identify it and be honest about it. Yes, be honest about it, yes.
SPEAKER_04Um, and so um so yes, I think your your statement about first accepting it and identifying it is is a step that we take in in counseling and therapy, yeah, is to identify what it is that's going on, and then once you can identify it, yeah, then you can put into practice some strategies. That will help you to change what you're doing. Right.
SPEAKER_00So it's, you know, as we um begin, you talk about self-umpassion. Yes. And so what else, you know, as we look at the you know, the women that are going to be talking to us, uh-huh. What what would you like to say to them? I know we meant we mentioned uh uh rest and resistance, and I know that she has a lot to say in that book about how we need to what we need to do, and I do think that she has a couple of you know kind of a um uh it's like a strategy on how we as uh as women and specifically I'm I'm talking to women, so you know specifically to women, what how would you look to um you know, as we are talking out there, what would you say to to women? How would how what would what what what what is it that the the best advice other than the self-um compassion do we want to give?
SPEAKER_04Okay, so typically, you know, when people um come in as as clients, one of the first things I I ask is how are you sleeping?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a good one. How are you sleeping? How are you sleeping?
SPEAKER_04That's a good one. Well, because with some recent research and people go to therapy, yeah, sleep is foundational. It is foundational because not only does your body get to rejuvenate, but your brain gets to rejuvenate and be washed of whatever toxins so that you can think. Yes, so that you can think well. So that's one of the things. That's one ladies. Yes, uh sleep sleep is foundational, and it's suggested that you get at least, you know, seven, six to seven hours. Yeah. And and you know, it used to be um that people would poo-poo on sleeping. They oh, I don't need to sleep. I I can get by on four hours, blah blah blah. Well, you know what? They're finding out that you need to sleep. You need to sleep, and so that's something that I I often uh will will suggest even if I see per uh a person for just one time, please work on getting this.
SPEAKER_00And I also, you know, uh as as we talk um uh Dr. Nixon about sleep. I also heard um um that sometimes we sleep and we're overthinking. Yes. And you know, and and and we can't get to sleep because of overthinking. That's right. And then as we are sleeping, we're still not at a sound place right that we can get the rest that we need for our bodies, right?
SPEAKER_04Right. We want to get to that deep sleep. Yeah, that's why they suggest the you know, the seven hours. So sleep is certainly foundational, yeah. And then you know, you certainly want to. I think we talked earlier about relationships. Yeah, number two, relationships. So you don't want to isolate, yeah. You don't want to isolate, you know. Sometimes, um, and I think um I was reading this this book on um self-care, and it was saying that this person was so tired since we're talking about stress fatigue, that she didn't want to. I don't I don't want to drive to meet, you know, my girlfriend over at uh wherever, you know, for brunch or lunch or whatever. I don't I'm gonna go home. But the person in telling the story said once she got there and the exchange and the support she got from this friend, that's important, she gained energy. It was good. So you don't want to isolate yourself, you want to maintain some good social, you know, kind of interactions with your friends and sometimes I guess family, you know, depending upon how they might be interacting with you. So you want to do that, and then of course, this is uh the bane for me, but we want we gotta be physical, yeah. We gotta be physical, yeah, and so you know, you want to at least if you know it if possible, move or walk at least 30 minutes, you know, five days a week. Because that helps. So it's sleep, sleep, and we've talked about relationships, relationships, maintaining your relationships, and then being active. Yes, yes, yeah, and then you also want to I I call this, you know, want to be able to either meditate or have some kind of you know, kind of spiritual practices, and ladies, yes, have some kind of spiritual practices. Um I again going back to the book Rest is Resistance, the uh author talks about when she was a little girl, her grandmother used to, she said, take about 30 minutes a day and just sit and close her eyes. And she thought the grandmother was sleeping, but the grandmother said, told her that every closed eye is not sleep, and she was just really meditating. So you want to have some time to yourself to just be still. Yeah, be still. We need to be still, yes, yes, be still. So that's uh you know a real key. Yeah, um, other than that, I do as a as a mindfulness kind of thing, staying in the moment suggest that if you can, some people don't like to, but you know, to journal.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yes. I've journaled over the years, uh-huh. And you know, as I'm going through my life transitions, uh, life transition, um, different ones. Yes, um, I I realized that I needed to go back and read those uh those journals. Yes, that I I journaled years ago. Uh-huh. Oh my god. Yeah. You know, um, so even back in those years, you know, past, I can see I was writing, but I can see the hurt and the pain.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um that that those, you know, that those situations cause me a lot of joy. You know, I write about my children. You know, and even, you know, good times that that I had when I was married. It was all part of the journey uh in the journals. However, when I look back now and I'm journaling now, it's a different kind of of journaling. Yes. Um, one that I finally feel like I do have the peace that I've been looking for. Yes. Um, and I think that it's a search. Some folk are just you know, you you you're searching for peace and you don't even know it's peace until something happens and you say, Hey, yes, I'm out, I need to have something to call my own. Right. And let's start with having peace. Yes, yes. So I think journaling is is wonderful. I think.
SPEAKER_04Oh yes, yeah. Yeah, so so again, just um in terms of my own journey and trying to incorporate some of these things that I give suggestions to clients, I decided to one, um, my cell phone is not in my bedroom. Oh, that's good. My cell phone is in another room uh charging, so yeah, I can still use it as an alarm, but I gotta get up and turn it off. Yeah, and um, so the cell phone is not there, and um I try, and for most mornings, when I get up, I'm not on the cell phone for the first 30 minutes or so. Yeah, that's that's the time that I'm centering and I'm telling myself you're gonna have a good day. Yeah, and you know, this this is the day the Lord has made, and let us rejoice and be glad. Yeah, so you know, I'm I I make a statement to create what it is that I want. So personally, you know, I try to, you know, you know, incorporate in my life some of the same strategies that I give people who come in as clients. And so one, I have decided and I make a practice of not keeping my cell phone in in my room overnight. I have the cell phone charging someplace else. So when it goes off, you know, I have to get up and go see about it. Um, and when I get up, I don't immediately get on the cell phone. I give myself about you know 30 minutes to sometimes an hour before I even get on to check my messages or whatever is going on there. And uh I do tell myself, you know, you're gonna have a good day. This is the day the Lord has made. Yes, be be glad and rejoice in it. So I want to create what you know I expect to happen. So that's that's personally some things that I've started doing. Yeah, as a part of my morning routine. Yes.
SPEAKER_00So you talk about rest as resistance, yes, in that book, and uh, I think that you know that is the other thing that I'm really thank you so much for bringing that to our attention because I think that we we have a lot of readers that would like to to read more about rest and and uh why, yes, and and you know, and solutions on how we can do better what we're doing. Is there anything else that you would like to um to to say uh to us about um how we can recover, um how we can move on with our lives, knowing that stress, uh stress fatigue is real. Yes, yes, it's real. And once we realize that it it is a part of our lives, and I think even as we get older, then you can you know tell me if I'm right or wrong, but it seems as though the older we get, the more um it how do we become less stressed as we're getting older instead of um you know more things? Because we we do have we have we have caregiving, you know, we do caregivers. We we have our um, as you were saying, you know, some of us take care of our adult children. It it so it it becomes more of a more of a pattern for us, seems as though, as we get older, um, not to just come out and say, hey, I'm tired. Yeah, you do that, I will do me. So do you see that we as women can say love you, but not today?
SPEAKER_04Well, I think we can say that it's gonna take some practice. Okay, I think it's gonna take some practice, and one of the things that I often say is that you have to be intentional.
SPEAKER_00Intentional.
SPEAKER_04You have to be intentional if you know you want to change. Someone said this when I first started in practice. If you want to change something, you have to give it time and your attention, and so you have to be very intentional about making sure that you have time for yourself. You have to be very intentional about, you know, changing your sleep patterns so that you get the rest, and you have to be intentional about you know your diet and your exercise so that you can be as sharp as you want to be. So, yeah, I I uh would suggest that that also happens, you know, in terms of the the company you keep. Yes, you can be supportive for each other, and um it also happens if you know I mentioned and you talked about the journaling. Yes, this is you know, these are the goals. These are the goals, yes.
SPEAKER_00So we have to set goals. Yes, I would suggest setting some goals for yourself, yeah. Especially since we've been doing this for so long.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely intentionality is important, the intentional to change those behaviors to behaviors that are more supportive of and and giving yourself compassion and the grace and the forgiveness, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I I guess this is um, you know, as we come to the finality of this wonderful um podcast, I wonder how many women that you've talked to and you've given them these recommendations and suggestions, have they taken them and and and place placed them in their lives to combat uh fatigue? Or do you see that some of us are such in a routine uh that we don't we can't we can't do it? We feel that we can't do it? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04I I think that that it gets done, but slowly. It gets done, you know, and so I mentioned earlier about the client that I've seen for several years who's taking care of everybody, but she's she's starting to make some some changes. Okay, how many years? I want to say at this point, right, 2013 is probably when we started. So was that yeah, that's that you say um yeah 12 years at least. Yeah, yeah, 2013. And you know, things have changed. Yeah, things change in that period of time, and so has she. You know, but it's been slow, it's been slow because you know, we're like I said, we're in a system that really doesn't support that kind of change, right? And truth be told, many of the people around us don't support that change.
SPEAKER_00Well, they don't support that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they don't, you know, they want you to be like you've always been.
SPEAKER_00Yes, ma'am. And it's it's very difficult to accept the change. Yes. And um the one thing that I realize is that uh for me I have to be stronger, yes, um, and stronger in my in my own self-worth uh and and understanding my value. Yes. Uh, and I think that because of that, I'm able to listen to these different voices and realize that I'm on a journey. I really am on a journey of healing. And when we talk about healing, that might be something that others will not accept. But what is it that I can do to make myself whole and happy again? Absolutely, and have the peace.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. So it's a great way of thinking, you know, that we're, you know, you have accepted that you are on a journey of healing, and that may be uncomfortable for others. But it'll need to. Yes, and it's uncomfortable for you sometimes, but yeah, in in the end, it's best for your peace and for you gaining some rest. Thank you so much, Dr.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you. It's been wonderful, yeah. It's been wonderful and I appreciate it. So glad that we have I am so glad to be a part of this. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm excited. I'm really excited. Well, how this is going to, you know, how this is gonna help help a lot of women. And hopefully there may be some men that watch this as well, and uh, you know, it'll help them to see how we react and what we need in order to uh move forward. Uh, but it's this is you know, this has been a good conversation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it has been.
SPEAKER_00And hopefully I think we are all um, you know, affected by stress fatigue. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of this. Once again, I want to say that uh Dr. Nixon can be located in her office, and her office is Connections and Consultant LLC. The address is 100 Allenton Allenton Parkway and number 114. So she is available uh to uh to do more therapy, to do more counseling, and gosh, don't we need that right now, ladies? Thank you very much for participating and always remember that we are on this journey together. Goodbye. Goodbye.