Episode 6: When Risk takes Flight

In this episode of The Calculated Collective, we sit down with a leader whose story is shaped by discipline, service, mentorship, and purpose. From his childhood experiences to his time in the Air Force and now leading a collegiate flight program, this conversation explores how the people and moments that shape us often influence the way we lead others.

We talk about the lessons learned through military service, the responsibility that comes with guiding students into high-pressure careers, and why investing in the next generation matters far beyond the classroom or cockpit. He shares perspectives on leadership, resilience, accountability, community impact, and the importance of helping young people see what they’re capable of before they fully believe it themselves.

This episode is about more than aviation. It’s about direction, purpose, and the ripple effect of mentorship, discipline, and showing up for others.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're here to talk about what risk really means. Not in theory, not on paper, but in the choices real people make when the stakes are real and the outcome isn't guaranteed. Risk shows up in silence, in urgency, loyalty, fear, and hope. It shapes what we build, what we protect, and what we're willing to fight for. It's not just personal, it's deeply connected. Every calculated risk leaves a mark, and the ripple it creates doesn't just touch one life, it echoes through families, businesses, and entire communities. This podcast is about those echoes, the ones that remind us that we're not alone in the decisions we make or the weight we carry.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Welcome to the Calculated Collective. I'm Trevor Hurley with Iron Insurance in Salina, Kansas. Here today with Ty Pina. And Ty is the head of the aviation department at Kansas State University. Ty, when'd you start? Almost two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Okay. Almost two years. I had the fortune after my interview to be a part of the Skillbridge program, which is an amazing Department of Defense program that allows you to bridge your skills from the military to the civilian world. And so that allowed me to go to Las Vegas and work for a flight school, uh Chenault Flying School. Great, amazing flight school out there in Las Vegas, Nevada. They fly or Nevada, they fly out of uh North Vegas Airport. And uh so I got to watch how the business operation works, how civilian flight schedules work, and all that kind of stuff. And while I was doing that, I had six months to come back here and learn about the culture of this place. And so the Air Force helped me accelerate my off-ramp into the new journey. And so awesome. Yeah, and that was a fantastic part of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Tell me, tell me about so military. How many, how many years? 21 years. And thanks for your service, by the way. I appreciate that. Um when did you start? Right at high school?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So funny story. Um I wanted to fly since I was three, and that was one of the biggest blessings of my life because it guided my life. You know, like for my kids, the the thing that I want for them is passion. Because in this life, you can get a long way just on passion and fuel and you know, just grind, just grind. And so from a really young age, I had direction.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

What why? Family and what was the influence?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

It's a really small catalyst. It was I was one of the fortunate, you know, kids in in Boston that my aunt moved to St. Louis. And my grandmother, who was my she's my hero still to this day, she said, I need to go visit my daughter. I'm bringing my boy with me. And so we hopped a TWA flight, which is not an airline anymore. And um when we got on, and I'm like three, I remember them waddling me up to the uh flight deck and they handed me a pair of plastic gold wings, and that was my prize possession for a decade afterwards, you know. And so it's one of the reasons why it's so important for me to get this K these K-State airplanes away from here and and off to all of western Kansas and all of the different regions, so that you know, maybe that sparks an interest in in one of those kids. No, whether it's elementary school or high school, like reach out and teach and and and hey, look at STEM is for you too. You work on a farm in western Kansas, but you too can do technology or engineering or fly an airplane or work on airplanes and just reaching out there to all Kansas.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Totally. So so I I I know this already, obviously. So Air Force comes to get you and you play you play hoops for Air Force, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

It was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Um, your commitment you signed up for was what 10 years after you play? So you were, and again, you were already geared that way. Yeah, you were excited to do that.

unknown 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

You hit the ground running, so you're done with school, and was it exactly what you pictured? Like, hey, here I am, and this is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

No, no. So I got to the academy, and I I think without saying, everyone understands that the Air Force Academy is a tough place to be, uh, both academically and militarily. But then you you add on Division I athletics and basketball is in a weird spot. You know, baseball is just in that spring semester. Yep. Basketball's over fall and spring semester, so I'm missing classes because we have Tuesday, Thursday games. I'm on the road. I'm in academic trouble from like jump street.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Uh I think I had a 4-0 first semester, and then it just I I understand the path.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yeah, plummeted.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And so I was on academic probation for most of my time at the Air Force Academy. But the the cool thing about that is that I had to lean on people kind of early. Like whether it's professors or my liaison officer from Georgia that helped me get to the academy, they were like, listen, dude, you're not that smart. And that's okay. We need you to lean on us and you need to work hard. The grit, right? The hustle. Remember your passion, study hard, and we will help you get through that. And at such a formative age, to know that your life isn't just about you, right? You know, there are people that are willing to pour into you if you ask for that help. That's that that's life-changing. And that's something that I want these students here at Kansas State to understand. Like, yep, I'm the department head, but I'm also here for you. You are why I exist, you're why my staff exists and my team exists. So we're here to pour into you. But you have to be a good teammate. And everybody's good on, yeah, I'm gonna be a great teammate. If my roommate's struggling, I'm gonna reach out and I'm gonna help them out. But it's a good teammate is also dang, I am struggling. I need to ask for help.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

And that level of humility just isn't natural to a lot of people. And so when you do reach out and you get that help, what does that do for you in the future? People that get good mentorship make good mentors later. And so I thirst to help other people. You know, most of the things I do on LinkedIn and connect is to be like Magic Johnson and pass out an assist. Oh, you need to connect to somebody? Oh, I know that person. Like, let's go. Right, right. That's that's that's the joy of my life. Yeah, right. And so now being able to connect these future pilots and maintainers to their industry.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

That's awesome. No, it's awesome. And again, I I think that's a big deal for all of us. Um, you know, reaching out and helping others is is pretty natural. Yeah, asking for it though. It's hard. Identifying when I'm in trouble or I just need an assistance from somebody, um, that's a skill to go and ask for that. I mean, that's not easy. Once you learn that though, because so many of us want to help each other.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah, totally want to be there for each other. And like when you take that new scary job, people that are willing to ask for help develop into that job faster.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

You're exactly right. Hey, and on the on that note, yeah. Uh so this is this is about we're talking risk. Yeah, you just came to Salina, Kansas two years ago. Yeah, like to like tell tell me about that. Like, that's a risk. I mean, right? You know that was a huge family's got to be on board. I mean, you're close, I mean, you're leaving a community that you probably loved and were tight with. And I mean, talk about that. Like, that's a risk. I got one jump, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

The first thing is is I did like the community in Oklahoma City, but being an Air Force guy, I had never been anywhere for more than two or three years.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

True.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

My oldest boy is 16, and he's lived in 12, 13 different places. Um, so honestly, upon retirement, I was looking for a place I could, you know, plant a tree and and watch it grow. And thanks to my homeowners association, we were responsible for planting two trees in front of our yard. So I will get to do just that. Awesome. I would love to be. Yeah, yeah, fact. Um, but I I never saw myself in Salina, Kansas, ever, ever, ever. Uh, I actually got Did you know where it was?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Did you even know on the map?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

I I I did, but only because you have a KOA right there. And so when I would take the RV to Denver, we would stop in that KOA. That's fine. So um, I had been to Salina before. I just didn't know it was Celina until I got here. So I was like, oh, I've been there and I've been to that IHOP that's right next to the KOA. Like, so that that's all I knew. And um, I don't know if it's in frame, but you can see I got my MBA from the University of the Yeah. I won't hold that against you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. And that that was part of the interview process. Yeah, you know, I was like, listen, I gotta be straight up. I have a ton of Jayhawk memorabilia in my house. Like I finally had a basketball team that was regularly in the middle of the room. You actually played for the roof form, and these guys are good. So then I said, listen, if I get this job, all of that Jayhawk stuff will go into a box in the basement and it will stay there. No, it's okay. And my whole, and I'm gonna let's see how flexible I am, my whole wardrobe will turn purple.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I appreciate it. I mean, especially knowing you got your I mean, that's awesome. Yep. I appreciate the purple support.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

And so that's where I'm at, right? Like it's like a basketball coach. You go to that job, that is your whole existence because if I don't buy the culture, I can't sell it.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Well, it it hey, and on that note, see when he got here. I mean, what sold you? So so you come on interview. I mean, what sold you?

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Like what so uh even the interview process, you know, the head hunter came and found me, which was awesome. And he was like, What about academia? And I was like, I've never thought about that, never wanted that, don't want to go into you know teaching at that level. Um, but he's like, your experience, it it vouches for that. So just here, here's the here's the guide, read through it. And I read through it, and it was a great program. Uh, I didn't realize how many assets it had, you know, what kind of budget you know you are in you know responsible for. Yeah. Um, and so I was like, okay, that's intriguing. And so I I did the interview process and got through the Zoom interview, and then I got here. And what sold me was the interview process. The fact that uh my boss, Dean Starkey, she brought the whole of campus to take a look at me. And so they poked and prodded, they found out all about me. I had a whole day of firing squad interviews where it was students and staff uh and faculty all asking questions, you know, about who I am and why I want this job. And so at the time, you know, I co-owned an airplane and I landed here and taxied in and had a great interaction with the tower controller, uh, Brandon Walker, who uh is the tower chief up there. Great dude. He knew I was coming, and and so I got a welcome, and then I got to meet him later. My first trip was out to the maintenance hangar, and I took you guys out there. Yep, just a great bunch of dudes. And for me with aviation, you can tell a lot about the organization by how it does maintenance, and I was very comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Go behind go behind the curtain and you find you find out, you know. Take the tires a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Uh-huh. And then, you know, you land, and and the people that greeted me first were a bunch of students because that's who works our ground operations. And they came out, they filled my plane, they cleaned my windshield, and they were just excited to be a part of the hiring process. And when you when you get to this place, it's just magical. It's just so in that ramp, there's a big hangar that says Kansas State University Celina, and you just you feel at home. It's its own ramp, it's its own area. There are 20 very new uh Cessna 172s that are sitting out there that it's like, oh, this is what I'm gonna be responsible for. Okay, that is both like super cool and it comes with a sense of gravitas. You know, you are responsible for these young lives.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

And so being military, similar. Like those are all my people, you know. I am responsible for them and their families. And so that's not something that I was um that I take lightly. Sure. But it's also something that I don't fear. I lean into that because you create relationships that last a lifetime. I have a book over there that is signed by all the people that went through my squadron as I was there, and the notes in it, that's what keeps me going. Because if you can pour into people, yep, they're gonna remember you for their whole lives. And you had in that in that moment, you had an impact on them that changes the course of who they are as people, and especially with these 18, 19-year-olds, we can really add value to them, not only in what they offer to the world, but how they think of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

That's incredible, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And so that that's my job, and that's an amazing job to have. And so, as I'm going through this interview process, you know, I'm having these realizations that this is this is where I need to be. And so we talked about like the final part of the interview on day two. Uh, I had to give a a talk that I was unprepared for because I didn't know it was happening.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

And how many people were gonna come to this talk, by the way? You found out when you got there, how many people were there?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

I found out the day of the talk, probably an hour and a half before it. Uh, there are there were 85, 86 people, I think, all in this.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

And you told me these folks had to vote. If they showed up to this to this final stage of your interview, they were allowed to vote on should we hire him or not? So these are 85 in-tune people who are looking at you like judging. All right, what's this guy got? And you were told an hour and a half. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

And you said, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I was like, just give me an office and I can go in my laptop and I can make it happen. Uh, and so I did. And I think I took a different route than than uh than most people.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

And Ty, did you did you want to, did you want to knock it out of the park, or were you just finishing your interview, or were you like sold at this point, like, I want this job and I'm about to risk it all on this interview, I'm not prepared for it?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Or like no, so it was for me, it was an opportunity to present to a larger audience who I am, right? Because I think, especially when you talk about academia and and leadership within academia, I try to be on all the tours. When when parents and students, I try to jump out. You can see from my desk, I can see out there. And when there's a tour coming through, I jump out of meetings and I go meet the parents because it's important for them to understand who is responsible for their son or daughter. That is the most valuable resource that they have. It's not jewels, it's not their house, it's not their car. Yep, their children are their most valuable resource, and now they're gonna hand them off to some stranger to complete the maturation process. Yep. My job is to turn them into the professional, right? And so it's important for me to get in front of those parents and show them who I am and make them understand like they're in safe hands.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Well, again, they're mom and dad, right? I'm I'm a dad, you're a dad. That's a big risk for my my kids gonna go where and who's gonna see them and who's gonna over who's gonna take care of them. So that's cool you do that. Yeah, I'm sure that's not very common.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

I mean, that we we turn probably nine out of 10 of the students that come here apply here.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Wow, that's which again, that's gotta be higher hit ratio than any other school.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

This is special. Like I'm telling you, the people as you guys walk around and talk to people, you can you can feel the vibe.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah, totally, totally. And I mean, your fist bumping kids, they have a they they know you obviously on a human level. Yeah. I thought that was really cool. I mean, it felt like a locker room to me. We're both locker roys. And that's what it's about.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

You know, it's it's about like, hey, my job is to care so much about you that when you mess up, you're more disappointed that you messed up.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Sure. I mean, school's almost secondary. It's like, hey, we're gonna know each other, we're gonna do school, we're gonna we're gonna learn, but but we're gonna know each other personally, which is cool.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

So, how do we how do we raise the standards so that we have high standards? But then it's also fun to show up for work or school or class because we're flying airplanes, we're maintaining airplanes, we're learning how to do aviation business. Like those are all awesome things, but the margin for error is very thin. So you have to want to.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I can't teach you to want to. You either have hustle or you don't. You're either motivated or you're not. You either have the grit and you can take a knife hand like, hey, today, today wasn't your best day. And here's why, and here's how we are gonna get you there later, right? All my athletes, they make it just impressive students because they've been yelled at before. That's right. They've been told. We can take constructive criticism, right? And and just to be honest, with the current generation, we have to teach them how to handle feedback. That it's not me coming at you personally, it's me coming at your how you attack the problem. Yep. Your preparedness for the problem, things that we can fix together if you have the grit and the grind to get through it and hustle.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Well, exactly. So stay on that note. I'm gonna pick at you. Talk about weapons school. Sure. So for the folks who are watching, right? That's like, I mean, Air Force, right? Or Air Force Top Gun. Let's turn on top gun. Yeah, but that's the you were in you were in that environment, correct? Exactly. You do you're how many years did you serve in the Air Force before you went to weapon school?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

About eight. Okay. I was a captain.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

And you're selected.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

You're select, you're picked. It's uh, it's like the one top one percent of a squadron gets to go to this. And unlike the Navy's top gun, obviously the Air Force is much harder, much better, much more quality organization. Okay, love my Navy compatriots, but um they'll take that fine, they're fine. They'll find it's everything's fine. Uh, it's six months long, and you are in it for six months. And before I got there, like I was really good at what I did. Like, it was known, like, hey, if you need something done, like Tiny is the tactical you know leader at that stuff. And uh, that was my call sign, by the way. Tiny, I'm six eight, so it just it just makes sense. I like that. Um, so like I lived out there, I went to all the exercises. I I tried to grow myself as much as I could to be the best of the best. And so when it was my time to get there, I knew all of the instructors, I knew what was going on, I knew the process, I knew how it went. And to make a very long story short, I was not humble. I I I looked at myself and I was like, I am better than everyone. And that's just not a good way to go into things. And so when I got there, everything was fine, and then a certain mission happened and it got me. And instead of going, oh man, I'm gonna learn from this.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

The constructive criticism piece, you were lacking at the time. That's right. I mean, this kind of feeds, but you might weren't ready for that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

My first thought is you're just jealous because I'm better than you. Right?

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Like I'm just better than you. It's like, hey, I got you, you don't know how to handle it. But I got you.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

A more tactically proficient, I think faster, you're just not on my level. You don't see what I say.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

And again, when you're saying you, you're talking about your instructors. Oh, yeah, my instructors, absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

And it's funny because all of these guys are my friends, and even still to this day, uh, they are people that that pour into me, and and hopefully I pour into them as well. And they were like, bro, what are you doing? You know, and so being able to take that feedback and and or not not be able to take that feedback, that was hard. And so I hit multiple walls going in. And then there's this thing that I like to describe resilience, right? Resilience is is like um resilience is like a gas tank, right? Like you have to make sure it's full because life is gonna hit you and it's gonna pull from that gas tank. And when that gas tank is empty, that's when your life starts to unravel, fall apart, uh, depression and and and anxiety and all that kind of stuff. And for me, I learned later in the debrief from all of this and that that I need my faith, I need my family, I need my friends, I need uh you know, fitness. I gotta get out there and and do stuff. And and I am just a a high energy nutball. Like what you see is what you get. I'm always going. I I need some sense of fun. Yeah, right. That's what fills my my paint. And so once I start hitting all these walls, now I'm not going to church anymore. I'm not calling back to the family anymore. Um, I'm not hanging out with my friends, you know, on the weekends. I stopped going to the gym completely. And I just wasn't having fun anymore. Like, and the one thing that I love about the jobs that I've had is I've always been able to make them fun where it doesn't feel like work. I enjoy it. It's it's the same thing here at K-State. I love coming to work because I get to work with these young people and they're an amazing staff. So not doing all those things, gas tank is empty, empty, empty. I'm staying like 18 hours in the vault, studying, getting ready, preparing for the next mission. I'm not sleeping very well. And the other thing that happened is I started like using alcohol as a crutch on top of that. So now I'm like, I can't go to sleep. You know what? Shot a jack, boom, and now I'm asleep. Sure. Right. And so I'd sleep for that hour and a half, and then I'm up and I'm doing it again the next day. You do that for four or five months. I wasn't the same person. Comes habits, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

You start making habits.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

And what's what's really crazy is when I look back, I am so thankful that A, I had the experience. And then B, that they didn't because they knew who I was and that I should earn that patch because the weapon school, you get a patch. But they washed me out anyway. And so we're sitting around a table like this with the commander of the weapon school, and they're like, Tiny, you're not gonna make it. And I'm like, I get it, I understand. And like the tears around the table because they were letting go of a friend that's hard. And they had to make that hard decision. And that's something that I talk to my instructors about all the time, right? There's a line, there's a standard, and we have to make sure our students meet that standard and we love them and we want them to get there, but not everybody is built to be a professional pilot. Not everybody's meant to be a professional maintainer. And we, as long as we give 100% effort and we try to help them get there and they just fall short, we've got to lovingly, you know, say goodbye and help them on a path that they will be successful on.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

I think, I think that is an incredible just life lesson in general. Sure. And for you to for you to experience it yourself and to come out the other side better from it.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Uh so firsthand, you know exactly the value of you walking around here and what y'all are doing for these young people. And because again, they're they're out there. I mean, some of these kids probably come here thinking it's a cool idea. I guess I'll be a pilot. Oh, yeah, you get a I'll I'll come. I mean, some of these kids probably are passionate about it. They just, I guess I'll be a pilot, maybe. Let's try the school out. Um, and so you're here to teach them, you know, educate them on how to do that, but but but you gotta hold them to a standard. But like you said earlier, like we can lead the horse to water, but the horse you gotta drink. So they gotta step through and do that. And So you got to experience it firsthand from I I imagine that was a that's a scary, that's a high level. These are folks that we don't interact with, right? These are high level military folks who have had to sit there and loved you, but had to tell you you're not doing it. And we're not gonna let you just skate through, you're done.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And I think the full circle of it is okay, now I'm out. And now I fear for my career.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Sure. So now you're like, what do I do?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Air Force people don't fail stuff, right? And now I failed. And what I didn't understand is that's a top of the top program. People are like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're fine. The fact that you even got selected, you're good. But mentally, no, it's a failure. Right. We're athletes, it's a failure. Yeah, we've that's a failure. So I made more bad decisions by Las Vegas, Nevada. I was stationed in Panama City, Florida. I was like, I'm just gonna keep driving until I'm tired.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Oh gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And so I just kept going, you know, little little uh five-hour energy here and there. Like I drove straight and I remember it because it was May 2nd, uh, 2011, which is when Osama bin Laden got rolled up. Okay, and so I also had that on the radio. So I'm like, all right, we got him, you know, whatever. Like, so that hyped me up. And so I made that drive in one night. And I came home uh and the wife and the kid were there, and I think I think my boy was three at the time, and you know, my wife got us matching brains hats, and so tried to make it as you know, welcome home as possible. But where it really started to to to swing was my commander sat me down the next day and he goes, All right, Ty, you're my number one guy when you left, you're still my number one guy. I want you to go home for a month, lick your wounds, feel sorry for yourself. But when you get back here, I need you back here educating these students. So again, that was my first foray into I was at a schoolhouse and I was teaching people how to operate. And you know, I was pretty good at that, you know, connecting to people, but now I've lost all of my confidence. All of it. And so he knew that, he saw that, he felt that. And he said, Go home.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Take a breather.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Right. And so he helped me get back on the pedestal. I got back and he's like, fake it till you make it. They don't know anything, they just know you and they need all of you, so go give it. Um, and so that helped me get back. And it took six months, seven months to feel back, but because of his belief, I was able to make that climb. Those instructors out at the weapon school would call from time to time and just came on me.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And then what really changed things, you know, to finish it, they called, they're like, Hey, we have a student that's having issues. Will you fly out here and and talk to them? And at first, I'm like, oh hell, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah, what do you want? Yeah, I got my own stuff. What do you want me to do that for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Right. And they were like, I they they were like, we think your story will help them. So I was like, okay. And so I flew out, had a chat with the person, and I was like, listen, there's there's life on the other side of this. Just you focus, you grind, but you keep your priorities, keep doing what you do, stay you. Because at the end of this, when my resilience tank was empty, I wasn't me anymore. You can't fear washing out. You have to be you and learn as much as you can.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Sure. And so which in the moment's hard. It's hard, right? In the moment's difficult. I mean, that's that's not something that that's very easily understandable. Yeah. Because in the moment, right, you're you're trying to make this top top end high-level flight school where failure's not an option. Yeah, and you've had probably never failed your life. Uh I mean, we're doing out. I mean, I'm just saying, like to that point, like not like we're not used to losing. Right? That's that's not what's something that you do.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

It's like in an O2 count end of the game, right? Right, right, right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

It's O2.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

You start thinking about striking out instead of when am I gonna where am I gonna place that?

SPEAKER_03 25:39

That's a great analogy. Yeah, and so it's a different mentality. Because when you're confident it's just O2, I got another pitch. Yeah, but when you're struggling and you're starting to think about it, you're like, uh oh, I'm gonna, I'm about to punch out here and the game's over.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

So when that dude graduated, I didn't go out to graduation, I wasn't ready to be out there again yet.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Well, good for you. So he gets so he made it through. Like awesome.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

And but like that happened a couple more times after that. And every time they graduated, it felt like I got a little piece of patch and to the point where I was eventually I felt comfortable being out there again. And what's really cool is they kept me close to the best. And so later in my career, a couple years later, uh, I'm out and we have this mission pop up. And my crew was gonna go fly, and they pulled us off of that mission, put my team in crew rest, and I got to go help mission plan for this rescue mission.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And the reason was you know, our weapons officer was leading it and they needed somebody to go fly it. They're like, he is a weapons officer. Like Tiny's got it, he'll do it. Like, I get it. And so their belief in me throughout my career, I wouldn't have been a commander without that.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

No, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I wouldn't have been able to lead tactics without that. I they gave me so much credibility because they bought into who I was both during and after the program.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

And like that so again, like for you, and this isn't a pitch to get kids to come to Kansas State flight school, where but for you, I mean, you firsthand understand. I mean, because like you said, they could have punished you. Like, if they don't call and check on you, if they but genuinely caring about somebody and showing that made all the difference for you. Showing gosh, yeah, yeah. Especially when, again, like for us, we're we're transplants here. We're I'm from Houston, you're from Atlanta. Yeah, like we're not home. These kids aren't home, right? They're away from home, right? They got to have someone there who is like that second dad or whatever, whatever it might be. Right. Whatever you need to counselor, we need to have somebody who they can lean on, who they know, hey, they got my back. And that's so you saw firsthand from and they didn't have to do that probably. And I'm guessing, and I'm guessing a lot of pilots that went through that school probably have a different story than you. They might not have cared about them as much or whatever it might be, but but you know the impact, which is which is incredible to have that.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

And sure, it was an amazing, terrible five years.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Right, horrible, horrible, probably, and then great.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

The next six months were were really rough, but also that's the stuff that builds you, yeah. And that's why like I try to teach you know my staff and these students that failure's good. Failure is what allows you to level up. Like people that run away from risk. I was talking to a student the other day because it's been windy here in Kansas the last couple weeks, and she chose not to fly because of the winds, even though they were within limits. And I said, It's your call, you know, you're the pilot in command, you get to do that. But were you flying with an instructor? And she's like, Yes. She's like, the instructor was comfortable flying, and she was like, Yes. I was like, Sometimes it's good to go push your boundaries so that you are comfortable that next time. She's like, but I didn't want to fail. Like, I I want to like just take that notion and like throw that away. Yep. I want you to go fail right in a safe environment. Right, right. And I want you to fail a couple times, and then I want you to stick it. And then when you stick it, you're like, I got this. I'm ready for higher winds. All right, I'm a pilot. Right. Um, and it's funny because I told my weapon school story at uh she's she's ROTC, and I I uh spoke at the ROTC banquet a couple weeks ago. And I was like, Do you remember the weapon school story? She's like, I do. She's like, that connects. Good. Go fly.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

And that's and again, that's part of that's that's what you do today, right? You get these kids to step out of their comfort zone while they're learning, yeah, and they get a they get a better skill set for it. Um, but again, it's hard until you start doing that. Like for her, she'd she's not comfortable. It's hard. But I think that it's funny how you say failure levels you up. I remember any team I was a part of. Winning's easy, yeah, right? Winning's easy. When when we're winning, nothing's going wrong. We start losing. You start nitpicking, then you start complaining, and then you start, where's the problem? You start pointing the finger. Yep. So losing teaches you who you are, and you can and you got to come out the other side of it, right? Agreed. Um, talk talk about real quick about so actively today, what what keeps you up at night? So you're in the school, yeah. What keeps you up?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Um so for the last two years, we've been doing a lot of culture building here, like putting putting pieces back together and and and making sure this feels like a place you want to send.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

And to tie that in, we had a Bill Gross had a legend here for so long, who who essentially built this right hi. That's what Bill says, yeah. Who essentially built this program from the ground up, um, and then you lose that legend who did everything. So that's where you're that's what you're alluding to here, just to give some.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I am here to rebuild this program. I'm here to make it feel good to show up for work, class, whatever. I'm here to make sure that we not only hold the standard, but we raise that bar.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Right. Um and so, and so this isn't picking on anything prior to, but but maybe a lack of a lack of a plan was in play. There was no plan, probably. Um maybe, or or just struggling to fit the pieces.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

I will also say, you know, the people that were in the seat before me all did things that helped get it where it needed to be. It was just there was such a a cultural thing going on that I don't know if if anybody had the at least they talk about a thing called Bosta where it's it's relational, like you understand the environment and everything. And so the people before me, they were able to put things in place that allowed me the platform to jump off from because you know I'm a new guy, I'm coming from the air, right? Fresh eyes, but like, yeah, they're like, oh, Air Force Colonel, let's let's stop and listen to what he has to say. And when I got here, I didn't do anything, I just stopped and listened to what they had to say and why they thought that was the right direction and where we should be going and try to put things in into place. And so, like, let's let's just be very clear, it's not about me, it was about the team all starting to listen and listen to each other. So my job was just to make sure Joe and Johnny who weren't on the same page were speaking to each other through me.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

But it's like, nope, this is a good idea because, but also this has merit because so given that, what's the best course of action for us? Sure. And so now we're starting to meld, and and people that hadn't talked to each other in a while, are starting isolate. So separate departments are all of a sudden starting to yeah, interact and you know, get on the same page or try to cultural things, those are like, okay, you guys give me a chance by giving each other a chance, and now we're all you know getting to that same page type place. And it was probably six months before I did anything major as far as like shifting, you know, the tide. It was just it felt better all of a sudden being here for everybody, and that allowed us to then start leveling up exponentially.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Well, and I think what's important there too is you had to understand what's here. If you come in barking orders right away, sure, you don't know the culture, sure. It'd be like taking a kid on the basketball court and just teaching him a certain form on a jump shot without seeing a shot. Like we can work with your shot. What do what's your shot? So you you learn you learn the the rules of the game that what was happening at the time, and then you just found a way to do that big hug as you kind of mentioned and try to bring it all together.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

And those are those big blessings that you know because I hadn't been anywhere for more than two to three years, and as a matter of fact, before before my command, I had a bunch of one-year stints, and so I'm used to coming into organizations and it's like and it being different than where you just were, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Exactly. So you I mean we're both we're chameleons. Yeah, what's their culture? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Let me assimilate to that. You can blend right in, yeah. Figure it out, yep, and then make it better. Yep, right. Yeah, so that's where we are. And now uh you know that you know that culture's changing when people start saying the things you say totally in mannerisms, like they make fun of the way that I walk.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

No, but that's right, but we but that's how we know. Yeah, they make fun of the when you start getting made fun of, you know you're in a you're in a place where people love each other because that's that's like a sign of love when you make fun of each other, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

At that ROTC banquet, my my team came with me uh when I was presenting it and they made bingo cards, like with my saying. What's I gonna say? And so I am literally three minutes into this talk. Bingo and I hear bingo from like six of them.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

And I'm like, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

I was more like in three minutes, like, yeah, you're pretty they know you, they know you, Bob. And so that's just you know, those are culture wins, you know. We went to uh one of our uh assistant chief pilot's weddings, you know, over the weekend, and you know the staff was there, but then afterwards he calls the the instructors, the flight instructors are like, Hey, y'all want to come to the reception? All of a sudden, all these instructors descend upon this place and we have a good time. Yeah, so much fun. You know, and me and my uh director of safety were there and we look at our watches, we're like, mm-hmm, now it's time for time for dads to leave so that you know the kids can go do their thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

But how fun though? Like that's such a good thing that's when you're in a good place, right? I mean, that's I'm sure that wouldn't have happened a couple years ago here, which is which is cool. Yeah, it's lovely. Um so here for long, like are you missing home or do you miss? I mean, is Solina feeling like home?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Uh you know, it's funny because my fiance, uh she just she came to Salina from LA.

unknown 34:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

So that's a huge culture shift for her. Sure. Um, and so right now she's giving Celina a chance, and you know, we just joined the country club and that kind of thing. And so we're meeting people. And I think the more that we establish roots and and get to know people, because my first two here years here, I was so engrossed in this, I didn't really connect as much as I should have. Matter of fact, um one of our one of our good friends, Ryan, I met him last year at uh at Coslo. He's um we he's a huge Cubs fan. And I was flying from Chicago to Salina coming back from our flight team at Nationals and we diverted to Omaha.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

And so I saw the weather. I knew what was gonna happen. I figured we were probably gonna divert. And then knowing the pilot schedules, I figured they're not, we're not gonna make it to Salina because they're not gonna have the the time, they're gonna time out and have to go to a hotel and we're gonna have to fly out in the morning and not doing that. So I had a rental car ready to go. And so I'm walking out and I see him and his wife, and I'm like, Are you guys going to Salina? They're like, Yeah, like I rented a car already, you want to hop in. And so serendipity, right? Yeah, yeah. We just we're just talking on the way home. Oh, you're a huge baseball fan. Oh, that's cool. Like, what do you do? You know, I work in finance. Oh, that's awesome. I run the you know, the flight program at K-State. And he's like, Oh, I'm a huge K-State fan. And so it was just easy, and all of a sudden we're playing golf and and whatever. And so I I think that's this year. I'm gonna be more intentional about you know, growing the connections for me and her and my kids so that we can start to plant some roots. And you know, I feel like this is at least a five, six year project. Because, you know, my staff, you know, you met my director of safety, he was in Dallas working for American Airlines. Definitely hadn't he didn't have Celina on the brain either. Right. But when we're sitting across this table when I was interviewing him, I sold him on here's what I see for this program. He bought into that. And now he came to Celina. My uh director of the pilot program was at Mississippi State. He had a huge farm. People said he was dumb for making the turn, but we sat across from this table. I said, Here's my vision for this program. I'll give you the keys that you're part of it. What do you want to do? He came to Celina. My director of maintenance is from the Bahamas. She worked for Ember Riddle. Has no business in Celina. Crazy, right? Right? Sat across the table. I need you here because you're gonna run my maintenance program. You get the keys of the castle, you know, I will help you, you know, learn to lead. She was faculty and now she's stepping in a leadership role. My job is to help you do that. She's here from Florida. It's crazy, you know? And so, like, I feel very responsible to that team because they picked Celina, but I'm the one that sold them on that.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So like it I can't just cut and run until we're where we need to be.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

No, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

And I think we're probably five years from that, and then we'll assess and figure it out. Sure. Um, but we have we have a vision and we have goals and we have a strategy, and like it's so cool every year to look back at the past year and go, hey, we made progress. What's next?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Well, I th I think I think it's really neat on you know, folks will folks will do that when when there's when there's something to run to, right? I always in my head I'm always thinking like don't run from something, run to something. Like, right? Obviously, you've built something here that's worth running to, and that's really neat to hear those stories. I had no idea about that. It's really cool. And for the record, first time out here.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Super dude, this place is awesome. Um seriously, I'm blown away by I mean, the I I could tell the expertise in there. Like those, like the people I just talked to are like we're talking about high-level professionals here that are that are part of this place. And these students who are again, you're fist bumped people, and they're you can tell they're excited to come to school and and learn. And um, I just had no idea that this is really neat out here. So I appreciate you showing us around on that. So it's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Stop stop by. We uh there you go. He'll he'll show you around. People walk around all the time, and you know, we we want to be a part of Celina, like in the community. Uh, we started working with Westland to do like some flyovers and stuff. Oh, awesome. It was fun. Um, because when people think of the college in Salina, they think of Westland and you know, my neighbor is the athletic director there. I want to look at him specifically and say that Kansas State Salina is the University of Celina, okay? All right, it's almost Salina State University, right? Wesley and who? Yeah, exactly. But no, we've been we've had a good partnership with them. Our students get in free to their you know, uh basketball football games and stuff. And they're purple as well. So you know it works out.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Yep. No, that's great, awesome. So you had you was 20 years retirement? So at 20, you were allowed to retire. Yep. Okay. Well you were you were only asked to serve 10, correct? When you went to the Air Force, you're on for a 10-year hook. At 10 years, could you have gone?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

It's funny. My dad wanted me to leave real bad. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Like, you got so much talent and you know, emotional intelligence, you get out in the business. You can do whatever you want in the business. Yeah, you make a lot of money, go to the academy guy.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Like I wasn't done yet. I was still leading people. And I learned I love flying. But my life is about pouring into people.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Sure. You know, sure. And and and ironically, you get to do both here. I mean, you get you get to mix the world, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Exactly. And that's literally how the recruiter used my own words against me. No. No, he goes, You told me you need aviation, you need an organization to grow, and you need to be able to pour into people.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

He's like, I got it for you, dude. What else do you want? What else do you have, right? Right? Are you lying to me? So, how how often do you go up yourself? How often do you fly these days?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Once or twice a month. Uh my fiance is a private pilot as well. Oh, cool. Okay. So we're we're probably gonna buy an airplane at some point. Cool. You know, I can't unfortunately I can't take her up in one of these uh because they're you know state-owned assets. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

Like it's against the rules. Okay, like you couldn't take you couldn't take us in, yeah. Okay, okay. Um you'd be part of this school, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Okay, so we want to own our own airplane, and like I don't get to teach often, so it would be cool to be able to, you know, if somebody like my neighbor wanted to learn how to fly or something, be able to teach them on the buy airplane or whatever. Just the love instructing. No, totally, but I just don't have time for it.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Well, if you ever get one, I want to go up with the other cool. I'm in. We had there was a place down here that rented airplanes, but uh uh Yeah, I don't I like recently the like it's a couple years ago they did it, or just last year. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

It just hasn't been up again, or else we would go right now.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Guess that makes sense. Okay. Well, I'm from a big city, but even me, and I'm talking like until maybe today when you just told me that, even I growing up never I thought pilots that's an unattainable. I can I will never be a pilot. Those are like ex-military guys and gals, and I I can never, there's no path. Like, I think it's a very unknown industry. Yeah, on like you can get there. You said multiple like a farm kid can go be a pilot. Yeah, it's okay. Like you can do that. My my which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

There's more to fly than just being a professional pilot, too. You know what I mean? Like my fiance is just a private pilot, so she can fly an airplane just fine, but she just can't get paid for it. And a lot of um insurers specifically, they just have their own company airplane, and their people will just fly to like it's easier to fly to Oklahoma City than it is to drive. It's easier to fly to Hayes from here or Great Bend or whatever, than it is to drive a car.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I think I heard the flight to Wichita's like 17 minutes. Yeah, I mean, that's that's crazy. It's crazy. It's cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Um, and so it there's there's places, especially in you know, companies that that get around, especially Kansas, because it's just I know too from being a case stator myself, I know that there are some big farmers out west who will fly their private plane in for the Saturday football game.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yep, they'll fly to Manhattan, they'll fly right back home at night. So there's there's there's value. Yeah, but I just didn't know the path there could be so simple. It is. I thought it was like you gotta be military and you gotta grow up with a pilot, maybe. Or so it's interesting to hear you say, like, hey, you want to be a pilot, you can do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, it's both easier and harder, two different perspectives. It is completely accessible, and like the job placement rate is about a hundred percent, like which is awesome, it just is there. What people don't take into account is the grind that it takes. You have to do that.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

And that's where you were speaking earlier about. I mean, like, you gotta you gotta become a professional, or you or you can't, yeah. And you you mentioned earlier, anyone you you said this earlier, you could teach anybody to fly, yeah, but not everyone should, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

And they're especially dealing with the moms and dads, it's uh there's a halo effect on everybody's child, right? Like, oh, it's my kid, uh easy, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:33

He or she'll figure it out. She's so smart, he's so smart, he's got it.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

And so when they when they come to talk to me about the path, I think you know, if it's a 24 year old lived some life or whatever, usually I'm like, college isn't the the pathway to the airlines for you. You should probably go to like an ATP or a hip hop school and just do it as fast as you can and get out into the industry. But for your typical 18 year old.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

That I mean, mom and dad might have been doing their laundry last year, senior year of high school, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I mean, still have to tell you to clean your room. Right, right. You know, you're not responsible enough to know where the car keys are. Like just typical 18-year-old, you know, no more, no less. Oh, you might need four years to grow up.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

And to do it to do it right, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:21

To do it right environment that's gonna help you hold the standard is going to make sure you're on time, is gonna make sure you see all of our students are in uniform.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Yeah. Again, I'm blown away by what yes. I mean, Sharp on top of it. Yeah. Y'all's the the the 3D, what do you call the simulator equipment y'all have?

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Like, I mean, this is like a very structured environment where again, some of these kids last year were getting their laundry done by mom and dad. I mean, seriously, we're so we're producing professionals. Right. And that's different. I saw on, I saw on there, I saw on the bulletin, um, I'm not sure what room we're in, where whatever leads out to the to the runway. Oh, the op desk, yeah. Okay. The ops desk. I saw you had a flyer about flying to Gunnison, which hit me because my family has gone to Crest De Butte and Gramby. Yeah. And I know that Gunnison's a very high altitude air airport. So tell me about it. So y'all fly there, do like a look, kids get credit for it. Yeah. Talk about mountain flying. Like what's that what's that look like?

SPEAKER_01 45:15

So the mountain flying course was something that uh you know Bill Gross had when he was here, and it went away for years and years and years. And so for me, if we're building professional pilots, they have to understand risk because what we do is inherently risky. Every time we take off, there's a possibility we don't land. Now because of the way that we're trained, that's infinitesimally small. But it's because we train the way that we train, it's because there are the hour requirements that we require. We do not let pilots get to the airlines that aren't ready to fly. Right. Right. And so that's why you know you you you look at your pilot and you make snap judgments. You're like, who's flying me today?

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Sure. And I and I don't love the fly. I told you earlier, I'm not comfortable. Yeah, like I sit there kind of nervous, so like I'm always like looking at, all right, does this person look like they're capable?

SPEAKER_01 46:09

And that's what I teach my students. They're gonna look at you real quick. No, totally. Do you look the part? Do you sound the part, right? Totally. Oh, what was that? You know, and so you have to have the hands to do it as well. And so there's a bunch of skills that you have to have, and a lot of them are soft skills. You know, who doesn't love when the pilot's standing there when you walk on? Love it. Hey, good morning.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

No, totally. I mean, even I've had them fist bumps. Like, I love that, right? You get comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

And then when you're just, let's say, going from one flight to the other and you're wearing your pilot uniform, you represent that company.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

And so when a random traveler stops you and goes, Oh, do you know how to gate the E74? And you look at them and you go, Does it look like I work here?

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Right. Oh, right. No, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, red flag. That you're getting posted about online.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

But when that pilot knows and he's like, or she's like, yeah, that way, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Just keep going that way, it'll be on your left.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Yep, boom. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Wow, Delta pilots are awesome, or Southwest pilots are awesome. You represent that brand.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

And so I expect that of them here. They represent K-State for us. Sure. Whenever we do anything, whether it's flight team, women in aviation, air race, any of those things, they go out representing us. And so, as competitive as I am, I want a national championship for flight team. We're gonna take that from North Dakota and Emory Riddle. You'll get it.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

You'll get it.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

But more than anything, I'm like, I care less about your scores than how you represent us. That you finish through the line, that when it was a hard competition and you know you've lost, you still go up and shake the competitors' hands. That you look the judges in the eye and you're like, hey, thanks. That's awesome. But that that holds a lot of value. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's more important because you represent us, you're gonna represent those companies in the future. So building a professional is what we do here.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

And so, and so part of that we're gonna go like so back to the Colorado stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

So it's been it was gone for years, and and in the last you know, few years, we become very risk-averse as a as a country, really. And so we had to sell that it was. Oh, to reopen it. Yeah, okay. That was necessary. Because if we are, and the dean says this all the time, we want to be a destination campus. Because as Celina, we have to sell ourselves as different.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

You sound you sound like every other employer in Salina. Absolutely. But it's true. It is true. We're just a dot in the middle of Kansas, right? And so we got to sell it.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

So we have the Kansas State name, but even within Kansas State, how are we different than Manhattan? And the difference is experiences. We are an applied learning unit or college, and so how do we use that? And so you could go anywhere and just do, hey, I'm doing my commercial license or whatever, but here when we can add high performance, tailwheel, mountain flying, that sets differentiators. No, it's awesome. You know, I mean that's great. When I sold it, it's like this okay, inherently risky. And now we're taking this inherently risky thing into an even more risky environment.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

High altitude, different wind. I don't I don't know your world, but I'm sure that's a bigger challenge.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

And that's not great. Sure. But it's okay if you mitigate the risk properly. And so when we're sitting around the mission planning table, it goes, okay, and hack, what do we have today? All right, it's gonna be 90 degrees out there. We're already sitting at 10,000 feet. That means the density altitude is gonna be somewhere around 14,000 feet just for takeoff. What does that mean? We're gonna use all of this runway, and our climb out is only gonna be at 200 feet per minute. So you're gonna get uncomfortable here. But we've already mapped it out, you're fine. Uh, we're gonna circle here until we get up to altitude and we get into the mountain ranges. Once we do that, we're gonna expect uh we have some rollers coming over the mountains, and so we're gonna be pushed up and down the whole road.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

So uh wind pockets basically, rollers. Uh so wind. It's coming over the mountain, and it's pushing you up or pushing you down. This will be a student with an instructor. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

And the student is flying though, yeah, with an instructor there to take over if he or she needs to and we have class beforehand to teach them about that different environment. And so we're looking at what are the risks out there? All right, cool, those are risks.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

So this could happen, this could happen, this could happen.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

How do we mitigate those risks and and make it as safe as humanly possible? How do we put in you know left and right limits to make sure you see those risks and hazards before they become an issue?

SPEAKER_03 50:15

So again, you're you're thinking about even you know the peaks in this flight, and you know, okay, if we don't climb quick enough, whatever happened, we get a roller that pushes it, we can turn. We can turn and we have a valley here we can go through. We know that.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Here are places we can land, here are areas that are unsafe to land. So if you're having engine trouble before you get here, do not continue.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

This is incredible. Like this, that that is a lot of. I mean, we do risk in in my world, not to this degree. I mean, you're talking this could be life and death for yeah, that that's incredible. So you gotta you gotta check your boxes.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

We ran that whole risk analysis and we presented it to the dean, you know, my director of safety and my chief pilot together. Um, and we we proved to her that we were gonna bring everybody home safely, you know, and to her credit, she's like, okay, go.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I I think that's extremely awesome. How long so how long has it been back going? Just that was the first year. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

So we stayed in Gunison for a week and we flew the different students on different parts of the day. And it's it's also super taxing because there's a lot of mental empower going in there. So they are wiped afterwards, and then we hang out as a crew in Gunison. We go out to you know, lunch.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Hey, the Taylor Rivers right there, you go do some fishing or whatever, maybe go power, whatever it is. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

And so it's fun. Um, and our one of our most senior instructors leads that course, and so they're just picking his brain for stuff, or oh, so cool. They'll isolate me somewhere and they'll talk about leadership or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Which again, different environment away from school, but just a fun opportunity for them to learn more, get you guys again, you personal level, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

You become closer to them as a person, and they don't get to fly with me often either, which is cool for them, probably, which is a lot of fun, and so and fun for you too, I'm sure. Like, so it puts a lot of pressure on me because I'm like, oh, it's my landing, right?

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Oh, yeah. Well, okay, big dog shows how to do it. Yeah, you run the school.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

And but it's also another chance to show humility because if I mess up a landing, you know, but that's good for them to see that. Like I I I dork that up, my bad. Here's why it happened, here's what I did, here's how I'll correct it next time. And they go, okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Honestly, Ty, for for me in my in my life, in my world, I think some of the most valuable things is whenever we realize, you know what, the the people who have been the people who have been ultra successful are just human beings too. It's like they don't do stuff perfect. Yeah. I mean, I got we have bosses that don't do stuff right, but they they have learned how to overcome it or they've learned how to pivot and they can still get the job done and it's okay. Yep. That's cool. That's a lot of value in that, I think. That's neat.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

It shows it, it, it uh allows us to teach humility in a way, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Totally. No, totally. Because you're able to through a real life experience, humility, not just on paper. And hey, here's the definition of humility. Okay, go be go be humble. It's like you get to do it and see it, and they watch you.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Maybe I may have more hours than you, but I fly once or twice a month.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Right. So you so technically you have more proficiency. So these kids might be more sharp. Yeah, no, totally. Um, talk about so uh Tate out in maintenance. Tate was talking about you guys have the aviation world has standards y'all have to get a plane to, right? I mean, you gotta check certain boxes. So there's probably, and again, I'm just a very normal person. Talk, but the way I took it from Tate was there's a very simple checklist that every plane that's gonna go up with people in it is expected to meet. Yep. It it sounded to me like, you know, hey, it can almost stop there. You're good. You checked them. Right. But but Tate almost said, here, you guys are like, nope, we're extending that way further down this spectrum of boxes we're gonna keep checking to make sure, darn sure that we've done everything we can with this plane and make it. So that that to me is I feel that comforts me, number one, as someone who doesn't love to fly. Um, how much how much more can y'all do than what the aviation what's the code I'm talking about? What is it? What's the code called? What do you got to meet it?

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Aviation standards or what's there's there's minimum standards for maintenance, right? Okay, but when you're responsible for other people's children, they're they're 18, 19, 20s.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

No, no, they're they're children again. I'm a parent until my kid until I die, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:18

It's like you're responsible for my children. No, totally, and so that's a totally different standard. And so in my budget, I make sure we have room for it's like uh we could fly for you know 20 more hours on this part, and instead it's like just replace it. Oh, we this tire can be repaired, just replace it.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

So again, you'd you'd have been totally within code to do it, yeah. But y'all again, like you said, you these are mom and dad sent them to you. Our oldest airplanes you told them you're gonna take care of them.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Our newest airplanes are seven months old. That's incredible. Like we have the youngest fleet probably in the country. That's that's incredible. And we keep that because we want to make sure that we are beyond the standards of safety. Um, and we take that very seriously. So every every couple years we have a new five airplanes showing up.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

Which which is incredible. Uh, I mean, that's a huge asset to this, I think. Um I noticed in the the first area you took us through um where the helicopters were. Yeah, you had talked about like so that none of them are gonna go up in the air again, but the students those are hands-on with the engines, the engines that are out there that you're flying, but just not those. So they get to be like inside of a real deal daily, take it apart, put it back together. Hey, this piece messed up, you got to replace it.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Did you follow the steps?

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Right. And are you checking the boxes?

SPEAKER_01 55:35

And for our maintenance students, it's once you've done it and now you're signing off that aircraft, you better make darn sure, right? Lives, lives are in that in your hands and your signature saying that you would send your mom up in that airplane.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

See, and I think I think you said you could teach anyone to fly, not everyone should do it. To me, who's uncomfortable flying, I think it's maintenance too. Like, hey, absolutely. You could teach anyone to work on it, but not everyone should. Like, they have to have ownership and pride and and understanding that I just signed off and said this plane can fly, it better go right. So very cool what you're building out, like what y'all do out here is very cool.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Like, I it it's fun, and at the same time, it's it's just it fills your bucket. Sure. Because when these kids walk across the stage and pay for graduation, like you got kids becoming pilots, like that.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

That's it, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

We just had three this month, you know, uh start at the regional airlines and and pass their exams. Incredible, and it's just like every one of them, it's like, and another one.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

And another what is it, DJ Calor, right? DJ Cal. Another one, and another one. That's awesome. I love it. Yeah, so so much fun. So you well, Ty, so you taught, I I feel like what I gathered from it is through that weapons school, when they had you go back, hey man, we gotta we got a guy struggling. Like, can you come out and talk to him? Like, we see potential in him, but he's struggling. Yeah, could you come? I feel like you started then realizing that was part of your bucket. Like, hey, I kind of enjoy pouring into people because then do you say they had you multiple times go out there? Yeah. So over the course of the next couple weeks, so you sorry for the verbiage, but you fail out of weapon school, yeah, but yet they have you am I following this right? They have you come back and see a struggling pilot. Then how long to the next one? Like six months later, the next year?

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Depended, but I was so multiple times you go out. You know, fairly regularly again, uh, once I started being more comfortable with me, you know, because those are still my friends, those are my guys, sure, you know, and as new instructors got into the weapon school, there were people I trained, which is cool.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

And so they actually on a human level you knew them, and like just yet you cared about them from that perspective. Yeah. And so you start you start mentoring almost. Sure. You start mentoring to these again. The I the irony of it though, you're mentoring to get someone through what you didn't quite get through. Like that's a big step.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

That's a big step. So two two quotes that just they they kind of guide my life, right? People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, right? I I believe in that holistically as a leader. I have to care about my people first. I have to put trust in my people before they put trust in me.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Right. What Typina did before or didn't doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's about what you're doing because I care about you.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah, right now that I am here for you in this organization, right? And so there's that one. And then there's no limit to the amount of work you can do if you don't care who gets the credit. Right. And so that school, that mission, I believe in with my whole heart. And if I could just teach out there, I would do that. Because they believe in, you know, all the instructors being humble, approachable, and credible. And if you ask any of my students and instructors here, I say that ad nauseum because I believe that.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Well, I yeah, and I can feel it, I can see it as I walk around here with you. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Humble is not like, oh, you know, I'm not I'm I'm not getting that false, like, oh, I'm not good, you know. Right. No, it's like a basketball player or baseball player. If you don't believe in yourself, I don't want you on my team. Totally. As a pilot, if you don't believe you can fly, I do not want you behind the controls, right? Right. So humble isn't that false, like, oh, you know, right. Don't take credit. It's okay, right, right. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

It's okay for you to be totally, totally.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

But humility is I'm striving for perfection, knowing that it's unattainable, but I know that I can be better every day. And I'm willing to listen to anybody that will give me input to help me get there.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Right. Your credentials don't matter. If you have something to contribute, I want to hear it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

I learned more from my students, you know, as an instructor than I did from the books.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Which is, which is what that's what it should, that's what it should be. But it but again, it's hard to do that. I've so I feel like the weapons school thing maybe was your guiding diamond in the rough, blessing in disguise, whatever you want to call it, where it was a huge because that alters your life. You make it, you become top. I mean, you become the guy. I mean, you're you're there for life, probably. Yeah, and so I feel like that was a pivoting point that led you to where you're at today.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

The other thing is uh to continue on the path of like things happen for a reason. The way that I got to that through that five months, if they had decided, you know what, we know him, he's gonna be fine, it's gonna roll out, and they keep me there. In my mind, what I did there made me successful, right? Right, right. So all those things that fill my buckets, they're gone.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

And now I'm running on empty and and trying to because you think that's just that was right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

That's how it is, yeah. I was successful doing this. Yeah, I need to keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Yeah, by washing me out and making me reanalyze things from the ground up, like broken, but rebuilt, yep, it rebuilt me into something better. And so I like I I appreciate all of those guys so much. And you know, right now, my uh the my lead instructor that was there is now the wing commander down at at Tinker. And the I will argue one of the biggest uh blessings in my life is his son is in this program.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:51

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

No what and like when somebody knows you that well and they entrust their big it's the biggest boat of conference. What an honor. Yeah, what an honor.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

He's sent he sent his his own kid to you, like that that says all you need to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Yeah, and so I appreciate that and I'm humbled by that. But so humble, approachable, like be the type of person that when you walk through the hall, people want to ask you questions because too many times the people that know everything they come off as like, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Well, no, totally you don't know that one, silly you, right? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

But if you're the person that makes people feel heard and you understand the questions and you're able to lead them to the book, and you're like, oh dude, yeah, that's in you know this manual, and you pull it open, you show them, and you know, you want to be that person, so be approachable.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

That's that's the big to me, that's the biggest sign is be approachable, right? You can know it all or not, but like if someone's scared to come ask you a question, that's not a good leader.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Then you know everything for no reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

You're not you're not right. No one's gonna want to, right? Like you're not you're not contributing to a young person's development if they can't come talk to you on a real level, right? Or they're scared to ask you something. So I I commend you for that. That's that's number one. You gotta be approachable.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

The last one is credible because credibility is everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

You know, trust, earning trust is everything. But you say something that is patently wrong, totally, and someone finds out, you lose that trust. You truly lose that credibility, and that's hard to get back.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

I don't know that you ever, I mean, you're right. Do you ever get it back? I mean, if in my world, if I I mean it's tough. You gotta it's tough. I think you can it's okay to say I don't know, but if you're gonna say something with confidence and make a statement and back it and then it's wrong, and you and you might have known it, you didn't know it, that's it says a lot about you, especially in aviation. Like can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Yeah, so that's what those are the things that I try to teach my instructors and my students like be humble, be approachable, be credible, and you're gonna be great.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:38

Incredible. Uh that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

But yeah, the weapon school taught me that, but like I'm gonna take it even back further. You know, like uh my mom was a single parent growing up. I got to watch her in a factory first. You know, my grandparents, you know, kind of raised me there, but I watched her hustle. And then she got into ATT, and that was just back in the day when they had tapes. Oh, yeah. So she was the one that would change tapes. Yeah, switch her lines, yeah. And then she was in, you know, as a as a like operator person, and then she made it to management and moved us down to Atlanta from Boston, you know, and that opened up my whole world. And then my stepdad got introduced to it, and I never had somebody pushing me like in sports and stuff. And so I had that backing. And then now I'm in a whole new environment in Georgia that was bigger, you know, more opportunity, that kind of stuff. And now we're we went from like kind of not not poverty, but like lower, yeah, right, to like upper middle kind of thing. Yeah, so eyes are opening and I'm watching all this growth and everything. And you know, then at 16, my mom has my little brothers, right? And I watched, I got twins. Well they're they're 10 months old. Okay, okay, so close twins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to watch her be version two of herself as a parent. And growth is okay. And she always is like, I'm so sorry, I wasn't that person for you when you were a kid. And I'm like, Oh, absolutely not. Like, I got to watch you, I got to watch your faith grow. I got to watch you grow as a person, you know. I got to watch you become better.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

Right, battle battle through, like battle through all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

I was like, my drive comes from that and always she had my back, like always. And like one sorry, one quick story. Like, I never liked roller coasters growing up.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

Uh me either, growing up. I didn't either.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Yeah, and and we're at Six Flags in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

Six Flags Houston, I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

She knows my heart so much that I would always go and I'd go to the basketball thing and I'd go win bears and I'd bring it to a girl, I'd be like, Hey girl, I won this for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

I'm sure you won 20 bears because you could shoot.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

Yeah, so that was easy, and that's what I did. And so I came back to get some cash to go do that thing. Yeah, they're in line to ride the ninja. I'll never forget it. And she's like, Hey, question you want to be a fighter pilot, but you won't ride a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

It's a fair question.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

And I took it as such. It wasn't a challenge, it was just like, damn, she's right. And so I got in line with them, rode the ninja, loved it, and like, you know, because she understood my heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:01

Like, well, but but but again, like that that is the basis of what we're talking about. Like, you to that point, that was a risk you weren't willing to take. Like, I'm not getting on that roller coaster. I just didn't well, I just I can go over here. I don't need to go do that. But then by way of being challenged, yep, constructively, yep, hey buddy, like you want to go do this one day. Do you think it's not gonna be fast enough and down? Yeah, and then you go on there and you realize, oh my gosh, this is great. It's great. Yeah, I should probably can't get off the roller coaster that day. It's and so that's like sometimes we got to take a step and like say, okay, I'm gonna risk it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

It takes people to open your eyes. So you don't have these blind spots.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

Well, it's it's for me, it's like it's like, you know, some someone someone's gotta be a trailblazer. I'm never gonna be that. I'm not a trailblazer personality. Like, I'm not gonna be the first to climb some crazy deal or whatever. But what but once someone does it, we all know we can do it, or someone grabs your hand, like, hey, I do this every day. Come with me, come on. Like it's all good. I do it all the time. Like you could, Trevor, I got you. You don't like flying? I do it all the time. Okay, let's go with it. See, and that and I would trust you, and that would help me step outside of my comfort zone and take a risk, so to speak. Um, no, that's that's really cool. It's a neat, it's a neat story.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Weapon school, absolutely, but all of those at home, and yeah, and then coaches, basketball coaches that believe in you more than you believe in yourself. Like my high school basketball coach, I still all the time talk to him. Likewise, ROTC instructor from high school, like he came to my lieutenant colonel promotion, and it was everything to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

Um and again, like you're you're in and again, full circle life. That's that that that's gonna be you today to some of these kids. And that's what I pray for. Hopefully all of them, but some of them are gonna be some of them are going to be successful and and go on, and they're gonna be on a podcast one day, and they're gonna say, well, thanks to Typina, I'm I'm here because the guy believed in me and I was gonna fail out of that school, but he grabbed me by the shoulder one day and he and he redirected me and he cared and he and his staff cared and everyone around him cared. Um, and that it'll never leave their memory, and that'll make them who they are, and that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

You hit me in the feels there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

Well, it's it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

That's that's literally what I prayed for.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

That's what and again, we're being athletes. Uh my my foundational go-to thoughts are always my leaders, my ex-coaches. That that's who it wasn't about like a strikeout in that game, just for you. It wasn't about a 40-point night and high. It was about like your coach being there every day and kicking your ass and running you in the ground, but then loving on you and teaching you how to be a man and every step of the way, right? Absolutely. College were different, but they were just as impactful. And so you y'all are building again. You talked about culture. I think it's cool. Y'all are building that here and teaching these kids and and helping them become professionals and be not only talented and good at what they do, but care about what they're doing and understanding what they do has a wake. And you got to make sure that wake is is smooth and you're and you're gonna back it and you're not leaving stuff in that's gonna be destructive behind you or hurt people. Um, really cool, really neat.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Yeah, encapsulated.