Mario's Worst Prison Story — and Why It Ended Up Being a Good Thing

Most episodes of Reformed N Reel follow the climb back — addiction, prison, recovery, return. This one goes the other way: deep into what actually happens inside. Host Mario Hernandez tells co-host Wayne Burt the worst story of his last prison term — eight days in solitary at Orofino for something he didn't do. Mario was keeping his head down, working a video editing job in the prison school, aiming for a dorm placement. Then an inmate connected to the tier's correctional officer decided Mario "thought he was better than everyone." Days later he was surrounded, cuffed, and dropped in the hole on a fabricated disciplinary report — with no one willing to back the claim. He fought it the only way he could: by writing over the facility's head to IDOC Central Office, which investigated and dismissed the charge. It was the lowest point of his time inside — and the moment that proved standing on the truth, even from a cell, still works. The chapter that should have broken him ended up being the one that confirmed he was already on the way out.

Transcript

Mario 0:06

Welcome to Reformed and Real, where we take a journey with our people fresh out of prison, and we want to see just how the community around them really feels. My name is Mario Hernandez. I'm one of the afflicted people that got released back into the community, and we're here to try and figure out how this looks.

Wayne 0:21

And I'm Wayne Burt, curious onlooker who wants to know about our prison system, get to the stories beyond the stigma of incarceration. And because, like Mario, I believe all stories count.

Mario 0:32

They do. They do again. Yeah, even yours. Yeah, even mine. Mine. Which which brings us to that, right?

Wayne 0:39

Yeah. We we get the glimpses of a lot of people's stories. Yeah. Yeah. I think that when we go through these episodes, you know, often it in a half hour, mostly, it's like the path, right? It's like how somebody falls into the prison system, how addiction can be part of it, and then what they do to work their way back. And I think, you know, that's sort of the magic of this um series that we do is that we get a track with people as they climb their way back to being productive citizens. That's kind of the most common way to do it, right?

Mario 1:14

Yeah.

Wayne 1:14

Um, with that, we don't always get those sort of look deep down into what happens in prison. Right, right. And that's maybe what we're here to do today. I hope you knew about this.

Mario 1:27

Yeah, yeah, we talked about it, yeah. Uh yeah. So I mean, interesting stuff happens to people in prison.

Wayne 1:35

Yeah.

Mario 1:35

And uh very rarely is it good. You know, I think uh the good things that happen to people is they, you know, people find spirituality. Uh people hit 225 on the bench. Uh people people go to school. Um, but the behind the scenes stuff, there's uh uh a couple of things that matter, right? Uh who you're around and and what you're doing, right? And uh that's all monitored by the powers that be, correctional officers, and uh I guess that's what we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about a certain situation.

Wayne 2:09

Yeah, we're gonna talk about a certain situation. Uh I know that um there was a little bit of um glimpse into um, and I think it was Rodney Ariza that was talking about this about getting affiliated with the wrong group of people. Right, yeah. Because you're so locked into the crime world, right? Uh you you come into incarceration and those are the people you recognize because that's who you hung out with before you got incarcerated. And that can be a real spiral, can't it? Yeah. Yeah, that you really have to find a way to climb your way out of.

Mario 2:41

Yeah.

Wayne 2:42

You serve numerous stents in our uh prison system.

Mario 2:46

Yeah, I think uh three total, but uh inside of those three, probably a couple for each one on parole violations. So probably let's just call it about six or seven. Gotcha. Something like that.

Wayne 2:57

Yeah. So with that, you know, you experienced the whole gamut. But what was how would I phrase this? Tell me about tell us the worst story you can think of for Mario Hernandez.

Mario 3:12

Uh so that would be on my last term, um, which remind you, it it turned out good in the end because uh, you know, I I I found a way. Um, but you know, I had this experience up north, uh, and I'm not gonna give any names and tell on people and uh uh uh but I want to talk about it, uh, if that's okay.

Wayne 3:37

Absolutely okay. Yeah.

Mario 3:38

So uh, you know, I I I got arrested in Twin Falls. I went to prison here at the N Boise, and uh my family, my brothers, my sister, my girlfriend, or yeah, we're all living in Court d'Alene in Spokane. So when I was here, I I asked for a transfer to go up north to Orofino, and uh really I had no idea what I was in for. You know, I just thought it was just another part of the prison system that was gonna be just fine, right? I didn't, I didn't, yeah, I didn't know the dynamic there.

Wayne 4:08

Sure. Like they're a franchise where the food always tastes the same.

Mario 4:11

Yeah, yeah, but it's not. And it wasn't. And uh, you know, again, I'm not gonna talk about any people in particular, but uh, you'll know who I'm talking about if you're listening. Um, uh that person, those people. Um so uh, you know, I get there, right? And uh everything's good. I I figure, hey, you know, I'm just gonna do my time, and when it comes time to go in front of the parole commission, I'm gonna get out of here. And uh I really, really thought that that's the way it was gonna be. And um uh never doing anything wrong, never, you know, committing any offenses, never, you know, asking for problems, never hung out with anybody bad. Um, basically, uh, you know, so it's it was just uh it was it, I didn't expect this. So, you know, I get there, I go into the school, and um I was gonna apply to go to school because I wanted to do something with my time, and I figured, well, let's just see what's up. And I walked by this guy, he's uh editing a video, and I think I talked about this part right here. I think so. Yeah, um, but I didn't talk about the rest of the story. So um I did uh get into the school and uh I walked by this guy, he's editing a video again, and I thought, wow, um I think I can help this guy because video editing was my jam. So I helped him out, and needless to say, it's a long story short, I got a job in the school, and um I'm like, cool, I found my way to do to do better than just the average person while I'm in prison, so I can get out and never come back. Because that was my intention from the very get-go. I didn't figure that out later. I figured that out when I was in county jail, coming down off of drugs, looking at myself in the mirror and saying, that's it, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. So I made that decision early. So what happened was it threw me off. Um, so there's two parts to that prison. There's a part where it's like a maximum security, you know, it's uh like a cell living, and then there's another part they called McKellway, um, which is like dorm living. And that's where when you're following rules and going to school, that's where you get to go. Okay. And uh, you know, as soon as I got there, I'm like, oh, I gotta get into that spot because that's what I want to be. I want to be in the in the you know, the dorm living stuff. I I I walk by it and I see it, it's pretty cool, you know. And honestly, doing nothing wrong, just staying out of trouble. And uh so uh I'm work I'm working at the school, I get this job, I'm doing this stuff, and um I have this guy that's on my tier, and he uh he tells me, he says, Hey, um uh what's your problem? And I says, What what do you mean? What's my problem? He's like, Yeah, you think you're better than everybody because you're in their video editing? And I'm like, um no, I just I'm just doing my thing, dude. What's up? What's what's your deal? And he says, Well, you know, it's it's just it's funny that you're that you think you're better than everybody else. I'm like, I mean, it's funny that you look at me like that. Because, first of all, I don't think I'm better than everybody else. And if you think that, you must be having like an issue with what I do for some reason. Um, and that guy happened to be the janitor for um the CO on our tier that ran our tier.

Wayne 7:37

And uh one day, um Was the janitor also an incarcerated person?

Mario 7:43

Yeah, he's an incarcerated person, yeah. And he was like right-hand man of the CEO that was that she was in charge of that tier. And he happened to be a white power guy. Uh, you know, he just he looked he didn't like Mexicans, and uh, which is you know, I was gonna I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. Northern Idaho.

Wayne 8:05

So yeah, I mean it happens. Did he have 1488 tattooed on him? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah. One of those one of those symbols.

Mario 8:13

Yeah, so and I don't judge him for that, whatever. You know, everybody grows up different. So um uh one day I'm sitting on my bunk and I get surrounded by correctional officers. And I'm like, what? And I'm I I don't think they're there for me, but I'm like, I I stand up and they're like, no, sit down. And I was like, okay, what's going on here? And the guy goes, he says, now stand up and put your hands on the wall. Uh I put my hands on the wall and I'm like, what the what's going on here? Uh they handcuff me and they take me to the hole, which is a uh segregation, right? And lockdown. Um and I and I get to the hole, you know, they handcuff you, they well, they walk you handcuffed backwards, and then they walk you into the cell, and then they shut the cell, and then they open the little the little bean slot where they put the food through, and then you put your hands through there, they uh handcuff you through that bean slot, and then they leave you in there without telling you anything. They didn't tell me anything, they just said, Nope, this is where you're at. See you bye. And they just locked it, and I was like, What is going on?

Wayne 9:20

Yeah, and that's solitary, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mario 9:23

It's administrative segregation. Uh they call it the hole again. Yeah, one is the fancy word, one is what it really is. Yeah, yeah, it's the whole. Um, so you know, I'm in there and one day goes by, no word, another day goes by. Um, and I uh I might get a little mixed on my you know my days and times here, but it all happened in eight days that I was in there. Um uh I get a uh DOR, which is a disciplinary offense report, and said in the disciplinary office report said that I had been punching an inmate. And uh I said, huh? Punching an inmate, who? Like I'd never hit anybody in prison before. And uh they just shut the bean slot after they gave me this the paper and said, Well, basically we'll see you in court. So uh I don't know, maybe the next day or the next day after that, they uh tell me to put my hands through the bean slot, they handcuffed me, they take me to this room, and there's a sergeant in there. And he says, uh, he says, uh we have uh information, and he had a stack of papers, and he says, We have a bunch of reports here from these people that they say that you were punching a guy on your tier. And I said, Really? That's kind of crazy because I've never punched anybody in prison before. Never. I said, I have a 3-1 number, which is from 1989. I've been to prison six or seven times. I've never gotten into a fight, one time ever. So I don't understand this. And mind you, the uh it's just me and him in there. And and I'm trying to be factual and I'm not scared of him because I got nothing to be afraid of. Sure. I hadn't done anything wrong. And he says, You know, you sure are being a smart alec. I said, I'm not being a smart alec, I'm just telling you the way it is. I've never hit anybody in my whole life in here, ever. I've I think I've only been in one fight my whole life in the streets. And uh he says, Well, it says right here, we have all these reports. I says, Well, let me see them. He says, I don't need to show them to you. There's reports here. And he says, Did you hit uh this resident here? And I'm like, Never. I've never hit any inmate, and I'll tell you that again. I've never hit anybody. No matter what you say, no matter how you put it, I've never hit anybody. And he says, Well, uh, I think that uh we definitely have some problems here because uh I think with and it's with honesty. And I says, Yeah, it's on your behalf, not my half. It's on you. There's some dishonesty here, it ain't me. Yeah, and he's just getting madder and madder, and he says, Uh, well, maybe you were just horseplaying. And I says, No, I don't horseplay by hitting people. That's not how I horseplay. Yeah. And he says, So uh if this guy had bruises on his arms, and I says, Well, it wasn't for me. He says, Well, this these reports say so. And I says, Well, let me read one. He says, Well, no, I don't have to let you read them. I'm like, Okay, so what are you gonna do now? And uh, you know, I'm being like exactly the way I'm talking now is how I was talking to him because I was pissed. You know, I'm like, I'm not gonna let these guys take me down like this. And he says, Well, he says, you know, I think you did. He says, but let's a let me ask you this. He said, have you ever horseplayed in the IDOC system before? And I said, Well, yeah, everybody has. Everybody horseplays, you know? And uh he says, Have you ever horseplayed here in Orfino before? And I says, Well, yeah, everybody has. He said, All right, that's all I needed to know. Go ahead and take them away. They handcuffed me, take me back to the cell in the hole, and leave me there. The next day, I get uh uh the determination of the DOR, the disciplinary office report says that they found me guilty of horseplaying and punching that guy and putting bruises on him. And uh I was like, what in the F is going on? This is crazy. This these people are crazy. Um, he says, and your punishment is seven days in the hole. Um and so, oh no, no, it was eight days because that was eight days. It was already past the seven, it was eight days. Um so I did in addition to the eight that you're already dead. No, that was in total. Oh, gotcha. Okay, gotcha. So, you know, I get uh uh I get to where I'm just like kind of freaking out. I'm like, uh I'm trying to go to the parole commission. I got I'm gonna I want to go to board and go home. I don't want this on my record. And uh, you know, I I came out of the hole and everybody's like, dude, what happened? He goes, Man, you should have seen him. They were asking everybody all kinds of questions, trying to get everybody to tell you this, tell this stuff that wasn't true. And everybody's like, no, Mario's not like that. You guys don't know him. And uh uh it was funny because nobody agreed with the what they were saying. Yeah, um, but they found a way to find me guilty. So I wrote a letter downtown to uh Central Office, and uh they investigated it, and uh they found that uh I didn't do anything, so they dismissed the DOR, right? Um, so you know I'm like happy that day. I'm like, all right, yeah, you know, so yeah, I don't have this on my record anymore, so I'm cool now, and um, you know, I'm not I'm not worried about going home. And uh I'm walking through the hallway, and there's this specific person, and she never liked me for some reason. I don't know why. Uh she never liked me, and she still doesn't to this day, I'm sure. Was she the CEO of the tier? No. Okay. Let's just say she was the big dog in the place. Gotcha. And uh that big dog in the place saw me in the hallway one day, and she says, Uh, I need to talk to you. I said, Okay. And she took me upstairs to a lieutenant's office. And I won't, again, I won't put any names out there. Uh, he says, Mario, I got some questions for you. He says, So how are you doing? I says, Well, I mean, what do you mean, how am I doing? I just got put in the hole for something I didn't do. So do you want me to tell you good or you want me to tell you the truth and say, This place is crazy? That's what it is. This place is insane. And he says, Well, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm just wanted to make sure that you're okay and you're not gonna cause any problems. And I said, I never caused any problems to begin with. You know, and I'll tell you, I really don't, I really don't care because I got that DOR dismissed anyways. And she whips around in her chair with fire in her eyes. And she's like, What do you mean? I said, Well, yeah, you guys lied about everything you said. So I wrote a letter downtown. What do you mean, downtown? To the central office. I see. Which is not there. It's not there, it's with the people that uh administer all the prisons, right? The entire state. Yes. Got it. So they they asked questions, interviewed people, looked at all the reports, then they dismissed it. And I told her, I says, Yeah, they I got the letter that says they dismissed it.

Wayne 16:06

How how would she not have known that? I don't know. Because they would have sent people up to do the interviewing, yeah. To the to verify it or not verify it.

Mario 16:14

Well, when you do that kind of stuff, I think it's secret squirrel stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. So they don't yeah, they don't just tell everybody what they're doing. Uh yeah. So she says, and I said, I have the paper in my cell. You want to see it? She said, Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do. Let's go. So she followed me to the hallway into the unit where I was at. And um, she sat outside of my unit when I ran upstairs. When I came back down, there was another CEO down there that happened to be Mexican. And uh she goes, Oh, thank you very much for bringing this to me. Now I can get it taken off your record. Everything's gonna be okay. I'm like, that's funny you're acting like that because you weren't acting like that a minute ago. Yeah, you were being mean and rude and disrespectful, and now all of a sudden, because there's somebody here, I'm telling her this in front of this other CO. I said, Now that there's somebody here, you're all, you know, angels, peaches, and cream and cotton balls. I says, That's crazy. Uh so you know it it's funny how it happened. And then she took a picture of it with her phone and she disappeared. And um, like it's funny that uh like a little bit later. So I think uh this was such a like a really disheartening part of my time. Um like it hurt my feelings like bad. Sure. You know, and they don't get that. So you know don't don't I hope nobody thinks that like I'm trying to make the system seem bad because the end of this story is what matters, right? Yeah, yeah.

Wayne 17:42

Well, I mean, I do find it impressive that you were able to write a letter and there was pretty quick follow-up. In fact, that happened really quick, didn't it?

Mario 17:51

Yeah, within within two weeks.

Wayne 17:52

Yeah, that's really great. Um but it also sounds like there's was quite a secret society that was sort of constructed against you your skin color.

Mario 18:08

Um, you know what? I I honestly thought so. But you know, I don't know. I don't know. Um I think it's really hard for some people to think that um I guess if let's just call it they had pets up there, right? Like a favorite student and stuff, right? And I wasn't one of them. Um which I don't understand why, because I really worked hard to be one of them, but they didn't let me be one of them. Well, how long were you there before this started happening? Right it was right away. I mean it it it it right away I started feeling heat from them. They didn't they didn't want me in that honor dorm area. They didn't like me. They didn't want me there.

Wayne 18:51

Yeah. Were there other um were there other Mexicans in that honor dorm? A couple. Yeah.

Mario 18:59

You know, not many. Yeah, not many, yeah. Um and I really don't I can't attribute it to that. I don't know. Um yeah, but I mean I honestly felt like it, though. I'll tell you that right now. My honest gut feeling is yeah. Yeah. I told her, you know, that I mean I said it a couple of times. You just don't like Mexicans, what's your deal?

Wayne 19:15

Yeah, well, as you're looking for an answer or a reason, yeah, you know, those things do. Because it wasn't because I didn't do occurring to you.

Mario 19:21

Yeah, yeah. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, then you gotta do what? Find out or think about like what is it? Yeah, what is it? Is it the way I walk, the way I talk, the way I look? And the way I look was the most prominent one of all of them. Yeah. So, you know, like I said, um, you know, I was another like week went by, and I'm sitting in the chow hall eating lunch, and and I hear Hernandez uh 31231. Come to the lieutenant's office. And I said, Oh, geez. Dang. So I got finished my lunch, my dinner, and I walked up there, and you know, the whole time I'm I'm pissed, you know. I'm pissed because I don't there's nothing good that can come about where I'm about to go to. Uh nothing good about it. Nothing good can happen.

Wayne 20:10

It's not to give you a commendation.

Mario 20:12

Yeah, yeah, it's not to say, Mario, you're so awesome. Um, so here's your affirmation. Yeah, I have a great here's a certificate, my friend. Thank you so much. I love you guys. Um, you know, but they when I walked in there, um, there's that person again with the other person again. Both one of them was like the third in command or fourth in command, and the other one was in command. And uh this person turned around and looked at me and says, Are you targeting my COs? I literally looked around, looked around behind me. That uh is there somebody behind me that she's talking to? And I was like, What are you talking about? And I said, and I said it just like this What do you want now? What can I do for you? And uh the comment was, Well, we hear that you're targeting our CEO, sending your minions over to harass this CO, which is the CO that was in charge of that unit that had the pet guy that was, you know, uh white pride guy that did, you know, that did all that, right? And uh I was like, uh I was pissed. And I'm like, I said, I don't, I don't even know. Am I in the freaking Twilight Zone? And I didn't use the word freaking, right? I said the real word, the effing word. I was like, Am I in the freaking Twilight Zone? Yeah, and she says, Well, I have reports that there's people going up to this CEO's unit and harassing her, and we think that you're sending them. And I literally said, I said, you guys are insane. You're insane. Get me the F Out of here. I want to go transfer back down to the main site facility down in Boise. I want out of here. And that had Person said this, quote unquote, you ain't going anywhere. Because it's going to look like we're retaliating against you, and I'm not going to do that. And I said, You're not retaliating against me. I want out of here. That's me asking for it. That's you sending me when I want to go. She says, Well, you're not going anywhere. I was like, Oh my god, I'm stuck. So now it does sound like a prison movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is exactly a prison movie.

Wayne 22:29

Well, and yeah, you wonder if maybe they got their tips from prison movies.

Mario 22:35

Yeah.

Wayne 22:36

You know what I mean?

Mario 22:37

Yeah. And it you know, it's a funny thing, and and I lost Wayne, I lost a lot of sleep because of that.

Wayne 22:42

Yeah, I could see how that can make you pretty nervous. Yeah. I mean, you're watching your you're looking behind your back all the time, right?

Mario 22:49

Always stressed out and crying in some cases. Like I was sad, man. I was like, what am I doing wrong here? Because my heart had changed. Yeah. My heart had changed. I had a whole while I was in county jail years before that, I had a change of heart, and I figured, you know, I'm I'm gonna change my life. And uh this was happening, and I was like, Well, I mean, I really don't know what to do. Well, she ended up telling me, get out of here, uh, get out of my face, basically. And I left. And you just left the office. Yeah, left the office, yep. So they have this thing that they have a dog program up there that they really, really like because they train dogs for the pause program. That they, you know, they have that program all over the state. And uh is that is that a companion program?

Wayne 23:34

What is the pause?

Mario 23:35

It's called paroling animals with skills. Oh so that's gonna that's the next part of this conversation. So, um, because on the video editor, they wanted a dog training video produced, and the teacher, instructor at the school asked me if I would do it. And I'm like, sure. Mind you, that person that's in charge didn't ask me. Mind you, the dog program guys didn't ask me because most of those guys were white pride guys, too. Okay. And uh, and most of them were just jerks to top it. I mean, really, is just jerks. And uh uh it was funny, man. It was really funny. I had one of the dog program guys come in, and he was the the biggest white pride guy there that there was, and uh he was there for murder, and uh could you tell because you you knew it?

Wayne 24:25

Oh, everybody knew it. Okay, and and and so that was just scuttle butt in the in the facility. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't that you saw like a marking on his face or just knew it. You just people learn about other people. Yeah, that's where that came from.

Mario 24:40

Yeah, yeah. Everybody knows who's who in there. Um so the guy comes up and he sits next to me while I'm editing a video and he says, What's your problem? And I was like, Oh my god. Here we go again. What what do you want? I was just like that. What do you want? Yeah. And he says, Well, you're editing the dog training video, and you're not a dog trainer. I'm like, Yeah, I'm a video editor. He says, Well, we should be the ones doing that, not you. And I said, Okay, but the school asked me to do it, so I'm doing it, and uh, I don't know what to tell you. At that time, they had the inside out classes going into uh into the prison where it was basically you take college credits, and I took a criminology sociology class in there, and uh, you know, all those dog program guys were all in that class, and it was all dog training guys, not and there was very few other people. They get you know first pick of everything, and because I worked in the school, I got to join in too. Um, so uh, you know, it's funny that all these people they just hated me, like hated everything about me. They hated looking at me, they hated anything that I did.

Wayne 25:53

So that was down the line with the dog training people?

Mario 25:56

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was all uh I mean, there might have been a couple that like white power was a prerequisite to getting into the dog training. No, it was hater. Haters, they're just a bunch of haters, like they didn't like the fact that somebody was doing something that was getting like that that was cool and it wasn't dog training. Yeah, right? And there was and I'll tell you that a part of it, like that one person, if he's listening, which I hope he is, you know who you are. When he tried to he tried to manhandle me and shake my hand and try to show me how strong he was inside of the school. And I says, you know, I just suggest that you just get out of my face right now. I don't think you're in the right place right now. And uh he gave me a dirty look and he took off. And so we're in class, and one of those guys was picking on a black guy in class, calling him the N-word, telling him, Hey, let's go in the bathroom and do this. Like we're on a live Zoom with uh with uh uh a doctor instructor while these guys were fighting. The guys calling the N-word during class. And I looked at that, I touched that black kid on the shoulder and I said, Hey, don't bite on this, you're gonna lose. And that guy, the dog program lead, which happened to be the person in charge's little pet, right? Uh, that guy looked at after when I told him that he heard me tell him, he heard me tell him that, and he said, Do you want some of this too, Mario? I'm like, No, I don't. I don't want any of that. I got up, grabbed my piece of paper, I was taking notes on, I threw it in the trash can, I walked the other to the next room over, which is where my editing bay was in my little office area, and uh I sat down. And uh class ended. You know, they they dispersed, and the next day they uh called a meeting, and in that meeting, uh all three of the people in charge walked in, and the one in charge looked at me and she pointed her finger at me. She said, You, what's your problem? I'm like, What are you talking about? I was watching on the video, you crumpled a piece of paper and threw it in the trash. I'm like, So? I said, Do you want to know why? Or do you even care? And she says, No. She goes, What's your problem? Tell me now. And I says, Well, I'll if you'd really gotta know. I mean, this guy was trying to pick a fight with this guy, and I try to stop it, and then this guy called me out. And uh, you know, I just don't think it's fair, you know, that that they hold this position of authority in this place, and they are this guy that was doing that also teaches conflict resolution to people in this prison, and he's sitting there calling them out. The funniest thing happened. That guy raises his hand, he goes, So what? You think you deserve an apology? You think you're special? I'm like, Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do deserve an apology, and I do think I'm special. Yeah, you're right. I'm a human being and I deserve some respect. And and you you uh threatened my freedom by trying to start a fight with me in class. And uh so the funny thing is the other person in charge looked at me, pointed his finger, and he says, Come here. He uh I stood up and they're talking to me like I'm freaking two years old and and I'm incorrigible, right? And he says, You're fired, go pack up your stuff. You can't work in the school anymore. You're not allowed to walk into the school, you're not allowed to come anywhere near the school. I was like, All right, okay. So I went and went to go pack my stuff, and he says, No, on second thought, we'll pack your stuff. I'm like, okay, whatever, dude. Whatever. I went back and some funny stuff happened. Like, you know, it was just like everything just felt so weird, and I didn't really know, you know, uh what happened. I had no idea what was going on, how it happened, and man, it it it honestly gives me a stomachache. Yeah. You know, uh when I think about it.

Wayne 30:01

Well, yeah, I mean, incarceration or not incarceration, unfair is unfair. People do, despite what many people think, have an interior sense of justice. Yep. And uh if you feel like that is just going off the rails, it just makes ethical people sick. Yeah, you know, yeah. I get it. Yeah, I get it. It sounds like really the project was to uh teach as many people to walk up to you and say, What's your problem? Yeah, it sure felt like that. Because it all started the same way, yeah. That is ridiculous. Yeah, so you think it was system-wide uh uh uh project to make people of color feel uncomfortable?

Mario 30:47

I believe so. I mean, I don't know for sure. Um I uh but I believe so. And and mind you, there's different administration at this uh you know in corrections now than there was then. Uh it's all different.

Wayne 31:01

Yeah.

Mario 31:02

So um I don't know, that happened on a Tuesday, and uh on a Thursday, uh they finally put me on a bus and got me out of there. Oh yeah. So they did, they could have done it way earlier and saved themselves a lot of stress.

Wayne 31:18

Yeah, they probably could have.

Mario 31:20

Yeah, they didn't have to be mad the whole time, they could have been doing something else, like focusing on helping people, you know.

Wayne 31:25

Yeah, perhaps. Although maybe that was part of that was abandoned long before you got there.

Mario 31:30

Yeah, yeah, you know. So one part I did forget to tell you is I did go and see a case manager, and the crazy case manager told me this.

Wayne 31:39

And this might be the case manager inside the facility.

Mario 31:43

Yeah, got it. And this case manager, I won't say a name, won't tell them who it is, tell anybody who it is, just like I'm not giving out names today. Told me he says that person that's talking to you like that is corrupt. And that case manager worked for that person. So, anyways, uh that made me feel better because then I knew that it wasn't me. Yeah, well, I knew it wasn't me to begin with, but that just made it seem like everybody else that saw what I was going through knew that it wasn't me too.

Wayne 32:11

Yeah, I mean, there's no question you can feel that way, that you're right, but that doesn't change how you feel when you're absolutely isolated. Right.

Mario 32:22

Yeah. So um, you know, I get on the bus and I go back to Boise, and man, I was happy. I was happy. I'm like, all right, man, I'm so glad to get out of that place. That was a nightmare, and I never want to go through anything like that again. And what how am I gonna, you know, what am I gonna do? Because they told me I couldn't work in the school, I couldn't even go to the school. So, you know, I get to to uh the receiving facility here at uh the main site and um medium security. Medium security, yeah. Yeah, that one that we went to, the RBC. Medium custody. I went back for another round. Uh-huh. I was there for another week. Yeah. Were you better at it the second time? No, no. But I mean, I had it, I had, I think I had had some food, so it was pretty good. I mean, it wasn't so bad.

Wayne 33:04

We talked about it as being disconcerting no matter what. Yeah, right. Yeah. Um, I do find it kind of funny uh that it's called uh, you know, reception.

Mario 33:14

Yeah. It's the anti-reception, right?

Wayne 33:17

Yeah, like you're at a you know, the R stands for reception, right? Reception and diagnostic unit, I think. Yeah. Like you're, you know, cutting up cake at a after a wedding or something like that. Yeah.

Mario 33:30

Yeah, it's a weird it, it's uh it's an oxymoron kind of.

Wayne 33:35

Yeah. So you go back.

Mario 33:37

Yep. So I go back and I get out of that play, put me in a housing unit, and they put me in a in a good one. Like I had I went to this housing unit, it was two man cells, and they were like good. It was like little bedrooms. And I was like, Oh, that can get I mean, I got like two and a half years to go, I can do it right here. I'm fine. Yeah. And I went to the school just kind of, but the so I gotta tell you this the principal to this school here that where I landed at at the regional diagnostic, and after that, that guy had gone up and done a tour of Orofina while I was up there. And he says, if you ever find yourself down here and coming down to Boise, he says, if you want to take a transfer or anything, he goes, You can come down here and I'll give you a job to school doing what you do there. Yeah. And I mean, I just I didn't think anything of it because I had a good job. I was like, Oh, yeah, thanks for the opportunity. But no. So when I got down there, I set him a kite. He said, he sent me one back. He says, Yeah, I'll see you as soon as you get uh uh make you an appointment. Uh so I went in there and he says, Man, you don't want to know how you don't know how good I feel to see you here. He says, He says, I am so glad. He goes, We're gonna do a video program here and it's gonna be awesome. That's great. And I was like, and I felt like good again. Like I went through two years of feeling sad um to go feel good. And um were you up there for two years? Oh almost, it was almost like it was like a year. Well, I mean, all the time RDU and then all the transferring stuff.

Wayne 35:04

It ended up being two years, right? Like uh, but you're talking about Orafina.

Mario 35:09

Yeah, that was actually stretched out pretty far. Uh probably six months or not.

Wayne 35:12

Because the story feels like it took place over like two and a half weeks.

Mario 35:15

It didn't. It's I'm just I'm cutting out all the all the other stuff, you know, the working out and stuff, which is what I did most of the time. Sure. So uh, you know, anyway, so I I get uh I get to the school and he says, Man, uh I want to give you a job, but I can't. He says, It says in your file here that you can't go and you can't work in the school for six months. And he said, but I'm not stopping you from volunteering if you want. I said, Oh, okay, I'll volunteer. He said, Well, you gotta volunteer for six months. And I says, Well, let's do it.

Wayne 35:50

Good for you.

Mario 35:51

Yeah, yeah. So we did this thing, you know. We uh I started the and I started uh like working on projects for the school, and uh, you know, then we ended up uh, you know, COVID happened. I did the COVID trading videos for them, and I kind of made a name for myself and started like, I mean, I felt good about what I was doing, Wayne. Like I felt like these guys were really like uh um you know, making me feel like like I was really worthy of doing good stuff and like I belonged uh in a in a group of people that were doing right, and I and people looked up to me, other inmates slash residents looked up to me and they would ask me for help and it felt good. I'm like, sweet. I mean, like where I just came from, those guys all hated me. You know, here these guys want to learn from me because of my experience in video production. Yeah, and uh, you know, we did some great things. And because and at that time the administration was all changing over wardens, deputy wardens, chiefs, deputy chiefs, probation and parole, everybody was moving around.

Wayne 36:48

Yeah, um by design of some larger governing body, or was that just natural turnover?

Mario 36:54

I think both. I think both, because I mean, uh, you know, uh, we went from a certain type of administration to another one to where those people were like, hey, you know what? What are we gonna do to help people get better? Because truly, uh, one of the heads of IDOC told me something once. He said, Um, true public safety can't get achieved until people get better. Yeah. And that's the perspective, right? Yeah. So instead of like trying to make somebody feel like they're garbage, they try to make somebody feel like they're good so they can get out feeling good, so they can do good things in the community.

Wayne 37:31

Yeah.

Mario 37:32

And that's the the great part of the story is it was miserable for those first two years. And uh, you know, that Orfino place was the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life. I never had anything. I mean, prison time, jail time, court sentences, treatment programs, uh, you know, uh drug deals and all that, none of that was as bad as what went on up there.

Wayne 37:52

Yeah.

Mario 37:53

So the final part of that story is uh, you know, I I go in front of the parole commission and they asked me about this thing that happened in prison because there was some documentation about it. There was a DOR that they read, they knew it, but then they said it got dismissed, right? Because I got it dismissed. And I the lady goes, Well, tell me about this DOR. I said, DOR. And I said, Well, I don't really know what happened. I just know that I didn't do that. And I was trying to get out of there, and I don't, I don't know. Uh, you know, I I'll apologize, but I didn't do anything wrong. You know, I was just trying to just get by. And the commissioner said, Hold on a second. We're not looking for you to apologize. I just asked you about it. You just told me about it. She goes, I'm looking at your notes here. And she goes, and I'm also looking at what was written about you from the second that you hit the main site back here, and you have people backing you up, and and you have done a wonderful job here. And I want to read this quote from one of your uh uh supervisors, and he said, Um, Mario single-handedly changed the face of education by bringing the media program here. And uh I was like, I didn't expect that. And uh she says, So I'm gonna go off of that. Um, not what could have been, or what I'm looking at is like things that happen that doesn't really that that aren't true. And she goes, I'm looking at you, I hear you talk, I see what you've done, and I realize, and I'm looking, and I think these guys all realize too that this isn't you, whatever they were trying to paint. She goes, So don't you think everything happens for a reason, Mario? And I says, You know what? I do I think everything happens for a reason, and I think that I came back here to fulfill everything that I needed to fulfill to make something good of myself and to grow in a way that uh I could never imagine. And uh she says, All right, um, well, we're gonna go ahead and let you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah. That's great. So the end of that chapter and on to a news story, right? So, you know, I get out, I get out of prison. And mind you, I had started the media program up north Northino. I started another one at uh the main side of the yard, and then they moved me to a minimum custody when I got my parole date, and I started one at the farm, the minimum custody. And you know, I'm trying to leave a legacy, you know what I mean? I want to I want to leave something cool for everybody behind that people remember forever for them, right? Sure. Something that can help people. Yeah, absolutely. And I I feel like I did that. Um, so after coming back out, I I started a nonprofit called Learning How to Live where we're sitting at today. Yeah. Um, and uh it's funny because I got asked to speak at an education conference. I'm like, oh heck yeah, let's do it, man. I'm ready. Let's go. What day? As they told me the day, I went over there and spoke. A citizen, actually. No, it was uh administrator, like all the schools, uh teachers and uh and all the wardens of uh uh uh I think it's called programming, which is like the assistant warden. So through the prison system. Yeah. Got it. Yes. Funny story. So, you know, I'm looking around and and I'm talking and telling what I, you know, how how I started learning how to live and what we do and why we do it. Yeah, and I look over to the corner, and the guy that fired me is up in the corner. And I'm just ignoring him, dude. Like I'm not I'm and I can see that every time I scan the room that he's looking at me. Well, I mean, I thought for a second I was just being paranoid, right? And uh uh PTSDs at PS PTSD like crazy. I was like, I don't even know if I was scared, I don't know what was going on, but I felt weird, right? Sure. And uh I finished my part and uh answered some questions, and finally I'm like, all right, okay, well, and I finished, I walked away and uh the meeting ended, and I talked to uh uh Ted Aparnico, he's uh the in charge, he's uh um I think he's the manager of programs, um, is his position. I'm not really sure. Anyways, we're just talking. And he says, All right, Mario, we'll talk to you later. Thank you for coming here. We appreciate you. And I says, Yeah, you're welcome. And I go to walk away, and that person walked up to me. And I was like, Hey, how's it going? And he says, Uh, can I chat with you for a minute? I'm like, Yeah, you I mean, I'm leaving. You you can we can you can talk to me outside if that's okay. And he says, Yeah, yeah. We walk outside and he comes up to me and he's got this sincere look in his face, and he says, I want to apologize to you for everything that happened to you up there. Wow. And I I too I, you know, I I I kind of tear it up a little bit. I welled up, I didn't cry, I just teared up because it was you know what I what you know what came to my mind? Um I've been waiting to hear that for a long time. Right? Yeah. I'm like, man. You know, I I told him, I said, you know, I've been waiting to hear that from somebody from up there for a long time. I needed that. Yeah. And he went to shake my hand and I gave him a hug instead. Yeah. And uh I said, thank you. And he says, Yeah, you're welcome. He says, you know, I just uh really appreciate what you do today. And uh, you know, so I I mean I walk away feeling better. Right, because um I was kind of affirmed, you know, like it was uh I don't know, it just it was it I was affirmed. Like my whole the way I felt was finally um recognized, like yeah, you know I feel like we did it bad.

Wayne 43:36

Yeah, that's meaningful.

Mario 43:38

Yeah, yeah. And I didn't I don't really and it wasn't really like coming from him that made it any better, it was just like coming from out, period. Yeah. And uh Yeah. I wanted to brag about it to everybody, but I didn't, you know? Yeah. Um except for my mom.

Wayne 43:55

Yeah. Well that stuff puts a spring in your step. And I think also um you know it was validation that you weren't that you weren't crazy. You knew you you knew you weren't. I knew I wasn't. But when the real world reaffirms that, it's never a bad thing.

Mario 44:16

I don't know if you call that the real world, but the people you know Yeah. The opposition. I don't know what to call it.

Wayne 44:24

Well, I tell you, I don't mean to be, I don't, I don't mean to be insensitive, right? But yeah, sometimes that my mind works in those comical ways. If that were an episode of Seinfeld, you he would have walked up to you and he he would have said, What's your problem? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the end of the story. Yeah. But uh it worked out a lot better than that.

Mario 44:45

Yeah, yeah, of course. That's great.

Wayne 44:47

That's great.

Mario 44:49

Yeah, it I think the message behind that, Wayne, is like that's just one. You know what I'm saying? How many people, and I'm not, and I think now the way the administration is is uh formed and what their mission is nowadays, there's less of a problem with that kind of a thing now than ever. But how long has this prison system been like that?

Wayne 45:12

Yeah.

Mario 45:13

Where it just takes finding a target and beating it up.

Wayne 45:17

Well, absolutely, and uh you know, you've got to believe that every single pocket of that is not disappeared, you know, that it still exists in places. And I guess that's really just the human hope, right? That we all uh walk out in the streets and treat each other better, you know? Us us foolish idealists can continue to believe that.

Mario 45:40

Yeah. And you know, uh, and don't and I hope nobody out there thinks that I'm just like feeling like I'm the only one that's ever happened to, because that happens um police officer to civilian, that happens uh a boss to co to employee, that happens co-worker to co-worker, like it happens everywhere. Things like that where people don't like somebody. And I think I said this to you before, like when people practice practice personalities before principles, yeah. You should, I mean, and they they they they that's the wrong place to be.

Wayne 46:14

Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a bar fight mentality, right? Yeah, someone just says, I don't like the way you look. Yeah, exactly. And then you get in the fight, and then the next day, I don't know. I don't think you derive any greater meaning out of your life for it. You just you just have a beat up face. Yeah.

Mario 46:33

Why does your smile look so stupid at the bar? You know, um, I don't know. I was born with it.

Wayne 46:38

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Wow, what a what an interesting story. I mean, when you were telling the story, there was still like some heat behind it. Oh, yeah. So it still sticks with you a little bit.

Mario 46:51

Yeah, because that person still makes me uh feel uh creepy crawly because of the shadiness and the disrespect and the then the like cowardness of that person's using their position of authority to uh to do something to somebody that they didn't like for whatever reason.

Wayne 47:10

Yeah. Well, you showed a lot of restraint. Um you're not feeding into some sort of setup like that was. So good job. You also advised other people to not take the bait, which is really good. But do you feel like you're better equipped to steer clear of stuff like that now, even outside of prison?

Mario 47:32

Oh, it happens, yeah. Even outside of prison. I think that definitely made me stronger.

Wayne 47:37

Is it people uh I mean, do people judge your former incarceration or uh is it just natural human encounters where it's just natural human encounters.

Mario 47:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've had people uh, you know, come in and um it's weird because you meet certain situ, you know, certain kinds of people in certain situations and um not everybody's uh you know nice, um, for lack of a better word. Yeah. I mean, I've had people come in and say, Hey, where's my clothes at? I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, don't you give away free clothes? I'm like, I mean, I just don't give them away. Um, but yeah, I mean, are you uh did you just get out of prison? No, I got out three months ago, but where's my clothes at? I'm like, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I says, uh, just so you know that uh I don't have to help you, but I'm going to anyways. Because you have been out for four months uh and you're calling me because obviously you need something, and I'm not gonna argue with you about it. And I don't have to give it to you, just know that. This is my store. Yeah. And but I'm still gonna give you uh some stuff so you can get by. Yeah. Uh that person ended up writing a review on our Google. The only bad review we've ever had. Out of 175 reviews, the only person that's ever written anything bad about us was that person. And I still, you know, I I wrote him a message back on the Google review. I'm like, well, you know, it's the same that you think like that because we still gave you everything you needed. Right. And uh, you know, and we didn't have to. So, you know, good good luck on your mission. And uh learning how to live is behind you.

Wayne 49:12

Yeah.

Mario 49:12

Good for you. Yeah, please, sir.

Wayne 49:15

May I have another?

Mario 49:16

Yeah. You know, it's it and we all deal with that, Wayne. Like, you know, it's and it's not it's never gonna stop. You know, uh and life is always tough. And that's what we tell people that are getting out of prison. You know what? Just because you get out, it's not gonna be a hunky dory, bud.

Wayne 49:34

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, we all get tested and we all encounter people of different personalities, and there are people that if they get into your brain, you're like, why does that person not like me so much? You know, it's very human nature. And I don't think, you know, I think the mistake is just go, well, they're blah, blah, blah, right? And try to categorize them in some simple way, because it doesn't really work that way. You gotta kind of let it pass through you and move on. Yeah. We all get tested, and we even get tested more now that this um, you know, this thing called social media is out there.

Mario 50:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Wayne 50:13

And I don't know what the right approach is, like if you internalize things that happen, you know, things that get said about you on social media. It feels like you want some middle ground where you have that filter. You can say, Oh man, what a vehicle for the the worst parts of human behavior, right? Yeah. But you maybe don't want to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Mario 50:40

Right, yeah. Yeah, and nothing gets better unless uh you know everything's in the sunlight. Yeah. You know, when the sunlight hits Oh, yeah, you've said that. Yeah, yeah. Sun is a cure for everything. Yeah, that's dark. That's it. That's right.

Wayne 50:53

Yeah, it's a cure for my pale skin. Yep. Mine too. I got sunburned this weekend. Good for you. Uh, well, um I don't know. Do you want to do a little lightning round real quick? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, shoot me some questions. All right. Okay, I have a few questions. And when we do these interviews, I'm always like, all right, is this true or isn't it true? Right. So all right. Um, did you ever get a tattoo in prison? Yes. You did. Yes. What did they make the tattoo ink out of?

Mario 51:23

Okay. So I never got one in Idaho, so let's get that straight first.

Wayne 51:28

Yeah, but what is that? I don't even know what that means. Because it's because it's a worse like stigma to like have gotten it in Idaho.

Mario 51:35

No, because uh, you know, then it would be me not telling the truth about me not causing any problems or getting any trouble, right? Okay. So it's a California tattoo. It is actually. So I did some prison time in California, and uh that's where I got my tattoos, and I'll tell you how they used to do it. There's two ways.

Wayne 51:54

Okay.

Mario 51:55

So one is a chest piece way, they light the chest piece on fire, um, and it burns, and it uh the smoke goes up and it builds up. And I'll tell you what they do is they put it underneath a bunk, a metal bunk, and uh that burns, and then the soot gathers up on the the bottom of the top bunk above it. Yeah. And that they scrape that off and they mix it with baby oil, and then that's your ink, black ink. Wow. So, but that wasn't the good way. Um the the good way that was the that anybody could do is you get uh mineral oil or baby oil. And we used to have you remember the Vienna can of sausage, the Vienna sausage cans? Yeah. So you get the bottom one and you fill it full of oil, right? And you get another can and you scrush it around the sides so it fits over the top of that. You poke a hole in it, and you use a shoelace as a wick, and you put the shoelace into the oil, uh, and then you got obviously, so now you have it looks just like a candle, right? Yeah, you light it, and then that burns the oil that soaks into the shoelace that is constantly burning. So uh you again you put it underneath. There's two bunks, you put it on the ground uh underneath the bottom bunk, and you put uh blankets around so no smoke goes out, so nobody can see all this smoke everywhere. But people still smell it, right? People get fucked doing it. Of course. So again, what it does is it builds up like a stalagmite. Or that would be a stalacite coming from the top down. Yeah, hang on tight, stalactite, stalactites, stalactite, and it just and you'll when when it's done burning, you'll see these little cones that look like upside down cone incense. You know what I'm talking about? That's what it looks like, and they just scrape those into a little bowl and they mix it with some baby oil or some shampoo, and uh then that's the ink. Wow, yeah, oh, interesting, or they just find somebody to bring in and smuggle tattoo ink and they do it like that too. Oh, I see.

Wayne 53:56

Yeah, I'm sure they do, yeah.

Mario 53:57

But the most common way is those ways, like burn stuff.

Wayne 54:00

Okay, so it's a myth that sometimes they use urine. That is a myth.

Mario 54:07

Nobody would ever get a tattoo with pee.

Wayne 54:12

Again, prison movies. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um, is it true that people that uh incarcerated folks will try to transfer prisons to be next to a really good ankster? Yes. Ah that is true. Can they state that as a reason?

Mario 54:29

No, absolutely not. It's against the rules.

Wayne 54:31

They have to fake it. Yeah, well, you whatever tattoos are are illegal in prison.

Mario 54:35

Yeah.

Wayne 54:36

Uh everywhere.

Mario 54:37

Probably the main cause of people getting extra time. Um, without going too much in the weeds, just real quick, people get extra time for getting caught for doing tattoos all the time. They do. And uh I don't know if if the people out here in the community realize that people get handed one, two, three, four, five, ten years extra all the time for just a tattoo. So they need to change that rule, anyways.

Wayne 54:56

Yeah. What amo what do people get tattoos of?

Mario 54:59

Everything. Yeah. Some of the best artists you'll ever meet are in are in prison.

Wayne 55:03

Okay, so this is the real quick lightning round, and then we'll wrap up the show, right? Okay. So um, teardrops, what do they mean?

Mario 55:11

Well, I don't know what they mean here, but in like California, the older prisons, uh, that meant uh you murdered somebody.

Wayne 55:17

Gotcha. And and it usually doesn't mean attempted murder because I I read where it also meant attempted murder. Oh, maybe that would be a half a teardrop. A teardrop that isn't full. I think it's like empty, like the outline of the thing.

Mario 55:31

It doesn't really mean that anymore. I don't think they do that anymore.

Wayne 55:33

Yeah, I think it just caught imagination when people thought about it. Okay, uh, is there a tattoo of a clock with no hands? Yes, I've seen it. Ah, and that means someone's in for a long time. Yep. Are there other representations of that? Yes. What are you?

Mario 55:49

I've seen gravestones with clocks on them.

Wayne 55:52

Yeah.

Mario 55:53

Gravestones with years on them. Yeah. Um balls and chains with clocks on them. Yeah. Um so many different things. Yeah, right.

Wayne 56:04

Anything that depicts eternity.

Mario 56:06

Yeah, guard towers with clocks on them. Yeah.

Wayne 56:08

Yeah. Guard towers. Huh. Um I think that's it.

Mario 56:15

Okay.

Wayne 56:16

I saw one that had um that was five dots, right? And the dots were in a square. Meaning those are the walls of the prison, and there's a dot in the middle of it, and that's the person. Well that I mean, that's not very imaginative, is it? Never seen that. But I mean, if you just have crude anksters that don't have wild artistic talent, you can see tattoos like that. Yeah. You can see dumb ones all day long. Yeah. Well, that's where prison and society have something in common. Because I can't tell you the dumb tattoos you see. No regerts. Yes. Yes. Or the neighbor I had once who had a tattoo with his wife's uh first name, but he got divorced. So he took a pen knife and scraped it out and then wrote in grease pencil the name of his new wife. Oh, yeah. In really bad penmanship. I was like, all right. Nice. However, however you need to do it. Yes. I guess love, I guess love marches on, you know. Yeah, yeah. Cool. All right. Well, I'll have more dopey civilian questions for you later. But uh I'm always ready. This is great, Mario. Thanks for giving us a glimpse. And uh, you know, again and again, I marvel at the way you overcome stuff.

Mario 57:36

Yeah. Thank you.

Wayne 57:37

Good to have you as um company, not only in the podcast, but as a friend.

Mario 57:42

Thank you.

Wayne 57:42

Thank you, everybody.

Mario 57:43

Thank you for joining us right here on Ford Real. We'll see everybody next week. Next week.