Episode 2: Bill Allen

Who else would I want to interview for this inaugural podcast interview than Cru Jones himself, Bill Allen, the star of the BMX Movie Rad. I sit down for a nice chat with a friend about how he was cast for Rad, the cult following it has and the impact the film has had on BMX culture and culture in general.

keywords
#BMX, #Rad, #BillAllen, Tony, #80smovies, #cultclassic, film industry, nostalgia, BMX culture, acting
takeaways
'Rad' has a significant impact on BMX culture.
Casting can often be a matter of timing and luck.
The film 'Rad' has developed a cult following over the years.
Many fans have seen 'Rad' hundreds of times.
The movie's release was poorly timed for its target audience.
'Rad' is part of the fabric of 80s culture.
The film has inspired a new generation of BMX riders.
Fan loyalty for 'Rad' is evident in annual screenings.
The bicycle industry has largely ignored the film's impact.
Bill Allen continues to work on new projects related to BMX.
summary
In this engaging conversation, Bill Allen reflects on his experiences during the making of the cult classic 'Rad', its impact on BMX culture, and the enduring loyalty of its fans. He discusses the casting process, the film's legacy in the 80s, and the surprising lack of recognition from the bicycle industry. Bill also shares insights into his current projects and the notable fans of 'Rad', while reflecting on his journey as an actor and producer.
titles
The Legacy of 'Rad': A BMX Phenomenon
Behind the Scenes of 'Rad' with Bill Allen
Sound Bites
"Many fans have seen 'Rad' hundreds of times."
"'Rad' is part of the fabric of 80s culture."
"Reflections on acting and personal growth."
Chapters
00:00
Introduction and Initial Thoughts on 'Rad'
05:58
The Impact of 'Rad' on BMX Culture
11:57
The Marketing and Reception of 'Rad'
17:51
Camaraderie and Sportsmanship in 'Rad'
24:25
The Legacy of Rad and Its Cultural Significance
30:33
Lessons Learned from Acting and Filmmaking
37:29

Transcript

Tony (00:12.282)
Good morning, Bill.

Good, man. Good. How about you?

Bill (00:16.622)
Did you? Good, did you go see Wizard of Oz?

Tony (00:20.962)
I did, in fact. It was fantastic.

Bill (00:23.15)
Crazy as that, Unbelievable, right?

Tony (00:27.207)
it's so good. You saw it. I take it.

Bill (00:32.503)
Yeah. Yep.

Tony (00:34.798)
Yeah, just an incredible show. They should do that for Rad. We should have Radded at the Sphere.

Bill (00:41.848)
That's right. They only spent $100 million on the restoration. That's nothing.

Tony (00:47.32)
I mean, you know, if every fan chips in 10 bucks.

Bill (00:53.72)
Somehow the fact that Rad was number one per screen average when it was released this year has escaped everybody. I don't know why, but I had a night this year, Tony, where Rad, I'll take all the credit for it because everybody else is dead or in jail, beat

Tony (01:04.058)
K F

Tony (01:09.145)
That's crazy.

Bill (01:20.984)
Tom Cruise's stupid movie. Did I say stupid? Great, great epic movie. So for Hollywood to not go, hey, look what happened. Looky here. They just, it's kind of, there's been a big blind spot. And I'm rectifying that as we speak. We got some BMX projects in the works.

Tony (01:24.432)
Great, great epic movie. Right.

Tony (01:43.106)
Yeah.

Bill (01:49.579)
but why it took me to reach this advanced age to go, guys, let's go, let's go. So that's mostly what I'm doing these days is kind of just get that ball rolling and there's a lot of cool stuff. Let me close this door real quick.

Tony (01:54.179)
Hey

Tony (02:07.851)
that.

Tony (02:12.29)
Alright.

Bill (02:21.6)
So are we live?

Tony (02:23.407)
Well, we're not live. I'm doing this as just a recording and this is the first time I've done a video podcast really. So it's kind of interesting and it's been a learning experience. Let's just say it that way. For all the podcasts that I've produced in the past, it's been an interesting challenge.

Bill (02:31.967)
Okay.

Bill (02:46.399)
Well, Sherman's had the same challenges, even though he's had this wildly popular podcast, it's all shot out of the Friendship Club. So if you could help him with this technology, we need all the help we can get.

Tony (03:00.585)
any time. mean, I always love talking to Sherman. So, so let's let's backtrack since this is the inaugural interview of the podcast. Tell everybody what what it was like, how you got involved with the movie.

Bill (03:05.898)
So...

Bill (03:22.285)
okay. Let's see. I was on a TV show in 1984, maybe, called Hill Street Blues. And I gotta say, I'm pretty proud of that fact. It was known at the time as to be a show for real actors. They got the best New York actors they could find, had really good scripts. So when I was a teenager watching Hill Street Blues,

Tony (03:47.791)
So when I was a teenager...

Bill (03:51.825)
It was a groundbreaking show. There had been a lot of cop shows on before, but now this new gritty era of cop dramas was really kicked off by Hill Street Blues and it was a great show. And now I'm 19 years old, still in my teens basically, I think, and I have a really meaty role on Hill Street Blues where I get to cry like a little girl and a moat and it's a whole character art on a very popular show.

Tony (03:59.823)
of confidants was really kick-off.

Tony (04:11.202)
had a really neat hole.

Bill (04:20.992)
which was kind of must-see TV back in the day, remember that phrase? And so Hal Needham saw that episode that I was on not once, but twice. And the second time he was in the midst of casting Rad. So that was all unbeknownst to me. I didn't know he knew me from Adam. I was just another actor meeting some big director. We didn't have the internet back in the day. I just knew he was the Smokey and the Bandit guy, okay?

Tony (04:23.087)
Right. Right

Bill (04:49.797)
And so they brought me into the office. They brought me into the office with Hal and Robert and Sam. I think it was, that was it. There was a Molleuse bike sitting there and I sat on it. I'm not a reticent. I might not have. It was just, it was a meet and greet basically. I probably read a scene or two and then that was it. That was the casting process for me. It was not grueling. Hal knew what he wanted. He knew the kid who could he believe pull it off.

Tony (05:05.91)
I probably read a scene or two.

Tony (05:14.954)
out, what he wanted, move the kid who can he believe, it off.

Bill (05:19.779)
and I was lucky enough to be that guy. I've come to appreciate casting as a happenstance. You're at the right place, at the right time, the right age, hopefully, and you may not be the best actor for the part, but you get the part because you're standing in the right place and have the skill set or the looks or whatever the weird combination is or somebody owes you a favor. You never know why somebody is on a movie set. There can be a million reasons, literally.

Tony (05:21.742)
lucky enough to do that guy. I've come to appreciate casting as a happenstance. You're at the right place, at the right time, the right age, hopefully. And you may not be the best actor for the part, but you get the part because you're...

No sand or bumps or whatever.

Sure.

Bill (05:49.135)
And so I could go into that later. But yeah, so Hal put his money on me and he was not afraid of anything. He was the toughest ombre in any room he ever walked into, you the number one stunt man in Hollywood. And so by the time I met him, that's kind of how he went through life as this like big text, bigger than life character. And he invited me under his tent.

Tony (05:58.08)
afraid of anything. was the toughest hombre in any room he ever walked into. know, the number one stuntman in Hollywood. And so by the time I met him, that's kind of how he went through life as this like big text, bigger than life character. And he invited me under his tent. And I'm like, I'm here. His last five movies were with Burt Reynolds. You know, so what? Okay, I'm alive. Right.

Bill (06:19.411)
And I'm like, I'm here. His last five movies were with Burt Reynolds. So, okay, I'm arrived. So when the movie didn't do so great at the box office, I'm like, nah, I guess I haven't arrived yet. And it wasn't as gutting an experience at all. I'm an actor and I'm like, well, this is just part of the journey. And it would have been great to have this franchise take off in the eighties, but maybe not.

Tony (06:28.256)
didn't do so great at the bar.

Tony (06:36.941)
at all. I'm an actor and I'm like, oh, this is just part of the journey. And it was a great to this franchise take off in the eighties, but maybe not, you know? So I'm looking for the things I've had and avoided too. But you had no idea that it was going to take off in, the VHS world.

Bill (06:46.141)
You know, so I'm lucky for the things I've had and avoided too.

Bill (06:59.058)
I mean, I wasn't aware of the chronology, but I knew this was going to find an audience. I knew people were going to lose their minds when they saw a backflip on a bike and all these great riders doing what they did for the first time. Mostly guys like yourself seeing these tricks played out that they only saw in magazines. And so, no, I had an acute awareness that there's going to be life before rad.

Tony (07:17.119)
Yeah.

Bill (07:26.642)
and life after Rad. And I was really correct in that thinking because I meet so many guys today who that was the formative experience in their life. I mean, I'm exaggerating to make a point, but not really. Watching this movie, understanding that they could do the same tricks with a lot of work and some time in the ER. If you're not afraid of busting your friend, you know, you're not afraid of busting your face repeatedly and losing some teeth.

Tony (07:29.261)
not correct in that thinking because I meet so many guys today that was the formative experience in their life. I mean, I'm exaggerating to make a point, but not really. Watching this movie, understanding that they can do the same tricks with a lot of work and sometimes they eat all

Right. your face repeatedly, losing some teeth, then you can do this. You can be part of the club. And it really showcases the club feeling and that circle of friends who were around you and were doing the same thing. you know, there's always a standout in those kind of situations. Normally there's a standout tower and green rises to

Bill (07:55.236)
then you can do this and you can be part of the club. it really showcased, Rad did, the club feeling and that circle of friends who were around you and were doing the same things. But, you know, there's always a standout in those kinds of situations. Or normally there's a standout talent and cream rises to the top. And so it just, was informative for so many people on so many levels.

Tony (08:17.972)
and so it was informative for so many people on so many levels so i didn't take that into account but these kids would rent it at blockbuster watch it twelve times a week and even take their tv monitors with an extension cord out back so if you could literally watch the tricks while they're trying to farm them

Bill (08:22.474)
so I didn't take that into account that these kids would rent it at Blockbuster, watch it 12 times in a weekend, even taking their TV monitors, you know, with an extension cord out back so he could literally watch the tricks while they're trying to perform them. And, and I got to make out with Lori Loughlin, you know, when she was 23. So that's pretty much my, well, it was, that was my job is to be that guy and

Tony (08:43.885)
Big bonus there.

Bill (08:51.604)
to kiss the girl and to argue with Talia Shire, who by the way, was fairly fresh off three best pictures, Rocky, Godfather I and Godfather II. I mean, there were no bigger movies at the time. And now I'm standing opposite Connie Corleone slash Adrian. And now I have to be that guy. So people bought it.

Tony (09:06.624)
I there were no pictures.

Bill (09:18.383)
And I had some chops by that time and here we are, 40 years later, still talking about it.

Tony (09:24.012)
40 years later nobody else could have played that part I mean I can't picture it so you you you are

Bill (09:31.495)
Well, this is a question that this is the question that pops up occasionally on online when I choose to click on the computer. It's like, who could have played that part? Well, frankly, a lot of people could have. But what I love about the Rad Army is they got all they get all incensed. Like, how dare you? Bill Allen is Crew Jones. I'll take that. You know, that's pretty cool because there's a lot of warriors out there and

Tony (09:45.131)
or whatever.

Tony (09:50.343)
Eric. Bill Allen is from Jones. I'll take

Because there's a lot of

Bill (10:00.766)
Mine are tougher.

Tony (10:03.463)
It's crazy. mean, such a loyal following. There's two different types of people. There's people who've never heard of Rad, and there's people that love the movie. That's it. that's the crazy experience about that whole thing is like, know, it's what other film has that much of a cult following? There's a couple, but I mean, rare.

Bill (10:29.577)
Well, again, yes, you're correct. It doesn't have the brand awareness of many, many other films. And if it was number one at the box office this year, if a rad documentary that was released this year was number two on iTunes and performed very well, it's just like, yeah, it's not a cult thing. This is an 80s cultural phenomenon that is as much a

Tony (10:30.474)
again.

Tony (10:45.068)
perform very well.

Tony (10:50.987)
80s.

Tony (10:55.403)
that part.

Bill (10:56.041)
of the fabric of 80s cultures as, you know, the Goonies or Thrashing or North Shore. It's in that wheelhouse of these action sports movies that really kind of took hold. you know, it was kicked off by on any Sunday. And then kids saw Bob Harrow and his buddies in ET and they lost their minds. And then, you know, a few years

Tony (11:00.843)
or thrashing North Shore. It's in that.

Tony (11:11.914)
Yeah.

Tony (11:24.779)
Speaking of Bob Harrow, I'm wearing one of his shirts right here.

Bill (11:27.152)
There you go. I mean, it changed everything. So the bicyclists would clue in on these little scenes in, you know, any Sunday or ET and kind of clue in on that. So when they got their own whole movie that completely focused on BMX, that was just like catnip to the kids who are ready to see it at the time. So I want to think that it was a marketing issue. That's why it wasn't

really properly received at the theaters. It was directed towards like a 17 year old crowd when it was really 12 and 13 year olds who really took to this movie.

Tony (11:57.567)
Interestingly, I was 17 when the movie came out and I saw it the night it came out myself and four of my friends went

There were probably nine people in the theater that night. And I went back to see it a couple of days later. It was gone. Like it died in the theater.

Bill (12:27.666)
Yep. And that was quick and painless. And then it was on video. And for years, it was in the top 20 rentals at Blockbuster, at least. And it was always on the...

Tony (12:40.696)
man, I went to my local video store and every weekend I got videos to watch on our VCR, which was kind of a luxury for our family. And if Rad was in, which it often wasn't, then I would rent it for sure. And I would watch it multiple times on the weekend. was just, it's just such a great film and it still holds up. I I've seen it.

I only saw it one time on the big screen at first, but then I saw it at the 25th anniversary, which is where I met you actually, at the Arm and Hammer Museum in Westwood, California.

Bill (13:22.126)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I do remember that night well. And yeah, it's taken on a life of its own. You know, if somebody tells me, yeah, I've seen Rad, you know, four or five times, I think to myself, you really haven't seen it then, have you? Yeah, really, guys, you gotta step it up because the people who show up at these events that I go to occasionally, they've seen it.

Tony (13:39.113)
Yeah, you're not a fan.

Bill (13:48.613)
hundreds of times. I can't calculate that in my mind. I can't fathom it. I'm a film guy, have been since I was a child, and the most I've seen any movie is maybe 10 times, you know, It's a Wonderful Life on a semi-annual basis. But man, the way people have taken to this movie, it's almost a category of its own. Think of a movie that is re-released every year.

Tony (14:04.381)
Right.

Bill (14:16.62)
and keeps growing in stature. And the fact that it was held back for decades and then re-released right around the pandemic, I mean, it kind of just exploded because people were stuck at home on their phones and watching their devices. So that all kind of played into what's happening now, which is next year's the 40th anniversary. So that's pretty exciting.

Tony (14:20.515)
back decades.

Tony (14:32.243)
the hell.

Tony (14:39.401)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the 40th, but the annual showing is crazy. mean, you see these stories of people driving hundreds of miles to go to their closest theater to see it. And just to see that level of fan loyalty, know, you and I have gone to a few around LA. And I think one of the first ones we did was Downtown LA. And that was

an anomaly because it's so high. It took, I picked up Sam and we drove for an hour and a half to get 11 miles to downtown. That's how bad LA traffic is. And there were probably what? 30 people in the theater, including us. Yeah.

Bill (15:26.22)
Yeah, yeah, that's a dopey theater nobody goes there Most people I get a lot of facetimes on rad night and It's invariably from packed houses and some friend of mine will go I got crew Jones on FaceTime and people go eat shit But so many theaters are packed across the country with little or no advertising

Tony (15:29.96)
Yeah.

Bill (15:51.694)
I understand Hulu took out some paid ads or they took out some paid ads with Hulu, but I never saw any ads outside Facebook and not everybody's on Facebook. So somehow the word gets out and people will drive hundreds of miles and bring their kids and dress in the rad racing gear. It's unbelievable. And what's even more unbelievable to me, Tony, and I'm trying to fix this is that phenomenon.

Tony (15:58.15)
right

Tony (16:12.614)
it's unbelievable. And what's even more unbelievable to me, Tony, and I'm trying to fix

Bill (16:21.887)
is I would say 100 % ignored by the bicycle industry. The audience that this is geared towards, and you know more about this than I do, how many bicycles do you think RAD is responsible for selling?

Tony (16:27.942)
Yeah

Tony (16:39.592)
Oh man, I mean that was kind of the height of BMX both freestyle and racing at in 86. A lot.

Bill (16:40.942)
man!

Bill (16:51.907)
You can't quantify it, dude. We just know. It's like, okay, when a popular group adapts an instrument, then all the kids want that instrument and they go out and buy that instrument. It's the oldest thing in the book. And so for the bicycle industry to ignore what RAD has done, well, the automotive industry didn't ignore how with NASCAR.

Tony (17:06.245)
Right.

Bill (17:20.138)
or the Trans Am, right? They celebrated it. So I'm calling the bicycle industry out to make this a part of their agenda. it, contextualizes, is that a word? The sport and the lifestyle and the attitude. And it's a, it's a film that I'm happy to.

Tony (17:22.983)
Right.

Tony (17:35.467)
Yeah

Bill (17:46.937)
to have on my tombstone as my achievement because it celebrates camaraderie not killing your enemy, right? To me, the hero of this movie is Mark Taylor when he waves crew on and now they're mano a mano. This is the greatest moment in that movie and it's a great moment in sports history movies because

Tony (17:51.047)
because it celebrates camaraderie not killing your enemy. To me the hero of this movie is Bart.

Tony (18:13.073)
history movies because it displays that. We're not there to kill our...

Bill (18:15.008)
It displays that we're not there to kill our competition. We're there to see who's better that day. And then we'll see who's better tomorrow. It's that kind of thing that I well, I think the world needs this message.

Tony (18:24.695)
It's a great story and people, you know, have to realize that Bart wasn't the bad guy in the movie. Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, I I wonder how many kids went out and bought Mongoose bikes and didn't go out and buy Murray bikes, which is an interesting thing that that wasn't really addressed in the film.

Bill (18:46.605)
Well, yeah, it's funny. mean, Mongoose is now a Walmart brand, right?

Tony (18:54.342)
More or less. Yeah. A lot of brands have gone that way. They've gone to the mass market just to make more money. know, I mean, if you, if you go back in time, Stu Thompson rode for Huffy and he's a big dude and was one of the fastest racers ever. And I guarantee that that was not an off the shelf, Huffy that he was riding. There's no chance.

Bill (18:57.892)
Yeah.

Bill (19:21.9)
Of course. Yeah, I don't know the game well, but I do know that Rad is responsible for selling about a billion bikes, give or take a billion. And, you know, I've been escorted out of BMX events, like at Mongoose booth in the Grands. It's like, yeah, Bill Allen can leave now. So it's just a weird discon...

Tony (19:48.486)
Why would they kick you out?

Bill (19:52.034)
Well, the actual reason is I hadn't paid a vendor's fee. And now I'm at the Mongoose booth and creating a little stir. And they weren't having it. So I was asked to leave and that's happened on more than one occasion. Personally, yeah, it's annoying. But really, there's not too many stars in this sport, like recognizable personalities.

Tony (20:03.64)
Yeah, they were they weren't having

Tony (20:11.172)
is annoying, but really, not too many stars.

Bill (20:21.486)
So that's a weird disconnect. And I ignore it because I'm running my own race. And if these guys don't want to get up to speed with my crew, that's fine. We're going to do these things anyway, not because they're easy, but because they are hard. because it does have an effect. Kids will go out and buy bikes and try these things.

Tony (20:29.496)
Right.

Bye, crew.

Tony (20:36.762)
these things anyway.

Bill (20:51.446)
where they wouldn't have otherwise. And these guys are likely to profit from it and not give the people who kind of helped create this momentum any credit or money. That's okay, Tony. Dude, I'm two steps from a fucking great. And listen, Ben Franklin, he didn't patent the lightning rod, right? He could have. He just invented it and went and understood this is good for the...

Tony (20:55.982)
are likely to profit from it.

Tony (21:01.477)
is momentum.

Dude, I'm two steps from fucking great. And listen.

Ben Franklin, he didn't patent the wife of God. He could have. He invented it and understood this is good for humanity. And I understand, or my point of bicycles are good for humanity. So that's my...

Bill (21:21.155)
for humanity. And I understand that, or my point of view, the bicycles are good for humanity. So that's my raise on debtor these days. And sometimes I get paid for it, sometimes I don't, and I don't really care. Some of my happiest days had been my leanest days as a starving artist. So that doesn't scare me. yeah, whatever. And now...

Tony (21:31.877)
Sometimes I get pain for it, sometimes I don't, and I don't really care. You know, some of my happiest days have been my amist days as starving artist. So that's it.

Good.

Bill (21:49.494)
The guys I'm surrounded with like yourself are accomplished individuals in decision-making positions. And now I'm finding my rad team and we're moving forward with a lot of cool stuff.

Tony (21:50.116)
The guys I'm surrounded with, like yourself, are accomplished individuals in decision making positions.

Tony (22:02.948)
That's awesome. Tell me about some of the more notable people that are fans of the movie that you know of.

Bill (22:15.087)
well, Ed Helms comes to mind. I did an interview with him for one of the rad releases a couple of years ago before the movie started. He, yeah, he was a interviewer on that. Let's see. I mean, you'd know as much as I do.

Tony (22:23.022)
that's awesome.

Bill (22:35.995)
I know the action sports guys, the Travis Pastranas, you know, really I met, is it Robbie Madison?

Tony (22:45.688)
Yeah, yeah, definitely him. I'd love to have him on this show.

Bill (22:47.898)
I met him a couple of years ago. Well, he couldn't have been nicer. And if you're not aware of Robbie, he's the goat of Supercross. I mean, he's just unbelievable. There are guys on his level, but you could count them on one finger, basically. And so it really found its home with athletes. And so the Tony Hawks.

You know, like I said, Travis Pastrana's, the Ryan Nyquist, guys are superstars in their own sports. It was part and parcel to who they were. And it created this, this movement that's now, you know, Nitro Circus and the X Games and the Olympics. You can pretty much draw direct glides right to rad to where a lot of this fire took hold.

Tony (23:23.876)
fourth.

Tony (23:30.692)
Thank

circus and the X Games and the Olympics, can pretty much draw direct lines right to where a lot of this fire took hold. Yeah, it's crazy. mean, just amazing. Who was the Olympic BMX racer that was dying to meet you? Shurm told me this story. Your brother.

Bill (23:56.146)
Donnie Robinson, he won the bronze, I think the first year. Yeah, he's an amazing guy. And again, these super athletes who took their cues from that movie often as children, and it just made it intelligible for them, whatever sport and a lot of kids obviously didn't go into the sport, but it translates, follow your gut, that kind of thing. And so that's very powerful for a lot of people.

Tony (23:59.032)
Donnie's awesome.

Tony (24:12.228)
Whatever.

Tony (24:21.356)
Right.

Bill (24:25.803)
Fans I meet now, it's a good mix of guys who went into the sport of bicycling or BMX and just movie fans who just love the movie and the story and the moral fiber of it.

Tony (24:43.309)
Just amazing. mean, it had an impact on me for sure. And I understand how it has an impact on other people. It's funny, I was doing a project, a video project for Intel and the owner of the house that I was filming in and I were talking while I was getting lighting set up and he...

Somehow the movie came up and he's never been into BMX or anything, but he has a copy of the movie on his phone, watches it once a week. I mean, that's the kind of fans that are out there. it's just, yeah, mean, God bless all of them. And I count myself as one of them, obviously. and happy to have you as a friend.

Bill (25:28.917)
They're out there.

Bill (25:42.183)
Well, we're super pals, Tony, and we've got a lot of fun ahead of us. yeah, just oftentimes I think Hal did too good of a job in that kids think that that was a reality and that I can do those tricks. And now they want to know what happened after Bart handed me his bike. Nothing happened.

I went to the unemployment line. It's just like, this is a movie. So I'm so glad that Hal and his supporting cast and crew were able to pull off this magic trick. I was hanging out with J. Miron, I want to say about 15 years ago, the great J. Miron. And he said,

Tony (26:25.792)
able to go up.

Tony (26:33.794)
on 15 years ago.

Bill (26:40.038)
I still hear people say that Crew Jones is still out on the circuit racing.

Tony (26:45.974)
Hmph.

Bill (26:47.162)
this blows my mind. Do they not see the credits or do they just not believe it? It's like, well, who's Bill Allen? I know who Crew Jones is because he's still out racing. So it's now taken up with a certain crowd who asked me if I did my own stunts. It's taken on this kind of mythic status, this Robin Hood kind of did it happen or didn't happen? Who cares? It's a cool story. We'll go with the myth.

Tony (26:58.988)
Take it away.

Tony (27:04.297)
on this kind of like stack.

Did it happen or didn't happen? Who cares? It's a movie. You're supposed to have that suspension of disbelief and just roll with it. it really worked in that movie.

Bill (27:26.016)
Apparently so. Apparently so. Wigs and all, It just, it's still, again, hats off to Hats off to Hal. Because what movies are are basically misdirection and magic tricks and creating things that didn't happen. Although I know Hal was very much into making stunts practical and doable and believable. So that was the construct behind Rad, except for...

Tony (27:37.078)
Yeah.

Tony (27:51.138)
unbelievable.

Tony (27:55.828)
for the bicycle-boating sequence. When the lights come up and I've got lines going from toe toe, now we're going back to the candy gun. Never had been done, never will be.

Bill (27:56.254)
the bicycle boogie sequence. When the lights come up and I've got rhinestones head to toe, now we're doing things that can't be done, never have been done, never will be done on a bicycle. So the sequence and the fact that we're just doing crazy stuff that's not represented in the rest of the movie make me think that the most famous section of the main part of the movie is just kind of cruise fantasy. That's what I think.

Tony (28:11.886)
Well, okay, let's talk about that day. What was going on that day?

Bill (28:29.567)
I was puking in my shoes, dude. We had a softball game Sunday night or Sunday the day before and we ate a bunch of KFC and pretty much everybody got sick except for Hal Nito because he was all ginned up. There's nothing bad that could limit his system. But yeah, I was I was on death's door pretty much that shoot. just remind remember lying under the bleachers going, please just kill me now.

Tony (28:32.083)
We have it.

Tony (28:58.837)
You know, I know that story and every time I watch the scene I don't see it.

Bill (29:04.121)
That's why they call it acting. that is, that is that, well, again, that's what we do. And that's the hardest thing we do is if that's the last place you want to be and you're supposed to be acting like it's the only place you want to be, now you have to dig deep, you know, because the camera, as they say, does not lie.

Tony (29:06.433)
You did it very well.

Tony (29:23.009)
Holy.

Right.

Bill (29:32.695)
And so it's all trickery. Like I said earlier, it's all trickery, but you got to be good at your trickery and it's all overacting. Just don't get caught at it. So, man, I was brought up by some very good players, people who you wouldn't remember their names, but I was reflecting this morning on how blessed I've been with my training as an actor. I don't know why I've been so blessed, but I wouldn't have had it any other way or

Tony (29:54.433)
I've been with my training as an actor. I don't know why I've been so blessed, but I wouldn't have had it any other way, or period. I got to work with the best of the best in the genre of film acting, which is what I want that way. So I got painted with a lot of great gifts and watched personalities around me blow up bigger than big.

Bill (30:03.273)
Period. I got to work with the best of the best in the genre of film acting, which is what I wanted out of life. so I got handed a lot of great gifts and watched personalities around me blow up bigger than big. And so I learned a lot of lessons from that. I took a lot of notes, what to do, what not to do, and thankful for my little

Tony (30:24.993)
So I learned a lot of lessons from that. I took a lot of notes, what to do, what not to do.

Bill (30:33.096)
place in life. A walk on pardon or war. Yeah.

Tony (30:33.729)
Yeah, did get to work with Brad Pitt and George Clooney early in their careers.

Bill (30:45.726)
I sure did.

Tony (30:47.804)
And tell the story of the battlefield with the ants.

Bill (30:53.806)
so I was on a shoot for a movie called Born on the Fourth of July that was later lampooned in Tropic Thunder. That was basically my experience on Born on the Fourth of July. So we were going through extreme jungle training with actual hardened Marines in the jungles of Houston, outside Houston, very hot and humid. And we were getting towards the end of our 10, 12 day training session out.

Tony (31:04.0)
Basically.

Tony (31:20.554)
getting towards the end of our.

Bill (31:24.366)
sleeping in mud holes and Tom was there for most if not the whole time. And our last night we were doing a long range night patrol ambush. So we had scoped out where we were going to sit that day and then we were take our positions after sunset and wait for the quote enemy. These are war games to come through and we light them up. But these Marines, they're not messing around, dude. They're not messing around at all.

Tony (31:30.304)
And our last night we were doing a long range night patrol and brook so we'd scope out where we were going to sit that day and then we would take our positions after sunset and wait for the quote enemy, these are wargames, come through and fight them up. But these marines, they're not messing around dude. They're not messing around at all. So we're scared out of our minds, I personally was, because they had an income.

Bill (31:53.927)
So we're scared out of our minds. I certainly was, because they had it in for me. That's a different story. But we're going out on a long range patrol. It's night, moonless night, very dark outside. And we're probably a a third of a mile away from our final position. And I sit down in what I think is like just a soft place to land, because Tom called a hold.

Tony (32:06.079)
See you next time.

Tony (32:18.387)
what I think is like a just a soft place to land.

home.

Bill (32:24.166)
And what I come to realize, not only am I covered in chiggers, but I'm sitting in a red ant pile. So now I'm covered in poisonous red ants that are having their way with me, man. I mean, by the time I realized I'm covered, it's too late. They're making a meal out of me and I'm trying to brush them off and Tom Cruise is in my face screaming, whispering. I don't know how you do that, but he did it.

Tony (32:26.675)
what

By the time I realize...

oof

in my face screaming,

Bill (32:51.294)
whispering at the top of his lungs, man, and he was not messing around. This guy's intense, man, and he was mad, mad, mad, and I couldn't come out with the words, I'm dying, because I was dying. And so we get put in our positions, and so I'm in arms distance each direction from other actors portraying Marines who are doing the same thing I am, except I'm dying inside. I'm experiencing the worst.

Tony (32:52.032)
Whispering at the top of his mouth. He was not messing around. This guy's intense, man. He was.

Tony (33:05.407)
We get put in our position.

distance each direction from other actors portraying who are doing the same kind of thing. I, except I'm dying inside, I'm experiencing the worst pain of my life, I'm swelling up, and since I was already on the bad side of these Marines, I'm like, well, here's my plan. I'll just pass out from the pain and they'll find me in morning. I it's a good life plan, really.

Bill (33:21.329)
pain of my life, my arms swelling up. And since I was already on the bad side of these Marines, I'm like, well, here's my plan. I'll just pass out from the pain and they'll find me in the morning. I mean, it's a good life plan really. When I could have, I could have just said, hey guys, stop, stop this. I'm dying. Take me somewhere. You know, no, this is how brain, this is how brainwashing works. And these...

Tony (33:40.703)
Take me somewhere, you know? No. This is how brain-washing works. these Marine drill instructors, can do it in a matter of weeks. Turn barn boys into killers. And they decided to do it to a bunch of actors. And that's what they did on Platoon and all of Oliver's Vietnam movies and Saving Private Ryan. So was the same group of Marines headed up by Dale Guy, a very famous...

Bill (33:46.461)
Marine drill instructors, they can do it in a matter of weeks, turn farm boys into killers, and they decided to do it to a bunch of actors. And that's what they did on Platoon and all of Oliver's Vietnam movies and Saving Private Ryan. So it was the same group of Marines headed up by Dale Dye, a very famous arms expert and trainer for these.

Tony (34:10.527)
expert and trainer for these young actors and he would just take these actors out into the wilderness and thrash them within an inch of their life and it's like turn the cameras on, not much acting that needs to take place. It's like you're there, you got the thousand yard steer, you want to kill anything that moves. it's effective filmmaking but it's so good. So they made a movie out of it, Tropic Thunder, literally I'm just watching that movie having the about flashback of someone else.

Bill (34:12.184)
young actors and he would just take these actors out into the wilderness and thrash them within an inch of their life and then he's like, turn the cameras on. There's not much acting that needs to take place. It's like, you're there, dude. You got the thousand yard steer. You want to kill anything that moves. So it's effective filmmaking, but it can mess with your head. Yeah. So they made a movie out of it. Tropic Thunder. Literally, I was watching that movie having Vietnam flashbacks of my own.

because they were theory. Well, yeah, I was was shocked.

Tony (34:42.494)
I could see that that would give you PTSD for sure. mean, but that's Didn't you get a lot of respect from the film crew for? Going through that

Bill (34:54.076)
It was very compartmentalized. We were kind of our own marine unit and not really allowed or encouraged to mingle with anybody else and neither we didn't want to. We thought we were all that after two weeks of marine training.

Tony (35:12.69)
He's right.

Tony (35:16.296)
Well, your own personal boot camp.

Bill (35:20.474)
They were serious. It was no joke. These guys had lost hundreds of their friends in Vietnam. Many of them had done two or three tours in Vietnam. So that was that area. And of course, Oliver Stone was that guy too. Platoon, which I nearly got that role. He wanted me for the Charlie Sheen role at one point. Oliver Stone was that guy. He was a killer of men and a survivor of the Vietnam.

Tony (35:36.115)
Right.

Bill (35:50.201)
debacle and there's a certain mentality that goes with these guys. So Oliver was a former grunt and he surrounded himself by these Marines who were all combat hardened Marines. And now you're in a place, this has little to do with moviemaking. I don't know what we're doing here, but these, these men among men decided we're going to, we're going to put all, we're going to put on this little play in the jungle and see what happens.

Tony (35:53.022)
certain mentality.

Tony (36:05.416)
Now you're in a place, this house, what do we do with movie making? I don't know what we're doing.

Bill (36:20.463)
It was enough to make, you know, Tropic Thunder after.

Tony (36:24.401)
Hmm right crazy

Bill (36:27.398)
Yeah. Crazy. And I needed that as a young actor. I always wanted to portray a soldier, you know, and get into that mindset. So I got it in spades. And, you know, I wish I hadn't gone through it. Truly. wish I had gone through it. Listen, well, got tinnitus to this day for training with 50 caliber weapons with no hearing protection.

Tony (36:32.05)
That's awesome.

Tony (36:43.582)
It made you a better actor.

Tony (36:51.601)
jeez.

Bill (36:54.553)
Why did they do that to us? I don't know. I don't know, dude. But again, you get caught up in this mentality that the movie's the thing and nothing else matters. What you talking about? How about we get through this without injuring or killing somebody? How'd that be? So that wasn't a big... That wasn't on the agenda. Yeah.

Tony (36:55.25)
Wow.

But again, get caught up.

Nothing else matters.

get through this without injuring or killing you.

Right.

Tony (37:18.077)
I get that. get that. So what are you up to now? mean, personally, I know some of the stuff that you've got going, but what can you talk about that you're doing right now?

Bill (37:29.485)
Well, I'm producing another BMX movie. We don't have a title yet or a release date, but we're certainly on the way. I don't know. I don't know what we're going to call it. The Bill Allen story. But. So I've kind of put on my producers cap the past few years and have been producing a documentary that will hopefully be out soon and working on some feature films right now.

Tony (37:37.559)
call it balls out.

Tony (37:57.719)
feature film. So what's your documentary?

Bill (38:01.179)
I guess I shouldn't say right now, but it has to do with my past and the crew I was coming up with. Pretty impressive group of individuals. It was not worthy of being in that circle, but anyway.

Tony (38:04.389)
Okay.

Tony (38:15.517)
been in.

you were. But go on.

Bill (38:20.554)
I don't know. I don't know, dude. I was swimming and continue to swim in pretty deep waters. And I'm just happy to be around and people still want to talk to me. That's it.

Tony (38:34.204)
still want to talk to me.

Tony (38:38.97)
Fair enough.

Bill (38:42.19)
I'm a lucky guy, Tony. I'm a lucky guy, Tony. And this whole nostalgia thing has kind of kicked in and I couldn't have really predicted it. There's this film called Searching for Sugarman where this musician who did a few albums just kind of disappeared and got a life of his own and became a carpenter while his albums kept gaining stature in like South Africa.

Tony (39:06.212)
Hmm.

Bill (39:07.584)
And then he did a concert tour. And so I feel like that it's just like I was lost in the wilderness for a long time. And now I've kind of found my footing again through people like you and the fans who have kind of lifted me up through these, these interesting times. And I'm not, I'm not worried about anything, dude. We've got a, we've got a great team moving forward and I get to live my little life as an artist.

Tony (39:21.859)
interesting

Tony (39:29.308)
That's awesome So, you for thank you for this, you know my my first interview of the podcast and and Give a big hug to your lovely wife

Bill (39:36.92)
Yep, super happy.

Bill (39:47.417)
Thanks, Tom.

Tony (39:49.466)
Yeah, of course. Well, thank you and stay tuned for the next one, And we're out. Bill, hang on for a second. I'm going to stop the recording and then it will.