The Cost of Fitting In: Code-Switching Unpacked

This episode is just the two Kofis going all the way in on code-switching—no guest, no filter.

They break down what code-switching really is, when it starts, and why so many Black professionals feel like it’s the unspoken rule for survival. One side sees it as strategy—a necessary tool to navigate power, access opportunity, and move effectively across spaces. The other questions the cost: What are you giving up every time you adjust your voice, your tone, your presence?

From corporate boardrooms to everyday interactions, they unpack whether code-switching is intelligence in action—or a quiet form of cultural compromise. And more importantly: is this something we should accept, resist, or outgrow entirely?

If you’ve ever felt like you had to become a different version of yourself just to be heard, this conversation is going to hit.

 Every conversation is a step toward collective liberation. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Alright, y'all. Welcome back. Welcome back to another episode of St. Kofi Sessions. I am Kofi Ananda here with my boy Kofi D. I'm here, man. What's up, man? What's good? Man, a lot going on. Yeah, man. We got T, you know, this might be the first part where we got t-shirts on. It all of a sudden turns summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

It's turning summer, but you know, you know how the weather is down this way. It goes up, it goes down. I saw a chart that says it's like 12 seasons in Virginia. You got false spring, false summer, the pollening. I think we in the middle of the pollening. You know, somebody see my eyes red. It ain't because I'm doing nothing I'm not supposed to do. I wasn't gonna say nothing. You gotta do what you gotta do to get by, you know. Nah, the pollen is killing me though. But before we get into all the madness and the topic of the day, we gotta thank our sponsors. I think it's somewhere up there, right? Resist booksellers. Resist booksellers, right? And modern man photography. Yeah, so we got magic now. Things just magically float in places and show up and references because we got a good damn videographer. I'll tell you that. Videographer, producer, editor, executive, producer, all around, just good guy. Shout out to Modern Man Photography. Yes, sir, yes, sir. What's good? Oh man. First and foremost, rest in peace to Jesse Jackson. Whatever you think about him, the man was a fighter for civil rights. And he came from an era where we needed people of his ilk, we needed people of his stature to push us forward as a nation. So I know there's been a lot of controversy, and I I'll be honest with you, Kofi. I hate today that we kind of poo-poo on our elders and our ancestors. They weren't perfect creatures or beings. Because guess what? You and I, somebody's gonna say something about you and I. I get called a tether.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

They say stuff about me all the time. Yeah. That's just comes with the territory, though. You know, it's like you you you you put yourself out there, you're gonna get criticized, you get on, you know, for for something. Yeah, you know, so yeah, you know, I actually used to live across the street from Jesse Jackson. Yeah, you told me that.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

You told me you used to live across the street from Yeah, me and him was boys. You know, you told me So did you have any interactions with him at all?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Nah, not really. No, not at all. I I just happened to know he was there. Matter of fact, I think I saw him go into in or out of his house a couple times or whatever, but never never actually interacted with him. Yeah. And I was younger, I I mean I I knew who he was, but I didn't really know him. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

So Yeah, I think I I just hate that we poo-poo on our ancestors now. I think because we have a I won't say a larger voice, I think that there's so many voices, given the fact of how media is so fractured today, and everybody can say something through comments and you know, whatever. You just get a wide range of just stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, you know, so you think people poo-poo Jesse Jesse Jackson?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, people were talking about how he was, you know, not a sellout, but he always was the one that came on bending knee and things like that. I there were some things I didn't agree with with Jesse, but I honestly could say that the man did what he had to do to push the agenda forward.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, I mean, no, I mean I th I I don't really have nothing negative to say about Jesse. Um I thought he was uh a great leader, um, and I think he he's uh I owe a lot of our freedoms to his fight, you know. And he could rhyme. So it made it, it made the message, it made the message even even better.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I have to say the South Park episode when um when I guess the kids on our South Park were uh said something about token. I don't know if you ever watched South Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they were trying to do everything. Matter of fact, it was um, I think it was Stan's dad. Was it Stan? I think Stan or Kyle when he was on Wheel of Fortune, and they came up with like the letters. You y'all know what I'm talking about. It was like N blank G G G E R. And he was like, people that annoy you. And they he was like, Oh, I don't know if I can say it. Then he said it, and then the word ended up being Naggers. Naggers. And the the point of the episode was because they were trying to get back in Tolkien's good graces, and they went to Jesse Jackson, and Jesse Jackson, the character of her, was like, if you want to be back, if you want to be back in with black people, kiss my ass. So they literally like had the dad like kiss Jesse Jackson's ass. But then Tolkien was like, Y'all don't get it. He's not the emperor of black people. Like, just because you made up with him don't mean we're cool. So I don't mean to bring up that funny reference, but he was larger than life. And if you make it on Saturday night, Saturday Night Live, um, what's the other one? South Park and some of these other like pop culture icons, you you made it.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, no, he's he's a he's a he's a cultural icon. He's the you know, he he yeah, can't can't say enough positive things about about Jesse. I I had nothing negative to say about Jesse. No rest in peace, brother. I I I don't either, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Uh what else is going on in the world? We're we're at currently at war with Iran, Operation Urgent.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

When are we not at war? I mean, I I I for one, like, look, can't can we just go, can we just have like a five-year period where we just not at war? That's just my that's just my hope. Honestly, for for as much as you know, I'm not I'm no big no Trump fan, but I honestly bought into his campaign, you know, rhetoric when he was like, Yeah, we're not we're not no more new wars, and all of a sudden, he's like bombing like eight different countries. I'm like, what the you know, just just power for the course, man, just power for the course. But unfortunately, you know, but but you know, shout out to all the the service members out there who actually, you know, fighting this, fighting this war, regardless of how you how you feel about everything, you know, or the the politics behind it. These these service members are really just trying to do their job and come home and do the best as they can as they've been assigned to this.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, I I think that's the one thing that as Americans we can get behind is the people that actually is doing the work and protecting our freedoms. You're unbiased opinion. Yeah, you just want to support those people. And I won't say my homegirl name that's heading over there. You know who you are. Safe travels, get back safe. We love you, care about you, and things like that. So please just get home safe. And please, I just really hope that you, as a service member, for everybody that's over there, you just know that you are in our prayers, you're in our thoughts, and everything else. So, you know, it's it's it's it's some crazy times. Last thing before we get into our episode, you're happy.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Because man, yes, yes. Can can can we have some decent, can we have, can we keep the debauchery in the debauchery section? Why are we trying to have Magic City strippers or recognition of the great stripping they did in a basketball game?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

They were gonna be on the court. It was acknowledging the establishment that has been in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

They were gonna be on the court. No, they were not.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

No, no, TI no, they were gonna acknowledge like the owner and the historical significance. You didn't think it would have brought some strippers out? No, they were not. And T.I. was gonna do a performance. They they had already kind of put they sanitized.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

But there was gonna be some, you can't have magic. Matter of fact, that's almost that's almost worse in a way. So you're telling me you're gonna acknowledge the the strip club, but not bring the workers out?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

No, because I mean, because it was more of a cultural acknowledgement than it was of a we're gonna do some debauchery or whatever. But I get it. Kula has prevailed, but I go back to saying this. Well, they did, Kula has did prevail. Right? Luke Ki Nipple, um, he he, you know, even on what's your boy's name? He played with the Celtics. Um, oh my god. Tatum? No, no, no, he's Dominican guy. Um Al Horford. Even came out against it too.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah, man, come on, man. Like, look, nothing against if you if you stripping, if you did that's your that's your job, you making a living. Ain't I ain't mad at you at all. It's just that you diver you deserve to be in that section over there, family entertainment over here. This is not something that we need to be promoting, as it's you know, and I say this especially from like a a black perspective. We oversexualize and and and our women way too much, you know, and this and I'm I'm being consistent here. So, like, you know, we talked about the hip-hop culture, we talked about how how this stuff, how how we women are portrayed in these videos and stuff like that. And so you can't on the one hand say that we need to um like stop over sexualizing women and and and things like that, but then on the other hand, recognizing them at a family event, you know. So, like, nah, man, keep it over there. Like, kudos to you, you're making your money, but like, nah.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I told you, man, I heard the wizards doing uh Saturday night for Stadium. Man, you ain't heard that. I heard that. You ain't heard that.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

I heard my boy uh what's next, Stan Leone is the owner, man. You know what? Maybe a couple years ago, this this might we might have, but I think we're getting our act together. Shout out the stadium, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

But Kofi, what do we got today for our topic?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

So today we are talking about code switching. So the idea of code switching is changing up your your your mannerisms, your dialect, your style, your your the way you carry yourself in order to fit in. Right? Um, so we're gonna talk about, you know, is this good, bad, not uh necessary, um you know, um, all of that. So how how it impacts workplace, how it impacts our psyche. You know, it's something there's a lot to unpack there because um it happens in a lot of different cultures, um and not just the black culture, but a lot, you know, uh throughout the diaspora, but in in other cultures as well. So I think this is a really a topic that affects a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

And so I mean, you're not gonna go full Brian Gumble on me? Like you're not gonna do that black. Well, today we're going to talk about um, you know, no, I I'm shout out to Brian, man. Um cold switching. So how you how you feel about it? I I'm actually under the the belief you shouldn't co-switch. I'm actually, I actually believe that you should be well versed in your intellect, in your mannerism, and your vernacular to be able to operate on a common level within reason now that you can go anywhere and transport yourself. Now, I know there's some things where you get around your boys, you get around, you know, your girl, or you get around whatever, you you're you're comfortable people, you may act a little bit different. But I don't know. I feel like when people say cold switching, I always see the funny um versions or the funny, you know, before and after. They'll be like, hey, my name's Kofi. It's good to meet you. I'm swell. Yeah, and then they get back, this motherfucker here, you know, like excuse my language. You know, it's does it have to be that extreme? I I think an even kill message of, hey, look, this is who I am. Who I am in the office still has some type of inclinations of my authentic self. Who I am at home still is my authentic self. I may turn it up, I may turn it down just a notch. But it doesn't have to be two different people. I've seen some people who are two different people. Where you get them and they'd be like, Yeah, you know, they would dig that to me. Hey, how you doing there, Bob? You know what goes well. You're like, whoa, whoa, where did that come from? But I understand, especially in our culture, and I would say the diaspora, um, and we can relate it back to the continent, but in the diaspora, being the minority, oftentimes, you are in a place where you may be one of few, right? And when I'm I hate to use this term, don't hit me for this. People of color. Right? When you use I have to use it. I think it applies. I don't love the term, but I think it's a I think it applies.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

When you are one of the few people of color, you kind of are the de facto representation of your race in that local environment. So if we're all in the office together and I'm the only black guy, right? People's everyday uh thoughts, everyday interactions is gonna be, hey, well, Kofi at works, the black guy that, you know, maybe he can teach me how to Dougie. I don't know. Maybe I don't know how to Dougie, you know, but I know somebody, you know, but all the girls love me. I don't know. Like it's it's it's a thing, right? So so I say this to say this. It is a is a necessary evil, in my opinion. But can we can we not turn the dial from zero to 60? Can we have some intermediate, subtle changes instead of being like, yeah, you know, going from left to right? Can we be somewhere in the middle? But what's your thoughts, bro?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Um, I'm not too far off from you on this one.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Um I agree on something.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

We we we sort of agree. I mean, so yeah, I I feel like you you should try not to do it, but I also feel like it's it's natural. And I'll give I'll give another example that's that's not even um it's it's a form of code switching, but it's it's not from like a racial standpoint, it's actually more from like a cultural standpoint. Like when I'm around my Guyanese family, like you give me about 15 minutes and I might sound totally different, you know, and I'm not even consciously doing it, I'm just trying to like adjust my adjust to I think there's a there's a there's a desire to make sure that your audience understands you in the way that they understand things or whatever, right? And so I I think but I think there's I think there's some some of that, but I also think that there's there's people who like you said, take it to another level because they're almost ashamed to be themselves, or or they're afraid to be themselves.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Or they or they're sell themselves are not I don't I don't want to say they're not comfortable, but they feel like their selves is not acceptable in that environment.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think especially like in work environments, I think that happens a lot, you know. Like if you work in a primarily white environment, as a you know, you might feel I I know I felt the pressure before to to to to sound different or to try to blend in, you know, with them. Um and yeah, it takes a certain level of of comfortability with yourself, you know, in order to like to say, nah, I'm gonna I'ma just kind of be myself. And and not everybody has that that that strength or confidence to to say, well, you know, I'ma just be my authentic I'ma just be my authentic self.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

And um you know, yeah, it's interesting because I had a conversation with one of my friends about this, like, because he always tells me, he's like, Man, you don't coach. He's like, you are the same way, you are the same crazy person you are, regardless of any place. And I said, Well, I don't realize I'm doing it because I just feel like you should go into the room. But I also understand that there is a time and there is a place that certain things are acceptable and not acceptable, you know, because ultimately your actions, your words, and stuff do have consequences. And you can't always be the crazy guy in a high stress environment. That won't get you places, right? You in a stressful environment, you can't always be clowning and joking around. So, you know, I think people oftentimes confuse code switching with adjusting to the nature of the like the nature of the situation. You know, because if it's not time to laugh and joke, that's not cold switching. Like if it's something serious, like if we're doing something that's can take our life, like a life or a limb or eyesight, yeah, that's not cold switching. If I say, alright, let's get serious now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think with us, I hate to say it, it's almost like in black culture, I put cold switching on the same thing as like joking. It's like people are quick to say something, you know, funny or be like, oh, look at him, look at his cold switching. It becomes like a it becomes almost like a poke in the bear.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Like, you mean you remember the episode? So I think uh Kian Peel, the the the the Barack Obama skit. Oh, come on now. That's right, that's that's that's a classic. That's a classic, right? So he's going through and he's shaking all the white people's hands, he's like, Yeah, how you doing there? Nice to meet you. And then he goes up to all the black people, like, hey, yeah, oh hey, give me some love, give him that. That's all we got. That's all we got. Yeah. But there's an actual clip of Obama doing that, you know that, right? Yeah, yeah, like so that came from that came there's some element of truth there. Yeah, but I I mean it it's it's uh it's just a level of comfortability, like I think it just kind of comes out naturally. I don't I don't know if that's even like intentional.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

It's just yeah, but so you know question to you, right? We when what is the benefit in your opinion of code switching? Is it just to purely just fit in and not stick out? But what is the ultimate benefit of code switching in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, I think it's I think it's to make others feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

So people don't feel comfortable with your I think that's the thought.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I think the people that code switch, consciously or unconsciously, are are are doing it to make the person that they're speaking to feel comfortable. So you could and and and so usually it comes from a mine if you're in a minority in a in a majority setting, right? So like that goes all the way, and so like from like a black perspective, like that goes all the way from like us always having to feel like we are inferior, like, and so like in and like this is a superior culture, and so we have to act like them to to in order to to to kind of justify our presence, you know, like yeah, we belong here, I can sound like you, I can talk to you, I can you can relate to me because I sound like you. It's never the other way around.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

I'm glad you I'm glad you brought that up because I've seen co-switching when there's a majority of a minority versus when it might be somebody else. So for instance, I've been in situations where there's been, I'll just use an example, there's a whole bunch of black guys, and then it may be one white guy. And I've seen like some of my you know white friends or white uh co-workers, oh man, you see the NBA game? They're like, I'm like, you don't watch no NBA. I'm like, come on, man. Like, did you force yourself to watch the NBA? Like, I I do look at baseball, man. You know, I might catch a hockey game every now and then. Matter of fact, let's just keep it strictly football. You know, okay. So it's both like football. Yeah, yeah. So so the thing is, they people, the majority, the majority when the scope is flipped, they also may do it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

It's just but but don't you think it's more likely the other way around? Like, don't you I I feel like depends on where you look at that. I feel like the majority will always feel more confident in themselves because like their culture is more present the standard, right? And so it's like you know what I'm saying? So it feels like like if you're a minority in a situation, you almost feel like you you have to you're more there's more pressure to to adjust up, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I would I would love to I would love to I guess ask, right? Because I know this situation has been reversed before for people and how do they act? Because oftentimes I feel like if you're let's say the majority, you don't have to co-switch regardless of anything. Where other you're at, you just be yourself. I I think it's a I think it's a purely it's a thing for minorities. I think minorities actually have that mode or that button in them, per se, that says, oh, I have to be a certain way. But I think if the table were flipped in a setting, they don't have to be that way. Like, I don't know if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

So I mean, like my okay, so there's a lot of stigma associated with how black people kind of generally or stereotypically act, right? So like there's a possibility that Can you give me an example of this? So like so like I want to see this. Give me a good example now. I mean, but uh uh something just as easy as like, you know, how you how you greet each other, like dapping each other up or whatever, right? Like there's there that that to to some that might be perceived as like ghetto or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

You're not pulling your boss in. You remember the Wayne's brothers? He's like, What's up, man? You know, you remember the Wayne's brothers? I don't know if you remember the Wayne, but when uh Marlon used to pull people in and he's a dab them up and pull it. You don't do that to your boss?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

I don't do that to my boss. No, but but regardless, boss, or it could it not but like in in a in another setting, like somebody might look at that and like think like, oh, that's acting ghetto, right? Or at least I think subconsciously, like that's there's a negative association with quote unquote acting black, right? And so like I think that's the pressure that that people might be up against. Like, you don't want to be perceived as acting black per se.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, no, I I definitely I definitely understand that. I I guess I've seen it on the other fence where when the majority is the minority, the people will also try to change some things too. And it's quite comical. It's like you don't have to try that. Like just just um be yourself. And I think ultimately what's wild is we talk about co-switching. Code switching happens among the diaspora too. Yeah. Because because you as a first generation, I think you're considered first generation, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Uh no, I mean I was I'm not No, you immigrated. I was actually immigrating. Okay, so I'm considered as a first generation. Okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I'm first generation. So for you, you had to co-switch a bit. Most of the time. And it wasn't among race.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, it was it was it was a culture. Among culture. It was a culture. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

I mean, I know you mentioned it before, but how did you co-switch?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

So for me, it was trying to sound like an American or trying to, you know, at the time, a black American. All of that, you know. Yeah, I mean, going from going from sounding like Caribbean, you know, accent and all of that, and wanting to fit in, you know, is a similar thing. I'll give you another example, too. Um, so when I went to Ghana, um last time I went, right, we went to look at some houses, we met up with this real estate agent, and she's a Ghanaian, right? Um, and she was talking in almost like a British accent, right? Like, and I was I had to ask her, I was like, You spent some time in England, or you know, what's this British thing? She's like, No, no, no, no, no. But it was like, why are you she associated British with being proper, right? And so, so well, I mean the Supreme Court and their high court still wear white wigs over there, right? So, I mean, we can't we can't separate out code switching when it comes to talking about black people with with the context of of why we were always felt like we were less than, and like why we had to adjust to to to to white culture. So I think it's still happening, and and and in that situation, she felt like the British was proper, and so she wanted to sound proper, and so she's talking to other black people, we're talking just like this, and we're talking normal, you know. We're but she's like then she gets on the phone talking to her family, and she's a full-on Ghanaian, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

So I think the I I think the thing about code switching is we always look at it in terms of race, but also it'd be culture. Because I mean, if you go certain places, how the way you talk, because I remember um when I used to travel up to Baltimore and DC for summers and stuff like that, they used to call me country. You know, and uh, you know, I think so much of we think about it in a racial connotation, but I think cold switching could be done culturally because there were certain things, like you know, my dad would tell me, like when he came to this country, similar to yours, that he had to do certain things to kind of fit in. Right. So, you know, I think a lot of times some of these issues are really hard to talk about, and they kind of are core issues among you know black people across the diaspora as a whole, and we take it as a serious matter. But I think cold switching it is serious, but also there's like a lightheartedness to it too, because there's an awkward phase, because ultimately, what is the goal? The goal is for people who want to fit into the culture that they are now zoomed into, and there is some awkwardness that goes in that because how many times, and you probably can attest to this, how many times you said something and didn't know what it meant? You probably was picking up on words like, oh, I'm gonna say this, but you didn't really know the right context of it, right? I've seen it times where people who try to assimilate in the culture, not saying they try extra hard, but what they do is they'll do something to try to win somebody over, like, what are you doing? Nobody told you to um, you know, do that or whatever. And I think a lot of times with these issues, we just gotta be lighthearted in nature, but I don't think it's always as serious as as it sounds, you know?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, I mean, I think to a certain extent there's there's a level of natural emotional intelligence behind it, right? Like if you if you speak it to somebody from a different culture, you kind of want or race culture, whatever, you kind of want to speak to them in a way that they get it. They get it. You know, so I don't think it always comes from a negative place, but then when you layer that with history, and and it's particularly, you know, black people's um for the context of of what we're talking about, like you can't you can't overlook how we've been kind of beat down over the centuries to feel like your accent is is below this accent, right? Um, I mean we okay, so like I always you always always trips me out. You ever look at notice that every time there's there's a movie or a commercial, whenever they want to portray like a really intelligent person, they have a British accent. Like that's uh you might I don't know if you notice it or not, but it's very common.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Like the British accent is like there's you'll never see an African accent being portrayed as a this is going I'm gonna get probably a lot of comments for this. I don't want a Nigerian accent on my GPS. I do not want a Ghanaian accent trying to give me recipes, right? I'm sorry, I love my people. I love my people, I love my family, I love y'all, I love my I love my Ghanaian people. Shout out to my Nigerian people. I'm saying that. I love y'all too. I do not want because I'm just gonna laugh. I'm gonna laugh because I know it's never, I'm not gonna get the straight answer. Oh, what do you want this for? Like, no, I want this, I want this because I asked for it. Don't ask me a question back. So I don't mean to take you off. I know you were making a very you know significant point there. You was about to do that, they were about to focus in on you about to have the hallmark moment, right? But I do not want a Nigerian accent on my GPS.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

So I actually I didn't have I didn't get a Nigerian accent, but I got a black accent, a black person on like my my Google. Oh, I got one on Chat GPT, probably Chat GPT name Durrow. That's how but it's like yeah, like I do want to hear a black person. And and and like, yeah, like these are the things that kind of subconsciously seep into you into into our into our system when you'll never see a black voice, you'll never hear a black voice um being portrayed, or a black scientist be you know in a movie, or an African scientist, or a Jamaican scientist, because those accents and those of those mannerisms and those types of things, outside of Black Panther, you won't get it. You know, I swear my chat GBT is black.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

I hold on. I I don't I don't I'm telling you, like, I I'm telling you, I gotta pull this up, and I hope this ain't copywritten or something like this. My ChatGBT, hold on, you gotta hear this. Hello, how you doing today? You got it on the well, thanks for asking. How about you? What's on your mind today? That's a black guy. Yeah. That is a black guy. That that that is a black guy. You can't tell me my chat GBT has found out who I am. I mean But you didn't tell it to me. No, I did not tell, I did not, my ChatGBT is a black guy. That sounds like a guy that that he lives above a Chinese food restaurant you know in a big city somewhere. Like, hey, I'm always here to help. Whatever you need me to do, I'll take care of it for you, okay?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, no, look, I I purposefully, I purposefully make it. Yeah. Hey, look, they they I could tell, hey, look, I could tell a black voice, and you know, sometimes I I my vice, my vo I might be not even watching the TV, whatever, but I can hear it. I'm like, oh, that's a black dude talker.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Oh man, that's that so you're voice racist? I am, I guess. I guess that's what it makes me. So so so let me ask you this. When you get a call from a number you don't know, do I need to finish the statement or do you are you just want to ask me?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Do I hang up? I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

I did not say that. No. So the question is, do you already have like a pre-conceived notion of what that person's about to ask you based on their voice? Oh man, it could be that far. It could be somebody from another country, it could be somebody like uh because they they're probably they're probably trying to co-switch on the phone. Because they don't know you. Yeah, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 31:06

No, I no, I'm I I don't I don't associate a value to the voice. Okay, but I just would recognize if it's a black person or not.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Key point you said though, and that's I think is the crux of co-switching. We assume that a certain voice style or or um I forgot the word I want to use, but a certain voice style or tonation has value.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

And that's that's the part that is sad. Because ultimately, even though we know the world is it is for what it is, right? We we you can't change everything about it. But why does a certain voice have to be attributed to intellect or professionalism or just overall being a good person? So that that point you made, I ain't gonna cut you off. No, but that's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, no, I think that's exactly that's exactly the the problem with code switching, is because um and so I think what it what it also does um is that it puts it's stressful, right? It's it's you now having to change up who you are. Think about it, if you're if you're code switching all day, eight, eight hours a day at your at your job, five days a week, and you only get to really be yourself when you come home.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Unless you not live by yourself, because you and that dog is the only one gonna know who you are. So I'm just just I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

But you see what I'm saying? Like for the bigger thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Or give the dog an ethnic name though, if you live by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

You might need to. You might need to. But I think that's that's where like the the the emotional strain comes in because now you're you're you're forced to be somebody else. It's one thing if you're just like at a party or at a function and you're and you're code switching for like an hour or so. It's another thing to do it day in and day out, you know? Um consciously or subconsciously, you know, like to make other people feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

But do you think people do you think in this day and age people can sprinkle a bit of their authentic self? Even if they're gonna prefer proverbally dial that cold switching dial down, do you think they can inject little bits of their authentic self without having to go full I think you should full blown filter? Because I look at cold switching like a filter. It's like on Instagram, you can turn the filter down, you could turn it up and have a straight glass face, right? You got all your pores is just gloss, glossy, right? So can you inject your I think that should be the I think that should be the goal.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

I think that should be the goal. Um But it takes it takes a it takes a certain level of comfort, confidence, um, and it to to to to go in there in into into these situations and have your same mannerisms or whatever um and not feel like you're gonna be judged for it. You know, um you know it's it's it's like we get criticized all all the time for um again, you know, like when our accents, what's what's what the term that you they said um ebonics. Ebonics, right? They still use that? I mean I haven't heard it in a while, but like that that that is a term that that is used to to describe talking black, right? But like that actually that that comes from somewhere, like those, if you actually trace the roots of some of these terms and and and and mannerisms and and and slang and all this other stuff, these things actually have roots in African culture and dialects and and language that's been passed on. I mean, so not all of it does, but it's like you will never have somebody from there's no there's no somebody from like Texas or Arkansas or whatever, a white person will never be made to feel ashamed of their of their accent, right? Somebody from Boston, like a white person from Boston will never be made ashamed to just be themselves, right? It's like, oh yeah, he's from Boston. That's a bad, terrible Boston accent. But you know what I'm saying. You try I try, you try, you try to try it. You know, but like that, it's just like that's what it is. Like he's just he's just allowed to be himself, right? You'll never hear a British person feel the need to code switch or to change anything up.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

But can I say though, the actors that are British that have American accents are wonderful? Oh, it's crazy. I mean, it is crazy how well they do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

That's crazy, yeah, yeah. What's his name? Um Idris Elba. Yeah. Like for him, the his ability to switch it up. Yeah. Like with the dude that played uh Martin Luther King, he's British.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah. Um if I could though, um you you you you mentioned something that I would like to highlight before we get out of here, is about the sense of having to do it based on um comfortability. I I challenge the people out there, I challenge everyone out there, right? Try to see if you can put a little bit of your authentic self into your professional environment. Try to see if you can put a little bit more of yourself into your everyday dealings without having to wear this proverbial mask. Because one thing for certain and two things for sure is it wears you down. It fatigues you. And if you're not able to attribute little portions of yourself throughout your day, man, I can only imagine how that wears you down or whatever. Don't get me wrong, it ain't for everybody. Everybody can't do it. But if you can, I honestly think that you you should be able to do it or whatever, you know. So I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

And I would say too, if you're in a position of uh influence within an organization, especially if you're a person of color, I think it's it's incumbent upon you to set an example to make the other people of color below you feel comfortable being themselves. So if they you know I'm saying so like to let people know let people within an organization understand and and feel like, yeah, you know what, I can I too can arise in this organization without code switching. You know, so there I think there's I think there's things that we can you can do as individual, but I think there's also organizational things that they can do as well. I mean, it's there's there's there's there's conversations that that organizations should have in the workplace about code switching to kind of let people know, like, yo, don't don't judge people differently or talk about them just because they have an accent or just because they sound country or just because they sound black or or whatever. Like, allow people the freedom to be themselves. True. So so it's a it's a it's a both, it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

So man, I can't believe we actually agreed on the topic.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

We actually finally did. We actually finally did.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I still want Magic City Mondays, though. We're not doing that. I at least want the hoodie. No, we I'm just saying, like, if we're gonna do it, I like I said, I get your point. I completely get your point. I just want the hoodie, and I thought it was gonna be hilarious. I really thought if the NBA was gonna do that, I thought it would have been hilarious. But hey, you know, I mean, stranger things have happened. You know, stranger things have happened. Let's let's let's be grateful it didn't happen. Uh I heard that the Wizard's gonna do not play. The Wizard not gonna do uh uh Saturday Night Stadium.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

But before we get out of here, right, want to thank our sponsors, Modern Man Photography and Resist Booksellers here in Petersburg.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah, why buy a book on Amazon where you can buy one from a black-owned bookstore? And they've been a gracious host, so shout out to the owner here, shout out to our videography. It's it's been all love since we've been doing this. But Kofi, I don't know about you, man, but we're gonna wrap this thing up until next time, people. We love you and peace.