Animals, Nature, and You
“Animals Nature and You” celebrates the curiosity around the connection we have with the natural world.
In this podcast, we will be looking at the science and the personal experiences of experts, and everyday people. From conservationist and animal care staff to filmmakers and authors. We’ll talk to backyard birders, wildlife experts, naturalist, animal behaviorists, veterinarians and so much more.
Join us on this curious odyssey, let’s explore and reconnect together! It’s all about the connections we feel and the connections we long for.
It’s about Animals, Nature, and You!
Animals, Nature, and You
Nature: The Transformative Power of Outdoor Education
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In this episode, Rick interviews Tina Brower Kraska, the founder of Red Oaks Forest School, who shares her journey from a wildlife enthusiast to an educator dedicated to reconnecting children with nature. Tina emphasizes the importance of fostering curiosity in children and how her daughter taught her valuable lessons about slowing down and appreciating the natural world.
Tina discusses the founding of Red Oaks Forest School, which began as a simple monthly meetup to explore nature with others. Over the years, it has grown into a thriving educational program that emphasizes child-led exploration and the benefits of outdoor learning. She highlights the positive impacts of nature on children's mental health, including improvements in attention, cooperation, and overall well-being. The conversation culminates in Tina's encouragement for adults to reconnect with their innate curiosity and the importance of slowing down to truly experience the world around them.
Animals Nature & You on Instagram: @AnimalsNatureandYou
Red Oaks Forest School:
ReadOaksForestSchool.org
IG: @RedOaks_Explorers
FB: @RedOaksForestSchool
Tina Brouwer Kraska on Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-brouwer-kraska-52bb42167
Other links mentioned in this episode:
Natural Start Alliance: NaturalStart.org
North American Association for Environmental Education: NAAEE.org
Connect with Rick:
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Music: Positive Carefree Folk Pop
Artist: Burgberg
Used with Full Music Standard Lic.
And I try to tell like new families to four school, this has rung true and they've come back to me and said, wow, that was really awesome. But I tell them, like, we're gonna test their physical discomfort first. And as they learn that they can handle being uncomfortable in cold or wet or hot, they'll remember that they can also be uncomfortable being sad or angry or those feelings that are uncomfortable too. That like we can get through uncomfortable things. And I think nature is such an awesome way to um teach us that or remind us of that, you know, when we're struggling.
SPEAKER_02You're listening to Animals, Nature, and You, a podcast that explores a connection between animals, nature, and humans. A podcast that celebrates learning more, following our curiosity, and reconnecting with the natural world. If you're anything like me, you have probably noticed how much better you feel when you've been outside. Why is that? Why is that that when we get to spend time outside, whether it's in nature or just to walk in the park or just walk around the office complex when you're at work on your lunch break, what is it about the sunshine, the fresh air, or even a cloudy day or being out in the rain? This kind of makes us feel better. I don't know. I don't I don't have the facts. I do know there are studies out there. And the guest for today is gonna help us shine a light on that. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool what she does. Her name is Tina Brouer Kraska, and she is the executive director and co-founder of Red Oak Forest School. And I gotta admit, I really wish I had a Red Oak Forest School when I was growing up. I mean, I was lucky. I grew up in a small town and had a very large river just blocks from my school and blocks from my home. So I did kind of grow up outdoors, but the school, if it was more outdoors, would have been nice. But as executive director and co-founder, Tina brings this rare blend of ecological expertise, creative vision, and deep community engagement to her work. She holds a bachelor's in natural resource conservation and a master's from the University of Kentucky, where she studied the ecology and behavior of peregrine falcons. We're gonna dig into that because I am curious about that. And the cool thing about her studies is uh through through her work, she was dubbed the peregrine lady. So we're gonna find out about that. Tina has also served as a naturalist in Ohio and a raptor biologist with the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, focusing on public engagement and community-based conservation, which, of course, if you know anything about me and my work, exploring that community-based conservation and why it's so important. It is it's so cool to hear those stories. So we're gonna ask her a bit about that as well. She's also a certified Southern Appalachian naturalist committed to connecting youth and communities to the natural world through education, stewardship, and citizen science. And here's one part about Tina's story I really appreciate. Before I introduce her, I want to share with you. She's an accomplished photographer and small business owner. She founded one of Chicago's top photography companies, recognized among the top 10 in Chicago. Not easy to do. Chicago is a big city, and apparently it's the nation's third largest wedding market. So being a good photographer there is important as well and impressive that she was within the top 10 there. She's been featured in many print publications and has won several awards for her work as well. She also co-founded the Red River Rock House, a celebrated farm-to-table cafe in the Red River Gorge. And of course, to date, you know, modern time, right now, Tina has been featured in several speaking engagements, including a TEDx talk that she's done. You can look that up online very easily. Just put in her name in TEDx and it'll pop up. I'm going to actually reference that. I because I watched it and I want to ask her about something she mentions in the TEDx talk. So we'll get to that in a bit too. She's also done podcasts, not just this one, but the Nature Guys. And she's also in the film. You might have remembered my second guest that I had on this podcast. His name is James Parker, and he did the documentary In Our Nature. He features part of this school that Tina has started in that documentary as well. So with all of that, and without further ado, Tina, I want to say thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02In the intro and reading over your bio and myself just doing some homework on you before before having you on, and I well, I'll just mention to the audience as well. I came across you, uh James Parker, who was in episode two of Animals, Nature and You. He's got this great film he did with his uh producer, Juliet, uh, in our nature. Your school that you're in charge of is featured in that film. And talking to him later, then after recording with him, he's like, you know, you really ought to get in touch with Tina and find out what she's about. Sounds like it'd be you know in line with your podcast. So with that, with with you know, everyone's already heard the intro there as far as who you are, kind of what you what you've done, I want to start with this cool nickname you got in your history, Peregrine Lady, because I feel like that might be an insight as to where we started with uh heading towards is creating the school and doing everything you do for kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh gosh, those are some of my favorite memories. In graduate school, I kind of lucked out and got offered a position to be a part of this reintroduction of peregrine falcons in eastern Kentucky. Um, I was super interested in animal behavior, but I'm not particularly one of those people that's like, this is my favorite animal. So I was excited to learn as much as I could about the peregrine. Um, so I just got, you know, super excited about it. And I was one of those um 20-something year olds that looked more like I was 15 years old. I was very small. Um, I looked really young, and but I had, you know, kind of a take charge attitude. So part of my um job, if you will, um in my research was to go to these power plants along the Ohio River in Kentucky, because that's where the nesting pairs of peregrines were at the time. And what my research was focusing on is, you know, is there any difference between the behavior of the young um for fledglings that do have parents raising them versus the hacked individuals out in eastern Kentucky? So um I just, you know, walked around there, you know, excited and in in charge of, you know, the peregrines and was working with people who were from a rural background. They're in the kind of coal power plant uh kind of background in rural Kentucky, um, didn't know what to make of me. Um, but I was just excited to get up there. And and they were a little bit nervous because the peregrines, if you know much about them, they have no problem striking the workers when they get up on these smokestacks. Um, they're very territorial, so um, but I was just too excited to be afraid. So um, you know, we went up there and we'd observe the peregrines, and I was there multiple days a week, eight weeks of summer, eight to ten weeks of summer for multiple summers. So um, you know, they just started calling me the peregrine lady. And I remember I would I was supposed to be covered head to toe in like protective wear, but I was young and invincible. So I it was way too hot, you know, it's like a hundred degrees. And so I stripped all that off once I would get on top of the roofs um to observe the peregrines, and I'd be covered in cold dust, you know, when I would come down at the end of the day. And you know, so usually they were just shaking their head at me, going, What the heck? You know, what what is she doing up there? Um, but yeah, it just became a term of endearment then.
SPEAKER_02And what a great nickname to have. I mean, those peregrines are awesome. Was there you had mentioned you didn't really have a favorite animal. What was it that that brought you to wanting to observe or or being told to observe the peregrines?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was mainly just one of those things that, you know, an opportunity presented itself. I went to the University of Kentucky and after I graduated, I went and did like a park manager position in Ohio. And um, some of the faculty I worked with got that project and they thought I would be a great fit. And yeah, I just loved ecology and um animal behavior. Um, like kind of first and foremost, that was what was most interesting to me. So I think they knew that the aspect of the project would be interesting to study um since there hadn't been much um in the way of observations or historical record of peregrines in Kentucky. So um they were on our a list of species to watch and observe um potentially bring back. And um, but there just wasn't too much known about the process and and you know, the species in the area.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, and that's that's part of my world and my history is the conservation side of things with animals and and the fact that we would we the big broad we of people that are concerned about them would say, hey, it looks like their numbers are dropping, we need to protect them. But there's uh observations need to be done, documentation needs to be done, science needs to be able to say, no, here's what's actually happening, here's where it's happening, here's why it's happening, and they would present that to then help create protections and things of that nature. So that's cool that you got to do that. And prior to uh us recording, you had mentioned that you've always enjoyed zoos growing up. That was your gateway drug into ecology and you know getting excited about animals. So with uh zoos and just a general love for animals and then and the peregrine studies, uh again, I go back to the intro where I read through your bio. You've done so many things. Obviously, photography has been a part of your passion that you you've you've been able to do things with a farm to table, etc. But really it's you know, what's mentioned in the movie and what would pique my interest in talking to you is your school. Uh and I I saw your TED talk, and there's a bit you mentioned in that TED talk, sort of that moment where you know, well, I'll I should just let you say it, but I I love I just love where you you the way you present it is that here I am, someone who loves wildlife and nature and ecology, and I'm hoping to raise my daughter with that love. And I I dropped this information on her, but there was a moment you talk about where she became the teacher. Can you share that real quick with my audience?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would love to. It's such a poignant moment in my life. Um just being out on the trail, you know, just excited as a young mom to have my daughter just kind of old enough to tag along and and start to absorb the world and communicate with her. And um, just very eager and excited to show her the world, you know, through my understanding and my lens. Hey, let's go here, let's see this, you know. And um she, you know, we were also with friends, you know. So there was a part of me that was also like, we have to keep up, we have to kind of go where we're going. And um, she was so like curious and energetic and always went everywhere barefoot. That was kind of a key thing, you know, she always was um running around barefoot. So we're on this trail. She um happens upon this like amazing moss, which you know is so nice to stand on. It just feels so soft and sweet. So um, you know, she kind of passed that while running and and found it. And it was just like such an amazing sensory experience for her. And she was like, Mom, you need to come and take your shoes off and stand on this moss with me. And I was like, No way, we we gotta go. Our friends are, you know, running up ahead. We gotta keep up, like we don't have time. You know, we got a lot of hiking to do. And she was like, No, no, no, no, you need to uh in her, you know, young voice, but a lot of words here, but um, you know, you need to stop and have this experience with me. And um, I still resisted a little bit, you know, I don't want to take my shoes off, you know, just tried to any excuse I could get to keep her moving along. But she was insistent, and I finally, you know, knew we're not getting anywhere until I stay on this lap, which is fine.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes you have to relent as a parent. Yeah, I get it.
SPEAKER_00I relented. And um, so I took my shoes off. We stood on it together, and we just locked eyes, and it was just so uh sweet and special. Like the way she looked at me was like, see, I tried to tell you, like, this is incredible. And she was right. It was just not only was it a sensation that I hadn't felt in so long, right? Because I'm not walking around barefoot, I'm not stopping and taking, you know, that time to notice what's around me. I'm just kind of being swept away with what's happening around me. And um, she really helped me pause in that moment and just take the moment, you know, and share it with her. That was a big part of it, is just sharing that experience, making that moment together. Um she's very persistent and and tenacious, um, you know, in kind of getting you to see what she's trying to tell you. But something about that moment and that shared experience was the first time that I really realized like she had so much to teach me, you know. I'm not just placating her, being compliant or kind of, you know, initially I was just trying to like get to the next thing. But you know, but it became a um kind of a window into, you know, a new way that we could have a relationship with each other in nature where I listened to her and um without, you know, an agenda of just like getting through whatever we're, you know, but just really like see that she has the eyes and and the sensations and the hearing. Um, she's taking in like a totally different world than me as you know, a young and open and creative and curious person. Um so she's been showing me uh so much ever since. And now she's 16, and it's just I'm so thankful that um she was so persistent because she's opened my eyes to a lot of things along the way that I probably would have just zoomed on by.
SPEAKER_02It reminds me of how much I think we start to as we grow and and get into, and and you you you painted that picture so well that you had an agenda, you want to catch up with the friends, we gotta do this. Our minds as adults, we're like always on to the next thing before we're through the first thing. And she's not there yet in that scenario. She's not at that, it's just this is now and this is what I'm doing. And that's all I gotta think about. And I think it's wonderful that kids have that. And if we're observant enough as adults, we can be reminded that we need to step into that as well. Not all the time. Obviously, we have a lot of responsibilities, a lot's going on, but that reflection, that opportunity where where the child becomes the instructor. No, you need to stop, take your shoes off, and just go wow for a second, you know. Yeah. I love that. I love that because I am a true believer. I believe just from my own observations of over 30 years of working with people and animals, there is an innate curiosity we are born with for the natural world, for animals, for our surroundings. And as we get older, that's kind of systematically taken away, or you know, for better or for worse, we grow out of that to a certain degree. And that's one thing I love about reading up about your school and what you're doing there with the school. Uh it's it's Red Oaks Forest School. And I I'm not gonna even try to explain it all. I'll I'll have you share that. But I also with that, with that sort of segue then from your the story about your daughter there, were there steps in between that moment? It's such a pivotal moment for you before you got to the part of opening the school, or was it sort of like that was the launch-off point? Like is there a in-between?
SPEAKER_00There is an in-between in the sense of the way that it just organically grew. Um that was pretty um instrumental in kind of I I love how you said reminding ourselves, like because it is a remembering. That's how I'm starting to feel it and see it now. It's um something that um we're born with, and it's just about awakening and remembering that you know, we're all connected. And um I never ever imagined I would be working with kids. I never even planned to have kids. You know, I loved animals. I wanted to work in conservation, I wanted to be one of those people that's like not around people, just around plants and animals. But having my own child, I I just became so curious about their curiosity. And it was like every kid I met was the same, you know, like they were so magical in their wonder and their awe and their curiosity. And so it was right around that time, just shortly after, that a couple friends and and I realized that we weren't making enough time to get outside with our own kids. And for me, especially having that background and that education, it was like, this is ridiculous, you know. Like I will not raise my child um the way that I was raised, so disconnected um to nature. So it was um just a point of accountability that if we find a group of friends, we can all say, we're gonna get outside. And it started with just once a month. Like we're gonna put it on the calendar once a month, rain or shine, hot or cold, too bad what the weather is, you know, it's on the calendar and we're doing it. And just those first couple experiences were just so magical um that we just started doing it more and more and more. But it really just started as um a meetup, like put it on the calendar, invite a few friends, uh, meet up at the spot, see you there, uh, and that's all it was. So yeah, from there um people started to hear about it. And um all of a sudden it was about 30 kids, and we're, you know, meeting at parking lots in the Red River Gorge. And the co-founders and I all had different backgrounds in how we connected to nature. Um, some were more science, some were more literature. But the parents started asking us to um like teach them more and doing the air quotes, um, you know, and we were like, no, the kids are teaching us, you know, and we need to make this space for play. But recognizing that we were working with a homeschool community and that we were asking a lot of people to kind of dedicate this time, we decided to kind of meet in the middle. And that's I think where a lot of our um minds got kind of activated towards like what could this become? We how could we kind of uh help parents feel like their kids are being, you know, educated and they're checking the boxes, but we would have our own kind of line that we're drawing in the soil that you know, that we're gonna also mandate, you know, free play exploration. Um we saw amazing things happening um those first few years with the kids when we would just give them the space to be outside. I mean, they were creating entire worlds, they were creating shops, they were, you know, they had commerce and trade and you know, with all these natural materials, they had roles and um, you know, so so we just started to kind of create our own way of doing things. Um for those of you that might not know, the forest school movement really is centered around childled exploration and learning. And the homeschool movement is a little bit more um there's a lot more interest in um kind of teacher instruction, teach our kids, just you know, different ways outside of traditional school. So uh we kind of wanted to to blend those things. Um and yeah, just started growing from there. And that was about 11 years ago. Um now we have four campuses. Um, I think we have eight forest school programs, four community programs. We have hundreds of kids enrolled, we have outreach. So we're connecting to thousands of people a year. It's just been an amazing journey.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell And just for people listening, where you say it's Kentucky based, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_02So is it is it all all the campuses and all the outreach within Kentucky only, or is it are you spreading out even further now?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Right now we're um we're very happy in Kentucky. We have two central Kentucky locations and two eastern Kentucky locations. So we it those are quite different areas um uh in a lot of ways. Um so we're kind of bridging um some of those differences in Kentucky, yep.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Sure. If is now is there a conglomeration or a group or an organization, association of some sort? Let's say somebody is in Connecticut or someone's in Texas or someone's in Oregon and they think, I would love my kid to have this kind of exposure. Is there a a hub of anywhere that they could go to to see if there's something in their area as well? Or what would you recommend?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, ex um the Natural Start Alliance is um umbrella under the na uh North American Association of Environmental Education, but they have their own website, their own everything. Um most forest schools and nature-based programs are focused on early childhood. Um, so so they're kind of housed under that uh Natural Start Alliance primarily focuses on early childhood. So they have like a map of the United States where you can, you know, poke around and see where you can find uh other forest schools, um, nature-based learning. Um, they do a lot more of that than traditional environmental education, uh, which is primarily done in a classroom. So this nature-based education movement has been um really exciting to watch grow. I mean, it's just grown exponentially, and I think that's because um, you know, this younger generation has been exponentially disconnected from the natural world. So, you know, there's plenty of people like us who are like, uh, that is not, I'm not gonna, you know, let that stand, I'm gonna do something about it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02With that, you mentioned in the description about what you're observing in the kids that they were creating these worlds within nature and trade and commerce and having different roles. And I think if somebody doesn't truly have quite the full picture. Yet the value in that and what you're seeing. It might just come across as, okay, that's cute and anecdotal, but that's no different than a regular school. It's just outside instead. You had mentioned in some of your previous interviews, I was looking into that there are studies out there that show that time and nature can help curb uh symptoms of ADHD, can help with depression and anxiety. And I know your school, you do a lot of great things with kids to allow them to express their experiences as well. Can you share a little bit about those studies and what you know and what not just what you observe, but what you know and how this is impactful on so many levels, other than just like, well, yeah, it's it's it's fun, it's just outdoors.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, yeah, the Children and Nature Network is an amazing resource for that for any listeners that want to go deeper into this, but um just the profound effects of nature on um all at all people, you know, is is really uh remarkable to see. I feel like it's something that we just innately um know or remember once we spend any time. But of course, you know, we love research and we love science. Um so yeah, just the um the ability to reduce blood pressure, um, reduce stress, inc improve academic performance. Um, there's been a lot of studies about that, about how kids who have those breaks outside, even traditional school, more breaks to get outside will help them actually do better in classes. It improves attention, um, it improves cognitive ability, cooperation, teamwork, communication, I mean, all of these um skills that uh really help us to be um confident, engaged citizens are um it's so important that they're developed in early childhood. And that gives, you know, a really strong foundation um to build on. And so if kids are not exposed to uh those kinds of settings where they can develop um communication, develop, you know, teamwork, develop cooperation, it makes it harder and harder. It's like you can never really catch up um, you know, in terms of uh, you know, just how to navigate the world. Also, it helps with your immune system. So you get um less sick by just having um exposure to the soil, the microbes in the soil that get into your lungs and to your body help build that immune system and that gut fauna. There's a lot of new research in the medical field now about the importance of that gut fauna and flora. Um and and some of that comes from just like literally putting your hands in the soil.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which is so cool. It's so cool now to me to see science uh, you know, explaining the pathways about things that we've just always done or we've always known inherently to kind of demystify, you know, why why do you why are you healthier if you're spending more time outside? You know, we can measure those things and see those um changes in our body and our minds. And we've seen that over and over again with our students, you know, especially kids um on the autism spectrum who um, you know, that sensory uh overwhelm that can happen, especially indoors. Um, there's there's a way for their bodies to have a full sensory, a full body sensory experience, which I've you know personally witnessed many times with our kids that helps them to stay regulated and be able to uh kind of communicate uh better about what's going on in their body to help us find solutions. We've had so many families say that um they've never seen their child um, you know, doing as well as they do in forest school. And in fact, that the effects can last for days. And um, some of those kids go to traditional public school and they only come to forest school one day a week. But the impact of that time in nature, that full day, you know, outside connecting with other kids and and you know, going through those experiences helps them stay regulated in a traditional, more difficult setting for days, which is just like amazing to me to hear.
SPEAKER_02And I think it's fair to offer up that what you are explaining right now and the impact this has on kids of neurodivergency and neurotypical and everything in between and all around the spectrum, everywhere. I can also say my own personal experience as an adult who had a very stressful last three years, also dealing with some grief in my life because of a loss of family member. Every Sunday I would go out and hit the trails. And it was such a wonderful reason. I'm hearing you talk about kids like they're going out once a week and they're they're good for the week and then in the normal normal space. I I want, and the reason I share that is I want listeners, adults, adults with kids, young adults, teenagers, whoever might be listening to this episode, understand and recognize that yes, you're talking about kids in school, but it goes beyond that. It's for it's you know, in the sense of the idea of being outside, connecting with nature. And and by connecting with nature, I think some people might have the idea like, oh, I've got to go rescue a bird, or I've got to go, you know, help dig out a creek. And it could be as simple as just being outside and touching dirt or appreciating the wind blowing through the trees, uh any of that. And I just I think it's so cool that you have this program, you have this school, you've done this, it's been going on for a while now that there's a network throughout the United States where others can get involved. Uh can I ask, what would you say or recommend to someone who's might be listening to this going to the point they're motivated, like, you know, maybe I want to start one in my area. I can't find one in my area. I want to start something like this. What would you say would be the important first steps or things they should look at to start their own version of this program?
SPEAKER_00Well, first off, I would just recommend that people kind of start the way we did, you know, just get together um with some friends, hold yourselves accountable, stick to that schedule. You know, that's the most important thing because those repeated experiences will build on each other. It builds those bonds, especially with the kids. And then even on the days that you're feeling like it's too cold or too wet or whatever, you'll be surprised to see your kids are saying, No, we're going. And and then you're gonna be so glad you did. So you know, any that makes it more accessible that like literally anyone can do this. Um, and it can be a good thing. Well, you build you build I mean, you build community too. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02But because you've got that group that's now holding each other accountable. So you you your foundation is repeated behavior beginning outside, you've got your community, and then what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So then from there we uh you know, we had the advantage of having backgrounds in, you know, the natural sciences. So it was kind of easy to just get started um, you know, uh teaching these classes. We found um a land partner once we kind of grew out of our public spaces. A lot of people do use public spaces, and that's totally great. Um, if you have a good relationship with your local parks and rec department, um you f probably find that they're inviting and you can just set up shop there. I I would say keep it simple. We to this day don't have our own building. We use, we partner with um universities, with public spaces, with private landowners, and that's really helped us to be nimble and to expand um and serve more people. So, you know, find a place that you love, uh, find a place you want to share, invite people to come there and just, you know, start looking around when you want to start getting into more formal processes. You know, I would say connect with your um local agencies like uh environmental education. I feel like the environment environmental education um space is uh recognizing how fast uh forest school and nature-based learning is growing, and they want to support that because it's such an exciting uh addition to traditional environmental education. Um, so I would look for environmental education associations in your area, wealth of resources. I mean, we're a nonprofit, but there are a lot of forest schools that are um they're not a nonprofit model, they're just a business, you know. So you can start with a simple business license and probably don't want to get into too much of that nitty-gritty, but you know, find those support systems.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, that will give you those resources and and reach out to me. I'm happy to answer questions.
SPEAKER_02That's an excellent resource. Always good to network and pick the brain of somebody who's been ahead of you on that path, right? So that's great that you offer that up as well. And I want to go back to you. I I like what you said about the the idea of community, getting together, schedule it, and rain or shine. That's one thing that I have been told, because I live in San Diego, I'm spoiled. Our our winter is two weeks and it's just rain, you know? Yeah. Um but even that being said, because I'll always be like championing, get outside, get outside. People are like, I'm in uh I'm in New York, I'm not going outside in December. But I I've I love the fact that you're really a champion of rain or shine, no matter how cold it is, because I know I grew up in Washington State and I was outside all the time. When it was raining, I loved watching how the water flowed, even just you know, down the driveway or through the garden and into the gutter or whatever, because it give you an gives you an idea of how rivers are made. You know, you can make that comparison by watching that happen. Or or when it's snowed, how come the snow's piled up on one side of the tree and stuck to these leaves but not to those leaves, or or whatever. And and that's all that that idea of connecting with your natural world and understanding the world we live in. One of the things I like to say is that nature allows us to feel connected even when we're feeling disconnected. And and I it's a it's a broader stroke. There's not an exact because this, but I know again, my own personal experience, my daughter, I take her out for hikes quite often. And it's funny, she'll say, like, you know, dad, when when we first got started, I didn't really want to go, but I thought it was really cool. I really I'm really like it. And like, oh, I want to go again. We remind me next time that I like this. You know, and again, it's it's that idea, I think, that when we're out there, we realize, wow, this feels good. This is this is neat to see that butterfly, that moth, that bee, that plant, whatever it might happen to be, uh, versus we get so sucked into our screens and all of a sudden an hour's gone because we were you know, doom scrolling or whatever you want to call it. And and I've said before, James and I talked about this too, that there is a time and place to have your screen even with you on a hike so you can take a picture of a plant or identify a bug or something. So it's not you know anti-technology, but it is the rem remembering the value of being outside, being in nature. And I love the fact that you you have this school program, that it is so impactful that you get to see it all the time. And and you know, and I again I can't say it enough. It's also part of our adult life as well, reminding ourselves that we have that natural curiosity. You know, it's it's so cool. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I will just add on to that that in Kentucky we have all four seasons. Um and we really, you know, we will cancel once it's kind of below 25 because people don't want to come.
SPEAKER_02Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. They don't want to go.
SPEAKER_00But I have found even for myself, like um I started forcing myself to kind of drink my coffee out uh outside. And I do it all year round. And now I'm kind of shocked when I look at the temperature and it says 25, and I'm like, I feel kind of comfortable. You know, I just have a blanket and a coat. So I think there is um a tolerance can be built for heat and cold. And that's part of the, you know, the problem is that we feel, you know, we are literally air conditioned and in heated to a perfect temperature all year round. But our bodies are absolutely capable of adapting to a much bigger range. And I would say that I'm comfortable now from 35, you know, to 85. And I start to get uncomfortable, you know, outside of that range, but it's still um, there's still ways to, you know, be outside in those extremer temperatures and um find a lot of uh of those benefits of the relief. Even if it's just a few minutes that I can be guilty of like something has to be like big or I don't do it, you know. So I have to remind myself like, even if it's just 10 minutes, 10 minutes is enough. And 10 minutes is gonna be great. And it will kind of refresh and revive you and and help you to just take that deep breath and um reduce your stress. So it's like a little bit is enough, a lot is great, you know. Um, but just do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And and I would even go so far as to argue that we can be comfortable in 35 to 85 degrees, but sometimes it's good to be uncomfortable outside too. Absolutely you know, and and and I know and I'm not saying that I'm not trying to call you out. I mean I'm just saying in addition to that, you know, in the sense of there's times where I'll go out for a trail run and it it just feels too hot in the summer here and I'm running it. But it's like, you know, but maybe it's kind of good to push myself a little bit and sweat and be a little uncomfortable, you know. So yes.
SPEAKER_00I did not mean to imply that I don't go outside outside of the range. It's just like no, no, I know I figured that out. Yeah, but like but it's so true. Like that's something that Forest School I think is so amazing at helping kids, especially now who are like brought into the world surrounded by comfort with the expectation that comfort is a given, you know, that everybody experiences comfort all the time. Like, one, that's just not true. That's not true of our world, but two, like that is um, you know, that's not true of our entire existence. So to get uncomfortable is, you know, essential to our resilience and to becoming strong and being able to, you know, handle the ups and downs of life that we're inevitably gonna face. And I try to tell like new families to forest goal, this has rung true and they've come back to me and said, wow, that was really awesome. Um, but I tell them, like, we're gonna test their physical discomfort first. And as they learn that they can handle being uncomfortable in cold or wet or hot, they'll remember that they can also be uncomfortable being sad or angry or, you know, those feelings that are uncomfortable too. That like we can get through uncomfortable things. And I think nature is such an awesome way to um teach us that or remind us of that, you know, when we're struggling.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I, you know, that even goes into what you mentioned in Kentucky there. You've got all four seasons. Being out in nature consistently, you start to see the seasons change. You get to see the beautiful flowers and you see them die off and dry up and, you know, go dormant, but then come back and bud. I I think there's so many lessons for us about life and resilience for ourselves in our modern times by spending time in nature, whether it's being uncomfortable with temperature or having soggy socks because you were in the creek or whatever it might be, you know. Uh so I I I really appreciate this school that you're doing, the work that you're doing and advocating for. Uh, I appreciate it that you are also even saying to my audience, if there's someone out there that wants to learn more about it and how to do it, reach out to me. As we're wrapping up here, is there anything that we didn't share or talk about that you would you would feel is of value or a nugget of knowledge to leave with the audience?
SPEAKER_00I would just say don't forget to slow down. You know, it's it's easy to get outside and then keep the pace of the pace that we're doing everything else in our life with. Um and that's the, you know, I know I talked about it with my daughter, but I just think it's worth saying again and leaving off with um, you know, taking those moments to slow down and really observe and ask yourself questions like if you don't feel curious, if you don't know, like, okay, what how am I even supposed to be curious? I promise that if you just sit and stare at something for just a few minutes, that curiosity will bubble up and it will get you out of whatever you're stuck in in your head. And it's just such an amazing feeling. So just don't forget to slow down when you're out there too.
SPEAKER_02Nice. I like that very much. Yeah. I saw a post today with someone was saying like slow hiking is just walking. And I'm like, it's actually some of the best walking you could do. Slowing down in nature. That's slow hiking. That's wonderful. Yeah, that's great. Oh, I love that. So, how can people find you or find more about the school? What are what are the what are the ways to find more information if someone's listening to this? And of course, I'll drop this information in the episode notes as well. So there'll be links there, but out say it out loud too, so someone who's listening who can't check the show notes right now.
SPEAKER_00Um so you can find us online at redoaksforestschool.org. And we are on Instagram at read oaks underscore explorers, and we're on Facebook at Red Oaks Forest School, and um I'm on LinkedIn as Tina Brouer Kraska, and I would just love to connect in any of those ways.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Tina. I I appreciate this conversation so very much. And and I want to invite you to, if anything comes up in the world of nature schools that you feel you want to share, reach out to me, let me know. I'd love to have you back on the show and and talk more about this because that's really what we talked about today, is is the heart of this podcast. Uh I get to talk to conservationists, animal care specialists, educators, someone like yourself who's really embedded deeply in this nature school. And and I really want to make sure we start sharing the stories of the importance of reconnecting with nature, whether it's keeping kids connected that already understand that curiosity or reminding adults that we have that in us and we need to dig down sometimes and and expose ourselves in a good way to nature. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00My pleasure, absolutely. Can't wait to come back.
SPEAKER_02And thank you, listeners and watchers, viewers, if you will, if you're watching on YouTube. I gosh, I really appreciate everyone who's been tuning in, watching, and listening. In conversations like this with Tina, the opportunity, you know, came about from interviewing James Parker with his movie In Our Nature. And Tina and her school featured in that movie, like I mentioned in the interview. It's just, it gives me hope for the future when there are people out there sharing these stories like James is doing, but the people doing the work like Tina is doing, working with kids, not only observing the difference and impact that it makes with these kids, but then the parents notice it, that there's studies and there's science out there that show this is important, to remain connected to the natural world in some way, and then to be able to sit down and have that conversation with her, to remind myself even of my own experience. Like, oh yeah, while she's saying that about those kids and how it's impacting them, I'm like, yeah, when I was going through some struggles these last couple years, getting out once or twice into nature really helped me reset, really recalibrated me. And when things were getting really tough for me, I would remember, hey, get outside, get outside, whether it's get your bare feet in the grass or go for a walk, whatever it might be. So, with that, there are notes down below in the episode notes how you can get in touch with her. Of course, my information there is Zoology Rick on pretty much all platforms at their social media, zoologyrick.com, for my website where you can find out more information about the work that I do, how to get in touch. And then please, if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to this podcast. This podcast is continuing to grow, and I appreciate it. Undoubtedly, you are sharing this with other people, getting other people to listen as well, connecting with me on social media. Uh, you can also connect with a podcast on social media. There's an Instagram up for it. You just need the name of the podcast, Animals, Nature and You. And uh you can connect there to keep up with all things podcast only, or connect with Musology Rick if you'd like. Be sure to subscribe if you're on a platform that doesn't have subscription, just has a follow, whatever it might be. Make sure you go ahead and click that because you want to catch the next episode and all the other ones. So if you're following or subscribe, you you won't miss any of those. Thanks again for listening. Have a good one, everybody.
