Animals, Nature, and You
“Animals Nature and You” celebrates the curiosity around the connection we have with the natural world.
In this podcast, we will be looking at the science and the personal experiences of experts, and everyday people. From conservationist and animal care staff to filmmakers and authors. We’ll talk to backyard birders, wildlife experts, naturalist, animal behaviorists, veterinarians and so much more.
Join us on this curious odyssey, let’s explore and reconnect together! It’s all about the connections we feel and the connections we long for.
It’s about Animals, Nature, and You!
Animals, Nature, and You
The Unexpected Path from Wildlife Rehab to Global Keeper Exchange with Alice Vassallo
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Part 1 of 2
Alice Vassallo started her career in animal care by volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation center. And from there, her journey into zoo keeping, wildlife education, international travel and conservation grew.
In this episode, discover how her journey from studying Latin and working in wildlife rehab to shaping global keeper exchange initiatives and connection people to conservation is as amazing as it sounds. You'll hear her insights on the power of humor and accessibility in wildlife education, why investing in zookeepers is vital for our planet’s future, and how her innovative programs benefit people and wildlife alike.
This episode is perfect for aspiring zoo professionals, conservation advocates, and animal lovers eager to make a difference. Alice’s heartfelt message reminds us that as the world continues to change, our approach to wildlife education and conservation should continue to evolve and grow as well.
Animals, Nature, and You on IG:
https://www.instagram.com/animalsnatureandyou
Links mentioned in this episode:
Asshole Animals with Alice on Instagram
Keeper Exchange
American Association of Zoo Keepers (AAZK)
Clouded Leopard Working Group
Pardalis Talent
Find Rick here:
ZoologyRick.com
Rick's social media stuff...
Instagram
YouTube
Facebook
Threads
BlueSky
Podcast Music: Positive Carefree Folk Pop
Artist: Burgberg
Used with Full Music Standard Lic.
The internet at this point is half cat videos and stuff, right? Like we we know that people love nature. We know that people love animals. But it's just taking that next step of like you have a genuine interest. Okay, here's a little bit more of a fact about this, here's a little bit more of a fact about that. But it's swaying that big chunk in the middle that are interested but don't really know how to get involved. And as I said, maybe that's because they feel that, you know, they're not smart enough to be involved in in nature, or they live in the middle of a city and they don't they can't access it too much. Maybe the only you know wildlife they see is squirrels and and pigeons. But wherever you are in your life and whatever you love about animals, you know, I think it's just so important to be able to try and reach everybody that is curious about it, right? So including the the people with with influence.
SPEAKER_00A podcast that celebrates learning more, following our curiosity, and reconnecting with the natural world. Welcome to another episode of Animals, Nature and You. This upcoming conversation, I think if you are a zookeeper or in the animal care world or in conservation or even a naturalist, you're gonna recognize bits of yourself in this conversation. If you are the outside of that, you aren't doing that for a living yet, you're thinking about it, or you just enjoy these conversations, you're gonna see behind the scenes a little bit of just how passionate people are about the work they do. I can say, from my own experience, often we're told we're doing too much by those outside of this work, in that it's perhaps a family member saying, Why do you dedicate so much your life? Why do you work so many hours on the clock, off the clock, your days off, etc., are dedicated to doing all this work. It's because it's a work of passion. And we tend to continuously see the need for the work we love doing and how it's impactful. So we want to do more. Alice Fasalo is no different. She's my guest today, and Alice is a seasoned zookeeper from the UK, and she serves as the director of the Keeper Educational Exchange program known as Keep. It's a small NGO dedicated to training and connecting the zookeeping industry worldwide, which I personally have to say, side note, really excited that it's worldwide because I remember when she was just starting this program out, and it was more UK-based, and now she's conquering the world, if you will. She is also the ambassador for the Clouded Leopard Working Group, a charity based in Nepal that works to protect the two subspecies of clouded leopard. Then, off the back of her work as the conservation coordinator for Matt Lawrence, Alice's newest venture, yes, she's doing even more, Pardalla's Talent has her connecting established talent with wildlife conservation projects that need a voice. And what a great connection to make. You can also find her nature comedy podcast exploring our relationship with Mother Nature's least loved creatures. It's called, and cover the kids' ears if you don't like curse words, asshole animals with Alice on Spotify and Apple. And this is actually where I first met her. I was invited to be on her podcast years ago, and I was like, oh, the name. I'm not sure I can say bad things about animals as a spokesperson for the San Diego Zoo, but nonetheless, we made it work. I got to be on her show. And now Alice gets to be on mine. So, Alice, I have to say, thank you so very much for taking the time to be on Animals and Nature and You. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, Rick, I've got to return the favor, right? You did me a favor all those years ago. I say all those years. It was a couple of years ago of coming on my podcast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it seems like a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01But I feel like I've known you forever. Like I feel like, you know, you and I just talk and it's great, and it feels like old friends catching up. So of course, when you said when you asked, I was like, absolutely, say less. I'll be there.
SPEAKER_00Well, I appreciate you tremendously. Uh for those listening and and watching here as my audience, uh, Alice, you've had a podcast. Uh what is it remind me?
SPEAKER_03Asshole animals.
SPEAKER_00I almost said animal assholes, but that doesn't sound right. Right. And so it's it's comedy, it's a good time about animals. And you interviewed all sorts of people. And it was so funny when you asked me on uh as as often, so I was with the the San Diego Wildlife Lands at the time.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So I would go through and I would review, okay, what's the show about? What's it like? And I'm like, uh, PR rep, this is kind of edgier than we normally do because it's it's kind of a conservative organization when it comes to that side of stuff, especially back then. It's changed a little bit. And I remember like I was like, I was talking to you before we were recording, like, I can't always say like bad things about the animal, you know. But we had a good time. We had a good time.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I first of all, I was so surprised, pleasantly surprised, that San Diego said yes. Because I was like, I was fully expecting them to be like, you know what, like, you know, using the term asshole as I would say, or asshole uh in the American sort of style, you know, to describe an animal, even in jest, you know, which is the sort of point of the podcast. So the point of the show started as a means to sort of gently poke fun at Mother Nature, right? To say that, you know, we're not supposed to love all animals equally. That's just not how it goes. Um, and here are some examples of animals that maybe people don't realize have a more cheeky side to them. Let's be more politically correct, cheeky, sassy sort of side.
SPEAKER_03There you go.
SPEAKER_01And uh so it originally started with that sort of thing in mind. And, you know, very quickly I gleaned that it could turn into an opportunity to change minds the other way. So rather than me being like, hey, this animal that you know and love actually can be kind of a jerk sometimes. It actually turned into the more of the other way around of like, hey, this animal that you don't like too much that, you know, you've got beef with, this is why you should like them. So I think we did a bit of both on on the um uh on the podcast to sort of, you know, depending on the sort of who I had on and the sort of the tone, but it was a really fun opportunity to just be like, and this is why I love that you suggested opossums, because you know, uh first of all, I love them. I have such a a big place in my heart for opossums, but I know that, you know, a lot of Americans, you know, are like ah shaking their fists at opossums in their yard or in their trash cans, right? And so I was like, this is perfect, like an animal that people aren't maybe super thrilled to see. I don't know, unless they've got the babies on the back, maybe people like them, I don't know. But um, you know, I would be delighted to see an opossum. We don't have them, obviously, in the UK. I'd be delighted to see an opossum, but I know that most Americans would be like, damn it, the opossum's in the trash again, you know. So it was a really great chance. And I, you know, I really do want to thank you for coming on all those years ago to sort of, you know, you had to have a bit of a joke and have a bit of a laugh, but also get some messages across about why we should like these animals, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. That's that's what I appreciated about you too, is you were you were approaching it with sort of that that chicy attitude and the yes, not every animal is what we would consider cuddly or nice or whatever. Even those like the the people do think are cuddly and nice, they do have their edge sometimes. Absolutely. And it's an opportunity to educate in a fun way. And and I really appreciate what you did over the years with the podcast, too, is you had other talents and and people that weren't necessarily from the animal world on also. And you blended that joy you have of performance and comedy and animals together, which is which is what I just admire so much when communicators, science communicators can do that because I think you reach a broader audience to that point.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. They're so right, and I think that's such a great point to make is that, you know, and this is a hill I will die on. And I'm so sorry that like if I offend anybody in the audience, I'm so sorry. But this is the this is the hill I will die on, is that we need to be doing different things with nature education when it comes to media. And, you know, don't get me wrong, and again, I'm gonna get crucified by the UK for this because we have, you know, per capita, probably more naturalists than anybody else in the world, right? Like, we have so many greats that come from the UK that are dedicated uh, you know, nature presenters and things like that, and obviously the great, the great Dave, but um, as we call him, Big Dave in the UK, big David Attenborough. Um, but uh, you know, uh, but I honestly do think that whilst the nature documentaries are great, and you know, that's that's fine if you've got you know the attention span to sit and watch uh the nature documentaries that I think they're fantastic, they're beautifully shot, but we need to do something different. We need to do something different with it, just because how we consume media nowadays is so vastly different to when those nature documentaries first started coming out. And, you know, weaving comedy is how I found uh when I was doing talks at the zoo, at uh many of my zoos in the past, that I could reach people more effectively. If I could sort of, you know, tongue in cheek, have a bit of a laugh with the audience when I was talking, still telling facts and things like that. But I worked with a tiger called uh Kellibu. And one of my favorite jokes to tell about Kalibu was that, you know, Calibu doesn't care if we live or die, like uh the keepers, you know, and people found that hilarious. Every single time I was like, this tiger loves her keepers, and uh, so our tiger Rana loves her keepers, she loves to like engage with training with us. Her daughter doesn't care if we live or die. And like people just found that so funny because it's just they're like, oh, that tiger just is so indifferent to its keepers. And um, you know, they're instantly like, okay, I want to learn more about this, I want to know. And they stick around for the uh the the conservation parts once you've got them with the personality. So the idea of sort of meshing comedy and animals just was, I was like, why is nobody doing this? We need to be engaging with like the middle people, right? We've got the animal lovers on one side, we've got the people that maybe aren't so keen on the natural world on the other side, we've got this big chunk of people in the middle that are curious about nature, know some things about it, but maybe want to learn more. How do we reach those guys? So I always think comedy is a great thing for that.
SPEAKER_00I absolutely agree. And and to your point, we can have all the wonderfully shot, beautiful, engaging documentaries out there.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00But for people like you and I who have a natural desire to want to learn more or engage with that content, we seek it out.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We look for it. When we're but uh you and I both know as educators and science communicators, it's the people who aren't seeking us out, we need their attention too. We need to hook them in and get them to the point where they want to learn more. And that's one thing I think you did a great job with the podcast. But I have to say, as much as we're we're talking about your podcast here, I want my audience to also know as much- and and look, I'll put a link down for your podcast so people can check it out. You are dialing it down though. You are moving towards other things.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yes. And it's um, yeah, it's it's not something that um, you know, I decided I woke up one day and was like, oh, you know, done, you know, done with that. It's honestly that just so many other things have come up, like, and my time is dwindling depending on which project I'm sort of focusing my attention on. So, and uh I, you know, you know this first hand, Rick, I don't need to tell you, you know, putting together a podcast is a lot of work, right? Like, you know, the people that are doing it solo who don't have the fantastic teams, the writers, the you know, people putting it out on the socials, the editors, everything like that. It's a lot of work to put together, and you really do put a lot of yourself into it and a lot of your your time and effort. So, you know, is um if I could get paid to do that and just do that, oh my God. Talking to people like you all the time, like what you know, what better job is there? And you know, this I think you'll find the joy in in podcasting as well. Like, you know, you just get to connect with this amazing group of people.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's just such a rewarding part of doing podcasting, but it is a lot of work, you know. So yeah, and I I don't know about you, I take on a thousand things. I'm like, yeah, I want to help that. I want to do this. I, you know, I wish I could clone myself sometimes. I wish I could split into like three Alices to cover more ground.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so so with that, there's a couple things I want to talk about, your history, how you got to where you are. But also then I don't want to I feel like we are on the verge of finding out like what are these other things you're heading into. So let's start with. So, dear audience, hang with us, little cliffhanger here. We're gonna talk about what it is that's come up that is uh that has created Alice to have to decide what's more important, sure, where to pour her energy, and since she cannot be cloned, we will get to that in a second. I want to also talk about so my audience understands where you're coming from. Sure. You have worked at multiple zoos, you've lived in Costa Rica for a while, you do travel for conservation. So give us sort of the the quick rundown of your history of how you got to where you are now and where this passion for animals came from and everything else.
SPEAKER_01Okay, dear audience, I'm gonna do the best I can, you know, given the fact that I, you know, I I must have ADHD symptoms. I will go on a thousand tangents, but I'm gonna try and keep it on the narrow and we're gonna go stick to the uh the question that you asked. So, hi guys, I'm Alice. Uh, I'm a zookeeper. I've been a zookeeper for the last uh 12 years of my life. Um I work part-time as a zookeeper now in a small zoo in North London, very near to London Zoo, but not uh connected with it. Um so where to begin? Uh I got into zookeeping starting at the fabulous ZSL London Zoo, right? Which is an iconic zoo to be your first zoo to work at. And um I've moved around, I've been very fortunate enough to move around to different zoos within the UK uh over in that time in the last 12 years, including a stint, as you rightly said, um, in Costa Rica doing wildlife rehabilitation. Uh I'm a big toucan person, toucans are my big love, and you know, Costa Rica is uh a great place to see toucans. If you haven't been already, do visit. It's beautiful, it's lovely, we love it. Um but nowadays, in the last sort of um, you know, I'd say three to four years, after I found myself, you know, comfortable with zookeeping as a profession and sort of found my feet, and you know, you get comfortable in your job and you know what you're doing and you feel confident in yourself, you know, after learning the ropes, um, I found myself wanting to contribute to other projects, other things in the in the grand scheme of things. So, you know, I love the sort of day-to-day stuff of zookeeping and, you know, fresh air, getting out and you know, working with these incredible animals, getting your steps in, being active, all of the amazing things that uh make zookeeping a very worthwhile profession, right? But I was getting this sort of pang of like, what can I do that sort of impacts everybody on a larger scale, you know? And it's great to be able to impact the animals' lives, but I also kind of want to impact the zookeepers' lives as well. So um uh well, gosh, it was six years ago in October. I was looking at the the my watch there, just like, oh my God, where is the time gone?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh during bloody hell. Um during the pandemic, actually, or during uh the year of COVID in 2020, um, a zoo colleague of my uh and myself, we uh started setting up what is now the Keeper Educational Exchange Program, or Keep, um, which is a uh an NGO, we are a small NGO, but we organize for zoo keepers to spend a few days or a few weeks at other zoos, other aquariums to swap practices, techniques, you know, network, bring everybody a little bit closer together, sort of gain new skills, learn new things, exchange ideas, right? Um, so we've been running that officially. It launched properly. It took us three years. I mean, the pandemic was bloody two years. Great timing. Great timing, yeah. I know, right? We just, you know, swap keepers when the whole, you know, world shuts down and no one wants to be within, you know, two feet of each other. So we had to wait until everything was sort of more safe to, you know, get back out there. So we launched in 2023. Um, I would say hand on heart that the Keeper Exchange program is probably, you know, when I die, probably the thing I'm most proud of. Uh, because uh, you know, I've just, as a result of setting up this program that started in the UK and now we'll be launching in America. Uh, we're looking to launch it in Latin America, in uh hopefully Australia and New Zealand, South Africa. Um, we've been in touch with so many different zoo associations and zookeeper associations worldwide that, you know, it's just an honor and a privilege to be able to get to know some so many fantastic keepers and curators, directors that are all passionate about zookeeper learning and zookeeper happiness. So that's one project. I'm also the ambassador for the cloud. I'm just gonna just I'm gonna roll through these guys.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The Keeper Exchange was the big one. I'm also the ambassador for a small charity called the Clouded Leopard Working Group. Um, you know, if two cans are number one, clouded leopards are number two in my heart and in my soul. And um, with them, I do some uh sort of fundraising and sort of awareness of clouded leopards, first of all, because they're a brilliant cat. As you know, uh Rick, they're absolutely incredible species of cat, but not a lot of people who aren't animal people know about clouded leopards, right? I I don't think if I showed many anyone on the street a picture of a clouded leopard and said, What's this? I know I don't think a couple of people would would really even get it. And so a lot I do a lot of awareness about clouded leopards, but also fundraising for their cause as well. I speak at different conferences, try and get the charity more involved with uh not only UK and European zoos, but American zoos as well that house clouded leopards. So that's a bit of a again, another another sort of networky speaking to different zoos thing where I'm just talking to them and be like, hey, do you guys want to support a clouded leopard charity? I know a really good one. Um so there's that, clouded leopards, cool, we know, two down, two down. Um we've talked about, which is a podcast that uh you can check out Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts from. Um if you love nature, if you love comedy, go check that out. The fabulous Rick is on episode six, I believe, talking about it. Yeah, there it is, there it is. I looked up before because I was I was like, I know we talked about opossums, but like what episode was that? Episode six, check us out. That was fantastic. And the last project, we're nearly done, I'm nearly out of breath, um, is my latest venture, which I've set up this year. Um so over the last year or so, I've been working um really closely with an actor uh called Matt Lawrence. Now, Matt Lawrence has been in things like uh Mrs. Doubtfire, um Boy Meets World is probably where he's maybe most known uh from. Um if you like anime, then Kiki's delivery service, which is a studio Ghibli film, he's uh he's got a role in that, which I'm a big fan of. Um he's been in a lot of the hot chick, if you're into like early 2000s kind of like comedies, the hot chick is iconic. Um he's done a lot of cool stuff over the years. He's a 90s child actor, but he's very passionate about reptiles and amphibians. So he came on Arsehole Animals, he's an Arsehole Animals alumni, like Rick is. And um, he came on the show last year to talk about iguanas and how they are a bit of a problem in Florida. And, you know, should we dislike iguanas? Because they're a little bit of a pest species in in Florida, right? And um, we got talking, we got chatting, and we decided to work together because Matt needed some help being introduced to the to the conservation world. And you know, some of the first people I pointed him in the direction of was Rick, like and Marco from San Diego. I said, you need to meet San Diego Zoo, and you need to meet the the guys there. So um Matt's been enjoying his time getting to know the the wildlife world, the the conservation world, and um we travel around the world together to sort of meet projects, to sort of shine use Matt's platform to shine a light on what they're doing, right? To um get some eyes on their project and hopefully some financial support. So off of the back of that, I know I'm trying to go as fast as I can with this. Oh my gosh. So off the back of working with Matt over the last year and introducing him to the wild world of uh wild people, you know, and uh helping him find his tribe in the uh in the wildlife conservation world and in the zoo world as well. Um, I was like, okay, well, maybe there are some other people in the entertainment industry who, like Matt, have always wanted to sort of get into learning a bit more about wildlife conservation, perhaps linking up with a project, perhaps going out to a project, anything like that, but they, you know, don't really know where to start. There's a lot of information out there, there's a lot of projects that need help. The average publicist or the average talent agent isn't gonna know which is an ethical charity or not. They're just kind of maybe Googling and the first one that comes up, how about this one? You know, so I said, okay, maybe there's some people out there that I can reach with this, with the, you know, Rolodex of contacts that I've made from the Keeper Exchange program, from zookeeping, from being a chatty extrovert, you know, and meeting people.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you and Chatty.
SPEAKER_01Say it ain't so. Um, so you know, I was like, how can I use all of these amazing people I've met over the years to, you know, how can I link them up? You know, I I just love being the great connector. Like if I had one, if I could point to one superpower I have, it's like meeting and connecting people and putting people together or recognizing patterns and saying, oh yeah, you okay, you want to learn about this, you should talk to this person. Okay, great. You know, that I think is a good skill to have. And I think um, so I've launched something this year off of the back of the work with Matt called Pardalis Talent. Now, the word pardalis uh is a Latin word and it means uh pertaining to a leopard. So pardus is the Latin word for leopard or panther, and um Alice as a suffix a L I S means pertaining to. And I know this because I took 10 years of Latin in school.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, you might know. In another life.
SPEAKER_01In another life, and uh so Alice is also my name. So um I love so I thought Pardalis, uh, you know, pertaining to a leopard, and even though clouded leopards aren't technically leopards, they are, you know, it's a close enough link between a leopard and Alice. Pardalis is already a Latin name. Um, and you know, you can find um ostolots have um uh the the sort of the second part of their Latin name is Pardalis, as well as Panther Chameleons, as well as leopard tortoises. And I just thought, I just love that idea. I was like, Pardalis is such a it's a bit of me, it's a bit of leopard. Let's go. Um so Pardalis talent is the a combination of that. So uh yeah, that launched. I I announced it like a week ago, I think. Um
SPEAKER_00This comes out in a few weeks. But yeah, absolutely. It was very recent. Very recent.
SPEAKER_01Within the last month, yes. So uh Matt and I are actually going to be working on this together. Um, you know, Matt benefits from having a sort of a wide network that's spanned over the years of his different projects or just friends that he's met over the years, which is great. And ultimately, I just want to connect people that have a voice and have a platform to the people that need it. So I want as many eyes as possible on the small projects, right? We're not going to be donating to WWF. WWF are fine, okay? They've got they've got, you know, if they've if their CEO is getting a bonus or whatever, I'm sure they're fine. They're good. But smaller projects, you know, are is is where we're sort of focusing on. So anytime I can get someone to, you know, have a meaningful interaction with an animal, whether it's going on a trip, whether it's going to a great zoo like San Diego Zoo or uh anything like that, that's how I want people to connect to wildlife. But it's just, you know, having a friendly face that, you know, isn't a isn't, I'm not a I'm not a scientist by any means. I'm a zookeeper with a with a heart of gold. And um, you know, having that sort of uh approachable face that's just friendly and like, yeah, come on, let's go see some animals and not um, I don't know if you find this, Rick. This is a slight tangent. Sometimes I think um the way that I want to open up nature education to everybody is making things like more accessible because I think a lot of nature language isn't inherently accessible to a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00I agree completely. Absolutely, yes. One of the things when I was an instructor, I'm gonna interrupt real quick. When I was an instructor at Moore Park College, one of the first things, because I would teach wildlife education, in other words, how do you connect your knowledge to somebody who doesn't know what you're talking about?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00First thing, first lesson, never use scientific names. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because it is appropriate to understand the roots and understand the bigger picture when it comes to the Latin terms and the Latin names and who's related to who through taxonomy. But the average person hears that and it's not even it's nothing they can approach. They can't, they don't know what it means. So don't impress people with what you know, meet them where they are, and then educate them to know what you know. And so, yeah, exactly. I am right on board exactly with what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01Like if you use, you know, if you're using the words, if I'm trying to get someone on board to, you know, work with a conservation project or be excited about a specific animal, I'm not gonna use words like endemic, you know, like endemic, you know, quantity. Yeah, exactly. In situ, exactly right. It's so so language that we as animal people, that's part of our vernacular, right? We we use that all the time. But you know, I'm saying, you know, projects in the wild, or I'm saying they're native to this area, because you know, you've just got to think that, you know, there's already a lot of barriers, I think, for some people to uh whether it's geographically, where they live, whether it's culturally, you know, to you know, that prevents people from getting close to nature. And you don't want your language to be one of them. So you're completely right. I absolutely love that. You know, the the lesson of um stop trying to show off to the average person that you know Latin names about things, just you know, level with people. Yeah, you're totally right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I love what your direction is with this project you have going on with Matt, in the sense that, you know, I was uh I was fortunate enough through you actually, was uh a guest on his podcast with Marco back when I was working for the San Diego Wildlife and Still Wildlife Alliance still. And then Matt and I have stayed in touch. Um and and I've kept up with what he's doing, and it's been great to see. And and this is what is so lovely is a lot of people that find themselves in a world that is the entertainment world or the business world. I so what I have in my career, I've met a lot of famous people, musicians, actors, whatever. I've been I've done presentations for large organizations that love to donate money because they don't know what else to do.
SPEAKER_03Of course.
SPEAKER_00So here's a here's a banking industry or real estate industry or other businesses that want to do something, but all they know how to do is write a check.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00But when you can show up and start, hey, actually, here's other things you can do as well. And and to your point, what you're talking about with this this new venture you have going on is that people who already have a platform, already have an audience, and they care about wildlife, but they don't know what the right steps are. To show them the right steps is so powerful because now you allow them to share with their audience the correct and appropriate information about conservation, about wildlife, how to become more in touch with your local native wildlife and things like that. So I love, love, love, love what you're doing. I think it's so important and so needed. And that's that's what I you know, one of the reasons I wanted you on the podcast, obviously, other than you're just a great soul in general, is that what I think what you're doing is so great and and part of this podcast. And I I know, dear audience, I'm so sorry for being redundant on this. Animals, nature, and you, the acronym is any, A-N-Y. Anyone can do conservation, anyone can be a part of conservation anytime, anywhere. It's just a matter of having the ability to have access and awareness about what that looks like. And that's that's really what you're doing at a grand scale, honestly. And I think it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think um it's it's one thing, and it's and it's important, as I said, to reach those people who are curious. That that big group in the middle of us between the teacherners and the people are like, you know what, nature, I'm good. You know, I'm gonna be indoors if you need me. But there's a such a big chunk, and I believe kids, you know, every kid, unless it's kind of taught out of them, you know, um, or disciplined out of them, i are you know, biocurious, right? They're they're curious about the natural world. And I think um so many people, because you know, they the internet at this point is half cat videos and stuff, right? Like we we know that people love nature, we know that people love animals. Yeah. Um, but it's just taking that next step of like you have a genuine interest, okay. Here's a little bit more of a fact about this, here's a little bit more of a fact about that. Um, but it's swaying that big chunk in the middle that are interested but don't really know how to get involved. And as I said, maybe that's because they feel that, you know, they're not smart enough to to be involved in in nature or whatever it is, uh, or they live in the middle of a city and they don't they can't access it too much. Maybe the only you know wildlife they see is squirrels and and pigeons. But you know, wherever you are in your life and whatever you love about animals, you know, I think it's just so important to to be able to try and reach everybody that is curious about it, right? So including the the people with with influence. So I've learned so many lessons with Matt. Matt is, and you know, you've you've met Matt. Matt can just talk about animals till the cows come home. He can talk about reptiles and amphibians till the cows come home. And you know, uh, and he loved meeting you and Marco, like, because it's like, ah, now I have all of these facts that can go somewhere to people's.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, we when we showed up, he couldn't wait to show us the animals he had and talking about. I mean, he was just he just lit up. And I remember during the episode of their podcast that we were on, even his brothers were like, Oh, he's in heaven right now. Yeah, this is his world.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's uh and you know, there's there's so many people in the entertainment space, whether it's music, film, television, whatever it is, that are like that. And I, you know, Matt has, you know, grew up in the uh he was a child actor, right? So this has been his job since all he could remember. And, you know, uh him telling stories about wanting to be outside and you know, you know, being in on set somewhere and being like, no, I want to go out and like look for lizards or look for you know frogs and things like that kind of breaks my heart because I'm like, you know, we found those people that are our tribe with uh, you know, who love nature. But so it's now time to introduce Matt to his tribe. And you know, I I love and he speaks so fondly about like you and Marco coming to the house, and you know, he loves you guys, as I said. So, you know, there's more people out there like that that have the voice and have the eyes on their work that can, you know, really make the impact and help change people's minds. And um, the great thing about it is is that I'm gonna I'm I'm a self-confessed non-expert on things, right? I am not I'm not the leading world's leading expert on clouded leopards or you know, zookeeping or anything like that, but I can point everybody to people who are. Like uh I I as I said I loved being the great connector. I'm like, you want to know about sloths? Great. I gotta be the expert on slots over here. You want to know about Asian water buffalo? Great. I know about someone who knows loads about that. So I just love connecting people, man. That's just like the best thing in the world, is just seeing the payoff of relationships grow because of people that you've linked up. That's just great.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I love that. So let me ask you this though, because as much as we're talking about everybody else and connecting people and all of that, you are my guest. So I need to ask you, because you know, you're saying you're not the expert on things, and I get that. I totally get that. There are people that are know way more than you and I do about very specific things. We have a more of a broad brush because we're curious about so many things. You had said you've you've worked at a wide variety of zoos. I have two questions about that. But first question is what got you started? Were you so I know for me, I mean I always gravitated towards animals, and as soon as I learned you could make a living being around animals, I was like, sign me up, I'm there, I'm done.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I knew exactly what I was doing starting in middle school. I knew exactly where I was going to college, I knew exactly what I was gonna do for a living. Was that your everyone has a different sort of how they got into this line of work story. Was that yours also? Or how how did you forget that first zoo job?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great, great question. So um no, I had I had the complete opposite experience to you, and I I'm a little envious of your experience because I think, you know, I am, because I think the the the idea of knowing what you want to do when you're young is a gift, you know, having that calling, you know, and being like, this is it. Okay, this is what I'm passionate about. Let's go. Now I know where to go. So I graduated at 18 from from my school, and I I went to a really kind of a I'm from the UK, you can tell from my accent, hopefully. No, what? What?
SPEAKER_00I thought you were just from Canada or something. Yeah, just from Virginia.
SPEAKER_01But uh I'm from the UK, so and I went to a and I will say a very posh private school, right? Where the bar was very high in terms of what they expected of us because it was a um it was a school where uh the parents put in a lot of money for their kids to succeed, right? I was very fortunate enough to go to that school, and my my family could could afford to send me to that school, but with that um privilege came the expectation of if you are not at a certain level of uh job, i.e. a doctor or a lawyer or working in finance, then you have failed. You know, you have failed, you know. So the pressure was really on, and you know, the I found a lot of um comfort in sort of more of the the I want to say the left brain sort of thing. So like art drama, you know, drama and English and and history and things like that. So I actually I graduated from school and did classics, did Latin and Greeks and Romans at university. I loved ancient history. It's looking back now, I wish I could slap myself on the back of the head and say, what were you doing? Because you know, unless ancient Rome is hiring, who is gonna want a person with a Latin degree?
unknownYou know.
SPEAKER_00Last day check.
SPEAKER_01Last they check then not. If anyone knows of ancient Roma hiring, I do have those qualifications. Um, just in case zookeeping doesn't work out. And uh but you know, I was 18 and I just wanted to do what I was good at and I liked. And that didn't, you know, translate necessarily to, I think, a real-world job. But um, so I I left school and I had no idea what I was doing. And it was only until my second year of university doing classics, learning about Greeks and Romans and and everything like that, that uh I got a um a pamphlet handed to me one day, which was a uh a volunteer fair. And it was a um uh if you people were looking for volunteer work to do in their uh spare time between lectures, between, between lessons, then come along. We've had we've got a fair, there's lots of different, you know, businesses and organizations that will be coming, blah, blah, blah. And I turned up and I I found out that the um local wildlife rehabilitation center needed help. And so I was like, I had no idea what to expect, right? I was like, I don't, I've never worked with animals a day in my life. I like animals, who doesn't? Like, that's great. But you know, I'm in my early 20s at this point, and I'm like, okay, animals, yeah. I mean, how hard is it to take care of animals, right? Obviously, little did I know. But um, so I turned up and and signed up to go along and um spend some time volunteering at the the local wildlife rehabilitation center. And, you know, I tell this story a lot. So if you if you heard me talk about this on another podcast or another interview, then I apologize for this story. Um, but my first ever job they gave me was uh was they handed me a bowl of uh day-old baby chicks and some blunt scissors. And they said, okay, we need you to cut these into tiny pieces to feed the hedgehogs. And you know, I was like, that, you know, if I can get through this, I can I can get through anything. And this was day one of volunteering. First task, they said, you know, here, all right, okay, great. You signed the paperwork, great, okay, here's uh a bowl of dead baby chicks and a pair of scissors, and then just off you go. And I was like, okay, got I got through it. I fed those little hedgehogs, their bits of chick. You know, it was very satisfying to see them kind of come snuffling out and uh and eat their dead baby chick. And I was like, okay, this is actually great. I got through that, it's fine. And from there it was just sort of it snowballed, you know. I I um from there I did a I was there for a year and a half volunteering my nights every Friday night and Saturday morning, which is like peak time for doing stuff in your 20s. Like Friday night.
SPEAKER_00Going out to the club or going to the animal rehab, whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I was like bored of alcohol, I'm gonna go hang out with some hedgehogs and some badges. Um, so I would go and help the local wildlife rehab center. Um I noticed I uh when job hunting that there was a uh a zoo presenter job coming up at a uh local zoo, which was just giving talks about the animals, not necessarily zookeeping. Um, so I I applied for that and then got that, and I was doing talks of, hey guys, here are the penguins, I'm Alice, you know, everything like that. Um, from the back of that, I flew to America to um actually where I will say where I learned to be a zookeeper was the States. And I this is why I have such a big love for you guys. The States is my second home. I love Americans. I'm an American born in a British body. I'm I fully believe that. In another life, I was an American. I I love your country. It's uh it's a beautiful place. You know, people are so friendly and warm. And I I learned to be a zookeeper at Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, uh, where I spent a three-month internship. Fantastic place to learn how to zookeep. And I learned for some amazing keepers and the technology, even back then, which was like 2012, 2013, you know, was like unlike anything I've seen in the UK, because you know, American zoos have that money that zoo k UK zoos just don't. And um, so I really value my time there. And off of the back of that, I got my first, you know, from doing these internships and from you know, going out and you know, traveling by myself. I flew out all the way to the States because I was like, I want to learn how to be a zookeeper and I love America. So let me just see how that works out. And from there I got my first job at London Zoo. So a bit of a weird way to go, but um, I think it's um the the the lesson I try and give there is, you know, it's okay to not know what you want to do at 18 years old, right? Like, you know, I didn't have that, you know, which is why I'm so jealous of like you like, uh, I knew animals, great. You know, I did I didn't have that same epiphany until in in my sort of mid-20s. And um that's great. You it means you can find it at any time in your life and pivot towards it. You know, it's never, ever too late to change it up. So that's my that's my little nugget.
SPEAKER_00I appreciate that nugget very much. Right now, as a as a parent of a teenager, uh it's a discussion about because schools want you to figure out your career now.
SPEAKER_03I know.
SPEAKER_00And and I'm like, no, sweetheart, I'm sorry to tell you, I'm uh I'm the exception to the rule that I knew in middle school what I want to do with my life. So just go and explore, try different things, lean into your passions. If you change your mind later, that's fine, you know. Yeah. So yeah, I I totally recognize my situation and scenario is is completely obtuse compared to everybody else in the world. I love it. But I do love that you did eventually find this process for yourself. So I want to ask you, because I think this is a question I often get, people coming into the business of zoo keeping, coming into the world of animal care and conservation, that are looking at zoos as their their first step or their career path, maybe permanently, as far as they know. When I was at the San Diego Zoo, I had so many people just like, oh my gosh, what do I need to do to get in there? How did you get that job? And I I've worked at small zoos and big zoos, and I have my opinions about both. I want to ask you though, from your perspective and from your experience, because I feel on the zookeeper side of things, you are in the business a little more recently than I was. I stepped out of proper zookeeping in 2010 as I rolled into being. Yeah, so I it was 20, well, 2009, I was in a temporary position for spokesperson, stepping away from being in animal care. Went back to animal care for a few months, and then they pulled me back into being a permanent spokesperson in 2010. And so I did manage animal care teams at that point, but I wasn't doing the actual work. Yeah, and then I worked with the Moore Park students for a while, so I got a new perspective from the the side of not being in the business yet and having aspirations and dreams, and also perhaps a rose color tinted lens of the world at that point about what to do. And so I have my experience working with small zoos and big zoos, but I want I want to ask you your opinion because it's usually the question is usually which is better. And I know there's not it the my response to that was always it depends on what you think better means.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_00So I I want your perspective, yeah. Pluses and minuses of looking at working at starting at a big zoo versus small zoo. Pardon the interruption, dear listeners. I am going to break this interview into two parts. But getting some feedback, the most you prefer, longer interviews broken into two parts instead of a very long episode. So that's what we're doing today. And I figured that that spot where I asked that question is sort of a good transition from part one to part two. So make sure you you follow, like, subscribe, whatever it takes, whether YouTube or wherever you are, so you don't miss part two, which comes out tomorrow, first thing in the morning, I promise you. And if there's anything that Alice and I have talked about so far that you want more information on, I'll have all the links down below. As you know, we have all those show notes down there with social media, websites, everything else. So with that, we're gonna wrap this up. And again, tomorrow morning, first thing, we'll have episode two coming out for you to listen to the rest of this lovely interview with the amazing Alice. Have a good one, everybody.
