How Apparel Can Save Animals: The Animals Anonymous Story

In this engaging interview, Alexis Fitch shares her inspiring journey from zookeeper to founder of Animals Anonymous Apparel, highlighting her passion for lesser-known animals and supporting conservation efforts. Discover how her innovative approach combines education, community building, and fundraising to make a significant impact on wildlife conservation.

Alexis and Rick discuss burnout and compassion fatigue, two topics well known in the zoo keeper and conservation world. As well as how they have both continued to follow their passion while shifting out of zoo keeper work.

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Links mentioned in this episode:
Animals Anonymous Apparel website
Animals Anonymous on FB
Animals Anonymous on IG
Animals Anonymous on TK
Animals Anonymous on YouTube


Find Rick here:
ZoologyRick.com

Rick on social media:
INSTAGRAM
FACEBOOK
BLUESKY
THREADS




Podcast Music: Positive Carefree Folk Pop
Artist: Burgberg
Used with Full Music Standard Lic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And that's where the like weird designs came in is somebody could stop you in the shirt and be like, is that an animal? What is that animal? Or is that a Tasmanian devil? Like, I think I know that animal. It was just a fun way to spark a conversation. And that's the where the original name Animals Anonymous came from, is like making the anonymous animals known.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I'm Rick Schwartz, educator, public speaker, and all-around curious guy. Over the years, my curiosity and experiences, along with the many people I have worked with, revealed to me we all have a desire to feel connected to the natural world. You're listening to Animals, Nature, and You, a podcast that explores a connection between animals, nature, and humans. A podcast that celebrates learning more, following our curiosity, and reconnecting with the natural world. Welcome to another episode of Animals, Nature and You. I am so glad you're here. Today's guest is it's so cool because I really do identify with a lot of what she has been through and what she has done. We both have zookeeping backgrounds, and the zookeeping world is sort of a different community, a different culture. And so when you come from that, you have a certain understanding. We will get into that. And it's not an exclusive culture by any means. We we want you involved, we want you to be a part of it. The zookeepers, of course, their passions about wildlife, taking care of animals, conservation, connecting people to that very thing. So we will get into that. And speaking of connecting, though, I want to just jump a little tangent here real quick. I know I've mentioned in a couple episodes recently, I want to mention it again real quick. Down below in the show notes, not on YouTube, but anywhere you're listening to the podcast, the very first link is called Fan Mail. Now, if you want to get a hold of me, get in touch with me, maybe suggest an episode or someone to have a conversation with, or maybe you're like, hey, Rick, you know, you said this thing about opossums, but there's new literature now that says this about opossums. I'm totally open to learning more. So let me know. And yes, the social media stuff is still there. Uh we do a lot of communications on social media, people leaving comments or direct messaging, absolutely still an option, but I do recognize a lot of people are taking a break from social media. Some people have stopped social media altogether. So it's just another way for you to get in touch and be a part of the community here of Animals, Nature, and You. So that housekeeping set aside, I want to introduce you to someone who's doing some amazing, awesome work that is no longer directly a part of conservation and animal care, but also is directly impacting animal care and conservation. How does that work? Well, Alexis Finch is the founder of Animals Anonymous Apparel. But before she was doing this, like I mentioned, she spent years as a zookeeper completely obsessed with animals most people had never heard of. And that obsession started with the little blue penguin. Can't wait to find out more about that. As a zookeeper, Alexis loved watching people light up when they learned that something wild even existed that they had never heard of before. And as she was transitioning and leaving zookeeping, she wanted to find a way to keep doing that. So in 2015, she started Animals Anonymous Apparel, a woman-owned, family-run brand built around animals that deserve the spotlight. Her company puts obscure and lesser-known species on apparel, accessories, and stickers. And every shirt that makes a stranger ask, hey, wait, what is that? Is exactly the point. And it doesn't stop with wildlife education on shirts and stickers and apparel. No Animals Anonymous has been able to donate over $302,000 to wildlife conservation so far. And as far as I can tell, there's no plan of stopping. She's ramped up her social media and it continues to do so much more. Uh Alexis, I have to say thank you for taking the time to sit down and have this conversation with me because I know you're very busy. So really I appreciate you being here on Animals Nature and You.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Well, good, good. Uh you know, you it's funny. You and I have been connected on social media through the zoo world for a very long time, but this is really the first time you and I are having a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah, it's so weird. I feel like we we have the same goal, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah. And and with that, you know, mentioned in the the intro and going over your bio and everything, right now you're running a very, a very solid organization or company that puts out apparel, stickers, and other things that highlight these lesser known animals. But I I want to go back to something that I had mentioned to you in the email I sent initially asking if you'd be on, which is I remember somewhere in the history of our connection that it was when you were a zookeeper working with okis that you were like, There's there's no okapi apparel. And that kind of started that. But then also in the bio, it mentions little blue penguins. So can you fill us in on how this all got started?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah. So I was a zookeeper and I got pregnant and I worked with little blue penguins. And so my coworkers would call me like penguinita or penguinito. And I really wanted little blue penguin merch like for me and my baby, and I couldn't find it anywhere. So that's kind of how it started. I like made some apparel because my parents were screen printers. I gave them to co-workers and they were like, you should do an O'Copy. I have never seen an O copy on a shirt. And so I put out an Okapi and it went like more than I expected. You know, I thought this would be like a little side gig as my zookeeper job. I would never quit zookeeping. And it ended up being so big that I actually was like, maybe I should quit. You know, I have a baby on the way. This might be a thing. I didn't realize how many people knew about okis.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Well, I think honestly, in our personal world of zookeeping, that okapis are well known, of course. But yes, to your point, the there is no apparel for them. At least there there wasn't at the time, obviously. And I think the novelty within our community of zookeepers, the novelty of having something like that was just like, what? Because I remember that spread like wildfire. That was everywhere within the zoo world and and everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

It got really big. And once people realized it was like a copy they knew or they could submit pictures and it would be an animal they worked with, it just got even crazier from there. And that's like how we started our whole community.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

That's so cool. That's so cool. So that was what, 11 years ago, roughly, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah, it's been forever.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

And now, I mean, it's it feels like the you're putting out content online just about every day about anonymous animals, interesting animal facts, little little known animals. And then there's rotation of product through your your website, your store, as far as some things go in the vault, some things come out of the vault. It's just it is amazing to me how much you're doing. Is it just you and your your family, or you have a small team, or how's it all work?

SPEAKER_02 6:40

It's just I always say it's just me, but I I do have my parents and my brothers, my brother's girlfriend, and it's just us in a warehouse. But I'm designing everything, doing all the social media, recording all the videos, you know, I'm full-time doing this and adding things. I'm always adding things to my plate because I always want, you know, new designs or new merch, cool stuff. I'm always listening to what people say or what they want or what's new, you know. Plus, there's so many species that need to be on a shirt. Like it's never ending. Like, that's the reason that we do limited drops is just to get as many species as we can out.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Oh, yeah, of course. That makes complete sense. And, you know, and then also you do some seasonal stuff every now and then, too. I've seen out there over the years, and it's just so much fun. And and the fact that you are also leveraging this not just to be a business for your income, but you set aside a chunk then that goes to conservation efforts. And and for my audience that might remember early on, we did an interview with Mike Veal with Global Conservation Force, and we were discussing how someone's simple $5 expensive, fancy cup of coffee, if you donate $5 to his organization, it goes directly to conservation, has a massive impact because where he works in other parts of the world, $5 does a lot more.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And so here you are at this point, uh over $300,000 raised for conservation. That's a massive impact.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

I don't know how it got so much. Yeah. It was crazy. Once we started doing the math and stuff, we were like, wait, when did we get this high? Like we went from like $50,000 to $100,000 to $300,000 and it's still going up. It's crazy. It it's all we do fundraisers, we do conservation partners, we donate to, we do a lot of stuff that's not counted too. I donate a lot of merch to like bowling for rhinos or auctions and things, anything that I can. Like I'm always like, oh, can we just squeeze one more thing in? Can we like I'll see somebody who's collecting money for an organization, even like a charity. And I'm trying to put any amount I can into it just to, you know, help any way we can.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

That's part of also why I wanted to have this conversation with you today, because a lot of people in my audience, it's a mix of people who are already in the animal conservation world and a lot though of those who want to or just admire and want to support. And through many of the conversations I've had with different guests, you've been able to highlight how you don't necessarily have to be a botanist or a scientist or a zoologist. You don't have to be PhD'd or go out and you know work in the field. And I think you're a great example of someone who you transitioned from zookeeping, which is very impactful for conservation and working with animals, educating others, to now supporting on the financial side by also leveraging your passion, excitement, and knowledge for these species. So share with me a little bit, how was that for you? Because uh, I do know a lot of people in the zookeeping world, it is a work of passion. Our heart is tied to it, not our wallet. It doesn't pay very much. No, but we love it so much. We love our animals, there's that emotional attachment. For you, how was that transition from zookeeper to going full in on this business?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

You know, zookeeping was the dream. That's what I thought I was gonna do forever. I there was no plan B. There was no like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur. It was zookeeping. Like, I think the plan B's were like, maybe I'll be a vet. And then you're like, no, no, no, zookeeping it is. So I did all the internships, I worked the hard jobs, the jobs that didn't make very much money, um, you know, the hourly wage. And then when I quit, I was pregnant and I was kind of that panic of like, what do I, what do I do? Because I'm working, I was driving an hour, an hour and a half home, you know, working 10-hour days, working overtime, working holidays. And it halfway through my pregnancy was like just panic of, is there other options? And my mom was like, make shirts. And I was like, you know, what is that? How does that help? Like, how does that, how do I continue my passion through t-shirts? And I never thought I would be here, but it's so crazy because when I started, like the whole idea was okay, if I can get this zookeeper who loves O copies to be able to afford a $20, I even have stickers, a $4 sticker, and then take a portion of that and donate it to the conservation that's helping that animal or helping animals that they work with or love, you know, they can get back because that's what I would have wanted as a zookeeper. So it was just the idea of how can I help them help conservation? Like it's like that um pay it forward or the ripple effect, you know? And so I always say the $300,000 isn't me. It's all the people who supported me who bought the shirt, who wants to wear the shirt or advocate or the sticker or the mouse pad, whatever it is. And now they get to wear the animal they love and know that it went to helping it. So it and back to your, I missed your whole question. Hold on.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I got off on it. No, I've I I do like the tangent.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yes, I'm always on a tangent.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I'm gonna ride the tangent a little bit. I just want to point out you said it it's not you, it it's everybody, but it it is, it is still you. You're funneling this, yeah. You're funneling this interest in this finance to so you can eat and your family can eat, of course, important, but then you're also making sure a good chunk of that goes to supporting that conservation you're so passionate about. And so going back then to the original root of the question, which was how was it for you making that transition in the sense of you and you kind of answered it. It was kind of scary, you weren't sure what you're gonna do. How can how can shirts make this transition for me? But now that you're on the side of it, 10, 11 years later, looking back, what's it been like for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Well, I so it's been 10 years, but then I went back part-time and then I got pregnant again. And that's when I was like, okay, this is serious, you know, Animals Anonymous is growing. I'm gonna have another kid, and now I have a total of four. Um, so it just got more and more serious of like, you know, I have to put food on the table. I have to keep doing this. And I I love going to work every day and doing my passion, but it took probably 10 years just recently to admit that I'll probably never be a zookeeper anymore. And and just that, like letting go of that dream or that idea of what my life was supposed to look like. It took a really long time to get over it. Even I I don't know how to explain. Like, um, you know, a lot of people reach out to me and they say they love my story because, you know, they're thinking about quitting or they don't know if they can keep doing it. And it's given them ideas to like move past something other than zookeeping, like hope that there is more out there than zookeeping. And I've met a lot of people who work in conservation, who are no longer zookeepers anymore, who started that way, or who've moved into um owning their own businesses and finding ways to help or or volunteering on the side. It's like it's not, it's not the end of the world, even though it sometimes feels like that because you're so tied to the animals, like the whole connection is the animals. And I feel like I'm still tied to it and I'm so lucky for that. But I love the people who love the animals. Like I've learned to just fall in love with the world of zookeepers and wildlife conservationists and people out there on the ground doing the field work or doing the research. Like the more I research and learn about animals, the more I like and like these look what these people are doing, and they don't take any credit for it. You know, they're so humble because they love it so much. They love to learn about the animals. That it's their passion.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, yeah. And that takes me right into what I wanted to go on next perfectly. So thank you for setting up that segue.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Did it on purpose?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

But you great job, great job. When it comes to your constant, constant, constant feed of great facts and information you have on social media. Has there been any particular species that you're like just your mind was completely blown? Because I know for myself, I've worked with a lot of different species, birds, mammals, reptiles. There are some out there that are like, well, that's interesting. I didn't know that fact. Other ones it's like, well, that makes sense because this species is that way. But every now and then you come across one where it's just like mind blown. Has that happened to you? And if so, what species?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

All the time, oh, all the time. I'm literally like, I'm I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know an orca was a dolphin, like because I just didn't work around, you know, aquatic species that often. And there's so many. Like the more research I get into it, the more research papers I read, or like, you know, I get lost in the IUCN website all the time. I'll just find myself stuck in there, especially finding animals that are endangered. Like, I'm like, wait, what? Or there's only like, you know, less than a hundred left. You're like, how? And what people are doing to help is even crazier. You're like, who are these people? How are they getting this done? You know, like I do a lot in a day. I can't imagine what they're doing in a day.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Aaron Powell It's so true. You know, you do come across those species where there's, you know, less than a hundred and you and you see there's people still scrapping trying to make sure that there's they they uh they do okay. In fact, uh there'll be an episode coming up for my audience where we where I talked to somebody about wolves and we mentioned the red wolf and how much their numbers have dropped to in in the 20s and and how challenging that is. And it we in that discussion reflected back to the condor, how there were California Condor specifically, there were just over 20 left in the population, how we do see species get down that far, and sometimes it gets worse and sometimes it gets better, but people are always trying. And uh it's always so fascinating to to see that and uh and and know that that's happening.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

They're just so passionate, like there's just passionate people, they're like focus, put all their focus, all their energy into one animal, and it's so cool to see. Like, I I feel like my focus is everywhere, and I love seeing when one person has like a special interest in this one animal, and they get to like I've I've met a lot of people. I've been doing the anonymous animal videos lately, and I've been running into people who are like specialists and things, and I'm like, wait, tell me all the things you know because you know more than I can even find out, you know, the the the connections they have and things is insane.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, yeah. They the the knowledge that they have when they're specialized like that is just like, wait a minute, I need to I need to peel back the layers of your brain.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

I'm so jealous. I'm like, how did you get into that? How did you, you know, but I couldn't just stay in just one. I feel like I have so many favorites and I love learning new things. I think that's my favorite part. It's kind of how I started um educating was I I loved when I was at the zoo and people would be like, uh, oh, look at the baby penguins. And I'm like, no, they're little blue penguins or fairy penguins. Like, this is their full size. Why are they outside in Texas? You know, isn't it so hot? And I was like, no, they're tropical penguins. And I I just loved educating so much that I was like, how can we keep doing that? And that's where the like weird designs came in is somebody could stop you in the shirt and be like, is that an animal? What is that animal? Or is that, you know, is that a Tasmanian devil? Like, I think I know that animal. It was just a fun way to spark a conversation. And that's the where the original name Animals Anonymous came from, is like making the anonymous animals known. Even the ones that are maybe more obvious to us, but not obvious to the general public.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Right. And I think that's something that that the zoo world, as far as those working in the zookeeper experience, we sometimes forget that even though there are times we're like, oh, I didn't even know that animal existed. Or like you said, it didn't know that that orcas were dolphins essentially because that's not where you work, not part of your bubble. But we do know a lot about those in our immediate space. So we sometimes forget that the general public walking by looks at a small penguin and says, Oh, it must be a baby. Or I had in my my experience, I worked with an ocelite quite a bit. Everyone's like, Oh, it's a baby jaguar. It's like, oh, he's a full-grown boy.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

It's crazy. Everything that's cute and little is automatically a baby of something.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Right, right. But I was gonna say is that I really love that about the position you take on your website and you talk about it sometimes too, is that wearing your apparel gives the person wearing it the opportunity to educate people because someone's gonna say, What is that? Or is that supposed to be a and it brings it beyond that bubble of I'm proud to know an ocopy, I work with an a copy, but now I get to educate people about or whatever the species might be.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Well, and it's become like the unofficial zoo uniform. So they're like, Oh my God, I see you wearing that animal and I know what that animal is. Like, let's be friends. So it's all about connection, you know. I and I love that, especially because us as animal people, I think that's the hardest part is um being people people, you know, trying to find friends and trying to connect in this world and you know, share our special interests in animals. This really helps open that door. I know it's helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

So yeah, that's the other side of it too, right? As zoo keepers, we tend to be a little bit isolated working in our corner of the zoo. I know when I first started the San Diego Zoo, my area was literally one of the corners, and I I would my access gate in onto the property was also in that corner. So I would come and go to work, and I for like years, I didn't know hardly anybody there outside of my team because I never really had to walk through the facility. So yeah, you get you get into your area, you do your thing, and uh I love it.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Spend all your time with the animals. Of course, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Well, I this is it too. A lot of honor, if we're being honest, a lot of new people, a lot of keepers don't really like other people too much. They'd rather just be with their animals. I get that. I'm right there with you.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

But again, to your Yeah, but then us as humans, we get so lonely that you're like, wait, I want to find more people like me who are, you know, have the same passions and the same connections.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah. And and you're like you said, your your uh your apparel, your shirts and sweaters or sweatshirts are are like the unofficial uniform where we say, Oh, we can find each other in the wild. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

That's my favorite part. We go like decked out to the zoo every every year.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

So let me ask you this. We covered the little blue penguin, we covered the Okapi, clearly those that help spark this passion, this excitement. You do a lot of research, looking up different species, putting new lines out there as far as your clothing goes. Is there a particular species that you've come across that in your researching and looking up? And you did say there's a lot that have surprised you, but is there a particular one that's just kind of stuck with you after you've gone through that process of diving into IUCN or hearing something from another keeper or whatever it might be that has now sort of become like, oh, this is another one of my favorites that I shall covet off to the side as mine.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

I think that's so hard because I have so many favorites. I'm that one person that's like, oh, I have favorite animals I've worked with for sure. Um, like the three-toed sloth. I was so lucky to work with them and black and white ruffle murs stole my heart. Um, but what has stood out? Sand cats are a big one. I think yeah, because I mean something so cute and little, and then like we have cats as pets, you know, and to see this thing that looks like a pet and it's definitely not like I think I think the small cats of the world, the fishing cats, the sand cats, always blow my mind. Uh they're so and people are so diehard fans. Like when you find somebody who knows what those are, they are obsessed, they're in love with them. And I just love to see I love to see that passion in people when they see it.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

So it's funny you should mention that because I had the the fortune of being around sand cats and other small cat species throughout my career, but just as of Gosh, like last year, I think I stumbled across a Scottish wildcat Instagram that they're doing reintroduction. They've been doing reintroductions. And I was like, I couldn't wrap my head around for some reason that there's very specific wildcat species in Scotland that they're trying to rebuild that population. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm obsessed for the same reason you mentioned the sand cat. It's like I have a house cat, but this looks like a really how did I not know?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Like, as the person I am, how do I not know about these? And like when they sneak up on you, it's like you like dive in. You're like, I'm so obsessed. I need to know everything. Who knows who's worked with them? You know, it's um we did a um shirt over the black footed cat and we did it, it was called we did a pack for it and it was called Killer Kitty. But when we spoke to the people who run the conservation and everything, um, the people in charge, I can't remember his name off the top of my head. This was a few years ago. Um, but they were like, we actually try to refrain from using the name Killer Kitty because they um the people who live around them are actually nervous around them because they're yeah, they're such good hunters that they started to um I don't know if scare is the word, but the name kind of like freaked people out and they didn't want them near. Yeah. And so they were trying to go with I don't even remember what we went with after that. I don't remember, but it was just so cool to like see somebody who puts all their time and effort and then to like come back because like killer kitty is just what everybody calls them. I mean, they have the highest kill rate, 60%. Yeah. But they only eat like small things, mice, birds, and stuff like that. So it isn't fair, you know, something bigger like a tiger, you know, you wouldn't want to give them the name Killer Kitty. Um, and so it was so cool to go back and forth with them and see what they had to say and and then adjust our facts and things. It's I love that. I don't know why. It's just so fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

It's a great, but it's it's a great reminder for those in the zookeeper world versus conservation world, right? In the sense that uh, you know, in in so anyone listening who's not part of the zookeeper realm that you and I are usually in, the black footed cat is known as a killer kitty. It is a small, it's smaller than a house cat, at least the ones I have seen. They look harmless and adorable, and immediately you go, oh, I want one. Yes. And the keeper will always inevitably say, no, you don't. These guys are killers. They're not, they've got nothing but an attitude. And so it's funny from the keeper side where we try to convince people, no, you don't want this as a pet. They are an aggressive animal, they are killers. But it makes sense on the conservation side when you don't want people who are sharing habitat with them to fear them or dislike them. Yeah. You don't want to use that term killer.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Because then they start trapping or poisoning or, you know, trying to get them away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

It's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah. So you are over a decade into this with Animals Anonymous Apparel. And I'll make sure that we have your website on all the show notes and everything else, because I want people to check it out. You know, they're the A, they'll probably find an animal they never heard of, B, they will probably find something they want to purchase and therefore it supports conservation. But I want to ask you now, this far into it, you've got your family going, you've clearly hit your stride with this because you are all over social media. You're doing such incredible work. You're well known around the the different ASAC chapters and zoo community. What do you see for the next 10 years? Are you going to keep keep hitting it as hard as you're hitting it? Are you going to expand this out further? What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

You know, I I I don't have a plan. I have no plan. Um, I've and I that's how I've always done Animals Anonymous is just to just keep moving forward. I think that that was from like leaving the zoo world. It was like, okay, just keep going. Just keep moving forward. Don't feel sad about it. You know, whatever you're doing is great. And then, you know, it's like the last 10 years, I kind of like woke up and was like, oh my God, I love what I do. I'm having so much fun. I'm not even thinking about going back to the zoo world, but I love, I guess I'm just so lucky I get to be a part of it still. I get to, you know, still be with the people, still go to the zoos and um and you know, get special treatment sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I'm I'm sure you do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Just just getting to see the animals up close and things is just so cool, especially not being a zoo keeper anymore. Um, but for the next 10 years, I mean, to me, I don't want my business to be so huge it becomes like, you know, one of those big brands that I'm not running. I think the most important part of it is that I get to run it. Like it's a part of me. It's my designs, it's how we print. You know, my I'm out there with my brother adjusting screens and he's, you know, telling me, does this look okay? You know, what color should we put on this? And it's just, it's so cool to get to work. My mom's desk is right across from mine, and my dad's embroidering hoodies and things for me. And um, it it's so cool. I I wouldn't want it to change too much, but at the same time, like to grow and to donate more and do more. Like I have dreams of being, you know, sponsors for big events and helping out animals more. Like the more I can help animals, the the more I'm so excited to grow, just for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

It's not, it's it's such a zookeeper mindset. You know, it I don't know what it is about us where it's like you just put your head down and do. And so, you know, you you hear someone in a business say, Well, I don't really have a plan, I'm just doing. And it seems to go against what our our business overlords think we should do, but it I I get it. I so get it. It's it's part of that. We show up every day, we do what needs to be done. Right. We do what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

You never know what you're gonna get with an animal. Like you don't know what attitude, you don't know, you know, health or anything. You're just doing your best, you know. And I feel like I've just carried that, I've carried a lot of the things I've learned from zookeeping with me on that part.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Yeah. That's interesting. I never really thought about that for about myself until you just said it. I was like, well, that's kind of how I'm doing things, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

You're just showing up and doing it. As a business owner, I feel crazy half the time because I'm just winging it and I'm like, you know, we'll make it, you know, we've had high highs and really low lows. You know, sometimes we don't have sales at all. And it's like you just, you just wing it, like you just keep moving forward, you know, whatever. And then to listen to people too. I think that's the biggest one is like I put a lot of credit. I'm really grateful for everyone who follows me and buys from me because I wouldn't be able to do what I do if I didn't have the support that I have. Like I have my pack, is what I call them. And there's been people who have been part of it since 2015. And it's crazy to know that they've followed along with me. You know, they've seen me have kids, they've seen the business change. We've changed the logo twice, you know. And those were just out of like the idea of like just so random. I was like, you know, this is outdated. We need to change. The times are changing. Because when I first started Animals Anonymous, I started the business. Hustle culture, boss babe culture was huge. It was work 24-7, grind as hard as you can. You're not gonna make it if you don't just keep showing up. And I did it, you know, I did it. I I had a baby on a Wednesday and I went to work on a Monday. You know, I was like, this is what you do.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah, I'll just take care of him on the side. He's fine. So, but it's just you just, I guess I'm I'm very grateful that that hustle culture is gone. But I still feel like as a business owner and um somebody who wants to educate, we're always still pushing forward. And, you know, putting out social media now is a big one. You have to put it out daily, you know, have to keep posting.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Well, and and part of that I think plays into what a lot of us, and by us, I mean those of us in ecology, conservation, you know, naturalists, zookeepers, all of us, we see the challenges that are out there. We see the the immense amount of work that needs to be done to secure safety for these species, to take care of these animals, to help educate others. And so I think that that knowledge of how much it needs to be done is also part of that driver. It's like, well, I'm I'm still going to do this. I don't care how tired I am, right? Because it needs to be done. It's a work of passion, much like zookeeping. It we do we tend to just have that built in us, the sense of urgency that this needs to be done no matter what. Yeah. Because lives depend upon it. And not to sound overly dramatic, but in a sense, it's like compassion. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

I think you just keep carrying it with you, even when you're not caring for the animals. It's like you're caring with you're caring for them from a distance, of like we have to educate people about these animals or they will disappear.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah. Ooh, I like that. That's very well said. Very well said.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

What's my last line? Together we're making the anonymous animals known because you can't protect what you don't know exists, and knowing is where conservation begins.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah, it's so true. If if even just knowing the animal is helping the animal, like just knowing its name, telling people about it, learning one fact, you know, just sharing, that is that's a lot. That's a huge step.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah. I was talking to John Rossi from Ross Safari podcast, and I asked him about his, you know, we're talking about his different favorite animals, how we got into them and all that. And one story that he had, right exactly what you said. He said he'd never even heard of tree kangaroos before. And then there was an online quiz about what animal are you. He ended up being a tree kangaroo. He's like, This is weird. What is this? And now he's on the SAFE program committee, the SAFE Tree Kangaroo committee, because of that one little online quiz. Because he didn't know about it. And now he then he did know about it, then he got curious about it. So to your point, to know about them can sometimes be enough, but it also then can spark that curiosity, that excitement, that joy in someone to carry it to the next step. And the impact in that ripple effect goes so much further. So, you know, good for you for putting in the time on your social media for those facts.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

So crazy that you brought him up too, because we're working on a tree kangaroo fundraiser right now for tree kangaroo day.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

See, yeah, and I actually worked with tree kangaroos and it was a total accident. It's when I went back part-time, they stuck me in with the tree roos, and I got to learn and be with them and amazing, amazing creatures. Yeah, right? So many crazy facts about them. Yeah, yeah. And then I actually in that rotation, I got to work with um shoe bell storks and palm cockatoos and things. And you're just like, it's so crazy because I had worked in the same facility, but never with them. And it's like once you get a chance to be up close or learn weird things about them, you just have that different spark towards them, and you want to know more and you want to fight for them.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Right. And get to know their personalities too. That's where started with bentrong for me, the very first one I worked with, our personalities just meshed, and now it's like every bent rong I see, like, oh, that's my best friend.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

You know obsessed. I I worked with two of them, obsessed. One was grouchy and one was the sweetest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

So I love them. Well, I have to say, I I love, I love everything about your story, and I think it's an important story to share. And not just that the work you're doing is raising funds and awareness, but just the idea that as our lives change, we don't have to step away from our passion. And I want to go back to what you had said at the beginning, in that in that sense of the idea of having to come to terms with stepping away from zookeeping. I think part of what challenges a lot of us when we are faced with that, whether it is because our family life has changed, there's health issues, or you just hit burnout, which a lot of keepers and conservationists do, there's that sense of identity we have, of who we are and and what we do and why we do it and that passion that's in us. And I love your story because it also shares with others that might be looking at that time of transition from a passion that it doesn't mean they can no longer pursue that passion. They just might pursue it differently. And and so I want to ask you, are there any words of wisdom you would share with somebody who says, Hey, look, I'm I think I'm getting to the point in my life where I need to step away from zookeeping? It looks like you did it somewhat gracefully. What would you offer up as words of wisdom?

SPEAKER_02 34:03

I get that email a lot. And one thing I love to tell them is zookeeping is not who you are. Why did you want to get into zookeeping? Like, what sparked that? What passion started it? You know, because when I look back, what sparked it for me was Zabumafu, the Krap brother, Steve Irvine. I loved watching them on TV and I thought that's who I want to be. And my only option was zookeeping. And I went full force and then I thought, I'm a zookeeper, this is who I am. And now when I look back, I'm like, no, wait, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to educate, I wanted to talk to the world about it. And it's taken me 11 years to even realize that. Like when I started Animals Anonymous, I never thought I would be an educator. So I the advice I always give people is if you're burnt out or you're thinking about quitting, dive into your passion. Find that part of you. Why did you start in the first place? What are you passionate about while you're doing it? Like, even if like the cleaning is your passion or the horticulture is your passion, like start figuring out what it is you're good at, what you love about it, instead of just the idea. Sometimes we just say zookeeping, you know? Like we just label it as I'm a keeper, I'm a zookeeper. And I feel like people are so much more than that. You're so much more than a job title. You're your passion. You're, you know, who were you when you were little? Like what ignited that? There's so many ways you can go and explore. And if you're if you're starting to burn out, it's only gonna get worse, you know. May and maybe something even try um switching jobs within the field, even. But I know a lot of people, there's not a lot of open opportunity, so that's a hard one. You know, it's a hard job to get into. It's it is it's a hard job to get into, it's low pay. And I I was asked the other day, you know, why do people, why do they pay zookeepers so low? And I didn't I don't have an answer. I don't know. I honestly have no idea why they're paid. The only thing I could come up with is because all the money goes into the animals, you know, they're so expensive. They are not a you know, they're not cheap, all the food. I mean, I I watched all the food come in when I worked and how much money that was and the big trucks and the horticulture that came in, you know. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah, I think it's you know, it's a combination of things that that caused that. And I think a lot of it has to do with the history of zookeeping too, in the sense of before it was basic labor. You know, back when I was first getting started in the early 90s, things like enrichment and understanding behavior and applying behavior sciences was just getting started. Prior to that, in the 80s, 70s, and even before, obviously, zookeeping was labor. You're just scooping poop, filling water bowls, throwing food, and you and you move on to the next thing. And and now it's such a skilled, uh ed highly educated group of people, but unfortunately, I think the concept of what a zookeeper is to the general public and how it should all work is still kind of lowbrow, if you will, and just uh a laborer, if you will. And not that there's anything wrong with that so much as our current times. Uh you and I both know the requirement to even find that job, you've got to have a bachelor's degree, you've got to have experience already, you've got to know the scientific stuff and the veterin stuff and the nutrition stuff and everything.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Well, it's like the experience you need it is free, like you have to do all this free labor and you you're lucky because then you have to have a job on the side, or you know, it's it's it's almost impossible. You know, you have to be lucky enough to be able to do it all.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, it's true. Well, I I appreciate your time so much and covering everything we covered. Just shout out real quick. What are what are the different ways people can find you? Of course, I'll put everything in the show notes, all the links and everything else. But you have Instagram, I know that because I follow you there. You're on Facebook, I follow you there. Uh, you've got your website, which is awesome. I I even if you aren't looking to buy, this is for my audience, if you're not looking to buy a shirt or any apparel, still go check out this website. She's got so much cool stuff going on. And if there's anybody in your life who might like a fun little animal gift or something that they may never even heard of before, you gotta go check out the website because you're gonna find something pretty cool there, even something for yourself, probably. But anyhow, go ahead. Where can everyone find you?

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Um, so you can find me at AnimalsAnonymousApparel.com is my main website. But we also have a Facebook group, the pack, and that's where we're doing like lots of updates. That's kind of where all the ideas start, the pictures and everything like that. So that's really fun to be a part of. But I am everywhere. I'm on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, um, Blue Sky, I mean you name it. I'm everywhere. Um, and I have a link tree too, so that's helpful. It has all the links and everything. Um, but every month we drop new designs on the website. So usually everything disappears besides a few staples that stay around that have just been around forever, and a whole new set comes, and that way we can feature more animals. We also don't just do the anonymous animals. Occasionally there's some cheetahs and elephants and your favorites, tigers and things like that, because they still need, you know, awareness and conservation of money and everything like that. Um, but they're also people's favorites. So they're a staple and they they pop up every now and then.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

So excellent. Excellent. Well, this has been a great conversation. And I I do want to invite you to let me know if anything new or exciting happens or you have anything that's that's fun that you want to tell people about, let me know. We'll get you back on the podcast because it's always fun to to talk with someone who's kind of walked a similar path, but also has their own unique path. And I do appreciate you very much for making yourself available for others in the zoo care world, animal care world, and all of that to go, hey, how does that transition work? Or, you know, whatever it might be. Because I think it's it's really a a good idea that we all recognize, and I love the way you said it too, that uh zookeeping is not your identity. Who were you before you got into it and and kind of chase that back down because it's so true. It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Your passions.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah. Well, thanks again for joining me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed being on here and chatting with you and talking about animals, my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

And of course, thank you, dear listeners. I appreciate you joining me on this curious odyssey known as Animals, Nature and You. And yes, as we mentioned in the interview, if there's any links you're looking for, check out for the show notes, whether it's on YouTube or anywhere you're listening to your podcast. Links will be down below, whether it's Alexis' website, Animals Anonymous, or their social media that she's running. She does so much. It's insane how much she's constantly putting out there, but it's so good. So you have to check it out. If you want to get a hold of me, zoologyrick.com is my website. All my social media links are down below, also. And don't forget, if you haven't already, you gotta subscribe, follow this podcast, make sure you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes we have. A lot of great guests as today, awesome, awesome people doing awesome work. And then, of course, too, you know, there's a 10-minute Tuesdays, which, yes, I know they run a little over 10 minutes, but fun little facts that are reflection back to a previous episode or something we talked about that might need a little more information. Now, I do want to leave you with this. I definitely want to make sure you know zookeeping is a tough line of work. It is a work of passion, as many works of passion can be trying on you because you constantly want to put into it. If you are looking to get into zookeeping, I don't want the conversation today to sway you thinking maybe it's not for you. It is a wonderful career. It is challenging though, as many careers are. Go at it with an open mind and an open heart, and also recognize that sometimes people do get burnt out. So perhaps there's something you can do ahead of time while you start the process of getting into zookeeping to get good habits for taking care of yourself and making sure you don't hit that point. Last but not least, I want to wrap it up with a conservation message that I found on her website, on Alexis's website for Animals Anonymous. She had this great little sort of set of bullet points. Every species has a story. Conservation is for everyone. Community is how change happens. This is an ongoing thread. If you've been listening for a while, or if you're new here and you go back and listen to past episodes, people I've interviewed that are naturalists, that are directors of conservation for a large organization, to people who are just doing things on their own on the side. So, or someone like uh, gosh, you know, Mike Veel, who's mentioned in this episode, doing boots on the ground conservation work in other countries. Conservation happens because of community. So, like that little bullet point from her website, community is how change happens. We do it together. We work together, we support each other. Conservation is for everyone. I know in a world as big and crazy as ours, there are times where it feels like perhaps we have to be at a certain level of uh education or job title or position to be able to make a difference. Conservation is for everyone. Anybody can make a difference in doing anything, anytime, anywhere. And every species definitely has a story. Just go to her social media. There's so many cool facts of new and interesting animals, and of course, she does put it on her website for these different things. But like I said during the interview, it's a great gift idea. So with that, I'm going to wrap it up. I want to remind you too, fan mail is the thing we're doing now, too. You can reach out to me by the little fan mail button. Not on YouTube yet, I'm sorry, but anywhere you're listening to your podcast, it should be there. You can send a text from voicemail, stay in touch that way, or just stay in touch on social media. All right, it's time to wrap this up. Get this edited, send it out to you. Have a good one, everybody.